Amiga PCs on the way....

[takemehomegrandma]

Wow!!!

This is very exciting news!

I'd never thought I'd ever see a *new* Commodore Amiga again! Wow, Super Cool! I will buy it for sure!

Maybe someone could release a renamed version of AROS for this one, like "TOS" (no, dear people, not "Terms Of Service" this time , but simply The Operating System! (inspired by Atari, for reasons explained in the next sentence )). Back in the Amiga days, The OS was something you would take for granted anyway, You bought the Commodore Amiga, and The OS was bundled "in the background" with every machine ever sold! See what I mean? So when I buy a *new* Commodore Amiga, I'd be *perfectly happy* to use The Operating System it's bundled with!

[takemehomegrandma]

But thinking about this, there might be a bit of revenge about this.

Hyperion kept on selling OS4 for other platforms etc until the court case was over.

Yes, that's very probable.

A good, solid deal is one where *both* parties walk away *smiling* after signing the contract.

The Hyperion "settlement" was a robbery. A judicial rape, performed by lawyers (or wannabe such). The only reason Hyperion "won" (which they didn't, not really), was because Amiga Inc completely lacked the means to defend themselves after a certain point. Amiga was defenseless at the end, she was lying on the ground, and Hyperion took what they wanted. That's my views of it, and your assumption above about "revenge" goes perfectly in line with that. Hyperion's actions could very well have made it quite personal to the owners of Amiga IP...

Im guessing that Commode USA and Amiga INC will continue until things are cleared up.

Nothing needs being "cleared up" IMO.

Hyperion has a license *to use* some Amiga trade marks under certain conditions (some exclusive). They don't *own* jack shit however (pardon my "French").

Nowhere in the "settlement" is it stated that Amiga must roll over and die.

I would be surprisde if Hyperion have got any grounds to stop this

I think it's quite clear they don't...

[takemehomegrandma]

I been buying PCs for years.  Next one will have the Commodore logo on it!

Yeah! Same here!

It will be a Commodore Amiga!

[takemehomegrandma]

No, it will be a PC with a sticker on it.

1) Well, at least it will be a *real* x86 PC this time, instead of some *equally* "PC-ish" computer, but built from overpriced and much poorer PPC in extremely tiny series, and at at least it will be a Commodore Amiga!

2) This isn't exactly the first company being in "the sticker business" around here, but this is the first one about to offer a real Commodore Amiga sticker! And with real, usable HW to go with it as well, probably at a price everyone can afford!

Probably a crappy PC at that.

Well, if that is what "small", "lean" and "low cost" means to you (judging from what CommodoreUSA has in their portfolio today, but you know, x86 scales quite far upwards if you want!

[takemehomegrandma]

It's puzzling but looking at their online store, I'm not seeing any Visable Commodore branding  on their products.

Anyone with pics of their machines showing the commodore logo?

I have no idea, but there are lots of cool brands on their site, which I think explains their idea and upcoming offerings quite well!

Here they are, linked directly from the CommodoreUSA Web Page:









...

Here is a thought:

Maybe 2011 will be the year of Amiga?

Yes?

[takemehomegrandma]

@ Piru

OK, this is *my* take on this:

AFAIK, CommodoreUSA *hasn't bought* any IP, they have *licensed* the rights to use of it!

Amiga Inc is of course completely free to license to any third party any and all of it's IP, with few exceptions; which are the OS3.x source/object code/yadayada (that CommodoreUSA doesn't need or want anyway), the words "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "AmigaOne" and "Amiga One". Those things are exclusively licensed to Hyperion (who doesn't own them either, despite what many people seems to think. They simply have an exclusive and very extensive license to *use* them for the duration of the agreement). Hyperion has also a license for the Boing Ball, but that one is *not* exclusive, so Amiga Inc is perfectly free to allow anyone else to use that.

And what did they license?

Apparently, Amiga Inc has licensed the trade mark word "Amiga" to CommodoreUSA for use in their "AIO" computers, which is *perfectly fine* according to the "settlement" Hyperion made with Amiga Inc, as long as they will not use the marks exclusively licensed to Hyperion. Which they of course won't do. The name "Amiga" is the only thing CommodoreUSA has licensed AFAIK. Well that, and most certainly some symbols like the graphical representation of the word "Amiga", boing ball, and check mark seen on CommodoreUSA's web site.

Amiga Inc has *not* licensed AROS to CommodoreUSA. They can't do that, since they obviously don't own it or control it in any way.

If CommodoreUSA or anyone else wants to use AROS to whatever purpose for whatever reason, they are perfectly free to do so. It's completely free, and open source. I'm looking forward to the day I can use AROS on my Genesi Efika MX Smartbook myself. Neither Amiga Inc, nor Hyperion, owns or controls AROS. It's independent, and evidently it was here long before both Amiga Inc and Hyperion arrived to make a mess out of Amiga.

I'd say Ben Herman's ramblings of "legal actions" are totally bogus. From what is publicly known, I completely fail to see how Hyperion could possibly manage to sue neither Amiga Inc nor CommodoreUSA for this trade mark license agreement.

I'd say that comment was merely a mindless knee-jerk reaction from the notorious "Legal Clerc"!

Cheers!

[takemehomegrandma]

You are probably just trying to nitpick me, but...
Hyperion suing anyone regarding this agreement affects CommodoreUSA does it not?
I couldn't care less who the actual defendants are, as long as the result is the same.

result = preventing further pollution of the Amiga name

The insinuation that Hyperion would own the Amiga name, or have anything whatsoever to say about it, is simply hilarious. Where on earth does this misconception come from?

Had Amiga Inc tried to license out any of the four words "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "AmigaOne", "Amiga One", then I would understand your stance, since Hyperion could easily point to their own contract they have with Amiga Inc that stipulates that those particular words (but nothing else) are to be considered for *exclusive use* by Hyperion, for the duration of the agreement.

But as it is now? Nope! Except for those four exceptions I quoted above, Amiga Inc is completely free to use *their own* trade marks the way they see fit!

Look at the Hyperion/Amiga Inc agreement; I think "Definition G" and "Grant 1c" would be the most relevant parts in this case...

[takemehomegrandma]

You really know how to defame legal clerks around the world, don't ya.

"I am not defaming anybody's character, I have not even identified a specific person." (Benjamin Hermans)

[takemehomegrandma]

Let's get this right. A "Trademark" is just that. A way of marking your goods for the purpose of trade. You cannot "Trademark" a word that exists in a real language as this is considered a generic mark. Otherwise I would Trademark the word "Cleaner" and sue the arse off of thousands of companies. What you can trademark is the graphical representation of that word, and, to a lesser extent, the fair use of that word. It could be argued that the word "Amiga" on a computer could be what is trademarked.

I think it has never been any disputes and questions whatsoever about Commodore's, Escom's, Gateway's and Amiga Inc's registered trademark "Amiga". It would be "funny" to try to make an "issue" of that now...? I mean, even Hyperion has acknowledged and helped established this through their deal with Amiga Inc.

However, under "Fair usage" Hyperion could arque that the fair usage of the AmigaOS trademark (please hold in mind the graphical representation of that mark) is infringed by the Amiga trademark (written in the same graphical style) on another computer (made by say, commodoreUS)

Hyperion does *not* have a license for the use of the mark "Amiga". Their license explicitly grants them the right to use the four marks "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "AmigaONE", "Amiga ONE". See the difference? The four latter marks are for exclusive use by Hyperion. Nothing more, nothing less. As long as Amiga Inc (or anyone else) stays clear from those, everything is perfectly fine. (And this goes the other way around as well, as Hyperion had better stay away from "Amiga").

I can't see no mention in the contract (but maybe I missed it? If so, please point me to the right spot!) of:
1) Hyperion would even have been granted a right to use any specific and particular graphical representation of any trademark (except for "the Boing Ball", which is explicitly not exclusive)
2) That this granted right (if it's even there, which I think not) should in any way be exclusive to Hyperion

In fact, it's even specifically pointed out, for the sake of clarity (just to avoid situations like the one you try to paint to us), in the Hyperion/Amiga Inc agreement, that the Amiga Parties (Amiga Inc, ltec, Amino collectively, as defined per the topmost paragraph of the deal) are indeed the ones with the right to the "Amiga Mark" (as defined in Definitions C: "any mark owned and/or registered or licensed by or to the Amiga Parties containing the word "Amiga" whether in stylized form (figurative mark) or otherwise"), and that the Amiga Parties have the right to continue to use "the mark 'AMIGA' alone or in conjunction with other words, so long as 'OS' or 'One' does not directly follow the word 'AMIGA'." (as defined in Grant 1c).

There is no ground for confusion, everything is perfectly clear; Amiga Inc has the rights to the Amiga trade mark, including any "stylized form" it may be pictured in. Hyperion has the rights to use the "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "AmigaONE", "Amiga ONE" marks, in no particular stylized form (as far as I can see), and as long as Amiga Inc, Commodore and anyone else stays clear of those four marks, Hyperion does not have any grounds whatsoever for "legal actions".

Having said that it's all pancakes to me, my interest is in Natami and SAM.

Well, Natami I can understand, but Sam? Does it even have a Amiga sticker?

[takemehomegrandma]

@ Redrumloa:

"Commodore USA, LLC world headquarters. "

Which is somebody's house in the middle of a sub-division.  Nice swimming pool.  

Which is hardly anything unique in the context. Amiga Inc, Acube, A-EON, possibly Hyperion, Genesi, etc, are all companies with no needs for big office buildings. They can all have their "world head quarter" in their laptop and cell phone, and do just fine...

[takemehomegrandma]

And it is local to me, I know the area well. I am contemplating taking a picture of Commodore USA, LLC's world's headquarters so the world may know.

Now don't turn into a stalker, that's just ugly. If you are close to him, why don't you call him, arrange for a meeting at some local café, and do a little interview?

[takemehomegrandma]

I never stated that Hyperion had a license for the use of the mark "Amiga". Check my post.

OK, I apologize, but lots of people in the debate seems to believe otherwise. And many also seems to think that Hyperion *own* the trademark (which they of course never did). Let's just say the clarification was for them!

The mark I mentioned for Hyperion was "AmigaOS", so yes, I know the difference. As for everything being fine if A Inc avoid the exclusive Hyperion TM's, well that's not exactly true. Issues can arise from similar marks eg. if I marked a car "Fyord" in Fords graphical style, I could get sued. I'm not saying this would happen, I was just pointing out that it could.

If the Ford company is the one owning the Ford brand, they can consider this brand to be a kind of Intellectual Property. The base logic in the free world is that anyone is free to do whatever they want with their property (with lots of exceptions of course ). So let's say they sub-license a variation of the mark, "Ford SNOW", to a snow mobile manufacturer for the explicit use on snow mobiles only.

The company behind "Ford SNOW" even acknowledge in the contract that the Ford company still owns the "Ford" mark, and are free to use it, as long as they aren't using it for branding snow mobiles.

Then they would have no grounds whatsoever for a law suit if the Ford company makes another license deal, but this time "Ford BOAT" for use explicitly to market boats.

ALL Trademarks are specific graphical representations first and foremost.

Not true. Sure, a trademark *can* be a graphical image. Like a logotype, for instance. It can also be a color, a sound, a tune, etc. And it can also be a word in plain text.

I think it's clear that Hyperion got an exclusive license to use "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "AmigaONE" and "Amiga ONE". In plain text.

Question is whether they have a license to any kind of particular graphical representation of  those words, and if so, if that is exclusive? I couldn't find that in the contract. Did I miss it?

As for AIncs rights, that's not as clear cut as the wording implies as the word "Amiga" is a standard spanish word. This means that the TM holder (AInc) must fall back on graphical representation to protect ownership of the mark or on fair usage.

Not true, you register a trade mark (could very well be a word or a combination of words) for use in marketing for a particular and defined product. The color blue is just as general as the Spanish word "Amiga", even more so even, but try marketing a cola-beverage using this color, and watch how Pepsi Cola strikes down on you like a hawk. And if you are marketing a custom-styled motorcycle, you'd better make sure it doesn't sound like Harley Davidson's trade mark protected sound, or they will kick your ass.

You are completely free to market blue colored custom-styled motorcycles however, at least you will be safe from Pepsi company. And I guess you could (could you? ) market a cola-beverage that sounds like a Harley Davidson, and be safe from that MC company. See my point?

Trade marks must be put in a carefully defined context, and are only valid in that context. I don't remember what products the Amiga trade mark is valid for, only that some of them (yes there are several, at least more than one) was somewhat aging, like "computer diskettes" or something like that. There is no "fair use" in using the color blue in marketing cola-beverages, and there is no "fair use" in using the text mark "Amiga" in marketing products covering areas protected by Amiga Inc's registered trade mark.

I see no grey-zones whatsoever here...

[takemehomegrandma]

I think it's interesting to see the reaction in some forums that this has caused. Wow!

But I have a difficult time understanding the upset (to say the least) feelings. I mean, this does in no way have anything to do with Hyperion, A-EON or anyone else some people holds so dear. Those parties can go on with their plans just as before. Nothing has changed. This doesn't concern them, their license to use the trade mark in the way the deal with Amiga Inc stipulates are still there AFAIK.

What it seems to do, is shaking some people up a bit. I'm talking of the people who always resented to crap like "but it's not the real!", the people who never looked at the actual products, but only the trade mark slapped on it.

Now, when something just as "real" is about to be released (because the Commodore Amiga's will be *exactly* as "real thing" as A-EON's stuff, no difference whatsoever), those people has to rethink their stance!

Maybe they will realize that brands aren't that important after all? Maybe they start to consider and compare the actual merits of various products instead?

It looks like this eye-opener is painful to some, but opening your eyes is often a good thing.

Kind of difficult to see otherwise!

[takemehomegrandma]

Has anyone confirmed if any legal paperwork has been filed?

It's a contract between two entities, what do you feel needs to be "filed", and where?

[takemehomegrandma]

Has anyone confirmed if any legal paperwork has been filed?

It's a contract between two entities, what do you feel needs to be "filed", and where?

What I was implying, is that you seem to believe that someone would file a trade mark somewhere. But why would that be necessary?

Take Hyperion's settlement with Amiga Inc for example; "AmigaOS" is not a trade mark in its own, AFAIK. I'd say there is *only one mark*, and that is "Amiga". It is owned by Amiga Inc, and no-one else.

What Hyperion seems to have, is *merely an agreement* stipulating that "OK, we (Amiga Inc) will not sue you if you use our Amiga mark in the following ways 'AmigaOS', 'Amiga OS', 'AmigaONE', 'Amiga ONE', when marketing your OS4".

AFAIK, no-one would need to file anything anywhere in order to make such an agreement, and I think Commodore has a similar deal!