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Author Topic: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?  (Read 10396 times)

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Offline maffoo

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2013, 09:51:47 PM »
Quote from: persia;742059
@psxphill, tablets and desktops are both computers, one is declining in sales numbers, one is increasing in sales numbers.  Yeah, it could be coincidence, and the nay sayers could be right the two aren't related.  But more often than not if you have two similar things and one is going up and the other down there is a link...



I think the more likely explanation is that the vast majority of people have a PC that suits their needs - any PC built within the last few years is more than adequate for most people, so they are being replaced when they break rather than when a faster model comes along. The market for new PCs has shrunk, so they sell less.

Tablets, on the other hand, have only been on the market for a few years - there are a lot of people out there who would like a tablet but haven't got one yet so there is a bigger market for them, and they sell more as a result. Eventually most people with a need for a tablet will have one, they will be fast enough for their needs, and the market will shrink just as it has with PCs.

IMO, the traditional PC will be around for a long time - tablets complement PCs, but don't replace them. I use my Nexus 7 a lot, and it's far more convenient than my PC for quickly checking something on the internet, but if I want to do any "real" work I use my PC.
 

Offline carvedeye

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2013, 11:33:23 PM »
So much for putting the start button back on the desktop, below is a video of windows 8.1 :(

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows-8/preview
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 11:46:57 PM by carvedeye »
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Offline psxphill

Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #61 on: July 25, 2013, 12:51:27 AM »
Quote from: persia;742059
@psxphill, tablets and desktops are both computers, one is declining in sales numbers, one is increasing in sales numbers. Yeah, it could be coincidence, and the nay sayers could be right the two aren't related. But more often than not if you have two similar things and one is going up and the other down there is a link...

This isn't like CRT vs LCD/LED where people stopped buying one and then started the other.
 
You're the nay sayer (One who frequently engages in excessive complaining, negative banter and/or a genuinely poor and downbeat attitude).
 
I'm just saying that I don't think Window is starting to die (at least no more than every living thing starts to die as soon as it's born).
 
Sales figures are irrelevant. How many people are using computers is more important than how many people are buying them. That figure is harder to get though.
 
Quote from: SysAdmin;741829
Even Dave Haynie is commenting on this thread.

The thread is TL;DR. I might be marginally interested in what he has to say if you copy and pasted it. However just because he has a history with commodore, doesn't mean that I would take on his opinion of the market now. I rather make up my own mind, which is why I didn't drink the Linux kool aid.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 01:10:37 AM by psxphill »
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #62 on: July 25, 2013, 01:48:01 AM »
Quote from: mikrucio;741869
YES! my evil master plan is working!

All i have to do now is remove windows from 3 billion other PC's around the globe!
not long from victory now!


LOL: Wrings hands and laughs maniacally.

The marketers certainly have their victory in making everybody think that quarterly sales is the indicator for technology usage footprint.

Here's and interesting stat: There are more people who have bought an iPad that don't actually use it to connect to the internet than those that do. What's going on there? :)
 

Offline James2002

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #63 on: July 25, 2013, 03:18:25 AM »
Quote from: ashtontrist;741972
I dont think Windows is dying. However a lot of things need to be changed. For example if you have used all OS from XP to Win8, You will find there isnt much difference anywhere. So it really that upgraded. In Win8 the only feature they have added is that the welcome page looks somewhat like a android mobile..

I kinda disagree.(I have used a lot of operation systems from Microsoft. Gmenu, windows 2.11, windows 3.11, windows 95, windows 98 and SE, windows Xp, windows me, Windows 2000, windows vista, windows 7 and windows 8. I do see some differences. Mostly how you do things to get things done.)  If the gaming industry does not support windows 8 that does say a lot. I have not seen  many new games come to windows 8.

I do believe that Microsoft needs to  reconsider the path they are going. If they going to compete with apple they need to change their game plan. People want things to work out of the box.

I don't like the cloud nonsense that going into the industry. That just asking for security leaks. Even If you use passwords with $^#$@ it wont protect you from people stealing your info.
 

Offline djos

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2013, 03:23:30 AM »
Quote from: bloodline;742042
The ribbon interface is the epitome of horrific, terrible, badly thought out design. I wish death upon the person who thought it up, and their families. There is much hate here.


Seriously, I like the Ribbon a lot and it's the only thing I miss in Office 2011 for Mac! (it's kind of a ribbon prototype in Mac Office).
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Offline persia

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #65 on: July 25, 2013, 03:31:04 AM »
To a different point Unix has won the tablet war, it's down to Linux based Android and BSD based iOS.  Unix installed base now is around 900 million devices.  The installed base of Windows is hard to calculate because it's been around longer, how many of the 3 billion manufactured units are still in use?  1 in 3?  The numbers are likely close.

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What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #66 on: July 25, 2013, 03:47:26 AM »
Quote from: persia;742106
To a different point Unix has won the tablet war, it's down to Linux based Android and BSD based iOS.  Unix installed base now is around 900 million devices.  The installed base of Windows is hard to calculate because it's been around longer, how many of the 3 billion manufactured units are still in use?  1 in 3?  The numbers are likely close.



Pretty loose definition of Unix.  Any looser and you could include Windows in there too. Unix-VMS-NT-Win8. You do realise Linux is not a Unix branch. Not officially N E way.

@djos : The Office 2013 Ribbon is a bit more touch friendly but it's not there yet.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 03:52:20 AM by gertsy »
 

Offline djos

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #67 on: July 25, 2013, 04:26:50 AM »
Quote from: gertsy;742109
Pretty loose definition of Unix.  Any looser and you could include Windows in there too. Unix-VMS-NT-Win8. You do realise Linux is not a Unix branch. Not officially N E way.

@djos : The Office 2013 Ribbon is a bit more touch friendly but it's not there yet.

Sorry Gertsy but POSIX compliance in the WinNT CLI does not equal "based on Unix".

I rather like it especially in Excel, I find now that i'm used to it I can find what I want orders of magnitude quicker than before. (PS, couldnt care less about touch, Im talking on real computers)
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Offline Plaz

Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2013, 04:30:12 AM »
Quote from: carvedeye;742080
So much for putting the start button back on the desktop, below is a video of windows 8.1 :(

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows-8/preview


That's the first time I've ever bothered to really look at Win 8.x and the first thing I think is.... OMG it's the Zune client interface. No really, start up your old Zune client, roam around and see if it isn't so. Win 7 and linux for me, keep your 8.blech.

Plaz
 

Offline Duce

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2013, 04:59:11 AM »
Quote from: persia;742106
To a different point Unix has won the tablet war, it's down to Linux based Android and BSD based iOS.  Unix installed base now is around 900 million devices.  The installed base of Windows is hard to calculate because it's been around longer, how many of the 3 billion manufactured units are still in use?  1 in 3?  The numbers are likely close.



Android has barely dented iOS on the tablet front.  The numbers you are referring to includes Android phones.  If one wishes to call iOS "Unix" or "BSD", and Android "Linux" that's on them.  But sticking a Ferrari decal on a Honda, or vice versa - depending on your perception, is sort of wonky.  Based on and actually being are two real different things, and until the day comes I can download source code for *nix and natively compile it without changes on either Android or iOS, I do see a difference.

Apple is still far more profitable despite losing quite a bit of ground market share wise to Android on the handset end.  iOS developers make more than Android developers still, despite the larger market share going to Android.

PS:  my daily driver devices are Android based.  No Apple fanboyism here, just facts.  Simple as searching for "iPad market share".

All Windows 7 games run on Windows 8 without issue, for the most part.  I've not yet hit one that does not, and I purchase 5-6 a month.  The claim that game manufacturers do not support Windows 8 is horseplop unless your version of "supporting Windows 8" is a giant sticker on the box that SAYS "FOR WINDOWS EIGHT!!!!11!!".

It doesn't really need to be stated.  Windows 8 has a full desktop GUI that really is not terribly different than Windows 7, and around here, most of the W8 detractors are guys that will openly admit they have never even tried it :)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 06:48:54 AM by Duce »
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2013, 06:14:27 AM »
Quote from: djos;742113
Sorry Gertsy but POSIX compliance in the WinNT CLI does not equal "based on Unix".

I rather like it especially in Excel, I find now that i'm used to it I can find what I want orders of magnitude quicker than before. (PS, couldnt care less about touch, Im talking on real computers)


My association wasn't POSIX or I might have quoted Powershell as well.
It was the direct link from NT to Digital VMS that came from RSX-11, Which came from PDP-11, and yes you may have guessed it, early versions of Unix TSS and C.  UNICS Timeshare, or UNIX TSS being the source for all Unix variants.  
Gasps of disbelief I hear. The sound of keyboards clicking searching in google, could it be true?  Suggest you search with Bing if u want real answers.. :)
Linux "appeared" from a binary kernel copy of Minux in the late 80's (From nowhere some zealots would have us believe) around the same time that binary reverse engineering was very popular. (Arrrgh me hearties!!!)
If you were to actually believe the "story" on the origins of the Linux and to some extent the Minux kernel, that would mean that the origins of Windows (of the NT variety ie the current arm) come from the actual origins of Unix whereas Linux does not.  Think about that for a moment.
Though I'm pretty sure you could draw a direct line from Minux to either BSD or Unix32 both university popular in the mid to late 80s. Perhaps those university creators should admit to their "artistry" to re-establish the line and missing link.

PS: Real computers have touch too.  Typed on my Dell XPS12 I7 SSD with Win 8 and Touch.

@Duce.  My experience is the same. Even old CS 1.5 works.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 06:26:55 AM by gertsy »
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2013, 06:35:19 AM »
Quote from: gertsy;742122
It was the direct link from NT to Digital VMS that came from RSX-11, Which came from PDP-11, and yes you may have guessed it, early versions of Unix TSS and C.  UNICS Timeshare, or UNIX TSS being the source for all Unix variants.
Oy, this again...Wikipedia doesn't mention anything about RSX-11 being based on Unix, nor do I see anything on the subject from a quick web search. Dave Cutler, the project lead on RSX-11M and later architect of VMS and Windows NT, was also known for open disdain towards Unix. And arguing that there must be a basis because both of them ran on PDP-11s is like saying that I'm a derivative of Don Knotts because we're both human beings...
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Offline gertsy

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2013, 06:44:48 AM »
That would be a suitable analogy were Don Knotts alive.  Or did we just witness another death?
Linus T had open distain towards Minux so ?
Your argument on PDP-11 and the OS that drove the origins of RSX-11 is just as valid or invalid as mine for the same non-evidential reasons.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 06:59:44 AM by gertsy »
 

Offline James2002

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2013, 07:02:47 AM »
Quote from: Duce;742118
All Windows 7 games run on Windows 8 without issue, for the most part.  I've not yet hit one that does not, and I purchase 5-6 a month.  The claim that game manufacturers do not support Windows 8 is horseplop unless your version of "supporting Windows 8" is a giant sticker on the box that SAYS "FOR WINDOWS EIGHT!!!!11!!".
It doesn't really need to be stated.  Windows 8 has a full desktop GUI that really is not terribly different than Windows 7, and around here, most of the W8 detractors are guys that will openly admit they have never even tried it :)

I disagree with you Duce. I take my experience. I have used windows 8. I hate it.  I would not even  upgrade my parent's business computer to windows 8.

1. one game I had to change it to windows xp sp3 for compatibility. The game would lag very bad. It was slow before I fix it.
2. one game I had it was so tiny that you could not see it.
3. Windows 8 in 1 year become slow on the desktop. It was taking long time to load up.  (Sandybridge I3 3.30ghz  12Gb of Ram)
4. I am not going to spend hours figuring out how to trouble shoot compatibility for games.
 5. Every session of w8 the video driver would crash. There was no new driver for it.
6. Defragment was a fail.  
7. Windows 8 is the new Windows Me

Tile everything that junk. It not really windows it just a touch screen  thing for useless traditional desktop interface.  I am not going to spend 400-1000 dollars for touch-screen monitor. Pretty much the operation system is brand new.

Most of the W8 detractors knows that it not worth the money. Nor is it worth the time. You have to relearn how to use windows unless your person like me. I got a free third party application that adds an start menu button to it. All the applications are on the list.  It made my life easier.
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Did we all just witness Windows start to die?
« Reply #74 from previous page: July 25, 2013, 07:22:49 AM »
Quote from: gertsy;742127
Your argument on PDP-11 and the OS that drove the origins of RSX-11 is just as valid or invalid as mine for the same non-evidential reasons.
What? You're the one making the claim; the burden of evidence is on you. What basis do you have for claiming that RSX-11 was based on Unix?
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