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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: Schoenfeld on September 23, 2009, 10:50:55 AM

Title: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Schoenfeld on September 23, 2009, 10:50:55 AM
Hi,

with Indivision ECS in production now, there's only one machine left that cannot take advantage of a modern flickerfixer: The A4000T.

I have gotten a few requests, but nothing that would justify a production run at the moment. Space in the machine is considerably smaller, so parts of the product need to be re-designed. Features will stay exactly the same as with Indivision AGA for 1200/4000D/CD32.

I already started asking in a German forum; I'd need at least 150 pre-orders to justify a production run. If this kind of pre-order can be collected before the end of october, we might have the product under the xmas tree. Since 4000T's have been sold a lot in the US, I'm hoping for more positive results from this forum.

I already heard that 130,- EUR is almost "the hard upper limit" for the price; only a few people are willing to pay more. With the current exchange rate, that's a little over 190 USD.

Let me know what you think - and how many you'd buy!

Jens
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: mdivancic on September 23, 2009, 11:31:09 AM
I'd buy one for sure, maybe two!
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Crumb on September 23, 2009, 11:40:29 AM
Hi Jens

I want one (I just have one A4000T).

I also have the A1200 and A4000 versions and these work great.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: amigadave on September 23, 2009, 04:14:53 PM
I'd be interested in one.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Pyromania on September 23, 2009, 06:23:02 PM
We would buy one as long as it works fine with the Video Toaster 4000 and the Flyer.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: rkauer on September 23, 2009, 06:27:04 PM
Jens, maybe a naive suggestion, but can't you just make an adaptor raiser to use just the A4000D or A1200 version instead?

 It will make the board a bit taller and will add some cost to the ready-made other unit, but much less than a whole new board.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Schoenfeld on September 23, 2009, 08:11:55 PM
Quote from: rkauer;523743
Jens, maybe a naive suggestion, but can't you just make an adaptor raiser to use just the A4000D or A1200 version instead?

Indivision AGA sits on top of the Lisa chip, so a "riser" would have to have an empty PLCC84 chip to make connection with the flickerfixer. In addition to such a non-existent part (at least not to my knowledge), signal length would harm signal quality. I would have done that long ago, especially with so many A4000D/CD32 versions in stock, that you're hopefully buying this xmas season :-)

All Indivision models (even the external one from a few years ago) are toaster compatible. That was the whole point of me getting into this business, to make the first toaster-compatible external flickerfixer. I thought it would be obvious that I'm following up on this tradition with my updated, internal models.

Jens
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Pyromania on September 23, 2009, 09:03:27 PM
@Schoenfeld

Thanx for the clarification, just making sure it works on the old but still cool Amiga Video Toaster Flyer. That also means the CD32 version of the Video Toaster will work no problem with Indivision AGA.


:)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: HammerD on September 23, 2009, 10:08:49 PM
Jens, I would buy one. I'm in Canada.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: HyAmi on September 23, 2009, 10:23:23 PM
As I was playing around last week with my A4KT I was thinking; If we could only get the indivision for this machine... So, thanks for asking and Sure! I'd buy one.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: yogisumo on September 24, 2009, 03:40:30 AM
I would buy one for my A4000T.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Matt_H on September 24, 2009, 03:53:39 AM
Sign me up for one!
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Pyromania on September 24, 2009, 05:51:24 AM
No one caught my little joke? Video Toaster for CD32.

:)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: nishtek on September 24, 2009, 02:15:45 PM
Hi Jens,
as mentioned in our private emails, I don't think we can find easily 150 orders for this.   However If we do i'd gladly support the production run and act as dealer on it.  One of problems of A4000T is that the Lisa/Alice are often close to accelerator.  And some accelerators are big etc.  so thats something to keep in mind.  an external flicker fixer is much safer?
nishtek.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Schoenfeld on September 24, 2009, 04:56:03 PM
Quote from: nishtek;523831
One of problems of A4000T is that the Lisa/Alice are often close to accelerator.  And some accelerators are big etc.  so thats something to keep in mind.  an external flicker fixer is much safer?


External is out of the question, as Indivision depends on signals that are on the chip bus, but not on the video slot or RGB slot.

So, if accelerators are getting in the way, could you all take hi-res photos of he area? I did acquire an A4000T this week, but it's not working and has the original Commodore 040 card.

Jens
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Jakodemus on September 24, 2009, 04:56:53 PM
Interested in buying one.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Schoenfeld on September 27, 2009, 10:21:43 AM
Keep those photos of installed accelerators coming! Oh wait, nobody took one yet...

Jens
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: HyAmi on September 27, 2009, 01:15:40 PM
Quote from: Schoenfeld;524067
Keep those photos of installed accelerators coming! Oh wait, nobody took one yet...

Jens


@Jens
if this is becoming reality... do you intend to make it (space-wise) compatible with all accelerators? And would really need pictures or is the distance as indicated in the picture enough?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: amigadave on September 27, 2009, 01:45:46 PM
Quote from: Schoenfeld;524067
Keep those photos of installed accelerators coming! Oh wait, nobody took one yet...

Jens

Sorry no one has posted the pics you need Jens, I will try to get a pic of my A4000T/CSPPC combo posted today.  I don't particularly wish to remove every A4000 compatible accelerator from my other Amiga models and put them into my A4000T to take additional pictures, but if others here do not start posting pictures of their own A4000T's with different accelerators, I guess that is the least I could do to help you out with your research and decision making.

Edit: @HyAmi, I think Jens intention is to make room for most, if not all A4000T compatible accelerators to work with the A4000T version of the IndivisionAGA.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: HyAmi on September 27, 2009, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: amigadave;524076
Edit: @HyAmi, I think Jens intention is to make room for most, if not all A4000T compatible accelerators to work with the A4000T version of the IndivisionAGA.

Yeah, I thought the same. However, an accelerator like the Quikpak 4060 is quite a nasty beast in terms of size (and layout).

If no-one beats me to it, I'll take a picture of the A3640. The Quikpak XP rev2 is (in direction of the Lisa chip) the same size as the A3640.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Tahoe on September 27, 2009, 07:06:59 PM
Quote from: Schoenfeld;523845
So, if accelerators are getting in the way, could you all take hi-res photos of he area? I did acquire an A4000T this week, but it's not working and has the original Commodore 040 card.

Jens


Jens, if you need an A4000T board for testing let me know and I'll send you one. I have fully working one I can miss for a while.
It also has all the IO modules.

PM me if you are interested.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: RMK305 on September 27, 2009, 09:03:02 PM
Any plans to produce automatic monitor switchers?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: F0LLETT on September 27, 2009, 09:46:46 PM
Quote from: RMK305;524119
Any plans to produce automatic monitor switchers?

Thats abit off topic, lol.

Jens, I would love to see an indivision for a True A4000T.
I also think people would want them.
I know its not alot, but I have had atleast 4 to 6 questions regarding an A4000T scandoubler.

Whats that old quote from that film, "If you build it, they will come" ;).
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Akiko on September 27, 2009, 10:00:36 PM
I would love have one for my A4000T.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: RMK305 on September 27, 2009, 10:12:48 PM
Quote from: F0LLETT;524123
Thats abit off topic, lol.



I know, but I don't have an A4000T and am just about to buy an indivision for my A4000 and it hit me that nearly everyone who bought one that also has a graphics card would want to buy a decent switcher.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Schoenfeld on September 28, 2009, 06:12:19 AM
I need photos of the accelerator(s) as they are installed in the A4000T, with Lisa visible on that same photo - ideally seen from top. Please double-check that the photo is focused, use a tripod and close the aperture as far as possible to increase focus and avoid using a flash.

I won't need a working A4000T, as the chipset behaviour will be the same as in the other AGA machines, where I have all flavours here. Development will be possible without a working A4000T; the one I own is enough for a mechanical sample. I'm happy to send a sample to someone for testing before production starts, just to play it safe, but that's far in the future right now.

I am not planning on a switch at the moment, this would make the thing even more expensive. It'll already be hard enough to reach that 129,- EUR goal with such small space available.

Jens
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Matt_H on September 29, 2009, 03:54:02 AM
@ Schoenfeld

Regarding switchers, Eyetech made a series of automatic and manual ones that would connect to the 10pin IDC ribbon header of the DCE scandoubler. If the Indivisions use the same pinout (is 10pin IDC VGA a standard?) maybe they might work out of the box...?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Marien on September 29, 2009, 04:10:59 AM
Hi Jens, its a super idea. I plan buy your Indivision AGA for A4000T too.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: X-ray on September 29, 2009, 02:33:26 PM
Jens, maybe I can help. Here is an X-ray of the area on the A4000T mobo, with some overlays:
 
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/JensA4000TLisaX-ray2.jpg)
 
Lisa is blue, you have to avoid the red areas:
 
1 = Forward stand-off point for the accelerator
2 = PAL/NTSC jumper block
3 = Capacitor
4 = Keyboard connector
5 = Discs Module (SCSI etc)
 
The green is where I reckon you can build, if you keep the Indivision lower than the accelerator board.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: X-ray on September 29, 2009, 02:43:22 PM
If you don't want any part of the Indivision to be under the accelerator (In this case Cyberstorm MK II or Cyberstorm PPC), then you have this space to work with:
 
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/JensA4000TLisaX-ray3.jpg)
 
Here is a crappy phone picture of my A4000T with the PPC installed, note the red areas. The arrow shows the position of the forward standoff in relation to the edge of the board:
 
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/JensA4000TLisa.jpg)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: X-ray on September 29, 2009, 02:44:25 PM
And yes, I will buy one.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Calgor on September 29, 2009, 03:10:48 PM
I would also buy one too.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Schoenfeld on September 29, 2009, 03:58:44 PM
Quote from: X-ray;524234
And yes, I will buy one.


Thanks for the fantastic material! I'll try to count some pixels to get exact measurement from the picture. Saves quite some work, thanks!

Jens
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: 560SL on September 29, 2009, 07:19:00 PM
Sign me up for one too!

Sick and tired of chasing ancient PIV's on eBay for rediculous prices.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: F0LLETT on September 29, 2009, 09:10:18 PM
Quote from: Schoenfeld;524245
Thanks for the fantastic material! I'll try to count some pixels to get exact measurement from the picture. Saves quite some work, thanks!

Jens


I got alot of pics for you.
You want me to email them to you?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Schoenfeld on September 29, 2009, 09:54:56 PM
Quote from: F0LLETT;524270
I got alot of pics for you.
You want me to email them to you?


Sure - I meant to eMail you earlier, but I've got lots of other work.

Jens
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: F0LLETT on September 29, 2009, 10:28:04 PM
Quote from: Schoenfeld;524274
Sure - I meant to eMail you earlier, but I've got lots of other work.

Jens


k, will email now.

EDIT:- Email Sent.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: puppy on October 15, 2009, 12:04:21 PM
Hi Jens,

I would buy one, too. I also agree autoswitch would be a nice idea. We already share monitor inputs with KVMs and there's no spare input.

I would love to pay more than 130 euros for hat nice item.

By the way, anyone has got spare (Escom) tower case to be sold?

Thanks!.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: HyAmi on October 31, 2009, 04:23:01 PM
@Jens

Have you made a decision yet whether you'll make an A4000T Indivision or not?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Moto on November 05, 2009, 03:39:39 PM
Is this project still happening?  I'm currently trying to unravel the mysteries of RTG and Scan Doubler options for 4000Ts and I'd love nothing more than to have an Indivision board instead.    Researching and buying old Amiga hardware is an interesting hobby to have. :-)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Firedawg on November 19, 2009, 01:42:01 PM
@Jens,

Hopefully, this project is still moving forward.  I like the 129,- EUR pricing range, but I know it will be tight.  You can count me for one as well. :)  I will also send my pic of the accelerator in my A4000T.  

The Dawg!
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: alexh on December 06, 2009, 01:09:27 PM
Surely an A4000T doesn't have to connect to the Lisa chip does it?

It could be a video slot card with a zorro interface no? All the signals should be there, no?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: matthey on December 06, 2009, 04:22:02 PM
Quote from: alexh;532808
Surely an A4000T doesn't have to connect to the Lisa chip does it?

It could be a video slot card with a zorro interface no? All the signals should be there, no?


Except there is a video sync issue with the 4000T video slots. I have a scandoubler card that works great on a 4000 but has glitches on my 4000T. I talked to an Amiga tech, Ed from Kansas, who said this is normal and that it affects the Toaster too. He didn't know of a fix but mentioned a couple of things that could solve the problem. Either the Indivision on the Lisa or Indivision on a video slot card with a video slot fix would be nice. Both have their advantages and disadvantages but either is better than the few solutions 4000T owners have now.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: tone007 on December 06, 2009, 05:24:54 PM
Quote from: alexh;532808
Surely an A4000T doesn't have to connect to the Lisa chip does it?

It could be a video slot card with a zorro interface no? All the signals should be there, no?

That sounds like it'd incur more development cost than just adapting the current design.

Can't say an actual card wouldn't be nice, though.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: arnljot on December 06, 2009, 06:38:05 PM
Quote from: alexh;532808
Surely an A4000T doesn't have to connect to the Lisa chip does it?

It could be a video slot card with a zorro interface no? All the signals should be there, no?


Doesn´t the Indivision "replace" the Lisa chip?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: X-ray on December 06, 2009, 08:00:42 PM
For me the standard clip-on-Lisa approach is better because I simply don't have any Zorro slots free!
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: amigadave on December 06, 2009, 08:13:57 PM
Quote from: Moto;528450
Is this project still happening?  I'm currently trying to unravel the mysteries of RTG and Scan Doubler options for 4000Ts and I'd love nothing more than to have an Indivision board instead.    Researching and buying old Amiga hardware is an interesting hobby to have. :-)


There was a recent listing of a PicassoIV for sale here on the forums.  That is the best solution for an A4000T, but the IndivisionAGA is a nice solution for a Video Toaster/Flyer machine as the Toaster's interface is not RTG, IIRC.  Parts of the LightWave interface can be promoted I think, but most of the rest of the NewTek interfaces are limited to standard display resolutions.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: chusete on February 14, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Hi Jens,

I would buy one, too.

(And another one for an A1200 when available again).
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Jonas on February 15, 2010, 04:08:50 PM
wuld buy one to guess there is alot of ppl in sweden that want to buy one to . that dont hang around here ..
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: desantii on August 04, 2010, 09:53:29 PM
resurecting an old thread, I would buy one!
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: Akiko on September 04, 2010, 08:01:52 AM
Any more news on this?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: magnetic on September 04, 2010, 08:50:03 AM
Hey Jens

I'm about to get an a4000T again so I'm very interested in this product as well. You know that if you make them you will sell them. Hasnt every production run of Amiga hw you have ever done sold out?

:-D
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: X-ray on September 04, 2010, 09:40:22 AM
I don't think Jens posts on Amiga.org anymore. He left last year in December.
Might be best to try to find him at EAB or AW.
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: fpoinot on January 10, 2011, 03:19:30 PM
I am eagerly awaiting the offering of a 4000T version of the Indivision AGA as well.  My 4000T (one of the original 200) is still in good working order, but desperately needs a display upgrade.  It is painful to use a 1960 monitor nowdays.  It is however a testament that the machine is quite capable still as a plain 040; it has been, what, 15 years since Commodore first released it?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: TheGoose on January 10, 2011, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Schoenfeld;523748
Indivision AGA sits on top of the Lisa chip, so a "riser" would have to have an empty PLCC84 chip to make connection with the flickerfixer. In addition to such a non-existent part (at least not to my knowledge), signal length would harm signal quality. I would have done that long ago, especially with so many A4000D/CD32 versions in stock, that you're hopefully buying this xmas season :-)

Jens


Is it true there will be an Indivision AGA (A1200) MKII ? If so any word on the improvements. I want to buy one...
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: RMK305 on January 10, 2011, 06:27:54 PM
Yes, see this thread:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=55980
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: José Manuel on August 22, 2011, 06:29:07 PM
No more news about production of this hardware?
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: mfilos on August 22, 2011, 08:25:12 PM
@AlicePPC
If you check the thread that RMK305 linked you can see the following:

Quote
The prototype I'm currently working on is for A1200 and A4000T.
Quote
Since the target is to be out with the thing by october, the probability is *very* high. I have finished the register-communication on the new prototype in a way that I can update timing parameters of the CPLD with some FPGA signals. This way, I'll be able to adapt timing to weird accelerator cards with a simple flash upgrade.

I hope I can make the same thing for the pixel timing; some of you may know that the old Indivision AGA had trouble with Lisa chips by NCR, but works fine with HP and most Commodore Lisa chips. I'll know later this week.

Jens
(http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=29347&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1313990197) (http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=29347&d=1313990197)
Title: Re: Indivision AGA for A4000 Tower?
Post by: mechy on August 22, 2011, 08:53:33 PM
i would buy one for sure.
count me in

Mech