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Author Topic: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?  (Read 5429 times)

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Offline whabang

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2004, 05:02:16 PM »
16-bit quality rules. (Yes, I know that the chip uses internal 32-bit rendering)
Beating the dead horse since 2002.
 

Offline AmiDelfTopic starter

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2004, 05:20:15 PM »
What sort of NDA's are you talking about? Yes, I would love to work with someone like you downix.

I would love to create a new Amiga team. I would love to build it up slowly. Getting hardware people tougether. Because a Amiga with PowerVR custom mainboard replacing AGA would doo lots.

In the end, AmigaOS4 could be licensed. Maybe a PayPal account could be created, to gather money for such project like this?

This project can show what Amiga people really wants...

Regards
Michal, www.amigaworld.org,
I love and respect people which care! And not those with
a heart made of stone.
 

Offline lempkee

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2004, 05:31:11 PM »
amidelf: u dont know what an NDA is ? ..ok..

Whats up with all the hate!
 

Offline AmiDelfTopic starter

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2004, 05:32:10 PM »
Yes, but I didn't understand his NDA? About what? ehrm.. :)
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Offline Crumb

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2004, 06:19:55 PM »
@Lempkee:

"also the DC didnt die because of the hardware or the software, it died because of SEGA's lame way of marketing their products and maybe most of all they turned every developer down due to they wanted to kill it themself (almost like nintendo GC 1 year ago, but it has resurected!)."

IMHO one of the points that helps a console to sell well is piracy. N64 sold bad because it was hard to pirate games and the solutions to pirate games came too late (like in the DC). PS1 sold well because it was dead easy to pirate games. Same with PS2.  XBoxes are sold because it's easy to pirate games. I didn't see GameCubes until someone found a way to boot games from normal cdroms (=pirate games).

With the GC the same has happened, it only was sold in few quantities until someone found a way to execute code in the console using its network card, now it's possible to use pirate games so now it's selling well.

My theory is that if a console is more or less easy to pirate and has lots of titles it will sell well.

As the companies that make these consoles are big and they sell lots of units and hundreds of games are sold even if the piracy level is high, developers still have profits. Users buy a few originals and pirate lots of games but as there are hundreds of thousands of users, developers still have profits.

In our market it's really stupid to piraty anything as we have so few titles that a few users buying a product makes a huge difference.

So in conclusion... consoles easy to pirate sell well. It doesn't matter if the other consoles are better if their games are harder to pirate, users will choose the one with more pirate games.

That happened with amiga and pc in the early 90s too... people bought pcs due to the easy way of getting pirate games/apps and not because it was better/worse than amigas. When they said "why you use an amiga? it doesn't have programs!" they mean that their friends couldn't pass them pirate apps/games.

This is sad but true. And DC sales was smashed by PS1 even thought in some technical aspects it was better than the PS2 :-(
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Offline Coder

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2004, 06:59:33 PM »
@Crumb

You are 100% rigth! Consoles that can be modified to run pirated games
sell. Consoles that don't are not selling. Sad but true. I mean the
GameCube is a beauty but the Playstation did better since you can put
a modchip in there.

Coder
Check it out - I found the ass-end!
 

Offline downix

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2004, 07:11:49 PM »
Quote

AmiDelf wrote:
What sort of NDA's are you talking about? Yes, I would love to work with someone like you downix.


Well, I'm right here

Quote
I would love to create a new Amiga team. I would love to build it up slowly. Getting hardware people tougether. Because a Amiga with PowerVR custom mainboard replacing AGA would doo lots.

You have a lot of options, including full-custom solutions.  Depends on how much money you want to spend
Quote


In the end, AmigaOS4 could be licensed. Maybe a PayPal account could be created, to gather money for such project like this?

This project can show what Amiga people really wants...

Regards
Michal, www.amigaworld.org,

OS4 is one option, MorphOS is another and so is AROS.  you'd have the pick of the litter, so to say.  Don't waste any advantage like that by playing to sides.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline ACE

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2004, 07:34:35 PM »
It looks as if you have been doing the same internet browsing as me recently!

I was very interested in your ideas about creating a new 'classic amiga'.  Sorry I haven't read all 6 pages of it, and while I agree the community needs something special going back to the days of AA/AAA isn't practical for all the reasons mensioned in that post.

But what was REALLY special about Amiga and why it still has a following today is that it did so much with so little.  Efficient design of the O/S and of the Hardware.  The two worked in unison to create the amiga experience.

Part of that was down to developers knowing they had a firm specification to build for.  (I know hitting the hardware is frowned on these days but that's what made so good (Insidentally that's why I think so many people are against the AmigaDE ideals, an "abstraction layer, no I want to program the chips dirrectly.") Back onto subject ...sort of)...

That's why console games can (just about) keep up with the more powerful PC hardware configs; a firm base line on which to work to, a minimum spec.  That's why a like the Game Boy Advance, it does a lot with the minimal hardware it has.  PowerVR has a similar sort of idealogy (ahhh the point at last!)

What would be great is a new Amiga based on a PDA version of the PowerVR.  I've been 'researching' the idea of a pda Amiga; running UAE on a established PDA.  Using a Dragonball CPU which is based on a 68000 anyway.  But the custom chips are too hard to emulate and it would require alot more than a 66MHz (Currently the fastest 68k based Dragonball) to emulate OCS let alone AGA.

So the solution is to add Custom hardware.  I toyed with the idea of a CF/SD device but bandwidths are surely too low.

So what about a new start, a custom(ish) PowerVR 3D chip making a 3D 'Amigaboy'.  Now that would embody the Amiga ideals of design efficency, and give us a new classic to be prowd of.

This is not as far fetched as it all seems, I'll post some html links when I find them again.  Technology is moving in this direction time to stop looking at the past and embrace the future.  I'd buy one...probably.
 

Offline seer

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2004, 08:46:25 PM »
@AmiDelf

Seeing as you are taking this forward (or trying to at least) do you have a business plan ? Or are you hoping to just get "there" by luck and think of it "it's only a hobby" ? Seems you want to go back to Los Gatos kind of setup..

Maybe you should contact Jeri Ellsworth, set up some kind of meeting with some people here (Downix seems to be willing to lend a helping hand) and discuss this "dream" of yours (and plenty of others) in "private..

Just a suggestion.
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Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2004, 09:24:59 PM »
I don't think the piracy has a strong influence for selling a gameconsole. The PS1 for instance, was already selling very well before cd's could easily being copied.
And copying games for the Amiga was far easier than copying games for the SNES or Megadrive.

And btw. about that gfx thing; didn't Amiga inc. cooperate with Matrox?
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline minator

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2004, 09:42:49 PM »
Unless you plan to do this as a hobby only or perhaps as a hobby business I don't think it's a very good idea.  It'll never become a serious contender outside the Amiga geek world unless it offers something unique, something better than the rest.  Efficiency only sells to engineers, it means nothing to anyone else.

The Amiga was good because it was fast, The Mac did everything in software whereas the Amiga did a lot of stuff in hardware so not only graphics and sound were faster so was everything else because the CPU was freed up.

These days everone uses the same approach, CPUs are now so fast you don't need to use hardware and the only area it's needed is for 3D and thats done very nicely by ATI, Nvidia and Sony.

Want to build a new "Classic Amiga", firstly dump the idea of using a 68K or compatible, even a low end PowerPC with JIT will outgun them.  For the hardware use a FPGA, they're fast and cheap these days, anything else will cost you *vast* sums of money.  For other graphics (3D) use an embedded graphics chip, ATI do them and there'll be supplies for a long time, they'll also kick the Kyro's ass.

The best addition you could include is a PCI connector - so you can plug it into a PC - and in doing so increase you potential market from hundreds of units to millions of units.

Oh and yes, speaking to Jeri is probably a good idea - she already has parts which could go into an Amiga emulator...
 

Offline Imerion

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2004, 10:27:52 PM »
The PowerVR chip rules! It has loads of interesting features that even the newest Gfx-chips hasnt. If you wonder, I love the Dreamcast! Dreamcast Scene
\\"I wonder what the people will see in the final days...\\"
 

Offline AmiDelfTopic starter

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2004, 03:05:04 AM »
This project ittends to be open as much as possible. Amigans will be forming it tougether.

Whats choosen is:
- PowerVR custom based motherboard replacing AGA
- PPC will be used
- USB Amiga keyboards

More to come.



Regards,
Michal, www.amigaworld.org
I love and respect people which care! And not those with
a heart made of stone.
 

Offline AmiDelfTopic starter

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2004, 03:18:08 AM »
@seer

Hehe. I dont want to be a new Commodore, not telling anything at all. Thats how Amiga Inc is today and keeps Amigans waiting and waiting.

I believe that when AmigaOS4 is out, people will be very happy. I will get myself a AmigaOne aswell, but this project tries to create the Amiga as it was.

I hope that this can be done, but if not. Well, then I've tried atleast.

Regards,
Michal, www.amigaworld.org
I love and respect people which care! And not those with
a heart made of stone.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2004, 11:40:56 AM »
Quote

AmiDelf wrote:
This project ittends to be open as much as possible. Amigans will be forming it tougether.

Whats choosen is:
- PowerVR custom based motherboard replacing AGA
- PPC will be used
- USB Amiga keyboards

More to come.



Regards,
Michal, www.amigaworld.org



What design requirement requres the PPC? a MIPS would be nicer, but expensive, why not go with a bottom end Athlon64 (cheap, 64bit, widely supported and uses Hypertransport busses!)

Offline lempkee

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Re: Is PowerVR chip (used in Dreamcast) a good one?
« Reply #29 from previous page: January 30, 2004, 11:53:17 AM »
whats the best design for usb keyboard/mice really? , anyone know? ..

as we all know how amiga and mac and pc acts under optical usb mouse etc, even on a 3ghz x86 , its slowing everything down!..

any thought? ,
and btw amidelf why is USB keyboard and mice a must? ..

Whats up with all the hate!