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Author Topic: amigaone cpu ??  (Read 5356 times)

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Offline olegil

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2003, 09:48:36 AM »
@KennyR:

Of course, if AmigaOS (or even Morphos) would be ported to a 2GHz x86 successfully, that would be even faster. But I think the point you're trying to get across is that your 600MHz G3 is fast _enough_, which rarely happens on my 2.2GHz P4 (Debian). For some odd reason it doesn't happen on my 666MHz G3 (Debian) either, but that's Linux for you, yes. X is a bad beast...
 

Offline KennyR

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2003, 10:12:09 AM »
Quote
good PC in america can be gotten for far below 1000USD let alone UKP ... for example one of my systems..

P4 2.4/533FSB
1.5GB DDR
2x 80GB IBM drives
drive sleds/caddys
CDRW 32X
Asus motherboard
GeForce4 Ti4400


Middle end. (Looks like a teeny gamer's setup, actually.)

Besides, a x86 native AmigaOS could never be coded to work on the range of PC hardware people would want (ie. a new setup every six months), so why even both to mention it?

Quote
I think peggy might make a nice game console or something someday because of this..


Hold that thought. Genesi make their money from custom hardware. In other words, standard hardware = no money. No money = no development. No development = no OS. If you're waiting for a x86 Pegasos, I advise you to prepare for a VERY long haul.
 

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2003, 10:23:53 AM »
see your assumeing an AmigaOS for X86 would need to run on everything...if it ran on 1 setup and they told us what to buy...and it was obselete it would still be cheaper and more attainable :) ...I said this to rouge... he said 'how would we support it' and mentioned the same chipset combo he's been mentioning for 2 years now...the ali magic and radeon classic I believe... I think this argument dosent hold water as the motherboard is only 1 thing that can cause problems like that... suppport will be the same no matter what... and if they did go X86 they could just release compatability sheets to tell people what to buy and what not to.

and my P4 2.4 was bought all new... Quadro 4 750 due back from PNY anytime now : ) no gamer system... I dont even have Quake...
 

Offline KennyR

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2003, 10:31:51 AM »
Quote
see your assumeing an AmigaOS for X86 would need to run on everything...if it ran on 1 setup and they told us what to buy...and it was obselete it would still be cheaper and more attainable :)


Erm, no.

If they told you what to buy, it would limit people in the same way as PPC hardware does, negating the whole advantage of using cheaper PC stuff. So what's the point? And as for availability - forget it. Try getting old PC hardware on a reliable basis and you'll see what I mean. And, supporting a chipset doesn't mean supporting more cards in the same family, as you'd soon find out.

Quote
and my P4 2.4 was bought all new... Quadro 4 750 due back from PNY anytime now : ) no gamer system... I dont even have Quake...


Then you wasted your money, my friend. Unless you needed a heater, that is.
 

Offline Warface

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2003, 10:33:39 AM »
I won't forget my friend of mine, who from the beginning preferred Linux over MOS (before getting his Peg), and now refraining "Why is it so damn slow?" when he boots into Linux instead of MOS. I've heard from him "Voyager is the fastest browser on earth" and the like, when he tried MOS. Again, it's nothing objective, just the result of the shock having an AmigaOS like operating system on a decent hardware. The same will go for OS4 I presume.

Except stability AmigaOS is a killer. Stability is the issue both OS4 and MOS will have to face, and they address differently.

I know, I know, a decent browser provides more than current Amiga browsers, just as Linux provides more services than either OS I mentioned above but I hope you get what I mean. :-)
 

Offline meerschaum

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2003, 10:38:21 AM »
I wasted number 3000 nooooooo ... I forgot ...
 

Offline Paul_Gadd

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2003, 10:45:04 AM »
@KennyR

You own a Pegasos? i thought you was a Amigaone and OS4 only guy.

Amazing.
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2003, 10:57:04 AM »
@ KennyR

I installed Win311 on my system between OS reinstalls for laughs, and Win311 took ~6 seconds to finish loading from the moment I hit enter on win.com.

But anyway, Win95 is a PITA to get into shape to have an Internet connection and not get blown off the net within minutes, Win311 even more so.
 

Offline KennyR

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2003, 11:09:36 AM »
Quote
I wasted number 3000 nooooooo ... I forgot ...


 :oops:
 

Offline KennyR

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2003, 11:11:22 AM »
Quote
I installed Win311 on my system between OS reinstalls for laughs, and Win311 took ~6 seconds to finish loading from the moment I hit enter on win.com.


Did I mention that about 6 seconds of the MOS boot is actually the initialisation of Open Firmware? MOS only takes about 4 seconds to boot. Seems it still beats Windows3.11. ;-)
 

Offline amigamad

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2003, 02:58:07 PM »
I think you will find it is because phase 5 had already  made ppc acelerators for older 68k based amigas, and it was a easier to use ppc than an x86 chips, i think ppc has some sort of compatability with 68k and it also runs very cool meaning it would be better for imformation devices where there is not much room or airflow.x86 would need a lot of work and i reckon it would cost a lot more to get a board desighn. ? :-)
I once had an amigaone xe but sold it .

http://www.tamiyaclub.com
 

Offline roger_ramjetTopic starter

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2003, 03:08:34 PM »
ok i started this thread to see what people would have to say so i could get a better idea of why ppc was chosen, however i made a mistake in my question. Most people are concentrating on the actual CPU , i meant why was the ppc PLATFORM chosen. Yes i have read with interest all of the above messages but can i please clarify . I believe that X86 would have been better again for price/performance ratio , peripheral support. Something this ppc platform misses out on are features such as dual channel ddr ram controllers , integrated ram controllers ( future Athlon 64) , better ...
 

Offline roger_ramjetTopic starter

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2003, 03:12:31 PM »
support for SMP , pci-express , higher FSB and so on and so forth . That is just the hardware . There is also much more availability of code and code optimizations ( SSE ,SSE2 , 3DNow etc) for programmers to jump straight over and utilize these with amigaos.  The amiga would not necessarily turn into another *nix or doze platform cos we could learn from there bloated mistakes.  We could also learn to integrate succesfull ideas like WineX on linux so amigans could have the latest games without having the rest of the other two bloated os's tagging below.
 

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2003, 03:18:12 PM »
Quote
Win311 took ~6 seconds to finish loading from the moment I hit enter on win.com.


And just how long did it take to get through the POST test and the rest of the BIOS chuff that goes on, and then to boot DOS 6 up and all it's memory drivers and so forth?  I'd guess another 30 seconds at least.
 

Offline downix

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2003, 03:51:43 PM »
@rodger_ramjet

Ok, thanks for the clarification!

PowerPC was chosen for a few reasons:

1)  Availibility of 68k to PowerPC porting tools (originally for Mac,
but easily adapted for the Amiga)

2) Bus design is similar, allowing for PowerPC accelerator cards for
legacy machines (again, the reason for this was due to the Macintosh,
to allow Apple to make new machines quicker)

3)  Familiarity of coders with the work needed to port 68k to PowerPC.
 (yet another thing inherited from Apple's identical move)

4)  Ease of creating emulators to execute 68k code on the PowerPC
(bingo, Apple again)

So, in short, the decision was made because Apple did it, which paved
the way to simplify the work for the Amiga.  The tools, design
knowledge needed, etc were all created for the Macintosh transition,
which then Amiga could take advantage of for low-cost.  To port the
system to x86, even a limited setup, would have required a whole new
batch of tools and training developers from scratch.  Cost much more
in the short turn with the same chance of failure with either route.


Some people can proclaim cost savings with x86, but that's only with 1
component, the motherboard.  Otherwise, these systems are the same,
same video cards, same networking cards, same hard drives, etc.

So you're not gaining much from this x86 plan, but instead gaining
huge debts in the development cycle while reducing your ability to
make money in the longer term...

No thank you, I think PPC is the way to go.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline elendil

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Re: amigaone cpu ??
« Reply #44 from previous page: May 12, 2003, 03:58:04 PM »
KennyR wrote:
Quote
Every app I click on is loaded almost the moment I let go of the mouse button.


Heh, here too, as long as I hold the mouse button for a short while :-)

Sorry, unconstructive, but could not resist :)

Sincerely,

-Kenneth Straarup.

PS: It sounds very cool, but I thought MOS had JIT? If it is not needed, then who cares, but I just thought I had heard that somewhere.