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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Acill on March 30, 2018, 02:01:45 AM

Title: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on March 30, 2018, 02:01:45 AM
I've started a Go Fund Me campaign for getting the 4000 (NON-CR) Rev B reverse engineered. All project files will be open and public. The cost for this being done by a US company is not cheap but also very fair for what we get in return. Please take a look at the page here and help if you can!

https://www.gofundme.com/amiga-4000-replica-with-schematics
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on March 30, 2018, 02:58:27 AM
Donated! :D
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: midway on March 30, 2018, 03:11:22 AM
That sounds cool.

Did you see this? Someone already did this.

http://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=73426 (http://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=73426)
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on March 30, 2018, 03:37:16 AM
Quote from: midway;838039
That sounds cool.

Did you see this? Someone already did this.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73426


Not the same project and not released public. Its like the AmyITX and seems to be very exclusive.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: QuikSanz on March 30, 2018, 03:43:31 AM
Quote from: Acill;838040
Not the same project and not released public. Its like the AmyITX and seems to be very exclusive.


And yours is a non CR project.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: hese7 on March 30, 2018, 04:10:45 PM
Quote from: Acill;838040
Not the same project and not released public. Its like the AmyITX and seems to be very exclusive.

What made you jump to that conclusion? It will be released to the public.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Iggy on March 30, 2018, 04:43:51 PM
Quote from: hese7;838048
What made you jump to that conclusion? It will be released to the public.

Personally I'd like to see something more advanced, like an ATX form factor board with PCI slots replacing the ISA slots.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on March 31, 2018, 01:23:06 AM
Quote from: hese7;838048
What made you jump to that conclusion? It will be released to the public.


If it is that's great. My goal is for the older board. If funded we will have access to both boards as new and will be an amazing thing to offer.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: hirschma on March 31, 2018, 04:40:02 AM
While the effort is admirable, the fact that PADS is being used is problematic to me. it is very high-end software, which very few people have access to.

Porting between EDA packages is a pretty dicey proposition - errors are often introduced, layouts munged, etc.

I think that the effort would be tremendously more interesting, valuable, and would get more support if it was done in KiCad. There would never be a question of anyone being able to access the information. Eagle doesn't achieve that, especially as Autodesk is closing that package off (and a board that size, and with the likely stackup, isn't going to load into "free" Eagle anyways).

My $.02
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Djole on March 31, 2018, 06:51:07 AM
I dont get it, shouldnt we fund the guy who already has done this or did he just spark the idea to rise some money? But great initiative  anyway.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: RobertB on March 31, 2018, 07:27:44 AM
Just donated a few minutes ago!

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan
June 9-19 Pacific Commodore Expo NW 2018 - http://www.portcommodore.com/pacommex
Aug. 11-12 Commodore Vegas Expo v14 2018 - http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Kronos on March 31, 2018, 10:24:41 AM
I don't see the point in it as most leftover chips needed for these boards have already been used up for the A4000T repro a few years back (and even then some chips were already out of stock).

Ripping them from old board may be an option if those are truly dead, but considering the amount of repair that can be done one these that would be a very limited number so we might even end up with less working A4000s in the end.

Same reason why the A500RED was a limited edition.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: kolla on March 31, 2018, 11:02:00 AM
Quote from: Djole;838069
I dont get it, shouldnt we fund the guy who already has done this or did he just spark the idea to rise some money? But great initiative  anyway.


That was the 4000CR board, the cost recuced last revision D of the A4000, with onboard 68EC030 (which afaik doesn't do zorro3 cards without CPU upgrade). This is something entirely different, this is the "real" A4000 motherboard.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: adonay on March 31, 2018, 12:20:34 PM
Quote from: Djole;838069
I dont get it, shouldnt we fund the guy who already has done this or did he just spark the idea to rise some money? But great initiative  anyway.


I agree.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: cgutjahr on March 31, 2018, 12:29:29 PM
We're living in a post-Timberwolf world, so whe should make sure crowdfunding descriptions do not leave much room for interpretation.

This particular description needs to be updated to include the format in which the files will be released (as somebody already mentioned, this is an important issue) and which license will be used for the release.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Vlabguy1 on March 31, 2018, 03:43:05 PM
Quote from: Acill;838034
I've started a Go Fund Me campaign for getting the 4000 (NON-CR) Rev B reverse engineered. All project files will be open and public. The cost for this being done by a US company is not cheap but also very fair for what we get in return. Please take a look at the page here and help if you can!

https://www.gofundme.com/amiga-4000-replica-with-schematics


So this is just for the “schematic” for the board?  Ok I think it’s cool but aren’t there enough A4000’s out there?  You still need all dem chips etc. Perhaps I am missing something, lol.

Rich
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on March 31, 2018, 06:36:51 PM
Quote from: Vlabguy1;838083
but aren’t there enough A4000’s out there?

Clearly there's too many.  How 'bout you give me one or two of yours?  While you're at it, have any classic cars you feel like giving away?  :lol:
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on March 31, 2018, 06:54:59 PM
The Rev B is the most common board. I fix rotten 4000 boards all the time and its a pain in the ass. I wanted new boards and so do a lot of others. If you are looking for a new machine made from this its the wrong thing for you. Its entire point is to have new boards for repairing old dead ones. The other project is for the CR and is a much rarer board. It does no good for those looking to get a repair done on a Rev 2. This also will be fully public and all files released as well. The last thing was i had to give up my good 4000 for this and have it reverse engineered, so as far as being a money grab I lost money, not gained any.

As far as getting money, did you look at my go fund me I have the invoice right on it show exactly what it will cost and what is delivered. This included CAD files, schematics, gerbers and manufacturing data all needed for the production of new boards.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on March 31, 2018, 06:57:51 PM
Quote from: hirschma;838067
While the effort is admirable, the fact that PADS is being used is problematic to me. it is very high-end software, which very few people have access to.

Porting between EDA packages is a pretty dicey proposition - errors are often introduced, layouts munged, etc.

I think that the effort would be tremendously more interesting, valuable, and would get more support if it was done in KiCad. There would never be a question of anyone being able to access the information. Eagle doesn't achieve that, especially as Autodesk is closing that package off (and a board that size, and with the likely stackup, isn't going to load into "free" Eagle anyways).

My $.02


Yeah, i am using a very high end professional design company to do this. If your interested in a hobby level one you can take advantage of the Henes project. The ability to convert to Altium and maybe Eagle is there once done. I have been ensured I can get Altium exports done. The entire point of this is for new PERFECT boards done on very high level precision equipment. The fact I was able to get it done for only $5k is a huge perk and an amazing deal. If you look into what this can cost to have a professional board lay out done you will see its 10's of thousands usually.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: kolla on March 31, 2018, 07:23:13 PM
I don't have any certain info on this, but I think a lot of the Model D A4000CR systems went not so much to end users, but rather to companies like SCALA, for kiosk systems etc.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: tonyvdb on March 31, 2018, 07:31:13 PM
I think this is a very good idea and will be donating. I've managed to keep my 4000 running but wonder when it will finally give up on me. Having an option like this available will save a lot of agrivation for many.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: TribbleSmasher on March 31, 2018, 09:57:59 PM
Have you seen this yet?
https://github.com/scratje/a4000
This is created from the amigapcb.org data.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on April 01, 2018, 04:03:16 AM
Quote from: TribbleSmasher;838100
Have you seen this yet?
https://github.com/scratje/a4000
This is created from the amigapcb.org data.


He released that to help, but it's not accurate enough to use for boards, it's helped a lot with getting started though.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: nicholas on April 01, 2018, 11:50:59 AM
Quote from: Iggy;838049
Personally I'd like to see something more advanced, like an ATX form factor board with PCI slots replacing the ISA slots.


With an FPGA CPU :)
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: kolla on April 01, 2018, 12:31:00 PM
Quote from: nicholas;838122
With an FPGA CPU :)


If you want a FPGA system with PCI slots, then you may just as well look outside the Amiga realms. Quite frankly I don't quite get what the PCI is for, there isn't much one can do with PCI that one cannot do with USB, except perhaps graphics, but then you may very well be better off with graphics in the FPGA. So, essentially a Vampier V4, or any other FPGA board around :)
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on April 01, 2018, 02:21:34 PM
Quote from: kolla;838123
Quite frankly I don't quite get what the PCI is for


Personally I would love to build an A4000D with Mediator and Radeon someday. That would be the perfect mix of "old + new" for me. But obviously other folks prefer different. :lol:
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: mechy on April 01, 2018, 04:09:38 PM
donated!
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: madgrizzle on April 02, 2018, 01:15:51 PM
What do you think the production cost of the boards will be?
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: AltRN8 on April 02, 2018, 11:02:13 PM
This is such a great project idea. Just donated!
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: AmigaGTI on April 04, 2018, 05:41:55 PM
Great Idea. I think it is a good to make replacement boards. I have 3 brocken A4000D Boards here and it  would be great to make some new Amiga Boards with the parts.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on April 05, 2018, 01:41:29 AM
Quote from: Vlabguy1;838083
but aren't there enough A4000's out there?

Quote from: AmigaGTI;838245
I have 3 broken A4000D Boards here and it would be great to make some new Amiga Boards with the parts.

Sounds to me like you guys need to meet up.  :laughing:
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on April 05, 2018, 04:46:11 AM
Quote from: madgrizzle;838152
What do you think the production cost of the boards will be?


Depends on where you go, how many you get and the quantity you get. Once this is completed I fully plan to order several of them. I will make the option to do a group buy before I do it though so those wanting only a single board will be able to get one at a fair price. I expect from $50-100 each.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: adonay on April 05, 2018, 01:48:00 PM
Quote from: Acill;838261
Depends on where you go, how many you get and the quantity you get. Once this is completed I fully plan to order several of them. I will make the option to do a group buy before I do it though so those wanting only a single board will be able to get one at a fair price. I expect from $50-100 each.



Are we still able to source all the surface components these days and even if we could i guess building one from scratch would be a difficult rask .
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on April 05, 2018, 02:35:05 PM
Quote from: adonay;838264
Are we still able to source all the surface components these days and even if we could i guess building one from scratch would be a difficult rask .

I have help getting a BOM together, and yes its all available still. Some of it is a bit tricky to get, but not impossible.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on April 05, 2018, 02:35:36 PM
Amiga on the Lake has generously agreed to help us get this last bit of funding a bit easier for those that want to use PayPal for a donation. If you would like to donate but only have PayPal to use you can donate here and they will in return donate on your behalf to the campaign. Thanks so much to Aaron Smith for helping to offer this!

The donation link is here: http://amigaonthelake.com/aotl-donations/
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Vlabguy1 on April 05, 2018, 03:03:35 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;838259
Sounds to me like you guys need to meet up.  :laughing:


I agree.  I’ll be glad to take the “broken” boards... :)
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on April 09, 2018, 03:50:36 AM
Good news! I will be going to the shop on Wednesday to make the initial payment and have work started! The goal is to have the board work done and complete in 4 to 6 weeks. The goal is to recreate the entire design. They will provide everything they create, including the PADS and Altium design databases.

The donate page can be found here: https://www.gofundme.com/amiga-4000-replica-with-schematics

Also dont forget you can have Amiga on the Lake donate for you if you want to use paypal and dont have a card supported here. http://amigaonthelake.com/aotl-donations/
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: RobertB on April 09, 2018, 04:04:12 AM
Quote from: Acill;838357
Good news! I will be going to the shop on Wednesday to make the initial payment and have work started!
Nice!
Quote
The donate page can be found here: https://www.gofundme.com/amiga-4000-replica-with-schematics

I see that you are at 75% of your goal.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan
June 9-19 Pacific Commodore Expo NW 2018 - http://www.portcommodore.com/pacommex
Aug. 11-12 Commodore Vegas Expo v14 2018 - http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on April 13, 2018, 11:09:10 PM
https://www.gofundme.com/amiga-4000-replica-with-schematics



Today is a amazing update day for this project! I am happy to say that I put in the remaining balance myself to get things moving at the PCB design house. They have the original board to use, all the required information and the most important thing, they got paid! What this means is things have STARTED!!!!!!

The delivery items to us are even better now thanks to the significant speed at which we paid them, and the extra work I did to supply as much as possible to help with the creation of everything. So what will we get you may ask? Well EVERYTHING!!! The project databases in Altium, PADs and hold on......EAGLE!!!! All Gerber's, new matching schematics that go with the new layout done in tandem, BOM sheets, manufacturing guides, and things I missed I am sure. So this will allow us to not only get NEW BOARDS, but once I ahve it all organized and hosted someone can take these design files and improve on it or whatever you need!

I want to thank everyone that helped make this possible. It has been a lot of stress, work and back and forth communication with the design house, but I think in the end it will be an amazing achievement! This is a real first at this level for ANY Amiga community project and you should all be very proud! I know I am.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: SACC-guy on April 14, 2018, 12:34:49 AM
Excellent!
Great job.
I had wanted a NEW 4000D motherboard for so long.

Thanks for working so hard to achieve this!
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: jagoche on April 15, 2018, 02:52:34 AM
Thanks Acill for starting this project. Donation sent!

My A4000 is still running well. Recently I was advised to recap the board to avoid possible leaking risk.

I wonder...

Does it make sense (financially) to recap my old A4000 board? Or is it better to wait that new A4000 boards are produced at some point?

If I understand well these will be empty boards... In this case would it be possible to "move" all chips from an old to new board?

Thanks for your replies.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: amiadudeorwat on April 15, 2018, 03:53:39 AM
If your board is running well you should just recap it at a cost of something like $50USD.  I can't imagine that someone would move all the chips from an old board to a new one at less than $150.  But why would you do this if your old board is working fine?  If anything the act of moving the chips is more likely to damage a component and incur further costs of replacement.  

There are not that many Amiga custom chips left in the world and I imagine a newly produced A4000 motherboard with Acill's reproduction would cost at least $300USD.  

If later some improvements whatever-they-might-be are integrated into the design then perhaps then you would consider moving the components from an old board to a new one.  

 
Quote from: jagoche;838507
Thanks Acill for starting this project. Donation sent!

My A4000 is still running well. Recently I was advised to recap the board to avoid possible leaking risk.

I wonder...

Does it make sense (financially) to recap my old A4000 board? Or is it better to wait that new A4000 boards are produced at some point?

If I understand well these will be empty boards... In this case would it be possible to "move" all chips from an old to new board?

Thanks for your replies.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Chucky on April 15, 2018, 09:16:40 AM
Quote from: jagoche;838507
Thanks Acill for starting this project. Donation sent!

My A4000 is still running well. Recently I was advised to recap the board to avoid possible leaking risk.

I wonder...

Does it make sense (financially) to recap my old A4000 board? Or is it better to wait that new A4000 boards are produced at some point?

If I understand well these will be empty boards... In this case would it be possible to "move" all chips from an old to new board?

Thanks for your replies.



recap of an amiga aprox $50    moving components from an old board to a new and new passive components (like caps) will be like $200-300 as it will be hours of work

so:  recap
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: jagoche on April 16, 2018, 02:47:00 PM
Many thanks to both for your advice.

Which recap service in Europe do you recommend?
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Chucky on April 16, 2018, 05:40:37 PM
Quote from: jagoche;838548
Many thanks to both for your advice.

Which recap service in Europe do you recommend?


I do it for 45eur.. :)
there are others aswell
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: thebajaguy on April 17, 2018, 12:29:45 AM
Paul is away for the week (or so) on work, and disconnected from the Internet for that period.  The full goal is $90US away from completion as I post this.  

I'm only causing the bump, and making the comment, because the overall funding effort will result in him paying taxes on the funded money (which is factored into the goal), and helping him cover that is still important.

Thanks to all who have been able to put something in, be it small or much more.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: spaceman88 on April 17, 2018, 08:40:39 PM
Just reached $5000!!
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on April 23, 2018, 04:39:53 AM
Initial Github built. Nothing newly created added just yet, but will be adding things as they are released. Any help with this is greatly appreciated.

https://github.com/Acill/A4000RevB
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Jeff on April 23, 2018, 05:25:35 AM
Congratulations on getting the project funded!
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Bodie on May 05, 2018, 03:24:04 AM
I know the campaign got funded already, but just donated an extra few bob. Excellent initiative!
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on July 28, 2018, 11:57:02 PM
Things have gone very well with the project! For those that have been following it on other forums while this one has been offline, you know its funded and the first prototype boards are in my possession. A couple of us will be building them up over the next couple weeks and test the board. Once its complete and we know they are working I will be posting the remaining files. You can currently get everything you need off the GitHub that's been created except pre-generated Gerbers. Those will come after this last functional testing.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on September 02, 2018, 04:42:38 AM
For those that didn't know here is the project page. Everything is posted up and it's the single source for those looking. I also have a few boards in red left from my last run.

https://github.com/Acill/A4000RevB
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on September 02, 2018, 04:45:45 AM
(https://github.com/Acill/A4000RevB/blob/master/Images/4000Dred.jpg?raw=true)
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: mechy on September 02, 2018, 06:27:19 PM
is there a BOM for the passives and ttl parts from mouser or digikey yet?
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: kirk_m on September 03, 2018, 01:46:27 AM
Like a project/pre-made cart at Mouser?  The problem with that is (like the Alice A4000+ board, which purchased and am currently building) that the components go in and out of stock rather frequently (due to the worldwide components shortage, thanks to the automotive industry and all the fancy unneeded crap they add to cars now), with very long lead times to be restocked.  I experienced this myself ... Hese made the mouser cart, I waited to receive my board in the que, then, by the time I received it, and the email with the cart (and the jedecs for the GALs), a huge number of parts were out of stock, and weren't to return to stock until Feb 2019.   I spent the better part of 2 hours searching on mouser for identical spec'd components from different manufacturers.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on September 03, 2018, 02:15:49 AM
Yup, use the BOM on the GitHub main page and just search for them.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: SHADES on September 03, 2018, 10:18:28 AM
If you are going to do a rebuild for a 4000, why not improve it a bit.
PCI allows access to a plethora of add-on cards and expansion ability that, yes, will require drivers, however, at least it is there.
Buffered serial to go past 56k using standard 16550 chips would be great, or a USB 2/3 stack to use plugin serial as a replacement instead.
Oh, and how about a real HDD controller that's not in PIO mode. Well, with PCI, you could always plug one in with a cheap card I suppose. Just need drivers.
A FPGA unit would be fantastic also, hooked to a clock port or something?
The original hardware was so limited by the start of the spiral down and people were waiting with baited breath on a hardware refresh with AAA for so many years and nothing was done.
Could be a real opportunity to do something really different and in the AMIGA spirit.
Besides, aren't the chips no longer made? CIA etc??
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: kirk_m on September 03, 2018, 08:41:06 PM
The intention here is not to make new Amigas for people to build (although some are doing just that), but, rather to repair damaged/dead boards that were killed by leaky caps and batteries (which is what Acill does, and most of them are so badly damaged it isn't even worth the time or the money to be spent repairing them by reworking traces, etc.).   And, yes, the custom chips are no longer made...hence salvaging them off dead boards is the intent.  The passives can all be bought new from Mouser, DigiKey, etc.    Additional new features can be added by whomever takes the time to do it, as the files are all open sourced.  Just download them and redesign them to your liking.   Hese on Amibay has a prototype of an ATX form factor board, and, is implementing suggestions from users for features that will actually fit on the board without making it more than 4 layers to achieve.  Maybe make a login there and jump on that thread.
Title: Re: Help Fund The A4000 Replica Project
Post by: Acill on September 03, 2018, 11:45:09 PM
Anyone is more than welcome to update my design in any way the wish. I made it open just for that exact reason. This board is better in every way over the original though. Better routing, gold plated and red, come on it RED!