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Author Topic: AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement  (Read 12684 times)

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Offline blakespot

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Re: AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement
« Reply #89 from previous page: January 09, 2016, 01:10:33 AM »
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;801663
You have to remember, CD32(and A1200, basically same systems) were selling like crazy on most important Amiga markets in Europe at the time - and with a further 100$ price cut would continue to sell even with next gen consoles coming.

PA-RISC, especially 2.0 version(64 bit, MAX-2 SIMD extensions, 32 bit options also had earlier MAX-1 SIMD in 7100LC and 7300LC CPUs ) was a helleuva CPU, compared even with fastest PPC, Pentium Pro, Alpha and MIPS CPUs - too bad it was not meant to be.


Was the PA-RISC to be the core CPU or to be a slave handling graphics. I read it as the latter, years ago -- but I may be mistaken.

I do know the 7100LC in my HP-9000 712/100 lets me run NeXTSTEP with performance that runs rings around my NeXTstation Turbo Color (33MHz '040). Some media on that, if quick and dirty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MVnKRT3jw0&feature=youtu.be

HP: https://vine.co/v/iaaY7H5Bij3

NeXTstation: https://vine.co/v/iaaVK7n0bbD


bp
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Offline psxphill

Re: AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement
« Reply #90 on: January 09, 2016, 01:47:28 AM »
Quote from: blakespot;801783
Was the PA-RISC to be the core CPU or to be a slave handling graphics. I read it as the latter, years ago -- but I may be mistaken.

It was the core CPU of the console. They mentioned putting the console chipset on a card, where the PA-RISC would just be a coprocessor for graphics. I'm not convinced it would have happened if commodore had survived, unless they could have beaten other graphics card manufactures on performance and price. Then maybe we'd have seen Hombre graphics cards for PC's.

It's difficult to know as Hombre was mostly just a wish list for what they were aiming for. It was likely two to three years away from completion and not much had been decided.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 01:57:32 AM by psxphill »
 

Offline kamelito

Re: AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement
« Reply #91 on: January 09, 2016, 12:42:59 PM »
Quote from: blakespot;801783
Was the PA-RISC to be the core CPU or to be a slave handling graphics. I read it as the latter, years ago -- but I may be mistaken.

I do know the 7100LC in my HP-9000 712/100 lets me run NeXTSTEP with performance that runs rings around my NeXTstation Turbo Color (33MHz '040). Some media on that, if quick and dirty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MVnKRT3jw0&feature=youtu.be

HP: https://vine.co/v/iaaY7H5Bij3

NeXTstation: https://vine.co/v/iaaVK7n0bbD


bp


Faster and smoother on the HP, do you know what is the fastest computer able to run NextStep? Too bad OSX do not have an NextStep skin.
Kamelito
 

Offline blakespot

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Re: AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement
« Reply #92 on: January 09, 2016, 04:11:32 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;801786
It was the core CPU of the console. They mentioned putting the console chipset on a card, where the PA-RISC would just be a coprocessor for graphics.

Huh?
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Offline blakespot

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Re: AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement
« Reply #93 on: January 09, 2016, 04:13:14 PM »
Quote from: kamelito;801805
Faster and smoother on the HP, do you know what is the fastest computer able to run NextStep? Too bad OSX do not have an NextStep skin.
Kamelito

Definitely the fastest way to run NEXTSTEP is on Intel. You can run it on a VM in modern systems and it flies. I do this, but I prefer running on legacy hardware as it has more personality.
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Offline Trev

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Re: AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement
« Reply #94 on: January 13, 2016, 05:01:04 PM »
I've been out of the scene for a while. What fun. There are bits of this that would be lovely to have open for hardware and system hackers, e.g. the bootstrap code. The Kickstart and Workbench bits are cool, but someone already maintains the code. I'd like to see other operating systems running on m68k hardware without riding on Kickstart.
 

Offline nicholas

Re: AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement
« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2016, 02:44:13 AM »
Quote from: kamelito;801805
Faster and smoother on the HP, do you know what is the fastest computer able to run NextStep? Too bad OSX do not have an NextStep skin.
Kamelito


Take your fastest machine and give it a try. :)

https://sites.google.com/site/benvirtualbox/home/nextstep
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Offline olsen

Re: AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement
« Reply #96 on: January 14, 2016, 12:20:35 PM »
Quote from: blakespot;801811
Definitely the fastest way to run NEXTSTEP is on Intel. You can run it on a VM in modern systems and it flies. I do this, but I prefer running on legacy hardware as it has more personality.
Funny to find a NEXTSTEP discussion in this thread ;)

I'm curious, I still have a NeXTstation (not the turbo version) in storage, and at least ten years ago I had it patched up and in good working condition.

The NeXTSTEP 3.3 CD-ROM (back from the days when there was still the lower case 'e' in the name) and boot/driver disks are still in good condition, too.

How would you make that run in a virtual machine on Intel today (say, VMware)?

As the years went by, I tried it with every virtualization solution that came around, but I stopped doing so a few years back. The kernel always panicked during initialization.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 12:44:52 PM by olsen »
 

Offline TheMagicM

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Re: AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement
« Reply #97 on: January 14, 2016, 12:54:02 PM »
Quote from: blakespot;801811
Definitely the fastest way to run NEXTSTEP is on Intel. You can run it on a VM in modern systems and it flies. I do this, but I prefer running on legacy hardware as it has more personality.


wow..never knew I could run Nextstep on a VM.  Just downloaded 3.3 and will try it out.
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Offline psxphill

Re: AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement
« Reply #98 on: January 14, 2016, 03:12:58 PM »
Quote from: blakespot;801810
Huh?

Maybe a copy and paste from Wikipedia will make more sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Hombre_chipset


Hombre is a RISC chipset for the Amiga designed by Commodore, intended as the basis of its next generation game machine called CD64.

Commodore also planned to build a 3D accelerator PCI card based on Hombre. Hombre was canceled along with the bankruptcy of Commodore International.

"In 1993, Commodore International ceased the development of the AAA chipset and began to design a new 64-bit 3D graphics chipset based on Hewlett-Packard's PA-RISC architecture to serve as the new basis of the Amiga personal computer series. It was codenamed Hombre (pronounced "ómbre" which means man in Spanish) and was developed in conjunction with over an estimated eighteen-month period.

Hombre is based around two chips: a System Controller chip and a Display Controller chip."

"The System Controller chip was designed by Dr. Ed Hepler, well known as the designer of the AAA Andrea chip. The chip is similar in principle to the chip bus controller found in Agnus, Alice, and Andrea of the Amiga chipsets. The chip features the following:
A 100+ MHz PA-7150 SIMD microprocessor
An advanced DMA engine and blitter with 3D texture mapping and gouraud shading
16-bit resolution sound processor with eight voices"

"The Display Controller Chip was designed by Tim McDonald, also known as the designer of the AAA Monica chip. It is similar in principle to the Denise, Lisa, and Monica chips found on original Amigas. In addition, the chipset also supported future official or third party upgrades through extension for an external PA-RISC processor.

These chips and some other circuitry would be part of a PCI card, through the ReTargetable Graphics system."


The PA-7150 would therefore be the main cpu in the "CD64", or mostly used for driving the graphics hardware when used on a PCI card.

My guess is that even the proposed 3d workstation would have been sold with only the PA-7150 for a cpu, although it seems likely that you could add another cpu as well.

IMO If commodore had survived then it's more likely a system with 68060, AGA and tseng labs graphics card (IIRC) and using PCI as well as/instead of zorro would have been what they actually released as Dave Haynie was tinkering with that and commodore historically only ship things based off skunk work projects (and if other things do ship then they stink).

It's a pity the February 1991 proposal to switch AA to 1 micron CMOS and implement 16/32 bit chunky modes with 4x memory bandwidth and 2x floppy bandwidth, was passed on. Probably because it would have made AAA irrelevant. The proposal appears to have been recycled as AA+ in 1992. http://www.ebay.it/itm/Commodore-Futures-Memo-HaynieMovingSale-055-/131445199320
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 10:31:52 AM by psxphill »
 

Offline 7valleys

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Re: AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement
« Reply #99 on: January 15, 2016, 07:47:21 AM »
Apparently it's called "amiga os source code 3.1.tar.bz2"