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AuthorTopic: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4  (Read 37810 times)

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Offline Iggy

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #390 on: August 29, 2017, 12:15:07 PM »
Quote from: Rotzloeffel;830204
That´s what I said.... no FPU no grazy things :) same with MMU...

If these applications you mentioned above are "grazy Things" for you, it is OK....

For me, the 68080 is the fastest available 68k CPU... why not use it for existing grazy 68k applications WITHOUT limits ?


WTF is a 'grazy' thing?
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline David Wright

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #391 on: August 29, 2017, 01:53:54 PM »
Crazy x2.
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #392 on: August 29, 2017, 02:47:09 PM »
Quote from: David Wright;830210
Crazy x2.


OK...and how are apps that require an mmu or an fpu crazy X2?
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline David Wright

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #393 on: August 29, 2017, 04:31:30 PM »
No, I am saying my interpretation of grazy must mean crazy times two.
I want fpu and mmu.
 

Offline kolla

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #394 on: August 29, 2017, 05:47:50 PM »
"V4 will of course have 68882 compatible FPU."
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #395 on: August 30, 2017, 05:59:46 PM »
Quote from: kolla;830222
"V4 will of course have 68882 compatible FPU."


Source for that quote?
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Niding

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #396 on: August 30, 2017, 06:31:16 PM »
http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=4¬e=5931&order=&x=6

Quote

Gunnar von Boehn
(Apollo Team Member)
Posts 2726
29 Aug 2017 16:08

Vojin Vidanovic wrote:

Rod March wrote:
  Not looking for a promise, just an indication if it's even on the cards?
   

   
    I am not part of the team, but ...
   
  Its likely we will have Apollo FPU that might be used in new apps, likely in V4 Vampires.
  This means that 080 will be able of fast FPU operations with its optimized apps, but no 8882 compatibility there.
    That is my personal understanding of the situation.


Your understanding is all wrong
V4 will of course have 68882 compatible FPU.


Ofcourse, I never know if Gunnar is trolling for lolz, or serious. Time will show :)
 

Offline kolla

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #397 on: August 31, 2017, 01:30:47 AM »
"APOLLO HardFPU is 100% identical to the 68060 FPU from instructions."

Wonder which it really is, not that it matters much.
A little interesting that focus was said to be all on SAGA and not FPU :)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 01:41:30 AM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #398 on: August 31, 2017, 10:13:11 AM »
Quote from: kolla;830252
"APOLLO HardFPU is 100% identical to the 68060 FPU from instructions."
This can mean a lot of things. For example, it could mean "double precision only". This is probably ok for many applications. However, if this is a 68060 FPU, it also means that the transcend functions are missing. This is per se not a problem, there is a known good, known working solution for it. However, if you want to compute a function such as "sin" with double precision, you need some extra precision on top for the internal approximation. The Motorola FPSP uses extended precision internally where necessary, and ensures double precision output.

I do not know how to get a double-precision-precise sin-function without extended precision math. sin() is slow anyhow, so it would not be necessary to have an extra-fast-math for this.

Then again, to be fair, I do not know which Amiga software exactly required this either... I'm probably too much a mathematician here.
 

Offline kolla

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #399 on: August 31, 2017, 12:51:51 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;830261
Then again, to be fair, I do not know which Amiga software exactly required this either...


Maybe virus scanners can be trained to look for such code :roflmao:
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #400 on: August 31, 2017, 02:11:22 PM »
The Atari ST could use an accelerator that doesn't introduce timing issues into the chipset.
And the Vampires built-in MMU remapping ability may prove very useful once someone commits to exploring Vampire use in the ST more thoroughly.

Its also great to see a firm commitment to a Motorola standard FPU implementation.

Maybe we ought to come up with terms/phrases that differentiate between the hidden MMU remapping capabilities and any Motorola layer added later.

And its nice to see the realists and the 'fanbois' more unified behind this project.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 06:18:50 PM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline kolla

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #401 on: August 31, 2017, 03:24:44 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;830264

Its also great to see a firm commitment to a Motorola standard MMU implementation.


???

:confused:
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #402 on: August 31, 2017, 06:17:46 PM »
Quote from: kolla;830266
???

:confused:


Sorry...fpu.

That was confused, wasn't it.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline kolla

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #403 on: August 31, 2017, 09:50:03 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;830274
Sorry...fpu.

That was confused, wasn't it.

Yes, especially since you wrote "remapping", as memory mapping is the job of an MMU :p
Ah, that part was about MMU. See? You threw me off, and brain stopped working :)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Apollo Team announces the Vampire V4
« Reply #404 on: August 31, 2017, 09:58:21 PM »
Quote from: kolla;830285
Yes, especially since you wrote "remapping", as memory mapping is the job of an MMU :p
Ah, that part was about MMU. See? You threw me off, and brain stopped working :)


Obviously, mine was on hold...:lol:

Guess I was still stunned at the announcement that an fpu would be part of the V4.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"