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AuthorTopic: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS  (Read 24558 times)

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Offline WolfToTheMoon

Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #90 on: March 02, 2011, 10:44:40 PM »
Quote from: Daedalus;619088
See, this is the bit I still don't understand. A new, custom OS is great, it means it might actually be Amiga-like in the same way that AROS is... But what software will it run? If it's not based on Linux or something similar, how will it run OpenOffice, Firefox or any of the creativity software the new "Amiga" is supposed to be created for? Or is the CUSA development team going to develop the whole OS *and* port all these huge apps and all their dependencies? If they don't port the apps it'll be in a worse state than AROS is for launch. And that's not going to make them significant money either.

Look at Haiku: Several years in the making, it's only at Alpha 2 release, it has an out-of-date browser which has just been replaced by a newer, sometimes unstable one, and an unusably unstable office suite. I know it's largely a volunteers project, but do CUSA really have the developers to pull that off?

It is a big problem, but it is not impossible to make it run Linux apps out of the box, something like MOS does with the ABox for the Amiga PPC.
 

Offline Daedalus

Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #91 on: March 02, 2011, 11:01:50 PM »
Ummm, so they'll build an emulation of a Linux kernel, X server, desktop etc. in a sandbox with full API pass-throughs to their new OS? Wow, now I'm *really* interested in how they'll manage to write all that from scratch. Or will it be Linux in a virtual machine?

I guess if they keep the applications with their own desktop environment separate from the actual OS desktop it wouldn't be that hard, but then it's more like AmiCygnix than ABox. That'll work (it does on AmigaOS4), but it certainly won't feel integrated or professional doing it that way.
Engineers do it with precision
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Offline WolfToTheMoon

Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #92 on: March 02, 2011, 11:10:56 PM »
Quote from: Daedalus;619100
Ummm, so they'll build an emulation of a Linux kernel, X server, desktop etc. in a sandbox with full API pass-throughs to their new OS? Wow, now I'm *really* interested in how they'll manage to write all that from scratch. Or will it be Linux in a virtual machine?

I guess if they keep the applications with their own desktop environment separate from the actual OS desktop it wouldn't be that hard, but then it's more like AmiCygnix than ABox. That'll work (it does on AmigaOS4), but it certainly won't feel integrated or professional doing it that way.

Mind you, that was just me saying one of the ways of incorporating Linux. It doesn't mean they'll do it that way.

I often find myself wondering one very important question. If it is not better, if it's not offering something new, why bother with reinventing the wheel? Just to be different? ahh... it works for hobby, but not on the serious market.
 

Offline haywirepc

Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #93 on: March 02, 2011, 11:12:11 PM »
All this talk is worthless. It will be ubuntu with a commodore wallpaper and theme. Thats about as innovative as you can expect from them.
 
Move along nothing to see here. We've all seen ubuntu. (snooze)
 
Steven
 

Offline EDanaII

Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #94 on: March 02, 2011, 11:25:12 PM »
Quote from: dammy;619076
IMO, C=USA will not be able to make significant money buy selling Amigas with Linux.  It needs a custom OS that will be different.  C64x can be done with Linux, the OS is not the main draw but the retro games it plays will be it's main sell point


Agreed.

But in order to support the development of a "custom" OS they need a stronger business model than the one they are currently presenting. Sales based on nostalgia isn't going to be enough to drive that kind of development.

Only time will tell...
Ed.
 

Offline Daedalus

Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #95 on: March 02, 2011, 11:28:11 PM »
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;619101

I often find myself wondering one very important question. If it is not better, if it's not offering something new, why bother with reinventing the wheel? Just to be different? ahh... it works for hobby, but not on the serious market.


Yep, that's what many of us have been trying to figure out. Having emulation layers to support non-native software in place of native software isn't better, it isn't new and it certainly won't fly in the serious market. So it looks like: a) it'll just be Linux with a more thorough skinning than the one on the C64x, maybe a new desktop at a push, b) a totally new OS with emulation to replace the lack of native software and modern features, which will be a marketing disaster, or c) CUSA have the funds to bankroll dozens of developers for several years to come up with a genuinely viable OS and ecosystem, and the marketing, support and distribution of it all.

Place your bets now please.
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--
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Offline Darrin

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Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #96 on: March 02, 2011, 11:41:41 PM »
If they're relying on nostalga then they'll be shit out of luck as a FPGA Arcade with Amiga, c64, atari st, arcade machine, etc cores will wipe the floor with anything they can produce.
A2000, A3000, 2 x A1200T, A1200, A4000Tower & Mediator, CD32, VIC-20, C64, C128, C128D, PET 8032, Minimig & ARM, C-One, FPGA Arcade... and AmigaOne X1000.
 

Offline WolfToTheMoon

Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #97 on: March 02, 2011, 11:45:20 PM »
Quote from: Daedalus;619105
Yep, that's what many of us have been trying to figure out. Having emulation layers to support non-native software in place of native software isn't better, it isn't new and it certainly won't fly in the serious market. So it looks like: a) it'll just be Linux with a more thorough skinning than the one on the C64x, maybe a new desktop at a push, b) a totally new OS with emulation to replace the lack of native software and modern features, which will be a marketing disaster, or c) CUSA have the funds to bankroll dozens of developers for several years to come up with a genuinely viable OS and ecosystem, and the marketing, support and distribution of it all.

Place your bets now please.

I wasn't aiming at that... I was more speaking of Linux, more specifically Linux kernel and why would one need to write a new one.

If you go any other route than Linux, then you're bound to end up in a porting hell just like AOS, Syllable, Haiku and similar OSes are doing.
Very few native developments, mostly software ported from Linux/Windows.

In that situation, one musk oneself. Do I really need to invest and make a completely new OS just to run mostly the same apps/games that I'd do on Linux, but more buggy and slower? Obvious answer is obvious.

Naturally, if you're doing it for fun and hobby, why not. I'd do it. If you wanna be serious, UNIX/Linux is what is needed today.

I can't think of any major, successful OS(including desktop and mobile) in recent years that wasn't based on UNIX/Linux or wasn't POSIX, besides Windows. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Offline adz

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Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #98 on: March 02, 2011, 11:49:58 PM »
You know who the real victims are here...The poor legal staff who have to listen to and deal with this bullshit...
 

Offline jorkany

Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #99 on: March 02, 2011, 11:59:25 PM »
Quote from: adz;619109
You know who the real victims are here...The poor legal staff who have to listen to and deal with this bullshit...


Crying in their chardonnay, I feel for them.
 

Offline persia

Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #100 on: March 03, 2011, 12:14:47 AM »
Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;619107
I
In that situation, one musk oneself.


I'd rather not, if it is all the same to you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
 

Offline TheBilgeRat

Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #101 on: March 03, 2011, 12:29:50 AM »
Quote from: persia;619025
And of course Ubuntu itself will always be debian at it's heart.  Linux legacies are long and strong.

Baby steps, Persia...baby steps.  Dammy has a lot on his mind to go looking too deeply at the glorious twists and turns that are linux distributions.
 

Offline AmigaEd

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Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #102 on: March 03, 2011, 12:37:14 AM »
Quote from: EDanaII;619052
And Linux does not an Amiga make.
 

Not really relevant to the topic, but was that quote borrowed from Yoda?
"Pretty soon they will have numbers tattooed on our foreheads." - Jay Miner 1990

La Familia...
A1K - La Primera Dama -1987
A1K - La Princesa- January 2005
A2K - La Reina - February 2005
A2K - Doomy - March 2005
A500 - El Gran Jugador - April 2005
A1200 - La Hermosa Vista - May 2005
A2KHD - El Duro Grande - May 2005
A600 - PrĂ­stino - May 2005
A1200 - El Trueno Grande - July 2005
CDTV - El Misterioso - August 2005
C64 - El Gran Lebowski - August 2005
A3K - October 2010
y mas...
 

Offline EDanaII

Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #103 on: March 03, 2011, 03:22:53 AM »
LOL!

Actually, I was going for Shakespeare. ;)

"To be or to be not. The question that is!"
Ed.
 

Offline dammy

Re: Workbench 5 renamed Commodore OS
« Reply #104 on: March 03, 2011, 03:46:44 AM »
Quote from: EDanaII;619104
Agreed.

But in order to support the development of a "custom" OS they need a stronger business model than the one they are currently presenting. Sales based on nostalgia isn't going to be enough to drive that kind of development.

Only time will tell...


Depends on which line your talking about.  C64x?  Vic series?  Amiga series?  If your talking nostalgia for Amiga series, your quiet correct, there isn't any to tap into for the number of unit sales Barry is looking for.  That will require something more special with excellent marketing.  

For right now, just watch what happens with the C64x as that is the first product line to get the full effort.  Vic and Amiga series will follow afterwards but you should be able to tell how it will all be done using C64x's launch as a benchmark.
Dammy

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