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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: digiflip on June 11, 2011, 08:38:16 PM

Title: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: digiflip on June 11, 2011, 08:38:16 PM
I undersigned wish wikipedia leave Natami Wikipedia page on its database
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Mr_DBUG on June 11, 2011, 08:59:51 PM
I vote to keep it on Wikipedia !
Atleast hold it for a year to get them time to prove availability.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: digiflip on June 11, 2011, 09:25:51 PM
Last I read on Natami was it isnow shipping to developers and will be sold to consumers by end of this year 2011
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: prabmire on June 11, 2011, 09:31:29 PM
I vote to save Natami from wiki
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: koaftder on June 11, 2011, 09:43:16 PM
The natami isn't finished right? So it's like a billion other projects in history that hasn't yet seen the light of day. How is that encyclopedic? Wikipedia isn't a platform for evangelism.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: digiflip on June 11, 2011, 10:07:49 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natami
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Duce on June 11, 2011, 10:18:12 PM
Why would anyone get so uppity about removing it?  Even worst case scenario, assume it'll NEVER ship (I believe it will), there's plenty of other "in the works" or vaporware products with similar wikipedia entries.

I didn't realize that "work in progress" things that are actively being worked on could just be deleted from wikipedia.  :(

Plenty of other well intentioned and planned amiga hardware projects that never did and never will see the light of day with wiki entries...
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Franko on June 11, 2011, 10:21:06 PM
Quote from: digiflip;644299
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natami


Now that it's Wiki page has been updated then surely the miserable gits who want it deleted will bugger off and find something else that doesn't even concern them to moan about... :)
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Zac67 on June 11, 2011, 10:43:40 PM
Does anyone here think Wikipedia cares about a petition? It has its own mechanisms so put a "keep" (or "delete") on the deletion arbitration page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Natami)!
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: amoskodare on June 11, 2011, 11:04:25 PM
Keep it, but guys share your thoughts at this article's entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Natami) on Wikipedia where it count as most.

And related thread:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58103
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Franko on June 11, 2011, 11:14:19 PM
Quote from: Zac67;644306
Does anyone here think Wikipedia cares about a petition? It has its own mechanisms so put a "keep" (or "delete") on the deletion arbitration page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Natami)!


Went there and looked... but I can't find anything that gives you the option to "keep" or "delete".... :confused:
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: ChaosLord on June 11, 2011, 11:59:01 PM
@Franko

Just write '''Keep''' or '''delete''' on the page.

And remember, its a WIKI.  Anyone can, and probably will, change what you have written, even reversing your vote.  I have seen moderators rig the vote to get the results they want, plenty of times.

Wickedpedia is the most rampantly corrupt thing ever.

Cheers :)
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Franko on June 12, 2011, 12:02:24 AM
Quote from: ChaosLord;644314
@Franko

Just write '''Keep''' or '''delete''' on the page.

And remember, its a WIKI.  Anyone can, and probably will, change what you have written, even reversing your vote.  I have seen moderators rig the vote to get the results they want, plenty of times.

Wickedpedia is the most rampantly corrupt thing ever.

Cheers :)


In that case I'll give it a miss... ;)

Never really thought much of those "Wicki" pages anyway... :)
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: XDelusion on June 12, 2011, 12:30:12 AM
Wiki or not, If Natami is gonna be, it will be then it'll have a wiki for sure.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: trekiej on June 12, 2011, 02:05:44 AM
keep
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: XDelusion on June 12, 2011, 02:10:50 AM
Keep or I kill you and the horse you rode in on!
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Franko on June 12, 2011, 02:56:46 AM
TIP to DigiFlip... :)

When making a poll choose the option to show the members names when they vote, makes it more interesting to see who voted for what... ;)
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: gertsy on June 12, 2011, 03:01:26 AM
Keep, the dream alive. Nothing wrong with dreaming.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: SamuraiCrow on June 12, 2011, 03:20:16 AM
Keep.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: commodorejohn on June 12, 2011, 03:55:09 AM
The notability policy is a complete joke, anyway. Separate pages for every episode of The Simpsons are notable, but not a single series page for Arfenhouse, the X1000 is notable because it has coverage from "reliable sources" (i.e. online tech journals whose main function is to parrot press releases) but Natami doesn't, blah blah, the list goes on...
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Franko on June 12, 2011, 03:58:25 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;644358
The notability policy is a complete joke, anyway. Separate pages for every episode of The Simpsons are notable, but not a single series page for Arfenhouse, the X1000 is notable because it has coverage from "reliable sources" (i.e. online tech journals whose main function is to parrot press releases) but Natami doesn't, blah blah, the list goes on...


Must be getting tired (well it is almost 4:am here) but I haven't scooby doo what you just said there... :confused:
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: ChaosLord on June 12, 2011, 04:40:48 AM
What he is saying is that Wikipedia can, and often does, delete real articles about real Amiga products that really exist and are used by real people in the real world because "The Amiga is not notable".

Yet articles about every random fictional TV show starring fictional characters performing fictional deeds in fictional locations, are not allowed to be deleted because they are "notable for being mentioned in the mainstream media".

Any "encyclopedia" that deletes factual information but keeps fictional information is a joke.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Tripitaka on June 12, 2011, 04:59:38 AM
Quote from: ChaosLord;644368
Any "encyclopedia" that deletes factual information but keeps fictional information is a joke.


Well put. That's the trouble with everyone having an equal voice, the idiots can get to shout out the experts. If the moderators did as they should it would work out ok most of the time, sadly, some of them are idiots too so it doesn't. Oh well, wiki article or not, it's not going to effect my purchasing, the Natami is a must have, pure and simple.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: persia on June 12, 2011, 05:23:39 AM
Exactly nobody is not going to buy this because of a wikipedia article.  Given wikipedia's guidelines, it should probably be deleted.  That's not a judgement on NatAmi but rather a practical response based on Wikipedia's stated goals and objectives.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: commodorejohn on June 12, 2011, 05:31:19 AM
Quote from: persia;644371
Exactly nobody is not going to buy this because of a wikipedia article.
This is very true. It's not at all likely to hurt the Natami project, it's just annoying.
Quote
Given wikipedia's guidelines, it should probably be deleted.  That's not a judgement on NatAmi but rather a practical response based on Wikipedia's stated goals and objectives.
However, I'll have to disagree with this. Wikipedia's guidelines are poorly-defined and enforced entirely at the whim of the moderators, very often spurred by someone's personal biases. (That's not to say that this was a judgement on Natami, just that that sort of thing is hardly uncommon.)
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: ChaosLord on June 12, 2011, 05:51:02 AM
Wickedpedia has no rules but mob rule.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: TheBilgeRat on June 12, 2011, 06:39:23 AM
Delete: Not notable, it's one of millions of electronics projects that hasn't even been completed. Wikipedia is not a place for Amiga (or any other kind of) evangelism. Koft (talk) 21:15, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Jakodemus on June 12, 2011, 07:34:29 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOne_X1000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Advanced_Architecture_chipset
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_AA%2B_Chipset
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Hombre_chipset
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Walker
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_A5000

If Natami page is removed I think these pages also should get removed. Just useless information about unreleased systems.

Of course I think that Natami should stay on wikipedia.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: TiredOLife on June 12, 2011, 10:08:41 AM
I voted yes to keep, out of principal more than anything else.
I don't think it really matters.
Wiki isn't the font of all knowledge despite what some people would have you believe.

Assuming the Natami gets released, the word will soon get round the tech sites and such soon  enough.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: hairy on June 12, 2011, 10:23:43 AM
Quote from: Franko;644346
TIP to DigiFlip... :)

When making a poll choose the option to show the members names when they vote, makes it more interesting to see who voted for what... ;)


Oh the drama! All those voodoo dolls might remain unlabeled! :D
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: drHirudo on June 12, 2011, 11:02:49 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;644358
The notability policy is a complete joke, anyway. Separate pages for every episode of The Simpsons are notable, but not a single series page for Arfenhouse, the X1000 is notable because it has coverage from "reliable sources" (i.e. online tech journals whose main function is to parrot press releases) but Natami doesn't, blah blah, the list goes on...

The X1000 was shown working at several public shows (UK/Germany/USA). May be if we show sources of such event presentations of the Natami, they will consider to keep the article?
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Duce on June 12, 2011, 12:10:22 PM
I see the videos the Natami folks have provided of the machine functioning to be as valid of evidence as the demos of the X1000.  :angry:

Thing that puzzles me about people being so uptight about wiki entries is what harm is the Natami entry doing?  Sounds more like someone with opposing views on the project is pissy and has a personal axe to grind, and I find that sad in a small market like what we have here.

The joys of community contributed knowledge bases, I suppose...
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: koaftder on June 12, 2011, 12:21:29 PM
Quote from: drHirudo;644401
The X1000 was shown working at several public shows (UK/Germany/USA). May be if we show sources of such event presentations of the Natami, they will consider to keep the article?


All that has to be done is review the concerns raised in the AfD link in the article and rectify those areas and then the article would be in line with the notability policy. It wouldn't take much, there's probably already enough material out there to make it compliant. Once natami is in users hands this will all be moot anyway.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: koaftder on June 12, 2011, 12:23:58 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;644375
Delete: Not notable, it's one of millions of electronics projects that hasn't even been completed. Wikipedia is not a place for Amiga (or any other kind of) evangelism. Koft (talk) 21:15, 11 June 2011 (UTC)


Yup, that's my vote, and it's because the article doesn't meet the notability requirements. It certainly will when it's finished and everyone is talking about it.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: persia on June 12, 2011, 02:22:30 PM
Probably valid claim about the A-Eon X1000.  It probably should be deleted as well, 250 units, if indeed any ever get made, is clearly in the hobby range.  Heck, when I owned a computer store I put together (or had staff put together) several thousand computers under my brand.  Maybe I need a wiki entry too!

Up until a few years ago the Uni I work for used to by computers from a local shop with their own brand, perhaps they deserve a wiki entry too.

Really if selling or promising to be selling 250 computers under your own brand is a valid criterion for inclusion in Wikipedia, then every corner computer shop that ever existed in Australia should be in Wikipedia!
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: digiflip on June 12, 2011, 02:27:56 PM
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=6¬e=39895

you can't win with these Natami people, I be nice and try see if people care about the wikipedia  page and still they insult me?


aww well back to duke nukem forever
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Duce on June 12, 2011, 03:04:24 PM
Why are they shit talking you when you are trying to mount a campaign to have their project remain in Wikipedia, lol?  I give up with some of these people, it's like herding goddamned cats.

Them hosting their own wiki is sorta weak and undermines the work and effort they have put into the project.  If the project is active, it deserves to be on wikipedia - Natami will be a very important product to the Amiga community if it sees the light of day.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Templario on June 12, 2011, 03:05:40 PM
And NatAmi will has its own host? and easy solution.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: yogisumo on June 13, 2011, 12:07:35 AM
Branded computers would be made from off the shelf parts and would be in the category of IBM pc compatible which anybody could build.

Something like NatAmi is pretty unique although limited in numbers.  There is a difference.

Not that I'm going to lose sleep over a Wikipedia page....

Hope NatAmi lives though.  I'd probably buy one..
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: Daedalus on June 13, 2011, 01:10:21 AM
Quote from: ChaosLord;644368

Yet articles about every random fictional TV show starring fictional characters performing fictional deeds in fictional locations, are not allowed to be deleted because they are "notable for being mentioned in the mainstream media".

Any "encyclopedia" that deletes factual information but keeps fictional information is a joke.


The information on TV shows isn't fictional - the TV show actually exists, and has been seen by millions of people the world over. Read any Wikipedia article on the Simpsons for example, and it will tell you what happened in the episode. That is a fictional storyline with fictional characters, but it's a fact that the episode existed and had that storyline. Your post doesn't make any sense in that regard.

To be honest I'm not so sure Natami should have a page on Wikipedia. As others have pointed out, there are many, many small-scale electronics projects under development in the world, the vast majority of which won't have any impact whatsoever outside a small circle of people who are involved in the project itself, and will never be talked about in mainstream news. The X1000 is, for want of a better phrase, "more serious" than Natami, since it's been demonstrated at several computer shows, and has been talked about in mainstream media. There are a couple of businesses involved, press releases and so on, which add weight to its image as more than a hobby electronics project.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: ChaosLord on June 13, 2011, 02:02:00 AM
"The Simpsons" is a faery tale.

Faery tales do not belong in encyclopedias.

Encyclopedia is for reality.

Wickedpedia actively deletes known useful scientific knowledge from itself every day.

Yet it has 100,000+ articles on fantasy nonsense faerytales and it actively pursues and invites more and more and more faery tale articles.
Title: Re: E-petion Save Natami from wiki deletion
Post by: digiflip on June 26, 2011, 05:50:50 PM
lol wikipedia now says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natami

This article has been tagged for rescue.


if most articles are fairy tales maybe it should be called the index to fairy tales

rofl