New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"

[Iggy]

... Bad: Trapping all the standard PPC FPU instructions and emulation of the standard FPU has major overhead for each trapped instruction but recompiling is not needed...

-
Uh oh.

[Iggy]

With Linux Mplayer SPE binary yes.
regular Linux Mplayer video not working with emulation under powerpc32 .

OK, its a start.
Maybe Hyperion needs your input as recompilation seems to be the best course with this cpu.
Recompiling what can be, and resorting to trapping/emulation as only a secondary method for execution.

[Iggy]

The challenges with developing for the Amiga aren't hardware or software related..

No, you are right, the primary challenge is the limited/small market.

[Iggy]

@Spectre660

So we now now that Linux would outperform Amiga NG solutions (and that MorphOS would outperform OS4).
That we all would have pretty much presumed, but they figure are interesting.

I wonder how a Linux hosted version of AROS would have compared.

[Iggy]

@Spectre660

Interesting.
What causes that much variance?
Is it the differing source files or the settings?

[Iggy]

...why integrate 64-bit processor when  there is no 64-bit support in OS, also why integrate quad core processor  when there is no multicore support in OS. There is no space for unsued  things in low-end product.

...Tabor  is a very-low-end and low-cost AmigaOS4 (I hope also MorphOS) PPC  configuration which is affordable for every Amigan to buy. It is also  very powerfull because its faster that SAM460, dramatically faster if  second core will be soon in use.

Why? Because I want it, and it adds minimal cost.
And there will be uses for these in the future (hey, I'm optimistic).

Faster? Slightly until the fpu issues are factored in.

And while it is dual core..."why integrate quad core processor  when there is no multicore support in OS", so why integrate a dual core.
You do know there are single core T10XX cpus, don't you?

...Of the 3 OS's OS 4.1 currently is the only one that works with any GPU acceleration. ..
But the actual playback under OS 4.1 is degraded because of the slower decoding...

Odd, degraded "because of the slower decoding...", why?
And you make it sound like AROS and MorphOS don't use GPU acceleration at all.
For decoding, true.
But for 2D and 3D graphics acceleration, untrue (although, MorphOS does not to implement that for the Radeon HD cards).

Anyway we now know that this bechmark as used to compare the
X1000 runing AmigaOS 4.1 to G4 Mac's runing MorphOS is not giving a balanced comparison.

Yes, comparing processors with significant differences is tricky.
Also, as MorphOS usual has a slight performance advantage on similar platforms, again, not a fair comparison.

What candy thing am I running ?

I thought everyone was clear that you are working with Linux, not OS4 (where you would find Candi).

[Iggy]

The more time taken by the CPU to decode the video means that it has the remaining time to  do  the display and audio. So if a 60 second clip takes 54 second to just decode you only have 6 seconds to display 60 seconds of video and audio which means that it cant be done in real time.
Thus the reason for this benchmark which does not involve any GPU acceleration .When you actually try to play a 480p MP4 video under OS 4.1 on the Sam460ex it cannot sync the audio and video even in windowed mode with the AmigaOS 4.1FE version of video acceleration with the Radeon HD driver. In Linux it is sync in windowed mode even with no GPU acceleration. On the other hand the same video converted to an xvid avi plays back in full screen mode in perfect sync on the Sam460ex under AmigaOS 4.1FE.Linux cannot do it in fully screen in sync .

Ah, I did not examine those closely enough.
So gPU acceleration is a good thing.
I'm curious as to how Hyperion implemented it.
I thought the primary reason that Linux and MorphOS didn't use it was the difficulty in getting really complete documentation for GPUs themselves.

I mean, when you compare Linux systems that have proprietary drivers supplied by the gpu manufacturers to systems with open drivers you see a big performance hit in the latter.

[Iggy]

The GPU acceleration that he's talking about is the composited video feature of the latest Radeon HD driver.

Yes I know that, it should probably be referred to as something more specific, it kind of blurs that definition too much.

AFAIK, AMD's proprietary drivers work only on x86/x64 systems. Linux on the Sam460ex uses the open-source drivers, and they are definitely lagging behind AMD's proprietary drivers. I think that I managed to get Radeon HD 7xxx series (Southen Islands GPUs) working on AmigaOS before the open-source Linux driver did, and that was also AMD released the docs for the new series. Ironically, I deciphered the new GPU instruction set from the LLVM code in their Work-In-Progress (WIP) Gallium3D driver.
Hans

Damned clever.
Yes, AMD likes to reserve some information for itself.
I think the very idea of open drivers freaks them out a little.

BTW - I am quite impressed with the Radeon HD work.

[Iggy]

Yes, that's it.

No matter what forum its is discussed on this will distill (eventually) to two opinions.
One, "not good, we may be shooting ourselves in the foot here", and...
Two, "we need to wait and see"..
If your in the second camp, good for you!
You are more of an optimist than I am.

But since I have the option of running my OS of choice on a larger array of  hardware than OS4 users, I think I can be more discerning.

One, I can pay for an X5000, and spend more, but get decent hardware, or...
Two, I can wait for PCI-e G5 support when I will have have good hardware at a better price.

Thanks to my friends, I have this choice.

[Iggy]

Any updates when the Tabor will be available yet? Seems it has gone off the radar.

I think they are focused on getting the dual core P5020 based version of the X5000 out the door right now.

If Tabor boards already exist, maybe Aeon ought to consider releasing it to the Linux market.

[Iggy]

I would buy one if it's around the 500€ or less of course :hammer:

 Sure, above that you might experience some buyer's remorse for not buying the more powerful X5000.
 
 And I wouldn't abuse AmigaKit over availability.
 They don't set the release date, and obviously Aeon doesn't want this released without OS4 support.
 
 So it all comes down to waiting for Hyperion.
 And the community ought to be accustomed to waiting on Hyperion by now.

[Iggy]

I hope nobody accidentally sees these posts and thinks these are in any way realistic or actual costs for this hardware.

Seems unlikely to me too.

[Iggy]

Well if you just want to run old games, there are options like RetroPie and MIST.

The Tabor and X5000 are more for people who want to pretend they live in an alternative timeline where everyone uses NG Amigas

Nope, I just want a vacation from my PC hardware occasionally.
And I have legacy hardware if I want to run old games (although I do that primarily with a CD32).

[Iggy]

@iggy/Bean/Jim (why so many names?)(hiding from the fires?)

I myself want a x5000 (see my other thread)
Really want a 5040 (grin)

But would buy a ALICE!

I asked Matt for a password reset on the first account last week, but I guess he forgot.

And you guys ought to know by now that I like controversies.

I don't know about Alice though, I already have laptops.

[Iggy]

PS3 is the Amiga to the Xbox 360's ST.

?!
The processor in the XBOX360 was definitely easier to program for than the PS3's weird Cell BE layout with it satellite spes.
I really don't see your comparison, and besides the PS3 really needed more memory.

Both have in order execution which is kind of lame for a PPC. A 970MP from a PowerMac G5 will eat either of those alive.

[Iggy]

Yeah, xbox 360 was just bog standard like the ST. While Amiga had copper and blitter that needed special coding skills

Amiga needed more memory too, although you could upgrade the ram a lot easier than a PS3.

You can't add memory to the Cell BE, and it uses a very unusual type of memory.
 
 Further, later STs had blitters, and the ST cost a lot less than an Amiga.
 As far as coding skills, using hardware features is hardly a special skill.
 
 As far as the Xbox360 vs the PS3, both are 'bog standard' AND derived from related technology (which come to think of it, makes your ST vs Amiga comparison somewhat relevant).