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Operating System Specific Discussions => MorphOS => MorphOS -- Hardware requirements and availability discussion => Topic started by: XDelusion on July 16, 2012, 11:45:31 PM
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As many of you know, I swear by MorphOS. I just LOVE it!!!!
I had an eMac which died on me, and I have been without MorphOS for months now and was very excited to get back to work on some of my audio projects.
I was one of the few who registered Audio Evolution back before it became free.
Also I was hyped about the upcoming release of DigiBooster 3, not to mention the announcement that HD-Rec was supposed to receive and update.
Well I finally have something to complain about. I will make a long story short and just say that I am now jobless, I have to move, and I do not have time or money to mess around with getting another Mac. I had ordered a Mac Mini, but got an intel instead of a G4, so I returned it and ordered another one as the MorphOS team told me they would transfer the license from my dead eMac (very kind of them).
Well, I finally get my G4 Mac Mini, and I'm all excited about transfering the license, installing my audio software and this and that, but...
Well first off, no one has contact me about my license, but sometimes that takes a while so I'm still working with MorphOS in 30 minute increments. No biggy though, I'm sure they are busy, I can wait a few more hours.
What really ticks me off though is that I come to realize (too late) that Mac, being all artistic and innovative as they are, decided to save a penny and not include a Line-in port.
Go figure!!! I bet all those Gargeband users are just psyched about that!!!
Well OS X users do not have to worry, they can use USB audio devices to resolve this issue, but MorphOS on the other hand, in all it's glory, is no better than AROS, Classic Amiga, or OS 4 when it comes to their USB stack....
Out of all the Alt Amiga OS's I figured that the MorphOS team would have put the USB stack as a priority in their development, after all there is HD-Rec, there are a couple of us who registered Audio Evolution for $75 bucks (if memory serves correctly), and there is soon to be Digi Booster 3 on the way, but hey...
...guess what? If you are a Mac Mini user, you are screwed because no one seemed to think that Trident with all its limitations deserved an update.
What the heck man?!?!?!?
I have always been a major MorphOS supporter, at least since I first fired it up and realized how very advanced it was and how the dev team seemed to have their priorities straight, but this is just a slap in the face.
Just wanted to moan a little, stick a fork in me.
BTW, I am greatful to the MorphOS team to offering to transfer my key rather than charge me more money to support a another machine. And I do still love MorphOS, but this is just a major let down, I don't know why one of the coolest OS's in the world has to neglect such an important feature.
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I don't understand, there are no USB recorders that work with MorphOS, is that what you're complaining about?
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The whole situation.
A: That I first got an intel Mac, had to ship that back, then wait longer for a PPC Mac propper.
This of course has nothing to do with the MorphOS team, but it added to my frustration seeing as I was psyched to replace my dead eMac and take advantage of all the new features of MorphOS 3.1
B: The fact that Apple insists that they are so artistic and innovative. That they sell a piece of software for musicians called Garage Band, and yet....
...with their smallest most space friendly model, which you would think would be perfect for musicians, they fail to include an audio in port. I wonder how much that saved them? 2 cents?!?!
OS X users can of course buy a cheap USB sound card and problem solved, but still that is lame.
C: The fact that the MorphOS team, as good as they seem to be about support and taking care of priorities...
...you know those things that are essential for a modern OS experience....
...seem to have failed to so much as touch Trident and expand upon the USB capabilities.
Everyone knows that there are multiple audio app options for MorphOS, some of those options are commercial or used to be, like the copy of Audio Evolution that I paid for for my old dead eMac, and yet, NOTHING has been done to improve Trident so we can start using USB sound cards. As a matter of fact, to the best of my knowledge, no effort has been put forth to add support for CAMD and USB MIDI devices either.
So for me, that is a major slap in the face. I was eager to use this, but now find that even though MorphOS has updated from version 2.7 to 3.1, that NOTHING has been done to prepare for the Hd-Rec updates, the new release of Digibooster 3 (which is commercial btw), or Audio Evolution, which again I paid for back in the day.
Nope, us Mac Mini users end up with an OS that runs great and does it all, but don't expect to use your basic Audio software to record into your machine because...
...well apparently in a USB world, USB is not a priority.
So far people have told me to dual boot into OS X as a solution, which again I find lame. The idea is to use MoprhOS and MorphOS alone!
Some people have suggested that I sell the Mac Mini and buy a tower, but I have no job, have to move soon, and basically do not have time or money to keep buying new systems, and besides a tower takes up too much space, the Mac Min is perfect in size and would fit in nicely with my recording studio, but again, providig propper support for the apps on one's own OS doe not seem to be a priority.
To think of the things I could do if I could just use a USB audio device like nearly every other OS in the world, but alas, I have to be stuck with a USB system designed for a limited 68k machine. LAME LAME LAME!!!
If I had money I'd start a bounty (I've always donated to bounty's before), but again, I'm between jobs. I was hoping this would just be ready by now and I could use what I paid for. :/
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NOTHING has been done to improve Trident so we can start using USB sound cards.
Ah, so there's your complaint :)
Trying to use MorphOS for music production is a waste of time, you should have kept the Intel mini, and just used UAE for the occational use of Amiga software.
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Ah, so there's your complaint :)
Trying to use MorphOS for music production is a waste of time, you should have kept the Intel mini, and just used UAE for the occational use of Amiga software.
BLASPHEMY!!!!! You speak BLASPHEMY!!! :)
I would use my AROS machine for the job, but you know those Sound Blaster lives that AROS is supposed to support so well?
Well guess what, they only record static when I have them installed on my AROS machine, on my Windows machine they record perfectly. Sad sad sad.
But anyhow, NO UAE! That's just sick man!
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XD, have you considered trying a Firewire Audio Interface like this one from Behringer:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHFCA202
Firewire devices can frequently work without drivers and may "just work" ... for $79.99 it's a small outlay and you can always ask if they'll let you return it if it doesnt work? (seeing as you are in between jobs and all).
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Someone brought those up in MorphOS zone, but when I say I'm between jobs, that means pretty damn broke unfortunatlely. :/
I'd rather that support for my $4.00 Hong Kong USB Sound Card be added instead. It doesn't need drivers either. Works perfectly fine under Windows and OS X, but...
...I don't want to use those OS's. Everything must be Amiga centric!!! :)
XD, have you considered trying a Firewire Audio Interface like this one from Behringer:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHFCA202
Firewire devices can frequently work without drivers and may "just work" ... for $79.99 it's a small outlay and you can always ask if they'll let you return it if it doesnt work? (seeing as you are in between jobs and all).
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Fair enuf, it must be tuff being out of work! I'd be royally screwed (big mortgage, no savings!) :nervous:
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Fair enuf, it must be tuff being out of work! I'd be royally screwed (big mortgage, no savings!) :nervous:
Ya, I could have worse problems...
...I mean I do, but nothing too pressing I guess. I'll survive.
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Do recordings on your phone or whatever and transfer the files to your mac for editing.
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There are always work arounds...
I'm going to have to keep my PeeSea tower in my set up for now. Then later when I get back to work I'll probably just buy a second machine for MorphOS and register a second copy because...
I REALLY wanted to run MoprhOS on a compact Mac MINI, it would have went well amongst all my gear, but now I think in the future I will have a smaller Mac Tower amongst that gear instead. Until then...
It's all Windows for the recording side of things. The upsdie at least is that my Amiga 1200 will still be controlling the MIDI side of things. Half way there... :)
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The whole situation.
B: The fact that Apple insists that they are so artistic and innovative. That they sell a piece of software for musicians called Garage Band, and yet....
...with their smallest most space friendly model, which you would think would be perfect for musicians, they fail to include an audio in port. I wonder how much that saved them? 2 cents?!?!
Why build something in when you can sell an expensive proprietary accessory lead instead.
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Ya no doubt.
Why build something in when you can sell an expensive proprietary accessory lead instead.
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Why build something in when you can sell an expensive proprietary accessory lead instead.
Apple have fixed this omission in the Intel mac Mini's, they now have:
Audio line in minijack (digital/analog)
Audio line out/headphone minijack (digital/analog)
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I noticed that! :)
The Intel Mac that the guy on Ebay shipped me by mistake had one, so I expected this model to have one...
No such luck!!!
I'd take time here to threaten Mr. Job's life, but...
Nature already beat me to it.
May he rest in peace.
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Geez man!!!!
I left off at 2.7, now I am using 3.1 for the first time...
It's seductive. Sure, MorphOS failed us musicians, but MAN, did they really excell in all other areas!
This is NICE!!!! VERY Professional!!!!
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I have been making music with computers since you could. I started with an amiga 500 and protracker.
Eventually, I moved to pc but hated windows. After I found aros I thought thank god, I can move my music production to a sane os.
Problem being, NO amiga os has the tools really necessary to create great music tracks today. Now yes some will argue you have milkytracker or noisetrekkr and so on, but those can not compete with any windows app that uses dx and vsti plug ins, and audio evolution is okay but not exactly pro tools or cubase. After trying for awhile I decided I was just limiting my tools. I couldn't getg my work done,at least not without major work arounds and alot of wasted effort, so much for coming full circle with my music projects...
So I say, leave windows or osx for your music and video production needs, and leave your amiga for everything else.
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It is not helping regarding MorphOS of course but perhaps you can use Aeros
http://www.aeros-os.org/
You could ask Phoenixkonsole regarding what you need for your work
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The whole situation.
A: That I first got an intel Mac, had to ship that back, then wait longer for a PPC Mac propper.
This of course has nothing to do with the MorphOS team, but it added to my frustration seeing as I was psyched to replace my dead eMac and take advantage of all the new features of MorphOS 3.1
B: The fact that Apple insists that they are so artistic and innovative. That they sell a piece of software for musicians called Garage Band, and yet....
...with their smallest most space friendly model, which you would think would be perfect for musicians, they fail to include an audio in port. I wonder how much that saved them? 2 cents?!?!
OS X users can of course buy a cheap USB sound card and problem solved, but still that is lame. :/
So how is all the above MorphOS fault? Surely its Apples?
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Geez man!!!!
I left off at 2.7, now I am using 3.1 for the first time...
It's seductive. Sure, MorphOS failed us musicians, but MAN, did they really excell in all other areas!
This is NICE!!!! VERY Professional!!!!
Really? I upgraded from 2.7 to 3.1 and have not noticed anything new and revolutionary.
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Sound recording is somewhat problematic with amigoid system, mainly because the AHI recording API is quite limited.
MorphOS USB support could always be better of course.
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Thats the same kind of problems I had with AROS, if I just want to edit with a tracker (milky, octamed or noisetrekkr) its fine, so long as I have a huge selection of samples, loops and instruments already loaded on the machine.
The problems come when you want to actually record new samples, vocals, guitars, drumloops, make new instruments or edit a sound already on the system beyond the trackers built in sample editor or instrument editor. I dumped stuff back and forth for a long time and finally just said forget it...
I still occasionally track demos on my aros box but once its a basic track, I have to use windows or linux to do the real work of making it a finished track.
I don't recommend any amigoid system for actual recording anything or editing samples/sound design work, or mastering but perhaps thats just been my experience.
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I'm supposed to be able to record in AROS with my SB Live, but all it produces is noiz and not the good noiz either, just static. :)
Of course everyone else seems to be devoid of these issues.
I have trouble shot everything per AROS-exec, and still nothing.
So far all my best music apps remain on my classic Amiga.
OctaMED SS and HD-Rec.
Anyhow though the MorphOS team did not make Apple's hardware, I do feel that they should put MorphOS' audio, midi, wireless, and USB to the top of their priority list.
I mean if people are developing music software for their OS (audio evolution, hd-Rec, digi booster 3), and people are willing to buy these products (ok two of them are free now) not to mention pay for MorphOS, then the very least the MorphOS team could do would be to make sure that everything is fully supported, hardware, software, and all. Otherwise it's like saying,"we don't care what you write for our OS, we won't help make it work better infect we don't care how much money you put into this, it will be ready when it's ready."
Which reminds me of the AROS motto and not the motto of a commercial product that people are supposed to e convinced to buy.
All in all, the Amiga was always known as a media system, so why aren't next gen Amiga OS' putting media and creativity in the fore front?!?!?
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I have been making music with computers since you could. I started with an amiga 500 and protracker.
Eventually, I moved to pc but hated windows. After I found aros I thought thank god, I can move my music production to a sane os.
Problem being, NO amiga os has the tools really necessary to create great music tracks today. Now yes some will argue you have milkytracker or noisetrekkr and so on, but those can not compete with any windows app that uses dx and vsti plug ins, and audio evolution is okay but not exactly pro tools or cubase. After trying for awhile I decided I was just limiting my tools. I couldn't getg my work done,at least not without major work arounds and alot of wasted effort, so much for coming full circle with my music projects...
So I say, leave windows or osx for your music and video production needs, and leave your amiga for everything else.
I'd rather use an ST than PC :laugh1:
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So far all my best music apps remain on my classic Amiga.
OctaMED SS and HD-Rec.
Seriously, have you tried using the Maestrix on your MorphOS system? It might be all you need to get OctaMED SS working. It works perfectly well on my equally classic-harwareless A1 with said utility.
I'd be interested to know the results.
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Yep, unlike OS 4 it crashes the system. I brought this up to the MorohOS guys before, but they don't seem to care enough to look into it.
Guess my investment into their OS don't count.
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Yep, unlike OS 4 it crashes the system. I brought this up to the MorohOS guys before, but they don't seem to care enough to look into it.
Well it doesn't seem likely to be caused specifically by hardware bashing, otherwise it'd never work on the A1 either. The only issue I have had with it in OS4 is that on my A1200 (ironically) the timing is sometimes out by a constant factor (not varying at least) and needs the tempo adjusting to correct. I thought this might be down to how the EClock is handled being as it's 15MHz on my BPPC rather than the ~709kHz that it is on the same machine running 3.x, but of course, the EClock rate on my A1 is 33.33MHz so probably not that either.
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Yep, unlike OS 4 it crashes the system. I brought this up to the MorohOS guys before, but they don't seem to care enough to look into it.
Guess my investment into their OS don't count.
MorphOS Customer Service Memo (http://wrongpla.net/news/article159.html)
haha I miss that site. :)
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MorphOS USB support could always be better of course.
Is that in the pipeline?
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MorphOS Customer Service Memo (http://wrongpla.net/news/article159.html)
haha I miss that site. :)
Funny funny, and sometimes that certainly seems true, but MorphOS (aside of the beef I'm having in particular) is quite polished, is pretty well documented, and I have received friendly help mostly.
Also, Fab has always seemed to listen to the users, I can say that! He's a good man. :)
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If someone buys me a g4 mac mini I'll give morphos a spin, otherwise I'm sticking with AROS, but like I said its a system for games and fun, not for getting any serious work done...
Steven
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Is that in the pipeline?
I don't think so, Isochronous USB transfers are not planned at all so that rules out most USB soundcards
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So far all my best music apps remain on my classic Amiga.
OctaMED SS and HD-Rec.
Heck yeah, and they also work nicely with Minimig, looking forward to trying them out on FPGA Arcade :)
Anyhow though the MorphOS team did not make Apple's hardware, I do feel that they should put MorphOS' audio, midi, wireless, and USB to the top of their priority list.
Totally agree, the focus has been on video playback and framerates in Quake for way too long.
All in all, the Amiga was always known as a media system, so why aren't next gen Amiga OS' putting media and creativity in the fore front?!?!?
Because they can finally watch youtube with OWB - that has kept them busy for years.
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Isochronous USB transfers are not planned at all so that rules out most USB soundcards
Should we make a list of modern OS features that are not planned for MorphOS? It would be a very long list :)
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So I say, leave windows or osx for your music and video production needs, and leave your amiga for everything else.
+1
I have the same conundrum. Maya (and Max, unfortunately) for 3D work, After Effects and Photoshop/Painter for post production and Reason with Cubase for Sound. Sucks, but that's life. I hardly ever boot to my Amithlon drive now. Will be even less, when I finish building my new AM3+ rig.....
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I don't think so, Isochronous USB transfers are not planned at all so that rules out most USB soundcards
That's a er... "brave" decision.
If I can run a USB sound card on my Amiga 4000 with OS 3.9 or OS 4 (via Poseidon), why can't MorphOS do it?
Edit: Just to point out - OS 4 can't do it natively either - but I strongly imagine support is at least planned.
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Stop dicking around with sub standard software on that machine and just use fruity loops on a pc :)
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Should we make a list of modern OS features that are not planned for MorphOS? It would be a very long list :)
You are probably very welcome to join their small team to write these missing features
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Stop dicking around with sub standard software on that machine and just use fruity loops on a pc :)
Fruity sounds too gay.. so Renoise it is ;)
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Not tired renoise. Love fruity loops. Like the workflow. Got tthe full signature edition
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That's a er... "brave" decision.
If I can run a USB sound card on my Amiga 4000 with OS 3.9 or OS 4 (via Poseidon), why can't MorphOS do it?
Poseidon supports isochronous transfers if the underlying device supports it. Deneb driver supports it, pciusb.device doesn't, that's all. And MorphOS on an Amiga would also support it, by the way. ;)
@Kolla
Making Youtube work only kept me busy, and not that long. ;)
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Poseidon supports isochronous transfers if the underlying device supports it. Deneb driver supports it, pciusb.device doesn't, that's all. And MorphOS on an Amiga would also support it, by the way. ;)
Yeah, that's why I wanted to point out that OS 4 doesn't natively support it either. Only fair.
It does seem strange to not even support it, though - I mean USB 2 is the standard for practically everything these days. If I were working on MOS I'd prioritise that over supporting another type of machine any day. But then I don't know what the MOS team are working on....
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But then I don't know what the MOS team are working on....
Pointing out AmigaOne hardware flaws (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56241)
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That's a er... "brave" decision.
I guess there are not enough resources. At least it was not planned some years ago, perhaps plans change if there´s enough demand.
If I can run a USB sound card on my Amiga 4000 with OS 3.9 or OS 4 (via Poseidon), why can't MorphOS do it?
Have you ever tried running MorphOS 1.4.5 on your 4000? MorphOS will run your USB soundcard (or webcam) perfectly, the problem is USB PCI driver, not MorphOS. Deneb is the only card for amiga systems with drivers that include isochronous transfers support (and it works perfectly on MorphOS).
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I wanted to, actually, but it never supported my Prometheus, so I couldn't.
My point wasn't that AOS 4 was better than MOS - it's not, it's the same, here - but that MOS (and AOS) are actually behind OS 3 - at least when you include third party software. It's a bit crazy that the only Amiga to be able to do isochronous connections is the 20 year-old A3000/A4000, especially when USB is by far the standard interface these days.
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Really, HD-Rec runs on a MiniMig? How fast and how much RAM do you have to spare? That program is just awesome. In fact I feel that that program alone is reason enough for the MorphOS team to get their butts in gear and refocus on getting the USB and MIDI side of things going so we can take advantage of some of those cheap USB cards out there.
Heck yeah, and they also work nicely with Minimig, looking forward to trying them out on FPGA Arcade :)
Totally agree, the focus has been on video playback and framerates in Quake for way too long.
Because they can finally watch youtube with OWB - that has kept them busy for years.
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I don't think so, Isochronous USB transfers are not planned at all so that rules out most USB soundcards
If that is true then my relationship with MorphOS will not follow much further into the future. This IS going to cost them a loss in future sales and it is going to be a further slap in the face to all the Amiga users who want to use their old software to it's fullest.
LAME LAME LAME!!!!
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You are probably very welcome to join their small team to write these missing features
I very much doubt that, haha :lol:
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Really, HD-Rec runs on a MiniMig? How fast and how much RAM do you have to spare?
I was a bit quick there, I dont know about HD-Rec, and I don't know where I would hook in the sampler on the Minimig, I use other devices for sampling.
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kolla have enought free time to loss it here talking about how crap is all... but without any help or solution.
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I was a bit quick there, I dont know about HD-Rec, and I don't know where I would hook in the sampler on the Minimig, I use other devices for sampling.
Can you do midi on the mini mig?
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Yes, using the RS232 on the Minimig, I tried it briefly - the MIDI interface I used (TRD?) originally pulled 12V (I think, sounds weird...) power from the 25 pin Amiga serial port, and since the serial port on the Minimig is only the usual 9 pin one, I used a PC PSU to feed both the Minimig (5V) and the MIDI interface. There are others that have found more convenient ways though, one guy even made a MIDI-board that would fit inside the typical Minimig case.
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I wanted to, actually, but it never supported my Prometheus, so I couldn't.
Prometheus support was unfinished, rtl8029 worked but never got voodoo3 working with it.
My point wasn't that AOS 4 was better than MOS - it's not, it's the same, here - but that MOS (and AOS) are actually behind OS 3 - at least when you include third party software.
You mean Deneb drivers are more advanced than PCI drivers because the former drivers support Isochronous transfers.
It´s not a problem of the OS/USB stack but of the usb drivers. In case you don´t remember it Poseidon is part of MorphOS and you can use Deneb on MorphOS (with native Poseidon PPC).
It's a bit crazy that the only Amiga to be able to do isochronous connections is the 20 year-old A3000/A4000, especially when USB is by far the standard interface these days.
Agreed. It´s a pity isochronous transfers are not higher in the "to do list" but what would you delay (or have delayed) to get isochronous transfers sooner... powerbook support? wifi support? R300 support? I guess there are quite important things in the pipeline that nobody would want to delay to get webcams/usb audio cards sooner.
Another important problem is that AHI should be updated or replaced to accept more audio inputs.
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kolla have enought free time to loss it here talking about how crap is all... but without any help or solution.
I have a day job, a life, and other interests, yeah. And I wont "help" a closed source Amiga OS. My solution is to open source MorphOS and let AROS and MorphOS join efforts to a much larger degree.
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Hi,
@XDelusion,
HMMMM!!!! if UAE is blasphemy, well you could always use Cloanto's Amiga Forever, it works great and supports a lot of sound cards. The only trouble I have with mine is my wife, she keeps telling me to turn it down. I keep telling her to shove a sock in her ears. Guess what? She don't listen.
Anybody who says women are defenseless, has never lived with one, they use pschological warfare, blah, blah, blah and blah and if you say something they always get in the last blah.
smerf
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If that is true then my relationship with MorphOS will not follow much further into the future. This IS going to cost them a loss in future sales and it is going to be a further slap in the face to all the Amiga users who want to use their old software to it's fullest.
LAME LAME LAME!!!!
Oh yes, the massive hordes of ex-Amiga hobbymusicians running back to Amiga.. thats not a slap in the face in loss of sales, its a touch of feather on the cheek in most sensitive way a heteroman can feel ;-)
Really, if youre missing a line-in it doesnt mean everyone misses it. I dont, I have a Macmini aswell. It bothers me more to have only two usb-ports. You have been told a million times already, it is Apple's fault you have this problem, don't blame MorphOS for it. Also, you bought wrong hardware for your needs, which also makes it half your own fault.
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I very much doubt that, haha :lol:
But you get the idea.. a few hobbyprogrammers just can't rmimic everything Windows, MacOS or Linux offers. Never will.
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If that is true then my relationship with MorphOS will not follow much further into the future. This IS going to cost them a loss in future sales and it is going to be a further slap in the face to all the Amiga users who want to use their old software to it's fullest.
LAME LAME LAME!!!!
I guess it is important but so is power saving features, 3D, support for reflashed Radeon cards, wireless networking, internet browsers and so on. There are many features to have focus on.
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@hooligan & itix:
I agree, there is much ground that needs to be covered, and yes, in part this is Apple's fault for being equally lame, and partially my fault because I like many other humans do not know everything.
You see the thing is that I have NEVER in my entire life encountered a "modern" computer that lacks audio input. Never once!
Naturally never having been exposed to such a thing, I could not anticipate it's existence, especially from a computer company that advertises itself as a computer company with imagination and innovation, a computer company for the artist, for the creative, and not for the suit and tie business guy. Especially from a company that ships audio recording software with it's computers! ;)
On top of that I had just sent back another Mac Mini to an Ebay dealer because he had shipped me an Intel Mac by mistake. Now ironically the Intel Mac had an input jack (not to mention additional USB ports), so naturally I expected them to be on the G4 Mini as well.
Now back to MorphOS.
As I was stating before, one of MorphOS' present claims to fame is the fact that it has backwards compatibility with some classic Amiga software. The downside to this though is that while it seems to support it's fair share, it still has problems running those apps that were the most used within the community.
One example of this would be the legendary OctaMED Sound Studio. You can run this on Amithlon via Paula emulation, or through Maestrix emulation. You can also run this on OS 4 through Maestrix emulation, but no matter what methods you use to try to get it up and running on MorphOS, your system is going to lock up!
I have brought this up on a few occasions, but alas, no one seemed to care enough to look into it, and I can assure you, I am not the only person out there who wants to see this running. In fact I know a few people who are interested in MorphOS, but do not want to jump on board because their favorite program will not work, or in other cases is not fully supported.
Hd-rec seems to be one of these. We can launch the program and play around with it, but alas we have no access to the MIDI side of things (unless their is something I am missing) again leaving us out in the cold. Though for what ever reason, OS 4 can take full advantage of it! And they can use the MIDI side of OctaMED S.S. as well.
Case in point (it pains me to watch this again so I won't be joining you this time):
[youtube]vPocY3UlK5A[/youtube]
Now, I would think, that perhaps the MorphOS team would want their users (even if they are the minority) to get the support they want, that is support that is within reason. I would think that they would perhaps look into this, maybe compare notes with Hyperion (assuming Hyperion plays friendly), and try to see what they can do to get their user's favorite software working. I mean, after all, we are paying customers, it's not like we are asking for a complete rewrite of the OS or anything to that effect. And assuming they took the time to work these things out, well they'd certainly have a few more users jump on board because after all, we never know when our precious real Amigas are going to bite the dust. In fact I am currently having a couple of mine re-capped.
Another point that I have brought up and will bring up again is there is software such as Digibooster 2 and the upcoming Digibooster 3 which from what I understand, has sampling capabilities. Now I understand that if I bought a huge ass eMac again that I could take advantage of that, or if I purchased a tower I could install a Sound Card and my problem would again be solved, but what of those people who do not have the physical space for such large computers, what of those who can not afford an additional computer to dedicate to each and every purpose. I mean after all I thought that the general road map was to attempt to create an Amiga compatible system that would suit one's every need, or at least most of them, the most basic ones.
The last I looked, USB, MIDI, Sound Sampling and so on are pretty basic needs. You don't have to have Windows or OS X to take advantage of those features, you can use an old Amiga, and Atari ST, a C64, Atari 8-bit, even DOS for most if not all of these needs, so this is not just something that has recently been added to OS' and hardware, and it certainly would not hurt for MorphOS to FULLY support they hardware that they began support for back in MorphOS version 2.7. I mean we are on 3.1 now after all. I took a few months off (because my eMac died) and recently came back only to find that some things had been improved, but those aspects that I looked forward to the most had not been touched at all, not a bit, despite all my posts in the forums.
We already have a good web browser and Fab is doing a terrific job to make it better. Our network stack seems perfectly fine to me, though I must say that wireless is LONG over due as I still can't even take this Mini on-line without plugging a cable into it.
As for flashed Radeon support...
OK, I guess I can see a need for that if you already owned a flashed card, otherwise, just buy one meant for your Mac. 3D is great and certainly improved, but...
I hardly think that gaming and entertainment should take priority over creativity and productivity.
Distracted, pretty girl started talking to me, will continue later. ;)
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3D is great and certainly improved, but...
I hardly think that gaming and entertainment should take priority over creativity and productivity.
I remember (this was about 10 years ago) when MorphOS didnt have 3D acceleration for Radeon cards there was somebody yelling how MorphOS could be taken seriously without 3D... to some user other things are more important that others.
The last I looked, USB, MIDI, Sound Sampling and so on are pretty basic needs. You don't have to have Windows or OS X to take advantage of those features, you can use an old Amiga, and Atari ST, a C64, Atari 8-bit, even DOS for most if not all of these needs, so this is not just something that has recently been added to OS' and hardware, and it certainly would not hurt for MorphOS to FULLY support they hardware that they began support for back in MorphOS version 2.7.
Neither my Amiga 500 or Commodore 64 support sound sampling or MIDI... :P as far as USB isochronous transfer support is concerned it is not something that very often. Anyway, I have no idea if isochronous transfer will be supported. It would be nice to have so Poseidon support would be complete but it is not my job.
Anyway, at least you have raised the issue. If nobody ever ask then nobody care...
Edit
For Maestrix emulation have you tried this:
http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/TheMaestrix
I dont have OctaMED SS so I cant try it out (and you probably already tried it?). If it doesnt work I dont know if there is something else blocking OctaMED SS but again... I never had that program.
To use MIDI you would need a computer with old style serial port (Pegasos 1/2 or Efika ?), it certainly is supported in MorphOS but to my understanding MIDI via USB would require isochronous support... so it comes back to USB then.
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I guess it is important but so is power saving features, 3D, support for reflashed Radeon cards, wireless networking, internet browsers and so on. There are many features to have focus on.
Yes, those are things worth focusing on.
Although all re-flashed video cards that are currently supported in their standard versions currently work under MorphOS (its all I use).
BTW - AmigaDave has figured a way to use a USB wireless devices that was designed to provide a connection to Blu-Ray players and other devices.
NETGEAR|WNCE2001-100NAR
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NetGear-WNCE2001-Universal-WiFi-Internet-Adapter-2-4-Ghz-Ethernet-port-Usb-fast-/271020990055?_trksid=p4340.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D750532587196107297%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D1%26 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NetGear-WNCE2001-Universal-WiFi-Internet-Adapter-2-4-Ghz-Ethernet-port-Usb-fast-/271020990055?_trksid=p4340.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D750532587196107297%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D1%26)
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6613567&CatId=2704
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If someone buys me a g4 mac mini I'll give morphos a spin, otherwise I'm sticking with AROS, but like I said its a system for games and fun, not for getting any serious work done...
Steven
Hi,
You are definetly correct sir
It surely isn't for getting work done, but it is good for web browsing and watching youtube!!
smerf
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Efika will work you say?
Hmmm.... Efika is small, it is low price and MorphOS just became much cheaper to license for that hardware....
That might be worth looking into, if I can find a CHEAP used Efika board.
You know, I don't mean to moan with all my complaints, though I know I'm not the first to be upset in relation to the state of USB or the matter of hardware support for said supported machines. Compatibility with software (either old or MorphOS native) that is said to be supported. After all this was to be a solution to the death of the Amiga, but it ain't much a solution if no one cares to try to make it as backwards compatible as possible, or conveniently expandable as possible at that. Especially when it is starting to look like MorphOS version 4 is going to kill backwards compatibility as we know it all together. Woohoo! Bright days ahead.
So ya, given that we just jumped from 2.7 to 3.1 and said supported hardware still isn't fully supported (no wireless in MacMini, USB is still crippled compared to competing OS') and backwards, compatibility still hasn't been fully fleshed out, and the fact that the future may look like the death to all that... I do tend to moan a little.
All that senseless crap aside, they got my money now, and half of me does not feel raped. Half of me really likes what MorphOS is (for what it is), and I would find it hard to let go of. As I have said time and time again, unlike AROS (in its current state) it runs quite good under the hood. The OS specific features themselves have been fleshed out quite well and have created the best OS experience I've had since classic Amiga OS with Magellan II, and BeOS/Haiku!
Though, OS strengths aside, MorphOS' road map is starting to sound like AROS. To dedicate all efforts in getting games to run or run better, and having something to browse the web with. For us creative guys this isn't enough.
Anyhow the last I checked the Browser is pretty much a one man job. Seems to me (wireless aside) that the network stack is pretty damn good on MorphOS, so how could that require so much of the teams time and energy?
3D seems alright to me on MorphOS. Sure we don't have support for super high end cards and the ability to play DOOM 3 and what have you, but again, I don't care atm. I'm not pressed to play any more games, and besides, AROS already provides in that area.
What we need an a next Gen Amiga OS that is willing to continue to work out backwards compatibility issues (as a main priority), has Wireless support (AROS actually does have that but they have no wireless manager, irony of ironies), and we need USB that ain't stuck in the far past. We need cheap means to expand our hardware of choice and should not be forced to buy a different machine or OS for each task.
I would look into OS 4 as a solution as it seems to have support for some of these things, but alas I hear it is not quite as good under the hood, nor is it cheap to run.
BTW, I can sample on my Atari 8-bit (maybe not my C64), I do have MIDI on my C64, and I can do both on a 500, if I had one, but since I have a 600's and 1200's, I use them instead. ;)
I remember (this was about 10 years ago) when MorphOS didnt have 3D acceleration for Radeon cards there was somebody yelling how MorphOS could be taken seriously without 3D... to some user other things are more important that others.
Neither my Amiga 500 or Commodore 64 support sound sampling or MIDI... :P as far as USB isochronous transfer support is concerned it is not something that very often. Anyway, I have no idea if isochronous transfer will be supported. It would be nice to have so Poseidon support would be complete but it is not my job.
Anyway, at least you have raised the issue. If nobody ever ask then nobody care...
Edit
For Maestrix emulation have you tried this:
http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/TheMaestrix
I dont have OctaMED SS so I cant try it out (and you probably already tried it?). If it doesnt work I dont know if there is something else blocking OctaMED SS but again... I never had that program.
To use MIDI you would need a computer with old style serial port (Pegasos 1/2 or Efika ?), it certainly is supported in MorphOS but to my understanding MIDI via USB would require isochronous support... so it comes back to USB then.
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To use MIDI you would need a computer with old style serial port (Pegasos 1/2 or Efika ?), it certainly is supported in MorphOS but to my understanding MIDI via USB would require isochronous support... so it comes back to USB then.
USB2MIDI cable costs $5. MIDI is very old standard and almost any computer I have seen supports in one way or another. Microsoft tried to ditch it in Windows 7 but it still works with simple configuration hack.
Here is my AmigaOne controling KORG PA50 via MIDI. Using CAMD library.
[youtube]YKzZ79TLzs8[/youtube]
If isochronous suppot means being able to play while it performs - then it works nice.
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USB2MIDI cable costs $5. MIDI is very old standard and almost any computer I have seen supports in one way or another. Microsoft tried to ditch it in Windows 7 but it still works with simple configuration hack.
Here is my AmigaOne controling KORG PA50 via MIDI. Using CAMD library.
[youtube]YKzZ79TLzs8[/youtube]
If isochronous suppot means being able to play while it performs - then it works nice.
I can install Camd library and get Hd-Rec to load, but this far none of the USB midi devices I've tested were properly handled by MorphOS.
Which model did you use?
P.s. Have not been able to watch your video yet, bandwidth is too lOw here.
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I cn install Camd library and get Hd-Rec to lpad, but this far none of the USB midi devices I've tested were properly handled by MorphOS.
Which model did you use?
P.s. Have not been able to watch your video yet, bandwidth is too lOw here.
I use simple, cheap USB2MIDI cable off ebay for $5. It has MIDI in and out. I installed the CAMD library, set the synth to be controlled by external sequencer and then all the tools included with camd worked. Even the simple MIDI player I downloaded from OS4Depot written in Blitz BASIC works. Horny works too. MIDI works nice on my Amiga.
On this video the sound from the synth is too loud and little distorted. I learned my lesson and in my newer videos I set it to be on lower volume.
One of the utilities included with CAMD library shows the keys pressed on the synth, or the sequences send to the synth - something like the old EDPlayer on classic Amigas. Very useful and helping for learning songs and performances.
Pure asynchronous play.
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Nice!!!
Problem though, all my USB midI adapters came from EBay. Can you post a pic of the exact one you used? If I can get MIDI to work on MorphOS, then I can find a work around for recording audio since USB sound cards are neglectfully out of the question...
I mean regretfully. ;)
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Nice!!!
Problem though, all my USB midI adapters came from EBay. Can you post a pic of the exact one you used? If I can get MIDI to work on MorphOS, then I can find a work around for recording audio since USB sound cards are neglectfully out of the question...
I mean regretfully. ;)
I just recorded another video - I am showing the USB2MIDI cable in it.
[youtube]ufc-iKS3GbM[/youtube]
Almost dropped the synth on the floor, again, while trying to lift it to show in the video. I realized at the end, it's easier to move the camcorder and show the synth than moving the synth. Oh well, the sound turned to be loud again, but I was trying to mute the noisy fan of my AmigaONE PSU.
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Thank you, though the video was REALLY dark. I could not see the device clearly, but from what I did see, it looks like what I have...
...the device that MorphOS (for what ever reason) did not play friendly with.
Hmmm... now that I have a new machine and MorphOS has been updated, perhaps I should give it one more go. If it don't work I'll be back to moan. ;)
BTW, here's a couple videos I did about a month ago on my 1200 (before I put the 060 back in it).
OctaMED Sound Studio MicroKorg and XR20 MIDI. Tutorial Pt1
[Youtube]15NRcZD_d-w[/youtube]
OctaMED Sound Studio MicroKorg and XR20 MIDI. Tutorial Pt2
[Youtube]hXPhY9K1d34[/youtube]
I just recorded another video - I am showing the USB2MIDI cable in it.
[youtube]ufc-iKS3GbM[/youtube]
P.S. Ya, don't drop that synth!!!! ;)
Almost dropped the synth on the floor, again, while trying to lift it to show in the video. I realized at the end, it's easier to move the camcorder and show the synth than moving the synth. Oh well, the sound turned to be loud again, but I was trying to mute the noisy fan of my AmigaONE PSU.
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Oh, look what OS 4 users get...
http://aminet.net/package/driver/other/usbmidi
I bet that has something to do with something. They even got a native port of the library. Sighh...
Someone please come to my rescue, I need your coding skillz!!! :) If I was not currently jobless and near broke, I'd start a bounty as you know I've contributed to bounties in the past. Honestly, I'm not just a moaning bastard! I have supported the community in my own little way, please help!!!! :)
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but to my understanding MIDI via USB would require isochronous support... so it comes back to USB then.
That's not the case. usb midi uses _bulk_ transfers. But requires a working usb streaming class. The ammount of data is rather small, hence no isochronous transfer is required (isochronous is only indicated when precise timing AND high throughput come together). For midi the high throughput is not the case. usb midi is well defined in the usb specs - compare http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/midi10.pdf
I could imagine not too much effort is needed to make midi work well on MorphOS.
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While we are having a good whinge about MOS i thought i would add my own. When i start up MOS my monitor has to adjust itself which takes longer than it does to load up. This means by the time my monitor starts displaying properly the Ambient screen is already up. Which means i miss the splash screen completely. I know this is something trivial but it matters because it is cool as **** (the blue butterfly) and this is important when showing my friends MOS for the first time. Any ideas how to fix this problem?
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Any ideas how to fix this problem?
Buy a new monitor? :)
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It's brand new!
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What model do you got?
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Here, on morphoszone and metamorphos forums I've seen some user asking some questions and requesting support about sound devices working on MorphOS.
As you know, my Helios stack can handle such devices, but as you expect just having possibility to communicate to a device is not enough to use it.
We need specialized driver like the sbp2.class I've done to control SBP2 (SCSI over FW).
By checking what linux guys have already done in term of market filtering on this subet (see http://www.ffado.org/), it seems that most of working sound related hardware use the AVC protocol.
I know how to handle this protocol (i've already created a simple code to control my AVC DC-cam), so it could be possible in a near futur to have an avc.class to drive these audio hardwares.
But (yes there is one) even if enough people are interested by that, I've not such hardware.. and I think never get (don't need that). And more other, I don't have enough skills in the audio domain to do everything myself.
So I'm searching for some people having:
- a machine with a registered MorphOS
- some FW sound hardware listed in the ffado supported list (see the upper link)...
because need to support AVC protocol (becareful, many devices uses proprietary protocol).
- can be available for realtime testing (I'm on IRC).
So, send me a PM if you are interested by.
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While we are having a good whinge about MOS i thought i would add my own. When i start up MOS my monitor has to adjust itself which takes longer than it does to load up. This means by the time my monitor starts displaying properly the Ambient screen is already up. Which means i miss the splash screen completely. I know this is something trivial but it matters because it is cool as **** (the blue butterfly) and this is important when showing my friends MOS for the first time. Any ideas how to fix this problem?
okay, I must be having this too, as I didn't even know there /was/ a splash screen at all.
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You mean there is something about Amiga's i know that someone else doesn't? Like, wow! Now I feel all funny inside. So this is what it feels like. Interesting...
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@XDelusion. My monitor is an LG 24 inch. Model: FLATRON E2441
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@XDelusion. My monitor is an LG 24 inch. Model: FLATRON E2441
Mm, can't find a review.
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Thank you fir offering your knowledge. I wish I was a programmer, but alas, I am other things. :)
Here, on morphoszone and metamorphos forums I've seen some user asking some questions and requesting support about sound devices working on MorphOS.
As you know, my Helios stack can handle such devices, but as you expect just having possibility to communicate to a device is not enough to use it.
We need specialized driver like the sbp2.class I've done to control SBP2 (SCSI over FW).
By checking what linux guys have already done in term of market filtering on this subet (see http://www.ffado.org/), it seems that most of working sound related hardware use the AVC protocol.
I know how to handle this protocol (i've already created a simple code to control my AVC DC-cam), so it could be possible in a near futur to have an avc.class to drive these audio hardwares.
But (yes there is one) even if enough people are interested by that, I've not such hardware.. and I think never get (don't need that). And more other, I don't have enough skills in the audio domain to do everything myself.
So I'm searching for some people having:
- a machine with a registered MorphOS
- some FW sound hardware listed in the ffado supported list (see the upper link)...
because need to support AVC protocol (becareful, many devices uses proprietary protocol).
- can be available for realtime testing (I'm on IRC).
So, send me a PM if you are interested by.
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@ XDelusion
I see you are getting a bit nervous. Of course it would be great if MorphOS had this and that feature. On the other hand I have some good news for you. It happens that except of being a DigiBooster 3 programmer, I'm also a member of MorphOS Team. Many potential users of DB3 told me of MIDI importance and I'm not deaf ;-). But then developing software in free time takes, well, the time... That is why I cannot promise you MIDI in DigiBooster 3.0. I have a choice of releasing program with some features missing, or release it, let's say a year later. What is better?
Said that I know that native camd.library is needed I also know that audio recording capabilities need a serious review. I've studied the API and source codes of camd.library and have some ideas how it should work and look like. I'm not a musican however, so any suggestions are welcome. Unfortunately I do not have much MIDI music gear, but I guess some basic one is enough for the start. I also have access to code and am able to fix issues with USB MIDI support.
As for recording, I have some variety of hardware, I can do testing on: built-in Efika AC97, built-in Pegasos 2 AC97, SoundBlaster Live!, built-in PowerBook codec. I have access to their drivers and are in contact with people, who wrote them. It is harder with USB audio recording, it has being said that it requires support of isochronous USB transfers in USB hardware driver(s) and it is beyond my knowledge and competence unfortunately, at least for now.
I do not want to make void promises, but my plans are serious. I guess, if we can switch from moaning to exchange of ideas, it will do only good :-).
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Oh, look what OS 4 users get...
http://aminet.net/package/driver/other/usbmidi
I bet that has something to do with something. They even got a native port of the library. Sighh...
You don't need that port as Poseidon supports MIDI devices through camdusbmidi.class (or simplemidi.class)
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You don't need that port as Poseidon supports MIDI devices through camdusbmidi.class (or simplemidi.class)
@Crumb, can you tell me know I can get this to work with HD-Rec.? I can not seem to get it to respond to it.
Also you can see a photo of how Trident is viewing my MIDI device here:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?wn87tsr2bwnn260#
@Krashan: Sweet, thank you so much for your response, this is wonderful to hear!!! A Digibooster Team member who is also a MorphOS team member! Now I have hope! :)
@Everyone
Discussion is also going on here:
http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8623&post_id=93756&order=0&viewmode=flat&pid=93751&forum=9#93756
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@Crumb, can you tell me know I can get this to work with HD-Rec.? I can not seem to get it to respond to it.
Also you can see a photo of how Trident is viewing my MIDI device here:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?wn87tsr2bwnn260#
I'm afraid I don't know much about music software :-/ I can see there are 2 interfaces, one named "audio control" that hasn't any class binded so perhaps that controls the rest of your midi adaptor. I don't know if another midi adapter may give you better results. Perhaps you could ask Chris Hodges to know what midi equipment does he use.
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@XDelusion
Hi. Honestly, the solution is just to get rid of the mac mini and get a desktop G4 powermac that works with MOS (is that's your preferred one...). Then you'll be able to use a good PCI sound card, much better than then cra**y built in line in anyway.. The Envy24 driver package supports a few semipro cards:)
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So set up a **** 1ghz or 2ghz pc with line in to record whatever you need. Transfer recordings via usb thumb drives, problem solved, but I agree with you...
Many amiga musicians want to move to morphos or aros or aos4. There should be easier solutions for something so simple as recording audio or creating samples...
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So set up a **** 1ghz or 2ghz pc with line in to record whatever you need. Transfer recordings via usb thumb drives, problem solved, but I agree with you...
Many amiga musicians want to move to morphos or aros or aos4. There should be easier solutions for something so simple as recording audio or creating samples...
That's similar to the way I get analogue audio data to my MorphOS machines, but I use a digital audio recorder (iRiver IHP-120, old but pretty brilliant sound) connected by usb (msd class) for that purpose. It's rather easy to do.
That said most MorphOS capable machines come with a line in connector (never used it though), the mini is special in that regard (once suported the ibooks will share that limitation).
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I wondered if Apple had done one of their special all-in-one ports. Some Macs have analogue and optical audio in/out all in one port. They do this on the Intel iMacs but not the G4s :-/
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All this pain and suffering could have been side stepped if you bought a different Mac, X.
Both my Powermacs have Soundblaster Live cards installed out sound in is no problem.
Shesh.
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All this pain and suffering could have been side stepped if you bought a different Mac, X.
Both my Powermacs have Soundblaster Live cards installed out sound in is no problem.
Shesh.
Some people don't want a behemoth of a tower on their desk, esp one that the OS only uses 1 core of.
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Some people don't want a behemoth of a tower on their desk, esp one that the OS only uses 1 core of.
Are you talking about x1000?
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All this pain and suffering could have been side stepped if you bought a different Mac, X.
Both my Powermacs have Soundblaster Live cards installed out sound in is no problem.
Shesh.
Or bought an Amiga to begin with.
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Or bought an Amiga to begin with.
recording 16bit sound with a classic is expensive