Newtek's VT5 and Amiga OS 4.1?

[Tomas]

AmigaPixel wrote:

 Hi all thought I post this subject after posted it in the Desktop video forum.

 I was hoping that If OS 4.1 and the Sam 440ep start selling more, even as a nich market that Newtek would port over the new VT5 to Amiga OS. Or allow a third party to do it. It doesn't seem like it would be to hard for a skilled programmer, especially since the new Amiga hardware has PCI slots. Speed Edit alone would be a prize on the Amiga, it is resolution independent. Any programmers out there have any thoughts on this and how practical this would be? :-D

The sam would be way too slow for that.

[persia]

The Sam is a joke.

VT% System Requirements

PROCESSOR:

Dual Intel or AMD processors that support SSE2 (Dual core CPUs recommended)
Front-side Bus speed of 800MHz or higher

INTERFACE:

An open 66MHz PCI slot for the VT[5] card is recommended for best performance (Additional slot needed for breakout cable)
Any IEEE1394 FireWire card for DV and HDV capture

GRAPHICS CARD:

PCI Express-based graphics card w/ 64MB RAM per display
DirectX 9.0c or higher # Latest graphics card drivers
Minimum screen resolution of 1280x1024 required
SYSTEM RAM:

2 Gigabytes or more of system RAM

HARD DRIVES::

Software-striped SATA drives for video storage and playback
8 Gigabytes of storage for DVEs and content
System drive with 2GB of free disk space
DVD Drive

OPERATING SYSTEM::

Windows® XP Professional (SP2) or Windows Vista 32-bit
Windows® Media Player 9 or higher
Windows® Media Encoder 9 or higher for streaming

[Crom00]

GTo understand why the VT4 will never work in a Sam, realize that the VT4 card itself is a high quality capture card for uncompressed video.

It does not speed up or accelerate this process with GPU or custom chip accelerated fuctions...

The transitions FX, drive controllers and "uncompressed video capability" rely on the host systems CPU power, ram and disk speed. This approach was taken to make us of commodity priced PC hardware and make the VT4 system easily upgradeable via software (unline the vt2000/4000)

The card they sell today is slightly revised version of the Vt2/Vt3 cards from like 7 years ago.

You're thinking about the original Amiga Toaster and Flyer card where the 2 cards worked in tandem, the flyer had 3 scsi controllers, I/0 hardware etc and LOTs of custome chips to make it happen in conjuction with ecs/AGA.

So back then becuase soooo much was done with the Flyer and Toaster 4000 cards, you only needed a 25 mghtz setup.

Really there's soooo much going on when you run the VT5 (compared to the old Amiga versions...) it's crazy, when you think about it. If you're in VTedit it's constanly updating the timeline. Built in realtime Vectorscope... Lightwave multitasks, etc... IVGA can capture video from another PC or MAC via ethernet. All of this is possible due to the use of Windows and muti-Ghz setups.

mine is a dual xeon 3.4 gthz 5 gig ram HP XW8000 setup.

I love the "Amiga Way" of working but so much would have to be added to OS4 from scratch.. When I think about it...well I scratch my head in confusion as to why you'd want to go through the effort?

Get a firewire interface working and that alone will keep you busy and most folks quite happpy.

[KimmoK]

@persia

You seem to ignore that VT was first on Amigas and it ran very well on 25Mhz Amigas & Z2 & Z3 slots & very little RAM.

But surely it might be too hard to turn WIntel philosophy SW back to Amiga philosophy.

[Pyromania]

Again the solution here is to adapt the open source Amiga Video Toaster Flyer software to work with the new VT PCI card.

[Crom00]

It's no longer about the Wintel vs. Amiga software philosphy. Newtek have skilled efficient programmers (Amiga veterans to boot...) who know how to code & make use of every last bit of juice a system can offer.

Comparing the VT Amiga series to the PC in terms of functionality is apples to oranges...The PC Toaster has soooo muck more going on and the CPU and it's intstruction sets are being used extensively.

I've spent many hours on VT4/5, Amiga Toaster Flyer, Tricaster AND SpeedEDIT so my position comes from way too much money spent on all this stuff.

Love the Amiga but there's no way you can get modern day functionality of PC VT4 or Tricaster on the currently available Amiga solutions.

It's evlolved way beyond that era.

[Crom00]

Pyromania wrote:
Again the solution here is to adapt the open source Amiga Video Toaster Flyer software to work with the new VT PCI card.

And would you have as much functionality as the PC version?
It's a cool idea, but I see todays Windows and it's robust OS of available tools as an advantage. Yes, XP and Vista crash, I loathe MS, etc. But modern tools for modern jobs.

Running that on a Sam would throw a Monkey Wrench into my workflow. Now I have to switch between AFter Effects. Maya, Lightwave and 3ds Max running on another PC and bring that content to an Amiga? Via what drive setup? U320 scsi array external box? Esata Raid? Remember I want to continue to work uncompressed...

The benefit of the PC toaster is that you get all your content from all apps into the VT4. WITHOUT switching back and forth. I used to do this with Lightwave on a PC and A VT4000T Flyer setup using Jazz drives. I'm not going back to that mess.

I think it's fun idea for tinkerers and fantics but anyone making a business out of it would not do it.

[bloodline]

I recently had a quick play with Final Cut studio on my friend's Macbook... From what I understand, Video Toaster doesn't even offer 1% of what the £300 Final Cut software can do... And VT doesn't do HD either... I think this is a mute topic :shrug:...

[Crom00]

Exactly bloodline...

How many folks here have actually tried to edit projects on a deadline using modern vs. Amiga VTFlyer setups?

Trust me, once you've used a modern editing setup going back to the Toaster Flyer (even though it was good for the time) is like moving backwards, it's like trying to edit video on a museum relic. I loved my Flyer setup but when I saw a demo of the VT4 or Final Cut and the Matrox RT, heck even I-Movie, I said...this is the future.

Editing on vintage hardware is great for an exercise in Nostalgia and Massocism.

All that being said. VT4000 flyer functionality in an Ipod- Iphone sized device would kick butt. A streaming version would become lenendary... A paradigm shift type product as mentioned way back in the Video Toaster: Revolution video tape.

[Pyromania]

I don't think an Amiga Video Toaster Flyer system can replace a modern VT[5] but it could be a valued video input on a VT[5] or TriCaster. TriCaster & Flyer system used together are kind of cool.

[Pyromania]

@bloodline

iMovie and Final Cut are cool but they don't have a built in video switcher. Saying the Flyer can't do 1% of what they do is stretching it. SpeedEDIT offers HD editing.

[persia]

@KimmoK

Look at your calendar, it's 2009, the Video Toaster has evolved through 3 generations since it last ran in an Amiga.  VT5 uses the CPUs in your computer extensively.  The SAM is a glorified Mobile Phone, it doesn't have the power to run a VT5 even if the software was there.

But the software isn't there, the APIs necessary don't exist in OS4.1.  VT5 is not a solution for Amiga users.

Open Video Editor is, and even in it's infancy it runs circles around the original Video Toaster software.  Video Toasters are for TV stiudios, if you are making Youtube videos or other videos which don't involve a live digital signal you are better off with Final Cut.

[Pyromania]

We have not had the opportunity to run Open Video Editor but will try it and report back. We are kind of already in video editing overload here, VT[5], TriCaster Pro FX, SpeedEDIT, Final Cut Studio 2 & Amiga Video Toaster Flyer.

 :-D

[bloodline]

Pyromania wrote:
@bloodline

iMovie and Final Cut are cool but they don't have a built in video switcher. Saying the Flyer can't do 1% of what they do is stretching it. SpeedEDIT offers HD editing.

Ok, apologies if I've misunderstood... But I actually can't really see what the old VT does in a modern context... It seems to be some kind of advanced genlock with integrated effects software.  

I don't know anyone who even uses analogue video any more...  

[Pyromania]

@bloodline

The software is the key, it is now open source and can be upgraded & ported to MorphOS, AROS & 4.1. Why start over from scratch when you have a blueprint in front of you that is already Amiga code? The ease of use of the interface is still amazing as is the integrated CG, Paint system, FX, ChromaFX & NLE. Not to mention cool 3rd party plug-ins. MorphOS, Amiga OS 4.1 & AROS need video editing software since they have none.

[AmigaPixel]

 Wow! Nice debate! And I thought this thread had died. My job is done. :-D