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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: espskog on December 30, 2010, 08:44:39 AM
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Hello to Mike J and Yaqube.
I know you guys are probably swamped in work and out shopping mega-pacs of fireworks already, but could you see if you could publish images or youtube clips of the Replay board itself and when operating and maybe also with the 060 daughterboard installed ?
We would be glued to the monitors, even at 23:59:59 at 31.12.2010 if you do this....screw the fireworks :-D
Merry X-Mas and a hapyp new year!!!
//Espen
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Frankly speaking there is not much to show right now. Everything has been delayed slightly.
I should get the new revision of the board shortly after Mike has verified the design. The daughter board should be ready in January.
In the meantime Tobias has managed to implement missing bitfield instructions. It has increased the core size to 75% of the FPGA.
We are still working on fixing minor problems. Finally we've got the RNC Copy Lock games to work.
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Frankly speaking there is not much to show right now. Everything has been delayed slightly.
I should get the new revision of the board shortly after Mike has verified the design. The daughter board should be ready in January.
In the meantime Tobias has managed to implement missing bitfield instructions. It has increased the core size to 75% of the FPGA.
We are still working on fixing minor problems. Finally we've got the RNC Copy Lock games to work.
Cheers for the info. Sounds like things are just about done with th exception of a few morer tweaks.
Just out of interest, will/can the AGA core be ported to the C-One?
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What will be present on the upcoming daughter board?
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Just out of interest, will/can the AGA core be ported to the C-One?
The current Minimig AGA core needs circa 25K logic cells. The Cyclone-III on the C-One extender has 24.6K LCs but some more are required for another CPU core acting as ARM MCU replacement.
Actually it's very hard to use more than 95% of the FPGA due to limited routing resources. It's hard to tell for sure but with clever coding it might be possible.
What will be present on the upcoming daughter board?
I will post more info when I have the board on my desk running.
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@ Yacube
Count me in for a daughterboard ;-)
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@yaqube, 75% of the Spartan-3E 1200 ..?
75% is a lot, and makes me wonder about the space for the AGA core etc..
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75% of the Spartan-3E 1200 ..?
75% of the Spartan-3E 1600
75% is a lot, and makes me wonder about the space for the AGA core etc..
75% is taken by: Minimig AGA core (with 24-bit scandoubler) + SDRAM DDR memory controller + TG68.C (V0.40) + dual CPU caches + 16-bit DMA AHI sound card module + 128 channel embeded logic analyzer
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I am waiting for the replacement LDOs to arrive to verify the problem with power off has been fixed. They got delayed by the Christmas holidays, but I should have them Monday. I'll then ship the board to Yacube.
I have been working to improve timing and area in the design so the compile time is reduced.
Trust me, we are not hanging around here...
/Mike
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75% of the Spartan-3E 1600
Isn't the fpgaarcade equipped with an Spartan-3E 1200 ..?
75% is taken by: Minimig AGA core (with 24-bit scandoubler) + SDRAM DDR memory controller + TG68.C (V0.40) + dual CPU caches + 16-bit DMA AHI sound card module + 128 channel embeded logic analyzer
That sounds better ;)
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From what I recall, the 1200 got replaced with a 1600... It's somewhere in the very long thread.
edit:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=557510&postcount=357
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All I know is I want Both (money already set aside), also want Natami then i am one very happy boy... (except i would have to wait for AROS 68K)
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@yaqube
Is the Picasso96 driver getting some love? ;)
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Is the Picasso96 driver getting some love? ;)
Yes but right now the priority is the chipset and CPU compatibility.
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This is great news Mike and Yaqube. We love your dedication and the fact that you spend so much time on this project. I do hope your will make some money on this awell.
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How much does the pcb board itself without any components cost?
(size?, layers?)
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It's 6 layers and you can get the size from the drawing on the website.
I'm not prepared to discuss component pricing as the board is not available (and no use) on it's own - you can't self assemble this.
It's pretty tough to hit the price point I am offering it for in these volumes. When the manufacture moves completely to China it will be a little less.
Mike
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Just curious what pcb price you got for small runs for use in other non-amiga related projects ;)
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Sure,
The PCB company I use is called Shenzhen Gold Sky
http://www.gsspcb.com/en/
My contact is called Lily, who is great.
The price depends a lot on volume and the design, so send them the manufacturing data and get a quote. The NRE is quite high so you need to be looking at 50+ to make the overall price good, then it gets quite cheap.
Best,
Mike
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I think a small run = 4 cards, I thought you used another one more physically close. ;)
As I recall you used one company for the first 10 (or one?), and another one for the full 50?
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Frankly speaking there is not much to show right now. Everything has been delayed slightly.
I should get the new revision of the board shortly after Mike has verified the design. The daughter board should be ready in January.
In the meantime Tobias has managed to implement missing bitfield instructions. It has increased the core size to 75% of the FPGA.
We are still working on fixing minor problems. Finally we've got the RNC Copy Lock games to work.
@Yacube can i use my new unused ceramic PGA 060 rev 6 (71E41J) on your daughter board ?
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Are the PCB's similar for the 1st and 2nd run ?
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can i use my new unused ceramic PGA 060 rev 6 (71E41J) on your daughter board ?
Definitely :)
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Definitely :)
Sweet, i'm happy that I hold back this CPU then ;-)
Maybe it's possible to overclock the cpu in the future this cpu can run 80 mhz easy..
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Sweet, i'm happy that I hold back this CPU then ;-)
Maybe it's possible to overclock the cpu in the future this cpu can run 80 mhz easy..
Or maybe in a few years it will be much, much faster take a look at this up coming FPGA technology:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1342100/Scientists-unveil-1-000-core-chip-make-desktop-machines-20-times-faster.html
:banana::banana::banana:
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Hehe...How fast minimig do we need :-) I am just glad to hear RTG is in the pipeline so that we can glue the Replay board to the back of a monsterous Apple 24" screen and thus use the Replay board as a kick ass Classic usage with workbench and super-speed and a nice resolution. I believe Mike or Yaqube mentioned that 1680x 1050 should be possible to produce. That's gonna be very nice... :-)
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I think 80 MHz signaling speed with the FPGA might be a stretch. It requires some consideration.
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Hehe...How fast minimig do we need :-) I am just glad to hear RTG is in the pipeline so that we can glue the Replay board to the back of a monsterous Apple 24" screen and thus use the Replay board as a kick ass Classic usage with workbench and super-speed and a nice resolution. I believe Mike or Yaqube mentioned that 1680x 1050 should be possible to produce. That's gonna be very nice... :-)
should not be a problem if it comes to amiga68k rtg solutions, my main 4000er handles that alright even under p96. cant use the (expensive&shitty/4.2 dumb users) mac display i have standing here cause it doesnt accept analogue signals anymore.
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I think 80 MHz signaling speed with the FPGA might be a stretch. It requires some consideration.
Even 66Mhz 060 would be pretty cool :-)
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should not be a problem if it comes to amiga68k rtg solutions, my main 4000er handles that alright even under p96. cant use the (expensive&shitty/4.2 dumb users) mac display i have standing here cause it doesnt accept analogue signals anymore.
If I recall correctly, the Replay board has DVI output which the Apple Display should like. Anyway, I think I will buy something else which does not cost a zillion extra for the apple logo :)
Espen
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wawrzon, There are Analogue -> to -> DVI/HDMI adapters. Not cheap but they exist.
Btw, I think mikej could build one ;)
(A/D + FPGA + Transmitter)
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If I recall correctly, the Replay board has DVI output which the Apple Display should like. Anyway, I think I will buy something else which does not cost a zillion extra for the apple logo :)
Espen
Yes it has DVI out (which can be used with a HDMI TV input), analogue out (on the DVI connector) and sVHS/composite.
/Mike
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Tip for identifying that Apple connector:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_connectors#Physical_connectors
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Yes it has DVI out (which can be used with a HDMI TV input), analogue out (on the DVI connector) and sVHS/composite.
/Mike
That is very nice. Is there any need for a config setting to choose from DVI output vs sVHS/Composite output or are all they video outputs active at the same time (if so --> very nice!!!).
Espen
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If the board is displaying standard ntsc/pal on the DVI out then the sVHS/Comp can be enabled as well. For HD modes these outputs are disabled.
/Mike
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Is DVI behaving in the same manner as Analog VGA does so that even though it's 31kHz hor sync, it's still 50Hz vert sync ? Or does DVI simply just bash the pixels to the screen without the need of a 50Hz sync ?
The reason I ask is that many LCD monitors suck at displaying 50Hz analog VGA. Either they just won't operate, or they display a silly message on the screen which sometimes cannot be clicked away using the OSD on the LCD monitor.
Also, I was wondering if the Replay board uses more or less the same OSD layout as Minimig does, or is it more facelifted when it comes to the layout (e.g. mouse controlled etc?).
//Espen
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DVI just bashes pixels to the screen (at 50Hz or 60Hz in this case).
Most computer screens will not accept the 50Hz vertical refresh rate.
However, if you plug the DVI into a HDMI input, the screen will work at 50Hz P or I (interlaced).
The Amiga core chucks out 50i or 60i which can be scan doubled to 50p or 60p.
The board is generic and my boot loader is a facelifted. The Amiga port is currently being worked on by Jakub as is based on the Minimig ARM code.
We will hopefully see some convergence of the code.
/Mike
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DVI/HDMI has a quirk.. it sends horizontal and vertical sync along with the digital pixels....
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But if I skip over from using a computer LCD screen to instead a LCD Television, I presume that it will eat the 50Hz without any problems. Correct ? A 55" LED TV connected to the Replat using DVI will be very nifty :)
Are there horizontal and Vertical filters on the Replay aswell so that the pixels are blurred a little bit ? I dislike the chunky sharp pixels. It's too "perfect" :-)
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Depends what the core does. The hardware has filters to limit the video bandwidth to an appropriate level for the interface. I have the board connected to my 50" Plasma at the moment, running at both 625i and 625P
LCD TVs will look sharp at their native resolution and fuzzy at other resolutions, depending on the quality of their sizing engine. The Amiga core outputs at native resolution, so no filtering is possible. If it is scan doubling then some vertical filtering is required.
What may be possible is to run the output at 1280x720 say and scale the original picture into that window with decent filtering.
/MikeJ
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Another trick/hack is to dump the Amiga screen into a buffer and have your own scaler algorithm.
As I recall the PAL color modulation is responsible for some of the blurring. Some C64 emulator has this blur mode. And it certinly improves the picture beauty.
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BTW: Is there a C64 core for the replay board which is working ?
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As I recall the PAL color modulation is responsible for some of the blurring. Some C64 emulator has this blur mode. And it certinly improves the picture beauty.
What is this "PAL color modulation" of which you speak?
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75% of the Spartan-3E 1600
75% is taken by: Minimig AGA core (with 24-bit scandoubler) + SDRAM DDR memory controller + TG68.C (V0.40) + dual CPU caches + 16-bit DMA AHI sound card module + 128 channel embeded logic analyzer
How much space does each part in that list occupy?
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Interesting to know if the 128 channel logic analyzer takes up much space. Does not sounds like it's really needed for general use ? Is it just there for development ?
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Another question: I see ont he PCB that the power + button is on the backside of the board. This means it might prove a little tricky to mount it inside a cabinet, unless we create a little looped wire from the board to the backside.
Was there a design-reason for why not all connectors and stuff are on the backside for easy access on a ITX cabinet ?
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They don't all fit!
The thinking was, if the board is in an ITX case then you have a power supply with a switch in the case. You connect to either the molex or 2 pin header and leave the on-board switch on all the time.
If it is sitting in a custom case then the switch pokes out the back.
/Mike
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Any ETA Mike?? My money is burning a whole and before the wife sees it!!!
Keep up the great work. Many Thanks
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They don't all fit!
The thinking was, if the board is in an ITX case then you have a power supply with a switch in the case. You connect to either the molex or 2 pin header and leave the on-board switch on all the time.
Yeah, I did not have onboard PSU in mind. Good call :-)
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Any ETA Mike?? My money is burning a whole and before the wife sees it!!!
Keep up the great work. Many Thanks
Hehe....I second that :)
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Any ETA Mike?? My money is burning a whole and before the wife sees it!!!
Wives are why bankers invented numbered Swizz bank accounts :lol:
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I just posted this status update :
I'm still testing the boards. I've had a few issues which have taken quite a lot of time to sort out. I'm waiting for the replacement regulators still, but I have a minor patch for the board which fixes the power off issue.
The audio is up and running at 24 bit 192 KHz. I had a whole load of problems getting this to work, but it turned out to be a constraint problem inside the FPGA. The signal quality and noise level look very good.
The composite video output has also given me a lot of trouble. I have spent a lot of time making a good video timing generator and adding in all the equalisation and synchronisation pulses you need for "correct" PAL/NTSC. Still no picture. I found a minor problem with the output resistors, but this is easily patched on the boards I have produced already. Still no joy. It turns out the video input on my LG screen is not working for some reason (and the screen is quite new).
The sVHS and video outputs work fine on my Plasma TV. The sVHS output looks quite ok, the composite doesn't look great but that's due to the limitations of the format. I'll run some multiburst test patterns through it tomorrow to check the luma trap is correct.
The main RGB video outputs and the DVI/HDMI digital output look great. The only thing remaining is the stress testing of the DRAM. I've re-written the memory controller and added production tests so I can measure the operating margin. It looks like I have a few bugs still but I hope to finish off the testing this week.
Amiga specific stuff:
I haven't got Jakub's AGA core up and running yet. I suspect there is something different with the DRAM and I am focusing on my own board tests to sign off the hardware. I've started to re-write the Minimig core and tidy it up with Jakubs support into a VHDL version which will be easier to maintain. The 10 boards I have had produced I'll patch the svhs out on (it's a minor mod on the back of the board). I've already updated the PCB layout for a B2 board which just has the fixes for production as it's expensive to get mods done on lots of boards. The B1 and B2 boards are functionally identical.
/Mike
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Cheers Mike for the update. I hope you're not getting too frustrated. Remember: Beer is your friend. :D
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I've started to re-write the Minimig core and tidy it up with Jakubs support into a VHDL version which will be easier to maintain.
Mike, keep up the good work.
I do have one concern for MiniMIG core.
MiniMig core is currently in Verilog (except for the soft 68K which is in VHDL) on these Targets:
1. MiniMig (no soft 68K)
2. MiniMig_ITX (no soft 68K)
3. C-One (soft 68K)
4. Altera DE1/DE2 (soft 68K)
5. MCC-Arcade (soft 68K)
Thus, the port of the MiniMig Core to VHDL may not be the best for the MiniMig core since the five other ports/targets are currently in Verilog and changes done to a VHDL MiniMig port will get out of Sync and be unique. This could cause support/updates to cease for the other targets.
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"port" is probably the wrong word. Convert is more appropriate.
Not quite sure why you'd want to. Mixed VHDL and VERILOG works fine in sim & synthesis... I've got 10's of projects here with a mixture.
I guess it must be the developers preference. "Easier to maintain" probably means "Easier for me to read & change". Heh Verilog ain't that bad once you get used to it ;)
As for support / updates for other targets... they could just take the new VHDL versions of the files no? As long as the partitioning / signals don't change (too much) the board specific stuff (usually in separate files) should still interface to the core. After all... MiniMig was only targeted for the MiniMig v1.1 PCB and people added BSP for different boards no problem.
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Thus, the port of the MiniMig Core to VHDL may not be the best for the MiniMig core since the five other ports/targets are currently in Verilog and changes done to a VHDL MiniMig port will get out of Sync and be unique. This could cause support/updates to cease for the other targets.
As Jakub does a lot of the work for the other boards anyway, I'm sure that they'll all be switching to the VHDL version down the line as a result of this conversion to VHDL. However I don't know how much work is being done of the OCS/ECS versions of the core now that AGA and more is the central concern.
I'm glad that progress is being made, and am hopeful of a shipping final board later this year!
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Ah Alexh, good to hear from you, you are alive still then.
As far as I am aware all the other boards running the MiniMIG core have just updated the IO and used the code as is. The MCC project (french-shark I believe on this board) has added an SDRAM controller and is using Tobias' soft core. However, he has not made the source code available, so he is not contributing anything back.
Jakub has done really well adding a lot of support for AGA and bug fixes, but the code does need a re-write to improve area and timing. Jakub and I both feel happier in VHDL so that's what I'm doing. It's a step by step process optimizing one model at a time for now. You can mix and match Verilog and VHDL. Overtime the interface between the chips will change, but the top level will still be able to be used with the original MiniMIG board at least, assuming it fits.
There is nothing to stop people taking the new code and porting it to other platforms, although it is only the C-One and MCC with FPGAs big enough for the soft-core which can run the AGA version.
Both of these are essentially closed source commercial projects, and if they do take our code they will need to push back their adaptations and improvements back under the license agreement.
/Mike
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One other thing.
The Replay board has a set of standad IO modules to talk to the ARM CPU, input devices, DRAM, audio and video etc. One of the reasons to modify and modernize the Amiga softcore so it can use my blocks.
This results in a design which is actually a bit easier to port to other hardware.
These blocks are also used by the other softcores making it a lot easier to get new stuff up and running.
Mike
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Cheers Mike for the update. I hope you're not getting too frustrated. Remember: Beer is your friend. :D
You could not be more right :-)
Espen
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One other thing.
The Replay board has a set of standad IO modules to talk to the ARM CPU, input devices, DRAM, audio and video etc. One of the reasons to modify and modernize the Amiga softcore so it can use my blocks.
This results in a design which is actually a bit easier to port to other hardware.
These blocks are also used by the other softcores making it a lot easier to get new stuff up and running.
Mike
Do you have some info on whether there is or will be a compatible C64 core that can read/write the SDCard ?
Espen
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I guess it must be the developers preference. "Easier to maintain" probably means "Easier for me to read & change". Heh Verilog ain't that bad once you get used to it ;)
I'd say it's just developer preference. In my case, Easier to maintain would mean I'd convert the CPU softcore to Verilog. VHDL is IMHO icky and gross but I like Verilog.
But having everything in a single language means one could simulate with an open-source simulator (either Icarus, Verilator or GHDL).
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Asfaik some logic can only be expressed in VHDL and not Verilog. Especially in regards to flank triggering and dependencies. Thoe Verilog is easier and VHDL is cumbersome.
You can all thank US Department of Defense for VHDL being based on ADA. Rather than start with a clean sheet and design a hardware description language based on its own merit. Where definition of states, dependencies, parallism, etc would be central.
It should be said that hadn't DoD put down the foot there would been a forrest of different HDL languages from each manufacturer all incompatible with eachother..
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Verilog is easier and VHDL is cumbersome.
In Verilog is too flexible for it's own good. It is very easy to make accidental syntactical mistakes which actually compile (and thus introduce bugs which are difficult to find) but in VHDL it is practically impossible.
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Do you have some info on whether there is or will be a compatible C64 core that can read/write the SDCard ?
Espen
Yes, I have a working C64 core but not an accurate SID at the moment.
Work is on-going reverse engineering the analog part of the chip at the moment (see visual6502.org for details of how it is done)
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The big advantage for me is the powerful simulation environment and the easy I can create records and complex data type to pass info around. You can do this all in Verilog, but it is a bit low level for me.
For example, in my Amiga video timing generator file is a bit longer, but easier to read, understand and maintain - in my opinion.
/Mike
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Yes, I have a working C64 core but not an accurate SID at the moment.
Work is on-going reverse engineering the analog part of the chip at the moment (see visual6502.org for details of how it is done)
I thought that there was a new C-One C64 core available with working SID emulation.
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yes, but last time I checked the c-one was bound up in some stupid non-disclosure deal which meant the source code (even though it is based on FPGA-64) cannot be distributed.
http://www.syntiac.com/fpga64.html
Daft.
So, we'll write our own SID and release it with an open license for the Replay board.
SID die shots:
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/neu/6581.html
http://oms.wmhost.com/misc/
I'll be checking the binaries for other boards to see if any of our code is used....
/Mike
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yes, but last time I checked the c-one was bound up in some stupid non-disclosure deal which meant the source code (even though it is based on FPGA-64) cannot be distributed.
http://www.syntiac.com/fpga64.html
Daft.
So, we'll write our own SID and release it with an open license for the Replay board.
SID die shots:
http://mail.lipsia.de/~enigma/neu/6581.html
http://oms.wmhost.com/misc/
I'll be checking the binaries for other boards to see if any of our code is used....
/Mike
Damn, that is a waste.
Even as a C-One owner I have a hard (almost impossible) time trying to find out what is going on (if anything) with the core developments. The Amiga core for the C-One seems to work for some people and is buggy as hell for others (like me).
The net result is that I power it up for a while, get frustrated and then mothball it for 6 months, which is a real shame as the potential for it is huge (actual C64/VIC-20 serial port, c64 cartridge port, printer port, IDE, A1200 clock port, etc).
My last attempt resulted in me finally getting the Amiga sound to work correctly, but a real SID fitted to the board (jumpers configured correctly) produced a single tone and became hot enough to fry an egg on in seconds.
Now if only the joystick detection on the new C-One Amiga core worked correctly like it did on the old one...
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I put the C-One under my desk and occasionally bring it out when someone posts a 'fix' to a mailing list, or releases a new core. I get excited that it might actually work since I paid... oh what $400 for it and have had it since 2005 ... but no, it still doesn't do what I want it to do, I get discouraged, and I put it back underneath the desk.
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I put the C-One under my desk and occasionally bring it out when someone posts a 'fix' to a mailing list, or releases a new core. I get excited that it might actually work since I paid... oh what $400 for it and have had it since 2005 ... but no, it still doesn't do what I want it to do, I get discouraged, and I put it back underneath the desk.
Sounds familiar. :)
On the plus side, the C64 and VIC-20 screens look fantastic via the VGA connector. ;)
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I can create records to pass info around.
ARGH! Please tell me you don't use record types on entity ports? ;)
Next you'll be using arrays of records of enumerated types (guaranteed to feck up almost any FPGA synthesis tool!)
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ARGH! Please tell me you don't use record types on entity ports? ;)
Next you'll be using arrays of records of enumerated types (guaranteed to feck up almost any FPGA synthesis tool!)
:) sometimes, although I try and minimize it.
The synthesis tools are pretty good at it now, only get problems occasionally with overloaded functions dealing with complex record types ....
You should see what we get up to in the ASICs..
/Mike
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Yes, I have a working C64 core but not an accurate SID at the moment.
Work is on-going reverse engineering the analog part of the chip at the moment (see visual6502.org for details of how it is done)
Great news. Is the SD card access also in place already for loading of D64 files just like ADF's on the MiniMig ?
And, will SID feature filter effects ?
Espen
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Sounds familiar. :)
On the plus side, the C64 and VIC-20 screens look fantastic via the VGA connector. ;)
Yep ;)
All I ever wanted out of the thing was to:
- Use the IEC port with real drives (fast loaders working properly)
- Use the 3.5" floppy as a 1581
- Use the onboard SID as ... well a SID
- Use the CF card to load D64s
- Use the IDE as... well a hard drive. CMD maybe?
- Use the extra RAM on there as maybe a 1750
All the 'other stuff' like expanded VIC or whatnot can come later.
In other words, I'd like to use it as my current 128D setup is now. But what I get is a C64 that loads games with graphical glitches, crashing fast loaders, and unused features. It's easier/cheaper to use a real C64.
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mikej, As you seem to work with ASIC design. Do you think it's realisable to create a design consisting of a plain matrix of CLB elements? as way to an open source FPGA chip?
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mikej, As you seem to work with ASIC design. Do you think it's realisable to create a design consisting of a plain matrix of CLB elements? as way to an open source FPGA chip?
You mean to make our own FPGA silicon? That's an enormous amount of money. You don't necessarily need a lot of people, I've seen it done with 4 or 5 chip designers, 9 or 10 software guys to make the place/route tools etc. And you'd need some legal to make sense of existing patents to keep yourself out of trouble. But the EDA tools are HUGE expensive. The legal part is likely also HUGE expensive. And you'll also likely need a few years of work time for anything to happen. I'm not sure it's worth the trouble...
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You mean to make our own FPGA silicon? That's an enormous amount of money. You don't necessarily need a lot of people, I've seen it done with 4 or 5 chip designers, 9 or 10 software guys to make the place/route tools etc. And you'd need some legal to make sense of existing patents to keep yourself out of trouble. But the EDA tools are HUGE expensive. The legal part is likely also HUGE expensive. And you'll also likely need a few years of work time for anything to happen. I'm not sure it's worth the trouble...
The first FPGA was put on the market in 1985 (http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Xilinx-Inc-Company-History.html) so any patents for a plain matrix setup is likely obsolete many times over (5yrs). So for that part one can just make a simple circuit and duplicate it over and over. It won't be as good as the current topsellers but the point is to make a huge matrix available without the entanglements that currently exists.
As for software there already exist some really serious tries to replicate the existing routing software and that's with a unknown chip layout. Making the same effort for a simple and known layout should be way easier. Besides there are a lot of people prepared to write open source software..
A configurable logic matrix chip without ties to corporate directions and without ties to a specific platform would be of significant benefit in the long run.
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The first FPGA was put on the market in 1985 (http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Xilinx-Inc-Company-History.html) so any patents for a plain matrix setup is likely obsolete many times over (5yrs). So for that part one can just make a simple circuit and duplicate it over and over. It won't be as good as the current topsellers but the point is to make a huge matrix available without the entanglements that currently exists.
As for software there already exist some really serious tries to replicate the existing routing software and that's with a unknown chip layout. Making the same effort for a simple and known layout should be way easier. Besides there are a lot of people prepared to write open source software..
A configurable logic matrix chip without ties to corporate directions and without ties to a specific platform would be of significant benefit in the long run.
Getting anything designed will require a lot of money from someone. I can't imagine being completely free of corporate direction type issues, whatever you think those are. And I think there's enough FPGA and other chip patents to wade through and avoid that it would be a big effort to stay clean. And you could still get sued just for the giggles of it and have to pay for that fight, valid attack or not.
In the time it would take, we could be making interesting cores for existing FPGAs, I think that makes way more sense. I'd rather play with an FPGA Replay or other existing board, improving Minimig and adding new stuff, than spending 3+ years making a chip, debugging it, debugging software, and then start making fun cores and stuff.
I've done silicon layout of FPGA chips. Spent 8 or 9 years doing that in a small team. In that time was two technology generations based on an existing archtecture. I don't know how long it takes to define the architecture and code up RTL of that. I do know it takes a LOT of time just for layout implementation of whatever architecture, and I have an idea of how much the tools cost and how much masks cost, I know it takes a LLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTT of money from someone. Others are free to go at it, but I think the big money guys at Xilinx and Altera etc. are way better suited to making FPGA silicon. I can't imagine seeing such a project happen, just because of the money if nothing else.
I'd be interested to see if anyone ever does such a thing, but I expect I'd still prefer Xilinx/Altera big corp chips due to better performance and features.
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I completely agree with Billt. Yes, I work designing super large ASICs.
The RTL coding for an FPGA is really easy, the layout is a bit more tricky but not difficult.
However, you have to pay a lot of money for the tools and cell library - the basic building blocks optimised for the fab and process you are using.
The mask set costs for any modern process are HUGE. Then you have to design the place and route software which is many many person years of work.
I can get a modern FPGA on a 28n process for a few $ in volume, because the big boys split the development cost between zillions of customers.
Both Xilinx and Altera provide decent free software, so I would rather spend my time using start of the art devices than designing them in this case :)
/Mike
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As mikej says Altera & Xilinx makes good and affordable FPGA. There is no reason to compete with them.
But an ASIC for a stable version of the AGA core + cpu can be interesting to improve performances. For that you can use Hardcopy chip from Altera between fpga and asic. It's an FPGA without the memory layer and with fixed routes. So with your FPGA design you can have a fastest chip without redesigning it from scratch (just deal with some timing issues).
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I saw the thread about a dead CatWeasel (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56144) and the problems to find the fault. As he has to make the right combination of attached hardware, interface hardware, drivers, configuration, and user software for it to work. Something missing = doesn't work, no explenation.
So it might be a good idea to create some test software for the board. Once the flashmemory with test software is inserted it would test the onboard MCU. If it works it could blink with a easy recognisable cycle. Then the MCU is used to test the FPGA. The FPGA is used to test the video ports, audio, keyboard, mouse, flashport stresstest for timing errors and so on..
That way it's easier to diagnose "bricked" boards without resorting to a heap of external test instruments. It could help with bad soldering diagnose too.
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Yeah, I wish we was wishing for that with my MiniMig when some modding when astray. I fixed what I broke, but I was really worried that I might have broken something else without noticing...
If that can be done for the RetroReplay, it would save a huge amount of effort in support.
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yup, that's whats happening now - production test development.
Cheers,
Mike
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Don't be shy to show screenshots and youtube clips from the board :-D
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The only practical route would be a hardened FPGA but even then the NRE is pretty big.
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The only practical route would be a hardened FPGA but even then the NRE is pretty big.
There are alternatives: eASIC (http://www.easic.com) or ViASIC (http://www.viasic.com).
greets,
Staf.
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Just out of curiosity: What would it take to redesign the OSD so that it resembles the early startup and has mouse support ? When the OSD menu gets lots of options, it might be cool to have a graphical menu system for configuring --- unless this eats up all the ARM memory ?
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Just out of curiosity: What would it take to redesign the OSD so that it resembles the early startup and has mouse support ? When the OSD menu gets lots of options, it might be cool to have a graphical menu system for configuring --- unless this eats up all the ARM memory ?
Using the cursor keys to configure is fine by me. What I would like is a way to save several confurations:
Basic A500-like with KS1.3, OCS, 1 drive, etc @ 7MHz
Super Minimig with KS3.1, best chipset available, maximum RAM, hard file, etc
etc
etc
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Do we have any SysInfo results yet with a Minimig core?
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Do we have any SysInfo results yet with a Minimig core?
It was posted some time ago.
(http://www.yaqube.neostrada.pl/images/SysInfo28-256P-256.gif)
We are still working on it. Recently Tobias has implemented the missing bit field instructions and we are testing them now.
The performance will improve further when 32-bit wide transfers are implemented.
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32-bit wide transfers, where?
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32-bit wide transfers, where?
The CPU core still has only 16-bit data bus while the cache interfaces the memory with 32-bit bus and bursts data at 112 MB/s.
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It was posted some time ago.
We are still working on it. Recently Tobias has implemented the missing bit field instructions and we are testing them now.
The performance will improve further when 32-bit wide transfers are implemented.
Very nice!
I can see a few second hand Minimig v1.1 units appearing on eBay when this beastie gets released. :D
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The CPU core still has only 16-bit data bus while the cache interfaces the memory with 32-bit bus and bursts data at 112 MB/s.
Very Nice 112 MB/s :D but just out of curiousity, wouldnt it be better to also add a CPU 32-bit data bus aswell?
And would it be also possible to increase the Ram to say 256 Mb or greater?
Thanks
DC
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Very Nice 112 MB/s :D but just out of curiousity, wouldnt it be better to also add a CPU 32-bit data bus aswell?
And would it be also possible to increase the Ram to say 256 Mb or greater?
Thanks
DC
More RAM = more cost.
I think the goal should be to get this board out as it is and into the hands of customers and then look at making a v2 with higher specs if the demand supports it.
Let's face it, we have a machine here capable of performing above 68030 speeds at the price of a 68030 CPU card. Upgrading to a new, improved board ever 12-18 months and selling the old one should be within everyone's budget.
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Very Nice 112 MB/s :D but just out of curiousity, wouldnt it be better to also add a CPU 32-bit data bus aswell?
Well, yeah, that's presumably the reason yaqube earlier said it'll get faster once 32 bit transfers are turned on :)
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And would it be also possible to increase the Ram to say 256 Mb or greater?
I am assuming that any extra ram will be put on to the expander card.
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I am assuming that any extra ram will be put on to the expander card.
I assume someone elses wallet will get its expense expanded .. :P
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I'm looking forward to some videos of CPU intensive demos and games -- Doom, Gloom and what have you.
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Using the cursor keys to configure is fine by me. What I would like is a way to save several confurations:
Basic A500-like with KS1.3, OCS, 1 drive, etc @ 7MHz
Super Minimig with KS3.1, best chipset available, maximum RAM, hard file, etc
etc
etc
I second that. That's a very good feature, and it should not even take up much space either.
Espen
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More RAM = more cost.
I think the goal should be to get this board out as it is and into the hands of customers and then look at making a v2 with higher specs if the demand supports it.
Let's face it, we have a machine here capable of performing above 68030 speeds at the price of a 68030 CPU card. Upgrading to a new, improved board ever 12-18 months and selling the old one should be within everyone's budget.
True. And we have to bare in mind that when it comes to retro commodore hardware and the newer clones and fpga boards, we're opening our wallets as wide as we can without hesitation. We enjoy paying for them -- and that is a pretty rare phenomenon :-)
Espen
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I assume someone elses wallet will get its expense expanded .. :P
I already had to install a secondary expense-expanderadapter to the already piggybacked expense-expansion board. It has opened up for extremely high flow of expenses to the output of the wallet ;-)
Espen
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I'm looking forward to some videos of CPU intensive demos and games -- Doom, Gloom and what have you.
Definitely. It will be the same feeling as when you were a kid at Christmas eve ;)
Espen
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Yaqube / Mike: I am wondering what is the resolution which the Replay board (with daughterboard attached -- if that changes things resolutionwize) will work with. I a going to buy a LCD monitor which has the same native resolution as the Replay board will output so that I get best image quality (no scaling).
I think I discussed this some months ago with you, and the 1650x1080 resolution came up I think. Will we be able to run e.g. P96 so we can scale up our workbenches to this resolution ? If you have any data here, i'd be very glad to hear so I can plan the LCD i need to use :)
Espen
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Someone remind me of Mike's current ETAs for releasing this for sale? I'm gonna poop myself waiting ;)
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As soon as I finish testing the DRAM the first 10 will go out to early adopters.
Looking ok now.
I'll immediately kick off the assembly of another 50 or so early Feb.
/MikeJ
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As soon as I finish testing the DRAM the first 10 will go out to early adopters.
Looking ok now.
I'll immediately kick off the assembly of another 50 or so early Feb.
/MikeJ
Looking good, NICE.. !!
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I am wondering what is the resolution which the Replay board will work with.
Considering current architecture of the Minimig AGA core the maximum resolution seems to be 1680x1050. But it will be implemented later as its pixel clock is not the same as memory clock. Initially 1280x1024 will be available.
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It's too bad that it can't do 1920x1080. Really, even 1280x1024 is probably overkill, but it would have been fun to be able to heckle some of my pals about how their shiny Xbox360 or PS3 doesn't have any higher resolution than my Amiga. ;)
I'm looking forward to this being released. It's been along wait, and I think the community has done a very good job of being patient. Having our MiniMigs probably helped with that.
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Put me down for one as soon as the testers report all is well in the world of the FPGA Arcade :-) and there's a few screenshots and videos on YouTube showing off its capabilities.
And I have an old spare 1280x1024 LCD, so hurrah :-) - although could it support 960x1080 (half full hd) or 1920x540, or 960x540 I guess, as my new monitor is 1920x1080 and has a spare VGA and HDMI input.
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Someone remind me of Mike's current ETAs for releasing this for sale? I'm gonna poop myself waiting ;)
Haha...dude, you said it there :) It's gonna be very cool
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Hi there,
This board is great.
I also want to buy a board (or maybe two) as soon as they are exists. :)
So put me on the list.
I think Replay board will be not just a game board, but a good starter kit for FPGA.
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When it will have a working c64 core (with SID filters ???) that can load/save D64 files using the SD card --- then I will drool for 24 hours until paramedics come and give me a shot and one of those nice shirts which have the option to lock the arms on the back with all the straps....;-)
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Good news, I am pretty happy with the hardware testing and I've sending the first boards out to the other developers .....
/MikeJ
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Good news, I am pretty happy with the hardware testing and I've sending the first boards out to the other developers .....
/MikeJ
Nice... :)
I have got to get me one of these boards when they are ready for the masses..
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ME TOO me want! but i would say from the orders already i may have to wait till the second or third batch.. :D Grats
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Hi Mike. Any idea what'll be the asking price for the board ? Just ballpark will do...
:)
Espen
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Bump. Less news is better than no news :)
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@espskog, I think something like 200 EUR were mentioned earlier.
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@espskog, I think something like 200 EUR were mentioned earlier.
Which is a bargain considering a "new" refurbished A1200 will set you back around 140 EUR while the Minimig has extra RAM, scan doubler, PS2 mouse and keyboard adapters, SD card adapter and faster performance.
On top of that we also have to remember that this board isn't just an Amiga either. :)
Edit: I should also point out that if Yaqube delivers on the RTG front then a real A1200 would need a Mediator and Radion card to catch up.
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Good news, I am pretty happy with the hardware testing and I've sending the first boards out to the other developers .....
/MikeJ
@MikeJ
Is there a (published) list of those who've said they DEFINITELY want a board to buy (at either the first, more expensive batch or the latter cheaper ones)? As it would probably reduce the threat of email overload if there was and people could know they were on it and able to get one. If there isnt a list I strongly suggest there should be.
I hope I made it clear I definitely want one. It's my one hardware treat for the year 2011 and funds already set aside!
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Hi,
Sorry I realise it is a bit frustrating.
I've been on holiday last week and off to China again tomorrow - I'll pick up some more PCBs and components there as well. I've completed the minor layout updates for mass production. A few of the footprints needed tweaking and I've moved the DVI connector to make more space for the audio jack. I've also fixed the SVHS output resistor wiring.
All RevB boards with SVHS output are modifed, so there are no electrical differences in the boards.
I need to finish testing the first 10, but I don't want to release too many of them until we are happy with the soft core otherwise we will have unhappy people.
I have a list of everybody who has expressed an interest, and if I have spare non-developer boards (I will) I'll mail those who are first on the list. We should have lots and lots of boads soon.
Cheers,
Mike
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Unpopulated boards?
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I have a list of everybody who has expressed an interest, and if I have spare non-developer boards (I will) I'll mail those who are first on the list. We should have lots and lots of boads soon.
Not sure if I made that list. Put me on if I did not.
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Could you try to explain the main differences between NatAmi which just announced its board on this forum and the Replay board. I am definitely pro-replay but I am still curious about the side-by-side differences and how they operate + their potentials.
-What are the main technical differences ?
-Do they offer the same functionality ?
-Are they meant to cover the same area of use ?
-A big price difference ?
-Production difference ? (Handmade / Machine made)
-What can A do that B does not ?
//Espen
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-What are the main technical differences ?
68030 vs 68060 (no real-life difference)
32 vs 256 MByte memory
True Amiga vs New 3D graphics, audio channels etc.. (but unsupported)
PCI-slots on NatAmi.
-Do they offer the same functionality ?
NatAmi is intended to be a "new Amiga" rather than a compatible one.
-Are they meant to cover the same area of use ?
NatAmi is intended to have new functionality not found in real Amigas.
-A big price difference ?
"The "light" card without SVHS/composite is 200Euro."
No price for NatAmi, but proberbly higher.
-Production difference ? (Handmade / Machine made)
Fpgaarcade has the PCB factory made and the FPGA machine soldered. The rest of the components are hand soldered.
-What can A do that B does not ?
You can't under any circumstance tinker with NatAmi's HDL source code. Should it be released it's still locked to a specific FPGA vendor.
With FPGA Arcade ASFAIK, the HDL sources will be released for tinkering, hacking and feature proofing.
(I can be wromg ;))
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Big difference for me:
Natami: Closed design
Replay: Open source (with 68k AROS)
Personally the Replay is my preference, if it can replace my A1200 and A500 and support RTG/RTA then I'm happy :)
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Unpopulated boards?
How many times have you asked that now, and how many times have you been told "no"?
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"if I have spare non-developer boards"
Maybe it was spare because it's unpopulated. Unclear sentence. Anyway why get so excited over it..
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Could you try to explain the main differences between NatAmi which just announced its board on this forum and the Replay board. I am definitely pro-replay but I am still curious about the side-by-side differences and how they operate + their potentials.
-What are the main technical differences ?
-Do they offer the same functionality ?
-Are they meant to cover the same area of use ?
-A big price difference ?
-Production difference ? (Handmade / Machine made)
-What can A do that B does not ?
//Espen
The easiest way I can thing about putting it is A500 v A2000 or A1200 v A4000 where the FPGA Arcade is your cheaper, light-weight "wedge" and the Natami is going to be your "big box" (especially when you start plugging things into those PCI slots).
However, the FPGA Arcade is not just an Amiga. Look back through these posts and you'll find a list of other cores being worked on. So, before you switch on your FPGA Aracde, you'll have a choice of different computers or arcade games cabinets.
I intend to buy both, but I expect to be using the FPGA Aracde more because it will be my "fun" machine geared towards gaming and put into a small portable case (probably a keyboard like my Minimig) while the Natami will replace my A4000 tower and be aimed more towards word processing, graphics and internet.
I also expect to see a large price difference between the boards.
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You can't under any circumstance tinker with NatAmi's HDL source code. Should it be released it's still locked to a specific FPGA vendor.
With FPGA Arcade ASFAIK, the HDL sources will be released for tinkering, hacking and feature proofing.
HDL isn't so particular to a particular FPGA vendor. There's not different versions of Verilog language from one company to another, nor different VHDL language from one vendor to another.
Depending on if they make heavy use of a particular FPGA feature, you may have to port to equivalent feature in another chip, such as if using internal memories for buffers or FIFOs or something, or some hard-coded maths circuit. Not really the end of the world there though.
Minimig's HDL is already on multiple FPGAs from multiple vendors - Xilinx and Altera, no?
Natami: Closed design
Replay: Open source (with 68k AROS)
Replay the board is open-source, such as schematics and layout files? Or do you refer to Minimig port to this board being open-source, not the board itself? (Minimig is GPL, I hadn't heard Mike planning to give away his board design)
On a slightly different note, the other day I stumbled across another open-source Amiga,
aoOCS http://opencores.org/project,aoocs which uses Wishbone bus and thus can connect to a lot of OpenCores thingamies. Neat!
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-Do they offer the same functionality ?
NatAmi is intended to be a "new Amiga" rather than a compatible one.
I don't think this is correct. NatAmi should be fully compatible with OS3.x but because of the more expensive parts used there should be much more room for more advanced extensions than Replay.
greets,
Staf.
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HDL isn't so particular to a particular FPGA vendor. There's not different versions of Verilog language from one company to another, nor different VHDL language from one vendor to another.
True, but they use AHDL which is vendor specific. It's way more work than just porting it. Should it ever be released.
And if the developers and board leaves the final smoke, takes a bad direction etc.. Then only Minimig/Fpgaarcade users can design a new board and just move on.
One should however note that the sources for FpgaArcade are still closed, asfaik.
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True, but they use AHDL which is vendor specific. It's way more work than just porting it. Should it ever be released.
One should however note that the sources for FpgaArcade are still closed, asfaik.
I wasn't aware of AHDL. At work we use Verilog, and some customers bring in VHDL. But we're an ASIC company converting to a microcontroller company, we got out of FPGAs years ago and never had our own company language for those. Interesting they chose this, but it's their choice to make. I'd be curious to know why if they're ever for talking about such things, but obviously I haven't kept up on Natami forums to know about the AHDL thing. I wouldn't have chosen a lock-in language, as I'd want as much flexibility as I can get in case the future provides some opportunity to change FPGAs or go ASIC.
This does make any potential future port more work, yes. Perhaps like porting a program from C++ to Java.
Minimig for FPGAArcade board doesn't need to release sources until binaries are published. I wouldn't expect those to come out until they're satisfied it's working reliably.
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@ALL: Thanks for all the discussions on the topics i raised. Nice to see so many others are eager to see the Replay board "on the shelves" sometime very soon :)
Personally, I will go for the Replay board as I believe it is the coolest of them all. I will of course add the daughterboard and I do hope thet RTG will be supported in the future so I can use the Replay board also as my "dekstop amiga" :-)
Thumbs up for MikeJ and Yaqube and also to the original minimig-author who started this whole crazyness ;)
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-Production difference ? (Handmade / Machine made)
Fpgaarcade has the PCB factory made and the FPGA machine soldered. The rest of the components are hand soldered.
This was the case for the RevA boards, but RevB boards are double sided and machine made. The manufacturing is completely set up and the boards can be knocked out in high volume.
The code and schematics are/will be open source, the PCB layout is not.
The Replay board also has a daughter board connector to add USB/Ethernet/CPU and more memory.
/Mike
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Could you release the PCB layout in 5 years for free?
Such that if anyone whishes to have a board done could do so at a time when getting in contact with the original maker might be hard.
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I like the idea of the daughterboard.
Hope everything is going well with the board bring-up and the Amiga core!
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"Could you release the PCB layout in 5 years for free?"
If I evey stop making the board then I will publish the gerber files for production. However it is a 6 layer card and it costs a lot in NRE to produce the boards, so I don't see them being any use.
You also need to produce paste masks to assemble the board, which are very expensive.
In 5 years I hope we will be making Replay3 boards based on Spartan8 or something..
/MikeJ
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In 5 years I hope we will be making Replay3 boards based on Spartan8 or something..
/MikeJ
That's the spirit ;)
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In 5 years I hope we will be making Replay3 boards based on Spartan8 or something..
/MikeJ
Sounds good to me!
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I figured the board is a bit complicated regarding manufacturing. But it's good to have a last resort should all things go murphy ;)
Btw, how does it work in regards to the FPGA. Does the Chinese factory order those from Xilinx. Or you send it to them?, in case you send them, how do you make sure they aren't simply "lost" by the factory ? ;)
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Bump....
Anyone have something to post ? Any news on progress ?
How abour the daughterboard. We're dying to hear how it goes :)
Maybe some specs ?
Espen
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Bump....
Anyone have something to post ? Any news on progress ?
How abour the daughterboard. We're dying to hear how it goes :)
Maybe some specs ?
Espen
The first 500 boards were shipped to customers last week. Haven't you got your yet?
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I'm still in China but I have got almost enough parts now to build another 50 boards. Jakub has his up and running. I'll post some vids when I get home early this week.
/Mike
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I'm still in China but I have got almost enough parts now to build another 50 boards. Jakub has his up and running. I'll post some vids when I get home early this week.
/Mike
and just in case anyone took my last post seriously, I should point out that I was kidding. :D
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I'm still in China but I have got almost enough parts now to build another 50 boards. Jakub has his up and running. I'll post some vids when I get home early this week.
/Mike
Awesome, great news.
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-Production difference ? (Handmade / Machine made)
Fpgaarcade has the PCB factory made and the FPGA machine soldered. The rest of the components are hand soldered.
This was the case for the RevA boards, but RevB boards are double sided and machine made. The manufacturing is completely set up and the boards can be knocked out in high volume.
The code and schematics are/will be open source, the PCB layout is not.
The Replay board also has a daughter board connector to add USB/Ethernet/CPU and more memory.
/Mike
Are there any pictures of the FPGA Arcade with the daughter card 060 CPU installed? Does the daughter card sit on top of it in a perpendicular direction, or is it flat to keep the form factor as small as possible?
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The daughter board is flat. There is a picture of my CPU sitting on the prototype patch card if you scroll down far enough on the website. Jakub has a similar board with ethernet/usb on it which I am working to adapt for the RevB board now.
Best,
Mike
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Looking forward to it. (BTW: I've got a tray of MC68060RC50 E41J's somewhere if you need one or two)
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I'm still in China but I have got almost enough parts now to build another 50 boards. Jakub has his up and running. I'll post some vids when I get home early this week.
/Mike
Where are the vids :-) ???
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boards #4 and #5 running here. I have the video camera out, but haven't had time yet to film it.
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Well, I posted a pic of it running on my website (http://www.fpgaarcade.com)
Attempting to video it, proving tricky.
It's running AGA chipset, 68020 core and workbench 40.42.
It is still outputting standard PAL video at the moment, so it is as flickery as the original...
/MikeJ
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Awesome news - I take it the full 68020 core is Yaqube's enhanced TG68 core?
Can't wait to get one of these!
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Very cool - can't wait to see video :)
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may we see some benchmark please?
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may we see some benchmark please?
There was this one not too long ago:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=608422&postcount=90
desiv
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Well, I posted a pic of it running on my website (http://www.fpgaarcade.com)
Attempting to video it, proving tricky.
It's running AGA chipset, 68020 core and workbench 40.42.
It is still outputting standard PAL video at the moment, so it is as flickery as the original...
/MikeJ
It has S-Video out? Grab a $20 cheapo video grabber from Walmart and plug the FPGA Replay output directly into that and grab it to a MPEG file.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3504456&CatId=1428
Nice case. I still want to see if I can cram one into a keyboard. :)
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Wow! This will be the year 68K strikes back.
AROS 68K +ROMs
Natami
FPGA Replay Board
Permagrin.
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ok according to sysinfo it is only 7.7777777777.. slower than 060/100
(if so it needs to be about 4 times fater to catch up with 060/50)
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boards #4 and #5 running here. I have the video camera out, but haven't had time yet to film it.
Very exciting stuff Mike! You have our (almost undivided) attention and more than a few Amiga users are holding their breath, waiting for you to release the FPGA Arcade for sale to the general public.
What you have done is a great step forward from the original MiniMig (not saying that you built your design on top of Dennis' work, but it is a very similar device).
I will remain patient, as I am more likely to wait to purchase one of your boards after you have had the time to manufacture and complete the building of the second 50 boards.
Have you thought about ever trying to sell this as a complete product through regular retail channels? I know that to do that would be a whole new world of headaches and hassle, as it would probably require you to obtain a license from Amiga Inc. for the Kickstart ROM and Workbench files, but it appears that Amiga Inc. might be more open to selling a limited license than they have been in the past. (I know most people here will Boo & Hiss, saying screw Amiga Inc.'s license, but if you want to sell thousands of these as a commercial product, you would have to stay legal, unless you want to be added to the long list of people sued by Amiga Inc.)
You could probably sell this idea to a Chinese toy manufacturer and let them fight with Amiga Inc. for obtaining the license and you could just walk away with a fat check in your pocket. I am sure there would be some toy, or electronic company that would see a potential for a profit if they could reduce the production costs to get a complete FPGA Arcade product on the store shelves at a price below all the game consoles and advertise it as a complete retro-gaming device.
Getting licenses to run games for so many different retro gaming devices/computer systems might be very difficult, or impossible legally, but "Word of Mouth" advertising between the users of such a device would quickly have most of them searching the Internet for all the files they would need to run more games from Arcade consoles, C64, Amiga, Atari, Nintendo, Game Boy, etc.
Probably too much trouble for you to want to get into such a proposition, but if you put the idea into the right person's ear in China, the possibility is there that you could see a nice paycheck for all your efforts to create this great design. Putting this idea into the wrong person's ear could have your design stolen from you and you could see someone else profit from your ideas and designs, with zero money going into your pockets.
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ok according to sysinfo it is only 7.7777777777.. slower than 060/100
(if so it needs to be about 4 times fater to catch up with 060/50)
And the one you designed is how fast again? :)
Why do people have to be so negative about positive things...
It's not Natami. It is as fast as it was designed to be...
I'm happy with that..
desiv
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And the one you designed is how fast again? :)
Why do people have to be so negative about positive things...
It's not Natami. It is as fast as it was designed to be...
I'm happy with that..
desiv
Me too (and many others I suspect)
@MikeJ, will the board ship with a cut out plate for standard cases? Would probably add little to the BOM but would be so much more useful than not having it ;)
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I am trying to find a supplier for the ATX panel.
It's a bit complex as the production boards move the DVI connector slightly, you can see the audio connector is at an angle so I can get the DVI to VGA adapter in.
We also have the daughter board, so may add cut-outs for ethernet/usb etc.
So, yes but not just yet.
/M
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Amigadave,
Thinking about it I did mail a few people about licenses but didn't get a response. I need to follow up.
The big thing now is the complete re-write of the codebase. Jakub is doing great with the new additions, but I am restructuring and cleaning up all the older code.
There is a risk of the code being re-used, but that's what you get with open source code....
I fully expect to increase the performance of the internal CPU as well.
/Mike
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Amiga Inc. don't own the rights anymore do they? I thought everything was deemed to be the property of Hyperion following the court case?
With the Kickstart ROM replacement work being done there may be no need for a license soon.
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Exactly sell it with free open source Boot-ROM and OS. And get rid of the whole issue. Doesn't seem reasonable to be responsible for user actions.
(any link where to download this AROS m68k ROM?)
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Exactly sell it with free open source Boot-ROM and OS. And get rid of the whole issue. Doesn't seem reasonable to be responsible for user actions.
(any link where to download this AROS m68k ROM?)
aros.org has a download link for nightlies, or you can get the latest WinUAE beta's - WinUAE now comes with a "built in" AROS ROM.
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Amiga Inc. don't own the rights anymore do they? I thought everything was deemed to be the property of Hyperion following the court case?
With the Kickstart ROM replacement work being done there may be no need for a license soon.
OS4 is the only thing Hyperion owns.
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Amiga Inc. don't own the rights anymore do they? I thought everything was deemed to be the property of Hyperion following the court case?
I think Cloanto is the place to be. The AresOne is sold with a Amiga Forever OEM version for the kickstart ROMs in the UAE emulation under AROS.
greets,
Staf.
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OS4 is the only thing Hyperion owns.
Pretty sure that's not true.
in 30 September 2009, Hyperion was granted an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1
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in 30 September 2009, Hyperion was granted an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1
I hope McEwen suck on that really hard *grin*
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I think Cloanto is the place to be. The AresOne is sold with a Amiga Forever OEM version for the kickstart ROMs in the UAE emulation under AROS.
greets,
Staf.
Selling the FPGA Replay Board with an OEM copy of AmigaForever would probably be the simplest solution, until the Kickstart replacement is completed.
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Selling the FPGA Replay Board with an OEM copy of AmigaForever would probably be the simplest solution, until the Kickstart replacement is completed.
I don't think Cloanto has rights to do that.
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And the one you designed is how fast again? :)
Why do people have to be so negative about positive things...
It's not Natami. It is as fast as it was designed to be...
I'm happy with that..
desiv
you think this comparison looks bad for the fpga arcade (especially the softcore is still wip) and i was going to bash it? i quoted a 060/100 (there is only one such yet to my knowledge) and a regular 060/50, which is the fastest official reference amiga hardware there is. which means the softcore could have yet a realistic chance to catch up with 060 given some improvements. which in turn may support the theory that natami core could in fact be even faster. good things are going on. why do you people always try to assume an intended insult is beyond me.
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Pretty sure that's not true.
Prety sure it is.
30 September 2009, Hyperion was granted an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1 in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market AmigaOS 4.x and subsequent versions of AmigaOS (including AmigaOS 5).
Means they have a license to use AmigaOS 3.1 for development and marketing of AmigaOS 4 and above.
Doesn't mean they own it, it actually means they don't own it, but they have the right to use it.
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Amigadave,
I fully expect to increase the performance of the internal CPU as well.
/Mike
thats what i expect as well. thanks.
aros 68k is progressing well so i think soon there is an kickstart replacement for everyday use. even if 100% compatibility is a tough goal.
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why do you people always try to assume an intended insult is beyond me.
That's a mistake on my end then. I'm guessing it's just a language barrier issue..
It certainly sounded like (and still does when I re-read it, but maybe that's just me) a negative comment about the speed.
Since that wasn't intended, mea maxima culpa... :)
desiv
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i think the speed comparison is unpartial. depends what you read into it yourself, i think. tobiflex is also still working on his core, even if he admitted not to be so much motivated at times. bitfield instructions are being implemented.
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Does the hardware provide direct access to the digital audio within the audio logic?
Real Amigas have integrated DACs, so there's no way to get digital audio output, but it should be possible to bypass the DACs in FPGA implementations of the platform.
Having digital audio to go along with the digital video signal would be really nice.
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Selling the FPGA Replay Board with an OEM copy of AmigaForever would probably be the simplest solution, until the Kickstart replacement is completed.
The AROS m68k ROM is supposed to be completed at 2011-03-31 (http://www.power2people.org/projects/profile/6), ie in 20 days. I guess the FPGA Replay Board won't be done in that time.
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i think the bounty has already been approved complete, which doesnt mean you can run just any 68k application fine. this will be ongoing work for yet some time.
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"Does the hardware provide direct access to the digital audio within the audio logic?
Real Amigas have integrated DACs, so there's no way to get digital audio output, but it should be possible to bypass the DACs in FPGA implementations of the platform.
Having digital audio to go along with the digital video signal would be really nice. "
Yes if required. The FPGA can output the signals which would go the DAC as spdif coded, so you just need to buffer an IO pin. I was thinking of adding a connector for this on the daughter board.
MikeJ
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"Does the hardware provide direct access to the digital audio within the audio logic?
Real Amigas have integrated DACs, so there's no way to get digital audio output, but it should be possible to bypass the DACs in FPGA implementations of the platform.
Having digital audio to go along with the digital video signal would be really nice. "
Yes if required. The FPGA can output the signals which would go the DAC as spdif coded, so you just need to buffer an IO pin. I was thinking of adding a connector for this on the daughter board.
MikeJ
How is the daughterboard coming along ? Would be cool to see some specs for its current revision. Just so we have something to fuel our excitement yet another notch on the drool-scale :-D
//Espen
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Even though this board is MiniITX, it would be cool that someone could custom made a plastic casing that is perfectly made for the replay board + additional holes for the daughterboard connectors. That way we'd have a very small footprint.
Like the cool ones made for the MiniMig boards. With such a small box, it could easily be glued/taped to the back of a sexy looking LCD, making it a killer setup if you add a wireless keyboard and mouse like the ones from Apple etc.
//Espen
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If mikej posts dimensional specifications with a no guarantee disclaimer, it could be done.
There could be a market for a board that joins S/P-dif and DVI into an integrated HDMI signal ;)
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If mikej posts dimensional specifications with a no guarantee disclaimer, it could be done.
There could be a market for a board that joins S/P-dif and DVI into an integrated HDMI signal ;)
This might be a job for the daughterboard then :-)
OR a daughterboard on the daughterboard....a grand-daughterboard :laughing:
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Problem is that HDMI lawyer monsters will attack you.. ;)
So such board can't be sold.. but it can be etched :P
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i think the bounty has already been approved complete, which doesnt mean you can run just any 68k application fine. this will be ongoing work for yet some time.
Just to further explain the situation, the bounty requirements may be fulfilled but those requirements weren't asking for a complete and 100% AmigaDOS 3.1 binary compatible rom image. That's more of a longer term goal. Certain drivers aren't yet completed for fully supporting the Amiga hardware in the AROS kickstart and some things have never been started, even in the mainline aros code base, such as a printer.device.
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Maybe it can be made to work rudimentary?
I think we can live without printer.device for some time ;)
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you can download the nightly and throw it at your winuae to see for youreself how far things are working already.
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Problem is that HDMI lawyer monsters will attack you.. ;)
So such board can't be sold.. but it can be etched :P
So, how about "giving" it away ;) -- or just "accidentally" having the HDMI attached without the connector ? =)
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http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/fpgaarcade_replay_b01_dimensions.pdf
I have provided complete placement data for interested people as well. As the production board moves the SD connector a little I would wait a bit longer ...
Loads of DVI + audio to HDMI combiner boxes out there :
http://www.amazon.com/Audio-SPDIF-Toslink-Converter-Adapter/dp/B0015YYOQQ
Personally, I just use a DVI to HDMI cable (same protocol) and wire the audio with a 3.5mm jack to RCA into the TV.
I should be getting more boards finished, but I'm busy watching loads of old amiga demos on the big plasma ....
/Mike
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Hmm.. Amiga Demo via SP-dif and HDMI on a 50" screen. Now that's quite a different experience than the enviroment under which they were created. :D
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I have two adapters which enables you to connect PSX controllers to any amiga/c64. Which again means, wireless adapters should also work. Which then leads to the ability to have wireless joypads on the minimig/replayboard and in combination with a wireless kb+mouse you are all set for a very nifty gamingmachine :-)
//Espen
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Short video of it running AGA workbench at 640x480
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBIAncdZdf8
(Not much daylight in Sweden at the moment, so the camera is busy focusing on the brightest thing around which is the screen)
More to come..
/MikeJ
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WOW! It feels so smooth man!!!
Congratz! Awesome work \o/
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Thanks.
I should say it is a joint effort between Tobias, Jakub, Dennis and I ....
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Brilliant effort guys, this is a really promising and exciting project.
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Nice to see it in action. Those screens pop up like greased lightning!
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When can we buy?
:)
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Thanks.
I should say it is a joint effort between Tobias, Jakub, Dennis and I ....
Is Dennis still involved in this, or any other project that is similar to his MiniMig, or is he just watching from the sidelines now and admiring what has evolved from his initial efforts?
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Another one with a few demos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKmdGUK9XcI
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Awesome! Damn that's quick!
Are the 8MB Fast the cap btw?
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OOOH! My precioussss!
I definately want to buy one, is there some sort of waiting list?
How many units are planned?
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Nice vids, looking good Mike.
Also the benchmark looks nice 19.20 x A600 are good speeds indeed.
I hope Yacube is also getting along with his daugtherboard, it's a bit quiet.
@Yacube is there some new info to share please ;-)
@MikeJ Looks like it's up and running, is there any new production indication for the remaining boards ?
I'm I corect to say the the production round will be for 90 boards (you have been collecting parts again)
keep up the good work
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Awesome to see those demos running. Is that a copper palette bug in Odyssey?
It looks like good progress is being made!
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That's impressive. I'm sold.
So on the benchmark is it slightly faster than a 68030@50mhz?
Is it possible to make the graphics go faster than the original A1200 or is it timing locked?
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@Yacube is there some new info to share please ;-)
Today I got the bare daughter board from the PCB shop. I need some time to assemble it completely but I've managed to take a picture of it sitting over the Replay Rev. A board :)
(http://minimig.net/yaqube/images/RPX060PCB.JPG)
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AhhhHHHheeeeeeeeeee! Hawt!
I gotta sell some stuff...
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Today I got the bare daughter board from the PCB shop. I need some time to assemble it completely but I've managed to take a picture of it sitting over the Replay Rev. A board :)
So incredibly awesome!!!
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Today I got the bare daughter board from the PCB shop. I need some time to assemble it completely but I've managed to take a picture of it sitting over the Replay Rev. A board :)
(http://minimig.net/yaqube/images/RPX060PCB.JPG)
*THUMP*
That was my jaw hitting the ground :lol: I like what I see here, Awesome effort yaqube !!
Can I ask for the detailed spec's of this daughterboard?? (appart from the obvious, 68060 etc, I am too lazy to search for it) :lol:
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Damn!!! This is indeed some serious pr0n not for the faint hearted!
Amazing efforts guys! \o/
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Today I got the bare daughter board from the PCB shop. I need some time to assemble it completely but I've managed to take a picture of it sitting over the Replay Rev. A board :)
(http://minimig.net/yaqube/images/RPX060PCB.JPG)
Bloody hell, a 68060, 3 USB sockets, Ethernet, battery (for a clock?) and I suspect extra RAM! What's the MicroSD card slot for? Extra storage or required files for the board to work?
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I think Natami just ceased to become relevant....
Modern (fast memory) + a 100Mhz 060 would run OS 3.9 at a 'reasonable' speed I reckon.
If this comes off, even some (would-be) NG Amiga user's might change their mind ;)
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I think Natami just ceased to become relevant....
Modern (fast memory) + a 100Mhz 060 would run OS 3.9 at a 'reasonable' speed I reckon.
If this comes off, even some (would-be) NG Amiga user's might change their mind ;)
Yeah, with the daughter card, this pretty much satisfies any persons hopes for a new wave classic. Wha Buhhh , I, too many things happening, stay in control.
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Hang on!!! The YouTube Description says: AGA and an 020 CPU, when did the FPGA 68k core reach 020 compatability? My lust increases :)
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Hang on!!! The YouTube Description says: AGA and an 020 CPU, when did the FPGA 68k core reach 020 compatability? My lust increases :)
They have been implementing 020 instructions into the 68k softcore for quite a while now. I am not sure how close they are to completing that work, but I think, IIRC, they have done enough to allow the installation of AmigaOS3.9.
Lots of lust for this project as it gets nearer to a release date.
Has anyone found some great small case designs to put it into yet?
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AhhhHHHheeeeeeeeeee! Hawt!
I gotta sell some stuff...
Me tooooooooooo!
A Classic Amiga clone that is smaller & faster than most A3000/A4000 accelerator cards. And it includes USB, RAM, micro SD card, DVi & S-video output, plus lots more.
Anyone want to buy the ACA030/25 accelerator for the A600 that I just bought? I still haven't been able to fix my keyboard problem and think I need a new membrane for the A600 keyboard. (any one have an A600 keyboard membrane they could sell?)
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Amigabook soon ;)
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@Yacube,
Whoa yacube, now that looks very nice.
I'm happy to see you have indeed put a RTC on it :-)
What I Want to know is how you are going to get it connected to the revB boards,
Because the connectors (joy,mouse,keyboard ect.) are all dubble stacked on the revB boards.
So the connection to the expansion connector have to be very long, or are you ussing some mini cable ?
But a big hand for your disign again looks very nice.
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Very nice!!
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Rumored to be under 200 euros? Minimig AGA, hmmm very tempted to start selling my classic gear off ;)
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@Yacube,
Whoa yacube, now that looks very nice.
I'm happy to see you have indeed put a RTC on it :-)
What I Want to know is how you are going to get it connected to the revB boards,
Because the connectors (joy,mouse,keyboard ect.) are all dubble stacked on the revB boards.
So the connection to the expansion connector have to be very long, or are you ussing some mini cable ?
But a big hand for your disign again looks very nice.
Yes, it doesn't fit on the RevB boards. Yacube designed this as a prototype to test on the RevA board he already has - more space.
I am currently doing the layout for the RevB board (it has a cutout for the higher connectors) so it will sit just above the DVI connector.
/Mike
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@Mikej
Thank you for all great work!! Will it be possible to buy this masterpiece this year?
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The base board is currently starting beta testing with customers and will ramp in production in the next two months if everything goes well.
We'll need to see if expansion board works as planned, but it shouldn't be too far behind.
Best,
MikeJ
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@mikej
:)
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I think Natami just ceased to become relevant....
Modern (fast memory) + a 100Mhz 060 would run OS 3.9 at a 'reasonable' speed I reckon.
If this comes off, even some (would-be) NG Amiga user's might change their mind ;)
I think you need to do more research. This is not Natami's target level of performance.
Congrats to this project. This will be the ultimate retro hardware (simu/emu)lator.
Since it's going to be capable of emulating all retro hardware, what is the incentive to upgrade it further in future revisions thereby negating any future price drops? Also, the cost of this '060 board should be easier to pin down, are they known? '060's are not cheap regardless if they are going on a Natami or a Replay board.
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'060's are not cheap regardless if they are going on a Natami or a Replay board.
You can buy an 060 for about $40.
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You can buy an 060 for about $40.
I have a 68060 MASK E41J on my desk here, so I hope that Yacube will put a socket on the board so I can drop in this sucker... :-)
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You can buy an 060 for about $40.
It's my understanding that the higher-clocked ones can be pricey. Where as 50Mhz ones are cheap(er).
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MC68060&tab=Buy_Parametric_Tab&fromSearch=false
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Can somebody explain the performance difference between the 68060 and 68EC060 - the later lacking the MMU and FPU?
EC devices are much easier to get hold of. I am guessing when using an EC device the FPU and MMU (if required) are caught by the exception handler and implemented in software?
/MikeJ
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You can buy an 060 for about $40.
Where from?
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Strange from the link on freescale site
EC has both
LC has no FPU ???
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Dont use EC or LC 68060 in Amiga system, it will cause crash because Setpatch and 680x0.library's depend on existing FPU and MMU.
I do have an 68EC060 here for testing, it leaks FPU and program like sysinfo just crash at MFLOPS test.
WhichAmiga says: MC68LC060... MMU: present (and in fact working) - FPU: not available (true).
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AlexH "MC68060RC50, with the Mask 1E41J." are the ones to go for apparently..
Overclock and run cool.
I'll make some inquries in China next time I am there, they probably have buckets of them hidden away.
/MikeJ
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AlexH "MC68060RC50, with the Mask 1E41J." are the ones to go for apparently..
Overclock and run cool.
I'll make some inquries in China next time I am there, they probably have buckets of them hidden away.
/MikeJ
You'll probably find someone who will offer you 1000 of them and then some poor Chinese guy will spend a week unboxing brand new Amiga 4000Ts to yank the CPUs out of them. :D
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Where from?
http://cgi.ebay.ca/XC-68060-RC50-100-WORKING-/260618840054?pt=CPUs&hash=item3cae17e7f6
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http://cgi.ebay.ca/XC-68060-RC50-100-WORKING-/260618840054?pt=CPUs&hash=item3cae17e7f6
42 available...
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Strange from the link on freescale site
EC has both
LC has no FPU ???
LC has MMU but no FPU. EC has no MMU or FPU.
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LC has MMU but no FPU. EC has no MMU or FPU.
Not entirely true, as to read at prev. site... or the chip here is printed wrong.
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@Mikej
Why instead of supplying the expansion board with a built-in 68060, you just sell it in two variants, a cheaper one without 68060, only with its socket.
Another recommendation, is that you enable 5 volts on the cpu socket by changing a jumper, so that you may even use a 68040 and you may avoid 060 shortage or even allow price reduction this way (68040 are way cheaper).
PS: 68EC060 cpus are much more easily overclockable than their counterparts. A fact of life of the 68k line cpus is that the FPU is the less tolerant component to overclock, so if you get rid of it, you can go higher mhz.
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@Mikej
Why instead of supplying the expansion board with a built-in 68060, you just sell it in two variants, a cheaper one without 68060, only with its socket.
Why make 2 variants when you only need one? If you don't want the 68060 then you buy the main board with the soft CPU (ideal for most uses and gaming) and then buy the daughterboard if you fancy more power, USB, Ethernet, etc.
Mike's idea of having just one main board makes more economic sense. Two or more options is just going to add to the base cost.
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The base board's enough for me. I am assuming that in the course of the next couple of years the FPGA '020 core will evolve to '040 levels of performance too, but even if not a ~50MHz '30 isn't to be sniffed at! I'd rather chunky graphics were grafted onto the FPGA AGA core first.
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Great job on the replay stuff Mike. I had PM'd you about buying one of these when available will gladly get one of these babies.
So why exactly is the 060 so expensive I checked the freescale parts page...It's a 15 year old design I figure they could make if for pennies or a few bucks...
Is it that it's use today is strictly as a replacement part for military industrial complex projects? For consumer stuff I'd imagine there are a dozen or more economical options..
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Another couple of years, and I would hope that Mike has found the bottlenecks that we can assume exist in this revision (As they do in every computer) and uses any new tech that becomes available, due to new design, or price drops, and we can buy a version 2 that dramatically improves on the current design. We get two years of really cool retro computing, Mike gets to sell us another product, we get new toys, and then we get a few more years before Mike release a version 3.
Rinse. repeat.
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Not entirely true, as to read at prev. site... or the chip here is printed wrong.
An EC is an LC that has a MMU that tested bad or that was never tested.
Don't count on the MMU of an EC to be working 100%, if at all.
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Why make 2 variants when you only need one? If you don't want the 68060 then you buy the main board with the soft CPU (ideal for most uses and gaming) and then buy the daughterboard if you fancy more power, USB, Ethernet, etc.
Mike's idea of having just one main board makes more economic sense. Two or more options is just going to add to the base cost.
You are wrong in your assumption, you should understand you dont need to modify the design, just the amount of components you place on the expansion board (one less). Besides it allows you not to tie the board sales to the availability of Mikej to source 68060 cpus and even allow him to target customers with less income (a 68060 cpu in the 2nd hand market is at least $40).
So this second choice gives both Mikej and customers more freedom without any overhead.
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So why exactly is the 060 so expensive I checked the freescale parts page...It's a 15 year old design I figure they could make if for pennies or a few bucks...
I'm just speculating here but I think there could be a couple of reasons: do they still make 060s any more? If not it's a dead product and they're keeping the prices at what they were when they were new. They're doing so because they want to drive developers towards different CPU architectures, and bleed the people who insist they "need" 060s for whatever reason for as much as they can.
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You are wrong in your assumption, you should understand you dont need to modify the design, just the amount of components you place on the expansion board (one less). Besides it allows you not to tie the board sales to the availability of Mikej to source 68060 cpus and even allow him to target customers with less income (a 68060 cpu in the 2nd hand market is at least $40).
So this second choice gives both Mikej and customers more freedom without any overhead.
Not really. It adds components thus price so those who don't want a different CPU end up paying for something they don't need. Best to keep any "extras" (and the cost of them) on the daughterboard for those who want them. Remember, you don't need the daughterboard for the FPGA to run, it is an optional extra and the chances are that if you're they type who wants a 68040/68060 then you'll also want USB, Ethernet and anything else you can get your mits on.
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So why exactly is the 060 so expensive I checked the freescale parts page...It's a 15 year old design I figure they could make if for pennies or a few bucks...
The problem is that nobody makes these CPUs anymore, so there aren't very many on the market. There's still demand for them, but they're in that nasty little area where there's not enough demand to warrant any significant production run, but there is enough demand to inflate the prices of the currently available devices on the market.
There are companies who specialise in this sort of business. They buy up stock of parts that are about to go obsolete and then they sell them on at a highly inflated price to desperate organisations who need to do a production batch but don't have the budget to design-out the obsolesence. I've had personal experience with parts that in their day cost a couple of pennies each, but are now being sold by said companies for £50 a time. That's a price inflation of about 2500 times. Believe it or not, we still paid this price because for the size of our production run it was far cheaper to suck up the £50 per part cost than to design and make a new PCB to accommodate a new part.
Hop on over to digikey and try to buy yourself a 68060 CPU in a one-off quantity. Sit yourself down before you look at the price ;-)
AH
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It probably won't affect availability of 60's for Amiga users, as they are probably stock on hand (not making them anymore?), but as I understand it, Freescale has a major plant in/near Sendai and the recent events have seriously affected them....
desiv
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Why make 2 variants when you only need one? If you don't want the 68060 then you buy the main board with the soft CPU (ideal for most uses and gaming) and then buy the daughterboard if you fancy more power, USB, Ethernet, etc.
Mike's idea of having just one main board makes more economic sense. Two or more options is just going to add to the base cost.
I have my own MC68060RC50 with the Mask 1E41J special for this board.
I think 2 variants are better 1 with and 1 without CPU just the socket, all happy.
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I have my own MC68060RC50 with the Mask 1E41J special for this board.
I think 2 variants are better 1 with and 1 without CPU just the socket, all happy.
You don't want USB, Ethernet, extra RAM and the RTC?
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You don't want USB, Ethernet, extra RAM and the RTC?
Sure I want one, I have the 060 on my desk for the daughterboard :-)
So two variations of the daughterboard will be fine one with and one without cpu
Why buy a other CPU when you have them @home on the shelf
And more RAM? Yes please !! But I want to know much RAM is on the daughterboard :-)
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AlexH "MC68060RC50, with the Mask 1E41J." are the ones to go for apparently..
Overclock and run cool.
I'll make some inquries in China next time I am there, they probably have buckets of them hidden away.
/MikeJ
I'm trying and failing to find a post I think from AlexH about having some laying around. The 060s I see on Ebay today look like "working" pulls and all seem to be in China. There's RC60s now too which I find interesting, back when I was looking for one some years ago there wasn't an RC60, only an RC50. I'd definitely only go with an RC part whichever one, I definitely don't want to leave out any features. :)
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I'm trying and failing to find a post I think from AlexH about having some laying around. The 060s I see on Ebay today look like "working" pulls and all seem to be in China. There's RC60s now too which I find interesting, back when I was looking for one some years ago there wasn't an RC60, only an RC50. I'd definitely only go with an RC part whichever one, I definitely don't want to leave out any features. :)
Ah, sorry - you and Gulliver are talking about the daughterboard! My mistake, I thought Gulliver wanted an empty socket on the main board. Yes, I can see the logic in supplying the daughterboard minus the CPU for those with spare chips.
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Ah, sorry - you and Gulliver are talking about the daughterboard! My mistake, I thought Gulliver wanted an empty socket on the main board. Yes, I can see the logic in supplying the daughterboard minus the CPU for those with spare chips.
Yes we were talking about the daughterboard. :)
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Yes we were talking about the daughterboard. :)
Yep, sorry about that. I could try and claim that Welsh is my native language, but that would be a poor excuse. :D
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I'd love specs on the daughtercard as well. I'll buy one of these in a heartbeat if I can run my BBS on it - needless to say the Ethernet option has me very interested.
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Make a daughterboard with another FPGA. Load 68060 softcore. Then we don't need to source any unobtainium ;)
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Just a small update: I've been able to get the 060 to run with a special monitor software. :) The next step is to design a dynamic bus sizing module to interface the CPU to the internal 16-bit bus of the Minimig core.
(http://www.minimig.net/yaqube/images/RPX060PCB2.JPG)
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Wow, we all really appreciate the updates, pics. Looking very fine.
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Nice going Yaqube, This board is tha Bombe... ;-)
Can't wait for this board to be ready (well I have to LOL)
Coun't me in baby hehehe...
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Just a small update: I've been able to get the 060 to run with a special monitor software. :) The next step is to design a dynamic bus sizing module to interface the CPU to the internal 16-bit bus of the Minimig core.
(http://www.minimig.net/yaqube/images/RPX060PCB2.JPG)
Nice work!! Is that the 060 from the Axx card I sent ? Is Q4 an approximate release-date ?
Espen
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Nice work!! Is that the 060 from the Axx card I sent ? Is Q4 an approximate release-date ?
Let's see if the base board actually becomes available first ;)
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Let's see if the base board actually becomes available first ;)
I believe it will be. Patience my friend :-)
(and patient we are...Commodore taught us that..hehe)
//Espen
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What sort of arcade platforms could this board conceivably recreate?
Would something like CPS1 or System-16 be out of the question?
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I'd love specs on the daughtercard as well. I'll buy one of these in a heartbeat if I can run my BBS on it - needless to say the Ethernet option has me very interested.
Lots of my questions about the daughter card are answered by MikeJ & Yaqube over on EAB at this: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=744483#post744483 link.
@freqmax,
Do you doubt that this project will be released?
I would think that the frequency and amount of information, including videos of the prototype running an AGA Workbench would have satisfied even the most skeptical members here.
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Thank you much for the link, Amigadave.
Stoked on getting one of these to run the BBS.
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Lots of my questions about the daughter card are answered by MikeJ & Yaqube over on EAB at this: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=744483#post744483 link.
Wow. Great questions you asked there Dave! :)
I love these little snippets:
Q: what clock speed was used for the 68060?
A: I have a rev 6 CPU and expect it to be running at 100 MHz or even over.
Q: What amount of RAM is planned on the expansion 060 card?
A: I have 128 MB of SDRAM. It will run with the same clock speed as the CPU does.
Q: the Micro-SD card for storage, like a hard drive?
A: Exactly. It's intended to be directly accessed as a Amiga hard drive. With the help of DMA the transfer rates will be much higher than with a hard file.
Q: Are the USB ports supported through Poseiden...?
A: We are going to use Poseidon.
This is going to be one hell of an Amiga. All we need is a fast 16 bit or 32 bit RTG mode to use for Workbench and Workbench friendly apps (such as IBrowse, Final Writer, etc) and it will be perfect.
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Thank you much for the link, Amigadave.
Stoked on getting one of these to run the BBS.
Got my BBS backup from 1993 waiting here ;-)
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Yes, I must admit that I am getting almost excited about this project finally being ready for sale to the masses.
As I have said before, it is nice to have so many different hardware projects that appear to be real and nearing completion. I can't remember a time when there was so much activity, since the end of Commodore when we still had a few companies that were in business and making Amiga peripherals. Not the same, but better than what we have had to choose from during the past decade.
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IS there a schematic for this somewhere? I would like to tak a crack at creating a case design for this. I stuck my mini-mig into an ITX case by using db9 cables and cutting a backplane out of styrene.
There are rapid manufacturing options out there. An stl file could be supplied and the end user can print out their own case.
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Yes, I must admit that I am getting almost excited about this project finally being ready for sale to the masses.
Yeah, ten years on and the spiritual successor to the BoXeR is nearly here.
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/boxer.html
It would be cool if the 060 board was renamed to BoXeR :D
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IS there a schematic for this somewhere? I would like to tak a crack at creating a case design for this. I stuck my mini-mig into an ITX case by using db9 cables and cutting a backplane out of styrene.
There are rapid manufacturing options out there. An stl file could be supplied and the end user can print out their own case.
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/fpgaarcade_replay_b01_dimensions.pdf
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/fpgaarcade_replay_b01_schematic_a2.pdf
There is an ATX power adapter I am finishing today which can be used to power on/off the power supply and feed the Replay board.
/MikeJ
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I guess I over looked this thread. I thought this was something I already knew about, but apparently it's something much bigger!
So we got this an Natami on the way hopefully! I think I'm going to want one of each!
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kedawa, CP1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP_System) and System 16 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sega_arcade_system_boards#Sega_System_16) should be doable.
Provided you don't loose the "keys" in the NVRAM first ;)
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Amazing stuff, I never owned or used an 060. I think this might be a good way to get introduced properly. :)
If I had to put this and Natami in a race to retail availability, I think this one will pull ahead, judging by the developments on the last week or so.
Wow. Great questions you asked there Dave! :)
I love these little snippets:
Q: what clock speed was used for the 68060?
A: I have a rev 6 CPU and expect it to be running at 100 MHz or even over.
Q: What amount of RAM is planned on the expansion 060 card?
A: I have 128 MB of SDRAM. It will run with the same clock speed as the CPU does.
Q: the Micro-SD card for storage, like a hard drive?
A: Exactly. It's intended to be directly accessed as a Amiga hard drive. With the help of DMA the transfer rates will be much higher than with a hard file.
Q: Are the USB ports supported through Poseiden...?
A: We are going to use Poseidon.
This is going to be one hell of an Amiga. All we need is a fast 16 bit or 32 bit RTG mode to use for Workbench and Workbench friendly apps (such as IBrowse, Final Writer, etc) and it will be perfect.
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Thank you much for the link, Amigadave.
Stoked on getting one of these to run the BBS.
DUDE...me too. I will certainly power my BBS with this as it is now running on a eUAE session on a ubuntu server. It works nice, but feels wrong :-)
It's like when you eat the last cookie from the jar. It's delicous, but you know you will pay later..:roflmao:
Our BBS has been running for 19 year now. So we're approaching the 20th anniversary, and what better way to celebreate it than to move it back to a more anti-intel platform like the replay board. Hehe
//Espen
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Yuummyyy.....my Replay board is payd for and soon in the mail waiting to be tested. Can't wait to get my hands on this board. It's gonna be supercool!!!
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Yuummyyy.....my Replay board is payd for and soon in the mail waiting to be tested. Can't wait to get my hands on this board. It's gonna be supercool!!!
It's your board so you can do what you like, but doesnt it feel a bit of a waste to just use the Replay for BBS? :)
Leave the PCs for the boring job of serving up data...
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It's your board so you can do what you like, but doesnt it feel a bit of a waste to just use the Replay for BBS? :)
Leave the PCs for the boring job of serving up data...
That argument sounds really sound to me. Use the Replay board to run other (less boring) software.
This '060 daughter card really makes the system attractive. Frankly, I don't think I'm going to want to pay out the nose for a Natami.
A nice, low cost '060 powered Amiga clone sounds cool though.
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That argument sounds really sound to me. Use the Replay board to run other (less boring) software.
This '060 daughter card really makes the system attractive. Frankly, I don't think I'm going to want to pay out the nose for a Natami.
A nice, low cost '060 powered Amiga clone sounds cool though.
Unless the '060 is used, you'll pay out the nose.
Natami is aiming for more performance and an '050 on the fpga. Hence it will *probably* cost less than a Replay with a *new* 060 and daughter card.
The Natami is still a step ahead in performance as an Amiga...and that's not an insult to the Replay. All you have to look at is the fpga used and the memory used.
However, the Natami will not be user-reprogrammable to run alternate platforms and that's where the Replay comes into its own market.
The Replay is going to be a great alternative to the Frankenstein method of accelerating classic Amigas...and run older alternate platforms. There is no ill will between the two teams.
FPGA technology is advancing the 68k platform. Minimig, Replay, Natami offer us NEW hardware at the performance and budget of your liking. This is a win for Amigans everwhere.
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Unless the '060 is used, you'll pay out the nose.
Natami is aiming for more performance and an '050 on the fpga. Hence it will *probably* cost less than a Replay with a *new* 060 and daughter card.
The Natami is still a step ahead in performance as an Amiga...and that's not an insult to the Replay. All you have to look at is the fpga used and the memory used.
However, the Natami will not be user-reprogrammable to run alternate platforms and that's where the Replay comes into its own market.
The Replay is going to be a great alternative to the Frankenstein method of accelerating classic Amigas...and run older alternate platforms. There is no ill will between the two teams.
FPGA technology is advancing the 68k platform. Minimig, Replay, Natami offer us NEW hardware at the performance and budget of your liking. This is a win for Amigans everwhere.
Will be hard to choose. Well, I hope we have a day where we have a hard choice to make; with these options. And lets hope one of these sees the light of day this year...
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Natami is aiming for more performance and an '050 on the fpga. Hence it will *probably* cost less than a Replay with a *new* 060 and daughter card.
Surely any core the Natami uses in FPGA (and thus performance) could also be used by the bare FPGA Arcade?
Already it has a working 680x0 core in FPGA capable of running WB3.x and running at insane speeds. As it looks like the 68060 will be running at 100MHz or more, I have to wonder whether the Natami '050 softcore will be able to keep up with a real 68060 at that speed.
It is going to be interesting to compare both machines.
From a pure "Amiga" point of view, I still see the Natami and FPGA Arcade as I used to view the A2000 and the A500 (or A4000 and A1200). The Natami seems destined for a nice big case, full of expansions and which never has the top fitted because you're always adding to it while the FPGA Arcade is going into a tiny case where you never have to mess with it. :)
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Surely any core the Natami uses in FPGA (and thus performance) could also be used by the bare FPGA Arcade?
Depends on the speed and size of the FPGA ( which also affects the cost ). Without the source code it will be tricky to adapt as well.
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@mikej
Any new video on its way? Maybe show some games? :afro:
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Unless the '060 is used, you'll pay out the nose.
Natami is aiming for more performance and an '050 on the fpga. Hence it will *probably* cost less than a Replay with a *new* 060 and daughter card.
The Natami is still a step ahead in performance as an Amiga...and that's not an insult to the Replay. All you have to look at is the fpga used and the memory used.
However, the Natami will not be user-reprogrammable to run alternate platforms and that's where the Replay comes into its own market.
The Replay is going to be a great alternative to the Frankenstein method of accelerating classic Amigas...and run older alternate platforms. There is no ill will between the two teams.
FPGA technology is advancing the 68k platform. Minimig, Replay, Natami offer us NEW hardware at the performance and budget of your liking. This is a win for Amigans everwhere.
I can't picture sourcing an '060 any other way than used.
And of course you're right, the Natami is designed as an enhanced Amiga.
Frankly all I'm really interested in under WB3.X is legacy software.
For new software I'll stick with MorphOS.
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Surely any core the Natami uses in FPGA (and thus performance) could also be used by the bare FPGA Arcade?
Already it has a working 680x0 core in FPGA capable of running WB3.x and running at insane speeds. As it looks like the 68060 will be running at 100MHz or more, I have to wonder whether the Natami '050 softcore will be able to keep up with a real 68060 at that speed.
It is going to be interesting to compare both machines.
From a pure "Amiga" point of view, I still see the Natami and FPGA Arcade as I used to view the A2000 and the A500 (or A4000 and A1200). The Natami seems destined for a nice big case, full of expansions and which never has the top fitted because you're always adding to it while the FPGA Arcade is going into a tiny case where you never have to mess with it. :)
NATAMI's fpga is larger and faster than Replay's so unless the team licenses only the SAGA core, that will not be possible.
The target for the '050 is in the 100-150 MHz range and it will have many advances like a larger cache and code-fusing. Many instuctions will be executed in 1 cycle.
For users, the Natami will not be offered with an '060 card but with a core running the N050. While the '060 may be considered an upgrade for the Replay, this is not the case with Natami and only serves to get the Natami in developer's hands (expensively) until the cpu core is finalized.
As a CD32+SX1 owner, either board is a serious upgrade in performance for me.
With NEW upgraded affordable hardware in the field, I hope software rises to take advantage of it. :)
As I understand it, the latest 'core' of Replay is achieving '040-like performance which is great!
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So should I shop for a full 68060 or the LC low cost models? Does that matter in this application?
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Get the full 68060 if you can afford it.
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Got my BBS backup from 1993 waiting here ;-)
I wonder if the replay board will run even for 24/7 without having any issues.
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NATAMI's fpga is larger and faster than Replay's so unless the team licenses only the SAGA core, that will not be possible.
The target for the '050 is in the 100-150 MHz range and it will have many advances like a larger cache and code-fusing. Many instuctions will be executed in 1 cycle.
For users, the Natami will not be offered with an '060 card but with a core running the N050. While the '060 may be considered an upgrade for the Replay, this is not the case with Natami and only serves to get the Natami in developer's hands (expensively) until the cpu core is finalized.
As a CD32+SX1 owner, either board is a serious upgrade in performance for me.
With NEW upgraded affordable hardware in the field, I hope software rises to take advantage of it. :)
As I understand it, the latest 'core' of Replay is achieving '040-like performance which is great!
Ah, cheers for the info. Is the Natami FPGA vastly more expensive as a result? I certainly wasn't expecting the Natami to be priced around the EUR250-350 mark.
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I wonder if the replay board will run even for 24/7 without having any issues.
Can't think why not. I left my Minimig v1.1 running for over 32 days once when I forgot to switch it off before heading to Brazil.
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I wonder if the replay board will run even for 24/7 without having any issues.
That depends on the skills of mikej ;)
In practice if the mechanical stress between the BGA package and the PCB is greater than the solder bonding.. there is trouble. Same if power consumption makes the voltage regulators exceed their power dissipation and thus thermal limit. Dust, moisture or smoke can also mess with the stability. Unusual bit patterns may cause electromagnetic interference within the board, especially if the power capacitors and inductance isn't properly designed. The link between the FPGA and the DRAM may be especially vurnable. Transients or earth loops from external connections is another gotcha.
I hope he does some 24/7 testing to see what fails first.
Some practical things to do:
* Get a power supply with proper AC-line filters
* Measure and remove and ground loops between screen, audio amplifier, power supply, etc
* Fix an enclosure with enough venting holes
* Use ESD protection at ALL times
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That depends on the skills of mikej ;)
In practice if the mechanical stress between the BGA package and the PCB is greater than the solder bonding.. there is trouble. Same if power consumption makes the voltage regulators exceed their power dissipation and thus thermal limit. Dust, moisture or smoke can also mess with the stability. Unusual bit patterns may cause electromagnetic interference within the board, especially if the power capacitors and inductance isn't properly designed. The link between the FPGA and the DRAM may be especially vurnable. Transients or earth loops from external connections is another gotcha.
I hope he does some 24/7 testing to see what fails first.
Some practical things to do:
* Get a power supply with proper AC-line filters
* Measure and remove and ground loops between screen, audio amplifier, power supply, etc
* Fix an enclosure with enough venting holes
* Use ESD protection at ALL times
Keeping it submerged in a bucket of icy salt-water will help too.
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Keeping it submerged in a bucket of icy salt-water will help too.
No,no, no. Salt water is what you use on defective nuclear reactors.
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So should I shop for a full 68060 or the LC low cost models? Does that matter in this application?
Depends on what you plan on running on it. For most Amiga games and other programs, a 680LC60, or 680EC60 will probably be fine. There are very few Amiga applications that need the MMU and even less that need the FPU. See Jens explanation for using the 680EC30 on his ACA1230 accelerators.
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No,no, no. Salt water is what you use on defective nuclear reactors.
Oh.. Oh... Iggy's going to go off on one his save the world rambles again... ;)
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No,no, no. Salt water is what you use on defective nuclear reactors.
Damn, I always get the Minimig and Nuclear Reactors confused. No wonder I can't run my house off my Minimg. :(
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You can immerse it in fluorocarbons like fluorinert. Even alcohol, or mineral oil works. Just be careful with the lighter....
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You can immerse it in fluorocarbons like fluorinert. Even alcohol, or mineral oil works. Just be careful with the lighter....
Gawd... what a waste of good alcohol, much better to immerse ones self in it... :D
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Gawd... what a waste of good alcohol, much better to immerse ones self in it... :D
:laughing:
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Gawd... what a waste of good alcohol, much better to immerse ones self in it... :D
It has to be pure alcohol or else the ingredients that makes it taste will stick to the circuitboard wires ..
So the tasty variant can be used for other purposes ;)
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It has to be pure alcohol or else the ingredients that makes it taste will stick to the circuitboard wires ..
So the tasty variant can be used for other purposes ;)
Is it possible to make 100% pure alcohol? Mineral oil sounds easier.
Say anybody want some Fukushima spring water? 10,000% pure!
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Ah, cheers for the info. Is the Natami FPGA vastly more expensive as a result? I certainly wasn't expecting the Natami to be priced around the EUR250-350 mark.
MikeJ has said on the Natami forum that his basic board (not including the 060+daughter card) will be 200-220 euros. In that configuration it can achieve '040 like performance...from what I've seen.
I can't speak for the Natami team on pricing but the essential difference is you get alot of what's on the daughter card of the Replay and an '050 and a faster fpga and 512MB of memory in total. Both boards are 6 layers so the costs are basically the same but you are getting and paying for more components on the Natami without the need for the daughter card. Only developers will get the '060 card to get the ball rolling.
But again, I stress that there seems to be an fpga Amiga for everyone's budget and target performance.
The advantages of the Replay are multi-platform emulation. This is something the Natami will not do other than thru software apps.
1) Minimig
2) Replay (040ish)
3) Replay + '060 card (expensive)
4) Natami + '060 card (expensive)
near future:
5) Natami (050)
future:
6) Natami (070)
Replay will come to market first for sure.
On the Natami forums, the Atari Firebee team are keen on using Natami as a future Atari platform as well. They aren't completely happy with the Firebee hardware in the long run...it seems. But that could just be a vocal minority. The time for competition is at an end. Co-operation is the future, imho.
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The purpose of the 68060 board is to reverse engineer the CPU asfair?, so it really doesn't matter too much unless that's the purpose.
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The purpose of the 68060 board is to reverse engineer the CPU asfair?, so it really doesn't matter too much unless that's the purpose.
I don't think need to reverse engineer it? All the timings etc. as well as fairly detailed block diagrams are well documented both from official documentation and years of testing, and the N68050 is according to their team already more advanced in many ways.
I believe it's more as a development tool while they finish up the 050 and verify it's working properly
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The purpose of the 68060 board is to reverse engineer the CPU asfair?, so it really doesn't matter too much unless that's the purpose.
Hello, this is André from the Natami Team.
lou_dias and vidarh kinda have the right idea here. No, the 68060 CPU card has nothing to do with reverse engineering. But it is useful in many ways.
First and foremost, the N68050 core is developed on a separate system and is not integrated in the Natami FPGA yet. This makes it absolutely critical having a physical CPU to get things up and running at first.
Secondly, our softcore CPU does not come with a built in MMU, since that would slow down the entire CPU too much to be acceptable. A MMU might not be very important for a normal user of AmigaOS, but a developer might want to use a MMU for developing and debugging purposes. Likewise, if you want to experiment with other operating systems that demand a MMU, the 060 card is there.
Thirdly, it is good having a physical Motorola CPU for comparision of compatibility and performance, both between a Natami system and an Amiga classic and between Natami systems using different CPU:s.
Fourth(ly?), The 68060 card will not be disabled once the softcore CPU is done, but will theoretically be able to be used as a kind of accelerator for certain tasks, providing that software is written for it.
The first stand-alone Natami board design actually had a physical 68060 directly onboard. But this design was scrapped a few years ago when the softcore project started.
Sorry for hijacking the thread with a long answer :)
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Hello, this is André from the Natami Team.
lou_dias and vidarh kinda have the right idea here. No, the 68060 CPU card has nothing to do with reverse engineering. But it is useful in many ways.
First and foremost, the N68050 core is developed on a separate system and is not integrated in the Natami FPGA yet. This makes it absolutely critical having a physical CPU to get things up and running at first.
Secondly, our softcore CPU does not come with a built in MMU, since that would slow down the entire CPU too much to be acceptable. A MMU might not be very important for a normal user of AmigaOS, but a developer might want to use a MMU for developing and debugging purposes. Likewise, if you want to experiment with other operating systems that demand a MMU, the 060 card is there.
Thirdly, it is good having a physical Motorola CPU for comparision of compatibility and performance, both between a Natami system and an Amiga classic and between Natami systems using different CPU:s.
Fourth(ly?), The 68060 card will not be disabled once the softcore CPU is done, but will theoretically be able to be used as a kind of accelerator for certain tasks, providing that software is written for it.
The first stand-alone Natami board design actually had a physical 68060 directly onboard. But this design was scrapped a few years ago when the softcore project started.
Sorry for hijacking the thread with a long answer :)
Most people here would love to have more detailed answers from the Natami team members. Trying to find information by sifting through the large number of threads on the Natami forums is difficult, plus it is hard to tell which posts there are made by Natami team members, or Natami fanatics making inaccurate statements based on wishful thinking.
So, feel free to hijack threads here with correct information about the Natami project any time. I for one would like to see more frequent news updates on the Natami project that are straight from a team member.
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Most people here would love to have more detailed answers from the Natami team members. Trying to find information by sifting through the large number of threads on the Natami forums is difficult, plus it is hard to tell which posts there are made by Natami team members, or Natami fanatics making inaccurate statements based on wishful thinking.
So, feel free to hijack threads here with correct information about the Natami project any time. I for one would like to see more frequent news updates on the Natami project that are straight from a team member.
I agree 100%.
When it comes to Natami information, it is hard to know who is actually stating it, whether it is fact or fiction or even how old it is and what board they're talking about (current or previous versions).
Please keep us updated. :)
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On the Natami forums, the Atari Firebee team are keen on using Natami as a future Atari platform as well. They aren't completely happy with the Firebee hardware in the long run...it seems. But that could just be a vocal minority. The time for competition is at an end. Co-operation is the future, imho.
Well that would be good for the production run as the more units produced in a batch = lower cost per unit.
This is a handy feature of the FPGA as Mike will not be selling them just to the Amiga community, it will also make a great board for people developing other cores.
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@Forcie
Thanks for the input and identifying yourself, is helpful. No hijacking IMO, it's all about new FPGA Amiga machines, and all good news.
So, sounds safe to shop for a 68060 no matter how you cut it. And the softcore + real 68K together as an "accelerator" or for other tasks, kinda reminds me of the 68K + PPC living and working together on the Phase 5 boards. Well, it sure isn't boring hardware anyway.
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Can't think why not. I left my Minimig v1.1 running for over 32 days once when I forgot to switch it off before heading to Brazil.
My default paranoia for old classic HW being a hazard when running unattended has gotten to me :) That's all..hehe.:hammer:
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Having a physical 060 connected leaves more space in the FPGA for interesting things ;)
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Having a physical 060 connected leaves more space in the FPGA for interesting things ;)
The 060 will never get any faster, but in time as the fpga(s) get bigger(not physically) and faster that hard cpu will be an anchor.
Even MikeJ as postulated that in another maybe 2 years an even faster version of his board will exist because of this.
This is quite good. We are no longer limited to ancient 80's and 90's hardware.
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Well that would be good for the production run as the more units produced in a batch = lower cost per unit.
This is a handy feature of the FPGA as Mike will not be selling them just to the Amiga community, it will also make a great board for people developing other cores.
Well the Firebee is based on a 266Mhz Coldfire cpu. So an '060 based system feels like going backwards for them since they'd still be limited to ~100Mhz. They also want a roadmap forward and not just replacing failing classic hardware with modestly improved new hardware.
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Well the Firebee is based on a 266Mhz Coldfire cpu. So an '060 based system feels like going backwards for them since they'd still be limited to ~100Mhz. They also want a roadmap forward and not just replacing failing classic hardware with modestly improved new hardware.
The advantage is that they can make their own daughterboard and just use the main FPGA Arcade as the "base board". It is the same for any design using the FPGA Arcade, they can make their own daughtboards to supply any specific features they wish to add (and put a Coldfire on their own board).
Meanwhile, this would boost sales of the base FPGA Arcade beyond what Amiga-only users would generate and reduce unit costs.
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Hi,I am the one who is coordinating the Atari Coldfire Project (reloaded) for more than 2 years now.
On the Natami forums, the Atari Firebee team are keen on using Natami as a future Atari platform as well. They aren't completely happy with the Firebee hardware in the long run...it seems.
That was not what I said. There are some users who are not 100% happy about the choosen Coldfire. This dicussion "PPC or ColdFire or emulation or something else" is as old in Atari scene, as Motorola abandoned the further development of the 060. ;)So what I meant at Natami, is that some Atari users think the way of the self made 070 is interresting. And maybe there will be a future for some cooperation (like viceversa some Amiga users contacted us and asked for Amiga possibilities at the FireBee, what also could be done, but not by us). But of course noone inside the Atari Coldfire team thought about simply using a Natami as Atari. And remember Atari scene is in the glad situation, to have the Suska board as well - deliverable for nearly 2 years now.But that could just be a vocal minority. The time for competition is at an end. Co-operation is the future, imho.
Yes, exactly. And if there is any chance for cooperation, we try to do so. But we are in a better situation as we have the sources of TOS (Atari TOS & EmuTOS) and MiNT, what makes it possible at all to use a coldfire processor.
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Well the Firebee is based on a 266Mhz Coldfire cpu. So an '060 based system feels like going backwards for them since they'd still be limited to ~100Mhz. They also want a roadmap forward and not just replacing failing classic hardware with modestly improved new hardware.
You are right. And as we as community would not be able to do such a big switch to PPC, we try to make Atari applications usable at ColdFire CPUs. We have that AHCC compiler that can do binaries that are working on 68020 up to including Coldfire processors. So the plan is to have a new hardware and new applications that will work on the existing "high end" Ataris like CT6x or Hades/Milan as well as at the FireBee.
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A question for Mike if he happens to drop in:
Are there any plans to include a "boot loader" similar to the C-One where you can select at startup which core you want to run?
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A question for Mike if he happens to drop in:
Are there any plans to include a "boot loader" similar to the C-One where you can select at startup which core you want to run?
I second that... it would make the board a super platform for easy core selection, and thus opening it up to a whole world of people apart from the amiga users :)
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who would make these cores? and could they do that with a replay board or do they need a full dev kit?
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who would make these cores? and could they do that with a replay board or do they need a full dev kit?
I believe some are already in the works. There's an old thread around here somewhere...
Once I get my hands on the FPGA Arcade I intend to put together a hard file with a Classic Workbench install and then add as many emulators to that as I can find. Some off the top of my head:
VICE: 8bit Coomodores (C64, VIC20, PET, etc)
MAME: Arcade classics!
BBC model B: I have the floppy somewhere, hope it works.
Spectrum: For those who want to play C64 games only with wank graphics and crap sound. ;)
PC Task: MS DOS and Windows 3.x or even Windows 95?
Shape Shifter: I also have the MacOS7.x package that Cammy & friend assembled.
It will do until some "native" cores appear. Can anyone think of any more?
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I believe some are already in the works. There's an old thread around here somewhere...
Once I get my hands on the FPGA Arcade I intend to put together a hard file with a Classic Workbench install and then add as many emulators to that as I can find. Some off the top of my head:
VICE: 8bit Coomodores (C64, VIC20, PET, etc)
MAME: Arcade classics!
BBC model B: I have the floppy somewhere, hope it works.
Spectrum: For those who want to play C64 games only with wank graphics and crap sound. ;)
PC Task: MS DOS and Windows 3.x or even Windows 95?
Shape Shifter: I also have the MacOS7.x package that Cammy & friend assembled.
It will do until some "native" cores appear. Can anyone think of any more?
good idea, i would like it more as a gaming device, so 8/16-bit consoles as well as Amiga, C64, arcade etc
that would only be feasable with supported cores for the replay board though
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who would make these cores? and could they do that with a replay board or do they need a full dev kit?
You'd need a PC with the Xilinx development software installed. It's a free DL, but huge - about 4GB. I tried to download it at the library last week, but their security blocked the download manager Xilinx wanted to send first.
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But we are in a better situation as we have the sources of TOS (Atari TOS & EmuTOS) and MiNT, what makes it possible at all to use a coldfire processor.
Neat! How did you get the sources?
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Source for the A-Replay isn't released.
mikej/yaqube, How much power [W] does the Action Replay board use at average and peak? (and the 060-board?)
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A question for Mike if he happens to drop in:
Are there any plans to include a "boot loader" similar to the C-One where you can select at startup which core you want to run?
I am pretty sure, as the name implies, that MikeJ intends it to run more than just an Amiga core and has planned to have the Replay board run as many Arcade machine cores as are available. I don't know about such cores, but searching for them on the Internet should turn up more than a few, I would think.
I don't know if you would need a separate SD card for each Arcade machine, or computer system that you are cloning, or if you can fit several onto just one SD card and as you said, choose which one you want to load from a boot loader.
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I am pretty sure, as the name implies, that MikeJ intends it to run more than just an Amiga core and has planned to have the Replay board run as many Arcade machine cores as are available. I don't know about such cores, but searching for them on the Internet should turn up more than a few, I would think.
I don't know if you would need a separate SD card for each Arcade machine, or computer system that you are cloning, or if you can fit several onto just one SD card and as you said, choose which one you want to load from a boot loader.
I aggree. A core-selector from the boot menu would make the board very nice :) But I suspect this is already in the pipeline, or already implemented.
Espen
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Free from memory. The Action Replay uses an ARM cpu. It's a simple matter of loading the core of choice. Cores are written in VHDL or Verilog.
Cores designed for other board designs should be easy to adapt (wishbone?). So a massive amount of cores should appear soon after the release.
Macintosh 68k and 80386+VGA based demos ought to be quick. All 8-bit variants should pose no problem.
It's unclear weather the default firmware for the ARM will allow programs to be loaded into it and then executed. (mikej?)
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Neat! How did you get the sources?
EmuTOS and FreeMiNT are to Atari what AROS is to Amiga.
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EmuTOS and FreeMiNT are to Atari what AROS is to Amiga.
He also said they had the sources to Atari TOS, which I think was more interesting...
desiv
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He also said they had the sources to Atari TOS, which I think was more interesting...
desiv
So he did, I didn't notice that.
Maybe they just disassembled it?
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Neat! How did you get the sources?
Both Madusa as Milan are involved at the Atari Coldfire Project. And both bought licences for their computers mid of the 90ies. The contracts were done with the original Atari Inc. before it was sold to JTS in 1996. So we have the original TOS sources, not disassembled code.
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Both Madusa as Milan are involved at the Atari Coldfire Project. And both bought licences for their computers mid of the 90ies. The contracts were done with the original Atari Inc. before it was sold to JTS in 1996. So we have the original sources, not disassembled code.
While you are here, can I ask you a question about the Firebee?
Specifically, how do you handle running old 68k binaries with no source available that use instructions that exist on both the Coldfire and 68k CPUs, but behave differently on each?
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Free from memory. The Action Replay uses an ARM cpu. It's a simple matter of loading the core of choice. Cores are written in VHDL or Verilog.
Cores designed for other board designs should be easy to adapt (wishbone?). So a massive amount of cores should appear soon after the release.
Macintosh 68k and 80386+VGA based demos ought to be quick. All 8-bit variants should pose no problem.
It's unclear weather the default firmware for the ARM will allow programs to be loaded into it and then executed. (mikej?)
If you look at the demo video mike posted on youtube, you can see him selecting demo disk menus from an onscreen display.
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Free from memory. The Action Replay uses an ARM cpu. It's a simple matter of loading the core of choice. Cores are written in VHDL or Verilog.
Cores designed for other board designs should be easy to adapt (wishbone?). So a massive amount of cores should appear soon after the release.
Macintosh 68k and 80386+VGA based demos ought to be quick. All 8-bit variants should pose no problem.
It's unclear weather the default firmware for the ARM will allow programs to be loaded into it and then executed. (mikej?)
Really? Which ARM CPU?
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The ARM CPU that configures the FPGA with bitfiles and fakes floppydisc.
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The ARM CPU that configures the FPGA with bitfiles and fakes floppydisc.
That's not quite what I meant.
What type of ARM CPU?
And Nicholas' question is of particular interest.
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While you are here, can I ask you a question about the Firebee?
Of course! ;)Specifically, how do you handle running old 68k binaries with no source available
I am not a developer, so I doubt I can give you a real satisfying answer. But let´s try; there is - inside our Basis-System – a usermode, supervisormode, and a real hidden supervisormode. This 3rd new mode is unaccessable by the Operating System, and with heavy usage of MMU and illegal instructions handler most applications will work. that use instructions that exist on both the Coldfire and 68k CPUs, but behave differently on each?
Especially that issue is unsolved recently. We got cf68klib implemented inside the OS, but that few instructions are not done. But as I understood Atari applications make very few usage about them. I have to discuss it again with our OS-gurus, but I belive there are 2 instructions (?) that behave different. There are some ideas/concepts, but work on it will start this summer, as we also plan to do our own 68k handler, once the first series is out to the customers.
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There are some ideas/concepts, but work on it will start this summer, as we also plan to do our own 68k handler, once the first series is out to the customers.
An idea for you guys: Look into a tracing JIT. Effectively you start by putting a breakpoint at the very start of the application. Then when the breakpoint is hit, the trap handler checks each following instruction until a branch point. At the branch point you insert another breakpoint.
If any of the found instructions are "unsafe" (differ between M68k and Coldfire) you rewrite it to an equivalent safe variation or patch in a jump to a tiny dynamically generated function that emulates the right behavior and jumps back (if there's no space to change it inline). Then you let the instruction stream execute until the next trap, and repeat.
Initially things will run slowly, but after each code path has been executed once, it'll have been rewritten and will run *far* faster than having to run a trap handler for every hit.
This approach is what's used by modern Javascript JIT's - there it's complex because they have to do complex code generation, but for M68k => Coldfire most of the code is already valid so the JIT can pass over all safe instruction and only need to recognize the few cases that are not valid Coldfire code and know how to generate code to emulate just those instructions.
You could probably do a decent functioning tracer/JIT for M68k => Coldfire in a couple of thousand lines of code.
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An idea for you guys: Look into a tracing JIT.
Something like this is planned by Fredi Aschwanden. I just avoided the word JIT, because I do not completely understand it myselve, and the next question normally is "why not us a PPC than" ;)Such a "partial JIT" will solve everything except selfmodifying code as far as I understood. I will post your message insiode our development forum. Thanks.
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Something like this is planned by Fredi Aschwanden. I just avoided the word JIT, because I do not completely understand it myselve, and the next question normally is "why not us a PPC than" ;)Such a "partial JIT" will solve everything except selfmodifying code as far as I understood. I will post your message insiode our development forum. Thanks.
Well, you could just as well ask "why not switch to emulation", but then I guess most of us here aren't all that rational when it comes to our attachment to the M68k architecture :)
And the other thing is that a JIT from M68k to PPC is massively more complicated. A M68k to Coldfire JIT can just skip past most instructions, and so for almost all instructions all it needs to know is how to determine that they fall in the "safe/compatible" category, and how to figure out the length of the operands to skip them. For m68k that's very easy for most instructions - there aren't that many variations of the encoding.
In theory there's nothing really stopping you from undoing relocation and generating/caching a new fully or partially translated binary through this process either, though it might not be much point adding the complexity.
Looking at the size of M68k instruction decoders, you can do enough of the instruction decode to skip the safe instructions in at most a couple of hundred lines of code (the only one I happen to have sitting on my hd is 457 lines of C to decode instructions fully to text - a decoder that for most cases only needs to figure out the type of instruction and size would be far smaller).
Beyond that it's the code to manage breakpoints and splice in "fixed" instructions, but that shouldn't be huge either.
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The ARM CPU is an atmel sam7s256. It's job is to boot the FPGA, load ROM images into DRAM and sort out configuration by the OSD.
It also acts as a bridge to the SD card, pretenting to be a floppy or hard disk (or tape perhaps).
I'm working on merging my generic boot loader with Jakub's amiga extensions (such as hardfile and floppy support) but there is still some work to do,
I'm in China at the moment, so I won't be online so much.
/Mike
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I believe some are already in the works. There's an old thread around here somewhere...
Once I get my hands on the FPGA Arcade I intend to put together a hard file with a Classic Workbench install and then add as many emulators to that as I can find. Some off the top of my head:
VICE: 8bit Coomodores (C64, VIC20, PET, etc)
MAME: Arcade classics!
BBC model B: I have the floppy somewhere, hope it works.
Spectrum: For those who want to play C64 games only with wank graphics and crap sound. ;)
PC Task: MS DOS and Windows 3.x or even Windows 95?
Shape Shifter: I also have the MacOS7.x package that Cammy & friend assembled.
It will do until some "native" cores appear. Can anyone think of any more?
Sure can . Amstrad CPC
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I think Atari-ST, Macintosh 68k, 80386+VGA+SB ;)
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Sure can . Amstrad CPC
there is a coco3 core iirc in the works.
I'd love to see coco1, coco2, trs80 model 1, ti99, apple ii, dec rainbow, vz200/vz300,
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Well, you could just as well ask "why not switch to emulation",
Hahaha, belive me it was asked several (!) times, as we got the real good VM Aranym! but then I guess most of us here aren't all that rational when it comes to our attachment to the M68k architecture :)
Well, it seems the Amiga crowd is as crazy as we are ;) Thats exactly the point a dedicated hardware is something completely different.
And the other thing is that a JIT from M68k to PPC is massively more complicated. A M68k to Coldfire JIT can just skip past most instructions, and so for almost all instructions all it needs to know is how to determine that they fall in the "safe/compatible" category, and how to figure out the length of the operands to skip them. For m68k that's very easy for most instructions - there aren't that many variations of the encoding.
Exactly! Please spread that informations ;) I had huge problems and was tortured whith the question "why beating a CF to compatibility with 68k". And it was really hard to understand for some people that a CF is much more easy, and that the Atari community is not strong enough any more to get a processor swichth done. Also many people didn´t get the fact that we can produce binaries that run on CF AND 68k. the AHCC compiler/assembler is already able to do so for one year now.
In theory
Well in theory we could even boot a 8-bit machine or a Amiga 500 natively at the FireBee. But it needs to be done by anyone, … It´s always the question of reasonable amount of work compared to the aim. aNd in case of an Amiga, I always said there is no sense as you have the Minimig and soon the X1000 as Natami. For the rest of your posting, volutneers are highly welcome at every time ;))
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I think Atari-ST, Macintosh 68k, 80386+VGA+SB ;)
Have you checked out Suska? Anyoen intrested in porting to FPGA Arcade? (It's the Atari equivalent of Minimig core from the sounds of it)
http://experiment-s.de/en/atari-ste-in-a-chip/
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For the rest of your posting, volutneers are highly welcome at every time ;))
See, the thing is I'm very tempted to write a tracer for M68k, but I've overcommitted myself to way too many projects already that are all proceeding at snails pace, so I'm hoping to trick someone else into doing the work :-P
The Coldfire part isn't really *that* interesting for me (though it'd be kind of cool to get AROS M68k running on Firebee...), because it's not that relevant for Amiga, but there's tons of other cool stuff you could do if someone wrote a generic M68k tracer (e.g. one that's configurable as to which instructions it traps), like building all kinds of funky debugging and analysis tools that'd work even on non-MMU systems.
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See, the thing is I'm very tempted to write a tracer for M68k, but I've overcommitted myself to way too many projects already that are all proceeding at snails pace, so I'm hoping to trick someone else into doing the work :-P
Well thats a very cool plan, even extremely tricky . I like it ;) Just let´s talk more about it, maybe some volunteer will show up.
The Coldfire part isn't really *that* interesting for me (though it'd be kind of cool to get AROS M68k running on Firebee...), because it's not that relevant for Amiga,
Maybe if we tell people as well, that there would even be the whole thankfulness of Dragon- and Coldfusion-team belonging to this volunteer as those two projects could be produced in series afterwards, ... ;-P
but there's tons of other cool stuff you could do if someone wrote a generic M68k tracer (e.g. one that's configurable as to which instructions it traps), like building all kinds of funky debugging and analysis tools that'd work even on non-MMU systems.
Thats also a nice idea I didn´t think about.
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Have you checked out Suska?
I've not seen any updates for a while but it will be a good porting opportunity. Moving the BSP (board support package) to FPGA Replay Board will take up the time. It won't be a simple "recompile" but should be possible.
I always wondered why there are so few FPGA projects ported to MiniMig v1.1 PCB?
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because it's not that relevant for Amiga, but there's tons of other cool stuff you could do if someone wrote a generic M68k tracer (e.g. one that's configurable as to which instructions it traps), like building all kinds of funky debugging and analysis tools that'd work even on non-MMU systems.
The major problem is latency. You'll have to sit between the cpu and ram and insert something like a line-a/illegal instruction. However you'll have to wait for the data to settle before you can examine the opcode to patch (which if it's configurable will involve a lookup) and only then can you output the original/replacement opcode to the cpu (which will also have to wait for the data to settle ).
You'll also need some hackery to determine which is the opcode and which is the operands, which may also require lookups.
As this will happen when the instruction cache is being filled it may only have a small impact (until the exception is taken anyway) and it might be worth the penalty. However an fpga cpu is a much better way to go.
CF is fine for new software, you can even make new software that works on CF & 68k. But there are always going to be doubts over old software.
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The major problem is latency. You'll have to sit between the cpu and ram and insert something like a line-a/illegal instruction.
You misunderstand what I was describing. I was describing a purely software solution similar to a JIT (just in time compiler): loadseg() the binary, run a function to decode and process instructions up until the first potential branch, insert a breakpoint, jump into the (possibly modified) instruction stream. Repeat.
*No* hardware support is needed for this.
You'll also need some hackery to determine which is the opcode and which is the operands, which may also require lookups.
This "hackery" for M68k is really easy - as I mentioned, a full instruction decoder for M68k is at most a couple of hundred lines of C.
CF is fine for new software, you can even make new software that works on CF & 68k. But there are always going to be doubts over old software.
JIT of instruction streams that deviate massively from the target can approach compiled C in performance. E.g. Java bytecode JIT's or Lua for example. For M68k => CF getting performance far outstripping the original M68k's ought to be fairly trivial.
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You misunderstand what I was describing. I was describing a purely software solution similar to a JIT (just in time compiler): loadseg() the binary, run a function to decode and process instructions up until the first potential branch, insert a breakpoint, jump into the (possibly modified) instruction stream. Repeat.
*No* hardware support is needed for this.
You make it sound very very very easy. :)
If it is that easy then why couldn't Elbox get it working at high speed on their Dragon?
What do you do about games that don't use LoadSeg() ?
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there is a coco3 core iirc in the works.
I'd love to see coco1, coco2, trs80 model 1, ti99, apple ii, dec rainbow, vz200/vz300,
That would be kind of cool. I could run OS9/Nitros9 software on it.
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You make it sound very very very easy. :)
If it is that easy then why couldn't Elbox get it working at high speed on their Dragon?
Did they ever try? AFAIK most or all attempts at dealing with the CF incompatibilities so far have focused on trapping the instructions, which is horribly inefficient. Most likely they simply never thought about this precise approach, or they didn't have anyone who understood JIT's - you can probably still count the number of people who have ever implemented a JIT worldwide in the low 3 digits.
The tracing JIT mechanism is well tested in far more challenging circumstances (JIT'ing from things like Java and Lua bytecode, which is massively more complicated because it doesn't match the target machine code at all) and have been shown to work well. The new Lua JIT in particular is very impressive.
What do you do about games that don't use LoadSeg() ?
The method you use to load the binary is secondary. The only caveat is that you need to be able to start the translator *before* the code you ant to process, and to have some reasonable guarantee that you can prevent the JIT translator itself from being overwritten, but for modern reimplementations, providing a write barrier shouldn't be a major obstacle.
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Ok so start the tracer in the kickstart.
But how can the JIT tracing work inside of interrupts?
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It ought to be possible to create a working 68060 softcore, however it might be slow. Anyway a 68020 uses 200k transistors, while the 68060 uses 2500k transistors. Assuming linear size relations.. The 68020 softcore according to yaqube, takes about 60% (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=592167#post592167) out of the Xilinx Spartan-3E 1200 (http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds312.pdf) with 19k logic gates in total. Using two of the newer Spartan-6 XC6SLX75 (http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds160.pdf) for 120 USD each with 75k logic gates each it should be posssible to implement a 68060 softcore with the free Xilinx ISE Webpack synthesis software.
Any takers? ;)
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You make it sound very very very easy. :)
If it is that easy then why couldn't Elbox get it working at high speed on their Dragon?
What do you do about games that don't use LoadSeg() ?
Chaos bring up something that has bothered me from the start. Not only are Coldfire processors missing some 68K instructions, other instructions don't work exactly the same way as they do on a 68K.
If everything has to run through a JIT interpreter, then the performance hit may nullify the speed advantage.
A real '060 or an FPGA emulated 68K processor may have a performance advantage over a Coldfire processor running 68K code through a JIT interpreter.
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You misunderstand what I was describing. I was describing a purely software solution similar to a JIT (just in time compiler)
JIT may work, but it'll be slower & need more ram. Dealing with self modifying code is especially tricky.
Code accessed through jump tables are also difficult to find until you actually get to it.
There is a difference between writing a JITing for a language that was designed for it & one that isn't.
While I don't think it's as easy or good as you think, I'd love to see how it works out.
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JIT may work, but it'll be slower & need more ram. Dealing with self modifying code is especially tricky.
Frankly, that is a trick I always avoided. A true sign of bad programming.
A few OS' I've worked with essentially forbid self modifying code.
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Frankly, that is a trick I always avoided. A true sign of bad programming.
self modifying code is fine as long as you clear the cpu caches afterwards, so as long as you ditch the jit cache when the caches are cleared then it'll work.
How about pushing an address on the stack and then returning?
Although rts will need to cope anyway as the code you're returning to might have been flushed if your jit cache fills up. So it will have to always do a lookup to find the real code.
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JIT may work, but it'll be slower & need more ram.
Slower and need more RAM than what? The alternative is to not run the application at all, or run it under emulation. For stuff you have source to, recompiling it is the better alternative.
In terms of RAM, unless the code is self-modifying, you can get away with only very minor amounts for cases like m68k to CF, in order to patch in emulation of instructions that are not supported and that can't be replaced in-line with code of the same size.
You only need to maintain two copies of the code *if* you need to deal with self modifying code. A simple solution is to not deal with it in ordinary cases, and possibly not at all (frankly, given the small, finite amount of legacy code relying on self modifying code, it's probably better to spend the time patching the few programs that do).
Code accessed through jump tables are also difficult to find until you actually get to it.
Exactly, and that's the reason to do a tracing JIT instead of static translator.
With a tracing JIT it's easy, as you'll always hit a breakpoint when the branch should happen until all paths have been completely traced. A major point of a tracing JIT as opposed to a method based JIT is exactly to make it trivial to handle control flow.
There is a difference between writing a JITing for a language that was designed for it & one that isn't.
Yes, but in this case it's vastly *easier*, as the mapping function for the vast majority of instructions is simply the identity function (that is, nothing is done other than to skip to the next instruction).
The existence of JIT's that JIT m68k to i386 or PPC demonstrates a worst case bound where all instructions need to be JIT'd. Yet there are decently performing JIT's that do that. For m68k to Coldfire the case is far simpler.
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self modifying code is fine as long as you clear the cpu caches afterwards, so as long as you ditch the jit cache when the caches are cleared then it'll work.
Having to clear the cache is another reason why it's seen as bad practice, beyond being horribly unmaintainable. There's a reason people pretty much stopped doing it in the mid 80's.
How about pushing an address on the stack and then returning?
Simple enough to detect.
Although rts will need to cope anyway as the code you're returning to might have been flushed if your jit cache fills up. So it will have to always do a lookup to find the real code.
There would be no "jit cache" - that's the entire point of how to make it fast and simple - you'd patch the live code directly, so no, it doesn't need to do any lookups because to pushed address would be the address of the real code.
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>Having to clear the cache is another reason why it's seen as bad practice, beyond being horribly unmaintainable. There's a reason people pretty much stopped doing it in the mid 80's.
Honestly, self modifying code isn't just a bad practice, its a recourse used by sloppy programmers. For the small improvement you might see in performance you destroy easy traceability and can no longer use re entrant code.
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Self modifying code can have significant perfomance gains when cycles are hard to come by.
Btw, does self modifying code put pipelined cpus into an undefined state?
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Self modifying code can have significant perfomance gains when cycles are hard to come by.
Lets separate two definitions here. *Generating* code at runtime is not necessarily a bad thing - after all that's what a JIT does. *Modifying* code by writing into already in-use parts of the code segment is a nasty thing.
The former is easy enough to handle with JIT too - any indirect jump would necessarily need to be replaced with a guard/breakpoint (not necessarily a trap - a jump to a handler in the JIT is sufficient, and can be much cheaper) that ensures no direct jump to untranslated code happens unless the indirection can be shown to be "safe" (relative to a known base, such as a library base).
Actual self modifying code as opposed to code that safely generates new code is not necessary for performance at all in my view - I believe you can get all the benefits of it by generating code in cleaner ways. But even self-modifying code is not _necessarily_ a big problem to handle - in most cases you can reasonably easily determine with tracing which instruction sequences can lead to writes to address ranges in the code segment, though it does complicate the tracer for very little benefit.
Frankly, I haven't seen self modifying code used for any good purpose since my Commodore 64 days (and then for cycle exact timing for raster effects, not for performance)... I'd be very interested in seeing a good example of it being used in a way where it couldn't easily be avoided without sacrificing a lot of performance.
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There would be no "jit cache" - that's the entire point of how to make it fast and simple - you'd patch the live code directly, so no, it doesn't need to do any lookups because to pushed address would be the address of the real code.
So all you're going to do is patch at load time? You might find some software that works for, but you can't get 100% coverage of all opcodes on all software at load time. Even worse you might patch some data, because you can't be guaranteed that you'll figure out which is code and which is data (technically it can even be both).
Frankly, I haven't seen self modifying code used for any good purpose since my Commodore 64 days (and then for cycle exact timing for raster effects, not for performance)... I'd be very interested in seeing a good example of it being used in a way where it couldn't easily be avoided without sacrificing a lot of performance.
Is copy protection a good purpose?
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So all you're going to do is patch at load time?
No. At runtime. It wouldn't be a JIT if it tried to do it all at once.
You might find some software that works for, but you can't get 100% coverage of all opcodes on all software at load time.
Which is why you trace the execution until each branching point and JIT trace by trace rather than the whole thing at once, at which point determining the instruction stream is trivial (couple of hundred lines of C, at most, as I said - I have about half a dozen M68k instruction decoders sitting around on my harddisk from various disassemblers and other tools).
Doing it this way means you can analyze each trace fairly easily to determine if the branch point is static (return to caller or branch to a specific address) or dynamic (in the latter case you'd need to insert a jump to a small guard function to ensure you don't jump to untranslated code unless to you can compute the full set of branch points. If in doubt you err on the side of treating it as dynamic, at a slight performance cost.
In reality, the cases here you'd need a guard are so rare that it's most likely not even worth optimizing (though there are a number of well understood ways of doing it, such as polymorphic inline caching, first developed for Self).
Note that for example jump tables for the most part does *not* fall in this category, as recognizing sufficient number of the most common jump tables approaches is fairly simple and handling them easy enough (add a small guard function that checks bounds, and adds breakpoints for all functions between the previous highest/lowest jump table values used if they can't be statically determined, or otherwise just jumps to them, trigger a breakpoint if the code hasn't been traced yet - you suffer a worst case cost of a couple of compares and branches once the translation has been done).
Is copy protection a good purpose?
No. Given that few of them prevented anything from getting copied for more than days back in the day, I'd say that's an exceedingly good example of how pointless it is. While getting originals to run would be nice, and handling the most basic self modifying code is reasonably straightforward, it's a clear example of what I'd consider a waste of time given that finding cracks is easy enough.
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Can we move the Coldfire recompilation posts into a different thread please.
[If you're patching a few, incompatible instructions, then you're surely better off doing this once up front, and making the fixed binary available online, or integrating the patching mechanism into the loader (presumably whdload does a similar thing for Amiga games). No need to over-engineer a solution here.]
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Sorry for asking - haven't been following lately, but there is a price and/or date yet?
Cheers!
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I got mine yesterday (first batch). Not being sure if what I payd is what batch#2-boards will sell for, I won't be able to comment on that price. I believe that Mike has written some messages on this thread a while ago what he'll charge for the boards.
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I got mine yesterday (first batch).
Trying hard not to be jealous.... Any first impressions?
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Trying hard not to be jealous.... Any first impressions?
I also recived my FPGAArcade board yesterday (first batch).
We have no firmware yet (.bin), because MikeJ is to China in a hurry for work last friday.
He dropted the boards off @ the airport.
He will upload the needed files to us soon.
So all we can do for now looking live at it without any action LOL ;-)
We realy need the files !!!!!!!!!! hahaha....
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Trying hard not to be jealous.... Any first impressions?
Well, it is very small in size. Very handy :) And the build is good. It simply looks fantastic and feels great. That is about all I can say for first impression, as I have not yet booted it. I need to DL the core and the files from Mike first :D
But as soon as i have it powered up, I will definitely post some information.
Now I can't wait for the Daughterboard from Yaqube to arrive when he finishes it and it goes into production. :) That is gonna me a kick-ass Amiga desktop replacement unit. Oh man...
Espen
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I also recived my FPGAArcade board yesterday (first batch).
We have no firmware yet (.bin), because MikeJ is to China in a hurry for work last friday.
He dropted the boards off @ the airport.
He will upload the needed files to us soon.
So all we can do for now looking live at it without any action LOL ;-)
We realy need the files !!!!!!!!!! hahaha....
Hehe..true. He posted it on his way to the airport, and it arrived IN MY MAILBOX at 12m ..just a few hours later...and I live in a different country. Man, he must have bribed the postal dude cause I have never experienced such a fast delivery. It must be the power of Amiga that was doing its mojo-thang :)
I hoped he had forgotten his test-sd card in my board, but ....no luck ;)
He'll upload the image and send us the tutorial/info/manual/textfile on how to operate this 747 :)
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Well, now he has created a whole new Amiga flame war. Will the official release date be Today, or when he ships the files to power the board up? ;)
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Well, as soon as you guys have these up you've got to post some impressions.
Replay beats the Natami to the gate!
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No. At runtime. It wouldn't be a JIT if it tried to do it all at once.
Which is why you trace the execution until each branching point and JIT trace by trace rather than the whole thing at once,
What you're suggesting is impossible. You say it won't take more ram and yet you're somehow going to have the entire program in memory and have it patch itself. Just try and code it.
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What you're suggesting is impossible. You say it won't take more ram and yet you're somehow going to have the entire program in memory and have it patch itself. Just try and code it.
Obviously that approach would take more memory. And you're running additional processes to control the interpretation and execution of the code.
So more memory and a higher CPU load.
MorphOS can handle JIT for a 68K processor, but look at the speed of the processors it runs on.
Available Coldfires just don't run that fast to make JIT practical unless your goal is running 68K code at about 68K speeds and running native Coldfire code at full speed.
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What you're suggesting is impossible. You say it won't take more ram and yet you're somehow going to have the entire program in memory and have it patch itself. Just try and code it.
I say it won't take a lot more RAM. For a typical program where only a small percentage of the instructions need to be patched, the growth would hardly be noticeable.
My point was that there's no reason to generate the whole program all over again at a new location in memory.
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I say it won't take a lot more RAM. For a typical program where only a small percentage of the instructions need to be patched, the growth would hardly be noticeable.
My point was that there's no reason to generate the whole program all over again at a new location in memory.
Right, you're going through the code as it executes so it does take up that much memory. The JIT interpreting code itself would take up more space.
But the CPU cycles used by the JIT software are significant.
And the overhead doesn't completely disappear when running compatible code because each part still has to be checked.
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MorphOS can handle JIT for a 68K processor, but look at the speed of the processors it runs on.
MOS JIT's from m68k to PPC - a massively more complicated task. Even so, I very much doubt the cost of the actual JIT is particularly noticeable.
There's plenty of research on load time code generation on M68k CPU's that demonstrate that it can be done quickly, for example Michael Franz' doctoral dissertation from 1994 - Code-Generation On-the-Fly: A Key to Portable Software - that achieved speeds on 68020's or 68030's that was fast enough to be hardly noticeable while executing a far more complicated code-generation pass.
Anyway - I'd be happy to continue this discussion, but if so we really ought to create a new thread for it - this is getting rather off topic :)
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Well, now he has created a whole new Amiga flame war. Will the official release date be Today, or when he ships the files to power the board up? ;)
Yes that's true, a new 'camp'....the FPGA Amiga camp ;)
What color shall we go for this time chaps....how about green for jealousy?
Actually, what color is AROS meant to be....is green already taken :)
Glad to see this interesting project is starting to pick up pace, hopefully in a year or so there will be a real alternative to genuine (upgraded) HW for getting my WHDLOAD/OS 3.9 kicks.
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Btw, anyone with a schematic + synthesis software can write software for the board.
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Actually, what color is AROS meant to be....is green already taken :)
AROS is the black camp.
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AROS is the black camp.
AROS camp watches in horror as FPGA Arcade sales take off...
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/balloon003-tm.jpg)
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:roflmao:
I waaaaant one!
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The FPGA camp doesn't have a fixed color. It's loaded at boot time from another camp.
;-)
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The FPGA camp doesn't have a fixed color. It's loaded at boot time from another camp.
;-)
Ha!:lol:
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The FPGA color should be that sicking brown/green/grey that you get when you mix all of the playdoh colors together.
Aros isn't going to fear the Replay. It will end up being the official Amiga compativle OS for the FPGA camp.
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The FPGA color should be that sicking brown/green/grey that you get when you mix all of the playdoh colors together.
Aros isn't going to fear the Replay. It will end up being the official Amiga compativle OS for the FPGA camp.
,,,when its finished wake me up....zzzzzzz
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This board should meet the requirements for what the Aros68K version is already running on if I am not mistaken. It may not be 'finished', but it is running. I also think that the guys from WinUAE have delivered enough that we could give them the benefit of the doubt.
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The FPGA camp doesn't have a fixed color. It's loaded at boot time from another camp.
;-)
OK, I just reread that, and had an image of a bumper sticker withe the word "Amiga" using rainbow colors.
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This board should meet the requirements for what the Aros68K version is already running on if I am not mistaken. It may not be 'finished', but it is running. I also think that the guys from WinUAE have delivered enough that we could give them the benefit of the doubt.
Yep, WinUAE works (pretty well actually). AROS? When is the X86 version going to be at v1.0?
Running, no I want it running correctly. The X86 version has enough faults, the 68K version is no where near as polished.
No software package is ever finished, until its discontinued there's always something that need work or improvement.
But the goal you're looking for is years away.
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Yep, WinUAE works (pretty well actually). AROS? When is the X86 version going to be at v1.0?
Running, no I want it running correctly. The X86 version has enough faults, the 68K version is no where near as polished.
No software package is ever finished, until its discontinued there's always something that need work or improvement.
But the goal you're looking for is years away.
Your worried about a few measly years when talking about Amiga? Bah! I scoff at your years!
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But you dont have to wait for the entire 68k branch of AROS to catch up with X86 version. Once the replacemnet ROM done thats all that really needed at first
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But you dont have to wait for the entire 68k branch of AROS to catch up with X86 version. Once the replacemnet ROM done thats all that really needed at first
+1
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Yep, WinUAE works (pretty well actually). AROS? When is the X86 version going to be at v1.0?
Running, no I want it running correctly. The X86 version has enough faults, the 68K version is no where near as polished.
The 68k version can run Amiga Basic. What more do you want? :lol:
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But you dont have to wait for the entire 68k branch of AROS to catch up with X86 version. Once the replacemnet ROM done thats all that really needed at first
There is a point I hadn't considered. And it points to a big difference between the X86 and 68K ports.
Your actually waiting for something that doesn't exist in the X86 realm.
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The 68k version can run Amiga Basic. What more do you want? :lol:
ROM based BASIC that they had on really early IBM PCs. I can't even remember that name of that product.:hammer:
Why is a kickstart ROM important? Couldn't new hardware use flash memory as a replacement? Obviously, legacy hardware would have limitation with a larger replacement that wouldn't fit in a ROM, but why would you worry about the size of the replacement for new systems?
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,,,when its finished wake me up....zzzzzzz
Kickstart is all that is needed and the bounty requirements have been met already.
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Why is a kickstart ROM important? Couldn't new hardware use flash memory as a replacement? Obviously, legacy hardware would have limitation with a larger replacement that wouldn't fit in a ROM, but why would you worry about the size of the replacement for new systems?
ROM in the case of AROS is just used as a catch-all phrase for a single binary that contains all the basic functionality needed to get the system to work with apps that expect the same functionality as an original Amiga kickstart ROM, and that *can* be put in a ROM or flash (e.g. they don't try to write to anywhere in the image, and only uses memory that's explicitly been allocated from RAM).
I don't think anyone would try to produce actual ROM chips - you're right that using flash is a better alternative. Even for classics, a ROM replacement holding a flash chip would be better than producing an actual ROM, so it's easily updated.
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ROM in the case of AROS is just used as a catch-all phrase for a single binary that contains all the basic functionality needed to get the system to work with apps that expect the same functionality as an original Amiga kickstart ROM, and that *can* be put in a ROM or flash (e.g. they don't try to write to anywhere in the image, and only uses memory that's explicitly been allocated from RAM).
I don't think anyone would try to produce actual ROM chips - you're right that using flash is a better alternative. Even for classics, a ROM replacement holding a flash chip would be better than producing an actual ROM, so it's easily updated.
So why in the world do I keep seeing posts related to the ROM size limitations of specific Amiga models?
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So why in the world do I keep seeing posts related to the ROM size limitations of specific Amiga models?
Are you sure it's not the RAM limitations you're seeing reference to? For example, if your OS (regardless of whether it's stored on HDD or on ROM) is too large to fit in the RAM of your computer (talking about standard functions not extras), then you have a problem.
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So why in the world do I keep seeing posts related to the ROM size limitations of specific Amiga models?
Some Amiga models didn't support Kickstart ROM's bigger than 512kb. Most do. FPGA-based ones will as well. This forced someone to make a Zune-lite (aka Workbook) to make the ROM image smaller. IIRC
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OK, I just reread that, and had an image of a bumper sticker withe the word "Amiga" using rainbow colors.
How about the word "Replay" using letters from the fonts associated with the major systems to have cores?
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So why in the world do I keep seeing posts related to the ROM size limitations of specific Amiga models?
Because those limitations are limitations you'll also run into if you try to replace the kickstart ROM with a tiny "drop-in" board with a flash chip on, as well as limits you'll run into if you use any number of solutions that remap RAM copies of the kickstart. It's also a limitation of Minimig, for example - don't know about the Replay board.
So in other words, if you want to be able to use the kickstart images on real classics or Minimig's without more complicated new expansions you have to restrict the size of the kickstart image whether you want to actually put it in ROM or not.
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Because those limitations are limitations you'll also run into if you try to replace the kickstart ROM with a tiny "drop-in" board with a flash chip on, as well as limits you'll run into if you use any number of solutions that remap RAM copies of the kickstart. It's also a limitation of Minimig, for example - don't know about the Replay board.
So in other words, if you want to be able to use the kickstart images on real classics or Minimig's without more complicated new expansions you have to restrict the size of the kickstart image whether you want to actually put it in ROM or not.
That's a frightening hardware limitation.
No wonder I've always settled for only partial compatibility.
I'm sure they'll figure something out.
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There is no "ROM" in the FPGA Amigas, the kickstart image is copied to DRAM at boot. You can split the 32MByte of memory in any way you like between RAM and ROM.
/Mike
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There is no "ROM" in the FPGA Amigas, the kickstart image is copied to DRAM at boot. You can split the 32MByte of memory in any way you like between RAM and ROM.
/Mike
I think it was more an issue for the original Minimig with 2MB RAM! But assuming that all Minimig owners have sorted out a Kickstart, and that not many new Minimigs will get made with FPGAArcade and NatAmi arriving on the scnee, I guess we don't need to worry so much about Kickstart sizes in future.
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I think it was more an issue for the original Minimig with 2MB RAM! But assuming that all Minimig owners have sorted out a Kickstart, and that not many new Minimigs will get made with FPGAArcade and NatAmi arriving on the scnee, I guess we don't need to worry so much about Kickstart sizes in future.
So, again, this is an issue with legacy hardware only.
Guess what guys, legacy hardware really may finally be completely obsolete.
(get ready for the, I'm only a collector/retro hobbyist posts).
"I like hamburger b 'cause I'm into pain!"
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I love lamp
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ROM in the case of AROS is just used as a catch-all phrase for a single binary that contains all the basic functionality needed to get the system to work with apps that expect the same functionality as an original Amiga kickstart ROM, and that *can* be put in a ROM or flash (e.g. they don't try to write to anywhere in the image, and only uses memory that's explicitly been allocated from RAM).
I don't think anyone would try to produce actual ROM chips - you're right that using flash is a better alternative. Even for classics, a ROM replacement holding a flash chip would be better than producing an actual ROM, so it's easily updated.
Well explained. But this makes me want a FLASH ROM for my classics more so than really needing AROS ( which is largely about getting free from copyright ). Something like what DENEB offers. If I have the power / control to pick and choose binaries (boingbags, whatever) to execute at boot up, why do I need AROS? it's "AROS" not "AROM". I want to be free of the ROM constraints, not the OS...
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Well explained. But makes this me want a FLASH ROM for my classics more so than really needing AROS ( we is largely about getting free from copyright ), much like what DENEB offers. If I have the power / control to pick and choose binaries (boingbags) to execute and boot up, why do I need AROS? it's "AROS" not "AROM". I want to be free of the ROM constraints, not the OS...
Well said man. What does AROS bring to the party that might be attractive to a user of legacy hardware?
How about being "free of the ROM constraints"?
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What does AROS bring to the party that might be attractive to a user of legacy hardware?[/I]"?
EEPROM flashable/Relokick-able custom ROMs for one.
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EEPROM flashable/Relokick-able custom ROMs for one.
Will that give them large ROM capacities?
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EEPROM flashable/Relokick-able custom ROMs for one.
You mean like this:
(http://www.a1k.org/forum/upload/217202282007.jpg)
Offer us something that is already being done?
(These German guys are badasses over at the a1k.org)
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There seems to be some odd ideas as to what an AROS ROM is... All Amigas need Kickstart software to boot, AROS aims to offer a free open source alternative to the copyrighted Kickstart software produced by Commodore and licenced by various companies since.
Apart from the A1000, the Kickstart software for the Amiga was stored on ROM and thus has always been refered to as the "ROM"...
As a classic Amiga user, AROS Kickstart software offers you an updated Kickstart that may include features unavailable (built in RTG for example) in the original software.
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You mean like this:
(http://www.a1k.org/forum/upload/217202282007.jpg)
Offer us something that is already being done?
(These German guys are badasses over at the a1k.org)
Erm.... That's nothing new, we've been ables to flash custom binary EEPROM kickstarts for a long time now.
Custom (as in, we have the source to customise) AROS kickstarts are a much nicer prospect.
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Will that give them large ROM capacities?
No, why would you think it might?
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Just that the Goose has asked to be freed from ""ROM constraints" when we were discussing Eprom/Rom size limitations.
I think Bloodline's answer helps sum up my misconception, "There seems to be some odd ideas as to what an AROS ROM is...".
I assumed that there were size constraints inherent in ROM or Eprom approaches that limited the size of the software that could be stored there and was wondering if they'd come up with a tactic to circumvent this limitation or if the AROS kickstart software was truly going to have to be contained within these small ROM.
I'd always assumed there would be someway to load this to RAM and not have to deal with a size limitation.
Is it an issue of how much space a Kickstart ROM can be mapped to or other problem?
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The AROS "ROM" gets you free of copyright issues, and is thus very important to users of FPGA Amigas and emulators.
It can also provide new features for classic Amigas if used, although there are also projects out there that rebuild the classic Kickstarts with bugfixed, up to date features too. However with the 1MB ROM limit (or 512KB for some) it's always going to be a squeeze on a classic Amiga.
If you have an A1200 or A4000, you've got a ROM already and don't need to worry. If you like you can use a patched Amiga Kickstart instead. AROS is just an interesting thing, not a necessity.
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The AROS "ROM" gets you free of copyright issues, and is thus very important to users of FPGA Amigas and emulators.
It can also provide new features for classic Amigas if used, although there are also projects out there that rebuild the classic Kickstarts with bugfixed, up to date features too. However with the 1MB ROM limit (or 512KB for some) it's always going to be a squeeze on a classic Amiga.
If you have an A1200 or A4000, you've got a ROM already and don't need to worry. If you like you can use a patched Amiga Kickstart instead. AROS is just an interesting thing, not a necessity.
Thanks. The first part I kind of already understood. And the rest helps somewhat.
Does that mean that in older Amigas there no way past a 512KB limit?
And if the later Amigas have 1MB ROM does that mean that an AROS kickstart will be easier to create for them or offer more features?
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The use of m68k AROS is being free of copyright restraints.
It would mean that Minimig/FPGA-Arcade can be offered as a works-out-of-the box solution. In contrast to the current situation where you need access to a classic Amiga to extract the ROM(s). And ofcourse the hassle to do the extraction.
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It can also provide new features for classic Amigas if used, although there are also projects out there that rebuild the classic Kickstarts with bugfixed, up to date features too. However with the 1MB ROM limit (or 512KB for some) it's always going to be a squeeze on a classic Amiga.
Can you point me to one of these projects? I don't know diddly about EPROM burning/programing but I'm getting quite interested, even just to learn about it. And from above, I was focused on classics in thought, not FPGAs
AROS + FPGA, makes sense, extends functionality.
AROS + classic, case isn't as strong for the end user / consumer, IMO
@nicholas, good I see you get my point.
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I'd always assumed there would be someway to load this to RAM and not have to deal with a size limitation.
Is it an issue of how much space a Kickstart ROM can be mapped to or other problem?
If you put something in the ROM socket, there is no direct way around the space limitation if you want everything in ROM/flash, as the limit is because of the number of address lines available on the various models.
But of course you could put extra ROM/flash/RAM on the Zorro bus etc.
Or you can put some stuff in ROM/flash and a second stage boot loader that'll let you load a larger image from RAM, similar to what is done on the A1000.
So yes, there are ways around it, but the reason for trying to get as much as possible into a 512K or 1M image would be for compatibility with as wide range of classics as possible when booting floppies etc. where there's no convenient way to load another ROM image first (it'd be pretty sucky to put in a replacement ROM/flash on an A500 and have to boot a second stage image from floppy before you can boot a disk that depends on C:loadwb bringing up a Workbench, for example...).
For booting from a harddisk etc. this is pretty much a non-issue, since you pretty much only need enough in the kickstart to recognize the boot device and be able to load files from it.
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Can you point me to one of these projects? I don't know diddly about EPROM burning/programing but I'm getting quite interested, even just to learn about it. And from above, I was focused on classics in thought, not FPGAs
AROS + FPGA, makes sense, extends functionality.
AROS + classic, case isn't as strong for the end user / consumer, IMO
@nicholas, good I see you get my point.
I can point you to people who do EPROM burning for a very minimal cost (so low that even if I could do it, I'd pay for it).
And the above was kind of the focus of what I've been asking:
"And from above, I was focused on classics in thought, not FPGAs
AROS + FPGA, makes sense, extends functionality.
AROS + classic, case isn't as strong for the end user / consumer, IMO"
Nicholas has mentioned bringing new features to the bootstrap process (like RTG) in custom ROMs/Eproms and I get that.
It would allow features to be enabled before a floppy or whdload, w/o having to but AROS68K loaded from a drive.
But as a full AROS68K should be loadable from a drive, are there any other specific advantages?
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Something like what DENEB offers. If I have the power / control to pick and choose binaries (boingbags, whatever) to execute at boot up, why do I need AROS?
You don't "need" AROS on a classic unless you want the improvements that AROS can bring.
The benefit of AROS is in the long term where we can update any OS component without having to resort to piles of SetFunction()'s for example.
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Thanks. The first part I kind of already understood. And the rest helps somewhat.
Does that mean that in older Amigas there no way past a 512KB limit?
And if the later Amigas have 1MB ROM does that mean that an AROS kickstart will be easier to create for them or offer more features?
Are the ROMs shipped with classic Amigas flashable? As far as I know they are not. In other words, if you need a new Kickstart you have to buy new hardware. If you want to use a larger kickstart you buy a Kickstart replacement chip/board that can handle it.
The main issue with the size of the AROS ROM is with the size of Wanderer. There has been talk of creating a Wanderer Lite to get around this issue. Other than that, there are no major components (AFAIK) that will need reworking to make an AROS ROM of a similar size to a classic AmigaOS ROM. For some software, you don't even need a Workbench replacement like Wanderer anyway (such as most games), so for this software the issue of size is not applicable.
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Are the ROMs shipped with classic Amigas flashable? As far as I know they are not. In other words, if you need a new Kickstart you have to buy new hardware. If you want to use a larger kickstart you buy a Kickstart replacement chip/board that can handle it.
The main issue with the size of the AROS ROM is with the size of Wanderer. There has been talk of creating a Wanderer Lite to get around this issue. Other than that, there are no major components (AFAIK) that will need reworking to make an AROS ROM of a similar size to a classic AmigaOS ROM. For some software, you don't even need a Workbench replacement like Wanderer anyway (such as most games), so for this software the issue of size is not applicable.
Jason already started on "wanderer lite" he called it workbook iirc. =]
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Jason already started on "wanderer lite" he called it workbook iirc. =]
Ah cool! I noticed lou_dias used that name in this thread, but I didn't realise Jason was working on it, good times. :-) Just found a screenshot of Workbook (clearly WIP):
http://download.aros3d.org/pictures/workbook.jpg
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Jason already started on "wanderer lite" he called it workbook iirc. =]
Yes, I know the original ROMS are flashable, but these last two posts help make things clearer still.
So, except for the workbench replacement, everything will fit?
And as far as size limitations, I wasn't suggesting this:
"it'd be pretty sucky to put in a replacement ROM/flash on an A500 and have to boot a second stage image from floppy before you can boot a disk"
I was thinking more toward a larger banked EPROM that could appear as a 512KB or 1MB ROM but hold more when booting.
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So, except for the workbench replacement, everything will fit?
Here's a useful post, made by one of the two main developers of the AROS 68k branch, Jason McMullan:
http://www.minimig.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=372
Couple of quotes from the post:
By the way, the current status of AROS m68k is that it can run most shell and GUI commands of Workbench 1.3 and 3.x, and several applications. We're currently missing a lightweight 'Workbench', so you have to use the very bulky 'Wanderer' or some other workbench replacement.
Sorry for the large size of the ROMs, but they are jam-packed with debugging code. We plan to shrink them quite a bit once we have full functionality.
In other words, yes, in time.
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Here's a useful post, made by one of the two main developers of the AROS 68k branch, Jason McMullan:
http://www.minimig.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=372
Couple of quotes from the post:
In other words, yes, in time.
Interesting. Anyone here try the builds referenced?
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Yet another stupid question in reference to this post on another thread.
Hey, I still use the disks to start my A1000. Main reason is I have so many old games that will not boot under anything higher than 1.3 (1.2 in several cases!). I need to figure out how to add the ROM, AND still be able to boot from floppy.
So some people are booting from floppy anyway to load old revisions for game compatibility.
Willing AROS offer better compatibility, or the ability to boot to a floppy?
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And as far as size limitations, I wasn't suggesting this:
"it'd be pretty sucky to put in a replacement ROM/flash on an A500 and have to boot a second stage image from floppy before you can boot a disk"
I was thinking more toward a larger banked EPROM that could appear as a 512KB or 1MB ROM but hold more when booting.
If you were to place such a hypothetical board in the ROM socket, it'd need to implement logic for bank switching. Not impossible, but it'd be messy. E.g. you could have some tiny bootstrap logic copy the initial 512K or 1MB to RAM, and have some logic set up so that attempts to read/write a specific address in the ROM address space trigger a change in additional address lines on your card. But if you want to do that, then you *need* to copy the contents to RAM, as there's no way to make the whole image available at the same time via the ROM socket if it exceeds the size limit.
A device on the Zorro bus, like a Deneb for example, is probably a better option then.
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If you were to place such a hypothetical board in the ROM socket, it'd need to implement logic for bank switching. Not impossible, but it'd be messy. E.g. you could have some tiny bootstrap logic copy the initial 512K or 1MB to RAM, and have some logic set up so that attempts to read/write a specific address in the ROM address space trigger a change in additional address lines on your card. But if you want to do that, then you *need* to copy the contents to RAM, as there's no way to make the whole image available at the same time via the ROM socket if it exceeds the size limit.
A device on the Zorro bus, like a Deneb for example, is probably a better option then.
Your last comment is valid, but I like the idea you mentioned in the first paragraph. The delay would be minimal and it would solve the size issue.
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To make your own:
http://aminet.net/package/docs/hard/DC-KF500
There were tries in the past from some guys like ROMflash (http://www.terminal-entry.de/amiga/romflash.html) that sadly never made it in the open.
I found that making your own custom kickstart (http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=11935) is cool. If you map it via MapROM (like ACA cards) or in FPGA Arcade is better and full of win
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Ah cool! I noticed lou_dias used that name in this thread, but I didn't realise Jason was working on it, good times. :-) Just found a screenshot of Workbook (clearly WIP):
http://download.aros3d.org/pictures/workbook.jpg
Yeah, I forgot Zune = MUI and Wanderer = Workbench in AROS land. I meant Wanderer. And Wanderer-lite = Workbook
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Can you point me to one of these projects?
Sorry, I don't have a direct link. I think there was something recently on EAB - someone is enhancing some core Kickstart libraries and making ROM images.
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If you put something in the ROM socket, there is no direct way around the space limitation if you want everything in ROM/flash, as the limit is because of the number of address lines available on the various models.
Mumbles something about wires and soldering to CPU address pins... It must be possible, especially with something like that German EPROM board where you can solder the other end to the wire to the spare EPROM pins.
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And as far as size limitations, I wasn't suggesting this:
"it'd be pretty sucky to put in a replacement ROM/flash on an A500 and have to boot a second stage image from floppy before you can boot a disk"
I was thinking more toward a larger banked EPROM that could appear as a 512KB or 1MB ROM but hold more when booting.
Well, what abotu a dual-stage ROM boot? Have the actual aros-start image highly compressed in there. Initial boot uncompresses that into RAM and then does a softkick-alike thing to then boot that RAM image of the firmware?
I suppose that requires a known available amount of RAM at a known location, which may or may not be true for all Amiga motherboards/acceleartors. Has this been discussed anywhere for me to read up on?
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Mumbles something about wires and soldering to CPU address pins... It must be possible, especially with something like that German EPROM board where you can solder the other end to the wire to the spare EPROM pins.
Heh. Actually that might be possible. Back when I had my A500 I had a couple of things soldered straight onto the pins of my 68000 :D Alternatively moving the CPU to a socket on a board slotting into the CPU socket with a flash tied to it should be doable for a cleaner solution, at least on machines with a 68000 (no idea how sensitive the faster 680x0's are to noise/poor connection from something like that, but with the 68000 at least you can get away with murder).
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Sorry, I don't have a direct link. I think there was something recently on EAB - someone is enhancing some core Kickstart libraries and making ROM images.
Hattig, do you mean the work Cosmos is doing (see links below)?
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=57950
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=57419
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To make your own:
http://aminet.net/package/docs/hard/DC-KF500
There were tries in the past from some guys like ROMflash (http://www.terminal-entry.de/amiga/romflash.html) that sadly never made it in the open.
I found that making your own custom kickstart (http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=11935) is cool. If you map it via MapROM (like ACA cards) or in FPGA Arcade is better and full of win
Wow, so there are some hackers here (and in the Amiga community).
I'm really impressed with where you guys are going with this and the question becomes - why not?
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Yeah, I think that's the person I was thinking of. Thanks for finding it!
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Does that mean that in older Amigas there no way past a 512KB limit?
A500 and A2000 are easy.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52079
A1000 is just as easy to convert to a 42pin rom as it is a 40pin rom, >256mb of WOM is hard.
A600 and up support 1mb roms
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To make your own:
http://aminet.net/package/docs/hard/DC-KF500
There were tries in the past from some guys like ROMflash (http://www.terminal-entry.de/amiga/romflash.html) that sadly never made it in the open.
I found that making your own custom kickstart (http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=11935) is cool. If you map it via MapROM (like ACA cards) or in FPGA Arcade is better and full of win
Ah, thanks mfilos! This is pretty much what I been think of.
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AROS m68k ROM + AROS Wanderer = Complete open source solution for Amiga?
Does it work?
Game compability?
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AROS m68k ROM + AROS Wanderer = Complete open source solution for Amiga?
Does it work?
Game compability?
There is plenty of proof out there that it works. Best way to test it for yourself is by running a nightly build of AROS 68k in WinUAE.
Game compatibility is a tricky point to address, as the AROS ROM is improved almost daily at the moment. Let me point you to a comment made by gilgamesh over at AROS-Exec:
http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=54110#forumpost54110
I hope that answers your question. ;-)
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Is it the AROS-20110331-amiga-m68k-system/boot/aros.elf 1081644 bytes long that is the ROM image needed?
"file:"
AROS-20110331-amiga-m68k-system/boot/aros.elf: ELF 32-bit MSB relocatable, Motorola 68000, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped
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Is it the AROS-20110331-amiga-m68k-system/boot/aros.elf 1081644 bytes long that is the ROM image needed?
"file:"
AROS-20110331-amiga-m68k-system/boot/aros.elf: ELF 32-bit MSB relocatable, Motorola 68000, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped
The files you are looking for are in AROS-20110331-amiga-m68k-system/distfiles/
aros-amiga-m68k-rom.bin
aros-amiga-m68k-ext.bin
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Since you are talking of customized roms, I may point you to this page I created with information on custom rom modules to include in your kickstarts:
http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/ROM_modules.htm
I hope you find it usefull :)
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@deadwood, What's the difference between these files?
aros-amiga-m68k-rom.bin
aros-amiga-m68k-ext.bin
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@deadwood, What's the difference between these files?
aros-amiga-m68k-rom.bin
aros-amiga-m68k-ext.bin
The ROM is the first 512K, the EXT is the "extended rom" which is the 2nd 512K.
The CD32 always used 2 roms.
You'll notice in WinUAE you can map a 2nd "extended" rom file.
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The ROM is the first 512K, the EXT is the "extended rom" which is the 2nd 512K.
The CD32 always used 2 roms.
You'll notice in WinUAE you can map a 2nd "extended" rom file.
I didn't know that. Will WinUAE only map a second extended ROM only with 512MB ROMs or will it accept larger ones?
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WinUAE can map Normal + Extended ROMs, or also Large ROMS like 1MB custom ROMS.
For example if you make an 1MB custom kickstart image, you can either map it as Normal and Extended ROM under WinUAE, or Append the Normal+Extended into a big 1MB ROM image and then:
- Mount it in WinUAE as a big Normal ROM
- Kick it via MapROM using an ACA accelerator
- Burn it in an Eprom Programer (after ByteSwaping the image).
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Can these AROS 2x 512 kB ROMs be used on an Amiga 500 ?
Considering it only has a 256 kB ROM from start.
Also does Wanderer work alright? (not perfect)
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Can these AROS 2x 512 kB ROMs be used on an Amiga 500 ?
Considering it only has a 256 kB ROM from start.
Also does Wanderer work alright? (not perfect)
I don't think AROS works on an A500 at the moment, don't think there's a graphics driver for OCS (yet). It does work on real hardware though, as shown in this blog entry showing AROS running on an A1200:
http://www.evillabs.net/wiki/index.php/AROS_m68k-amiga#Jan_11.2C_2011:_AROS_on_Amiga_1200_.2B_ACA_1230
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WinUAE can map Normal + Extended ROMs, or also Large ROMS like 1MB custom ROMS.
For example if you make an 1MB custom kickstart image, you can either map it as Normal and Extended ROM under WinUAE, or Append the Normal+Extended into a big 1MB ROM image and then:
- Mount it in WinUAE as a big Normal ROM
- Kick it via MapROM using an ACA accelerator
- Burn it in an Eprom Programer (after ByteSwaping the image).
Whoa!
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Can these AROS 2x 512 kB ROMs be used on an Amiga 500 ?
Considering it only has a 256 kB ROM from start.
A500 rev 6+ support 512k roms, earlier versions require a wire added between 1 & 31. To support 1mb roms you need to run some wires to the extra pins on the rom (the socket is 40 pins but a 1mb rom is 42 pins).
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Can these AROS 2x 512 kB ROMs be used on an Amiga 500 ?
No. AROS 68k requires an '020 or better at this point.
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Is DVI behaving in the same manner as Analog VGA does so that even though it's 31kHz hor sync, it's still 50Hz vert sync ? Or does DVI simply just bash the pixels to the screen without the need of a 50Hz sync ?
The reason I ask is that many LCD monitors suck at displaying 50Hz analog VGA. Either they just won't operate, or they display a silly message on the screen which sometimes cannot be clicked away using the OSD on the LCD monitor.
Also, I was wondering if the Replay board uses more or less the same OSD layout as Minimig does, or is it more facelifted when it comes to the layout (e.g. mouse controlled etc?).
//Espen
A tip for people: If you're looking for a monitor to use with the Minimig/FPGA or a normal scan doubled Amiga for PAL modes then chcek out the Viewsonic range. I picked up a couple of 1920x1080 models with VGA & DVI inputs and they work like a charm. In fact, my A4000 has the RTG output to the DVI in 1920x1080 for Workbench and the VGA is used for native modes via the IndivisionAGA. The otehr identical monitor is connected to my A2000 using a Cybervision 643D and an "Amber" SDFF both to the VGA and a PC to the DVI. Minimig looks good on it too.
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No. AROS 68k requires an '020 or better at this point.
Guess FPGA-Arcade will be very handy now .. ;)
Though an 68000 version would be useful for A500, Minimig, etc.. Just a compile option away?
Is there any free C compiler that runs under AmigaOS on 68k?
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Guess FPGA-Arcade will be very handy now .. ;)
Though an 68000 version would be useful for A500, Minimig, etc.. Just a compile option away?
Is there any free C compiler that runs under AmigaOS on 68k?
I doubt if it would help. AROS has many macros that are based on the GCC compiler. I doubt if you could run it on anything less than an '020 anyway. Furthermore, considering that the quality of code generated by GCC is iffy at best on the 68k, you'd be better off hand-compiling on the flat 68k.
I hope someday to make an LLVM-based compiler for AROS. I've even heard there is a college student writing a 68k backend for LLVM. If he pulls that off we will be in much better shape for compilers. LLVM is slightly lighter weight than GCC and the help is much more available on the LLVM mailing list for trying to make high-quality code.
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Is there any software that calls every AmigaOS call and can verify its correctness?
An example could be to openwindow(), capture screen and compare with an reference picture.
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A tip for people: If you're looking for a monitor to use with the Minimig/FPGA or a normal scan doubled Amiga for PAL modes then chcek out the Viewsonic range. I picked up a couple of 1920x1080 models with VGA & DVI inputs and they work like a charm. In fact, my A4000 has the RTG output to the DVI in 1920x1080 for Workbench and the VGA is used for native modes via the IndivisionAGA. The otehr identical monitor is connected to my A2000 using a Cybervision 643D and an "Amber" SDFF both to the VGA and a PC to the DVI. Minimig looks good on it too.
THank you very much for this info. I was wondering how I was gonna dig up a decent model of a monitor that I could use that will cope with the 50Hz sync.
Do you know the modem number of the one you got working ?
Espen
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Guess FPGA-Arcade will be very handy now .. ;)
Though an 68000 version would be useful for A500, Minimig, etc.. Just a compile option away?
Is there any free C compiler that runs under AmigaOS on 68k?
I am just wondering, why would we want to run AROS on a 68k system when we can run Workbench the normal way ? What are there advantages ?
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I am just wondering, why would we want to run AROS on a 68k system when we can run Workbench the normal way ? What are there advantages ?
As far as I can tell, the main advantages are that you could get it legally, without having to dig around e-bait or wherever..
And, it would be supported..
You are right tho, that if Workbench works for you and you have it, you should be fine...
desiv
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I concurr with desiv. AROS 68k makes it possible to offer an "turnkey" solution for Amiga. Ie you plug in power + video to the board and it just works(tm).
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THank you very much for this info. I was wondering how I was gonna dig up a decent model of a monitor that I could use that will cope with the 50Hz sync.
Do you know the modem number of the one you got working ?
Espen
I'm away on a business trip at the moment so I don't have access to the two monitors to check and they'll be "discontinued" models by now anyway... ... ah, found it:
Viewsonic VA2223wm 21.5in 1920x1080 5ms DVI SPK
I bought it from Tiger Direct and they very good about putting the monitor specs on their site.
Here's a list of all of their current Viewsonic monitors:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/guidedSearch.asp?CatId=12&sel=Mfr;Mfr_903
Their cheapest is this one for $99 that does 50Hz with a single VGA input:
Viewsonic VA1931WA-LED 19" Widescreen LED Monitor - 720p, 1366x768, 10000000:1 Dynamic, 5ms, VGA, Anti-glare
Then there is this one (similar to what I bought) with VGA and DVI for $159:
Viewsonic VA2231wm 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 1080p, 1920x1080, 16:9, 1000:1, 100000:1 Dynamic, 5ms, VGA, DVI, Integrated Speakers
One word of warning, they do list 2 "square screen" models and they show 56Hz-75Hz so you'll want to avoid them for PAL modes unless you have an Indivision.
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Thanks Darrin for that info. I will go and check which model my local webshop offers.
EDIT: When I checked one of the webshops here, the WA1931WA-LED is listed as a 76-xx Hz and not from 50Hz->
So I am not quite sure what to do :) It sucks to buy one that does not work, or has this nagging "out of sync" message
flying around on the screen".
I think the best thing to do is to just test a few and see what I end up with. Otherwise I might end up with a disfunctional
LCD screen.
OR: I might buy a LCD with a tuner so I can run my C64-DTV on its sVIDEO ....hmm...maybe that'll be smart. Then I am 100%
sure it will work --- however, I am then locked in a SVIDEO mode...and I don't want that....it's too blurry on WB.
EDIT #2: OR...maybe a LCD TV with a Tuner *MUST* sync at 50Hz for VGA aswell, since it has to sync the PAL signal from the RF tuner. Hm,m,....i need to test :)
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I concurr with desiv. AROS 68k makes it possible to offer an "turnkey" solution for Amiga. Ie you plug in power + video to the board and it just works(tm).
So to summarize that one up rather quick:
Alternative A:
For users who already own an Amiga and there for have WB 3.x disks
Alternative B:
For "new" users who does not have real WB 3.x disks
I see the advantage. But I am wondering if the compatibility on AROS 68K good enough to use as a replacement for "real" WB3.1 + Kickstart from Commodore?
Also -- are there any advantages when running AROS 68k ? Like, memory handling or other things that AROS programmers have though of which lacks in WB ? If yes, then I really agree that it is a nice way to go. But finally, how is the compatiblity to run natice 68k SW when AROS68k is used ? And is there a speed difference ?
Espen
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trivialities like pushing windows outside the screeen are standard on aros(68k), on aos you have to use powerwindows for that (a very good patch). directories open within a browser window with a back gadget, which is more convinient than the way workbench does it. still there sre some behaviour disandvantages on wanderer. anyway i see aros as a replacement for well patched aos 3.9++ setup.
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directories open within a browser window with a back gadget, which is more convinient than the way workbench does it.
Maybe for some, but personally I prefer a 3.x Workbench over Wanderer any day. I hate how wasteful Wanderer is with space in the drawer windows.
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yes, the layout capabilities of wanderer have to improve. i for me hate for instance the cropped file names in the lister, the strict raster layout. the overall functionality is somewhat worse than workbench at this time. but i hope it will be fixed. deadwood works already on optimizing decoration.
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Compatibility and providing a functional workbench clone in ROM are being worked on. We'll have to wait and see where WorkBook gets to, but it would be nice if it evolved into a simple icon-driven space-efficient desktop file management and application launcher. But it is good to talk about what people would want to see included by default in the ROM, and what extensions (non hacks, we need a proper API to extend the tool) would be desirable - custom menus, launcher-bar, etc.
Hey, maybe we could have a mock-up competition! Mock up your best WorkBook icon/lister/etc window, and WorkBook screen, with an aim on simplicity ('cos of the ROM thing).
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my mockup would come close to what 3.1 had to offer plus some extras like above mentioned pushing windows off screen and easy extention for custom menus. wouldnt even need any kitchy dock in such a case. the icon style could remain inline with magic workbench standards if you ask me, with ability to display hiher color ones on deeper screens and color reduced copies down to one plane black and white desktop like mac once had. when ive done planar gadgets for afa i experimented with like 1650x1080 1 plane black and white workbench setting and i must admit, it looked kinda cool for me.
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I've been away from Amiga land for a little while, so please forgive me asking this.
Just to be clear, this FPGA Replay Board is a fast, very highly compatible 020 A1200 on a mini-ITX board, with a possible option for a real 68060 on an expansion board?
:o
My A1200T/060 is flaky and takes up too much room, and I will need to dismantle it anyway when I move the home office soon. A board like Replay in a dinky ITX case would be an ideal replacement, especially if it implemented a 030/060/WHDLoad compatible MMU in the CPU softcore.
Excellent work guys!
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No. AROS 68k requires an '020 or better at this point.
Incorrect. AROS m68k is designed to run on all M68000 architectures, from A1000 to A4000, limited only by available RAM (you needs at least 2M of CHIP plus 1M of anything else to boot at present).
If it doesn't boot on your rig (that has the RAM), it's a bug.
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I've been away from Amiga land for a little while, so please forgive me asking this.
Just to be clear, this FPGA Replay Board is a fast, very highly compatible 020 A1200 on a mini-ITX board, with a possible option for a real 68060 on an expansion board?
Mostly right, except it's much smaller than a Mini-ITX board (less than half the depth, IIRC). It's designed so it can be fitted in a Mini-ITX enclosure, but there'll be plenty of spare room, so a custom enclosure could be even smaller.
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For file management, I prefer Dopus 4.x.
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For file management, I prefer Dopus 4.x.
Yeah, I did too back in the day - nice software.
But it won't fit into the odd spare 30KB on a ROM!
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@vidarh Does the Replay CPU softcore have a MMU?
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Yeah, I did too back in the day - nice software.
But it won't fit into the odd spare 30KB on a ROM!
Rom ? Where ? What ? :-) In which setting do you want dopus in a rom area?
Espen
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@vidarh Does the Replay CPU softcore have a MMU?
I'm pretty sure that it doesn't.
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Rom ? Where ? What ? :-) In which setting do you want dopus in a rom area?
Espen
You can use DOpus as a Workbench replacement, it's lighter than Wanderer so has been discussed as an option until Workbook is ready.
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You can use DOpus as a Workbench replacement, it's lighter than Wanderer so has been discussed as an option until Workbook is ready.
I've used Dopus5 as WB replacement and I kind of liked it. Yet, for filemanagement I like NewShell or simply Dopus4.x. As for launching programs, I prefer using a shell.
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I've been getting some questions about the interfaces on the Replay board.
I hope this helps :
/MikeJ
(http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/replay_overview.jpg)
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Awesome stuff Mike, thanks for sharing the pr0n with details!
FPGA Replay board is full of win! I really can't wait!!! \o/
Keep us posted when you got more news!
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Is there a projected retail price for this goodness yet?
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Mike, what is the connector for beside the DVI output (the one which looks to be some kind of plugin option for a videocard) ?
Also, can you post some status on the current core. Like what is can perform today (cpu type, MHz equivalent, IO thruput etc) and what the roadmap is for the softcore ?
In case you also have some nifty bits of info about the daughterboard to share, that'd be cool too. E.g. the specifications for ports, options, cpu-type options, speed and last but not least: what one can gain from adding the board.
Regs
Espen
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Well, I can answer one of the questions.
The connector is a second daughter board expansion connector which has joystick IO, audio and video on it. It allows a very small expansion board for the JAMMA output card etc. It most cases, only the big expansion connector would be used unless you want to do some funky video or audio stuff.
The CPU daughterboard is still in design, I'll comment more on that when I am sure what is possible.
I will be focusing on the softcore again soon and will update you then.
Best,
Mike
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Hey, we always wants funky stuff...cool to hear the IO is available there. Nice to have for the future.
Ps! A pic of the daughterboard is here: http://www.minimig.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=36&p=4347#p4347 if someone wants to take a look.
Thanks to both you, Mike, and Yaqube for following these threads and answering questions and keeping us updated. It's a real boost to get news. Keep it up. :-)
Are there any cores apart from the amiga core that we can test ? Like arcade cores etc ? Could be cool to try out if they are available.
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How many fpgaarcade boards has been sold so far?
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How many fpgaarcade boards has been sold so far?
100,000.
/Mike
(actually, there are 14 dev boards out there)
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How many fpgaarcade boards has been sold so far?
I know there are 10 promo boards (First batch).
espskog have one
Stefan have one
I have purchased one
So I know 3 persons the others i don't know.
I'm Running WB3.1 Filesystem PFS3 v5.1 with Magic Icons/Newicons right now.
For some reason the turbo/cache mode is not working yet (it gives red screens and reboots) So the speed for now is 6.03 times A600.
The AGA Firmware is from yacube and I hope there will be a update soon so I can use this @ full speed.
A other strange thing is when I use Cygnused, my textfiles get corupted when I use the editor.
When I use the .HDF in UAE Cygnused is working without trouble/errors.
The board is a nice build so small, yet so powerfull ;-) a real gem if u ask me !!
I'm very happy with this FPGAReplay board..
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Is usage of the board completly dependent on binary (AGA) releases by yaqube? (or someone else)
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Well, I am building both the ARM firmware and FPGA core as well.
I am working to tidy it up, and there will be a full release which everybody can
contribute to as soon as I get there.
I have a wrapper release which contains building blocks for your own use as well.
/Mike
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Mike, did you get my email and PM?
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>when I use Cygnused, my textfiles get corupted when I use the editor
Ced use the blitter...
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I know there are 10 promo boards (First batch).
espskog have one
Stefan have one
I have purchased one
So I know 3 persons the others i don't know.
I'm Running WB3.1 Filesystem PFS3 v5.1 with Magic Icons/Newicons right now.
For some reason the turbo/cache mode is not working yet (it gives red screens and reboots) So the speed for now is 6.03 times A600.
The AGA Firmware is from yacube and I hope there will be a update soon so I can use this @ full speed.
A other strange thing is when I use Cygnused, my textfiles get corupted when I use the editor.
When I use the .HDF in UAE Cygnused is working without trouble/errors.
The board is a nice build so small, yet so powerfull ;-) a real gem if u ask me !!
I'm very happy with this FPGAReplay board..
Regarding CynusED and corrupted text, this is not a Replay board issue. It is just a screen mode issue. Had this on my Amiga 4000 awell. Just put it to use "Workbench Screen" instead of its own screen. Then it's ok :-)
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Cool, the core is even bug compatible ;-))
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mikej how do you get on the list for fpgareplay preordering can you pay via paypal?
plus how much is it with the daughterboard with the 68060 attached?
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mikej how do you get on the list for fpgareplay preordering can you pay via paypal?
plus how much is it with the daughterboard with the 68060 attached?
the daughterboard is not available yet and is done by Yaqube
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Regarding CynusED and corrupted text, this is not a Replay board issue. It is just a screen mode issue. Had this on my Amiga 4000 awell. Just put it to use "Workbench Screen" instead of its own screen. Then it's ok :-)
Sorry I have to disagree.
I'm using Workbench screen.
Cygnused V4.2
1. Load s:startup-sequence into ced
2. delete first line.
3. now use the cursor down key to go to the bottom of the text.
4. text is corupted.
Don't save the file ;-)
When I put this .HDF image on WINUAE (so my workbench .HDF), I do NOT have this problem.
All is fine in WINUAE without coruptions.. same HD same settings.
You also have a FPGA Replay just try it out...
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Maybe CED v4.2 requires all 020+ instructions and addressing modes?
The FPGA CPU is missing some features, yes?
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Try it on real Amigas?
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Maybe CED v4.2 requires all 020+ instructions and addressing modes?
The FPGA CPU is missing some features, yes?
Yes I think so, that's why i installed the 68000 version of ced.
About trying on a real amiga . I sold my real amiga's after building the minimig's so I can't test it here, sorry about that..
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Sorry I have to disagree.
I'm using Workbench screen.
Cygnused V4.2
1. Load s:startup-sequence into ced
2. delete first line.
3. now use the cursor down key to go to the bottom of the text.
4. text is corupted.
Don't save the file ;-)
When I put this .HDF image on WINUAE (so my workbench .HDF), I do NOT have this problem.
All is fine in WINUAE without coruptions.. same HD same settings.
You also have a FPGA Replay just try it out...
I agree, this sounds like a different scenario from what I had. But since the Core is under development, bugs like these (reproduceable ones) are nice for Mike and Yaqube as this can help fix the Core up.
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reproducible bugs are can be easily fixed usually. I have a real a1200 to play with so I can compare the blitter behaviour.
I am starting a log of known bugs, and this will eventually go up on the website, along with hopefully a code repository so everybody can submit fixes.
/MikeJ
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Yaqube will the daughter board be sold populated with 68060? and if not can a pga one like MOTOROLA (CPU) XC68060RC50A - Mask 01G65V fit it?
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It's a bit early to comment on the daughter board but it will be available without the processor.
/MikeJ
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mikej do you have idea for when you'll be selling a consumer version of your fpgaarcade and is it still going to be like €¡80 to €230?
Will people be buying direct from you? or are you getting a shop/trader like amigakit to sell them for you?
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yup, still looking in the 200Euro (+vat) range for the non-composite/svhs version.
Direct from me, although some distributors will also carry stock.
Things have been delayed by the need to respin the board slightly to adjust the DVI - audio spacing. This is done and I should get the PCBs back in a few weeks.
/MikeJ
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Just as a curiosity, will you be able to provide some sort of servicing if the board bricks ?
I guess you are the only person among the x-kazillion ones on this planet who are certified fpga replay engineer ;-)
//Espen
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The board has a firmware recovery mode where you can re-flash the ARM code - no matter what happens!
The board has a 1 year return to me in case of hardware failure, and will be repaired or replaced at my option. After that I'll deal with returns on a individual basis and will repair at cost if possible.
It's pretty easy to tell if the board has been damaged by abuse, and user inflicted damage is not covered, but will be repaired at cost if possible :)
Best,
Mike
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This is excellent. Really looking forward to availability of these with an 060 board (or WHD compatible MMU in the CPU softcore ;)
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Is there a preorder list for the replay board? Where?? I have two friends interested, too.
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Try it on real Amigas?
I assume you mean to try the softcore CPU in real Amigas. Check this out:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=52364
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No I meant exactly what I said, try it on a real Amiga. That is not things being simulated in any manner.
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Is there a preorder list for the replay board? Where?? I have two friends interested, too.
I've been thinking the same myself, is there a list?
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I have a list of people who have expressed interest, and some of those have received prototype board.
There will be another 40 boards shortly and as soon as I get around to it I'll set up a pre-order page. If you email me (mikej@fpgaarcade.com) then I'll add you to my informal list.
/Mike
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has jakub got a preorder list for his daughter board yet? and a price?
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Email sent to be added to the preorder list
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has jakub got a preorder list for his daughter board yet? and a price?
He's still working on it. Give him a chance. :D
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He's still working on it. Give him a chance. :D
NO !!! times up, he hase to be ready now , no more time to waste !!! LOL
I know i'm dreaming but it's so nice to see this nice piece of hardware.
Nice going Yaqube it looks like this board is making the replay a A4000++ Sweet :-)
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I have a list of people who have expressed interest, and some of those have received prototype board.
There will be another 40 boards shortly and as soon as I get around to it I'll set up a pre-order page. If you email me (mikej@fpgaarcade.com) then I'll add you to my informal list.
/Mike
Wish I hadn't said that now, I've been emailed to death.
Sorry if I don't respond to everybody, I'm keeping a list though.
Cheers,
Mike
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I suggest a page where one could sign up for a board by your own. That way you can take the manual administration out of the loop.
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Wish I hadn't said that now, I've been emailed to death.
Sorry if I don't respond to everybody, I'm keeping a list though.
Cheers,
Mike
No, that's a good thing Mike ;)
I still think you'd be better getting an established partner on board with a retail web store who can handle shipping and warranty support etc.
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Wish I hadn't said that now, I've been emailed to death.
Sorry if I don't respond to everybody, I'm keeping a list though.
Cheers,
Mike
40 boards aren't going to satisfy 1/5th of the demand, are they? :)
Nice to have the interest and I hope you can ramp up the production rate to satisfy the demand for these great boards. I also hope that MikeJ, or someone else, comes up with a nice case design for the Replay boards, with, or without the daughtercards that will come later.
Just think about how much the interest in this board will multiply when there are more Arcade systems that it can emulate/clone, as well as other computer systems. You might easily have several hundreds of interested buyers, if not thousands.
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40 boards aren't going to satisfy 1/5th of the demand, are they? :)
Nice to have the interest and I hope you can ramp up the production rate to satisfy the demand for these great boards. I also hope that MikeJ, or someone else, comes up with a nice case design for the Replay boards, with, or without the daughtercards that will come later.
Just think about how much the interest in this board will multiply when there are more Arcade systems that it can emulate/clone, as well as other computer systems. You might easily have several hundreds of interested buyers, if not thousands.
I think MikeJ is going to sell truckloads of his Replay board.
I already have one off the boards and the design and handeling is perfect.
I'm also bussy with a plexiglass case just I have made for the Minimig.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56991
This will include a case for the baseboard, and a case for the FPGAArcade including the daugtherboard..
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Anyone tried AROS 68k (http://aros.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/nightly-download?20110417/Binaries/AROS-20110417-amiga-m68k-system.tar.bz2) on Minimig or FpgaArcade?
Result(s) ?
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Anyone tried AROS 68k (http://aros.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/nightly-download?20110417/Binaries/AROS-20110417-amiga-m68k-system.tar.bz2) on Minimig or FpgaArcade?
Result(s) ?
Current AROS 68k builds require a 68020 minimum at the moment, so the MiniMig v1.x won't run it...
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The AROS chaps sent me some code, I'm working on it....
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No. AROS 68k requires an '020 or better at this point.
Incorrect. AROS m68k is designed to run on all M68000 architectures, from A1000 to A4000, limited only by available RAM (you needs at least 2M of CHIP plus 1M of anything else to boot at present).
If it doesn't boot on your rig (that has the RAM), it's a bug.
So the rumor that the requirement is 68020 or better is false.
Now someone actually tried instead of assuming it doesn't work?
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So the rumor that the requirement is 68020 or better is false.
Now someone actually tried instead of assuming it doesn't work?
I have to ask though, if your running a 680x0 machine then what advantage does AROS give you over Amikit or ClassicWorkbench installation of a "real" workbench?
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I have to ask though, if your running a 680x0 machine then what advantage does AROS give you over Amikit or ClassicWorkbench installation of a "real" workbench?
If you have a Minimig and no legal copy of Kickstart / Workbench to use with it?
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I have to ask though, if your running a 680x0 machine then what advantage does AROS give you over Amikit or ClassicWorkbench installation of a "real" workbench?
At this point... what kind of stupid question is that?
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At this point... what kind of stupid question is that?
In defense of Darrin, that is in no way a stupid question. Why trade a know product for a product that is likely to be slower and less reliable (at least initially)/
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@freqmax
EZrec is one of the contributing programmers to the AROS 68k project. I based my argument on some of the older postings he made to the AROS mailing list. If he says it will work on a flat 68000, then it can.
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I have to ask though, if your running a 680x0 machine then what advantage does AROS give you over Amikit or ClassicWorkbench installation of a "real" workbench?
Amikit is running AfaOS. That stands for AROS for Amigas. It is a patchwork hybrid between AROS and Amiga's native kickstart image.
The main advantage is that you can legally make your own Kickstart with native drivers for all of the functionality of the Amiga-like machine you are using. Also, it allows using a more up-to-date version of the GCC compiler since AROS 68k supports the ELF binary format as well as the Amiga HUNK binary format. Hopefully, this means that the AROS version of Origyn Web Browser will run on RTG-equipped Amigas someday.
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In defense of Darrin, that is in no way a stupid question,
Maybe not the first time it was asked, but this one has been asked and answered umpteen times already. And the answer is pretty obvious too. The question is pretty much on the same level as "What is the advantage of using ReactOS over Windows?"
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The advantage with a hardware description source (HDL) together with a c-source of Kickstart and workbench is that you can provide a solution that will boot out of the box.
Insert flashcard, plug in power and video = works.
Original KS and WB can be taken care of at a later time.
It will also be the final *plonk* on McEwen and any possible feature clones. :P
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So the rumor that the requirement is 68020 or better is false.
Now someone actually tried instead of assuming it doesn't work?
020 is for the picasso driver in UAE-E, the OCS/ECS/AGA driver is not recommended as there has not been much effort put into them yet.
Then you need 1mb of ram that doesn't disappear after a reboot to store aros in. So if you only have chip ram then you need 2mb of it, so 1mb of it is used for storing aros and the rest is used as chip ram. If you don't have 2mb of chip ram then you need at least 1mb of local fast.
When it's complete you'll be able to burn a rom and then it will be alot simpler, except you'll need to figure out how to add 1mb roms.
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020 is for the picasso driver in UAE-E, the OCS/ECS/AGA driver is not recommended as there has not been much effort put into them yet.
Then you need 1mb of ram that doesn't disappear after a reboot to store aros in. So if you only have chip ram then you need 2mb of it, so 1mb of it is used for storing aros and the rest is used as chip ram. If you don't have 2mb of chip ram then you need at least 1mb of local fast.
When it's complete you'll be able to burn a rom and then it will be alot simpler, except you'll need to figure out how to add 1mb roms.
Or don't figure that out just yet. Compress the ROM instead and unpack in RAM at boot. It will make classic Amigas faster too, avoiding the slow ROM chip at runtime except boot.
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I have to ask though, if your running a 680x0 machine then what advantage does AROS give you over Amikit or ClassicWorkbench installation of a "real" workbench?
I was also asking myself that very same question. It seems like the biggest selling point is that you can boot it without a valid licensed copy of the original Workbench. However, when that is said, I am 100% sure that absolutely nobody really cares about that. I am pretty sure that everyone here owned/owns a classic Amiga and therefore already have payd the licensing fee to Commodore at one point -- therefore it does not matter if you DL the kickstart/wbdisks from the net at a later point. In my opinion.
I mean -- we're in 2011 now. Nobody makes money off WB anymore. It's a retro thing now. It's for fun.
:afro: :afro: :afro:
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If someone makes a AROS 68K Hardfile which works for MiniMig or for Replay boards, can they please post links to where others can download and try ? It'd be nice :-)
//Espen
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It will make classic Amigas faster too, avoiding the slow ROM chip at runtime except boot.
ROM is only slower than RAM if you have an accelerator with onboard RAM, which will generally have a way of caching it itself anyway.
If you only have chip RAM then keeping as much code in ROM as you can is going to be faster too.
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I was also asking myself that very same question. It seems like the biggest selling point is that you can boot it without a valid licensed copy of the original Workbench.
For now, that's probably right. Going forwards it means new functionality as AROS gets improved beyond the 3.x level, without an ever growing list of SetFunction() kludges and similar stuff. We're rapidly closing in on parity with 3.x.
And in some cases we're better. E.g. AROS console.device and console handler has a bunch of KingCON: style functionality already, and will get more (I keep using this example, since it's code I've worked on and know - there are tons of other bits and pieces in other parts of AROS too).
Of course, you can use KingCON and all the other fixes and workarounds instead. The fact that most people do is why a "modern" AmigaOS 3.x system is a heap of kludges and patches and commodities and replacements for OS files. AROS provides a way out of that, and allows us to create a nice clean foundation and improve that directly instead.
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020 is for the picasso driver in UAE-E, the OCS/ECS/AGA driver is not recommended as there has not been much effort put into them yet.
How to enable the Picasso driver in Uae-E ..?
Then you need 1mb of ram that doesn't disappear after a reboot to store aros in. So if you only have chip ram then you need 2mb of it, so 1mb of it is used for storing aros and the rest is used as chip ram. If you don't have 2mb of chip ram then you need at least 1mb of local fast.
When it's complete you'll be able to burn a rom and then it will be alot simpler, except you'll need to figure out how to add 1mb roms.
So the extra 1 MB is for AROS storage. Should not be problem with a ROM-EEPROM replacement. And for Minimig/FpgaArcade it's just to replace the existing one ;)
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Note that Minimig has no fast ram at all, even with 4MB, only chip ram and slow ram.
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I think that's not too hard to change. The only real hard limit is the 32 MB (?) onboard RAM.
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More update goodness!
http://www.minimig.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=36&start=67
(http://www.minimig.net/yaqube/images/RPX060PCB4.JPG)
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More update goodness!
http://www.minimig.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=36&start=67
(http://www.minimig.net/yaqube/images/RPX060PCB4.JPG)
Wow, that is nice! And tiny too!
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In defense of Darrin, that is in no way a stupid question. Why trade a know product for a product that is likely to be slower and less reliable (at least initially)/
Thank you Iggy. That's exactly my point. We all have Workbench and if we don't then we can get it the same way we get ADFs of games. So why use something that almost does the same to replace something that already does what you want it to.
As you pointed out, I wasn't having a go at AROS but rather pointing out that we already have a tried and tested solution. :)
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Maybe not the first time it was asked, but this one has been asked and answered umpteen times already. And the answer is pretty obvious too. The question is pretty much on the same level as "What is the advantage of using ReactOS over Windows?"
Yeah, the answer is obvious: NONE.
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Of course, you can use KingCON and all the other fixes and workarounds instead. The fact that most people do is why a "modern" AmigaOS 3.x system is a heap of kludges and patches and commodities and replacements for OS files. AROS provides a way out of that, and allows us to create a nice clean foundation and improve that directly instead.
My point is, that until AROS provides the same compatability as the "heap of kludges" then it continues to make sense to use the "heap of kludges" instead.
Yes, it will be nice to have an AROS install that works as a 100% compatable Workbench 3.x replacement and installs in one go instead of in various steps. Let me know when that happens and meanwhile I look forward to seeing HDF files of AROS installs released on a regular basis which I can test.
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I'm pretty sure AROS is a heap of kludges as well. That is just how it is with Operating Systems. We ain't programming with dip switches anymore :D
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Yeah, the answer is obvious: NONE.
I also thought the answer was obvious: LICENSING
:lol:
desiv
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I also thought the answer was obvious: LICENSING
:lol:
desiv
As opposed to "pirating". :D
Fair point, if it works. :)
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LICENSING = Hordes of evil lawyers.
AROS-m68k is also in the beginning. It's the first actually working version. But that's also means one can have a starting point in something that works. Instead of writing lot's of code and hope it succedds.
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Has anyone mentioned in this thread about laptop option? I think we have but I'll do it again. It's pretty skinny, it could maybe become mobile Amiga. With the right kinda of kit. Would have keyboard, screen, a place to mount it down, power supply, battery solution etc.
Oh, people are all over that apparently
http://www.mini-itx.com/2007/01/19/the-itx-laptop
We could do better though.
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More update goodness!
http://www.minimig.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=36&start=67
(http://www.minimig.net/yaqube/images/RPX060PCB4.JPG)
That... I WANT THAT!
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Any idea what the EXPANSION board is going to cost (with AND without 060)?
I've got money put aside for Replay and now need to for this goodie!
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Let's be happy if the baseboard makes it out of the door first..
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Let's be happy if the baseboard makes it out of the door first..
Oh I will be, I'd love to get one of MikeJ's boards, but you must admit that image with the expansion board does look awesome ;)
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What's the status of the project currently?
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What's the status of the project currently?
were waiting on mikej to sell his new batch of 40ty fpga arcade replays to his chosen 40ty new friends.
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Hmm... so when are we getting the board then? (mass production I mean)
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not sure, All I know his i might be able to buy one of the next batch of 40ty.
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not sure, All I know his i might be able to buy one of the next batch of 40ty.
Let's say I'd like to get three FPGA boards for me and two friends: where should I ask?
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not sure, All I know his i might be able to buy one of the next batch of 40ty.
Who do you keep writing 40 as 40ty ????
Do you write all numbers like that ????
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Dunno thought it looked better than forty
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Dunno thought it looked better than forty
Wouldn't you write 4ty then? Anyway, for the purposes of discussion 40 should be sufficient!
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PCB B2 about to go to fabrication (tomorrow).
This is the optimized for production board and fixes the power-off issue and improves the DVI to audio spacing.
I'm off to China on Monday and will pick the boards up.
/MikeJ
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PCB B2 about to go to fabrication (tomorrow).
This is the optimized for production board and fixes the power-off issue and improves the DVI to audio spacing.
I'm off to China on Monday and will pick the boards up.
/MikeJ
Nice work Mike. Have fun on your trip. Unfortunately my board arrived 2 days after I left for my trip so I should finally get to play with it Saturday morning for a couple of hours before I fly to the UK.
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I was going to ask you, it seemed to be taking a while to get across the pond.
Ah, so we will both be in th UK on Monday, I'm passing through on my way east.
Cheers,
Mike
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I was going to ask you, it seemed to be taking a while to get across the pond.
Ah, so we will both be in th UK on Monday, I'm passing through on my way east.
Cheers,
Mike
I'll be in London Sunday, Swansea on Monday and Cardiff Tuesday. I'll try and pop in and visit AmigaKit...
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I was using amiga professionally back in the days of OCS/ECs and have been in and out of the amiga seen over the last several years.
The first thing I have noticed, on this site, is the large variety of FPGA based Amiga compatibles out there, especially the Natami and FPGA Arcade (or is it the FPGA Replay).
All quite cool!
but I am a bit confused about the different versions of FPGA based Amiga compatibles out there!
Does anyone have a Compilation of features, a buyers guide if you will, of FPGA amigas?
I guess what I am really trying to understand, is what is the level compatibility? (ie is Chameleon very compatible, or this MCC-216 very compatible?)
Can they play ocs, aga, rtg games?
What versions of ths AmigaoOS each can handle ?
How do you get floppies or .adf onto these things
How do you build a hard drive partition?
How do you get the Kickstart on these things?
Can one use these on a network?
Which kickstarts can etch of these things use. 1.3, 3.1, (a native 3.9 kickstart (not softbooted))?
What ports do each of these things have. joystick, serial, floppy, s-video, VGA, hdmi, (example natami looks very complete)
what is the chipset (ie OCS/ECS, AGA, and RTG)
Which 680x0
Can one use whdload?
What is the Amiga experience? somewhat subjective (aka WinUAE is very cool, but isn't quite the experience as running an OCS game on an A500 or A2000)
I am assuming this is the non-complete list of the different FPGA amigas
Minimig <---The start
Minimig AGA <---has this been produced yet??
Chameleon (C64 cartridge, that has Ethernet and can run Amiga OS) <--- This is perhaps the most confusing to me.
C-One <--- isn't this developed as a c64 board
Multi Classic Computer (looks like it has a nice small package, but........)
FPGA Arcade <---- in beta, can have emulated or a 680x0 daughter card (looks like everyone is excited about his one)
Natami <---- looks to be very complete (including floppy controller), can have emulated or a 680x0 daughter card
more???
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I am assuming this is the non-complete list of the different FPGA amigas
Minimig <---The start
Minimig AGA <---has this been produced yet??
Chameleon (C64 cartridge, that has Ethernet and can run Amiga OS) <--- This is perhaps the most confusing to me.
C-One <--- isn't this developed as a c64 board
Multi Classic Computer (looks like it has a nice small package, but........)
FPGA Arcade <---- in beta, can have emulated or a 680x0 daughter card (looks like everyone is excited about his one)
Natami <---- looks to be very complete (including floppy controller), can have emulated or a 680x0 daughter card
more???
The Minimig is tried and tested, but I'd tell everyone to make sure they buy the 4MB version and not the 2MB. I have one with the extra ARM board (which provides faster hard file access and easier upgrading).
Minimig AGA and FPGA Arcade are the same thing. I have one of the last beta boards and MikeJ is off to China this week to run off a batch of "gold" boards for general sale. It will also run other cores to give you other classic computers and arcade machine games. A 68060 board with USB and other features is in development and running.
C-One needs a "Minimig" module to act as an ECS Amiga and can even use a real 2.5" hard drive. However development is dead, some of the boards are buggy and it has been superceded by the Chameleon64. I have one of these gathering dust.
Chameleon64 recently got a "Minimig" ECS core with a 68020 processor. I haven't had a chance to load the core onto my cartridge and test it yet, but others have it working with a hard file and it should outperform the original Minimig v1.1 boards and have extra RAM. You will need to plug it into a real C64 to have joystick ports but I've seen mutterings about the possibility of an adapter to provide these in "standalone" mode.
Multi-Classic-Computer: I've seen pictures of it and adverts for it, but I have no idea if it even exists.
The Natami should be an advanced version of the basic FPGA Arcade with the most of the features of the FPGA expansion board included along with some other goodies. It looks to be an advancement of the classic A1200/A4000 chipset.
As I see it, we have choices for everyone available:
Minimig v1.1: Cheap ECS/68000 board for classic A500 gaming.
Chameleon: An advanced C64 for power users with the bonus of a ECS/68020 Amiga included.
FPGA Arcade: An AGA/68020 A1200 replacement with a 68060 expansion card option to make it an A4000 replacement. Has the ability to load other cores and reproduce classic arcade machines.
Natami: The Amiga 5000!
Exciting stuff!!!
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Chameleon: An advanced C64 for power users with the bonus of a ECS/68020 Amiga included.
FPGA Arcade: An AGA/68020 A1200 replacement with a 68060 expansion card option to make it an A4000 replacement. Has the ability to load other cores and reproduce classic arcade machines.
Natami: The Amiga 5000!
I am going to be soooo broke when this is done... (the 3 things i want the most and Darrin got 2 of them.... hate you.. :p lol :D)
Oh well just as long as the wife doesn't find out all is good!!!!
We never had it so good.. A very long time coming.
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Minimig AGA and FPGA Arcade are the same thing. I have one of the last beta boards and MikeJ is off to China this week to run off a batch of "gold" boards for general sale. It will also run other cores to give you other classic computers and arcade machine games. A 68060 board with USB and other features is in development and running.
The Natami should be an advanced version of the basic FPGA Arcade with the most of the features of the FPGA expansion board included along with some other goodies. It looks to be an advancement of the classic A1200/A4000 chipset.
The FPGAArcade (Replay board) Amiga codebase has diverged significantly from the Minimig code - and will continue to do so as I am re-writing all of it to improve area and timing at the moment. It also has different video / audio / memory interfaces.
It has been tested with 1920x1080P (HDMI) and 24 bit 192KHz audio. The 68020 core is also new of course.
The Natami is a very interesting project, but I do not see a need for legacy interfaces like floppy and IDE. A large SDHC card on the Replay board will support 4 virtual floppy drives and two 4G hard disks - and the transfer rate probably out performs old IDE drives.
I may do a floppy interface to play with my Atari disk controller, but I really can't be bothered to dig out a drive. I would rather fix the remaining disk capture problems. I have been rescuing a lot of my old code from amiga/atari floppies recently and some of the disks are not readable after 20 odd years.
My aim is to get the cost down and end up with a board which can actually be produced. That's why it's so small (6 layer PCBs are expensive) and the features on the base board have been chosen for as wide an audience as possible while keeping the components used to a minimum. A lot of techniques used for "real products" have been used here, such as stress testing the memory to test the operating margins and high-speed measurements using 20Gig test kit to measure eye-patterns on DVI, clocks etc. Also, the entire board is impedance controlled to get good signal integrity.
The other big difference between the Natami and Replay board is the use of the ARM controller. Not only does this do the bridge to the SD card file system, it also acts as a boot and configuration controller - so you can choose your platform and options using the on-screen display.
You don't need to "reflash" like the Natami. You can take the SD card out, replace the core binary file, stick it in again and do a soft-restart of the system.
You can change from an Amiga to an Atari to a Spectrum without powering down.
Anyhow, I've got to finish the DRC (design rule checks) for the boards...
Cheers,
MikeJ
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I'll be in London Sunday, Swansea on Monday and Cardiff Tuesday. I'll try and pop in and visit AmigaKit...
Swansea and Cardiff eh :)
Not comig over for the play-offs are you :)
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You can take the SD card out, replace the core binary file, stick it in again and do a soft-restart of the system.
Sold.
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Has anyone mentioned in this thread about laptop option? I think we have but I'll do it again. It's pretty skinny, it could maybe become mobile Amiga. With the right kinda of kit. Would have keyboard, screen, a place to mount it down, power supply, battery solution etc.
Oh, people are all over that apparently
http://www.mini-itx.com/2007/01/19/the-itx-laptop
We could do better though.
Yes, it has been asked before. MikeJ said something similar to what I have written below.
Some additional work would need to be done to manage the laptop battery/charging and integrate it into the OS, or make some kind of BIOS with the battery management built-in to it that would take care of energy management & charging of the battery in the background without effecting any of the different computer, or arcade systems emulated.
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The FPGAArcade (Replay board) Amiga codebase has diverged significantly from the Minimig code - and will continue to do so as I am re-writing all of it to improve area and timing at the moment. It also has different video / audio / memory interfaces.
It has been tested with 1920x1080P (HDMI) and 24 bit 192KHz audio. The 68020 core is also new of course.
The Natami is a very interesting project, but I do not see a need for legacy interfaces like floppy and IDE. A large SDHC card on the Replay board will support 4 virtual floppy drives and two 4G hard disks - and the transfer rate probably out performs old IDE drives.
I may do a floppy interface to play with my Atari disk controller, but I really can't be bothered to dig out a drive. I would rather fix the remaining disk capture problems. I have been rescuing a lot of my old code from amiga/atari floppies recently and some of the disks are not readable after 20 odd years.
My aim is to get the cost down and end up with a board which can actually be produced. That's why it's so small (6 layer PCBs are expensive) and the features on the base board have been chosen for as wide an audience as possible while keeping the components used to a minimum. A lot of techniques used for "real products" have been used here, such as stress testing the memory to test the operating margins and high-speed measurements using 20Gig test kit to measure eye-patterns on DVI, clocks etc. Also, the entire board is impedance controlled to get good signal integrity.
The other big difference between the Natami and Replay board is the use of the ARM controller. Not only does this do the bridge to the SD card file system, it also acts as a boot and configuration controller - so you can choose your platform and options using the on-screen display.
You don't need to "reflash" like the Natami. You can take the SD card out, replace the core binary file, stick it in again and do a soft-restart of the system.
You can change from an Amiga to an Atari to a Spectrum without powering down.
Anyhow, I've got to finish the DRC (design rule checks) for the boards...
Cheers,
MikeJ
Thanks for the clarification Mike.
I think the big "pull" of the FPGA Arcade will be the simple way it just flips from being one machine to another which will also widen the market for it as it won't just be an Amiga.
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Can they play ocs, aga, rtg games?
What versions of ths AmigaoOS each can handle ?
How do you get floppies or .adf onto these things
How do you build a hard drive partition?
How do you get the Kickstart on these things?
Can one use these on a network?
Which kickstarts can etch of these things use. 1.3, 3.1, (a native 3.9 kickstart (not softbooted))?
What ports do each of these things have. joystick, serial, floppy, s-video, VGA, hdmi, (example natami looks very complete)
what is the chipset (ie OCS/ECS, AGA, and RTG)
Which 680x0
Can one use whdload?
What is the Amiga experience? somewhat subjective (aka WinUAE is very cool, but isn't quite the experience as running an OCS game on an A500 or A2000)
I am assuming this is the non-complete list of the different FPGA amigas
Minimig comes with HDL sources.
FPGA Replay, sources predicted to be released at a later time.
NatAmi, closed in all ways.
Any version of Kickstart and AmigaOS you can get you hands on will run asfaik.
Floppies are saved as .ADF onto a SD-flashcard. And show up as ordinary DFx: Swapping discs is done with an OSD menu.
Harddrives use a imagefile just like a software based emulator. But on SD-card.
Partitioning ought to be possible the usual way from the Amiga enviroment.
Kickstart is saved as a file on the SD-card and loaded at boot into a part of the DRAM memory which is then "write protected" because the FPGA controls all the signaling. Which also why the same memory chip can show up as chip or fast ram, or even ram disc depending on configuration.
The FPGA Replay have the option of networking with the daughterboard for the MC68060. Personally I would preferred the transceiver chip on the mainboard ;)
FPGA Replay (http://fpgaarcade.com/common/replay_overview.jpg) has 2x joystick, PS/2 mouse+keyboard, S-Video, Composite-video, DVI analog and digital, SD-slot, DC +5V input via circular-DC-plug or Molex-4p or 2-pin 100 mil pinhead, I/O expansion slot, PCB pads for misc I/O, RS232.
There's USB and Jtag as well. But I suspect they are only for debugging, at least the last one ;). Can you clarify MikeJ?
The CPU is an 68020 with enchantments that will outdo even A4000 asfair. Especially a 256 byte instruction and data cache does the trick.
WHDLoad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHDLoad) should work. But someone else maybe knows more?
As an FPGA implements the hosted computer on circuit level it will be as responsive. The screen output might pose a challenge, especially if refresh rates differs with an non-integer quote. The sound also pose a challenge as the amiga-side sample rate may differ in the same way with an non-integer number, and the volyme control is also (misused) as extra D/A bits. The analog RC-filter that dims the power-led on the original amiga may be implemented as an digital filter which may differ in characteristics. In the same way SID 6581 is hard to reproduce.
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Swansea and Cardiff eh :)
Not comig over for the play-offs are you :)
Yes. I've got tickets to both home matches. :D
Are you going?
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Nah, even though I am a Cardiff boy Married to a Swansea girl, my Father is from London so i have always been a goooner
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Nah, even though I am a Cardiff boy Married to a Swansea girl, my Father is from London so i have always been a goooner
LOL. Well I'm looking forward to the matches although if one or both teams makes it to the final then I won't be able to stay for it. I wonder what the chances of today's first leg against Notting Forest are of being shown on American TV?
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WHDLoad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHDLoad) should work. But someone else maybe knows more?
I can confirm that it does indeed work as I use it on my Minimig v1.1. I've built a hard file to test it on the FPGA Arcade, but haven't had a chance yet. There is no reason why it shouldn't work.
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LOL. Well I'm looking forward to the matches although if one or both teams makes it to the final then I won't be able to stay for it. I wonder what the chances of today's first leg against Notting Forest are of being shown on American TV?
Not very likely. Though I am sure that you can find it on the net somewere.
My predictions for the first two rounds
Nott forrest 0 - Swansea 2
Reading 2 - Cardiff 1
Not sure about the second legs yet
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Not very likely. Though I am sure that you can find it on the net somewere.
My predictions for the first two rounds
Nott forrest 0 - Swansea 2
Reading 2 - Cardiff 1
Not sure about the second legs yet
Fox Soccer Plus has shown quite a few Cardiff and Swansea games throught the year "Live from Cardiff in England!" so there is hope.
Yep, I feel the Swans should win today too. Cardiff need to find their form again fast.
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My predictions for the first two rounds
Nott forrest 0 - Swansea 2
I'm going to this tonight. It's going to be tough but hopefully Forest can give you a bashing.
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Yes, it has been asked before. MikeJ said something similar to what I have written below.
Some additional work would need to be done to manage the laptop battery/charging and integrate it into the OS, or make some kind of BIOS with the battery management built-in to it that would take care of energy management & charging of the battery in the background without effecting any of the different computer, or arcade systems emulated.
The best way to handle a battery would be to make it a self contained unit. More like a UPS than a laptop battery. The only information that the battery really needs to give the system is it's charge level and whether it is currently plugged in or not.
I started to type how to accomplish this really cheaply, but thought... I can't be the first to think of it. So, quick google, and... http://www.bixnet.com/5v7libapa.html.
There is at least one battery system already made and ready to go as a laptop battery solution for MiniMig/FPGAArcade/Etc....
Just leave a space in your case for this battery and your set to go. The only thing better that could be achieved by the community building their own solution would be to get data out of the unit via a low speed serial so that the computer could display remaining power and do a safe shutdown. I would not be surprised if there were a similar device already on the market that had a port to send the charge data.
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Fox Soccer Plus has shown quite a few Cardiff and Swansea games throught the year "Live from Cardiff in England!" so there is hope.
Yep, I feel the Swans should win today too. Cardiff need to find their form again fast.
Sorry everyone for this massive ot
Is that with british commentary or american, I cant imagine american on football
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What about http://www.kryoflux.com/ for a USB floppy controller or have I misunderstood it's application?
B.
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As I understand it, Kryoflux isn't interactive.
It's for creating images (or writing images to floppy).
desiv
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ouch taylor off in first 53seconds
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The Kryoflux would be a great floppy controller as long as it was paired with an on board processor that could emulate the actual drive after the Kyroflux read the entire disk into it's onboard memory.
You would want it too look like this:
Computer --> ARM(floppy emlator) --> cache memory --> Kryoflux
Then you could read any media on any system. You would have a single target environment for writing the computer interfaces leading to better code re-use as well as better cross platform compatibility of the disks. If a secondary interface to the ARM could be added that would let the Kryoflux immages to be read and written to the cache memory, it would be even better, as then you could choose whether the image ever touches the physical disk again or not.
Other than possible cost, the only drawback would be that since the entire disk image would be cached, there would be a wait before a physical disk that has been updated gets written to the physical disk.
With a little forethought, there could also be an interface written into the Arm code to mount not only the disk image in the cache memory, but also the cache as a drive itself. This way, the images could easily be loaded and unloaded from within the emulated environment itself.
While an overlay menu for mounting disks would be cool, and is necessary for games that take over the system as well as single tasking systems, for OS level stuff on multi-tasking systems, being able to mount the floppies in the actual floppy drive would be even cooler.
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so could i use my usb floppy drive with the daughterboard then and use real floppys on fpga replay
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I'm pessimistic about using an CPU to do the raw I/O bitbanging as there are some really hard realtime requirements!
I hope everyone is aware that the standard "USB-floppy" accessories are useless for anything except IBM standard MFM 720- and 1440 kB floppies.
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What aspect are you saying has the hard realtime I/O that would prevent a CPU from being used as a Floppy emulator? I would think the the existing floppy emulators that are out there would be pretty good evidence that it would work....
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Or that the modulation is tolerant to the glitches provided there's no media errors that push the limitations :P
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I still don't understand what part you are saying would not work. Are you saying that the Kryoflux does not work? Are you saying that a floppy emulator would not work? Or are you saying that the file the Kryoflux produces could not be successfully transferred to a floppy emulator?
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Sorry everyone for this massive ot
Is that with british commentary or american, I cant imagine american on football
British. :-)
Whew! That was close! 93 minutes with 10 men and still had 48% of the ball. Forest must be kicking themselves.
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so could i use my usb floppy drive with the daughterboard then and use real floppys on fpga replay
You should be able to use PC Formatted 1.44MB disks just like I do with my A4000+Deneb+USB floppy drive.
Trust me, you'll quickly convert any Amiga disks to ADF format and never want to use an Amiga floppy again. Backing up your floppies just means a quick copy & paste into another directory.
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Thank you all for the clarification about these FPGA amigas.
I definitely want either the FPGA Replay or the Natami.
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I'm going to this tonight. It's going to be tough but hopefully Forest can give you a bashing.
Perhaps if we get THREE players sent off after 1 minute. :D ;)
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A very exciting project! I haven't had a chance to read the planned specs much, Is it strictly for AGA games or will it be backward compatibe for KS 1.3 OCS/ECS games like the Minimig?
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I suppose it will be like a real AGA Amiga in that some OCS/ECS games will have to be patched to run properly, or that you'd have to set up ECS compatibility in the early startup menu. As a whdload user, I don't mind either way.
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With FPGA it's possible to load any hardware combination you can imagine.
The only thing this FPGA thing lacks is an Zorro bus interface.
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With FPGA it's possible to load any hardware combination you can imagine.
The only thing this FPGA thing lacks is an Zorro bus interface.
The core options, such as AGA enable are set up with the on screen menu. They can actually be switched live (at the moment) but this may make the system fall over. I guess I should force some options to only become active on a restart.
Why do you want a Zorro bus? There are a huge amount of pins to the expansion connector, so I could implement a Zorro bus if needed, and a daughter board bridge. What would you connect though?
Cheers,
MikeJ
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I was thinking on say unusual video grabbers etc.. that could need this. I don't think it's worthwhile atm to persue Zorro. But I hope all I/O that would be needed is available at the expansion slot?
Btw, how is XC3S1200 supply?, seems Xilinx is going for Spartan-6 for the "low-end" FPGAs.
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What would be interesting is if the expansion slot could dedicate a pin or two to a low speed serial connection that could query anything plugged in to determine what kind of expansion device was connected. That way, any expansion devices in the future, like a Zorro slot, could just include the cheapest pic they could get their hands on to respond when the FPGAArcade queries the board, and everything could auto configure.
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With FPGA it's possible to load any hardware combination you can imagine.
The only thing this FPGA thing lacks is an Zorro bus interface.
A Zorro bus would be a complete waste. Nobody is producing any Zorro hardware and why would you want to connect a 20 yr old Zorro device to this system when you have several other interfaces that are modern and more efficient?
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A Zorro bus would be a complete waste. Nobody is producing any Zorro hardware and why would you want to connect a 20 yr old Zorro device to this system when you have several other interfaces that are modern and more efficient?
Educational purposes only I suppose.
http://opencores.org/project,zorro_to_wishbone_bridge
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USB to Zorro bus adapter anyone? :D
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I think there is an opportunity here for someone like Elbox to produce a Zorro/PCI daughterboard along the lines of the one I have in my towered A4000 for any "power users" who wish to expand the hell out of this board.
It might be something for them to think about.
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or wait for natami or fpga arcade 2
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While I could see a PCI slot on a future FPGAArcade, I would be shocked to see a Zorro slot. Remember, FPGAArcade is not an Amiga board. It is a Retro system board. Zorro would only have a use for those of us using it for Amiga.
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I was thinking on say unusual video grabbers etc.. that could need this. I don't think it's worthwhile atm to persue Zorro. But I hope all I/O that would be needed is available at the expansion slot?
Btw, how is XC3S1200 supply?, seems Xilinx is going for Spartan-6 for the "low-end" FPGAs.
There is no reason other people can't produce daughter cards - Jakub built his own from my specs. I have a proto-card as well which you can build your own circuits on. You'll get ethernet and usb on my daughter card.
It's a Spartan3e1600 actually. No problems with supply, I've got around 50 arriving next week. I can always get them in China as well. No EOL on these yet.
Spartan6 is very interesting but is quite a bit more expensive at the moment.
Once we've knocked out a few hundred of the current card it may be time to move on, next year I guess.
Cheers,
Mike
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"While I could see a PCI slot"
You can already do this with the expansion bus available.
A simple bus mastering PCI core is not hard (I've written one before), but again, not sure I see the point.
For next gen card I would use a Spartan6 and then you could wire up a few SerDes lanes to the expansion connector and have PCIexpress.
/Mike
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I don't see the need for a zorro slot either... A video slot for the Toaster might be slightly sensible. ;-) Or at least something in the "neat hack" category.
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Infact PCI-express might be worthwhile if the Spartan-6 rocketports can handle it nativly. The reason is that this could be done with very few signals or I/O slots. Which reduces cost.
These rocketports can also handle S-ATA nativly asfair.
Maybe I should say that the original Zorro comment was a little bit a joke. Ie the only thing missing .. (tm) ;)
The only hardware that may need physical connection are the ones that interface with outside world in areas that the built-in functions won't cover.
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@MikeJ
Can your computer take larger FPGAs if upgrading ever becomes an issue?
Will it solder on the same pads?
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A Zorro bus would be a complete waste. Nobody is producing any Zorro hardware and why would you want to connect a 20 yr old Zorro device to this system when you have several other interfaces that are modern and more efficient?
You do realize what community you're part of, right? "Modern" and "efficient" are practically swearwords for a lot of people here :lol:
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@trekiej, If you mean an FPGA with capacitity for more gates etc.. the answer is that it will require a new board spin as the BGA-solder balls underneath are really tightly packed and an adapter would be a real pain.
I know that Xilinx has a scheme where models with "more stuff" can be selected for the same package and pinout but the XC3S1600 is maxed out in this respect. The chip datasheet will give the answer in that aspect. A quick overview (http://china.xilinx.com/publications/prod_mktg/pn0010855.pdf) gives the same answer.
There's also the issue how huge FPGA you can have without having to pay 20 000 USD/year for the software that takes the HDL sources and makes a binary. This may have the price that a significant number of developers won't be able to contribute.
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It sounds like more gates equals new package.
I was curios if a package with more gates could be soldered in place of the existing at manufacture.
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It sounds like more gates equals new package.
I was curios if a package with more gates could be soldered in place of the existing at manufacture.
You might want to research BGA packaging before you repeat this again.
This component is soldered to the board.
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I give up :-D
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Spartan6 is very interesting but is quite a bit more expensive at the moment.
Now you mention spartan6. I stumbled on the Atlys (http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,836&Prod=ATLYS) dev board for that FPGA. Probably not all the features you want for all retro needs but I think still interesting.
I am thinking about buying one.
greets,
Staf.
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"Only" 349 USD ;) Weird they didn't exploit the S-ATA capability of the chip..
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@MikeJ
Can your computer take larger FPGAs if upgrading ever becomes an issue?
Will it solder on the same pads?
Unlikely. It would have to be the same model FPGA but a different variant. If mikeJ didn't use the biggest, fastest part (which he probably did) then maybe.
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Does Mike's board have enough gates to emulate a Sharp X68000?
And what about the '060 daughter board. Would that only work under Amiga emulation or could that be used for X68000 emulation as well?
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I think it would just need to modify a minimig core to do this since thats use the 68000 cpu
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Does Mike's board have enough gates to emulate a Sharp X68000?
Easily but someone would have to reverse engineer the hardware and write the HDL. I don't think that has been done for that system (yet).
And what about the '060 daughter board. Would that only work under Amiga emulation or could that be used for X68000 emulation as well?
Yes, but it depends if the X68000 ever had an 060? If the answer is no then there will be no compatible software libraries.
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wikipedia say last system was released in 1993 with a 68030 cpu
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That's probably a no then. I doubt you will be able to use the 68060.
But as there is no X68000 FPGA HDL code for the hardware. The point is a little mute.
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I hope fpgaarcade version 2 does have pci express then the Natami people who hate people mention anything that might be competion to them, will cry lol
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Imagine our fpga arcade 2 will be able to use the latest versions of AMD radeon or nvidia cards, while they be stuck with super natami aga or whatever they decide to call it lol.
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@trekiej, If you mean an FPGA with capacitity for more gates etc.. the answer is that it will require a new board spin as the BGA-solder balls underneath are really tightly packed and an adapter would be a real pain.
I know that Xilinx has a scheme where models with "more stuff" can be selected for the same package and pinout but the XC3S1600 is maxed out in this respect.
Is that really true? Xilinx's Spartan3e datasheet says the 1600 comes in these packages:
FG320/FGG320, FG400/FGG400, and FG484/FGG484.
http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds312.pdf
The Spartan6 datasheet says some are available as FG484/FGG484.
http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds160.pdf
I guess someone would need to compare exact pinout details, voltages, etc, but the same package is a starting point for hope. And if Mike uses the 484 one. No guarantees of course.
But really, lets see what FPGAarcade 2 will have someday
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Imagine our fpga arcade 2 will be able to use the latest versions of AMD radeon or nvidia cards, while they be stuck with super natami aga or whatever they decide to call it lol.
The Natami 1 should be able to use a gfx card out of the box because it has PCI :P. I doubt the first versions of the Natami texture mapper will be as powerful or full featured as gfx cards from the 90s. That doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. Advantages are smaller profile case, less electrical use, standard, integrated with SAGA (1 monitor output) and no gfx bus bottleneck. It can improve over time as needed. I would love to see any fpga solutions that support gfx cards though. I would also like to see standards that allow the same OS to run on these different fpga Amiga's. Please add at least ColdFire instructions and compatible RTG "chunky" gfx. I might buy both if they both look good. A little competition will be good for the consumer ;).
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What graphics card with enough 3D procession performance, reasonable price, lowest PCI-express lane count, open documentation fits the bill?
More PCI-express lanes = more PCB layout mess and signal integrity issues.
And without documentation = no drivers..
There's another combination few have mentioned. Adding more FPGA:s on a daugtherboard.
Oh btw, FPGA Replay first version big batch hasn't shipped yet.. while we fantasize about the next one :P
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Has anyone tried to implement CPS1 or CPS2 in an FPGA?
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If it makes development time and production costs more maybe PCI-Express should be left out.
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@digiflip: seems you are really a little over the top here.
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@digiflip, It's either for an add-on board or the next version. Anyway PCI-e x1 should be doable with a minimal effort (pcb space and routing). Thoe PCI-e x1 graphics cards may be hard to find.. ;)
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maybe il get well when sony turns on psx network
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PCI-e would be great, but a single lane connection would be a severe bottleneck (so would a PCI connection).
However, a PCI-e X1 or X4 connection could be useful for expansion.
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PCI-e would be great, but a single lane connection would be a severe bottleneck (so would a PCI connection).
However, a PCI-e X1 or X4 connection could be useful for expansion.
Actually, I think the fpga CPU (and FPU) is going to be the bottleneck even with PCI. Note that a FPU would almost be a requirement with gfx boards. More PCI gfx card's hardware is documented and Amiga supported as well. The most popular would be the Radeon series and Voodoo 3+. I think I could get the Voodoo3+ Warp3D driver to work if there was a 2D CyberGFX/P96 driver available and a FPU. There is no 68k Warp3D driver for Radeon cards at this time. The other route would be to go through AROS which has support for some Nvidia cards but is less Amiga backward compatible.
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PCI is nice.. until you going to route signals for it. It needs a lot of signals. That's the benefit of PCI-express. Few wires.. done!
It's like P-ATA vs S-ATA.
Another hack is to serialize the Zorro bus ;)
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I can't see a serialized Zorro bus being very useful. I do see the points made in favor of PCI. Radeon 9200 and Voodoo3 cards would work well in that type of slot (and there are drivers for them).
I can't think of any PCI-e cards that have legacy drivers (with good reason as there are no legacy systems with PCI-e expansion).
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The point of serializing any parallell expansion bus is that you can interconnect it with very few wires. As I/O ports on the FPGA are scarce. It also makes it possible to ease some signal skew issues.
A few CPLD or less fancy FPGAs can then parallise the bus off-board. And ZIII is asynchronous so it's less time constrained than other buses.
But for now the only thing I acutally miss on the board is an Ethernet PHY.
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I do see your point, but with a totally non-standard bus we'd have to create the cards that use it ourselves.
That's why, after considering it, I opted to agree with the post on PCI expansion. The cards are available and the drivers already exist.
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I don't see what use a computer expansion bus would be for a device primarily made for reproducing arcade games.
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I don't see what use a computer expansion bus would be for a device primarily made for reproducing arcade games.
That may have been Mike's initial intention, but if your emulating an Amiga an expansion bus would be very useful.
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Kedawa, Some people might want to do other things than gaming.. :P
Iggy, I think you miss the technical point. To preserve main FPGA I/O the bus is serialized much like how boundary scan works. Then an external CPLD or FPGA deserialize that to an old-style Zorro II/III bus connector(s).
FPGA-Arcade <-- LVDS serial etc.. --> FPGA <-> Zorro parallell connector
Makes it possible to use any standard already made Zorro device right of the shelf. And it can maybe be applied to the existing FPGA Replay.
The alternative:
FPGA <- Lots of wires -> Zorro connector
Works too but uses up loads of I/O and need lot's of PCB routing to work.
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I just don't want this thing to cost twice as much as it needs to just so half a dozen people can connect some specialized hardware.
The Natami project seems more suited to that type of expansion.
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kedawa, That's why just routing 1-4 I/O ports (out of ~200) to a plain socket will be dirt cheap. Any one wishing to connect an Zorro bus just plugs in an extra slave-FPGA that deserialize.
Adding plain ethernet to the current board would have added $3 for PHY chip and maybe the same amount for the magnetics and plug. The benefit is that you don't have to use sneakernet.
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OK, I'm definitely with you on the Ethernet PHY, but I'm still not convinced about the utility of Zorro bus expansion. I just can't think of any Zorro bus cards that I'd want to use.
Now PCI expansion cards, video, USB, wireless networking, etc.
Even with the added complication, I can see more use for this.
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Is there anything you can plug into a zorro slot that couldn't just be emulated by the FPGA directly?
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kedawa, Audio / Video digitizing, networking, most things that interact with the outside world.
Iggy, There is a possibility to (mis)use the existing "user I/O" pads for things like serialized pci/zorro bus or ethernet. The Spartan-3E can pump 333 Mbit/s per I/O asfair. Provided proper impedance matching, differential mode etc.. is used.
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Ah, okay. So it's useful for stuff that can't be handled by the I/O ports on the FPGA itself.
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I think you're all going a little bonkers. This is FPGAArcade. It is supposed to be a cheap, mass produced hardware emulation platform. Not a replacement PC. Surely if you want addon cards then get a PC/Mac?
Just because a new hardware platform came out the software devs are not going to come back to the Amiga platform. No software devs means no new drivers. No new drivers means no way of using new hardware.
FPGAArcade is surely destined to be a fun hardware emulation platform. Not meant as a replacement computer.
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That's probably a no then. I doubt you will be able to use the 68060.
But as there is no X68000 FPGA HDL code for the hardware. The point is a little mute.
Did you mean moot :)
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I think you're all going a little bonkers. This is FPGAArcade. It is supposed to be a cheap, mass produced hardware emulation platform. Not a replacement PC. Surely if you want addon cards then get a PC/Mac?
Just because a new hardware platform came out the software devs are not going to come back to the Amiga platform. No software devs means no new drivers. No new drivers means no way of using new hardware.
FPGAArcade is surely destined to be a fun hardware emulation platform. Not meant as a replacement computer.
With sufficient expandability it will make a suitable mid-level replacement for classic Amiga hardware for some people.
For my part it won't replace my Linux box, but I'm certainly not intending to relegate it to playing games.
As for drivers, with the 68k AROS port coming along, I can pretty much guarantee that at least a few AROS devs will pick up an FPGA Arcade. If there are any *interesting* cards that aren't too hard to write drivers for, I don't think drivers will be an issue. Given that Natami will have these options as well, there might also be some scope for shared efforts on the driver front.
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I suppose it will be like a real AGA Amiga in that some OCS/ECS games will have to be patched to run properly, or that you'd have to set up ECS compatibility in the early startup menu. As a whdload user, I don't mind either way.
Yes that makes sense, I would prefer a menu selection but I would be happy with whdload too.
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I didn't realize there is a Magnavox Odyssey FPGA in the works too. I use to have one, very cool! I might even buy the FPGA Spartan 3 VGA starter kit. it would be fun for learning.
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mikej/yaqube, That USB port on the ARM. Is it possible to access it from the virtual Amiga in any constructive way?
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FPGAArcade is surely destined to be a fun hardware emulation platform. Not meant as a replacement computer.
And I'm sure Mike might be suprised that we bonkers Amiga weirdos want to treat it as a full computer replacement. But as soon as we became able to do Amiga stuff with it, desire began to build to have a more and more advanced Amiga from it.
Natami may be a more appropriate choice for a computer replacement, as it has a normal PCI slot. Perhaps FPGA Arcade 2 will embrace the idea and take on more of a computer replacement form. Though I think it'd me cool to put a (or some) big FPGA(s) on some standard computer module and have whatever shape carrier for that standard we want, including a full-out ATX. :)
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Yeah I think Fpga Arcade 2 will be something to look forward to. No offence to Natami but they are elitest.
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Yeah I think Fpga Arcade 2 will be something to look forward to. No offence to Natami but they are elitest.
I'd second that. And the Natami is a closed project.
While I look forward to seeing what they introduce, I'm still more likely to support Mike's boards.
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Elitist? I like them both - I am gonna buy one of each :P
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Which computer will be the easiest to revive when the group behind it dissapears. The one with code and schematic or the one without? :P
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yeah they are elitist every time I mention fpga replay on there forums or anything they feel is competition to themselves they delete the posts
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No offence to Natami but they are elitest.
Thought that was BBC micro owners :-P
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yeah they are elitist every time I mention fpga replay on there forums or anything they feel is competition to themselves they delete the posts
I've not deleted any of your posts, I'll raise it in the team forum and find out who has.
I've always said that I want one of Mikes boards and I just wish that these things were easier to finish and have manufactured so that I could get one!
Andy
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yeah they are elitist every time I mention fpga replay on there forums or anything they feel is competition to themselves they delete the posts
Actually, if you are who I think you are, your posts were trollish.
The Natami team members have spoken with MikeJ quite amicably. When I posted about Arcade Replay being "done", it was well recieved there and Gunnar even mentioned in retrospect the the projects had some overlap and could have collaborated more but from the original intentions he didn't see much.
I think this thread best describes NATAMI's "openness" best:
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=38307
Much like MikeJ's board is OT there, so is NATAMI here. I just dislike misinformation.
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@digiflip
If you indeed are the "Matthew Simon William La" posting on the Natami forums, (which I am almost sure of because you write in the same very recognisable manner), then your posts were not deleted because of any "elitism" but because they were pure trolling/FUD-spreading. And as everyone can see, you continue posting the same kind of crap both here and on the Natami forums. Just use some common sense, act like an adult, and you will not get moderated.
We have nothing against the FPGAArcade, which seems to turn out to be an awesome system, and several Natami Team members do want to get one and have publicly stated they do so.
I myself am very keen on hooking one up to the JAMMA connector of my cabinet. That does not mean that I'd like to troll around on forums of other multi-system-replicating FPGA systems.
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@Digiflip,
Well I posted, Bartek pointed out the discussion and, as Forcie has said, it was basically for posting lots of stuff just like the above. Not in any helpful or constructive way but basically as a put down to the Natami team.
This is now seriously off topic. That topic being MikeJ's FPGAArcade board.
I think that if you want to vent about Natami then there's plenty of threads full of people with negative opinions about it so that's the last I'll reply regarding it in this one :)
Andy
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PS: sorry for derailing your thread MikeJ.
Now hurry up and get everyone your boards!!! :D
Andy
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Perhaps FPGA Arcade 2 will embrace the idea and take on more of a computer replacement form.
I do hope not. It should be a cost reduction. The price is it's biggest hurdle and once the first wave has paid for the initial NRE then a cost reduction (not necessarily feature reduction) should be next.
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USB is expansion enough as far as I'm concerned.
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Me Too! I feel like a kid in a toy store again.
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That... I WANT THAT!
Me Too! I feel like a kid in a toy store again.
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oops! Didn't mean to posrt that twice!
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Status update:
I'm in China now. The production B02 database has been sent to manufacture today. I will source the remaining couple of components in the next week to build the next batch. I've also getting the ATX power adapter board made and some more patch daughterboards for attaching other stuff.
There are a number of developers working on a range of platforms - I'm working on a ZX spectrum port at the moment.
I've had some very nice communication with the NatAmi team and I wish them well.
I'll post some more pics ASAP.
Best,
Mike
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Status update:
I'm in China now. The production B02 database has been sent to manufacture today. I will source the remaining couple of components in the next week to build the next batch. I've also getting the ATX power adapter board made and some more patch daughterboards for attaching other stuff.
There are a number of developers working on a range of platforms - I'm working on a ZX spectrum port at the moment.
I've had some very nice communication with the NatAmi team and I wish them well.
I'll post some more pics ASAP.
Best,
Mike
Can't wait. Pics, yes!
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I've had some very nice communication with the NatAmi team and I wish them well.
This is great to hear.
The products don't directly compete and only help make the community better.
I can't wait until I can get my grubby little hands on both of them.
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@mikej how much would it cost to implement display port in a future revision of FPGA arcade? ie there are adapters to hdmi with sound for that and vga I think.
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@digiflip, Very likely an additional transceiver chip and PCB impedance matching would have to be done to get DisplayPort. But more people are likely to have an DV I, HDMI or VGA monitor around than a DisplayPort one. KISS in other words.
Anyway it's not a rocket science to convert a DVI signal into DisplayPort externally. Some companies (http://estore.circuitassembly.com/forums/mini-displayport/17-official-dvi-male-mini-displayport-female-adapter-thread.html) even sell such adapters (http://www.amazon.com/Gefen-Mini-DisplayPort-Converter-EXT-DVI-2-MDP/dp/B002QPWBEK).
Speaking of this. Is it possible to sneak audio bits into the existing CH7301C-TF-QFP64 and use an DVI-2-HDMI cable and make the TV-set get audio that way without getting into the licensensing hot zone?
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yeah but still dont have sound in a dvi socket or can you put sound in the dvi port?
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The HDMI specification (http://hackipedia.org/Hardware/video/connectors/HDMI/HDMI%20Specification%20v1.3a.pdf.raw-conversion.utf-8.txt) says audio is delivered in packets. And wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI) says it uses 8b/10b encoding for video and 4b/10b for data. And the datasheet for 7301 (http://www.chrontel.com/pdf/7301ds.pdf) mentions no control or bypass for the line coding. So it means that chip can't handle it. Unless you with some mathematical wizardy can express 4b/10b data through an 8b/10b encoder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8b/10b_encoding).
Other than that either a replacement or external DVI decoder chip chained with an HDMI encoder chip together with the digital audio stream would have to be used to solve this.
A feature solution is to use a rocket port of an Spartan-6 to drive the "DVI" port. A passive cable and som code changes can then turn it into an HDMI source. Without the legal liability I hope.
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so it not has simple has replacing one video chip for another
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If you create a PCB that can do HDMI officially and sell then you risk getting slapped with a 10 000 USD/year fine + 0,04 USD/port. So a solution that can get around that will do. Also keep in mind that the bit timings on these serial links are really tightly packed with PLL locked clocks in parallel. This makes it only possible for FPGAs that have really fast I/O at Gbit/s speed and PLL to go with it. Which limits choices severely.
The chip (http://fpgaarcade.com/common/replay_overview.jpg) package (http://www.ictradenet.com/models_pic/505-64-LQFP.jpg) 64-LQFP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LQFP) for the 3,3V LVTTL to DVI chip seems handleable. You could try to replace the existing chip with another chip soldered on an adapter PCB. Just watch for wire inductance between the board and the impedance matching, etc.. And don't forget those decoupling capacitances.
A feature solution could be to put the while video converter (LVTTL-DVI) on a little expansion board of it's own. That way it could be inofficially upgraded without anyone being able to claim any responsibility for the base-board PCB creator.
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I'm away on a business trip at the moment so I don't have access to the two monitors to check and they'll be "discontinued" models by now anyway... ... ah, found it:
Viewsonic VA2223wm 21.5in 1920x1080 5ms DVI SPK
I bought it from Tiger Direct and they very good about putting the monitor specs on their site.
Here's a list of all of their current Viewsonic monitors:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/guidedSearch.asp?CatId=12&sel=Mfr;Mfr_903
Their cheapest is this one for $99 that does 50Hz with a single VGA input:
Viewsonic VA1931WA-LED 19" Widescreen LED Monitor - 720p, 1366x768, 10000000:1 Dynamic, 5ms, VGA, Anti-glare
Then there is this one (similar to what I bought) with VGA and DVI for $159:
Viewsonic VA2231wm 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 1080p, 1920x1080, 16:9, 1000:1, 100000:1 Dynamic, 5ms, VGA, DVI, Integrated Speakers
One word of warning, they do list 2 "square screen" models and they show 56Hz-75Hz so you'll want to avoid them for PAL modes unless you have an Indivision.
Darrin, how about this Asus monitor?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236112
Specs say Hv from 50Hz upwards on digital and analogue inputs.
You said your monitor only has D-Sub (analogue). Will you have to plug a DVI-VGA adapter in? I might need to do same as I need HDMI for 360, DVI for PC.
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I'm gonna pick up a Samsung HDTV "monitor" of 23" and be a happy-camper with that one as it will have inputs for all my retro stuff, plus that it is 50Hz compatible. And it costs next to nothing...oh, and it has a tuner aswell -- which I ironically won't use ;-)
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I recently got an lg 22" full hd for 140 gb pounds from amazon warehouse stock( i think it was unused sent back stock)
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I'm gonna pick up a Samsung HDTV "monitor" of 23" and be a happy-camper with that one as it will have inputs for all my retro stuff, plus that it is 50Hz compatible. And it costs next to nothing...oh, and it has a tuner aswell -- which I ironically won't use ;-)
Which? Every Samsung I've seen is 56-83hz...
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I'm gonna pick up a Samsung HDTV "monitor" of 23" and be a happy-camper with that one as it will have inputs for all my retro stuff, plus that it is 50Hz compatible. And it costs next to nothing...oh, and it has a tuner aswell -- which I ironically won't use ;-)
What model are you talking about? P2370HD or similar models? The specs say that it doesn't support 50hz through VGA/DVI, but only through the video-inputs (Component, HDMI, SCART).
Sometimes they will still do 50hz even if the specs say something like 56-82hz, but I'll have to wait till I get my MCC-216 to test it.
If not, I am thinking about a VGA-to-Component transcoder (without scaling and additional video processing) to fix that.
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What model are you talking about? P2370HD or similar models? The specs say that it doesn't support 50hz through VGA/DVI, but only through the video-inputs (Component, HDMI, SCART).
Sometimes they will still do 50hz even if the specs say something like 56-82hz, but I'll have to wait till I get my MCC-216 to test it.
If not, I am thinking about a VGA-to-Component transcoder (without scaling and additional video processing) to fix that.
I'm looking at this one. Anyone able to confirm which inputs I could successfully use with Replay?
http://lcd24-7.info/Monitor/Samsung/SyncMaster-P2470HD/Default.aspx
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well I think it comes with DVI can use DVI to VGA adapter and DVI to HDMI adapter.
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Im going to use my LG M227WDP for my fpga I think
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I'm looking at this one. Anyone able to confirm which inputs I could successfully use with Replay?
http://lcd24-7.info/Monitor/Samsung/SyncMaster-P2470HD/Default.aspx
I have the P2370HD which has a similar panel and identical specs (just 1" smaller). I could test 800x600@50hz and 1920x1080@50hz over VGA and it worked fine.
Other resolutions such as 576p (720x576@50hz) were not accepted by the GFX-driver when using Powerstrip, so I couldn't test them.
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Update: I used another computer with a GFX-card that was better supported by Powerstrip. 576p (720x576@50hz) was detected as 640x480@60hz and the lower part of the screen was cut off.
Therefore, I cannot recommend the P2x370HD-range if you intend to display 50hz-modes via VGA/DVI. Using the Component or HDMI input, 576p should work correctly. I will test a VGA to Component transcoder to test this.
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Could the replay output at 100Hz instead, with each frame plopped out twice?
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kedawa, Proberbly if you are prepared to sacrifice a significant part of the video memory pipeline capacity.
Or ask someone to make a DVI-2-memory buffer-2-DVI circuit externally ;)
(could output anything like SCART/CVBS..)
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Hmm..a LED/LCD TV which does not accept 50Hz on its VGA / DVI inputs ? Now that is very strange. I am not saying it is wong, but it just sounds weird :)
Ayway, I am gonna go back to the store if the monitor does not work. Or better, I will bring the replay board (now in it's rather fancy mini itx black cabinet) to the store and just plug and test until I find one funky screen that handles my digital demands :)
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Hmm..a LED/LCD TV which does not accept 50Hz on its VGA / DVI inputs ? Now that is very strange. I am not saying it is wong, but it just sounds weird :)
Ayway, I am gonna go back to the store if the monitor does not work. Or better, I will bring the replay board (now in it's rather fancy mini itx black cabinet) to the store and just plug and test until I find one funky screen that handles my digital demands :)
Can we see some pictures of your Replay in the new case?
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i think its an american thing they lock out pal modes lol
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i think its an american thing they lock out pal modes lol
A Korean manufacturer (Samsung) locking out PAL modes for the European market? Naa... it's just that 640x480@50hz or 720x576@50hz is not a VGA standard.
But... 720x576@50hz (576p) is a Video standard, that's why basically all LCDs accept it via Component or HDMI (provided they have inputs for that).
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I'm just got back home.
I have the new boards and almost all the components to get them built :)
/MikeJ
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Will you be emailing people who want to purchase on your unofficial pre-order list?
or do we need to pm you or something?
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Yes, I'd like to get the board, too, and I don't know where/who to ask :D
Will ir be mass-procuded soon or should I place an order to be sure?
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YOU have to email mikej to get on list not sure whos on list i think the next batch is between 40 and 50 not sure exact figure.
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Can we see some pictures of your Replay in the new case?
Sure. Let me snap some pics of it when I get back to work on monday.
Espen
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I'm just got back home.
I have the new boards and almost all the components to get them built :)
/MikeJ
That is good news! Is this the second batch of boards that have the fix for the spacing of the audio connectors? How many boards are in this second batch, another 50, or was it 100? I hope I am on the list to get one of them?
I hope your efforts to turn this into a commercial product are going well and you will soon have the opportunity to sell thousands of them, but finding retailers that will commit to purchasing large numbers of them is probably a hard thing to do for any small startup company. Plus the cost of packaging, marketing and peripherals, like the case, PSU, etc. all add up and may make the product too expensive for large retail distribution.
Still, I wish you luck MikeJ and I still think that the Replay board is a large step beyond the original MiniMig, so you might find that someone like ACube or AmigaKit is interested in selling them.
Edit: What is the amount of time it takes to complete the production of this second batch of boards? Is it a certain number per day, or does the production facility assembly all 50 or 100 boards in a few hours, since they are mechanically assembled, not hand assembled?
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YOU have to email mikej to get on list not sure whos on list i think the next batch is between 40 and 50 not sure exact figure.
I recall that mikej asked us NOT to email him and said he had a list. However, despite saying I wanted a board many months ago I've yet to see any list or know if I am on the list. So I emailed and asked (and got no response to that question).
Easiest would be a published waiting list somewhere IMHO ;)
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Oops. I have e-mailed him. Didn't mean to if it was the wrong thing to do. Put me on the list somewhere, if you could please, MikeJ. This project looks amazing!
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It's ok to email, I try to respond to everybody!
There is 50 in this batch. The FPGAs will not be delivered until mid June, so if all goes well I can get the boards built first week in July. It normally just takes a day or two to build.
Best,
MikeJ
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Hi.
I cannot seem to find a price, how much is it ?
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1-2 days to build one board?
Manual or machine assembly?
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@mikej If im on the list for the batch to be completed in July 2011 would i be able to get before for 13th July? since im going on holiday then. If not can I still pay for mine. Then you ship it to me once im back in the uk?
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@mikej If im on the list for the batch to be completed in July 2011 would i be able to get before for 13th July? since im going on holiday then. If not can I still pay for mine. Then you ship it to me once im back in the uk?
I won't know until the FPGAs have arrived. All I know is late June at the moment.
"1-2 days to build one board?
Manual or machine assembly? "
1-2 days to build all of them. Machine assembly of course, but some final hand assemble of through hole components is required currently.
/MikeJ
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cool ill email you mikej closer to time.
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@MikeJ: is it OK to email you at the address in the fpgaarcade page? I emailed you there.I'm not in a hurry, I would like to know it that's the right address, that's all-
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Hey MikeJ,
Congrats on getting so far with the boards. I've been following this thread since way back. I'm probably going to order one, but cash is tight. I tend to like to go with a 1.2 rev with new tech just so I can get some help using it from the early early adopters. I do have a question/idea which never got addressed in this thread:
Would it be possible to add another FPGA thru the expansion port? Does the expansion bus have direct i/o lines to the spartan, or is it like a FSB setup? (I'm only a little versed in hardware tech talk, enough to get myself in trouble) I'm thinking you could expand this board without having to do a rev. C no?
Just some thoughts to keep you busy... :)
Keep up the great work man! All my friends want a replay when they become widely available, I talk about it so much.
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You can connect another FPGA to the expansion port. The base FPGA is wired directly to the expansion port (no FSB).
(So picasso96 etc.. could be implemented)
Asfaik, lest mikej says something else.
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Maybe someone wants to buy my board (in a black mini itx case) -- all working and very cool ...do I hear ...hmm...€300 ? ;))))))))
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..or maybe someone rather like a rare MiniMig -- the special and very rare ITX V2 version which has svideo/composite tv-out plus remade power regulator and faster memory. Everything in a sexy little white Amiga colored 17x17 cabinet with all ports available from the back. :)
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does it include ie fpga replay board daughterboard?
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..or maybe someone rather like a rare MiniMig -- the special and very rare ITX V2 version which has svideo/composite tv-out plus remade power regulator and faster memory. Everything in a sexy little white Amiga colored 17x17 cabinet with all ports available from the back. :)
what price you want for minimig itx?
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You can connect another FPGA to the expansion port. The base FPGA is wired directly to the expansion port (no FSB).
(So picasso96 etc.. could be implemented)
Asfaik, lest mikej says something else.
The Spartan FPGA on the Replay is larger than the minimig... wonder if there would be enough room to do a picasso96 card in there as well.... maybe make it share the buffer with the delacer so they could overlay each other on screen.
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The Spartan FPGA on the Replay is larger than the minimig... wonder if there would be enough room to do a picasso96 card in there as well.... maybe make it share the buffer with the delacer so they could overlay each other on screen.
There's a lot of room. The FPGA is four times as big. And an RTG card is in the works.
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... The end of the world must be approacing fast ...... With all this gorgeous Amiga hardware on the way :-( Its an EEEEND TTTIMME SIGGN I tell ya ...... :-P
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JimS, I was referring to implementing another RTG in a FPGA daughterboard. Maybe soft-68060 is doable as well ;)
A cool thing would be multiple video output RTG card. Like running 8 monitors from the same Amiga..
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There's a lot of room. The FPGA is four times as big. And an RTG card is in the works.
Wow that is indeed some awesome news!!! Can't wait for it. Keep up surprising us guys! \o/
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There's a lot of room. The FPGA is four times as big. And an RTG card is in the works.
Cool. Thanks for the update. Kudos to you and MikeJ for a job well done.. ;-)
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@yaqube if mikej got some boards in july ready. are your boards going to be ready at same time or there abouts?
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JimS, I was referring to implementing another RTG in a FPGA daughterboard. Maybe soft-68060 is doable as well ;)
A cool thing would be multiple video output RTG card. Like running 8 monitors from the same Amiga..
Ah.... well, there's already a soft 030 in there right... so why not an '060 ;-)
How about doing a Toaster stub so that those of us with a Toaster in our real Amigas could run Lightwave and render to a simulated Toaster frame buffer? ;-) Lots of wacky ideas out there. ;-)
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@yaqube if mikej got some boards in july ready. are your boards going to be ready at same time or there abouts?
There is no chance to have them available at the same time. Maybe they will be ready for purchase by the end of the year.
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ok cool, Ill probably have the cash saved up by the time there ready then. lol
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I'm thinking a PCI-E x1 or x4 interface would be nice. Shouldn't be impossible to implement on a daughtercard. Opens up myriad possibilities for expansion and interconnect.
I don't think we all realize just what mikej has on his hands here. The idea now that we can have a compact computer that can mimic nearly any computer that preceded it, and indeed enable the resurrection of such platforms as viable consumer products, even for novelty's sake, is simply amazing. For sure he isn't the first to come up with the idea, but the implementation of this board configuration with its expansion bus and virtually all needed connectors to coexist in the current device arena is just what such a product needs to become something people want for Christmas - especially budget-minded nostalgia-addled middle aged men like myself :) CUSA can offer a cheap PC-based emulator stuffed in an impressively made case, but he can offer a single-board compact solution that behaves faithfully like any old PC (generic term implied) in a box smaller than a mac mini.
I know this will raise some hackles, but I personally would love to run Android on it. If it'll run Linux it'll happen. It has an ARM core. Why not?
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I see 4 SDRAM on the replay expansion board v1.0
4 SDRAM = How many Mb ??
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I see 4 SDRAM on the replay expansion board v1.0
4 SDRAM = How many Mb ??
4 SDRAMs = 128 MB
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Hum... It's not enough... With faster 060 (about 100 Mhz), software will be more complicated and will need more ram !
Add 384 Mb, Yaqube ! SDRAM in China is cheap these days...
Users don't want slowdown with HD partition swap...
The Natami team should add 512 Mo of fastram too on the Natami...
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Hum... It's not enough... With faster 060 (about 100 Mhz), software will be more complicated and will need more ram !
Add 384 Mb, Yaqube ! SDRAM in China is cheap these days...
Users don't want slowdown with HD partition swap...
The Natami team should add 512 Mo of fastram too on the Natami...
Who on Earth would want more than 640KB?
I think 128MB is fine for now until we actually see some applications being produced that require more, or at least slots that can be added to later.
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Who on Earth would want more than 640KB?
I think 128MB is fine for now until we actually see some applications being produced that require more, or at least slots that can be added to later.
wow you must be bill gates, well why not use your funds and port amiga os to x86
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>I think 128MB is fine for now until we actually see some applications being produced that require more, or at least slots that can be added to later
For now, yes !
But when you develop a product, you MUST think about the future...
Faster CPU = bigger software = more fastram needed !
1 module 32 Mb SDRAM 5 ns is less than 4 USD today : users will be ok to add some money to get more fastram, I'm sure. Open a poll to check...
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While you can never have enough memory, we also need to keep in mind that machine specs are always a tradeoff. Getting a working product out now is better than having the promise of a product in the future.
This seems to be one of the problems facing Natami. Changing specs keeps it from ever making to to production. I will happily take 128M memory on the FPGAArcade, and if that turns out to be too little in a few years, I will happily pay to buy a new FPGAArcade with more memory at that time.
This way I can play today, AND play tomorrow. As opposed to hoping that some day I will get to play with the perfect board.
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While you can never have enough memory, we also need to keep in mind that machine specs are always a tradeoff. Getting a working product out now is better than having the promise of a product in the future.
This seems to be one of the problems facing Natami. Changing specs keeps it from ever making to to production. I will happily take 128M memory on the FPGAArcade, and if that turns out to be too little in a few years, I will happily pay to buy a new FPGAArcade with more memory at that time.
This way I can play today, AND play tomorrow. As opposed to hoping that some day I will get to play with the perfect board.
agreed. I'm happy to upgrade every so often, just like I do with my PCs. feature creep is a killer.
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The main problem is space actually on the expansion board, the processor is huge!
The second problem is tracking. It may be possible to stick rams on both sides which would double the capacity. I'm just starting to look at this seriously.
/MikeJ
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It's feature creep that always reminds me of the BoXeR and why I'm kind of doubtful as to the eventual release of Natami.
But yeah, the fpga arcade does look to be a very nice solution :)
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While you can never have enough memory, we also need to keep in mind that machine specs are always a tradeoff. Getting a working product out now is better than having the promise of a product in the future.
This seems to be one of the problems facing Natami. Changing specs keeps it from ever making to to production. I will happily take 128M memory on the FPGAArcade, and if that turns out to be too little in a few years, I will happily pay to buy a new FPGAArcade with more memory at that time.
This way I can play today, AND play tomorrow. As opposed to hoping that some day I will get to play with the perfect board.
Babbage Syndrome.... keep thinking "wouldn't it be cool if.....", then never actually finishing the project before running out of funds.
My "real" Amiga never had more than 13MB, and I was never pressed for space. Well, except in chipram, which won't be a problem for either the Natami or Replay.
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@mikej
Please don't let feature creep derail your project. You also don't want a thousand different models when it comes to warranty/add-ons/tech support.
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Who on Earth would want more than 640KB?
I think 128MB is fine for now until we actually see some applications being produced that require more, or at least slots that can be added to later.
But what will you do when applications are produced that require more? You're screwed.
Yes, slots are good. I like SODIMM slots. But that can be another pile of stuff to deal with, adding ability to scan modules to know what they are, what if modules report wrong spec (as I understand a lot of them did causing memory issues with A1 boards). A fixed design helps focus and debug elsewhere, perhaps a later respin will trade hardwired RAM for a mem slot.
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The main problem is space actually on the expansion board, the processor is huge!
The second problem is tracking. It may be possible to stick rams on both sides which would double the capacity. I'm just starting to look at this seriously.
/MikeJ
Some memories have dual package options that mirror each other. Then the top side chip can connect to the bottom side chip with nothing but vias. Of course that may be in the way of your decoupling caps, but they must have a solution for that. I think it's popular with graphics cards.
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Babbage Syndrome...
Absolutely perfect description, mind it I use it?
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But what will you do when applications are produced that require more? You're screwed.
Nope. Not screwed. When applications are produced that require more, we buy an FPGAArcade 2. I can't imagine that bloat is going to be so fast that we will be running out of 128M in the next year or two.
No matter how much power Mike puts on the board, it will always have the potential to need more. By allowing feature creep to prevent a proper roll out, the only way that adding more memory would prevent someone from running out is by having the board never completed in the first place.
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No feature creep on the main board - the B02 board is production ready as far as I can tell. Everything seems to fit and we are processing the manufacturing data.
FPGAs should be delivered next week then we are good to go.
I added some pics on
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
Note I also have the new ATX power control board back as well. The chips to build it with arrive at the weekend.
/MikeJ
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No matter how much power Mike puts on the board, it will always have the potential to need more. By allowing feature creep to prevent a proper roll out, the only way that adding more memory would prevent someone from running out is by having the board never completed in the first place.
Yep, I'm always reminded of the old wives tale that whatever size hard drive you buy is will always be exactly half of what you need - so just buy it and upgrade later. :D
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No feature creep on the main board - the B02 board is production ready as far as I can tell. Everything seems to fit and we are processing the manufacturing data.
FPGAs should be delivered next week then we are good to go.
I added some pics on
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
Note I also have the new ATX power control board back as well. The chips to build it with arrive at the weekend.
/MikeJ
Hi Mike,
are these the FPGA Arcade boards in China ready to ship or do I have you confused with someone else? ;)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/mobos.jpg)
(Sorry, I couldn't resist)
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I think 128MB will be fine for now, it could take a very long time for someone to write some 68k AGA code that would require more than 128mb to run (eg FPGA specific code).
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Hi Mike,
are these the FPGA Arcade boards in China ready to ship or do I have you confused with someone else? ;)
(Sorry, I couldn't resist)
Lol, was wondering who'd post that :D
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I need a pan to collect all the drool that is coming out of my mouth right now.
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That is good to hear. I really am looking forward to being able to buy one, and I am doing my best to remain patient. And that is really hard!
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No feature creep on the main board - the B02 board is production ready as far as I can tell. Everything seems to fit and we are processing the manufacturing data.
FPGAs should be delivered next week then we are good to go.
I added some pics on
www.fpgaarcade.com (http://www.fpgaarcade.com)
Note I also have the new ATX power control board back as well. The chips to build it with arrive at the weekend.
/MikeJ
Sweeeeeeet! I cannot wait to get my crubby mitts on this board. :banana:
The Dawg
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>My "real" Amiga never had more than 13MB, and I was never pressed for space
Because you have a CPU not very powerfull !
>I think 128MB will be fine for now, it could take a very long time for someone to write some 68k AGA code that would require more than 128mb to run (eg FPGA specific code)
128 Mb or 256 Mb will be not enough soon too : remember the A500. At the begining 512 Kb was enough for most of the games/demos. But quickly, 1 Mb was required...
512 Mb only on the Natami = big mistake...
@mikej & @yaqube
It's your product, do what you wants ! I'm only writting here what I mean.
Remember well that SDRam is old now and not used very much on the market these days.
Brokers in China perfectly know that and have only one goal : sell. So, you can discuss and purchase one 32 Mb module at 1.50~2.00 USD I'm sure...
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Want one for sure but how do i get yaqube add on board are you selling it or yaqube is and is there a list somewhere for it??
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Want one for sure but how do i get yaqube add on board are you selling it or yaqube is and is there a list somewhere for it??
I don't believe there is a list yet as it is still being worked on.
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Good but I want in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not that i would retire any of my Amiga's i would use it along side them.. dam running out of room in the retro computer room fast! may have to just have one Apple IIE or IIGS and one C64 or C128 set up there instead of one of each... Hate you guys !!! :D
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cant people use virtual ram which would load from either sd card slot or micro sd slot on daughter board?
or would sd be too slow ie is class 10 too slow?
ie http://aminet.net/search?query=virtual+memory
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128 Mb or 256 Mb will be not enough soon too : remember the A500. At the begining 512 Kb was enough for most of the games/demos. But quickly, 1 Mb was required...
Could you give some concrete examples of what you would realistically want to do on a 68k Amiga that requires more than 128 Mb RAM? 68k developers thankfully don't seem to be in a hurry to climb the curves of Moore's Law.
cant people use virtual ram which would load from either sd card slot or micro sd slot on daughter board?
or would sd be too slow ie is class 10 too slow?
ie http://aminet.net/search?query=virtual+memory
If it works with a real Amiga hard disk, I don't see why it wouldn't work on this board.
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Hi Mike,
are these the FPGA Arcade boards in China ready to ship or do I have you confused with someone else? ;)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/mobos.jpg)
(Sorry, I couldn't resist)
One day ....
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Could you give some concrete examples of what you would realistically want to do on a 68k Amiga that requires more than 128 Mb RAM?
Gfx. Games.
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Absolutely perfect description, mind it I use it?
Be my guest.... I probably borrowed it from somewhere myself.
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As I understand it there's 32 MB on the baseboard and those 4x SDRAM (128 MB) are on the future add-on 68060/ethernet etc.. expansion board. In that case it's still in development and replacing them with better options for DRAM would be easy. In particular different type of DRAM-stick could pack more memory in the same space. Provided the I/O interface isn't a pain to interface.
A caveat with DRAM in general is to watch out for obsolence. That can make sourcing the components a pain.
In case of crisis, just spin a daughterboard full of DRAM sockets. And have 20 GB ram if you need.. ;)
Something that could be useful is an expansion connector on the backside of the board such that one can stack several of them ontop of each other just like PC/104:
(http://eri.ca.sandia.gov/eri/pics/pcmciastack.jpg)
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The FPGA Replay Board gets a mention on the Amp Hour Radio Show!
The Amp Hour is an electronics engineering radio show that I listen to. They don't usually discuss this sort of thing on there, it's more electronics design biased than anything else, but this week their conversation went off on a tangent and Jeff Keyzer (aka mightyohm.com) mentioned that he always used an Amiga when he was younger as opposed to a PC. So they start talking about that, and then Jeff moves on to the FPGA Replay board and discusses it.
Check it out here:
http://www.theamphour.com/2011/06/14/theamphour47-the-mothership-manifesto/
The Amiga/FPGA Replay Board discussion comes in at 8 minutes for those that want to skip right to it.
AH
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I've just stuck all the connectors on the board, and I'm happy to say the widest DVI cable I have fits nicely now between the audio and SD card (just). Happy days.
/MikeJ
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so new batch all ready begun to be built wow
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Just curious, and apologies if it's already been stated:
How long after the mainboard release until the daughtercard is due? I need ethernet available.
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cant find on thread its in here somewhere but this is the quote " 06-06-2011, 03:01 PM
Replies: 785
FPGA Replay Board
Views: 58,529
Posted By yaqube
Re: FPGA Replay Board
There is no chance to have them available at the same time. Maybe they will be ready for purchase by the end of the year."
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Gfx. Games.
You'll have to look hard for a game with even half those requirements without resorting to boring PC ports. I'm sure that there's a huge market who wants play sub-par ports of old PC games and use OWB in slow motion on these boards...
What kind of graphic work would you do? Raytracing spheres over checkerboards in 5000 x 5000 AGA? Spinning chrome logotype animations over grid pattern in 1080p? ;)
Please be more specific, and as I said, more realistic! 68k in the high end memory range is a niche market, and I frankly don't see why anyone would go that route just to be able to do in 1/100th of the quality and speed what any sane person would do with a modern computer. I don't think that a 68k Amiga has anything to catch up to when it comes to modern computers... they're different fruit!
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On the one hand, you have to keep in mind that Amiga 68k isn't the only machine that the FPGAArcade can be.
On the other hand, the question should really be, what task would need 128M, where 512M wouldn't be too little.
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Implementing some 3D and texture acceleration is possible with the FPGA. Infact the CPU doesn't need much involvment at all perhaps.
Anyone has an estimation on the diffeculty level?, and what other functionality could be needed?
Any CPU specificly targeted towards FPGAs should emply parallism and pipelining as much as possible.
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just looked at Mike J's new pics on his fpga arcade website. The pcbs looking good.
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does anyone know if fpga arcade could fit in a pico itx case?
well found travla TE-D288 case dimensions 178 mm x 55.2 mm x 162.5 mm, 7" x 2.1" x 6.4" hope it fits in I might have to move the power supply (ie reposition) for it to fit in.
fpga arcade is i think by what can see on pdf 17cm by 8 cm in inches is 6.69 inches by 3.149 inches.
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/fpgaarcade_replay_b01_dimensions.pdf
how deep is fpga arcade with daughter board?
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The more RAM the better, I say. It would be useful for caching data for multimedia work, or making a big RAM Disk to speed up the system as a whole.
Once it's there, someone will find a way of making it useful.
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Sure, that is why there is so much now. At some point you have to say, this is enough for this model. It would be great if we could have 128 petabyte, but 32 on the basic board and 128 with the daughter card is fine. Delaying the boards to squeeze in a little more that still won't be "enough" would have been a mistake.
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Sure, that is why there is so much now. At some point you have to say, this is enough for this model. It would be great if we could have 128 petabyte, but 32 on the basic board and 128 with the daughter card is fine. Delaying the boards to squeeze in a little more that still won't be "enough" would have been a mistake.
The mainboard hase 64MB installed.
So the mainboard (replay) and the daughterboard together give a grant total of 192MB.
Looks enough to me.
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Where is the statement that it's 64 MB onboard?, last update on that issue said 32 MB asfaik.
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_just_ 32MB would be plenty for most Amiga software and games. It's only newer workloads that might need more.
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The mainboard hase 64MB installed.
from sig..
1x FPGA Replay v1.0B (main Amiga)
im willing to believe it has 64MB ;-)
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The things that would be awesome to me to emulate on this board dont even need 32 ;) (c64, coco2/3, ti99, etc).
32mb? awesome. 64mb,128mb? not sure what I'd do with it!
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Will this have audio delay issues with OctaMED Sound Studio like WinUAE does?
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Where is the statement that it's 64 MB onboard?, last update on that issue said 32 MB asfaik.
Page 5 of the schematic.
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/fpgaarcade_replay_b01_schematic_a2.pdf
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Will this have audio delay issues with OctaMED Sound Studio like WinUAE does?
Gosh I hope not. But any time you start doing something that is not a real Paula, seems trouble is not far behind. But this is actual hardware shaped into a Paula, not emulated. So should be good.
Feel I asked this before, but how does the minimig perform with OSS ?
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I think there's a small collective of us who judge our Amiga experience by how well and how accurate OSS runs. ;)
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Where is the statement that it's 64 MB onboard?, last update on that issue said 32 MB asfaik.
There is 64MB as Wizard said, and it can be configured in several ways:
CHIP: 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0
SLOW: None, 0.5, 1.0, 1.5
FAST: None, 2.0, 4.0, 8.0
XRAM: None, 48MB FAST, 48MB CHIP
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There is 64MB as Wizard said, and it can be configured in several ways:
CHIP: 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0
SLOW: None, 0.5, 1.0, 1.5
FAST: None, 2.0, 4.0, 8.0
XRAM: None, 48MB FAST, 48MB CHIP
Is this a new math where 48 + 48 = 64?
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32, 64, 128. Pretty much anything over 8 is fine and increasing it wouldn't be worth any delay in production.
You can be sure that if the boards make Mike a profit, and people find that they need more memory than what is currently offered, there will be an FPGAArcade 2.
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Is this a new math where 48 + 48 = 64?
Where do you get 48+48? It is an either-or. You either have no XRAM, 48 MB or CHIP or 48MB of FAST.
Currently you can have a maximum of 2+1.5+8+48 selected = 59.5MB. Just like on the Minimig I'm sure some RAM is required by the hardware itself and the amounts allocated it the menu are subject to change with core revisions.
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Seems Mikej upgraded to 64 MB. Anyway any hinderance to make use of the full 16 MB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_500#Memory_map) maximum the 68000 can address ?, the full control should make this possible.
I don't think there will be any audio delay issues with OctaMED or anything else unless Minimig also have such issue. An FPGA can work cycle exact. Something software can't do unless the realtime capability is sacrified. Or you can run the whole hardware simulation loop in less than a cycle of the emulated system.
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Seems Mikej upgraded to 64 MB.
The design can accept 32 or 64 MB memory chips but all the produced boards are populated with 64 MB. Frankly speaking I don't know why some people spread around false information about installed memory size.
Anyway any hinderance to make use of the full 16 MB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_500#Memory_map) maximum the 68000 can address ?
The TG68K in 68000 mode can access full 32-bit address space (like a real 68012 CPU) and use additional 48 MB of RAM. But because some programs cause problems when running in this configuration I have decided to limit address space to 16MB when 68000 mode is selected. Full address space is accessible in 68020 mode.
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Frankly speaking I don't know why some people spread around false information about installed memory size.
Asfair he used a 32 MB chip in an earlier PCB schematic. But technical data has to be compiled from different sources and files. Thus mistakes are easy.
(ie find the hopefully latest schematic, find the DRAM chip in the schematic, lookup the datasheet, calculate for ddr/bit width etc..)
The TG68K in 68000 mode can access full 32-bit address space (like a real 68012 CPU) and use additional 48 MB of RAM. But because some programs cause problems when running in this configuration I have decided to limit address space to 16MB when 68000 mode is selected. Full address space is accessible in 68020 mode.
My thought was more on make use of all memory ranges. Even those that can't be expanded on a real Amiga. In particular CHIP ram tend to be scarce. And there should be no reason for that to be that way using FPGA+DRAM.
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Where is the statement that it's 64 MB onboard?, last update on that issue said 32 MB asfaik.
Boy's and girls, the replay board is fitted with a 64MB RAMChip.
2 MB chip
2 MB slow (minus 512kb for kickstart just like the minimig) so you have 1.5MB left.
8 MB A2091/A590 Fastmen
48 MB XRAM usable for fastmem or chip so you can have a total of 50MB chipmem ;-)
Look @ The picture for the memory menu..
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@wizard66 i have amiga os3.9 installed on a sd card with rdb instead of fat and smart filesystem, will i be able to load off that? or will i need to convert my card to hdf? has to use with fpga arcade
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@wizard66 i have amiga os3.9 installed on a sd card with rdb instead of fat and smart filesystem, will i be able to load off that? or will i need to convert my card to hdf? has to use with fpga arcade
You NEED a HDF file if you want to use a harddrive on the replay.
Make a HDF with winuae.
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so would amikit amiga forever version and amisys amiga forever version will they work has they are in hdf? or would I need make them from scratch on fpga arcade ie like rebuild work bench from amikit installation.
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Asfair he used a 32 MB chip in an earlier PCB schematic. But technical data has to be compiled from different sources and files. Thus mistakes are easy.
.
The baseboard on all revisions has always had a 64MByte chip. I made a mistake on the comment on the schematic originally and labled it as a 32M chip.
/MikeJ
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Hi Mikej,
Any news on when you might be putting these into production?
Or a rough guess when we can order one of the final-but-pre-production boards?
I know it can be hard to judge these things but I'm also ever optimistic :D
Andy
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soon.
I'm waiting for the FPGAs to be delivered - should be this week.
I am still checking stock, but I believe I have everything else in place and am starting to kit for production of the 44 production pre-run.
If all goes well, these should be with me mid July, and they can be shipped out immediately.
/MikeJ
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Hi Mikej,
Any news on when you might be putting these into production?
Or a rough guess when we can order one of the final-but-pre-production boards?
I know it can be hard to judge these things but I'm also ever optimistic :D
Andy
@ AJCopland
same to you for the natami mx boards consumer version (edit found my answer whilst browsing vesalia september 2011 is the tentative date). Im getting my fpga arcade board hopefully in next few weeks when mikej builds next batch.
got nice clear case, 68060 for it and pico psu 80 watts hopefully powerfully enough to run daughterboard too when thats released.
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@Digiflip,
I'm having trouble accessing the rest of the site but I think you've already had your answer answered in the other thread. I don't personally know why Vesalia thinks Sept 2011 but I'd guess that they've just put the figure there as a guess.
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If there's demand for another batch. How long would it take to realise?
Btw, do the boards come pre-assembled with the BGA mounted FPGA from China. Or is that done by the same machine that do the other components?
BGA tend to be a pain-in-the-ass ;)
Regarding expansion boards. Maybe a solid power supply solution should be planned for so that it won't overload weak or loose DC-plugs, fit common power supplies, don't become a birds nest etc..
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@Digiflip,
I'm having trouble accessing the rest of the site but I think you've already had your answer answered in the other thread. I don't personally know why Vesalia thinks Sept 2011 but I'd guess that they've just put the figure there as a guess.
well at least they are not taking peoples money for it yet
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so would amikit amiga forever version and amisys amiga forever version will they work has they are in hdf? or would I need make them from scratch on fpga arcade ie like rebuild work bench from amikit installation.
They're configured for WinUAE and if you try and do a straight copy off the AmigaForever disks to a real Amiga or a Minimig then it won't work.
That said, I used WinUAE to set up Bloodwych ClassicWB hard files and then copied that to my Minimig v1.1 (ClassicWB 68000) and also to my A4000 hard drive (ClassicWB 3.x) and they work fine.
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If there's demand for another batch. How long would it take to realise?
Btw, do the boards come pre-assembled with the BGA mounted FPGA from China. Or is that done by the same machine that do the other components?
BGA tend to be a pain-in-the-ass ;)
Regarding expansion boards. Maybe a solid power supply solution should be planned for so that it won't overload weak or loose DC-plugs, fit common power supplies, don't become a birds nest etc..
The FPGA Arcade allows you to connect 5v power in 3 ways:
1. 2 pin adapter in the bottom corner next to the power switch.
2. Round 5v DC adapter as used on the Minimig v1.1 on the right side of the power switch.
3. Standard "PC" hard drive/CD ROM drive 5v adapter on the right of "2" (I use this with a cheap power supply from one of those USB-SATA/IDE cable kits, but you could easily use a PC power supply assuming it will stay "on" without being connected to a PC on/off switch).
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They're configured for WinUAE and if you try and do a straight copy off the AmigaForever disks to a real Amiga or a Minimig then it won't work.
That said, I used WinUAE to set up Bloodwych ClassicWB hard files and then copied that to my Minimig v1.1 (ClassicWB 68000) and also to my A4000 hard drive (ClassicWB 3.x) and they work fine.
well i copied all workbench folder in hidden folders to a working compactflash drive within winuae to use on a real amiga and booted to amiga forevers workbench 3.x without problem ps i found this smaller than a normal os 3.9 installation too.
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The FPGA Arcade allows you to connect 5v power in 3 ways:
1. 2 pin adapter in the bottom corner next to the power switch.
2. Round 5v DC adapter as used on the Minimig v1.1 on the right side of the power switch.
3. Standard "PC" hard drive/CD ROM drive 5v adapter on the right of "2" (I use this with a cheap power supply from one of those USB-SATA/IDE cable kits, but you could easily use a PC power supply assuming it will stay "on" without being connected to a PC on/off switch).
you forgot the 4th way mikej's atx pcb adapter
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you forgot the 4th way mikej's atx pcb adapter
The ATX adapter still connect to the 4 way molex (hard drive connector) - the other end connects to the 20 pin ATX supply.
The adapter boards main job is allow you to turn the PSU on and off with the push button.
The boards come fully assembled to me, the same machine fits all components - including the BGA.
I'm in discussions to build 500 after the next 44, this will happen as soon as the 44 are shifted out and appear to be completely stable.
/MikeJ
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well i copied all workbench folder in hidden folders to a working compactflash drive within winuae to use on a real amiga and booted to amiga forevers workbench 3.x without problem ps i found this smaller than a normal os 3.9 installation too.
what version of AmigaForever are you using? I have 2010 and neither that or a previous version would work, which is why I used ClassicWb and the installed the network options off the OS3.9 CD later.
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ATX PCB adapter?
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ATX PCB adapter?
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
It's on the top op the site (realy)..
P.S O and congrads on your 1000 post ;-)
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what version of AmigaForever are you using? I have 2010 and neither that or a previous version would work, which is why I used ClassicWb and the installed the network options off the OS3.9 CD later.
I used amiga forever 2011 version not sure if much different to yours.
I may try do same again has I sent this one i got working off. When i sold my old amiga 1200 with aca1230 and amiga forever 5.
going try soon just backing up my microdirve whats on allready in fat32 format.
Basically if i recall i converted fat32 to rdb then formatted to ffs to 2 partitions if 4gb or less if more than 4gb i use smart file system.
once done this i then just coped every from workbench fold off workbench 3.x and also everything from work to corresponding work partition on new rdbed disc.
I will test this soon
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i kept getting errors trying to repartition microdirve so put in mac os x and erased drive has free space with mbr. so could use in amiga forever to partition.
yep this fixed my method now to transfer workbench ( trying amiga sys 4 tonite will try amiga forever workbench tomorrow)
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I'm about to head off to Glastonbury music festival, so I'll be out of email contact for a week.
Cheers!
MikeJ
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MikeJ, Isn't 500 boards a huge economical risk? The first 100 boards should be no problem. But 500..
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I smell an investor...Amigakit???
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MikeJ, Isn't 500 boards a huge economical risk? The first 100 boards should be no problem. But 500..
If you are going to do something, might as well do it properly!
Volume is the only way to get the price.
Lets see how we go.
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MikeJ, Isn't 500 boards a huge economical risk? The first 100 boards should be no problem. But 500..
Remember, this isn't just Amiga.
There is a good size market for people with Arcade machines whose insides are almost always in trouble..
Some of the old machines weren't necessarily built that well (I'm looking at you Pole Position II!!!)...
desiv
p.s. Enjoy the fest!
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Remember, this isn't just Amiga.
There is a good size market for people with Arcade machines whose insides are almost always in trouble..
Some of the old machines weren't necessarily built that well (I'm looking at you Pole Position II!!!)...
desiv
p.s. Enjoy the fest!
yeah mikes original idea I think was for jamma boards and arcade machines.
dont forget he has quite a few cores ready to go from old retro computers + arcade machines iirc..?
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I'd be interested in one from the run after the upcoming 44. It would be for a retro-box that can emulate a number of systems not just Amiga (though I suspect the Amiga core will be the my most used :). I'd be willing to put down a deposit, if that helps.
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We'll, i'm just back from Glastonbury. Amazing as always,
I'm still working through a backlog of emails, but I built an atx power controller board to test it and boxed up my Replay board so it is more mobile. You can see at :
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
No firm dates on production yet, still waiting for FPGAs.
/MikeJ
p.s. some good random festival pics can be found here :
http://www.efestivals.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=136701&st=1360
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I hope you get those FPGA soon i can't wait for my one (consumer version), but what about those 060 daugther boards how will they be produced and in what numbers?
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If you are going to do something, might as well do it properly!
Volume is the only way to get the price.
Lets see how we go.
I totally agree with Mike on the volume approach to achieve an attractive price point to maximize interest. As for risk I'm sure Mike has done his business due diligence to ascertain interest not only from his own website, but from the various other sites (i.e. A.org). I believe partnering up with companies like Amigakit, Verslia, and others would be very smart to maximize the impact on the retro-computer scene, and to include the many arcade sites that would love to promote this great piece of kit. So, is 500 pieces a bit too much, I would say that it is a modest start.
Mike count me on 1, so now there are only 499 left available!
The Dawg
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@mikej will you be emailing people on your list when you want payment. Ps how do I find out if im on the 44 list or the big 500?
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@mikej will you be emailing people on your list when you want payment. Ps how do I find out if im on the 44 list or the big 500?
I asked this on forum and in email and never got any answer so I would not expect you to get one :(
I'm just assuming I am since I asked aeons ago ;) but a published list would ease worries!
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maybe he will do this on his main site or confirm soon if a reseller is going to stock his fpga replay
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Hi there, i've just run into this thread, and i'm really amazed about what this project could perform, but, could some of you please provide some info about what are the real specs of this system, what cores are available and how do they perform? How much would this board cost?
I've seen some info that it could emulate a 020 around 50mhz or so with RTG without the need of the daughter board, but i don't have any idea about other cores/systems.
Cheers.
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Hi there, i've just run into this thread, and i'm really amazed about what this project could perform, but, could some of you please provide some info about what are the real specs of this system, what cores are available and how do they perform? How much would this board cost?
I've seen some info that it could emulate a 020 around 50mhz or so with RTG without the need of the daughter board, but i don't have any idea about other cores/systems.
Cheers.
It seems as though there's a core based on the TG68k.C with added instructions from the '020 and also AGA compatibility. Now also with an Picasso 96 RTG chipset as seen in this thread:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58425
Yaqube has also made a daughterboard that adds a '060 and seems to be really pushing a lot of features onto these things :)
I think MikeJ has mentioned that he's got other platforms running on it as well, after all it's not just an Amiga system. I guess this means that other FPGA based platforms could soon be ported across too it such as fpgagen (megadrive) : http://code.google.com/p/fpgagen/
Should people be interested in doing that.
Andy
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Here is a good idea (IMHO):
1. Make Minimig being able to autoboot an ADF file (e.g. autoboot.adf) from root at sdcard -- if the file is there. If not, it continues as usual to the WB-Hand screen.
2. Then this ADF boots a menuloader using the startup-sequence of the adf "diskette"
3. That menuloader can be quite nice and show all games and demos on the sdcard and
maybe also show with thumbnails and have lots of nice info on the game like
screenshot. PLus maybe some nice screenshots of the game + gameinfo. And the
trick is then to be able to select the game you want, and have the minimig boot it :)
Would be nice to have kind of like a MediaCenter type of presentation of the games on the card --- more "LivingRoom" friendly :)
Espen
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How does the Amiga side know or even change to other ADF:s or HDF:s ..?
There's no "change disk automaticly" API in Amiga.. ;)
Though autoboot.adf or autoboot.hdf is a good idea.
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How about it just renames the selected adf file to "autoboot.adf" and restarts the replay :)
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Thinking about this for a while.. this renaming business maybe isn't such a good idea. it might be better with a configuration file that points to the .adf or .hdf file to boot.
If the filesystem were a unix one, a quick filelink would solved it ;)
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Oh, the world would be a better place if everything was running on unix :) In my mind, there is no doubt -- however, I know there are split feelings on that matter. Hehe, but let's not fire up a OS-War kind of discussion (Although I miss the old days when we used to fight PC vs. Amiga OS wars on the BBS's ---- man, good days....good days)
Anyway, what you say about having an entry in minimig config which points to a ADF file and boots that first (if a autoboot=true) flag is set -- I support you on this.
But how are we going to access the minimig config file from the amiga os when that file resides on the root of the sd card ?
Espen
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Oh, the world would be a better place if everything was running on unix :)
On the practical side implementing a unix-fs might be tough for a microcontroller.. ;)
But how are we going to access the minimig config file from the amiga os when that file resides on the root of the sd card ?
The same way you switch discs right now?
Otherwise a simple block interface to the raw SD-card from the Amiga side could make workable.
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So what we need is:
1. Someone to program an interface for Amiga OS -- preferably one with Joystick selector or Mouse support so that it is easily navigateable (!).
2. Bundle it on a ADF + a startup-sequence so it autoboots
3. Beta testers...well, aren't we all that ;)
Alternative A
I think that it would be cool if ADF format also had a small section inside itself (e.g. 64kb) to hold: Info on the adf-contents, a screenshot, +++
This info could then be shown in the selector.
OR
Alternative B:
Put a .adx file in parallell with the .adf file where x stands for "eXtra" so that if the adf file has such a daughterfile, the amiga selector uses this for displaying extra info on the adf file -- and he .adx file can hold e.g. a jpeg + text etc...
OR: One could just hardcode the selector with gameinfo, but that would not be cool as you could have to compile the selector every time you change the SD CARD contents...
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Alternative A
I think that it would be cool if ADF format also had a small section inside itself (e.g. 64kb) to hold: Info on the adf-contents, a screenshot, +++
This info could then be shown in the selector.
OR
Like the IFF chunks? ;)
Alternative B:
Put a .adx file in parallell with the .adf file where x stands for "eXtra" so that if the adf file has such a daughterfile, the amiga selector uses this for displaying extra info on the adf file -- and he .adx file can hold e.g. a jpeg + text etc...
Those infofiles tends to get lost..
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The best way to handle the configuration is to implement a standard serial port on the floppy controller processor module that is already implemented in the FPGA. Connect these lines to a serial port on the Amiga side, and you now have a simple communication system between the low level floppy controller and Workbench. From there it should be trivial to write a bit of code that lets you copy files from the Amiga side over the serial line to write it to the SD card. The Amiga should see the floppy controller as a floppy drive from one direction, but should also see the floppy controller as a remote computer connected over the serial port not even realizing that they are the same processor.
While writing the floppy controller code would likely be limited to a small subset of programmers, the Amiga side of things could be handled by a much wider range of developers. As a bonus, the floppy controller could have a second serial port exposed to header pins so that an adapter could be made that allowed external control via simple DIY projects.
As for bundling extra information, the best way to handle that is to adopt the RP9 file format from Amiga Forever. This would not only give you your image files, help files, manuals and whatnot, it would also allow you to store you Amiga configuration file in with the rest, all in one file.
As a seperate task, if the disk controller serial connection described above were implemented, the disk's startup file could be set to auto initiate a download of the various files from the serial port to a ramdisk. This means that all of your supporting files would be available to you on Workbench from the same RP9 file.
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3. That menuloader can be quite nice and show all games and demos on the sdcard and
maybe also show with thumbnails and have lots of nice info on the game like
screenshot. PLus maybe some nice screenshots of the game + gameinfo. And the
trick is then to be able to select the game you want, and have the minimig boot it :)
The fpga replay board isn't just about amiga though. It would be better to browse through all games and then switch to the correct emulation based on what you selected.
So it should probably boot into some custom os or linux (it's got to be good for something other than routers, right?).
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The Replay board currently works a little differently to the minimig boot.
The board boots up an FPGA image which displays a boot menu, which lets you scroll through directories to chose a platform. (Actually, the boot platform is just the one it files in the \replay directory - it could be any core)
Each directory can contain a .ini file which sets up video standards, clocks and other core specific options (these also appear as on screen selections)
The ini file also gives a list of files to load into DRAM at specific addresses (think ROMs here).
Finally, the ini file also can select default image files to mount as floppy/hard disk images. The ini file can of course be easily edited by sticking the SD card in a PC.
This is all driven by the ARM controller. I am still developing this code, I'm not quite there at the moment, but close.
sorry a bit brief, on holiday at the moment so using the 'phone.
/MikeJ
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Before using the RP9 format, check that it's copyright free.
Serial link to the floppy seems overkill. All those serial commands has to be implemented in the MCU or RTL.. messy. Better to just add another block interface.
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Thanks for taking time during your vacation, Mike.
Just wondering -- Would it be able to have one SD card that we can have directories on, e.g. one for Amiga, one for each Arcade, one for C64 and one for VIC20 ..etc, and then when you power up the Replay, it boots a custom "root" menu where you can first choose which Core to use, and from there you can get a sub menu where you have predefined core-setups (i.e. A500, A1200 etc etc) for the Amiga, and if you e.g. wants to boot a Arcade Core, you can choose from any core-bin on the "Arcade" folder of the SD card to boot up PacMan or the Arcade core you prefer.
Is this doable or are there limitations ? I think that the presentation of the Replay from the time you power on to the time you can interact as a user, is important so that you can either have a "interface for dummies" or a more complex and manual OSD interface for more experienced users. That would have been awesome!!!
Espen
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If you can tell the microcontroller (ARM) what image to "boot" it's doable.
The open question is what machine/OS will be used as a platform for the menues, an Amiga might be overkill for the task. It will also require an interface from the computer side to interface with the microcontroller in a consistent manner without bootlenecks.
Block access might be convinient but may also make it possible to corrupt the entire fashmemory. An alternative is to limit access only to a single data block of configuration files.
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@mikej, Still waiting for those pesky FPGA chips? ;)
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Before using the RP9 format, check that it's copyright free.
You can't copyright facts, such as a fileformat. You can copyright the *description* of one, but that doesn't prevent re-implementing code to handle it.
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@mikej, Still waiting for those pesky FPGA chips? ;)
Sadly yes :(
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You can't copyright facts, such as a fileformat. You can copyright the *description* of one, but that doesn't prevent re-implementing code to handle it.
unless it's patented, not that I think it is (but it's possible).
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Where did you order the FPGA chips? (Digikey, Horizon, Avnet, Cedar)
Maybe it could pay to save upp enough money to buy 1000+ chips directly from the manufacurer. To get less lead times. And avoid further "shortages".
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Where did you order the FPGA chips? (Digikey, Horizon, Avnet, Cedar)
Maybe it could pay to save upp enough money to buy 1000+ chips directly from the manufacurer. To get less lead times. And avoid further "shortages".
Lead times are part of life with these things. If Mikej is independently wealthy, perhaps he can afford to stock his own distribution warehouse, but very few people can do that kind of thing. I'm also not sure how big of a deal 1000 units is, that may still be a low-priority order from the vendor.
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unless it's patented, not that I think it is (but it's possible).
Didn't Microsoft give people hassle over their patents on FAT or FAT32 filesystems in flash cards and USB sticks?
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Microsoft has the right to sue people for using the long filename feature (LFN). The FAT filesystem as such is free asfaik however (they lost the case). Except for ExFAT.
The rationale is to avoid any "standards" created by corporations.
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Microsoft has the right to sue people for using the long filename feature (LFN).
The problem is supporting short and long file names at the same time. If you only support one or the other (possibly including making it switchable) then you don't appear to have a problem.
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Yeah it's complicated. Because you have to update two filename tables that must be valid simultainiously.
In the end, FAT is Fücked up. It's bad. But has infected virtually all computers on this planet.
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Xilinx always ship through distributors (unless you want 100K sort of quantities).
You get a lead time when you place the order, sometimes they can pull it in. I know there is high demand at the moment so with the volumes I need I get what they give me !
Cheers,
Mike
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Good news, a big box of FPGAs has just landed on my desk!
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I can hear the world wide cheering already :-)
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Good news, a big box of FPGAs has just landed on my desk!
That news is music to my ears! :)
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I can hear the world wide cheering already :-)
Yes great stuff :-)
More FPGA Replay users !!! Joint the club guy's we feel a bit lonely
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Any pictures of the box, and it's interior ? ;)
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well, it's not very exciting. I can take a picture.
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Just curious how 100 FPGA:s are packed ;)
(or 50?)
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Good news, a big box of FPGAs has just landed on my desk!
And there was much rejoicing. Yeeeay. :)
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Good news, mike, can't wait to order one!
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Good news, mike, can't wait to order one!
Me too!
Money is here waiting to be spent on a Replay board. Just tell me when and where to send the money Mike. Paypal is fine with me too, if you are set up to receive payments that way.
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Great news!
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Just curious how 100 FPGA:s are packed ;)
(or 50?)
Around 60 to a tray, then vac-packed in a silver bag.
I can't open them until production as they get damp (really)
/Mikej
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What a great news !
Could you make a video of the production run (like Gideon did for his 1541 Ultimate) ?
I'm fascinated by this robots :)
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What a great news !
Could you make a video of the production run (like Gideon did for his 1541 Ultimate) ?
I'm fascinated by this robots :)
I can ask.
The machine building them is a Siplace S27 chip shooter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDMGaSTbVpY&feature=youtu.be
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What a great news !
Could you make a video of the production run (like Gideon did for his 1541 Ultimate) ?
I'm fascinated by this robots :)
Yes Mike, what ever happend to the first video of the production is it lost?
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How much of the boards are finished on your side. All connectors and stuff, or is everything done at the plant so you get a 100% ready-to-power-up board in return ?
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I hand soldered the through hole connectors on the last batch.
All the SMD components are fitted by the assembler.
The problem is (on double sided boards) you need to mask off the bottom before you wave solder it. The components need to be hand fitted anyhow, so for the number I have on this board it's nearly as fast to do the whole thing by hand.
I don't fancy doing 500 though, the Chinese can solder them...
/Mike
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On the x68000 thing, some time ago i stumbled across a japanese page where it had text regarding fpga. It was a page about the x68000, but as i don't know read japanese i'm not sure if it's for a fpga core or an expansion thing. In that page there was talking about a 030 expansion and 060 boards.
Maybe someone who can read japanese can translate it.
When i found the link will post here for all to see.
P.D: Here is the link: http://xps.jp/060turboX/060turboX.html
The main page showing photos of a lattice based fpga i think: http://xps.jp/
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Thecrow, Interesting!
@MikeJ, How many boards are taken out those 50 ?
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On the x68000 thing, some time ago i stumbled across a japanese page where it had text regarding fpga. It was a page about the x68000, but as i don't know read japanese i'm not sure if it's for a fpga core or an expansion thing. In that page there was talking about a 030 expansion and 060 boards.
Maybe someone who can read japanese can translate it.
When i found the link will post here for all to see.
Unfortunately, the project was cancelled in 2007 due to the high cost and low availability of MC68060 processors: (courtesy of Google Translate)
Last year (December 2006) up to the time of the technical problems so far has been a challenge (PCB design =), but I was almost clear, concrete implementation (prototype-PCB) preparations PGA socket is the stage to perform (= MPU socket) or it is difficult to arrange, but now I get a very high bid MC68060RC50. At a price you can distribute to everyone as it is so because the price goes away, I somehow can not be resolved, I tried my hand was useless foam. Quantity ordered by a weak capital and we are still absolutely free to do so is to cut it.
MC68060 to drive, the passion and feelings in common with like-minded myself and everyone is there, the cost is infinite as a practical matter "it is impossible" is. In the heartbreak is only to seek a new way to solve it is there.
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Thecrow, Interesting!
@MikeJ, How many boards are taken out those 50 ?
+1.
I am also interested in hearing this, as I know of people who wants to buy if there are boards available of the current batch.
Espen
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Hi there - sorry to jump in like this but I've been interested in this FPGA board - and the thread is a bit too technical for me to follow. Anyway I was wondering...
1. When we can buy one (a ready to gone one, that is - no soldering involved!)
2. What will the price be (last I read somewhere was "much less than 200 euro").
3. What CPU speed and RAM will it have.
4. Will I be able to hook it up to a TV via HDMI, with audio coming out of the TV speakers.
Cheers :)
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Unfortunately, the project was cancelled in 2007 due to the high cost and low availability of MC68060 processors: (courtesy of Google Translate)
So how is that going to affect the 060 add on for the FPGA ?
Will people who are planning to get one (Like myself), have to play the sensitive game of trying to get the chip off of the Cyberstorm without cracking the socket ?
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1. When we can buy one (a ready to gone one, that is - no soldering involved!)
2. What will the price be (last I read somewhere was "much less than 200 euro").
3. What CPU speed and RAM will it have.
4. Will I be able to hook it up to a TV via HDMI, with audio coming out of the TV speakers.
1 - Pre-orders being taken this week possibly, delivery in 2-3 weeks. I'll update as soon as things are firm.
2 - 200Euro+VAT for this batch - subject to confirmation due to assembly cost.
3 - 64MByte RAM, CPU speed is being optimized at the moment. 30MHz, maybe much more.
4 - Yes, with a DVI to HDMI cable. For the audio you will need to run a separate cable from the 3.5mm jack to the RCA inputs on the TV.
Cheers,
Mike
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So how is that going to affect the 060 add on for the FPGA ?
Not at all. 68060 chips are still easy to get hold of.
/Mike
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Thanks for the reply mikej - one more thing, what form factor is the motherboard? (if it has a standard form factor :P)
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Thanks for the reply mikej - one more thing, what form factor is the motherboard? (if it has a standard form factor :P)
170mm x 80mm.
It's half ITX size, so it will fit in any ITX/ATX case and two holes that can line up do. All the connectors (apart from debug rs-232) are in the standard ATX IO window.
/Mike
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That's great. I'd really love to get one now but I am a bit short of cash (aren't we all). Guess will wait for the next run :)
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@mikej
If it's possible to hook it to a CRT TV with a RCA cable or SCART or any other cabling (could not find the specs at the FAQ or elsewhere at your webpage) please count me in for a pre-order.
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@mikej
If it's possible to hook it to a CRT TV with a RCA cable or SCART or any other cabling (could not find the specs at the FAQ or elsewhere at your webpage) please count me in for a pre-order.
Yes, you can use a DVI to analog VGA adapter then a "standard" VGA to SCART cable.
If you get the SVHS/Composite option you also have the choice of those outputs.
Note, these are only supported by the 488i,576i (ntsc/pal) standards.
/MikeJ
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4 - Yes, with a DVI to HDMI cable. For the audio you will need to run a separate cable from the 3.5mm jack to the RCA inputs on the TV.
is there any chance a future version will have audio over hdmi?
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This is an awesome project. Hopefully one day it will be something we can buy from stores such as AmigaKit and Vesalia :)
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is there any chance a future version will have audio over hdmi?
You could use something like this:
DVI & R/L Stereo Audio to HDMI Converter (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011405&p_id=8124&seq=1&format=2)
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74 dollars O_O
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Quantity 1 shows $36.74
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Ooops I saw the price on top :P
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You could use something like this:
DVI & R/L Stereo Audio to HDMI Converter (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011405&p_id=8124&seq=1&format=2)
That's a pretty interesting box, if anybody has one I would like to know what chip is inside it :)
I cannot fit a HDMI connector due to licensing issues, and I can't buy (legally at least) the chips which support HDMI as they have HDCP support - and you need to be a member of the cartel to use them. Future hardware is likely to support display port instead.
/MikeJ
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mikej I have a dreambox DM800 satellite receiver, and it has DVI connection, not HDMI, and yet it still outputs audio from the TV. Maybe you should look into that?
The receiver comes with a DVI to HDMI cable.
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I cannot fit a HDMI connector due to licensing issues, and I can't buy (legally at least) the chips which support HDMI as they have HDCP support - and you need to be a member of the cartel to use them. Future hardware is likely to support display port instead.
/MikeJ
I take it that means Displayport is not encumbered by a similar cartel?
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mikej I have a dreambox DM800 satellite receiver, and it has DVI connection, not HDMI, and yet it still outputs audio from the TV. Maybe you should look into that?
The receiver comes with a DVI to HDMI cable.
yes, there is nothing stopping you running HDMI protocol over DVI. The PHY chip I am using only supports DVI unfortunately, and I can't buy one which does what I want.
I am looking into building the whole thing into the FPGA...
/MikeJ
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From a Dreambox DM800 forum regarding audio on DVI (with DVI to HDMI cable):
"In the dm800, the audio has been routed to go through pins in the dvi lead to the hdmi cable. This is how come the audio is able to go through the dvi lead in the dm800. The box has been specifically designed to carry audio through the dvi cable. Nothing to do with the actual cable used, it's the box... "
Maybe the same thing can be done with FPGA Replay, that way we can keep using the much popular HDMI port.
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Yes, you can use a DVI to analog VGA adapter then a "standard" VGA to SCART cable.
If you get the SVHS/Composite option you also have the choice of those outputs.
Note, these are only supported by the 488i,576i (ntsc/pal) standards.
/MikeJ
The prices for the extra plugs seems ok, accordingly to Amazon: Pretty cheap for the DVI to VGA and also cheap for a VGA to SCART cable. I wonder how the final picture quality will be, but again I will not buy in the future any more CRT TV's.
In the meanwhile I took a better look and found the specs at http://www.fpgaarcade.com/dev/drupal/?q=node/5 . So the "SVHS/Composite" is really and option or does it come at the board as standard? Could not locate the P20 plug.
Anyway, count me in for a pre-order, as long the price keeps reasonable close to the €200+VAT.
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Just wondering.... is it able to set the Replay FPGA to output at 1080p reslution and then multiply the pixel output of the picture to the maximum resolution that would fit in the 1080p resolution? Extra pixels would be just black of course (border around the picture).
Not sure if I was clear :)
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I cannot fit a HDMI connector due to licensing issues, and I can't buy (legally at least) the chips which support HDMI as they have HDCP support - and you need to be a member of the cartel to use them. Future hardware is likely to support display port instead.
So you can go into a shop and buy them, but you can't sell something with one fitted?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/hdmi-connectors-217844
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@psxphill, Use chip, connector, or pcb-layout-option that supports HDMI and the media-maffia sues you.
(not sure about the pcb-pad option route! thoe)
However an FPGA that supports the electrical interface of HDMI (Xilinx rocketport?) might be a way to deal with it. The hardware will be ok. And the producer isn't (hopefully) liable for what users do with it.
The problem with DisplayPort is the amount of video displays that supports it. Especially those fairly priced.
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This is perhaps a little premature, but are there any firm plans for a second production run?
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yes, as soon as the first batch have been allocated.
/Mike
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That is cool. You probably have a feeling how many Replay board you can send (based on how much feedback you've received and pre-orders etc). Do you know if there are plan to have third party re-sellers aswell ? I think that now that the electronics is more or less done, the big thing is to make this Replay board into a kick-ass product (even better than it is now...if possible) by expanding the software side of it.
Have you had some talks with other Arcade dudes to use the Replay board inside pre-made Arcade boxes ?
I hope you can sell heaps of the board and make big bucks from it. That would be very very awesome. I for sure hope that the Amiga community can help out by buying as many boards as possible :)
It's a very natural upgrade from the current MInimig owners to go to the Replay board. It's the closest thing you can get to go from upgrading from A500 to A1200 :-)...only, it's WAY cooler and better :)
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The problem with DisplayPort is the amount of video displays that supports it. Especially those fairly priced.
What about display port output through displayport->hdmi adapter? Does the chip need to support hdmi for such adapters to work, or does the adapter do everything itself and the chip is ignorant of hdmi?
Though the hdmi cartel is suing people that make displayport->hdmi cables, licsinsing doe snto allow adapter combined into cable, only allows a dongle with separate cable. Dumb, but that's what cartels are for...
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We went through HDMI licensing for a few of our products. It's a severe pain to deal with but we had to have it.
Copy protection wasn't even an issue since we are outputting only unprotected video. The issue was being compliant with the signal spec and proper detection and communication with attached devices, both video and audio.
I'm not sure that your board could actually qualify since it's intended to be user reprogramable. They are very strict on every little detail and the user could easily make it non-compliant.
IMHO it would just drive up the price of FPGA Replay for very little benefit.
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The problem with DisplayPort is the amount of video displays that supports it. Especially those fairly priced.
As display port has basically bombed, they might not want to rock the boat but:
DisplayPort is currently royalty free, while the HDMI royalty is 4 cents per device and has an annual fee of $10,000 for high volume manufacturers.[26] HDMI Licensing LLC claims that, like HDMI, the DisplayPort specification allows for compensation from implementers to unspecified rights holders.[27]
I guess the problem actually comes from trademarks:
"Prior to mass producing or distributing any Licensed Product or component that claims compliance with the HDMI Specification (or allowing someone else to do such activities), each Adopter must test a representative sample for HDMI compliance"
So in theory if you don't claim it's compatible with the HDMI specification then you don't need to test it. There must be ways round it, because from the way it's written then even saying it's compliant with HDMI using a DVI to HDMI adapter would be a problem.
edit... It looks like DisplayPort to HDMI cables are under fire.... http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/08/minidisplay-port-to-hdmi-cables-unlicensed-and-cannot-be-sold/, hopefully someone will sue hdmi and sort out the mess.
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I hope China FL00DS the market with DisplayPort -> HDMI adapters. Intellectual property doesn't score high in that county I read. That is they have to catch the packets in the customs because IP-suing isn't going anywhere in that country.
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How about MHL (Mobile High-definition Link) through microUSB? My EVO 3D cellphone has it. They (legally) sell adapters that output HDMI 1080p/7.1 plus the spec provides power from the display (or adapter). It uses a microUSB 4-wire port to do all that. I suppose there's a chip to buy but you don't have to put HDMI compliance on the box. Their website seems to have completely forgotten the acronym HDMI and it seems like cost of entry is cheap(er). Perhaps they don't want to pay the cartel.
MikeJ, check this link out: http://www.mhlconsortium.org/adopters/adopter_information.aspx
...Although I'm sure you're familiar with the spec already. Looks like they'd like to get some more little gadgets on board that hook up to TV sets via MHL. In the application form they have a check box for "Home game console" which I think is what you should tick :)
Can't wait. Buona fortuna!
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...Although I'm sure you're familiar with the spec already. Looks like they'd like to get some more little gadgets on board that hook up to TV sets via MHL. In the application form they have a check box for "Home game console" which I think is what you should tick :)
Wow, a standard that makes sense. I didn't see that coming.
http://www.engineeringtv.com/video/MHL-Consortium-HD-interface;CES-2011
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MHL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-definition_Link) might be workable IF:
* MHL to HDMI adapters are cheap enough (remember DVI is very straightforward!)
* MHL is open and free
* Chips implementing the TMDS interface can be bought in <100 qty for a fair price.
The alternative is to have an option board that turns DVI + S/P-dif or I2S etc.. into a combined HDMI signal. Ofcourse only the schematic, pcb layout, component list can be shared officially.
As for the 68060 additional board. I hope it will be fitted with a connector to make it possible to stack additional cards. Ie base fpga arcade + addon 68060 board + addon fpga booster + other..
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MHL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_High-definition_Link) might be workable IF:
* MHL to HDMI adapters are cheap enough (remember DVI is very straightforward!)
* MHL is open and free
* Chips implementing the TMDS interface can be bought in <100 qty for a fair price.
- I paid $40 retail for my MHL MicroUSB>HDMI adapter. They're $20 on Amazon.
- MHL doesn't look so open or free. Maybe just cheaper. :( You have to pay $100 just to look at the draft specs. But I don't know how much it costs to actually implement it or license it. It looks like there's a deal to be struck there.
- The chips are always cheap. The royalties are what you have to worry about.
The MHL spec calls for 1080p + 7.1 plus inbound power and remote control abilities over a standard USB cable.. Eventually it will be available on a lot of TV sets as the connectors are everywhere and cheap (unlike HDMI), being bog standard USB plugs. More and more people use smartphones, and the CTIA (cell phone cartel) set the standard for all new cell phones (Except a certain fruity phone who shall remain iNameless) to have a microUSB 2.0 port for power and sync to make interconnection with peripherals easier. So if all cell phones have that connection, make a spec that will use it and poof... no barrier to entry. The phone manufacturer doesn't have to put a special connector on their already crowded device (driving build costs up, a no-no), and they get to have HD Video out.
As for the 68060 additional board. I hope it will be fitted with a connector to make it possible to stack additional cards. Ie base fpga arcade + addon 68060 board + addon fpga booster + other..
MMMM stacking expansion boards... The only thing that would make that more delicious would be some cheese on top. And maybe some chocolate.
SO how long until someone builds a mediator-type bus board for the Arcade Replay?
You have no idea what you've started Mike :)
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DVI does the job just as well. We feed audio separately instead and that should be good enough :) We are used to compromises from the Commodore world, so HDMI or not...we don't need no stinkin' HDMI :) :) :)
Yet, having all in one single cable is of course very nice, but I would gues that it's possible to get a DVI2HDMI adapter which ALSO has a little jack-plug on it so you can feed the adaper with audio that is then carried on thru the hdmi cable to the TV.
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Yet, having all in one single cable is of course very nice, but I would gues that it's possible to get a DVI2HDMI adapter which ALSO has a little jack-plug on it so you can feed the adaper with audio that is then carried on thru the hdmi cable to the TV.
I don't think it's that easy as hdmi uses digital audio & the person that makes the cable will have to pay the license fee.
I'm sure not paying this much for it.
http://www.futureshop.co.uk/atlona-dvi-with-analogdigital-audio-to-hdmi-converter-and-embedder-p-4338.html
I don't think my tv can take analogue audio when it's displaying hdmi. So it is a bit of a compromise.
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No S/P-dif output on the board !?
(or any other digital audio)
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I set my controls for the heart of the amplifier instead, and not the (so often) crappy internal speakers of monitors :)
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Digital output is still desirable. But can I agree most TV speakers sucks big time.
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Lets add a electrical RCA SPDIF digial output then on the daughter board.
I'll also add it to the core at some point, so you can wire it off the patch pins on the base card to an RCA panel mount connector with signal + ground pair. It will not meet the correct drive specs, but should work fine.
Best,
Mike
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S/P-dif is the right direction. But even that interface suck. HDMI at least has some error protection for its sound transport.
If the S/P-dif port packet data can be modified to use CRC or similar it would useful for external FPGA/CPLD based adapters.
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S/P-dif is the right direction. But even that interface suck. HDMI at least has some error protection for its sound transport.
If the S/P-dif port packet data can be modified to use CRC or similar it would useful for external FPGA/CPLD based adapters.
It has parity so a receiver can tell you if it's getting errors.
Embedded audio does have ECC but I haven't seen any hardware which bothers to do the correction.
Generally a link will work perfectly or not at all... at audio rates over short distances it should be pretty robust.
/MikeJ
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Forget digital output - any idea if it's possible to build a cable to connect a 1084S to the DVI port? Apologies if that's a stupid question but some days I just need to sit in front of a 1084S.
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Forget digital output - any idea if it's possible to build a cable to connect a 1084S to the DVI port? Apologies if that's a stupid question but some days I just need to sit in front of a 1084S.
Sure - you use the RGB TV out mode here, with a DVI to VGA adapter.
I output composite sync on H sync and a logic high on V sync for Scart switching.
Then use a VGA to Scart or VGA to 9 pin D cable. I do this here.
/MikeJ
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Sure - you use the RGB TV out mode here, with a DVI to VGA adapter.
I output composite sync on H sync and a logic high on V sync for Scart switching.
Then use a VGA to Scart or VGA to 9 pin D cable. I do this here.
/MikeJ
Great. Cheers Mike.
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Proberbly better signal/noise ratio with a direct DVI to SCART cable ;)
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Proberbly better signal/noise ratio with a direct DVI to SCART cable ;)
Good luck finding such a cable! Failing that, you can't go very wrong buying one of my VGA to SCART cables ;)
I've supplied quite a few such cables for the Minimig in the past. Incidentally, as per mikej's post, these work also for the Replay if you use a DVI to VGA converter. I have a couple handfuls of the new model cable left if anyone's interested in good old analogue video.
Cheers!
Edwin
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I've got a 1084S-P and a 1085. Neither of which have SCART. Gutted.
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I've got a 1084S-P and a 1085. Neither of which have SCART. Gutted.
I built a SCART to 1084 converter, it's not that hard.
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Good luck finding such a cable! Failing that, you can't go very wrong buying one of my VGA to SCART cables ;)
Finding?.. Make! :P :D
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So is it possible to buy this board? Almost thinking about buying a minimig as the price seems reasonable, but if I can get my hands on a replay it might be a better option :-)
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Yeah, would this be available before X-mas time? Hope I'm still on "the list" Mike. Gonna be great 68K Amiga solution.
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He proberbly awaits a production time slot from the assembler while doing other things @ work ;)
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Apologies for taking the thread in another direction but how feasible would it be to build a daughter board with Catweasel type functionality (and maybe a C64 disk port and for the hell of it, a c2n port)? Before anybody suggests 'why dont you do it' I cant even spell FPGA without giving it a huge amount of thought.
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Apologies for taking the thread in another direction but how feasible would it be to build a daughter board with Catweasel type functionality (and maybe a C64 disk port and for the hell of it, a c2n port)? Before anybody suggests 'why dont you do it' I cant even spell FPGA without giving it a huge amount of thought.
Learn it. :p
Presumably it's doable, but how it would be done is in question until we learn more about the expension port and if it's passed through the 68060 board from Yaqube or not.
Are there enough pins on this expansion port to do floppy port directly in the motherboard FPGA? Dunno. If not, then need an addon board with another FPGA or CPLD or or Xcore or something to bridge between the expansion port and whatever you imagine connecting to it, floppy or c2n (whatever that is) in your case.
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Are there enough pins on this expansion port to do floppy port directly in the motherboard FPGA? Dunno. If not, then need an addon board with another FPGA or CPLD or or Xcore or something to bridge between the expansion port and whatever you imagine connecting to it, floppy or c2n (whatever that is) in your case.
The FPGA Arcade (and proberbly Minimig too) have generic I/O pads which can be used directly with a using a few voltage level converters. And the usual power supply.
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The FPGA Arcade (and proberbly Minimig too) have generic I/O pads which can be used directly with a using a few voltage level converters. And the usual power supply.
Yes, but how many?
And do they pass through the 68060 board for others to use as well or do they not?
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Read the schematics and check out the pictures.
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Read the schematics and check out the pictures.
OK, I didn't realize they were avaiable. best I've seen is a still kindof vague description here
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/dev/drupal/?q=node/5
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The /dev/drupal is a development site, please use the main page for now.
The schematics are a few posts down.
Im having some trouble getting commitment from my assembler. I'm talking to another guy, but what will probably happen is I'll take the parts back to China on Tuesday next week and drop them off with the company which is doing the volume production.
This will actually speed up the volume deployment, but is more risky as I wanted to test the boards before paying for the set up and production stencils (which is kinda expensive).
Either way, I will have boards available by the end of the month.
The 68060 board is still being defined, although the prototype is running well.
It is unlikely to have pass-through connectors for SI reasons, but there are other IO pins on the main board which can be used. I will add a breakout connector for any spare pins.
/MikeJ
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cool news mikej, so do you think we will have some fpga boards before xmas or not sure yet?
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we will have some boards 1st week October.
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we will have some boards 1st week October.
Great news Mike!
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I love this project because you get:
1. real information
2. developer feedback from consumer input
3. they use Drupal
4. updates on production, with realistic timelines
5. less hype more real...
6. Did I mention it's real?
:hammer:
Are you gonna hook up UberCart and sell & ship through that ?
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I'll take the parts back to China on Tuesday next week and drop them off with the company which is doing the volume production.
This will actually speed up the volume deployment, but is more risky as I wanted to test the boards before paying for the set up and production stencils (which is kinda expensive).
That bad with assemblers nearby?
Otherwise try at least to get one express mailed back for verification. And send som test-jig so the manufacturer can verify.Though anything "Chinese" should be heavily quality controlled ;)
I just hope you don't end up with a few hundred circuit boards that can't even be repaired.
The 68060 board is still being defined, although the prototype is running well. It is unlikely to have pass-through connectors for SI reasons
Use some daisy chained method instead?
6. Did I mention it's real?
It's real? I thought we all lived in the McEwen matrix.. ;)
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"That bad with assemblers nearby?
Otherwise try at least to get one express mailed back for verification. And send som test-jig so the manufacturer can verify.Though anything "Chinese" should be heavily quality controlled ;)"
They will build the boards while I'm out there, and I will bring them back with me.
I can repair most build errors with the rework equipment I have here, but the assembly is normally pretty reliable.
Best,
/MikeJ
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Complex resoldering of 50+ boards can be a pain ;)
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The /dev/drupal is a development site, please use the main page for now.
The schematics are a few posts down.
Im having some trouble getting commitment from my assembler. I'm talking to another guy, but what will probably happen is I'll take the parts back to China on Tuesday next week and drop them off with the company which is doing the volume production.
This will actually speed up the volume deployment, but is more risky as I wanted to test the boards before paying for the set up and production stencils (which is kinda expensive).
Either way, I will have boards available by the end of the month.
The 68060 board is still being defined, although the prototype is running well.
It is unlikely to have pass-through connectors for SI reasons, but there are other IO pins on the main board which can be used. I will add a breakout connector for any spare pins.
/MikeJ
Great news Mike. What an exciting project.:)
Mike
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I love this project because you get:
1. real information
2. developer feedback from consumer input
3. they use Drupal
4. updates on production, with realistic timelines
5. less hype more real...
6. Did I mention it's real?
:hammer:
Are you gonna hook up UberCart and sell & ship through that ?
As much as I don't like drupal (but in this case i don't give a damn) you a re dead right. Nice to see such a great communication between users and developers.
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Exciting times Mike. Am looking forward to handing over some money for such a worthy interesting project.
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"Complex resoldering of 50+ boards can be a pain"
I can imagine. How many boards are being made? I can imagine he'd sell a few thousand over time. At least!
I sure want one of these to replace my now 6 month dead A1200.
Steven
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MikeJ has just given me permission to mention that I will be displaying the FPGA Arcade Replay Board at my table during the AmiWest 2011 Show, Oct. 21st to 23rd in Sacramento, CA.
This makes me very happy to know that I will have my board soon (or if worst case happens, MikeJ will lend me his personal board for the show). I will have hand-outs to distribute to interested show attendees and have the board connected to a monitor to show it running several Amiga programs and/or games. This will be in addition to my display of my MorphOS2.x computers running the latest version and Acill displaying his iPhone running AmigaOS3.x. Going to be another great AmiWest Show!
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Just inked the deal with the manufacturing company. Stencil production has started.
/MikeJ
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Just inked the deal with the manufacturing company. Stencil production has started.
/MikeJ
Champagne !
I'm sure there will be many more.
No doubt, when I read stuff like "Simply plug in our JAMMA connector expansion board, and you have a drop-in arcade board replacement."
Also, The new look of the website is really great !
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Awesome news MikeJ.
Thank you for the constant updates /cheer
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Just inked the deal with the manufacturing company. Stencil production has started.
/MikeJ
Whoo Hoo, Congratulations Mr. MikeJ
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I love this project because you get:
1. real information
2. developer feedback from consumer input
3. they use Drupal
4. updates on production, with realistic timelines
5. less hype more real...
6. Did I mention it's real?
:hammer:
Are you gonna hook up UberCart and sell & ship through that ?
I totally aggree with you there. Especially on #2 above. Mike actually took time to call me about an issue with 15kHz a few week back. That is what I call kick ass customer support :-) This is what's so cool about the Commodore-world...everybody cares :-)
Thumbs up to Mike and Yaqube. They do fantastic work!
@Mike -- yes, the Slay.org party was nice. I have never played pool for 7 hours straight before while listening to retromusic :-)
Espen
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I hope they have enough capacity for us :)
/MikeJ
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I hope they have enough capacity for us :)
/MikeJ
OMG! It's the C=USA office in Florida! :eek:
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C= Office?
Commodore resurrected? ;)
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I am pretty sure they do not pay those people a fortune to assemble things...yet the asian assemblers make the world go around :)
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We have hardware, boards delivered to my sticky hands.
We had a meeting to discuss the next larger run, all the setup work for volume manufacture is now in place.
I'll will take these first 44 home and test next week. I'll start taking orders for these shortly when I know how many are working.
Cheers,
MikeJ
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Awesome Mike!!! Thanks for the wonderful news! \o/
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Congrats MikeJ,
I hope all boards are okey for you :-)
Bring out the beer guy's, more classic super amiga's have been born (LOL)
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Here's an idea: Manually label them with the serial number. It's cool :)
Just wondering, the card I got. Do you remember which serial# it is ?
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Here's an idea: Manually label them with the serial number. It's cool :)
Just wondering, the card I got. Do you remember which serial# it is ?
There was a picture somewhere of the new replayboards with a white label on it for serial numbers espen ;-)
edit: Here it is (LOL) http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/replay_b02_back.jpg
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We have hardware, boards delivered to my sticky hands.
We had a meeting to discuss the next larger run, all the setup work for volume manufacture is now in place.
I'll will take these first 44 home and test next week. I'll start taking orders for these shortly when I know how many are working.
Cheers,
MikeJ
Well done Mike! Do you gonna consider emails we were sending few months ago asking to be on the list to get that lovely machine or do we need to sign up again?
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We have hardware, boards delivered to my sticky hands.
We had a meeting to discuss the next larger run, all the setup work for volume manufacture is now in place.
I'll will take these first 44 home and test next week. I'll start taking orders for these shortly when I know how many are working.
Cheers,
MikeJ
Excellent. Good work Mike.
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Here's an idea: Manually label them with the serial number. It's cool :)
Just wondering, the card I got. Do you remember which serial# it is ?
Yup - it's B01-ESPSKOG :)
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Yup - it's B01-ESPSKOG :)
So mine is "B01 - DARRIN"? Always nice to know. :D
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How much are these going to be Mike? Please let us all know!
Steven
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Looks like mine is "B01 - WIZARD66" (must be in the name or something LOL)
So mine is "B01 - DARRIN"? Always nice to know. :D
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Just as I was promising myself to spend less money on electronic gadgets....
Oh well, will have to break that promise.
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Nice!!
I asked a while back to be on your list. Since I do not post a lot here, not sure I was included.
I have money to burn and I do not currently own my Amiga 1200 (or any amiga) anymore(I killed it in 1999 trying to put it in a tower *sad*), so please add me...thanks!!
Jason
ps - I keep getting upset thinking about my 1200...I forgot to save my mongoose 030 board.
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A PSU question just got me thinking. How much mean and peak power does the FPGA Replay use?
-
Mike,
What will be the price for the production replay boards?
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I hope they have enough capacity for us :)
/MikeJ
Sweet, the Umpaloompahs are really hard at work here, just in time for X-mas.
:)
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There was a picture somewhere of the new replayboards with a white label on it for serial numbers espen ;-)
edit: Here it is (LOL) http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/replay_b02_back.jpg
Cool :)
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Yup - it's B01-ESPSKOG :)
I can live with that :D
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I put a quick snap of 16 of the new boards on the website.
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
/MikeJ
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OMG this is such a lovely pr0n show!!! Gief one now!!! :D
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Can't wait to order!
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WHo'll be the happy owner of post #1000 on this thread ? Maybe that person can get a prize ? Like...maybe a replay board with 10% off ? hehe...that'd be kewl.
This thread has already 100.000+ viewing and no almost 1000 posts. That is quite cool.
One can pretty much draw the conclusion that the fpga-replay board really has got some attention in this forum, for sure.
Now -- we just need more juicy details on the daughterboard. Some pics, specs ...hell, i'll take black&white printouts if necessary ;)
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I put a quick snap of 16 of the new boards on the website.
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
Is that plastic anti-static ?
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Hi Mike, I'm interested in one board and also in the daughter board when it be available.
Regards
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I put a quick snap of 16 of the new boards on the website.
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
Is that plastic anti-static ?
Yes, in general the pink-stuff is anti-static.
/Mike
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WHo'll be the happy owner of post #1000 on this thread ? Maybe that person can get a prize ? Like...maybe a replay board with 10% off ? hehe...that'd be kewl.
This thread has already 100.000+ viewing and no almost 1000 posts. That is quite cool.
One can pretty much draw the conclusion that the fpga-replay board really has got some attention in this forum, for sure.
Now -- we just need more juicy details on the daughterboard. Some pics, specs ...hell, i'll take black&white printouts if necessary ;)
ME! :mickeymouse:
What an achievement! Like anyone in my position i am proud and i am tired....
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I want one!!! :)
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I put a quick snap of 16 of the new boards on the website.
www.fpgaarcade.com (http://www.fpgaarcade.com)
/MikeJ
I hope you have more then 16...
What would be the process to buy it? Are all the boards from first batch spoken for? What's the final price? ships from where? Too many questions.
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I hope you have more then 16...
What would be the process to buy it? Are all the boards from first batch spoken for? What's the final price? ships from where? Too many questions.
Anybody who'd read this thread would probably know that about 200 people have already indicated some months ago that they wanted a board. But Mike won't confirm who is "on the list" so we get another hundred odd posts of people having to ask if they are "on the list".
Come on Mike, publish the list or at least email people to tell them what number they are on the list ;)
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Anybody who'd read this thread would probably know that about 200 people have already indicated some months ago that they wanted a board. But Mike won't confirm who is "on the list" so we get another hundred odd posts of people having to ask if they are "on the list".
Come on Mike, publish the list or at least email people to tell them what number they are on the list ;)
I have around 42 boards available. I am not sure how many are working yet.
I also want to make sure the software/firmware is completely ready - it isn't yet but it's good enough for techy people who are happy to do future upgrades.
I have a list of people who have expressed an interest.
I'll start emailing people shortly - in the order people expressed an interest - and see who actually wants one.
I realize it is frustrating, and it is taking too long.
The good news is these were made at a volume factory in China, so I can order more at any point now.
Cheers,
MikeJ
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The changes to b02 over b01 have been verified.
You can plug the DVI connector in at the same time as the audio.
The board powers off correctly even when back-powered from the TV.
Audio, DVI, Analog, Composite (with selectable luma trap), SVHS are all performing very well - in fact the analog picture and sound quality are excellent.
Memory testing on-going....
/MikeJ
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I realize it is frustrating, and it is taking too long.
I think we should all be impressed at one person doing all of this. I've had lots of ideas I've never been able to bring to completion, I wish I could finish something like you, regardless of how long.
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I realize it is frustrating, and it is taking too long.
In comparision with other projects this one is at lightning speed. And there is actually hardware to deliver.
-
The changes to b02 over b01 have been verified.
You can plug the DVI connector in at the same time as the audio.
The board powers off correctly even when back-powered from the TV.
Audio, DVI, Analog, Composite (with selectable luma trap), SVHS are all performing very well - in fact the analog picture and sound quality are excellent.
Memory testing on-going....
/MikeJ
Excellent news Mike! Can't wait!
Back-powered? Can the TV supply power to the board over HDMI/DVI so we don't need a separate power brick?
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I have around 42 boards available. I am not sure how many are working yet.
I also want to make sure the software/firmware is completely ready - it isn't yet but it's good enough for techy people who are happy to do future upgrades.
I have a list of people who have expressed an interest.
I'll start emailing people shortly - in the order people expressed an interest - and see who actually wants one.
Please put me down for at least one.
-
I wonder what Mick Tinker is thinking about all this....
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Excellent news Mike! Can't wait!
Back-powered? Can the TV supply power to the board over HDMI/DVI so we don't need a separate power brick?
Actually pretty much so, but by accident. The Chrontel DAC has, what I would consider a bug, in that the DVI termination voltage can pass back through the DAC and keep the 3.3V supply alive enough such that the card does not power down.
I have fixed it now.
/MikeJ
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He probably doesn't even know this project exists and is therefore thinking absolutley nothing of it.
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Anyone who is not sure about purchasing an FPGA Arcade Replay Board yet and wants to see one running first should attend the AmiWest 2011 Show in a bit over 2 weeks, as I will have one running at my display table at the show.
-
The changes to b02 over b01 have been verified.
You can plug the DVI connector in at the same time as the audio.
The board powers off correctly even when back-powered from the TV.
Audio, DVI, Analog, Composite (with selectable luma trap), SVHS are all performing very well - in fact the analog picture and sound quality are excellent.
Memory testing on-going....
Nice!!!
Which steps are needed to make my B01 a B02 (apart from the audioconnector which is ok since you moved it a few clicks to the right already), and can they be done by ourselves or will they require some new parts ?
Espen
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Anyone who is not sure about purchasing an FPGA Arcade Replay Board yet and wants to see one running first should attend the AmiWest 2011 Show in a bit over 2 weeks, as I will have one running at my display table at the show.
Cool. You got hold of one from Mike already ? That's pretty quick :)
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Nice!!!
Which steps are needed to make my B01 a B02 (apart from the audioconnector which is ok since you moved it a few clicks to the right already), and can they be done by ourselves or will they require some new parts ?
Espen
None, the boards are completely compatible for firmware.
The only difference is the luma trap on composite out is driven from an extra line on the ARM controller (so turning it off will have no affect on B1). The trap can be disabled by removing a component if required.
The power-on control has been improved, but this is only an issue when you use DVI later.
All the other changes are layout related to improve production.
Best,
Mike
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All the other changes are layout related to improve production.
Any list of such changes? (curious ;) )
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None, the boards are completely compatible for firmware.
When will the new firmware be available for download ?
The only difference is the luma trap on composite out is driven from an extra line on the ARM controller (so turning it off will have no affect on B1). The trap can be disabled by removing a component if required.
What will the lumatrap do for the image if I disable it ?
The power-on control has been improved, but this is only an issue when you use DVI later.
My board tends to now power-off when i physically switch it off with the on/off switch. As this is not a problem for me, I am just curious what the cause is and what the fix was on the B02 board to handle it.
//Espen
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When will the new firmware be available for download ?
>> when it works...
What will the lumatrap do for the image if I disable it ?
>> For composite only, disabling luma trap can give slightly sharper picture but at risk of additional color distortion.
My board tends to now power-off when i physically switch it off with the on/off switch. As this is not a problem for me, I am just curious what the cause is and what the fix was on the B02 board to handle it.
> backfeed from DVI receiver through DAC to 3V3 supply rail. Addition of reset generator from main 5V supply line feeding DCDC enable.
/Mike
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Not sure if you received my PM, and not sure the correct place to request added to the list. But I would like to be if possible.
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It looks like I can hit the pricing I wanted for these boards.
The base option (no SVHS/Composite) will be 199Euro and with SVHS/Composite is 219 Euro.
Including VAT the price will be 249Euro and 274Euro for this batch.
It is possible the price of any future run will be ~20 Euro lower - that's what volume does.
My VAT registration is not complete yet, and I have paid VAT on components and assembly, so I need to charge the VAT inclusive price even to US customers for these "samples".
I am not ready to collect cash just yet ;)
/MikeJ
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When you are ready let me know. I have a Fortus 3d rapid production printer and can design and print out custoe cases for this in ABS plastic.
I think it's just going to make more sense to fit this thin into an ITX case somehow but we will see.
The moment this thing is available I'll be in there like swimwear!
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Nice! Exactly what I had in mind :)
Thanks for the update Mike. Can't wait \o/
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The base option (no SVHS/Composite) will be 199 Euro and with SVHS/Composite is 219 Euro.
Including VAT the price will be 249Euro and 274Euro for this batch.
It is possible the price of any future run will be ~20 Euro lower - that's what volume does.
My VAT registration is not complete yet, and I have paid VAT on components and assembly, so I need to charge the VAT inclusive price even to US customers for these "samples".
So this means that when the VAT registration completes you can charge 199 EUR ?
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The price is right! This is so cool. We have all watched this thread for some time and look what's happening. Congrats to your team MikeJ
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Cool. You got hold of one from Mike already ? That's pretty quick :)
No, but he has confirmed that he will be shipping it any time now and I have no doubt that it will arrive in time to take to the AmiWest 2011 Show with me.
Since I have a flip-down video screen in the back seat of my car that also has composite and audio inputs in the rear of the center console next to an electrical outlet fed by an inverter to provide a small amount of 120 volt A/C power, I will be able to use the FPGA Arcade Replay board inside the car while someone else is driving to and from the AmiWest 2011 Show.
Amiga gaming fun from the back seat at 70mph should be a fun change from looking at the boring freeway traffic!
Thanks Mike for making this all possible. The Replay board is a great step forward for Amiga FPGA computing. I can't hardly wait for the daughter board to be ready for production and sale.
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No, but he has confirmed that he will be shipping it any time now and I have no doubt that it will arrive in time to take to the AmiWest 2011 Show with me.
Maybe UPS can be fast enough?, at least they deliver overseas from USA to Europe in 1-2 days. For a price thoe ;)
Or if you know someone that will fly from the place where mikej lives to USA and bring it in a briefcase, it might be possible to make it?
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No, but he has confirmed that he will be shipping it any time now and I have no doubt that it will arrive in time to take to the AmiWest 2011 Show with me.
I shipped it yesterday, standard mail but should arrive in 5 days they said.
/MikeJ
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me too!!!!!!!
I want one!!
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You know, this project has not received much front page news love here at the .org . I'm cool with that, as I already praised the less hype characteristic of this project.
But there should be some thunder when the time is right...
Just sayin....
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You know, this project has not received much front page news love here at the .org . I'm cool with that, as I already praised the less hype characteristic of this project.
But there should be some thunder when the time is right...
Just sayin....
I don't know about "Thunder", but I will be giving it some praise and play time at my display table at the AmiWest 2011 Show, so hopefully it will get some of the attention it deserves.
The product I think has gotten very little attention is the Chameleon from Individual Computers. I almost never see any discussions about it on the forums. I don't know if that is because very few of them were sold, or for some other reason. Jens keeps development pretty close to his vest and I don't know who else is working on the Chameleon firmware updates with or for Jens (or who did the hardware design for Jens, was it Jerry "what's-her-name"?), but I think it is strange that we don't hear more about it. I guess we also don't hear much about the original v1.1 MiniMig these days, so maybe it is just because the product is complete and there are not many problems or improvements to talk about, that there is no discussion about them anymore.
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I don't know about "Thunder", but I will be giving it some praise and play time at my display table at the AmiWest 2011 Show, so hopefully it will get some of the attention it deserves.
The product I think has gotten very little attention is the Chameleon from Individual Computers. I almost never see any discussions about it on the forums. I don't know if that is because very few of them were sold, or for some other reason. Jens keeps development pretty close to his vest and I don't know who else is working on the Chameleon firmware updates with or for Jens (or who did the hardware design for Jens, was it Jerry "what's-her-name"?), but I think it is strange that we don't hear more about it. I guess we also don't hear much about the original v1.1 MiniMig these days, so maybe it is just because the product is complete and there are not many problems or improvements to talk about, that there is no discussion about them anymore.
The Yahoo group is very active and I get a bunch of emails every day as people discuss and test each new core and various software.
The current core is still beta and is 6g.
It is certainly a great product for people who don't mind reflashing it when updates arrive, but I think Jens is just keeping everything quiet until he has a core that he believes will satisfy the everyday customer. Rather like MikeJ with the FPGA Arcade.
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The Yahoo group is very active and I get a bunch of emails every day as people discuss and test each new core and various software.
The current core is still beta and is 6g.
It is certainly a great product for people who don't mind reflashing it when updates arrive, but I think Jens is just keeping everything quiet until he has a core that he believes will satisfy the everyday customer. Rather like MikeJ with the FPGA Arcade.
I have a friend that has a Chameleon and another that has an MCC-216, but have never seen anyone put together a review comparing all FPGA based systems with each other. It would be interesting to see in which ways they are the same, or similar and which features are different on each of these systems.
I have not kept up with the features of the Chameleon, MCC-216, Natami, or expanded v1.1 MiniMig. I think MikeJ has done a better job of keeping most of us Amiga users up to date with the progress of his work and the work of Yaqube, than some of the other system designers have done with their offerings. Although the Natami Team seems to be very active on their forum, not as much of that info spills over to sites like this one. The same is probably true for the Chameleon and MCC-216 on their own sites.
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I have a friend that has a Chameleon and another that has an MCC-216, but have never seen anyone put together a review comparing all FPGA based systems with each other. It would be interesting to see in which ways they are the same, or similar and which features are different on each of these systems.
I have not kept up with the features of the Chameleon, MCC-216, Natami, or expanded v1.1 MiniMig. I think MikeJ has done a better job of keeping most of us Amiga users up to date with the progress of his work and the work of Yaqube, than some of the other system designers have done with their offerings. Although the Natami Team seems to be very active on their forum, not as much of that info spills over to sites like this one. The same is probably true for the Chameleon and MCC-216 on their own sites.
I did actually start a thread here with the intention of comparing the same software running on the Minimig v1.1, Chameleon and FPGA Arcade (obviously the FPGA would test AGA versions where available). There didn't seem to be much interest and I got very busy with work so I shelved it (plus I was expecting a core update for the FPGA Arcade so it seemed to make sense to wait).
Here's all 3 machines running ClassicWB:
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/SDC10981s.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/SDC10984s.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/SDC10985s.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/SDC10983s.jpg)
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The Minimig v1.1 is built into the black keyboard on the far left. You should just to able to make out the yellow Chameleon cartridge sticking out of the cartridge port expander on the back of the C64C and the FPGA Arcade is that tiny board to the left of the keyboard on the right.
Another problem with testing is that the Chameleon Minimig core doesn't recognise the joystick ports on the C64 (yet). The IR controller is supposed to work if I use a CDTV remote as a joystick, but I don't have one. My only option was to use the keypad on a PS2 keyboard as a joystick.
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I hope the FPGA Arcade can do better with the update. If it's the 68020 enhancements slowing it down, then it would be hard to imagine the Natami N68k achieving 68060 performance.
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Natami N68k is a whole another ballgame. It's done in AHDL which is more specialized for the FPGA they use at the price of flexibility and portability. There's likely more people working on the core as the current FPGA Arcade source is closed in practice atm. It's also that the original source is an 68000 in a hardware description language (HDL), which has then been modified into a 68020 core.
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The Minimig v1.1 is built into the black keyboard on the far left. You should just to able to make out the yellow Chameleon cartridge sticking out of the cartridge port expander on the back of the C64C and the FPGA Arcade is that tiny board to the left of the keyboard on the right.
Another problem with testing is that the Chameleon Minimig core doesn't recognise the joystick ports on the C64 (yet). The IR controller is supposed to work if I use a CDTV remote as a joystick, but I don't have one. My only option was to use the keypad on a PS2 keyboard as a joystick.
I think AmigaKit still has a ton of brand new CDTV remote controllers for sale.
I for one am interested in testing comparisons of your three FPGA based Amiga computers, so I hope you will find time to renew your interest in testing and reviewing them for the rest of us. You can always update the results for the FPGA Arcade Replay board after you get the next firmware update. That will also show how much improvement has been made between the firmware you have now, and the next version.
I should have my own Replay board within the next few days. I can hardly wait to get it and test it out.
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I hope the FPGA Arcade can do better with the update. If it's the 68020 enhancements slowing it down, then it would be hard to imagine the Natami N68k achieving 68060 performance.
The cache and prefetch must be disabled in the current core. This is what is hurting performance, not the cpu extensions. The new memory controller and cache system does a lot better.
/MikeJ
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The cache and prefetch must be disabled in the current core. This is what is hurting performance, not the cpu extensions. The new memory controller and cache system does a lot better.
/MikeJ
That should make a HUGE difference in performance. Maybe up to a 68030@50MHz? The fpga CPU isn't really pipelined is it? How big of cache? Is the branch logic like the 68020/68030 or the better 68040/68060/CF where branches backward are predicted taken and branches forward are assumed not taken. The latter provides much improved performance, especially on loops. The latter is what the N68k CPU will use also. I suggested the least significant bit of branches (no odd branch targets) be used to reverse this logic. It would make for prettier, more compact code, easier design for compilers, and easier branch optimization that could for example, change 68020/68030 branches to the newer style. A setting could allow this bit in the instruction to be inverted on the fly as the code is executed. Please consider cooperating with the Natami team to create standard ISA enhancements to the 68k after you have the fpga Arcade soft CPU working better ;).
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How big of cache?
The amount of SRAM in a FPGA is quite limited. So maybe a "real" cache should be built with off-chip SRAM. But..
Earlier results (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39806&pp=15&page=61) show 256 byte instruction- and data cache improves performance to twice that of A4000 68040 @ 25 MHz. Dhrystone 9868, MFlops 10.30 measured with sysinfo.
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Please consider cooperating with the Natami team to create standard ISA enhancements to the 68k after you have the fpga Arcade soft CPU working better ;).
Are Natami team open to this as well, or are they a closed-project group wanting to do their own thing?
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1 block ram is about 2K byte. This is quite sufficient as a cache in this case.
/MikeJ
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I think AmigaKit still has a ton of brand new CDTV remote controllers for sale.
I for one am interested in testing comparisons of your three FPGA based Amiga computers, so I hope you will find time to renew your interest in testing and reviewing them for the rest of us. You can always update the results for the FPGA Arcade Replay board after you get the next firmware update. That will also show how much improvement has been made between the firmware you have now, and the next version.
I should have my own Replay board within the next few days. I can hardly wait to get it and test it out.
Thanks for that info. I'm flying to the UK next month and I'll be in Cardiff. I keep saying I'm going to call in to AmigaKit's store and this will give me a perfect excuse. I hope they'll have some Spider PCI cards in too.
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The cache and prefetch must be disabled in the current core. This is what is hurting performance, not the cpu extensions. The new memory controller and cache system does a lot better.
/MikeJ
Also, the Chameleon's soft 68000 isn't really running at 110MHz, despite what SysInfo says. :-)
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1 block ram is about 2K byte. This is quite sufficient as a cache in this case.
Quite enough then ;)
Motorola caches:
68000 - none
68020 - 256 B I-cache
68030 - 256 B
68040 - 4 kB
68060 - 8 kB
Also, the Chameleon's soft 68000 isn't really running at 110 MHz, despite what SysInfo says. :-)
Run a C compilation 10 times in sequence. That ought to give a sufficient comparision ballpark figure when Sysinfo fails.
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\
Earlier results (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39806&pp=15&page=61) show 256 byte instruction- and data cache improves performance to twice that of A4000 68040 @ 25 MHz. Dhrystone 9868, MFlops 10.30 measured with sysinfo.
You mean Mips=10.30 not MFlops right? There's probably not room to add FPU support in the fpga although it would only take 4 FPU instructions to do well in the SysInfo MFlops test. I posted the SysInfo FPU MFlops test on the Natami board...
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=2¬e=35355
The SysInfo tests are a joke. SysSpeed is a little better.
Are Natami team open to this as well, or are they a closed-project group wanting to do their own thing?
I think they are open to standards for 68k ISA enhancements and (S)AGA/RTG enhancements. It would mean more software would support it. Software needs to support enhancements to get a benefit from them. More than 1 CPU standard could be supported if it's too burdensome to add full support. For example, a 68CF standard could add ColdFire instructions only and 68CF2 could add more enhancements for example. A defined specification, name with which to specify it and willingness of developers to support it is what is needed. I would be willing to help if I could find enough interest. I think developers that would support it include the Natami Team, Frank Wille (vasm, vbcc) and me (new version of ADis disassembler and also worked with Frank on some CF optimizations for vasm including more to come). Rune Stensland may do a Asm-Pro update as well. The 68k is a great development platform and we can make it better with a little bit of effort and cooperation.
1 block ram is about 2K byte. This is quite sufficient as a cache in this case.
Even a 2k cache will cause trouble for poorly written games using self-modifying code. Can the cache size be changed or is there bus sniffing (snooping)? I believe the N68k will get bus sniffing eventually in order to have as large of caches as they want.
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I hope there won't be any huge list of extra instruction ISA that all Amiga now should implement. Rather a few instructions that would give a great boost.
The FPGA capacity is limited.
Bloatwarning ..
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You mean Mips=10.30 not MFlops right?
.
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The SysInfo tests are a joke. SysSpeed is a little better.
Mips, I read the screenshot wrong.
What method difference between Sysinfo and SysSpeed is there that makes SysSpeed benchmark so much more accurate?
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I hope there won't be any huge list of extra instruction ISA that all Amiga now should implement. Rather a few instructions that would give a great boost.
The FPGA capacity is limited.
Bloatwarning ..
I hate bloat and the Natami guys hate bloat. The 68k bloat is in the compilers, not the CPU. The 68k has one of the most compact 16 bit word encodings of any full featured CPU. ARM came back to a 16 bit CISC encoding because it's RISC encoding was bloated and now it has support for original RISC ARM + Thumb 1 + Thumb 2. They should have come back to the 68k and added CF and a few other carefully chosen extensions instead. 68k does not have the extensions from hell problem that x86 does. Making an instruction set wider should not impact performance much as Mike pointed out about moving to 68020+ ISA. This already is a huge improvement over 68000 for power and ease of programming. Do you think this was bloat even though CALLM/RTM and pre and post indexed indirect memory addressing modes should have been left out? The CF instructions are well thought out. This is from the CFPRM...
"As the ColdFire Family grew, input from users and tool developers as well as internal performance analysis suggested a number of ISA enhancements could improve performance and code density. Accordingly, different revisions to the baseline instruction set architecture have been defined and implemented in the various ColdFire processor cores."
Improving the code density increases the CPU performance as do any gains from fewer and more powerful instructions. New instructions should be encoded and processed in a similar way to existing instructions so as not to increase complexity in the decoder but could improve overall efficiency (reduce bloat). If you would like examples of the savings and how often the CF instructions could be used, I can start another thread about ISA enhancements. There are examples and talk about ISA enhancements on the Natami forum if you search for ColdFire.
What method difference between Sysinfo and SysSpeed is there that makes SysSpeed benchmark so much more accurate?
The SysSpeed benchmark uses a more realistic set of instructions. The SysInfo MFlops test measures the performance of fnop and fmove register to register mostly. Maybe the 68881/68882 can perform nearly as well as the 68040 and 68060 at fnop but it says nothing about fp performance. Even the SysSpeed benchmarks are limited. Many benchmarks of realistic code that fits in the cache would need to be done and averaged to come up with a realistic Mips and that says nothing about how powerful the instructions are (makes RISC look good). SysSpeed does give me 99 Mips (and 40 MFlops) for my 68060@75MHz which is close to what Motorola claimed so I have to give it some credit ;).
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So SysInfo only fails at measure FPU performance accurately, not the CPU performance?
Oh and yeah.. x86 ought to be the example of how to NOT do ;)
Especially the Pentium 4 is a pile of hodgepod that warms really good.
Maybe ARM processors will eat x86 eventually. So CPUs can process data rather than heat your living quarters.
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So SysInfo only fails at measure FPU performance accurately, not the CPU performance?
It fails at measuring CPU performance also. My 68060@75MHz gives 55820 Dhrystones, 58.26 Mips, 41.77 MFlops, and 6.00 Chip speed vs A600. Sadly, the MFlops is the closest to reality and I know how flawed the test is. I only found the MFlops test in the code as it's easy to spot as there aren't many other fp instructions. The results speak for themselves though.
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Can I ask people to email me (mikej@fpgaarcade.com) and not use the PM system on this forum.
I am getting throught them, but I need to wait 60s between replies and life is too short for that.
Thanks,
MikeJ
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I have received a lot of emails!
I will respond to you all, thanks for being patient.
Hardware assembly and testing is going well.
I really want to roll out the new core with these boards, but there are a few issues remaining.
I'll keep you posted.
/MikeJ
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I have received a lot of emails!
I will respond to you all, thanks for being patient.
Hardware assembly and testing is going well.
I really want to roll out the new core with these boards, but there are a few issues remaining.
I'll keep you posted.
/MikeJ
I don't want to distract you from doing your work, but what are the main features you are trying to improve, or issues you are trying to fix in your new core?
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mike: People who mailed you before don't need to mail again, right?
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The video DAC/DVI interface output for analog VGA seems not to have any crowbar protection, is that changed in the final version?
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There is a 75R source terminator and bav99 protection diode on the outputs on all card versions.
/Mike
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Sorry, found it now ;)
Btw, where do you buy the CH7301C DVI-encoder chip?
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The CF instructions are well thought out
It's tricky.
On one hand a cpu that was compatible with 68000-68060 + CF software would be nice. On the other it is not actually possible to do that 100%, especially because of stack frames & MMU differences.
Extending the instruction set beyond what is available now is a dangerous game though. I wouldn't necessarily even add CF, I'd spend the time and gates on getting the instruction rate up.
In terms of AGA enhancements, higher bandwidth and chunky pixels is all you really need. Copper and blitter etc can stay register compatible.
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@psxphill, Good point!
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On one hand a cpu that was compatible with 68000-68060 + CF software would be nice. On the other it is not actually possible to do that 100%, especially because of stack frames & MMU differences.
The 68000-68060 were not compatible with each other as far as stack frames and MMU differences. Adding "normal" instructions that operate in the same way as previous would not affect these. It's the user level compatibility that we want and it's quite good...
"In most cases, an instruction/addressing mode which does exist in ColdFire behaves exactly like its 680x0 equivalent, which makes it easy for experienced 680x0 programmers to understand ColdFire code. It also means that user-mode code written for ColdFire can generally run unchanged on a 680x0 processor, provided the new ColdFire-only instructions are not used.
However, there are a few subtle cases where the ColdFire instruction is not exactly the same as its 680x0 counterpart. The most important of these is that multiply instructions (MULU and MULS) do not set the overflow bit. This means that a 680x0 code sequence which checks for overflow on multiply may assemble and run under ColdFire, but give incorrect results.
ASL and ASR also differ in that they do not set the overflow bit - but this is less likely to cause problems for real programs!"
MULU/MULS/ASL/ASR will not be a compatibility problem for the 68k as they will continue to be set the 68k way. ColdFire programs would be slightly incompatible because of this but it's extremely rare for a program to use the overflow flag. It's entirely possible to make a 68k+CF CPU that's more compatible with the 68k line than the 68060 was.
Extending the instruction set beyond what is available now is a dangerous game though. I wouldn't necessarily even add CF, I'd spend the time and gates on getting the instruction rate up.
No, it's not dangerous. You would need to double the instruction rate to do the work of a mvs or mvz instruction and they would be common. You would need to at least triple the instruction rate to do the work of a byterev which is less common but used intensely in some drivers and data conversions for loaders/pictures etc. The code reduction also allows the cache to be used more effectively and reduces branch sizes improving overall efficiency. The CF instructions make the job of developers and compiler writers easier also.
In terms of AGA enhancements, higher bandwidth and chunky pixels is all you really need. Copper and blitter etc can stay register compatible.
That's true. It's easy to keep the old and add more while staying compatible. The same applies to the instruction set. Poorly written software will find a way to break no matter what. They will have to be fixed instead of the hardware held back.
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However, there are a few subtle cases where the ColdFire instruction is not exactly the same as its 680x0 counterpart.
Thus ColdFire and 680x0 compatibility is mutually exclusive when the same op-code is supposed to act in different ways?
Poorly written software will find a way to break no matter what. They will have to be fixed instead of the hardware held back.
Then it's no longer a re-implementation, but something completely new. I see the main goal as being able to run the existing software base independently of rotting hardware.
Instruction sequences that involves some kind of looping can be optimized to identify those in the instruction queue. And performing them directly with logic gates with way less clock cycles per operation.
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Instruction sequences that involves some kind of looping can be optimized to identify those in the instruction queue. And performing them directly with logic gates with way less clock cycles per operation.
Sadly, there is no way of actually doing that using current FPGA technology.
You could realtime analyze the instruction sequences but there is no way to reconfigure the FPGA in realtime. In fact it cannot be reconfigured at all while it is in use.
Hopefully this will all become possible 10-20 years from now.
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Thus ColdFire and 680x0 compatibility is mutually exclusive when the same op-code is supposed to act in different ways?
Right. It's not possible to have 100% 68k compatibility and 100% CF compatibility at the same time in the same CPU. It is possible to have 100% 68k compatibility and 99.9% CF (user level) compatibility at the same time. That's what I think should be targeted.
Then it's no longer a re-implementation, but something completely new. I see the main goal as being able to run the existing software base independently of rotting hardware.
The 68000 was not completely compatible with the 68020 at the user level either. The movem instruction was slightly different and some instructions became supervisor level. The 68020 call/rtm instructions were dropped in later 68k processors. The CF is similar with different ISA levels. There is a big difference between CF ISA_A which is minimalist and ISA_C which is close to the power of 68k. There are other options which can exist or not from one CF CPU to the next like MAC (3 different versions), FPU, division. If you want a new name for the slight differences, we could call 68k+CF "Cold Fusion". It would avoid the trademark infringement ;).
Instruction sequences that involves some kind of looping can be optimized to identify those in the instruction queue. And performing them directly with logic gates with way less clock cycles per operation.
The 68k should be a good candidate for loop optimization logic like a loop counter combined with branch prediction. We know when a dbra instruction will terminate ahead of time making it easy to predict which code target of the branch not to load. The post-increment/pre-decrement addressing modes give a hint as to what memory the memory controller should be pre-loading. I suggested as much on the Natami forum but the simple gains need to be realized first. Using the 68040/68060 branch prediction scheme instead of 68020/68030 would save 2 cycles on every iteration of a loop (except last) assuming the same timing as the 68020/68030. That savings adds up fast. Branch prediction schemes generally don't save as many cycles on the 68k due to the short pipeline compared to most other processors.
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You could realtime analyze the instruction sequences but there is no way to reconfigure the FPGA in realtime. In fact it cannot be reconfigured at all while it is in use.
Actually the trick doesn't require any reconfiguration at runtime. You simple compare the instruction queue contents passively (huge and-gate), and when conditions are meet. Another path of instruction handling is selected.
And the current FPGA:s can be runtime partially reconfigured in blocks. Provided proper internal I/O pads has been configured in the first place. The synthesization of a new block is only dependent of the software used. Be it 120 seconds, or 0.1 seconds with a fast computer.
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but there is no way to reconfigure the FPGA in realtime. In fact it cannot be reconfigured at all while it is in use.
Hopefully this will all become possible 10-20 years from now.
Reconfigurable computing is not new. Heck, old 40K tech Atmel FPGAs could be reconfigured on the fly. Spartan3 has an external bus for that, which can be connected to other FPGA pins to be controlled by itself. Spartan6 moves that bus connection inside the chip where it belongs.
There is of course overhead to this process. It takes time to read in a new configuration for that area of the FPGA chip. You have to wait for that before proceeding. I wouldn't want to do that frequently. If frequently is a must, it's probably better to just have both implementations in the design and choose them with a mux controlled by a software settable register. But then what do you do if you're context-switching between both kinds of software during operation, not just setting it and then running whatever one of those environments until some kind of system reset to change... Old software doesn't know about pushing this to stack to keep track. Maybe keep track of where in memory things come from and have a way to tell which memory pages are which instruction set. Ugh... New software could be made smart enough to handle this with a smart compiler for the situation, but old stuff would be a problem.
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It is possible to configure the logic cells on the fly by configuring them a RAMDs.
Then, the read path works as a 4 input LUT, but you can rewrite the contents from other logic elements.
If you use block rams as decode tables, you can also update these during runtime as well.
/MikeJ
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He probably doesn't even know this project exists and is therefore thinking absolutley nothing of it.
Is this Mick Tinker of BoXeR fame?
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=114238066&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=H7rQ&locale=en_US&srchid=136bc207-9f93-4768-ae8f-66db2602e481-0&srchindex=3&srchtotal=4&goback=%2Efps_PBCK_*1_Mick_Tinker_*1_*1_*1_*1_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false_1_R_true_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2&pvs=ps&trk=pp_profile_name_link
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No, it's not dangerous. You would need to double the instruction rate to do the work of a mvs or mvz instruction and they would be common. You would need to at least triple the instruction rate to do the work of a byterev which is less common but used intensely in some drivers and data conversions for loaders/pictures etc.
It depends on the software. If you could get a 25% overall increase then you'd still be faster than CF instructions unless your software was all mvs/mvz.
The danger comes from platform fragementation. It's rather early for natami to try dominating the Amiga market. There never has been a coldfire Amiga, so there is no software that takes advantage of it except for that which you produce yourself & that software won't run on anything but a natami. That would kill my interest pretty quickly.
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Is this Mick Tinker of BoXeR fame?
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=114238066&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=H7rQ&locale=en_US&srchid=136bc207-9f93-4768-ae8f-66db2602e481-0&srchindex=3&srchtotal=4&goback=%2Efps_PBCK_*1_Mick_Tinker_*1_*1_*1_*1_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1_false_1_R_true_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2&pvs=ps&trk=pp_profile_name_link
http://www.linkedin.com/in/micktinker
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It depends on the software. If you could get a 25% overall increase then you'd still be faster than CF instructions unless your software was all mvs/mvz.
I see your point. Making all the instructions 25% faster would be faster overall. I think after a few easy changes, like enabling the cache and prefetch in the case of the fpga Arcade, finding 25% overall performance increase will start to get difficult. Adding instructions is an easy way to increase performance. Making the decoding path wider should has little impact on performance. Mike verified that adding the 68020 support has little effect on the speed...
The cache and prefetch must be disabled in the current core. This is what is hurting performance, not the (68020) cpu extensions. The new memory controller and cache system does a lot better.
The danger comes from platform fragmentation. It's rather early for natami to try dominating the Amiga market. There never has been a coldfire Amiga, so there is no software that takes advantage of it except for that which you produce yourself & that software won't run on anything but a natami. That would kill my interest pretty quickly.
If you didn't notice, we already have platform fragmentation :(. We need supported open standards (helps to glue the fragments back together) and that's why I would like to see standards for an enhanced CPU and AGA. There won't be much new software without standards. It's the chicken and the egg problem that I'm trying to solve. The executables that have CF support would be much like for current 68k CPUs (000, 020, 030, 040, 060, 68CF, 68CF2, etc). Compilers only need a recompile to support whatever ISA/CPU.
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I see your point. Making all the instructions 25% faster would be faster overall. I think after a few easy changes, like enabling the cache and
Mike verified that adding the 68020 support has little effect on the speed...
The point is to being able to run software that requires 68020 enchantments. Which some A1200, A3000, A4000 is likely to require.
If you didn't notice, we already have platform fragmentation :(. We need supported open standards (helps to glue the fragments back together) and that's why I would like to see standards for an enhanced CPU and AGA. There won't be much new software without standards. It's the chicken and the egg problem that I'm trying to solve. The executables that have CF support would be much like for current 68k CPUs (000, 020, 030, 040, 060, 68CF, 68CF2, etc). Compilers only need a recompile to support whatever ISA/CPU.
I was under the impression we were in the business of re-implementing existing Commodore computers. Not inventing new APIs for which there is no software for. Let the existing Commodore models be the "standard".
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I was under the impression we were in the business of re-implementing existing Commodore computers. Not inventing new APIs for which there is no software for. Let the existing Commodore models be the "standard".
I think what he meant was that natami team are making a new CPU, intending to be compatible with 68K but may have something new in it, and that it would be nice if Yaqube's enhancements to TG68 would be compatible with those new things. Have the different groups working together to maintain compatibility between them for all new stuff.
I'm not sure we'll see that happen, and I'm not sure it's completely a bad thing. If everyone is agreeing on everything to be done, then we're waiting for committees to approve anything at all, and we may be losing out on some unique improvements that not everyone on the committee agrees with. Competition can be good for us. It can be uncomfortable and all that, but Hyperion's decisions have left us without any hope for an OS4 laptop, while MorphOS intends to demo one very soon. I wish it would come for an iBook G4 as I already have one of those, but it's more than the Red camp has been willing to allow to happen. (Note that Hyperion is not philosophically against an OS4 laptop, but their rules to get anything done have to date not allowed it to actually come to be. I've tried. If MorphOS on a laptop gives hyperion reason to adjust some of their rules and past decisions, then that might turn out to be a great thing for OS4 fans.)
Besides, if Natami does come up with something cool, if documentation is available then others can reimplement based on that documentation. It'll have to be somewhere. Will they make a nice datasheet? If not, will they use gcc? What ever they use will have to be in gcc sources somewhere... Perhaps not easy to decypher, but there. What about SuperAGA? If they want to see it used, it'll have to have a datasheet. Otherwise it'l be hidden in a P96 or CGX driver, and at that point who cares if it's an extension to AGA or something completely unrelated such as Yacube's P96 graphics thing, which is a parallel block separate from his AGA udpate to Minimig. It could be a simple VGA framebuffer, it could be OpenGraphics, it could be an ARM Mali core, a reimplementation of Voodoo3 from datasheet, whatever, and who cares at that point. (A P96 core would be great, I'm not denying that, but if you're marketing an extension to AGA in particular, then it's not any of these other things which are separate core blocks than AGA) There will of course be some delay in others absorbing whatever information they can find on a new unique feature in one of the various products, then time to reimplement it into their particular product, and for end users to benefit from that, but it is possible.
As I've mentioned in other topics such as the replacement for classic motherboard thread somewhere, if you're reimplementing something, why not add something new and cool to it? Why stop at the 1994 feature set, datasheets, etc? If you're going to all this trouble to make something new, sure, make it compatible so we can run old software on it. The entire point of Minimig and Natami is to make something compatible with our old Amiga software. But, while we're at it, why not add something new, for new software to benefit from? Why not add a P96 graphcis core to Minimig, so that it can run P96 games as well as ECS games? Why not add a PCI slot to Natami, so we can get a much better P96/CGX graphics than what will fit and run inside an FPGA? (I understand that OpenGraphics takes up a LOT of space, and their board has a huge FPGA) If you're going to the trouble to make a new A2000 motherboard, why not add an active 3.3V PCI slot? (like building-in a Mediator or Prometheus to the motherboard itself) If you're making a repalcement for an A4000T motherboard, why not have active PCI slots, plus a bridge to a PCI-Express slot so we can plug in an even newer graphics card? (even if it won't have full PCI-Express connection speed, it will still function) If you're making a new A1200 motherboard, why not add a MiniPCI slot for wireless network and an MXM slot for a modern laptop graphics card? Why not...
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@billt
That's the right attitude. Technology has moved forward, why keep the limits of the past? We can have high and true color chunky screens. We can add a few instructions and larger caches to the CPU as the few logic gates required are minor today. We can have many times the memory and storage space as we had in the past. The one thing we can't upgrade is the closed minds of Amiga users living in the past :/.
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The problem shows when you alter instruction sets, register structure, etc.. which will kill the capability to run exisiting software. Increasing memory, frequency, caches, etc..
If you want updated performance, try Intel Core (MIPS for freedom, or ARM for efficiency might be alternatives), Intel graphics (free API), it ends up being a PC. Though ARM + Graphics is becoming more common as well. However any compatability goes out the window. Also modern systems use memory protection, preemptive multitasking, virtual memory, and user accounts which asfair AmigaOS doesn't support.
It's too bad that Intel/Compaq bought up all good processor projects. NVidia have their super propietary stuff, etc..
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The danger comes from platform fragementation. It's rather early for natami to try dominating the Amiga market. There never has been a coldfire Amiga, so there is no software that takes advantage of it except for that which you produce yourself & that software won't run on anything but a natami. That would kill my interest pretty quickly.
You do know that the Natami doesn't use a Coldfire CPU, right?
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Enhancing the original Amiga features with more modern additions to the feature set in these FPGA based Amiga systems is a good thing that will allow new apps and games to look and/or behave differently than was previously possible on an Amiga, while still maintaining good backward compatibility.
Having open communication of ideas between all of the people working on such systems will help encourage more programmers to use these new features and without new apps and games that use the new features, there is no point in having them.
Not all new features that are created for one of the new FPGA systems will work on all of the other FPGA based systems, but most of them should be possible. It appears that there is a spirit of cooperation between all people working on FPGA based systems, not competition, which is refreshing to see in the Amiga community.
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I was under the impression we were in the business of re-implementing existing Commodore computers. Not inventing new APIs for which there is no software for. Let the existing Commodore models be the "standard".
There is software available for the ColdFire! Add ColdFire instructions to the 68k and this software will run with a very high degree of compatibility on the new 68k + CF.
The problem shows when you alter instruction sets, register structure, etc.. which will kill the capability to run existing software. Increasing memory, frequency, caches, etc..
Well, Mike better go back to the 68000 and throw out all the 68020 changes because he's killed compatibility with 68000 code, right? This is blatantly wrong! The 68000 to a 68020 was a very radical change, was not 100% compatible and made a few mistakes in my opinion but it was still a big enhancement in a positive direction. Adding CF instructions would be much more compatible than 68000 to 68020. It would be more compatible than enlarging the caches. Maybe you should stick with the MiniMig and ECS so you have all that compatibility. Oh wait, they enlarged memory and added new storage devices. There went compatibility. I guess your only option is an original unexpanded Amiga 1000 so you can enjoy your compatibility.
If you want updated performance, try Intel Core (MIPS for freedom, or ARM for efficiency might be alternatives), Intel graphics (free API), it ends up being a PC. Though ARM + Graphics is becoming more common as well. However any compatibility goes out the window. Also modern systems use memory protection, preemptive multitasking, virtual memory, and user accounts which asfair AmigaOS doesn't support.
I think an updated 68k processor has more potential than ARM. I think with a few relatively minor additions the 68k can have...
+ better performance
+ better code density (I think 68CF+ can have 5-10% better code density than 68020)
+ easier to program
with the negatives of...
- higher power requirements (but still good and better than x86 derivatives)
- more gates (cost not really a problem today, power requirements higher)
I'm sorry if you can't see the potential.
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There is software available for the ColdFire! Add ColdFire instructions to the 68k and this software will run with a very high degree of compatibility on the new 68k + CF.
I guess that ColdFire software won't make use of the graphics.
Well, Mike better go back to the 68000 and throw out all the 68020 changes because he's killed compatibility with 68000 code, right? This is blatantly wrong!
I didn't say that.
The 68000 to a 68020 was a very radical change, was not 100% compatible and made a few mistakes in my opinion but it was still a big enhancement in a positive direction.
68020 was in some aspects a requirement for AGA.
Adding CF instructions would be much more compatible than 68000 to 68020. It would be more compatible than enlarging the caches. Maybe you should stick with the MiniMig and ECS so you have all that compatibility. Oh wait, they enlarged memory and added new storage devices. There went compatibility. I guess your only option is an original unexpanded Amiga 1000 so you can enjoy your compatibility.
I didn't say that.
It's interesting that you seem to know what my feature plans are ;)
Adding storage or memory doesn't affect compatibility in any serious way.
I think an updated 68k processor has more potential than ARM. I think with a few relatively minor additions the 68k can have...
I can see the potential in up to date technology. ARM have a tendency to send 3vil lawyers all over the place. But their approach to performance per gate, power consumption, etc.. is worthwhile to sneak at. And FPGA gates are at a premium.
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68020 was in some aspects a requirement for AGA.
There's a youtube vid showing FPGA Arcade (early proto I believe) running AGA software with a 68000 core...
Lion King AGA I believe...
desiv
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Yeah, I know. But there's likely other software that exploit the 68020 capability. One program won't prove it for all software. The larger memory bitwidth might be needed on occasion perhaps as well
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Yeah, I know. But there's likely other software that exploit the 68020 capability. One program won't prove it for all software. The larger memory bitwidth might be needed on occasion perhaps as well
True, although they run a few in yaqube's vid.
But, I think I heard that the 68000 FPGA in use had memory tweaks (full 32-bit bus????)..
So I think it was a core that was somewhere in between a 68k and a 68020.
Could be wrong tho.. I was once..
..
Actually, no I wasn't.. Got that wrong, sorry.. :angry:
desiv
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The problem shows when you alter instruction sets, register structure, etc.. which will kill the capability to run exisiting software. Increasing memory, frequency, caches, etc..
Adding new features doesn't necessitate breaking old stuff. Removing old things will be a bigger problem. So add new things and don't remove old things. Do testing to see if ckock rates or something else causes problems. If a problem is found, we have the situation where with FPGA we can have a version with the new stuff, and an old version for certain things that don't like the new stuff. We can progress without breaking compatibility in many ways, and we can progress in incompatible ways, but still able to use finicky software with a reboot to a more compatible mode. Not big deal IMHO.
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All features use gate capacity.
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Now that these boards are starting to become available is the source for the AGA core going to be available? Awhile ago it was said that the code would not be released until the Replay boards were available. Will the AGA plus pseudo 68020 core ever show up as FOSS or has the project "gone closed"
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Now that these boards are starting to become available is the source for the AGA core going to be available? Awhile ago it was said that the code would not be released until the Replay boards were available. Will the AGA plus pseudo 68020 core ever show up as FOSS or has the project "gone closed"
Open source. It is not a case of waiting for the boards to be available, a few people have bits of the code already.
/MikeJ
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I'm sorry if you can't see the potential.
I can see the potential, but it doesn't look good.
If they can't make it faster without forcing people to change their code then it's pointless. They might as well just sell a PC and an emulator.
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I can see the potential, but it doesn't look good.
If they can't make it faster without forcing people to change their code then it's pointless. They might as well just sell a PC and an emulator.
Some ppl doesn't want a pc with an emulator, don't you get it?
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Some software like cycle accurancy. Thus software emulation won't cut it.
I still rememeber the people that said Minimig is IMPOSSIBLE!! :D
Oh and AGA.. are you NUTS!?
Mike.. oh forgett it ;) ;)
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They might as well just sell a PC and an emulator.
A PC that is umteen times bigger, pulls a heck lot more power, and still is uncapable of cycle exact emulation? We already got those.
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I've added mechanical data and schematics to the website.
Mouse / Keyboard is now working with new softCPU core (picoblaze) to save space and add some flexibility.
It's now easier to change the keymap and you can have two mice (or keyboards) if you fancy.
I'm also trying to support native Atari/Amiga mice in the joystick port.
Best,
MikeJ
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I'm also trying to support native Atari/Amiga mice in the joystick port.
Best,
MikeJ
It will be nice for use with the stick mouse emulation of the Paul Willinghams's code (PSX/PS2 Adapter) !
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I've had to pop back to China for a brief trip, so I won't get any boards shipped out until early November.
On the plus side, I am sourcing parts for the daughter board and working on the new AGA core. I getting some ATX IO shields made, and one board has been sent for EMC testing (CE/FCC etc).
So, it's all coming together ....
/MikeJ
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Is EMC testing for CE/FCC compliance really required even for this kind of run?, there's some exempts for components that are not a "full system". Ie circuit boards with components.
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Is EMC testing for CE/FCC compliance really required even for this kind of run?, there's some exempts for components that are not a "full system". Ie circuit boards with components.
"A component made by a supplier for installation into a final product may need CE marking. If the component can be sold commercially and used independently, such as electronic circuit boards, electric motors, or computer disc drives, then CE marking will be required."
/MIkeJ
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Otoh, the authorities usually require one to test before sales not while selling ;)
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I can't wait to get it !!! :)
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A PC that is umteen times bigger, pulls a heck lot more power, and still is uncapable of cycle exact emulation? We already got those.
Natami doesn't do cycle exact emulation. It's not even on their list of things they want to try. Atom power requirements are quite low, you could even go for ARM and just run AROS.
The advantage of going for 68000 compatibility is you get to run existing Amiga software. If you need to recompile it to make it quick because they'd rather add new instructions than speed up existing ones then it's missed the point completely.
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@MikeJ will you be opening a online checkout at your fpgaarcade.com website once you made the big batch of fpga arcades or will buy them amigakit or somewhere?
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Yes, that's the plan.
I'm in China this week and I have not been able to answer some emails, I will catch up soon.
I'm trying to get an ATX IO panel made as we discussed. It's going well, the only issue is the cost will work out in the 10-15 Euro region. They need to be laser cut (unless I want 10,000).
How do people feel about the price, is it ok or no interest?
/MikeJ
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Will it include cut-outs for the daughter board?
I'd be up for one at 10-15 euro's.
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I'm interested, of course! It will be a fine touch :D
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Maybe a plastic cover version could be made on-the-cheap?
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I'm trying to get an ATX IO panel made as we discussed. It's going well, the only issue is the cost will work out in the 10-15 Euro region. They need to be laser cut (unless I want 10,000).
How do people feel about the price, is it ok or no interest?
/MikeJ
The price is OK for me too! :)
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I think price is ok too!
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Yes, that's the plan.
I'm in China this week and I have not been able to answer some emails, I will catch up soon.
I'm trying to get an ATX IO panel made as we discussed. It's going well, the only issue is the cost will work out in the 10-15 Euro region. They need to be laser cut (unless I want 10,000).
How do people feel about the price, is it ok or no interest?
/MikeJ
Totally!
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Yeah an ATX panel with a color plastic label would be worth $20 if it looked tits. $25 even. Hell I'll make my own label. Just a tin cutout panel is enough.
Just more idle ramblings--- could a ppc daughtercard be made for this sucker? They gotta be cheaper than 060's. How about a standard a1200 expansion interface? Possibilities... om nom nom.
:)
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This is so great can wait to be able to order it !
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So will the CE marking take a long time to do?
Please I think the atx adapter price is fair
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TANGENT ALERT!
A couple of quick questions:
How long does it take to load a core on fpga devices? Is it an instant thing and is there a limit to the number of times you can write to a device (like flash)?
If I wanted to use a Keyrah interface would the core need to have support built in?
Thanks.
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TANGENT ALERT!
A couple of quick questions:
How long does it take to load a core on fpga devices? Is it an instant thing and is there a limit to the number of times you can write to a device (like flash)?
If I wanted to use a Keyrah interface would the core need to have support built in?
Thanks.
the core loads in the blink of an eye so you won't even have time to read the "credits" before the Amiga boots (abou 2 seconds approx).
Using a keyrah would require USB support. Stick to a cheap PS2 keyboard.
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the core loads in the blink of an eye so you won't even have time to read the "credits" before the Amiga boots (abou 2 seconds approx).
Using a keyrah would require USB support. Stick to a cheap PS2 keyboard.
That's a shame. I'd hoped to use a keyrah for that genuine Amiga/C64 experience (but I've also just noticed that there is no A500 version).
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I understand. I have an 8 bit and 16 bit Keyrah for WinUAE use, but while my A2000 and 3000 have original keyboards, I use PS2 PC keyboards on my FPGA Amigas, A4000 and A1200 towers and to be honest, I hardly notice. plus F12 brings up the OSM and the might keyboards stop at F10. :-)
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Here's my custom FPGA Arcade case, made out of frosted acrylic and 1960's phenolic plastic:
(http://www.evillabs.net/wiki/images/7/76/FPGAArcade-Replay-Case.jpg)
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Will it include cut-outs for the daughter board?
I'd be up for one at 10-15 euro's.
Partially cut openings that could be easily removed later for the ports on the daughter card, for the USB and Ethernet ports would be a good idea, so we all don't have to replace the back plane when the daughter card is perfected and ready for sale. The price is fine with me at 10 to 15 euro's.
How is the testing and assembly of the remaining 48 boards going?
How many of those are spoken for, or more importantly, how many FPGA Arcade Replay boards are available for people to buy. If the answer is they are all reserved for people waiting for them already, when will the next batch of FPGA Arcade Replay boards be produced and how many are you planning for the next batch? 50, 100, 200? Have you received lots of interest and requests to purchase the FPGA Arcade Replay boards from outside the Amiga community, like from the Retro-Arcade communities, or the Atari community?
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@Ezrec
Heh, I kinda like that although Im not entirely sure why. It's both ugly, but appealing at the same time :)
For some reason it (to me at least) looks like a prop from the Jackie Chan movie "Around The World In 80 Days", which while being very family oriented I enjoyed.
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@Ezrec
It's got a steampunk look, which is just appropriate!...
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@michel3105 - I'll second that!
It's looks great - like something out of Chaos Engine - very fitting!
All Ezrec needs now is a flat screen monitor done up with a heavy gothic frame in gold leaf to complete the look!
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Here's my custom FPGA Arcade case, made out of frosted acrylic and 1960's phenolic plastic:
(http://www.evillabs.net/wiki/images/7/76/FPGAArcade-Replay-Case.jpg)
Neat, where did you get the 1960s stuff? Reminds me of old TV materials.
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My father-in-law got the 1960's phenolic from the back of his design studio, where a student had hauled in a huge sheet of it for a project a few decades ago.
The acrylic is new, just sandblasted lightly on one side to give it that frosted look.
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@MikeJ
I've got a new toy on my desk. It's on loan, but it's a Virtex-7 2000T. This baby would take a full Amiga Chipset + CPU (many times over) and early runs with Synplify + ISE have MiniMig 68k meeting timing easily constrained at 100MHz
Shame it cost over $100k :)
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@MikeJ
I've got a new toy on my desk. It's on loan, but it's a Virtex-7 2000T. This baby would take a full Amiga Chipset + CPU (many times over) and early runs with Synplify + ISE have MiniMig 68k meeting timing easily constrained at 100MHz
Shame it cost over $100k :)
Xilinx has announced the first shipments of its Virtex-7 2000T Field Programmable Gate Array (FPGA). The Virtex-7 2000T is the world’s highest-capacity programmable logic device – it contains 6.8 billion transistors, providing customers access to 2 million logic cells. This is equivalent to 20 million ASIC gates, which makes these devices ideal for system integration, ASIC replacement, and ASIC prototyping and emulation.
6.8 billion transistors don't come cheap, eh? ;-)
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@MikeJ
I've got a new toy on my desk. It's on loan, but it's a Virtex-7 2000T. This baby would take a full Amiga Chipset + CPU (many times over) and early runs with Synplify + ISE have MiniMig 68k meeting timing easily constrained at 100MHz
Shame it cost over $100k :)
I have now one of these (http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,400,836&Prod=ATLYS) on my desk. Somewhat less powerful but also less costly :).
Also don't have the commercial software with it, so I am interested to see what IP I will be missing.
Unfortunately did not find a time to start it up yet.
greets,
Staf.
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PowerPC on FPGA (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55671) within grasp then finally? ;)
@Fats, tried raw S-ATA with the board ..?
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@MikeJ
I've got a new toy on my desk. It's on loan, but it's a Virtex-7 2000T. This baby would take a full Amiga Chipset + CPU (many times over) and early runs with Synplify + ISE have MiniMig 68k meeting timing easily constrained at 100MHz
Shame it cost over $100k :)
Very nice Alex. We were trying to get one of those for prototyping, but we brought the largest Virtex-6 we could get instead. Still pretty big :)
Enjoy... what's compile time like when you get it full? I had to move to a 64 bit Linux box for both Synplify + ISE with 32G of RAM!!
/MikeJ
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LX720's are so last year ;)
Something in the realm of 8hrs on our fastest Sandy Bridge Xeon. But it doesn't help that it is partitioned over the two FPGA's in the 2000 using Certify's auto partition. This is all on loan and using minimal constraints.
Our real stuff on LX330 + FX550T is much faster due to manual partitioning at the design level and strict constraints..
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@mikej, How many Hz and CPU type for that box?
Guess for larger FPGA:s compartemilisation is the feature. Lest synthesisation is going to take lots of time..
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Synthesis is very quick, 10's of minutes. MAP & Optimize + Place & Route takes the biggest amount of that time.
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That's slow for the developtment loop. Edit-compile-test-repeat..
But the time from HDL to binary needs CPU and frequency to be of a comparative nature.
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@Fats, tried raw S-ATA with the board ..?
No. Unfortunately the only thing I currently did with the board is look at it every time I enter my room.
greets,
Staf.
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I am interested in getting an Arcade FPGA =) (including a backplate when available!). What is the current availability situation... and price?
Thanks!
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im interested in buying the fpga arcade and atx adapter, when the fpga arcade expansion is available too for the 68060 cpu.
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About availability, will FPGA Replay ever be sold through Amiga Kit or other retailers?
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@Fats, tried raw S-ATA with the board ..? (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55671)
Did a bit of playing with the device.
IOs on the Spartan-6 chip only go to 1.06 Gb/s; SATA1 needs 1.5Gb/s already. Will see if I can use USB stick for storage.
greets,
Staf.
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@Fats, see if it will work anyway? perhaps it works inoffcially ;)
Guess it lacks "rocketport" and interleaving hack won't work?
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Hi, I've arrived back from China and board testing continues...
/MikeJ
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Out of curiosity how do you test the boards?
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I have a test rig and a special FPGA build - thats the advantage of having an FPGA :)
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Sorry to change the topic. I am just curious on where in the run the daughterboard is :-)
What is the current focus as of today, and when do you think the daughterboard might see the light of day for beta-testers ? Ballpark estimates are more than adequate :-)
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Sorry to change the topic. I am just curious on where in the run the daughterboard is :-)
What is the current focus as of today, and when do you think the daughterboard might see the light of day for beta-testers ? Ballpark estimates are more than adequate :-)
I don't think MikeJ has had much time to work on finalizing the daughterboard yet. He has been busy with final assembly and testing of the 48 FPGA Arcade Replay boards he produced and has a full time job AFAIK.
I too am anxious for the daughterboard to be finished, but don't expect it for another 6 to 12 months.
Hope all is going well with your assembly and testing Mike.:)
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The daughterboard is coming along in placement, and I picked up most of the components for the test board. I'm busy with testing, ce marking and the rear panel at the moment, but nearly there. The website is also taking a lot of time to get up.
I am hoping to get the daughterboard PCB produced on my next trip, early Jan.
/MikeJ
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Any news on the boards?. Hope all is going ok and there were no problems manufacturing.
This waiting is becoming a pain :)
Thanks in advance!!!
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Sorry for the lack of updates, I have been traveling.
Still testing but starting to ship out. I'm mailing people this weekend asking to confirm price, address etc.
Cheers,
Mike
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Oooh, nice, can't wait. :)
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@Mike: Awesome news!! But one thing I am still eager to hear is whether the functions of he daughterboard will be available if I run a core with 020 soft cpu instead of booting up with the onboard 060 cpu.
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Yes, you can use the daughterboard IO if using the cpu on the main board. In fact, the daughterboard can be depopulated and used just for the IO.
Cheers,
Mike
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The daughterboard is coming along in placement, and I picked up most of the components for the test board. I'm busy with testing, ce marking and the rear panel at the moment, but nearly there. The website is also taking a lot of time to get up.
I am hoping to get the daughterboard PCB produced on my next trip, early Jan.
/MikeJ
Would make a great Xmas present to myself ;)
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Yes, you can use the daughterboard IO if using the cpu on the main board. In fact, the daughterboard can be depopulated and used just for the IO.
One word: AWESOME
BTW: Does the daughterboard have some IO connectors so one can connect future expansions aswell ? (not that i think I need that) Do you see a rev#2 of a daughterboard with other options in the future ?
Just curious of the roadmap :)
Espen
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Stupid question... what resolution (resolutions?) does this output at using the DVI connector? Will there be an option to have the hardware to say, double the resolution in size (triple?) rather than leave it to the TV to upscale?
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Stupid question... what resolution (resolutions?) does this output at using the DVI connector? Will there be an option to have the hardware to say, double the resolution in size (triple?) rather than leave it to the TV to upscale?
I'm sure there will be a de-interlacer for hardware bashing games.
As for the desktop, I would hope that someone would eventually create monitor drivers for the following resolutions to drive the television at its native resolutions:
Widescreen: 1280x720 (720p), 1280x360, 640x360, 640x720
Widescreen: 1366x768 ("HD Ready" television and cheap monitors)
Standard: 800x600 (400x300, etc), 1024x768 (512x384, etc), 1280x960 (640x480, 320x240, etc), 1280x1024 (stupid 5:4 resolution)
I don't know if the hardware would be able to support the following:
Widescreen: 1680x1050, 1680x525, 840x1050, 840x525
Widescreen: 1920x1080, 1920x540, 960x1080, 960x540, (480x270)
Standard: 1920x1200, etc
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What I meant is this (all hypotetical ok :P ):
Say an Amiga game has a resolution of 240p, and I connect the ArcadeFPGA to my 1080p. Instead of feeding the TV 240p and let it upscale, would it be possible have the ArcadeFPGA to quadruple the resolution and leave the extra remaining pixels "empty" (black border.
So, let's do the maths....
240p x 4 = 960p
1080p - 960 = 120p / 2 = 60 extra pixels on top of bottom of the screen.
In the case of using a 720p resolution, it won't be possible to have the resolution quadrupled, because it wouldn't fit, so instead we'd do:
240p x 3 = 720p
In the above scenario the picture would fit pixel perfect without any margins :D
Is the above possible, or it is a sign that I had too much wine during today's dinner?
Thanks!
PS The idea is to avoid using the TV's upscaler which usually suck
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I think it's doable.
It's when you need cosinustransform in FPGA that things get slightly more complicated..
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I think it's doable.
It's when you need cosinustransform in FPGA that things get slightly more complicated..
You need what? :P
BTW are there any good videos of Arcade FPGA running a few amiga games? I can't find anything decent.
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What I meant is this (all hypotetical ok :P ):
Say an Amiga game has a resolution of 240p, and I connect the ArcadeFPGA to my 1080p. Instead of feeding the TV 240p and let it upscale, would it be possible have the ArcadeFPGA to quadruple the resolution and leave the extra remaining pixels "empty" (black border.
So, let's do the maths....
240p x 4 = 960p
1080p - 960 = 120p / 2 = 60 extra pixels on top of bottom of the screen.
In the case of using a 720p resolution, it won't be possible to have the resolution quadrupled, because it wouldn't fit, so instead we'd do:
240p x 3 = 720p
In the above scenario the picture would fit pixel perfect without any margins :D
Is the above possible, or it is a sign that I had too much wine during today's dinner?
Thanks!
PS The idea is to avoid using the TV's upscaler which usually suck
This is actually a big deal.
If done this way as Nostromo suggests, it would give us the best possible picture quality. It would be blocky, but crystal clear. Much better than TFT screen upscaler which would lead to a jaggy-blurry picture.
Also, Workbench resolution as 512p x 2 = 1024p
Great great stuff if possible.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_cosine_transform
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This is actually a big deal.
If done this way as Nostromo suggests, it would give us the best possible picture quality. It would be blocky, but crystal clear. Much better than TFT screen upscaler which would lead to a jaggy-blurry picture.
Also, Workbench resolution as 512p x 2 = 1024p
Great great stuff if possible.
I guess it can be done by software? On the core? And well you can always have some image post-processing features such as scanlines to soften the pixel edges.
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You have approximately 81,17 ns to process each pixel which at least will involve one trigonometric function :P
(equal to 12 MHz)
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Can we get a spec sheet posted on your website MikeJ for the components that are to be installed on the daughter board. I don't think there is a list anywhere that describes it in detail, or I just have not found it.
IIRC, from the picture of it, it has 3 USB ports, additional RAM, but I don't know how much is planned, and the Ethernet Port.
A custom graphics card that could use already existing CyberGraphX4 or Picasso96 drivers, would be a very nice addition for the Replay board and daughter card. Is that something that is even possible?
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MikeJ will be able to answer in more depth, I'm sure, but my understanding is that the output modes selectable, is something which is entirely determined by the core itself, and then any drivers written in AmigaOS to support what the core supports.
The Replay Board itself is capable of outputting just about anything: it is equipped with a DVI socket on the back capable of outputting both digital and analog signal outputs. The rest is entirely up to the core. As for precisely what Minimig AGA supports screenmodes-wise, that's something that only MikeJ or Jakub can answer right now. As for custom graphics card support, well a lot would depend on what exactly you have in mind. But my understanding is that if what you want is Picasso-style graphics card support, then I'm pretty sure that support can and will in due time be implemented in FPGA as well. There's no need for a physical card via the expansion slot, just as there's no need for physical AGA chips to gain AGA compatibility, it can all be done in FPGA.
On the question of Chip RAM, I know it is possible to expand Chip RAM from the standard AGA 2MB up to a massive 50MB(!). There is a Youtube video from last year which which shows this in action; the additional Chip RAM can be activated by executing an 'xchip' command in the AmigaShell. Chip RAM availability then shoots up from 2MB to 50MB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn4ZzLH6MpE (it's at around the 1:10 mark.)
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MikeJ will be able to answer in more depth, I'm sure, but my understanding is that the output modes selectable, is something which is entirely determined by the core itself, and then any drivers written in AmigaOS to support what the core supports.
The Replay Board itself is capable of outputting just about anything: it is equipped with a DVI socket on the back capable of outputting both digital and analog signal outputs. The rest is entirely up to the core. As for precisely what Minimig AGA supports screenmodes-wise, that's something that only MikeJ or Jakub can answer right now. As for custom graphics card support, well a lot would depend on what exactly you have in mind. But my understanding is that if what you want is Picasso-style graphics card support, then I'm pretty sure that support can and will in due time be implemented in FPGA as well. There's no need for a physical card via the expansion slot, just as there's no need for physical AGA chips to gain AGA compatibility, it can all be done in FPGA.
On the question of Chip RAM, I know it is possible to expand Chip RAM from the standard AGA 2MB up to a massive 50MB(!). There is a Youtube video from last year which which shows this in action; the additional Chip RAM can be activated by executing an 'xchip' command in the AmigaShell. Chip RAM availability then shoots up from 2MB to 50MB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn4ZzLH6MpE (it's at around the 1:10 mark.)
I know that the display modes are controllable by the core, but my question, or hope was that more advanced display modes could be supported with an actual graphics RTG card connected to the Replay board, or to it's daughter card. Display modes from the core will be limited to the softcore AGA code and it would be nice if there was a way to also have some more powerful, better looking display modes from a video card.
Thanks for the answer about the Chip RAM, as I had forgotten what was done with that. So many Amiga choices these days, it is hard to keep up with all of them.
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I know that the display modes are controllable by the core, but my question, or hope was that more advanced display modes could be supported with an actual graphics RTG card connected to the Replay board, or to it's daughter card. Display modes from the core will be limited to the softcore AGA code and it would be nice if there was a way to also have some more powerful, better looking display modes from a video card.
Don't need a video card, Minimig AGA has one built in.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=648912
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What sort of specs does the arcade FPGA come with out of the box? Emulated CPU speed and RAM?
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Don't need a video card, Minimig AGA has one built in.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=648912
This is what I trying to get across when I said the available output modes on the Replay are controlled in software, by the soft core (the 'hardware') and by OS drivers. The FPGA can "be" anything we want it to be - it can be a CPU, ECS, AGA - and a graphics card too. We don't need a physical graphics card to get RTG modes, that's the beauty of this system. The FPGA is like a blank canvas. It can be anything we'd like to create in silicon!
The only limitation is that someone has to write the core code & drivers to support the particular screen modes we wish to display - and the FPGA needs enough spare capacity to output the mode we're looking to support. Yacubed estimated the Replay could support modes upto 1,280 x 1,024 - but I am guessing that's in full 24-bit mode, and that higher resolutions would be possible with less colours.
The link above to the Minimig AGA 060 topic explains in more detail, but to sum it up, the only reason that FPGA Replay does not presently support Picasso96 RTG screen modes is because the T68K soft core is not yet 100% compatible in '020 mode, and so the P96 software won't yet run. But with a 68060 CPU installed via an expansion card, the Picasso 96 *will* run, and thus can support RTG modes people, provided a P96 driver is written for them.
Yacubed is working away at implementing this now, and the aim is to have the P96 software fully running and supporting RTG modes on an unexpanded Replay board in the nearish future. MikeJ is currently doing some work on different output modes too.
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What sort of specs does the arcade FPGA come with out of the box? Emulated CPU speed and RAM?
CPU : 68020 (@ 68030/50 Mhz speed)
Ram: 64MB
Tiny size of 170x80mm, fits any mini-ITX cabinet
Xilinx Spartan 3E FPGA (1.6M Gates)
ARM 7S256 System controller
64 MB DDR2 DRAM
Wolfson HI-FI quality DAC
SD slot, DVI out, USB, PS/2 and serial connectors.
Expansion slot for JAMMA expansion board, MC68060+ethernet board, etc
Input / output connections
P1 2 pin RS232 select jumber for debug (ARM or FPGA)
P2 2 pin 5V external power input
P3 32 pin IO cable expansion 1
P4 9 pinD RS232
P5 Molex 12V/5V external power input
P6 2.1mm 5V power input for wall adapter
P7 32 pin IO cable expansion 2
P8 main SAMTEC board stacking connector. Lots of IO
P9 3 pin ARM debug serial connector
P10 2 pin ARM ERASE
P11 2 pin ARM TST
P12 micro USB (for updating ARM firmware)
P13 6 pin FPGA JTAG debug
P14 5 pin USB header (parallel with P12)
P15 sub SAMTEC board stacking connector. Video+Audio+Joysticks
P16 SD card
P17 2 pin external ARM reset input
P18 2 x 9pinD enhanced joystick inputs
P19 2 pin soft reset input (parallel with S2 push button)
P20 SVHS / composite video output
P21 2 x 6pin PS2 inputs (mouse / keyboard)
P22 DVI output (HDMI + analogue video for SCART/VGA)
P23 3.5mm stereo audio output
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I guess the specs are more than enough to install Workbench 3.1 on 'HDD' (SDCARD) and then copy a bunch of games and use WHDLOAD to play them :)
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The only limitation is that someone has to write the core code & drivers to support the particular screen modes we wish to display - and the FPGA needs enough spare capacity to output the mode we're looking to support. Yacubed estimated the Replay could support modes upto 1,280 x 1,024 - but I am guessing that's in full 24-bit mode, and that higher resolutions would be possible with less colours.
The hard limitations are:
* Primarily memory bandwidth, (screen size) * (color depth) * (updates) = (memfreq) * (bits)
* Memory size limits maximum resolution
* Memory access can be lessen by using HAM-style mode. Like HAM24 etc..
* I/O transition rate (333 Mbps/lane?) on the FPGA and number of bits wired to the video transceiver chip
Things like DDR on the memory access doubles number of bits per clock. While CPU accesses uses up some.. ;)
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CPU : 68020 (@ 68030/50 Mhz speed)
At the moment, this is correct, but it is subject to change as they improve the T68K core. I've been exchanging some interesting e-mails with Yacubed on this subject in order to get a better grip on where things are going. Here's a little snippet from his email (slightly altered for clarity). I'm sure he won't mind me sharing with a wider audience :)
SS: I think for most people, though, what matters is not really what the specific model of CPU you implement -- but getting the maximum possible performance and speed ... Maximum compatibility and maximum speed.
Y: "That's the beauty of FPGA chips - you can create circuits which never existed before. The Tobias Gubener's TG68 can be configured on the fly between 68000/010/020 and EC020 modes. The performance calculated as instructions per clock is already twice as fast as an 030, and we can use hardware multipliers of the FPGA to improve multiplication and shift/rotate instructions. Then it will outperform an 060 clocked at the same rate. The compatibility of [a real] 68060 is limited (when compared with its predecessor) in exchange for it's higher performance. Our softcore CPU doesn't have these drawbacks (although we need some time to fix the last few problems but fortunately there are not many of them).
I guess the specs are more than enough to install Workbench 3.1 on 'HDD' (SDCARD) and then copy a bunch of games and use WHDLOAD to play them :)
It should just about do, yes... ;)
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A brief update.
Boards are shipping. I am working through the list of everybody who has contacted me as I can test and ship board. If you haven't received a email yet, you will!
I have produced a version of the core based on Yacube's 060 version, but with internal softcore again. This has also picked up some of the generic Replay libs and I am working on a general code and timing cleanup in parallel with the Yacube's work.
As was mentioned, this code does contain a "video card" capable of hi-res output over DVI, when the CPU core is fixed.
Best,
Mike
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This sounds like it will be a nice Christmas present! :)
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Have you decided yet whether you'll be doing another run of boards?
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A brief update.
Boards are shipping. I am working through the list of everybody who has contacted me as I can test and ship board. If you haven't received a email yet, you will!
I have produced a version of the core based on Yacube's 060 version, but with internal softcore again. This has also picked up some of the generic Replay libs and I am working on a general code and timing cleanup in parallel with the Yacube's work.
As was mentioned, this code does contain a "video card" capable of hi-res output over DVI, when the CPU core is fixed.
Best,
Mike
I assume that this new core is available for download somewhere on your site? I would like to update my board to the latest developments, but I hope it is possible without wiping the other software that came on my SD Card when I got it from you. This will be my first attempt at updating any kind of FPGA device.
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Have you decided yet whether you'll be doing another run of boards?
I am sure he will be doing future production runs. This is a great product and should have a long life of future enhancements and will be used by many Amiga users as well as former Atari users and fans of Arcade systems.
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I assume that this new core is available for download somewhere on your site? I would like to update my board to the latest developments, but I hope it is possible without wiping the other software that came on my SD Card when I got it from you. This will be my first attempt at updating any kind of FPGA device.
I also want to upgrade my board with the new core Mike, where can we get it ?
Thanks for the support :-)
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The daughterboard is coming along in placement, and I picked up most of the components for the test board. I'm busy with testing, ce marking and the rear panel at the moment, but nearly there. The website is also taking a lot of time to get up.
I am hoping to get the daughterboard PCB produced on my next trip, early Jan.
/MikeJ
Hi Mike. I pre-ordered the daughterboard from Yaqube when it was initially discussed...am I still on the list for pre-orders of the first batch ?
:)
Espen
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Have you decided yet whether you'll be doing another run of boards?
I sure hope so. The Replay is a wonderful little system with so much potential. Mike has invested a huge amount of time, effort and energy into it's construction, and it would be fantastic to see it truly take off.
It would be nice if the open source community could embrace this system too, and find new and exciting ways of utilising the FPGA technology. What about creating a new platform which combines 68K and X86 technology? Could open source OS's like AROS use a hybrid system in some way to develop a multi-architecture OS?
Okay, I'm just imagining possibilities and engaging in wild speculation here, but it's because what I love about FPGA technology is that it's theoretical potential is as vast as the imagination of the people using it.
Personally, I'm very much looking forward to using AmigaOS on this thing, but will have fun playing around with other systems/cores which are released for it over time. But as well as bringing older technology snack to life, a part of me is very much hoping that boards like this will lead to entirely new creative projects being undertaken :)
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I also want to upgrade my board with the new core Mike, where can we get it ?
Thanks for the support :-)
It doesn't completely work yet. When I get back from China at the weekend I'll fix it and let you guys try it.
You just replace a file in the root of the SD card with the new one.
You can rename the old one and swap back whenever you wish.
/MikeJ
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It doesn't completely work yet. When I get back from China at the weekend I'll fix it and let you guys try it.
You just replace a file in the root of the SD card with the new one.
You can rename the old one and swap back whenever you wish.
/MikeJ
A big THANKS Mike, hope you get it working soon when you back at your base...
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It doesn't completely work yet. When I get back from China at the weekend I'll fix it and let you guys try it.
You just replace a file in the root of the SD card with the new one.
You can rename the old one and swap back whenever you wish.
/MikeJ
Sounds great. Looking forward to it.
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Can't wait for one of these to be nestling comfortably at home.
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Hi Mike. I pre-ordered the daughterboard from Yaqube when it was initially discussed...am I still on the list for pre-orders of the first batch ?
:)
Espen
I had not seen any discussion about "pre-ordering" the daughter boards.
If there is a list of people that want to purchase these daughter boards, please add me to that list. I would like to be one of the first people to get one of them. I doubt a price has been set for them, but if an estimated price has been discussed, please repeat what it might be.
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Can't wait for one of these to be nestling comfortably at home.
Likewise! Theres a lonely, empty space underneath my living room TV, just itching to be filled by an object approximately 17cm by 10cm in size - give or take a few CM's. :)
This empty space just doesn't look right. I keep looking at it and thinking 'this must be filled somehow!'
I do hope I can have the situation rectified by 25 December 2011 :lol:
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I had not seen any discussion about "pre-ordering" the daughter boards.
If there is a list of people that want to purchase these daughter boards, please add me to that list. I would like to be one of the first people to get one of them. I doubt a price has been set for them, but if an estimated price has been discussed, please repeat what it might be.
You cannot really put a price on this stuff. It's priceless :)
My home office is going to be used for the replay board only...i need nothing else :)
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I havent got any email yet... I have enquired in the past about the Arcade FPGA with Mike but not sure if I am not on the preorder list or not...
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I havent got any email yet... I have enquired in the past about the Arcade FPGA with Mike but not sure if I am not on the preorder list or not...
Had mine a month or more ago.. pretty sure if you havent then you are not on the list for this 40 odd batch but on next list... Having said that I've had nothing since and was hoping for an Xmas Amiga :(
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That's ok, hopefully the 2nd batch will be cheaper ;)
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will this board ever be forsale to the masses seems to be taking ages ,it would have been better if people kept it in the background like natami thingy ,then we wouldnt have to pull our hair out waiting , or is this board just for the elite as usual???????
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Good things come to those who wait ;)
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will this board ever be forsale to the masses seems to be taking ages ,it would have been better if people kept it in the background like natami thingy ,then we wouldnt have to pull our hair out waiting , or is this board just for the elite as usual???????
I don't know what the "Elite" are that you are writing about, and I strongly disagree with your assessment that MikeJ should have kept quiet about this project until it was ready for sale. Mike has provided good information and listened to many users who have provided feedback and suggestions for this project. It is refreshing to see a project manager who has been as open and responsive to his prospective buyers as MikeJ has been, and I can only wish that more of the Amiga project members were as open and responsive as Mike has been. Many other people here agree with this, as has been discussed previously in this and other threads.
You should be able to buy one of these soon. Mike has been ironing out the last few remaining bugs and you must realize that this is a one man project, except for the other guys that have been working on improvements to the 68k core, which is only one part of this total package. I think that Yacube might be helping with work on the expansion daughter board, but ultimately it is Mike that is getting everything manufactured and assembled. These things take time and I am sure he has a full time job and some kind of family life too, so be patient and make sure you are on the list of people that want to buy one of these. Then sit back and relax and wait for your turn to arrive.
It is a great project and has tons of expansion and future enhancements that could be available in the future. I think MikeJ is a very talented guy to rival even Jens Schoenfeld of Individual Computers and that is high praise indeed.
So, don't get so impatient that you piss off the person you are trying to get new hardware from. I am sure he is working as fast as he can on this project.
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I agree with @amigadave.
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I would like to echo AmigaDave's comments and say that I think, actually, it is quite incredible what MikeJ has been able to achieve so far. For one person to personally design, and then build, refine, source a supplier for components, arrange a business deal to get it produced in quantity, arrange funding to pay for it all, and then get a production run of 50 units produced, and then personally thoroughly test each one, and then ship them all out himself without any support from any other person...is quite incredible!! Especially if, as I believe, MikeJ is holding down a full time job at the same time.
I realise it is very frustrating that we can't all have our new wonder-Amigas right now, and the frustration you're expressing it probably made worse by all the false promises of the past by other vendors - promised machines which never materialised - but this isn't MikeJ's fault. He's in many ways done a lot more than any single person alone would ordinarily be able to achieve. I for one am very impressed by his work so far!
I am sure he would like to order hundreds of these boards and ship them all out, but I suspect he probably wants to see how gets on with 50 for now. There's only so much a single person can handle at a time. It's a lot of work, and I'm sure what he doesn't want to do is to end up ordering 1,000 of these boards, and then find he can't test so many units all by himself, and has tp ship them out as-is, and find that many have faults which cost a lot to fix (for example.) Or to find he can't sell all of them and would make a massive loss on this project.
The responsible thing to do, in my opinion, is exactly what he has done. That is: to produce a limited run of boards to begin with, so that he can then personally test them all, and start sending them out to customers, and then see how the units perform 'in the wild', and see what the reaction is like from his customers. IF it all goes well, and there are no problems, and all the units perform as expected.. and there's still a lot of demand for the Replay.. and he's confident enough to place a much larger order, and be able to trust and rely upon the workmanship of the factory producing them without personally testing hundreds of units, then he'll be able to ship out more... THEN he can place that much larger order, and everyone can get the Replay they desire.
I think we need to ask ourselves, could we do what MikeJ has done? Do we have the skills to develop a board like this? Would we have the patience to work at it for so long? Would we be prepared to travel abroad and sign business deals, personally test 50 units, etc? We should't expect from others what we couldn't imagine doing ourselves. MikeJ's done a lot more than most of us could ever do, and he's created an amazing little board with so much potential. Let's cut him a little slack, give him a chance. Let's not expect perfection or demand the impossible. He's doing the best he can, and he's done a remarkable job so far at that IMO :)
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I have to agree with the posters above me (both in the thread and in knowledge ;)
Let MikeJ and the other "hardcore" people try this out, find obscure bugs and so on, and let the rest of us wait a bit longer before we get our hands on these boards.
Ofcourse, I'd like a board right now, now, before xmas, I'll pay a mountain of money for it .. But I'd also like something that I don't have to deliver bugreports every day for, and something that actually runs the software / games I want :)
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we'll get another board, and that I actually get to order one.
To all of the developers and bugtesters: thankyou for your dedication and hard work.
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I am sure that after the initial 50 boards, another bigger production wil be made and we can buy from Amigakit etc. Hopefully these will come in a nice small case and a backplate ;)
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will this board ever be forsale to the masses seems to be taking ages ,it would have been better if people kept it in the background like natami thingy ,then we wouldnt have to pull our hair out waiting , or is this board just for the elite as usual???????
Don't worry, we get the very same kind of impatient outbursts over at the Natami forums too.
These things don't just materialise out of thin air, you know :lol:
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Surely given that we're Amiga fans, we know how to wait? Mike has obviously been slaving away on this - it's a labour of love.
I'm guessing like a lot of other folks here, I emailed Mike a while ago and am content (though of course keen too!) to wait for the boards to be ready for the masses. Let's do Mike the courtesy of waiting as long as it takes. :)
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will this board ever be forsale to the masses seems to be taking ages ,it would have been better if people kept it in the background like natami thingy ,then we wouldnt have to pull our hair out waiting , or is this board just for the elite as usual???????
First of all, fair comment. It is taking a long time.
Thanks for all the other posters offering support.
20 boards have shipped now. I have about 30 more on my desk, each need some hand assembly, testing, sometimes repair and programming. It takes time. I had all the components here in Europe, but the assembler let me down so I had to ship 10Kg back to China to get everything built. All the connectors were too heavy, so I need to hand build.
I met with the China company last week and we are going to do another bigger run shortly. They will fully build the boards this time.
Unlike NatAmi, this project is fully open. There are other developers with the code, and working on other cores. As soon as I have a stable release of the new core, it will be released, including full source. Then, things will speed up.
Best,
Mike
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Oh, the backplates have been manufactured and are on the way to me now.
They do not include the holes for the 68060 daughter board, we will make another one then - or you can punch your own holes....
/MikeJ
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MikeJ you had better hurry up and ship as many as you can otherwise you may get caught with the looming European financial crisis :eek:
HURRY UP MIKE HURRY UP!
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Oh, the backplates have been manufactured and are on the way to me now.
They do not include the holes for the 68060 daughter board, we will make another one then - or you can punch your own holes....
/MikeJ
MikeJ am I on your list for the first batch? Thanks in advance :)
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will this board ever be forsale to the masses seems to be taking ages ,it would have been better if people kept it in the background like natami thingy ,then we wouldnt have to pull our hair out waiting , or is this board just for the elite as usual???????
Just what is this "Elite" you talk of? The phrase you're looking for is "Betatesters". We're the ones that fork out money (usually more than eventual retail price) to test boards, look for bugs and send it reports to aid development of the final boards. We're the ones that pay for items in advance that don't actually work as intended and have no guarantee that they ever will (Don't believe me? I have a CommodoreOne with Amiga card you can buy off me if you like).
We buy these items to help keep the developer's interest going so that everyone will eventually get a chance to buy one. In the case of the CommodoreOne I mentioned above, that board cost me a nice large 3 figure sum and while it is now dead and buried, it spawned the initial NATAMI development and the Chameleon64, so as far as I'm concerned it was money well spent.
So, who are these "Elite" people you speak of? What is this "as usual"?
Mike has stated that there are more boards to come and he has constantly delivered on his promises.
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Thanks for the update mike.
If I'm not on the list for the first batch, then please put me on the list for the second batch :-)
Can't wait to see the finished product with a working Amiga @ '030/50 speeds!
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I think this project is one of the most useful ever for the Amiga community. The core should guarantee that we won't run out of hardware ever..
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This is a very exciting project and I know I have been waiting with great anticipation. I have been hounding poor Mikej for months about securing a board that he probably has me on an email block by now. I do want to thank folks like Yaqube, Darrin, wizard66, amigadave and the many others who have made the financial commitment to get a beta-board and help with fine tuning of the cores and the board in general. Everyone who is wanting the opportunity to get this board just be patient as many have said to Mike's hard work that he is just one guy doing the job of many.
Firedawg
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Anyone else thinks that the Arcade FPGA has killed the Minimig completely?
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Anyone else thinks that the Arcade FPGA has killed the Minimig completely?
The FPGA Arcade is the next stage in the Minimig's evolution, it didn't kill the Minimig, it ensures it lives on (the Minimig core that is).
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well i see some minimiger bashing going on i had a good point , but all of your points are invalid , as recently i paid 40 pounds for battlefield 3 it has more bugs than you can imagine , and modern warefare 3 guess what more bugs , my point is MW3 has made 1 bilion dollars BF3 alot, so there you go before you all start licking butts and really inside your heads thinking same as me hurrrrryy uppp before we all die, start pushing to get it released before i grow to old to even switch it on:)
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The FPGA Replay will no more 'kill' the original MiniMig board than the release of the Amiga 4000 'killed' the Amiga 1200. It's simply a new option for us to choose from. The Replay complements the MiniMig, it doesn't make it redundant. The Replay will appeal to those of us for whom the original Minimig board was 'not enough', in the same way the Minimig will appeal to those who don't need the extra functionality/abilities of the Replay and are more concerned about getting their 'retro Amiga kick' on a budget than they are about expandability or high-end features.
It market terms, the Minimig is like what the A500+ used to be: a low-cost budget machine above the original Amiga 500, whereas the Replay is the Amiga 1200: the powerful and expandable mid-ranger, whilst the NatAmi is like the Amiga 4000: it's high-end in features but it has a price tag to match. NatAmi will be the most full-featured option and will offer the users most out-of-the-box, but it will also be the most expensive option of the three, because it will offer many features which most people may not even want or have a need for (do we really *need* a full 512MB of RAM, plus IDE support and a floppy disk drive, when we've large SD card capacities now, and can simply ADF up any disks we wish to transfer over and use?)
The Replay is ideally placed in between these two. It leapfrogs the original MiniMig in specifications, offers AGA and 030/040+ speeds, and is much closer to what the NatAmi will offer, whilst keeping costs down by removing unnecessary features which aren't required by the average user. Thanks to it's daughterboard expansion slot and FPGA design, it can also be expanded in both software and hardware capabilities in much the same way an A1200 was expandable into something which could not only match, but even exceed, the out-of-the-box capabilities of the top-of-the-line A4000.
From my point of view, the Replay offers the perfect balance of power, performance, features and expandability and most of all, it does all of this at a very reasonable price. For those who only want A500 capabilities to replay old Amiga games at the cheapest possible price, the original MiniMig design still remains the best option.
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This is a very exciting project and I know I have been waiting with great anticipation. I have been hounding poor Mikej for months about securing a board that he probably has me on an email block by now. I do want to thank folks like Yaqube, Darrin, wizard66, amigadave and the many others who have made the financial commitment to get a beta-board and help with fine tuning of the cores and the board in general. Everyone who is wanting the opportunity to get this board just be patient as many have said to Mike's hard work that he is just one guy doing the job of many.
Firedawg
I'm always happy to support a great project and the FPGA Arcade had me drooling as soon as I heard about it. As a long time Minimig user, I love the FPGA based machines and they get more use than my real Amigas... however I do treasure my A2000 and A4000. :)
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Anyone else thinks that the Arcade FPGA has killed the Minimig completely?
If I had to choose between the two then there is no competition.
What I hope to see is a lot of second hand Minimig v1.1 boards hit the used market so those on a budget who can't justify paying for the FPGA Arcade, Chameleon64 or NATAMI will get a chance to buy one cheap.
Also, if you only want OCS/ECS and to play A500+ games then the Minimig v1.1 is perfect.
Edit: What Shapeshifter said. :D
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I've been waiting forever to get this but may just buy a minimig. I don't think I'll miss aga stuff too much, but thats hard to tell without trying it, and I'm also afraid the minute I buy one something much better will also be available.
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I've been waiting forever to get this but may just buy a minimig. I don't think I'll miss aga stuff too much, but thats hard to tell without trying it, and I'm also afraid the minute I buy one something much better will also be available.
The average Amiga enthusiast is always looking to add extra RAM, a faster CPU, a bigger hard drive, etc regardless of what he buys. :D
If you can get a Minimig on the cheap then I'd say buy one, but if you can hang on then I'd seriously recommend the FPGA Arcade. Especially once additional cores are released.
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Anyone else thinks that the Arcade FPGA has killed the Minimig completely?
Nope, I just turned mine on today after installing it in my new fancy minimig case.
It fired right up...
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The average Amiga enthusiast is always looking to add extra RAM, a faster CPU, a bigger hard drive, etc regardless of what he buys. :D
[..]
I'm always happy to support a great project and the FPGA Arcade had me drooling as soon as I heard about it. As a long time Minimig user, I love the FPGA based machines and they get more use than my real Amigas... however I do treasure my A2000 and A4000. :)
We're totally on the same page here Darrin :) It's strange, but the "Next Gen" PowerPC Amigas and OS4.x for some reason just never excited me in the same way the FPGA Replay has. I think it's because I have always been a "Classic Amiga" fan, and I have never really had much interest or saw much benefit in buying a big, bulky, expensive AmigaNG system just to be able to run a small number of extra apps. I'd rather see evolution and improvement of the classic, and at a low price. Replay is much more in the spirit of what I've been looked and waiting for.
It will replace my expired A4000 very nicely, it's modern, it's compact, it's powerful, it's expandable, and it's NOT emulation but "the real thing."
haywirepc, if expandability is important to you, there's no contest between the two; you have to get a Replay. The MiniMig just isn't designed for expansion. But if the ability to expand isn't important to you, and A500/ECS is enough, then Minimig is perfect, as Darrin said :)
Nope, I just turned mine on today after installing it in my new fancy minimig case.
It fired right up...
:roflmao:
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Can I make an order or pre-order right now? How?
Thnks
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Can I make an order or pre-order right now? How?
If you're interested in getting ahold of a Replay, the best bet is to send a PM or e-mail to MikeJ. He's in the process of getting the latest batch of 50 out to people on his pre-order list. Once that's finished, he's planning to produce a second, much larger batch of Replays. There should be enough for everyone, but it wouldn't hurt to let MikeJ know you're interested :)
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We're totally on the same page here Darrin :) It's strange, but the "Next Gen" PowerPC Amigas and OS4.x for some reason just never excited me in the same way the FPGA Replay has. I think it's because I have always been a "Classic Amiga" fan, and I have never really had much interest or saw much benefit in buying a big, bulky, expensive AmigaNG system just to be able to run a small number of extra apps. I'd rather see evolution and improvement of the classic, and at a low price. Replay is much more in the spirit of what I've been looked and waiting for.
It will replace my expired A4000 very nicely, it's modern, it's compact, it's powerful, it's expandable, and it's NOT emulation but "the real thing."
haywirepc, if expandability is important to you, there's no contest between the two; you have to get a Replay. The MiniMig just isn't designed for expansion. But if the ability to expand isn't important to you, and A500/ECS is enough, then Minimig is perfect, as Darrin said :)
You're exactly right. The FPGA Machines "feel" like real Amigas. The main reason I still use my A2000 and A4000 is simply because of Internet, USB and... RTG! Once my FPGA allows RTG screenmodes and I have access to USB (and the Internet via a USB ethernet dongle) then I doubt that my trusty A4000 will get much use.
I also love it if I screw up my hard drive installation on my Minimig or FPGA Aracde because it just means copying a backup from my laptop onto the SD Card, as opposed to curing and swearing for several hours as I try and restore the Hard Drive on my "real" Amiga. :D
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If you're interested in getting ahold of a Replay, the best bet is to send a PM or e-mail to MikeJ. He's in the process of getting the latest batch of 50 out to people on his pre-order list. Once that's finished, he's planning to produce a second, much larger batch of Replays. There should be enough for everyone, but it wouldn't hurt to let MikeJ know you're interested :)
thank you! do you know what is the current cost?
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Once you have the FPGA board one can always write ones own RTG without contributions of others.
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Once you have the FPGA board one can always write ones own RTG without contributions of others.
I'm an "end user", not a developer. :D
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With VHDL/Verilog knowledge and synthesis software on nearest PC you can make your own cores too.. ;)
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In the past (months ago) I have enquired with MikeJ about the Arcade FPGA but I am not sure I was actually put on a pre-order list. So I messaged him again to make sure that if I am not on the first batch, he puts my name on for the second :)
Do you guys know if he answers messages? He hasn't answered my last few when I enquired if I was on his list :/
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In the past (months ago) I have enquired with MikeJ about the Arcade FPGA but I am not sure I was actually put on a pre-order list. So I messaged him again to make sure that if I am not on the first batch, he puts my name on for the second :)
Do you guys know if he answers messages? He hasn't answered my last few when I enquired if I was on his list :/
I have had good luck receiving replies to emails, or PMails, but sometimes it takes several days to get a reply. He is a busy guy.
I think there is a good chance that you may be on the list already if you asked to be placed on it a while ago. Cross your fingers for luck. :)
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In the past (months ago) I have enquired with MikeJ about the Arcade FPGA but I am not sure I was actually put on a pre-order list. So I messaged him again to make sure that if I am not on the first batch, he puts my name on for the second :)
Do you guys know if he answers messages? He hasn't answered my last few when I enquired if I was on his list :/
He sometimes takes weeks to reply to me. He's a busy man. :)
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In the past (months ago) I have enquired with MikeJ about the Arcade FPGA but I am not sure I was actually put on a pre-order list. So I messaged him again to make sure that if I am not on the first batch, he puts my name on for the second :)
Do you guys know if he answers messages? He hasn't answered my last few when I enquired if I was on his list :/
99% certainty that you are on one of his list if you inquired via private pm. 1% if you inquired elsewhere.
Firedawg
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Should I want to setup arcade FPGA in a nice box under the telly... would there be a way to use a mini, wireless, keyboard trackpad combo, something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nano-Micro-Wireless-Multimedia-Keyboard-and-Mouse-Pad-/280638398391?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_KeyboardsMice&hash=item41575a1fb7
Would the above work with a PS2/USB adapter?
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Seems I am on the list for an FPGA this January =)
BTW any comments on the wireless case question (my post on top of this).
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Seems I am on the list for an FPGA this January =)
BTW any comments on the wireless case question (my post on top of this).
Looks pretty small and could be a pain to navigate and type. I purchased a while back a HP wire USB keyboard (http://www.ebay.com/itm/170736178651?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649) for my home theater which is small, but not too small for typing, and it has a cool mouse type functionality with a roller/button in the upper right of keyboard for navigation and left clicking, and a button in the upper left for right clicking. I have been very happy with it.
Mike
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Thinking about it, most probably I won't even need a keyboard (unless I'm playing pinball dreams) - just a mouse...
One more think, as the Arcade FPGA comes with PS2 connectors, will I be able to use a wireless keyboard/mouse combo with a PS2/USB converter?
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Not unless the keyboard/mouse speaks PS2 protocol over USB - the converter is just a passive adapter. The new Amiga core uses a tiny microcontroller soft core to do the ps2 interface and I am looking at making it speak USB - so then a ps2/usb adapter would work with a true USB device. Something for the future.
Oh, the rear IO panels have arrived :
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
This will be 14 Euro each + shipping. Again, it's the NRE cost which hurts - after the first 100 it will drop a little. I will do another version for the daughterboard and offer a trade in ;)
/MikeJ
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If you do a follow up will it be the same layout or is slight component optimization a possibility?
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Not unless the keyboard/mouse speaks PS2 protocol over USB - the converter is just a passive adapter. The new Amiga core uses a tiny microcontroller soft core to do the ps2 interface and I am looking at making it speak USB - so then a ps2/usb adapter would work with a true USB device. Something for the future.
Oh, the rear IO panels have arrived :
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
This will be 14 Euro each + shipping. Again, it's the NRE cost which hurts - after the first 100 it will drop a little. I will do another version for the daughterboard and offer a trade in ;)
/MikeJ
It looks like it's not compatible with the Rev. B01 boards (protoboards) Mike ?
I hope to get one that will fit the rev B01 with daughtboard :-)
I want my mits on your new core !!!!!!! Mail me anytime !!!!! (hehehe)..
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If you do a follow up will it be the same layout or is slight component optimization a possibility?
Not quite sure what you mean, I'm talking about a softcore update.
The daughter board will add ethernet and usb connectors, maybe digital audio and some other odds and ends which will set just above the current sd/dvi connector.
The io panel just gets some more holes in it.
The base board is staying as it is!
/MikeJ
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I think onboard Ethernet that the ARM CPU can handle would be really useful. And I suspect the first batch will produce some feedback that can be used to improve the next version.
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new io panel looks great... cant wait to get one of these babies... with the io panel of course...
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Not quite sure what you mean, I'm talking about a softcore update.
The daughter board will add ethernet and usb connectors, maybe digital audio and some other odds and ends which will set just above the current sd/dvi connector.
The io panel just gets some more holes in it.
The base board is staying as it is!
/MikeJ
This has probably already been asked, or suggested. Do you have the layout of the daughter board finalized with it's external port placement fixed, so you could make the i/o panels made with easily removable openings for the daughter board ports, in addition to the openings for the Replay board? The ports openings for the daughter board could be cut out all the way except for at two or four slender points of metal holding the closed opening in place that could be easily removed if/when the owner of the Replay board gets a daughter board to add to his Replay system. In this way you could produce one i/o panel for Replay boards with and without the daughter boards.
I hope this makes sense. It is harder to describe than it is to make. :)
Edit: Is the revised daughter board design going to sit above the double height Joystick ports, or will the daughter board have a cut-out to go around the higher ports? I know the first design of the Replay did not have those ports stacked on top of each other and some comment was made which I thought said that the revised daughter board would have a cut-out and go around the stacked ports, so it would not be on top of them. I suppose it could sit on top of the stacked ports, but have the Ethernet and USB ports on the underside of the daughter boards, so that they would still fit in the space of the i/o panel. If the daughter board sits lower and close to the top of the Replay boards FPGA and other chips, will heat be a concern with the reduced airflow?
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Edit: Is the revised daughter board design going to sit above the double height Joystick ports, or will the daughter board have a cut-out to go around the higher ports? I know the first design of the Replay did not have those ports stacked on top of each other and some comment was made which I thought said that the revised daughter board would have a cut-out and go around the stacked ports, so it would not be on top of them. I suppose it could sit on top of the stacked ports, but have the Ethernet and USB ports on the underside of the daughter boards, so that they would still fit in the space of the i/o panel. If the daughter board sits lower and close to the top of the Replay boards FPGA and other chips, will heat be a concern with the reduced airflow?
The daughterboard will sit just above the DVI connector so it will go around the joystick ports and stuff.
Because the daughterboard have to click with the motherboard on the big I/O connector.
The distance is to big for the i/o connector to fit with the daughterboard above the joystickports.
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Correct, it has a cut out for the tall connectors.
I was under some pressure to get the io panel ready for the current board.
I need the final daughterboard to confirm the exact hole position - the NRE is quite expensive for the metalwork. The panels are laser cut, so it's possible to add more holes to the design later.
Heat is not an issue, the base board does not get particularly warm.
Cheers,
Mike
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@mikej
How did I miss this thread, while it got so long?
More importantly, can I order a Replay board? Do you have any in stock? I'm more excited about this than I am about the X1000.
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From the mechanical side, I hope there's room for standoffs on the baseboard such that the daugherboard has something to stand on.
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From the mechanical side, I hope there's room for standoffs on the baseboard such that the daugherboard has something to stand on.
It's about 20mm
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It looks like it's not compatible with the Rev. B01 boards (protoboards) Mike ?
I hope to get one that will fit the rev B01 with daughtboard :-)
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Do you want to try? I just fitted a io panel on the b01 board.
The only difference is the SD card and DVI connector are about 2mm in the wrong place, but a bit of dubious modification should be possible.
/MikeJ
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Do you want to try? I just fitted a io panel on the b01 board.
The only difference is the SD card and DVI connector are about 2mm in the wrong place, but a bit of dubious modification should be possible.
/MikeJ
Nah Mike,
I see you have a option to switch the panel when the daugterboard will be available and you have made a other run of the panels that will fit the daughterboard.
I wait till the daughterboar will be out :-) but thanks anyway for the offer.
I have my replay board all secure in the A590 case so I will fit the panel by then..
Cheers Willem
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Not unless the keyboard/mouse speaks PS2 protocol over USB - the converter is just a passive adapter. The new Amiga core uses a tiny microcontroller soft core to do the ps2 interface and I am looking at making it speak USB - so then a ps2/usb adapter would work with a true USB device. Something for the future.
Oh, the rear IO panels have arrived :
www.fpgaarcade.com (http://www.fpgaarcade.com)
/MikeJ
Ciao Mikej,
I have a CDTV with keyboard, trackball and mouse. Will be there in the future a way to plug these in the ps2 ports and use a modified microcontroller soft-core ?
Thanks.
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What protocol does it speak, does it have a ps2 connector on it?
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The pinout is below, and the keyboard protocol is likely "standard Amiga" ..
The mouse is another problem however. Special pinout and special protocoll. But I think it can be solved with an adapter and new HDL-code (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_description_language).
Keyboard (5 pin mini-DIN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector#5-pin)):
amiga-hardware.com - Commodore: CDTV Keyboard (http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=661)
cdtv.org.uk: Commodore CDTV Expansion Ports Explained (http://web.archive.org/web/20081120095827/http://www.cdtv.org.uk/1295.html)
l8r.net: Amiga Keyboard Pinouts (http://www.l8r.net/technical/t-keyboard.shtml)
Pin Signal
1 GND
2 KBDATA
3 KBCLOCK
4 Vcc
5 KBSE
6
Mouse (4 pin mini-DIN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN_connector#4-pin)):
cdtv.org.uk: Commodore CDTV Expansion Ports Explained (http://web.archive.org/web/20081120095827/http://www.cdtv.org.uk/1295.html) from link at abime.net (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=35998)
Pin Signal
1 GND
2 GND
3 PRDT (Mouse Data?)
4 +5V
(pain in the ass to find out)
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@ Mikej and freqmax:
Thanks, I'm sorry if I've caused trouble ! I was and I am an almost complete noobie in Amiga World (Im basically a Sinclairist); anyway I think that the implementation at least of original pluggable keyboards of various Amiga models (4000, CDTV, etc) could be quite....interesting.
Thanks again.
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@ Mikej and freqmax:
Thanks, I'm sorry if I've caused trouble ! I was and I am an almost complete noobie in Amiga World (Im basically a Sinclairist); anyway I think that the implementation at least of original pluggable keyboards of various Amiga models (4000, CDTV, etc) could be quite....interesting.
I asked Yacubed about this, as I too would love to use a real, genuine Amiga keyboard with the Replay. I was told that, whilst it would be possible to support it in the Minimig core, the onscreen-menu of the Replay itself also requires a keyboard and not just the Amiga core itself.
So then the question becomes: Which keyboard protocol should be the default at power-on of the Replay board itself? If it's Amiga, then PS/2 keyboards used by most people won't work. If it's PS/2, Amiga keyboards won't work. Since the Replay is meant to be used to power many different cores (not just Amiga), it's easier just to stick to PS/2 keyboard support for the time being.
Oh, and welcome to the world of Amiga, Cignale! It's always nice to welcome someone new to our humble little community :)
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I think personally it should support ps2 keyboards, plenty of them and more reliable than older Amiga keyboards.
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Well,
obviously ps2 standard keyboard and mouse are the real choice for a FPGA based machine. And now I understand the difficulties about using other key/mouse standards.
Anyway, just for the sake of discussion, I wonder if could be possible to implement, just at the power on of the board a "timed choice" : "You have 5 seconds to press any key on a original Amiga keyboard, otherwise the system will be started in ps2 keyboard mode". Is this feasible or the different pin coding of different keyboard standards can fry something if I plug an Amiga keyboard on Fpga Arcade with ps2 core preinstalled or viceversa ?
@ShapeShifter - thanks for the welcome :)
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Yacubed and I are working in different areas at the moment.
I am using a small micro-core to control the PS2 ports, and this could be made to cope with various input devices.
It would need to translate to some standard codes back to the ARM processor to drive the OSD, but this is do-able.
/Mike
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These are good news, Mikej :).
Thanks.
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@mikej, How tight is code space?
Selection can be done by pressing some Amiga keyboard specific key.
A note thoe, all Amiga keyboards seems to use their own unique pinout. So a heap of adapters will be needed. Otoh, one use a Amiga->PS/2 keycode translator when at it anyway ;)
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Thinking about it, most probably I won't even need a keyboard (unless I'm playing pinball dreams) - just a mouse...
One more think, as the Arcade FPGA comes with PS2 connectors, will I be able to use a wireless keyboard/mouse combo with a PS2/USB converter?
Not unless the keyboard/mouse speaks PS2 protocol over USB - the converter is just a passive adapter. The new Amiga core uses a tiny microcontroller soft core to do the ps2 interface and I am looking at making it speak USB - so then a ps2/usb adapter would work with a true USB device. Something for the future.
Oh, the rear IO panels have arrived :
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
This will be 14 Euro each + shipping. Again, it's the NRE cost which hurts - after the first 100 it will drop a little. I will do another version for the daughterboard and offer a trade in ;)
/MikeJ
For anyone interested, I found something that looks like it would do the trick but it's very expensive for what it is.
In reality, it's probably just a PIC micro-controller with USB support, bit-banging the PS/2 protocol.
I suspect there are plenty of USB and PS/2 PIC code examples floating about on the net so building a similar contraption should be pretty much a case of cut'n'pate with the existing examples.
http://www.kvm.com.au/store/product.aspx?ProductID=5524&CategoryID=311
(http://www.kvm.com.au/store/product.aspx?ProductID=5524&CategoryID=311)
This is my first post, but I've been watching this thread from the beginning, but now that things are getting closer I must say....
.... I wan't one.
I'll send a PM & email for you to add me to your list shortly.
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Bit banging in a CPU infer the risk of unreliable operation.
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Bit banging in a CPU infer the risk of unreliable operation.
That's a massive generalisation! I've never hand any problems, interrupts are your friend ;)
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Interrupt congestion and timing margins are your suprise attacks ;)
Especially if you have to deal with other time critical events simultainously.
Another possibility is a microcontroller like Atmel-AVR that translate between PS/2 and "Amiga". The CDTV mouse is in particular an protocoll anomality.
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I am using a slightly shrunk picoblaze core to do the protocol and keyboard handling - it takes less area than the current VHDL implementation. The software can be changed to enable different keyboards.
/MikeJ
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Wow, what a thread I stumbled upon. Had my share of Amigas - heck, the A1000 is still in the basement, but the A500, A600, A2000, A3000, CDTV and CD32 are all long gone. This project looks fascinating. From the layman's POV, can "just anybody" order up and assemble one of these boards into a working Amiga? What's involved? Who do I talk to, and is there a ballpark cost estimate for what's needed? Thanks in advance.
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Wow, what a thread I stumbled upon. Had my share of Amigas - heck, the A1000 is still in the basement, but the A500, A600, A2000, A3000, CDTV and CD32 are all long gone. This project looks fascinating. From the layman's POV, can "just anybody" order up and assemble one of these boards into a working Amiga? What's involved? Who do I talk to, and is there a ballpark cost estimate for what's needed? Thanks in advance.
Email/PM "MikeJ" above and he'll add you to the list to receive an assembled board once each batch is completed.
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Just to kill some time until Arcade FPGA is out, I decided to prepare an HDF image using WinUAE. Once the FPGA is in my hands, how would I 'boot' from the HDF image? Would it be just a matter of copying the HDF image to the SDCard? Can I have more than 1 HDF image (one for DH0, other for DH1, etc) and use them with Arcade FPGA?
Thanks!
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Would in the future be possible to use usb ports in the replay?. I'm really interested in that feature because i could use an amiga1200 keyboard i have here, and would fit perfectly along his desktop case ;). Anyway, i have a ps2 keyboard waiting while it gets done :).
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For anyone interested, I found something that looks like it would do the trick but it's very expensive for what it is.
In reality, it's probably just a PIC micro-controller with USB support, bit-banging the PS/2 protocol.
I suspect there are plenty of USB and PS/2 PIC code examples floating about on the net so building a similar contraption should be pretty much a case of cut'n'pate with the existing examples.
http://www.kvm.com.au/store/product.aspx?ProductID=5524&CategoryID=311
(http://www.kvm.com.au/store/product.aspx?ProductID=5524&CategoryID=311)
This is my first post, but I've been watching this thread from the beginning, but now that things are getting closer I must say....
.... I wan't one.
I'll send a PM & email for you to add me to your list shortly.
I too want the new Minimig. I currently have the soon to be obsolete Minimig 1.1 (with all the options) and its an amazing little machine with a 68000 that runs like an 030 :)
Anyway, the device you linked too looks a lot like this device I purchased to put my Minimig on my 4-port KVM which is USB only. I'm coding an application where I need to switch between my PC and Minimig frequently to test.
Anyway, I got this product that looks a lot like the one in your link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200976&Tpk=ps22usb
It does work with the keyboard, however the mouse only seems to move up and to the right while randomly pressing the right mouse button. The converter is a partial success because two mice is way better than two keyboards and it does cause my KVM to see a computer on that port. Otherwise the KVM would just bypass that port.
The converter works (with the mouse) on my Amiga 1200 with the COCOLINO PS2 mouse adapter.
Oh, also, I originally intended the converter to let me use the more modern 2.4 GHZ wireless mice with my 1200. It does not seem to work with any wireless USB mice. I ended up tracking down a NOS Logitech 2.4 GHZ mouse with backwards compatibility with PS2.
good luck :)
nate
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Just to kill some time until Arcade FPGA is out, I decided to prepare an HDF image using WinUAE. Once the FPGA is in my hands, how would I 'boot' from the HDF image? Would it be just a matter of copying the HDF image to the SDCard? Can I have more than 1 HDF image (one for DH0, other for DH1, etc) and use them with Arcade FPGA?
Thanks!
Anyone? Thanks =)
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I'm also waiting for my FPGA ARCADE to arrive, but I've been using a Minimig from 2008.
So I suppose it will work like the original Minimig core: you'll be able to select one or two HDF files in your SD card and the core will boot from the master one if you provide a KICKSTART ROM wich has the IDE driver (3.1 from A600 or A1200).
You can create the empty HDF files however you like (I simply dd them in Linux) , but you should partition and format them in the FPGA Arcade with the OS 3.x install disk (not sure if it's mandatory but I believe it is).
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So I cannot create a ready-to-go HDF file with WinUAE and then just boot it in Arcade FPGA?
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Anyone? Thanks =)
You can USE 2 HDF files on the Replay at the same time.
I have 2 HDF Files from 4 GB on my replay (fat32 sdcarts handle 4gb max per files)
My HDF Files:
1. dh0: 500MB WB and dh1: 3.5GB Work.
2.dh2: 4GB whdload all hdf's use PFS3.
Creating HDF files on WinUAE:
Use 4000MB for a partition and use ide0 and/or ide1 for HD controller.
Enable RDB mode otherwise it will not work on the Replayboard.
With partitioning the drives don't forget to set the maxtransfer to 0x1FE00 because otherwise you will have read/write errors after some time.
I hope this info will be of any use Happy holidays.
P.S I just created a HDF file from 4050MB with UAE looks like this is also working on the replay but not tested in full yet (4094 or 4095MB is not working)..
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Thanks a lot wizard66 =)
Just a question... how "different" is the feel when you are playing on Arcade FPGA, say to a real Amiga? Can you sense "something is not quite right" - or it is as perfect as it can be =)
Thanks and happy holidays to you too =)
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What can I say Nostromo ;-)
This is a real Amiga, feel and gameplay is the real thing for me.
After Using WINUAE and other amigalike systems I have build some minimig's (see sig).
And that also feels like a real amiga (500).
The FPGA Replay is the next gen classic AGA Amiga (A1200) lots of memory (64MB) lots off speed faster as a blizzard 1230 MKIV (68030@50 Mhz) RTG (after core update).
So I Can really comment the FPGA Replay to all....
I have installed workbench 3.1 and betterWB on it and other stuff this is working great.
OS 3.9 is not running out off the box yet but I hope with the new core update it will.
Thanks a lot wizard66 =)
Just a question... how "different" is the feel when you are playing on Arcade FPGA, say to a real Amiga? Can you sense "something is not quite right" - or it is as perfect as it can be =)
Thanks and happy holidays to you too =)
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Thanks for your feedback... I was asking because you know, A1200 + Accelerator + Indivision costs I believe twice the price of an arcade FPGA, if not more.
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Thanks for your feedback... I was asking because you know, A1200 + Accelerator + Indivision costs I believe twice the price of an arcade FPGA, if not more.
Yes That's true and now you have all this in new hardware on a smaller footprint and is working with LCD DVI/VGA (so don't forget there is also a 24bit scandoubler inside ;-) )
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Yeah, space is very important for me, I barely have any here =)
BTW I am trying to setup a 4GB HDF in UAE as you said... but HDToolBox does not detect any hard drive.
I did this in WinUAE:
0. Load WinUAE as administrator
1. Add Hardfile
2. 4000MB
3. Selected OFS/FFS/RDB
4. Enabled RDB mode
5. IDE0 as HD Controller
6. Boot from floppy (WB3.1 install)
7. Launch HDTOOLBOX -> nothing detected
:( What's broken? Thanks!
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Nevermind, I managed =)
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Thanks for your feedback... I was asking because you know, A1200 + Accelerator + Indivision costs I believe twice the price of an arcade FPGA, if not more.
Just to add to Wizzard's comments, I've been using a Minimig since the aCube boards were available and I've been using the FPGA Arcade for a long time. I've been using a 68000 version of ClassicWB with no issues (the OS3.9 version of ClassicWB has some problems at the moment which I hope will vanish with the next core update).
Both FPGA solutions run and feel like "real" Amigas. The only differences are the second or two the core takes to load when you first switch it on and using ADF files instead of floppies, which actually comes as a relief considering the number of floppy disks I now have errors on them.
If you have some spare time on your hands then I also recommend making ADFs of your floppy collection while you wait. "TSGUI" on Aminet is an excellent program to use for this purpose.
Right now I'm using a 4GB card on each machine. I have a 2GB Hard File which included WHDLoad and a selection of my favourite games. The rest of the card is for the core files, ADF images and ROM images.
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Thanks Darrin for your input m8ty ;-)
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Thanks Darrin for your input m8ty ;-)
Welcome as always. I just hope we get that OS3.9 running smoothly. Roll on the core update.
Meanwhile, I need to upgrade my Chameleon64 Minimig core. I brought a IR CDTV remote back from the UK with me (Thanks AmigaKit) so I should be able to play games with a little more ease now.
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Thanks guys for the feedback. :)
On a sidenote, I made 1 HDF file using WinUAE, and divided it into 2 partitions (500mb for Workbench and 3500mb for WHDLOAD). Every time I format the 3500mb partition I get a "Non Valid DOS disk" error.
I still can view the HDD and everything (says 3500mb free) but I dont want to have a duff partition which is a time bomb :)
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Thanks guys for the feedback. :)
On a sidenote, I made 1 HDF file using WinUAE, and divided it into 2 partitions (500mb for Workbench and 3500mb for WHDLOAD). Every time I format the 3500mb partition I get a "Non Valid DOS disk" error.
I still can view the HDD and everything (says 3500mb free) but I dont want to have a duff partition which is a time bomb :)
Strange, there shouldn't be a problem creating the two partitions within the hard file. Personally, I just stick to 1 partition and I have a folder for WHDLoad.
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Thanks guys for the feedback. :)
On a sidenote, I made 1 HDF file using WinUAE, and divided it into 2 partitions (500mb for Workbench and 3500mb for WHDLOAD). Every time I format the 3500mb partition I get a "Non Valid DOS disk" error.
I still can view the HDD and everything (says 3500mb free) but I dont want to have a duff partition which is a time bomb :)
Try installing betterWB after os3.1 install http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/BetterWB.htm
It will include PFS (filesystem for hardrives >2GB)
You can then use hdtoolbox and use PSF on your 3.5GB partition for use with harddrives bigger then 2GB.
Just read the PFS3 readmeFile for more info..
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Is it possible to use a harddrive image with kickstart/Workbench 1.3 on an FPGAArcade/minimig?
One of the systems I'm hoping to replace is an A500 with an A590.
Thanks.
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Is it possible to use a harddrive image with kickstart/Workbench 1.3 on an FPGAArcade/minimig?
One of the systems I'm hoping to replace is an A500 with an A590.
Thanks.
Hmmm... never tried myself. I'll have to give it a try. It will be WB1.3 running with KS3.1 though.
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One more question =)
I am trying to mount 2 .hdf files in Winuae, but the HD Installer only sees one. What IDE Device I have to select for each?
Thanks!
Ok I got around this too :)
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@Darrin: How compatible is your Chameleon64 compared to the original Minimig? I've the Chameleon too and I find it's rather incompatible at the moment... Lost Vikings or Ishar won't play (black screens, gurus...) and they are perfect with the Minimig 1.1.
I'm using the exact same HDF I use in the Minimig, just copied it over to the Chameleon.
Sorry for the little offtopic...
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Hmm can anyone point me to a couple of good videos of Arcade FPGA running Amiga core?
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@Darrin: How compatible is your Chameleon64 compared to the original Minimig? I've the Chameleon too and I find it's rather incompatible at the moment... Lost Vikings or Ishar won't play (black screens, gurus...) and they are perfect with the Minimig 1.1.
I'm using the exact same HDF I use in the Minimig, just copied it over to the Chameleon.
Sorry for the little offtopic...
Like you, I started testing using the same HDF I use on my Minimig v1.1 and I found that certain games that worked on the v1.1 wouldn't on the Chameleon. I put this down to either the early version of the Minimig core containing bugs, the soft 68000 containing bugs or a combination of both. As the Chameleon64 core lacked joystick support I was also forced to test games using the keyboard keypad. I eventually gave up in frustration. There is now an updated core available for me to test, plus I have the CDTV controller to use as a joystick so once I have some time I'll start testing again.
I'd like to have the updated FPGA Arcade core first so that I can test games on all 3 FPGA solutions at the same time.
At this moment in time, the Minimig v1.1 is the most stable/compatable solution, probably due to the length of time that has been spent tweaking the core, plus it actually uses a real 68000.
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I am nearly done setting up 2 HDFs for use with Arcade FPGA. Can someone suggest me a good WHDLoad Front-End? Thanks!
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I am nearly done setting up 2 HDFs for use with Arcade FPGA. Can someone suggest me a good WHDLoad Front-End? Thanks!
To be honest, if you REALLY want to make WHDLoad simple then download the ClassicWB 68000 "LITE" installation because it is already set up for WHDLoad. Just add KG's game packs into the folder marked "GAMES" and copy over the Kickstart files needed.
http://classicwb.abime.net/classicweb/lite.htm
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@Darrin, actually the MC68SEC000 cpu used is not fully compatible. It misses E-clock, and MOVE sr, is privileged. But I guess it has little practical impact.
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@Darrin, actually the MC68SEC000 cpu used is not fully compatible. It misses E-clock, and MOVE sr, is privileged. But I guess it has little practical impact.
Cheers for the info. As you say, in practical use it doesn't seem to be affected. At least not with the software I've used so far. :)
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Is it possible to use a harddrive image with kickstart/Workbench 1.3 on an FPGAArcade/minimig?
One of the systems I'm hoping to replace is an A500 with an A590.
Thanks.
I think you need to use romsplit to split apart both the A500 1.3 rom and the A600 (2 or 3.x) ROM and use remus to make a 1.3 rom with with the newer ROMs scsi.device.
I have never tried this.
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How does one split the ROM?, or rather extract and insert object (driver) files from the binary ROM blob?
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How does one split the ROM?, or rather extract and insert object (driver) files from the binary ROM blob?
I just fond this info on romsplit, might it help in getting 3.9 running.
http://wiki.classicamiga.com/Kickstart_3.9#How_to_make_a_Kickstart_3.9_ROM_set (http://wiki.classicamiga.com/Kickstart_3.9#How_to_make_a_Kickstart_3.9_ROM_set)
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I too want the new Minimig. I currently have the soon to be obsolete Minimig 1.1 (with all the options) and its an amazing little machine with a 68000 that runs like an 030 :)
Anyway, the device you linked too looks a lot like this device I purchased to put my Minimig on my 4-port KVM which is USB only. I'm coding an application where I need to switch between my PC and Minimig frequently to test.
Anyway, I got this product that looks a lot like the one in your link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200976&Tpk=ps22usb
It does work with the keyboard, however the mouse only seems to move up and to the right while randomly pressing the right mouse button. The converter is a partial success because two mice is way better than two keyboards and it does cause my KVM to see a computer on that port. Otherwise the KVM would just bypass that port.
The converter works (with the mouse) on my Amiga 1200 with the COCOLINO PS2 mouse adapter.
Oh, also, I originally intended the converter to let me use the more modern 2.4 GHZ wireless mice with my 1200. It does not seem to work with any wireless USB mice. I ended up tracking down a NOS Logitech 2.4 GHZ mouse with backwards compatibility with PS2.
good luck :)
nate
Yes, it looks like the same sort of device. A better price though, although I'm tempted to see how cheap I can build one, just for something to do. If I come up with something super cheap, I'll report it back to the forum with schematics, code etc.
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Cheers for the info. As you say, in practical use it doesn't seem to be affected. At least not with the software I've used so far. :)
I found a couple of Whdload games that work on the same configuration on UAE and are supposed to be working in a plain 68000 (meeting the small memory reqs, etc) but don't work on the original Minimig 1.1 board. Rainbow Islands is one of them, I don't remember the other. Maybe those small differences in the 68EC000 are the cause...
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Hi,
A brief update. I've received a lot of PMs and emails asking for status, and I haven't got around to answering them all yet. I am working through my list sending out first a quote and then payment details just before the board ships. I have shipped another 5 today.
Everybody who emails me is in the offer queue. It's taking longer than I hoped as I have some bad regulator ICs which need to be replaced, and this takes some time per board.
Things will get faster shortly when I start to receive fully assembled boards directly from the factory, the hand finishing and testing takes forever.
Best,
MikeJ
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Thanks for the update! Any idea when the fully boards will start shipping out from the factory? Cheers and happy new year =)
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Oh, side question, can I fit the Arcade FPGA inside a Mini ITX without any hacks/etc including PSU? Was thinking of buying one for when I get this baby :)
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Hi,
Things will get faster shortly when I start to receive fully assembled boards directly from the factory, the hand finishing and testing takes forever.
Best,
MikeJ
Hey Mike,
If there is room to do so, can I get you to sign my board? :)
Mike
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LOL, I was gonna ask him sign my board too =)
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Something for the silk screen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printed_circuit_board#Screen_printing)
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Yes, it fits just fine in a mini-itx case.
You will need the atx psu controller board as well if you wish to turn on/off the internal supply.
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/itx_2.jpg
All the first batch have a hand written serial number :
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/replay_b02_back.jpg
will that do :)
/MikeJ
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How much is the controller board for that? Cheers!
I assume that without controller board it won't be possible to switch off the system from the front of the case, only by switching off at the wall socket?
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All the first batch have a hand written serial number :
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/replay_b02_back.jpg
will that do :)
/MikeJ
It will do! As I know you are tight on time with getting everything done.:juggler:
Mike
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Getting sick of seeing this thread and thought i'd have a look to see what it was all about. I did and I have to say,
@thread:
tl;dr.
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tl;dr. ?
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Getting sick of seeing this thread and thought i'd have a look to see what it was all about. I did and I have to say,
@thread:
tl;dr.
Too long; Did not Read.
Well, with over 138,000 views, there are many of us that have been watching this thread very closely and like what we have seen.
If you need a summary of what the FPGA Arcade Replay board is, visit MikeJ's website and have a look around.
In just a few short words, I would describe it as a step above and beyond the MiniMig v1.1 that can run a modified core which includes AGA and is capable of running at a speed that is comparable to a 68020 @ 50MHz (or was that a 68030 @ 50MHz?). The CPU is a softcore on the main Replay board, so it is only limited by the efficiency of the softcore code and the timing frequency of the FPGA itself. It comes with 64mb RAM.
It will soon have a daughter card that will have additional RAM, USB ports, Ethernet, and a socket that you can install your own 68060 CPU into and clock it up to 100MHz or beyond, depending on which revision mask of the 68060 you provide for it.
It is a very promising project and MikeJ has been very receptive in listening to, and providing feedback to potential customers.
I showed the FPGA Arcade Replay board at the AmiWest 2011 Show last October and it generated a lot of excitement and interest.
I can't remember any other threads on this site that have had over 138,000 views and over 1,300 replies. It is pretty clear that it will be a successful product when it is finally available in greater numbers.
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Another thing is that it feels nice to have stated this thread :) And I expect that it will live on for a while aswell. Like the C64-DTV threads over at the petscii place. It was very nice while the C64DTV was in its glory days. Now that it is fully explored (more or less) -- interest has slowed down. I believe the FPGA Arcade board + its daughterboard will keep this thread alive for months to come.
And it is very impressing that Mike (and Yauqube?) follows it and replies to all our questions. Where does he find time :)
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Too long; Did not Read.
Well, with over 138,000 views, there are many of us that have been watching this thread very closely and like what we have seen.
If you need a summary of what the FPGA Arcade Replay board is, visit MikeJ's website and have a look around.
In just a few short words, I would describe it as a step above and beyond the MiniMig v1.1 that can run a modified core which includes AGA and is capable of running at a speed that is comparable to a 68020 @ 50MHz (or was that a 68030 @ 50MHz?). The CPU is a softcore on the main Replay board, so it is only limited by the efficiency of the softcore code and the timing frequency of the FPGA itself. It comes with 64mb RAM.
It will soon have a daughter card that will have additional RAM, USB ports, Ethernet, and a socket that you can install your own 68060 CPU into and clock it up to 100MHz or beyond, depending on which revision mask of the 68060 you provide for it.
It is a very promising project and MikeJ has been very receptive in listening to, and providing feedback to potential customers.
I showed the FPGA Arcade Replay board at the AmiWest 2011 Show last October and it generated a lot of excitement and interest.
I can't remember any other threads on this site that have had over 138,000 views and over 1,300 replies. It is pretty clear that it will be a successful product when it is finally available in greater numbers.
Very cool. Do we know how much its gonna cost yet?
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Will it run OS3.9? And will 3.9 be able to use the USB ports? Also, how about some PCI slots? And maybe make it fit in an ATX case :)
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Will it run OS3.9? And will 3.9 be able to use the USB ports? Also, how about some PCI slots? And maybe make it fit in an ATX case :)
I have it partially running OS3.9 at the moment (a couple of bugs/missing instructions in the soft CPU core are causing issues, but these will be fixed, or may already be fixed with new updates). As a result, the USB stack will be available to 3.1 and 3.9.
I believe the plan is still to use the freely available Poseidon stack which, IMHO, is bloody fantastic (I use it on my A4000) with the Deneb.
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A couple of questions :)
1. Is it possible to use a Scart/RGB cable with the arcade FPGA?
2. I know that some modern monitors have problems with Minimig because they don't go down to 50hz, and even if they do, sometimes the scrolling is far from perfect. As the A.FPGA has DVI out, if I connect DVI to HDMI (to a TV), will I get perfect scrolling everytime and of course 50hz support?
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I believe the plan is still to use the freely available Poseidon stack which, IMHO, is bloody fantastic (I use it on my A4000) with the Deneb.
Correct, we have licensed the stack and Jakub has it running on the daughter board.
/MikeJ
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A couple of questions :)
1. Is it possible to use a Scart/RGB cable with the arcade FPGA?
2. I know that some modern monitors have problems with Minimig because they don't go down to 50hz, and even if they do, sometimes the scrolling is far from perfect. As the A.FPGA has DVI out, if I connect DVI to HDMI (to a TV), will I get perfect scrolling everytime and of course 50hz support?
1 - yes, if you use a dvi to vga adapter you can use a standard minimig style Scart cable.
2 - If the TV supports 50Hz vertical then it will look fine. I am running it here with DVI to HDMI and it looks good, although the current shipping core does not have DVI enabled. I am working on this now.
/MikeJ
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Correct, we have licensed the stack and Jakub has it running on the daughter board.
/MikeJ
Thanks for the confirmation there Mike. It's a great stack and I personally use it to run a USB Ethernet dongle, floppy drive, hard drives, memory sticks, memory cards (via adapters) and DVD+RW.
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2 - If the TV supports 50Hz vertical then it will look fine. I am running it here with DVI to HDMI and it looks good, although the current shipping core does not have DVI enabled. I am working on this now.
/MikeJ
I guess all PAL TVs support 50Hz? Or I'm mixing things up?
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I guess all PAL TVs support 50Hz? Or I'm mixing things up?
Yep, PAL TVs will be OK. You just have to watch out for some (most?) NTSC only TVs.
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Yep, PAL TVs will be OK. You just have to watch out for some (most?) NTSC only TVs.
OK great.
As for RGB/Scart, this will do then?
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=919
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OK great.
As for RGB/Scart, this will do then?
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=919
Remember that the FPGA Arcade has a DVI output and that cable goes from VGA to SCART. I use a DVI-VGA cable to connect to a monitor sho you'll need a DVI-VGA adapter for that cable.
Be aware that I bought some DVI-VGA adapaters to use a straight VGA-VGA cable and they didn't work, so be careful what you purchase.
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I have a bunch of DVI-VGA adapters, will then connect the DVI -> SCART cable to that.
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I have a bunch of DVI-VGA adapters, will then connect the DVI -> SCART cable to that.
"Should" work... in theory. Unless you end up with a bunch of adapters like I got. :)
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I already have a bunch of adapters to test with =)
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Time for an DVI -> SCART cable? ;)
(less connectors that degrade the signal)
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Sure why not? :) I want one ;)
By the way, layman question here.
Is the Amiga core for FPGA built around WinUAE or something else?
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Did anyone from the Viva Amiga Documentary ever contact Mike J and interview him about the Replay project... It would be a tragedy if this wonderful device was not included in the section they are doing on modern amigas.
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I think Dennis that showed it actually could be done despite all nay-sayers, is one to interview.
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@Mike:
-How finished is the current core and approx. when will it be out
-When will the new arm firmware be out which will enable 15kHz ?
-Could you put a screenshot on fpgaarcade.com of the daughterboardstatus ?
Yes -- xmas is over, and we crave for more news :-)
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Sure why not? :) I want one ;)
By the way, layman question here.
Is the Amiga core for FPGA built around WinUAE or something else?
The FPGAArcade Amiga-core is actually a re-implementation of the classic Amiga hardware, rather than an emulation like WinUAE.
An FPGA is a device that has a large number of components that can 'programmed' to act as transistors or logic gates. Thus it can implement the classic Amiga hardware at a logic level. The FPGA also includes blocks of RAM and other functions (PCI interfaces, USB interfaces, memory interfaces) that are needed in most devices.
Of course, without access to the original Amiga hardware designs, the implementation is based upon the available documentation and reverse engineering. That often involves re-implementing the original hardware bugs!
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Thanks for an answer I could actually understand =)
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It's also worth adding to Hattig's elegant description, that one of the unique advantages of reproducing the Amiga technology in this particular way is that the hardware designs aren't set in stone (or rather silicon, in this case!). This means the design can tweaked, refined, upgraded and improved as developers create ever-better ways of doing things. This can include finding ways of sidestepping old limitations, or even removing them altogether.
For example: The Amiga AGA chip set was coded to support a fixed 2MB of CHIP RAM. This limited the resolutions etc. which could be supported. That limitation has been removed completely in Minimig AGA / FPGAArcade Replay, which can support unto 50MB CHIP RAM.
Also, one question which comes up a lot is what kind of CPU the Replay etc. reproduces. This question can actually result in confusing or imprecise answers, because it's possible to do things in FPGA which were never done in silicon. For example, what would you rather have: A 68060 running at 100MHz but which is less compatible with software than a 68020 -- or an 68020 which runs at speeds which outperform an 68060, yet has the advantage of offering better compatibility?
I think we'd all prefer the 68020 - but if it makes us feel better, we can call it an 68050 or an 68070, or if NatAmi objects we can call it something else, it really doesn't matter. What matters is what kind of performance we can achieve whilst preserving maximum compatibility too.
In the same way that CPUs can be tweaked and improved over the original designs, the Amiga's graphical and sound capabilities can be enhanced, as well. We can incorporate chunky modes into our FPGA implementation alongside enhanced AGA modes. It can be like having the AAA chipset and a Picasso graphics card as well, all coded into FPGA!
So, not only is the FPGAArcade Replay not emulation, but it also goes beyond simple cloning too. This allows for the Amiga's design, chip set, to be further improved beyond the capabilities of the original. :)
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Sorry but I am curious, how is implemented the Kickstart?
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Sorry but I am curious, how is implemented the Kickstart?
Like UAE, you copy your own Kickstart from ROM to a file and load it onto the SD card. When the FPGA Arcade Replay board or MiniMig are turned on the Kickstart file and workbench, or game are loaded into the FPGA chip right after the core that turns the FPGA into a device that acts like the Amiga hardware.
Or something like that. :)
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Just a thought regarding the FPGA Arcade CPU (ARM). Will it be possible to reprogram it without additional tools lika physical JTAG programmer? ie special file on the SD-card?
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Just a thought regarding the FPGA Arcade CPU (ARM). Will it be possible to reprogram it without additional tools lika physical JTAG programmer? ie special file on the SD-card?
Do you mean for reflashing the firmware (like on the bare Minimig where you have to use the serial port)? Yes, you can simply reflash by putting a file on the SD card and then accessing the OSM "Firmware/update" option.
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Thats far better than what you had to do on a minimig :)
Darrin do you know if say, different cores are available (for different systems), if it will be possible to have a menu on switch asking you which core you would like to load (for example Amiga, C64, Atari ST, etc).
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Thats far better than what you had to do on a minimig :)
Darrin do you know if say, different cores are available (for different systems), if it will be possible to have a menu on switch asking you which core you would like to load (for example Amiga, C64, Atari ST, etc).
There are different cores available now (there's a VIC core - which I haven't got working because I have to add some files) and supposedly some arcade games (which I haven't got my hands on) and others are in development (but I have no idea what stage they're in - Chameleon64 just got a Spectrum core so I'm sure we'll see that soon). Mike said that he would try and get some sort of menu to select between multiple cores. Failing that, you'll just need a collection of cheap SD Cards.
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Do you mean for reflashing the firmware (like on the bare Minimig where you have to use the serial port)? Yes, you can simply reflash by putting a file on the SD card and then accessing the OSM "Firmware/update" option.
Yeah the code that controls the ARM-CPU, that controls the FPGA.. ;)
Guess the catch is that you can brick the ARM, so that one need hardcore tools anyway to rectify such situation. The intent is ofcourse to be able test new code ;)
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One board ordered (presumably from batch 2) :)
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Anyone knows about a SEGA/SNES core for the FPGA Arcade?
Would be neat to just jack one of these Retrode (http://www.retrode.org/) babes in via USB and play straight from the cartridge :D
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Anyone knows about a SEGA/SNES core for the FPGA Arcade?
Would be neat to just jack one of these Retrode (http://www.retrode.org/) babes in via USB and play straight from the cartridge :D
Dont forget that any emulators that exist for the Amiga will also run on the Amiga core, so we'll be able to run stuff for the 68k Mac, Speccy, BBC, etc from there until native cores become available.
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True :D
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And it's actually possible to stuff the HDL code for existing implementations of 68k Mac, Speccy, BBC, etc into your own synthesizer software and use the resulting bitfile (core). :p ;)
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Loooong time lurker here. I have let Mike know I want 2 from the second batch (I want 1 for my desktop and 1 for my arcade cab)
I have 2 questions
1. I have a miracle keyboard that plugs into the Amiga's serial port, will the replay have the option of adding a 25 pin serial port?
2. The bus on the ocs was 7mhz, aga 14mhz, are there any plans to increase the chip bus to say 21 or 28mhz?
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Dont forget that any emulators that exist for the Amiga will also run on the Amiga core, so we'll be able to run stuff for the 68k Mac, Speccy, BBC, etc from there until native cores become available.
But with Retrode you can jack in the original game pads too.
No need for keyboard steering (although the controls is presented as an USB keyboard) or building your own interface for the FPGA Arcade. :idea:
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Loooong time lurker here. I have let Mike know I want 2 from the second batch (I want 1 for my desktop and 1 for my arcade cab)
I have 2 questions
1. I have a miracle keyboard that plugs into the Amiga's serial port, will the replay have the option of adding a 25 pin serial port?
2. The bus on the ocs was 7mhz, aga 14mhz, are there any plans to increase the chip bus to say 21 or 28mhz?
1. It has a 9 pin serial on the back and enough io pins on the patch panel if you fancy wiring up and adapter. It also has two cable headers with more io pins where you can connect to an adapter (should one exist).
2. yup.
/MikeJ
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1. It has a 9 pin serial on the back and enough io pins on the patch panel if you fancy wiring up and adapter. It also has two cable headers with more io pins where you can connect to an adapter (should one exist).
2. yup.
/MikeJ
That is good news, as I also have a Miracle Piano keyboard that I would like to be able to use with the Replay board. Of course I would need instructions on how to make an adapter to get it connected and working, if something more complicated than a simple 9pin to 23pin Serial port adapter is required.
Maybe someone else with mechanical ability and electronic smarts will make a few of these adapters for dummies like me to purchase in the future.
What about a Parallel port that is compatible with the original Amiga's parallel port for devices like the DCTV, DSS8+, or other peripherals that need a connection to an Amiga parallel port? Would that be possible with some extra code using the available extra i/o pins?
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One board ordered (presumably from batch 2) :)
You aren't THE Dennis are you? The one who invented the MiniMig?
Does anyone know what Dennis is up to these days? I heard that ACube sends Dennis a portion of every sale of the MiniMig's that they sell, which I hope is true.
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You aren't THE Dennis are you? The one who invented the MiniMig?
Nop.
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something more complicated than a simple 9pin to 23pin Serial port adapter is required.
What kind of pinout does that Miracle piano keyboard use really? ;)
What about a Parallel port that is compatible with the original Amiga's parallel port for devices like the DCTV, DSS8+, or other peripherals that need a connection to an Amiga parallel port? Would that be possible with some extra code using the available extra i/o pins?
If there's pins to do it, then yes. Only the voltage level conversion might need some extra components to deal with. But the question is .. why? ;)
A lot better stuff could be wired via the USB port etc.
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That is good news, as I also have a Miracle Piano keyboard that I would like to be able to use with the Replay board. Of course I would need instructions on how to make an adapter to get it connected and working, if something more complicated than a simple 9pin to 23pin Serial port adapter is required.
Maybe someone else with mechanical ability and electronic smarts will make a few of these adapters for dummies like me to purchase in the future.
What about a Parallel port that is compatible with the original Amiga's parallel port for devices like the DCTV, DSS8+, or other peripherals that need a connection to an Amiga parallel port? Would that be possible with some extra code using the available extra i/o pins?
You might have to rig up an external power supply for some of those devices. Remember that the Amiga supplied +-12v through the serial port for external devices. The parallel port had 5v... There's another problem trying to do the parallel port. The FPGA uses 3.3v logic levels. It may not be 5v tolerant, so you'd need some kind of level shifting in between the old school devices and the FPGA. At least that's what I've read so far... just got the Xilinx ISE13 last week.
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The FPGA I/O level depend on the Vcco voltage (asfair) that can vary between 1.2 - 3,3 V. Which voltage that is used depend on the designer (mikej). Any other voltage has to be dealt with using a voltage conversion. The standard trick is a zenerdiode to "Vcc" to limit voltage and a resistor to limit current. The trick has the drawback that it MIGHT overload the supply line that the zenerdiode it's wired to and thus fry most things there (see Xilinx appnote).
A better approach is a dedicated level conversion chip.
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The FPGA I/O level depend on the Vcco voltage (asfair) that can vary between 1.2 - 3,3 V. Which voltage that is used depend on the designer (mikej). Any other voltage has to be dealt with using a voltage conversion. The standard trick is a zenerdiode to "Vcc" to limit voltage and a resistor to limit current. The trick has the drawback that it MIGHT overload the supply line that the zenerdiode it's wired to and thus fry most things there (see Xilinx appnote).
A better approach is a dedicated level conversion chip.
I'm going to have to look at the Xilinx site for some of those appnotes. The docs for the simple Spartan 3 dev board I'm looking at mentions the interface problems but doesn't go into much detail on dealing with it. That dedicated chip is going to have to be bidirectional on the parallel port.
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What kind of pinout does that Miracle piano keyboard use really? ;)
If there's pins to do it, then yes. Only the voltage level conversion might need some extra components to deal with. But the question is .. why? ;)
A lot better stuff could be wired via the USB port etc.
I thought from my post the "Why" would be self evident. For some people the MiniMig and Replay boards, plus the Chameleon and other FPGA based computers that can run an Amiga core, are an alternative to owning an original Amiga, or a new modern replacement for their original Amiga that has died. Many of those people own peripherals that they once used on their original Amiga computers and might want to use them again on a modern replacement, since the FPGA clones are able to run almost all Amiga software, it would also be good if they could use some of the old Amiga third party hardware expansions, like the Miracle piano keyboard, a DCTV paint and image capture device, and other devices that connected to the Serial, or Parallel ports.
I have a large collection of Amigas that include many such peripherals, so why wouldn't I want to continue using them with these modern Amiga clones? Of course, if the work to create an equivalent Serial and/or Parallel port for these new FPGA computers is too difficult or costly, then it makes no sense to do it, but if it is relatively easy to do, then why not?
After all, isn't the Amiga community motto, "We did it just because we can"?
Edit: I have a USB to Parallel port adapter that I bought to run an old large format printer from my Windows PC. Maybe something like that will also work on the Replay's daughter board (which will have 3 USB ports) to connect devices originally designed to connect to an Amiga Parallel port. It does not provide the correct 23pin port on it, so another gender changer would be needed to make the connection, which makes the whole experiment harder to accomplish.
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Many of those people own peripherals that they once used on their original Amiga computers and might want to use them again on a modern replacement, since the FPGA clones are able to run almost all Amiga software, it would also be good if they could use some of the old Amiga third party hardware expansions, like the Miracle piano keyboard, a DCTV paint and image capture device, and other devices that connected to the Serial, or Parallel ports.
After all, isn't the Amiga community motto, "We did it just because we can"?
I would think the Miracle piano keyboard should work with nothing other than a simple DB9 to DB25 adapter. The trick is whether or not the serial port in the FPGA minimig core can hit the MIDI serial baud rate.
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mentions the interface problems but doesn't go into much detail on dealing with it.
Either use diode to Vcc of correct voltage feed. And use a series resistor to limit current. But make sure to calculate the additional current load on the Vcc such that other devices use more current than the one that will spill over. An additional measure is a zenerdiode from Vcc to GND to sink excess current (Kirchhoff..).
That dedicated chip is going to have to be bidirectional on the parallel port.
The catch with this approach is that you need to tell a bidirectional variant which way signals shall flow.
Many of those people own peripherals that they once used on their original Amiga computers and might want to use them again on a modern replacement, since the FPGA clones are able to run almost all Amiga software, it would also be good if they could use some of the old Amiga third party hardware expansions, like the Miracle piano keyboard, a DCTV paint and image capture device, and other devices that connected to the Serial, or Parallel ports.
The point is that there are usually more efficient ways to accomplish what those peripherals do. Especially using I/O efficient interfaces like I2S etc. That usually also does away with any messy voltage level conversion in massive parallel arrays. Direct connection to the FPGA also imply the risk to fry the main chip.
You can do messy line interfacing and use lots of I/O to connect a sampler. Or you could use a small chip that does it all directly. Just because something is possible doesn't make it the right solution.
Edit: I have a USB to Parallel port adapter that I bought to run an old large format printer from my Windows PC.
Because USB polls no more than 1000 times /second and each transfer require a lot of setup data on top of being half duplex and hubbed. USB has some really horrible latency times (totaly unsuitable for bit-bang), throughout is way lower than one could expect, and unpredictable I/O performance.
So your USB-to-Parallel port adapter is only good for printers and LED blinking. Unless you have documentation and your willing to write a new firmware for its possible reflashable MCU.
The trick is whether or not the serial port in the FPGA minimig core can hit the MIDI serial baud rate.
Baud is signaling rate, bits per cycle. The bit rate is possible either by dividing some other clock or by using a PLL (DCM). It might require a update to the FPGA binary (core) however.
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Baud is signaling rate, bits per cycle. The bit rate is possible either by dividing some other clock or by using a PLL (DCM). It might require a update to the FPGA binary (core) however.
I'm pretty sure that it would be implemented by a counter clocked by the fundamental frequency, the same as the amiga was. So it should be able to work with any frequencies the amiga did.
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The point is that there are usually more efficient ways to accomplish what those peripherals do. Especially using I/O efficient interfaces like I2S etc. That usually also does away with any messy voltage level conversion in massive parallel arrays. Direct connection to the FPGA also imply the risk to fry the main chip.
You can do messy line interfacing and use lots of I/O to connect a sampler. Or you could use a small chip that does it all directly. Just because something is possible doesn't make it the right solution.
Oh, I agree with you totally, it makes a lot more sense to build some new custom hardware replace whatever external devices you might have on the serial & parallel ports. But there is the software involved. If it were relatively easy to do the Amiga's ports, then you wouldn't have to write a new sampler program for example.
Baud is signaling rate, bits per cycle. The bit rate is possible either by dividing some other clock or by using a PLL (DCM). It might require a update to the FPGA binary (core) however.
That's what I meant to say. To drive the Miracle piano, the FPGA core would have to hit the MIDI bit rate. I guess that would depend on the design of that core.
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Oh, I agree with you totally, it makes a lot more sense to build some new custom hardware replace whatever external devices you might have on the serial & parallel ports. But there is the software involved. If it were relatively easy to do the Amiga's ports, then you wouldn't have to write a new sampler program for example.
The action plan depend on how complicated the device is. A simple 8-bit A/D sampler doesn't seem worthwhile for parallel-port replica. While a real-time video compressor might.
Software is not a problem however as the core could translate a new hardware device to behave like the old hardware from a software point of view. And you could have a list of hardware devices to be used that could be selected from the OSD menu.
I can see that I/O will be a problem. So the daughter board connectors P3/P7 would have to be used for a parallel port version. Which would then prevent your 68060/Ethernet etc.. board from being connected that maybe your software requires. And you would be stuffed. A possible workaround is an external CPLD that serialize/parallelize the connection using the expansion I/O.
That's what I meant to say. To drive the Miracle piano, the FPGA core would have to hit the MIDI bit rate. I guess that would depend on the design of that core.
It depend on which base clocks that is present. Likely the video clock at 27 MHz. If the selected clock is dividable by N is precise enough then a plain logic prescaler will do. Otherwise it depend on I/O availability for another crystal oscillator or availability of DCMs. Finding out these things is one reason why the source for the core is essential.
27 000 000 / 31 250 = 864 divides even! ;)
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The action plan depend on how complicated the device is. A simple 8-bit A/D sampler doesn't seem worthwhile for parallel-port replica. While a real-time video compressor might.
I think a better plan would be to imbed a SPI core into the Amiga core, mapped in at some spare I/O address. Then hook on one of those mp3 decoders that interface with SPI and have audio in.
A possible workaround is an external CPLD that serialize/parallelize the connection using the expansion I/O.
I like that idea. You could just add something into the Amiga core that was transparent to the Amiga software and at least allow users to print.
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Hey MikeJ any news =)
Got those regulators from customs yet? Thanks!
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Hey MikeJ any news =)
Got those regulators from customs yet? Thanks!
UPS have let me down - yet again. Apparently they tried to deliver on Tuesday, having not told me the parcel had been released from customs. They hadn't told the driver the door code. I got a letter today telling me this. Tomorrow is a holiday here, so I won't get it until Monday. grrr.
/MikeJ
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UPS have let me down - yet again. Apparently they tried to deliver on Tuesday, having not told me the parcel had been released from customs. They hadn't told the driver the door code. I got a letter today telling me this. Tomorrow is a holiday here, so I won't get it until Monday. grrr.
UPS is a pain, select another company next time..
Otoh, if the company that placed the transportation order tells them to get their act together. They can get "convinced" and they have delivered on Saturdays before.
So basically.. give them hell.
I think a better plan would be to imbed a SPI core into the Amiga core, mapped in at some spare I/O address. Then hook on one of those mp3 decoders that interface with SPI and have audio in.
Why involve an mp3 decoder?
A/D -> SPI -> FPGA .. core glue. And you can implement any sampler card every heard of on Amiga.
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UPS have let me down - yet again. Apparently they tried to deliver on Tuesday, having not told me the parcel had been released from customs. They hadn't told the driver the door code. I got a letter today telling me this. Tomorrow is a holiday here, so I won't get it until Monday. grrr.
/MikeJ
Oh well, we've waited years, a bit more wont hurt ;)
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Why involve an mp3 decoder?
A/D -> SPI -> FPGA .. core glue. And you can implement any sampler card every heard of on Amiga.
I suppose so.... is there enough room left in the FPGA to do MP3 decoding?
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Hello Mike,
Also what is the prefered method to order a board? PM, email, other? I read from your website that you were making changes into the site. Are you adding shopping support to it?
Do you have any boards available or everything is already promised to future owners?
Thanks
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Please send me an email.
Yes, shopping cart is going to happen.
I have boards everywhere at the moment, but I do have a bit of a backlog.
Unfortunately I am going back to China for a week which will delay shipping. I will go and see the factory and make sure more are on the way though, which is good.
/MikeJ
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How is your order book vs manufactured boards ratio?
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Please send me an email.
Yes, shopping cart is going to happen.
I have boards everywhere at the moment, but I do have a bit of a backlog.
Unfortunately I am going back to China for a week which will delay shipping. I will go and see the factory and make sure more are on the way though, which is good.
/MikeJ
Any A.T.A for the new core mike ?
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New core....uhmmmmmmmmm...can't wait :-)
I will bring my box to Poland in february so we can play GF2 on the Hotel TV. Hopefully, the new core will be out by then so I can use the HDMI input on the hotel tv.
:)
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How is your order book vs manufactured boards ratio?
1000 to 1
:)
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Any A.T.A for the new core mike ?
Now, now - don't go bugging MikeJ about the new core. You're not supposed to do that. That's my job :lol:
Seriously, I'm kind of laid back about waiting for it, because I know MikeJ will deliver on his promises, and he won't keep us waiting longer than necessary. There's something very refreshing about that: someone meaning what they say, and delivering on it, in this community :)
When you think about it, Mike has probably written more code - and designed more hardware - than even Amiga, Inc. have done over the past 12 years*!
(* not counting hardware / software produced by third parties)
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The core can be fixed later, better get the hardware out.
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Please send me an email.
Yes, shopping cart is going to happen.
I have boards everywhere at the moment, but I do have a bit of a backlog.
Unfortunately I am going back to China for a week which will delay shipping. I will go and see the factory and make sure more are on the way though, which is good.
/MikeJ
Is my understanding correct, that you will eventually (I mean in a few more months, not a few more years) be able to automate, I mean have the pcb manufacturer, or component assembler, do more of the work in producing your Replay boards, so that you can produce more of them and meet the demand?
Will you be able to produce 100 to 200 boards at a time, so that everyone that wants one will have a chance to buy one? Have you considered partnering with AmigaKit, or Vesalia, or even ACube to help you with funding to get more of the Replay boards manufactured and sold?
I just want to see you succeed big with this product and the more people using them means more developers will be tinkering with them and improving the core code and possibly making other expansions for the Replay. It is a great product and I think it can sell in the thousands, if marketed correctly to a wide variety of hobbyist, including Amiga, Atari, Arcade games, C64 and many other groups of retro users. The expansion connector was a great idea, good luck MikeJ.
Edit:
In short, the FPGA Arcade Replay board is one of the few products in the Amiga community that I see great potential for selling to other groups and thereby becoming more of a mass marketed product that could actually be sold in large chain stores, once it is perfected and packaged to properly attract a wider audience.
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This is never going to be a mass market item. I don't see that as a negative, though.
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This is never going to be a mass market item.
I've gotta disagree with that. Retro is in right now. This thing's got potential.
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Will you be able to produce 100 to 200 boards at a time, so that everyone that wants one will have a chance to buy one?
If I remember correctly Mike has said previously that the next run would be 500 or so. Of course he could've changed plans since then.
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Partnerships involves entanglements. Better that mikej keeps 100% controll without the company politics.
Better wait for next good batch, than get 1000s of units with corporate BS.
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This is never going to be a mass market item. I don't see that as a negative, though.
It doesn't have to be mass market to be very, very successful, though. I see the Replay potentially succeeding in the same way the Amiga succeeded: it may not saturate the entire market, but it will find itself achieving some real success and popularity within certain niches. It's already exciting the Amiga world; there's also the Atari world, the C= 64 fans, arcade and console fans, etc.
The nature of the Replay itself also means it has more potential than simply being whatever retro system you want it to be; it can become any system you wish it to be; retro with modern elements, a convenient development platform bridging two different technologies, etc.
We won't know exactly where and how the Replay will distinguish itself until it has started to ship in real numbers, however, and people get their hands on it and start to mess around with it. That's when we'll see the real excitement and ipotential take off, IMO.
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It doesn't have to be mass market to be very, very successful, though. I see the Replay potentially succeeding in the same way the Amiga succeeded: it may not saturate the entire market, but it will find itself achieving some real success and popularity within certain niches. It's already exciting the Amiga world; there's also the Atari world, the C= 64 fans, arcade and console fans, etc.
The nature of the Replay itself also means it has more potential than simply being whatever retro system you want it to be; it can become any system you wish it to be; retro with modern elements, a convenient development platform bridging two different technologies, etc.
We won't know exactly where and how the Replay will distinguish itself until it has started to ship in real numbers, however, and people get their hands on it and start to mess around with it. That's when we'll see the real excitement and ipotential take off, IMO.
Well said,
While I have a soft spot for the Amiga (having gone the VIC-20 -> C64 -> Amiga route) the retro aspect alone likely wouldn't sway me to purchase. The fact though is this hardware can be almost anything you want it to be, it's the perfect FPGA dev board for alot of different applications.
I've been looking at FPGA dev boards for quite a while, and they are all either too sparse on features (power supply + FPGA + pin headers is all you get), to full of features (I don't need 8 LED's, 8 switches, numeric keypad, LCD connectors, and array of 7 segment displays, I really don't), to expensive, or to proprietary.
What I want is an FPGA dev board that I can load descent sized designs into, has some on-board ram, video out, and some sort of expansion header. The Replay Board meets that requirement very well, and that's why I've asked mike to put me on the list for a board. It's of interest to many markets I would expect.
It'll be interesting once a few more boards are in the field, more people become aware of them, videos start popping up on youtube and such places. It won't be long before it's noticed by hardware forums and the like which will spike more interest.
A key ingredient the Amiga had was that in the market that existed back then, it could basically sell it's self, lucky for the Amiga since Commodore didn't do a great job marketing it. I feel the Replay Board is capable of selling it's self in the present market.
I'd like to see some crews from the Demo Scene pick it up and see what they can pump out of the chip with some HDL demo designs. It would go a long way toward changing the ideas what can be done, and what is done with FPGA hardware.
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I had the same thoughts for a long time..
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It would be cool if some major company picked up the rights to use teh FPGA Replay board for other purposes aswell. Even if they did change the design a little, I bet the core could be adapter (or maybe even did not need adaption at all) so the world could get a nice FPGA Replay board for whatever-use whilst use Amigans could load our beloved minimig-core on it and use it for our own purpose. That way the production could be streamlind by someone else, while the retro-user gets a niftly board to use and Mike would not have to do so much production-stuff.
What we need now is decent cores which is usable for every retro-fan out there, so that the question of what board to use is not important, but what fpga board has the MOST cores out there which are maintained and fully working.
I think the key factor to succeed in the fpga-board fight is simply how many cores we get and how well they work. More cores = more users = more money = more development = :)
We need to get an Atari Core at least to get the Atari guys to jump on this board. Hoperfully, the fpga-replay board won't be promoted as a "Amiga Board". We need ANY user out there, no matter what core they like to run. And we need people to make and maintain good cores.
Personally, I want a C64 core aswell. The ones out there is not quite there yet.
It would be nice if FPGA board developers could concentrate on the cores instead. I would love to pay for a nice C64 core -- but I would not like to pay to have a proprietary fpga board to run it on when I already have my Replay board :-D
Then you have the fpga board which are proprietary like the Chameleon. It's a great product, but it will have to compete with minimig, replay and any other design out there. And frankly, there is NOT enough money out there to make all FPGA board happy. Just scrap the crap and focus on the best board and make cores for that. If you can sell a Core for a $10/30 fee to be a registered user (and gets updates etc), then that would be a great idea. I think all FPGA board users should contribute with a little cash to the developer of the core so that they can continue to develop it and make it better.
After all, they do it on their spare time....
Maybe someone could setup a FPGA CORE wiki and have links to all the cores and keep track of them and have links to download etc ? That would have been nice. A CORE LIBRARY ... not just for machines, but also for ARCADE CORES or any other core for that sake.
Keep up the great work!!!!!
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Please send me an email.
Where do I send the email Mike?
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What we need now is decent cores which is usable for every retro-fan out there, so that the question of what board to use is not important, but what fpga board has the MOST cores out there which are maintained and fully working.
We need to get an Atari Core at least to get the Atari guys to jump on this board. Hoperfully, the fpga-replay board won't be promoted as a "Amiga Board". We need ANY user out there, no matter what core they like to run. And we need people to make and maintain good cores.
I couldn't agree more! For a very long time now, going back to the late 90's, I have hoped that it would be possible for Acorn, Atari, Amiga, and Apple (hey, all A's!) to come together in some fashion and work together for our common good.
In the FPGA Replay, we've actually got a device where the success of one particular core is good for everyone else who's using the system, whichever core(s) they happen to prefer. Random example: the likelihood of 68060/Coldfire/PPC accelerators and other expansions which are useable by Amiga fans is increased if there should be a large number of Atari users which these expansions would sell to. And not just hardware expansions, but software/core projects useable by one community could be of benefit to another.
The larger the market for the Replay, the better for everyone using it, no matter our core.
I truly hope the Replay achieves some big success, and my intuition is telling me that it should infact do very well :)
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Where do I send the email Mike?
Check out MikeJ's website, his email address is all over it, though it is obfuscated to avoid the spam bots. Just remove whatever you see between fpga and arcade in the email address.
MikeJ's page, well worth a look around while you're at it.
http://www.fpgaarcade.com (http://www.fpgaarcade.com)
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I've got a few potentially silly questions about NTSC capability. Is there a way to get full PAL resolution at 60Hz with NTSC colour space? I live in Canada so PAL video signals are no good for me and my equipment. I don't mind if I have to run the entire machine at 120% speed to accomplish this, I just want to get the full image in a format my displays can handle.
I certainly hope it will be a very successful niche product.
The reason I don't see it as a truly mainstream product is that FPGA hardware is unavoidably expensive, and the average Joe would rather get something cheaper, even if that means using emulation that isn't cycle exact. And that's to say nothing of the legal nightmare that would unfold if it draws the attention of the companies whose hardware is being recreated. Even a baseless lawsuit or C&D order could be disastrous considering how every legal system is weighted in favour of the party with the biggest legal budget.
It doesn't have to be mass market to be very, very successful, though. I see the Replay potentially succeeding in the same way the Amiga succeeded: it may not saturate the entire market, but it will find itself achieving some real success and popularity within certain niches. It's already exciting the Amiga world; there's also the Atari world, the C= 64 fans, arcade and console fans, etc.
The nature of the Replay itself also means it has more potential than simply being whatever retro system you want it to be; it can become any system you wish it to be; retro with modern elements, a convenient development platform bridging two different technologies, etc.
We won't know exactly where and how the Replay will distinguish itself until it has started to ship in real numbers, however, and people get their hands on it and start to mess around with it. That's when we'll see the real excitement and ipotential take off, IMO.
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Partnerships involves entanglements. Better that mikej keeps 100% controll without the company politics.
Better wait for next good batch, than get 1000s of units with corporate BS.
Mike could get a partner to help pay the cost of producing a large number of boards, but still retain complete control of the product. It would just raise the price of the board a little bit if he decides to sell it through a third party distributor who needs to make a profit on the sales.
I want Mike to stay in control too. He is doing a good job so far, but I thought the only thing that he might take advantage of it some help in getting it assembled and packaged, so he could concentrate on the important stuff like completing work on the core and finalizing the design work on the daughterboard.
Keep up the great work Mike. The Replay has our attention and is a great product that will only continue to get better with age.
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Yeah, low profile might be a good idea.
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Regarding PAL and NTSC. Isn't that history now ? The FPGA replay board runs on DC, so any 50Hz/60Hz issues with the power outlet from your wall is really not a topic anymore. Then it is the TV set. If you use a LCD TV, it should cope with games that runs on 50Hz aswell as the ones that syncs at 60Hz. Shouldn't it ?
Correct me if I am wrong here...
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PAL LCD TVs handle both 50 and 60hz signals.
NTSC LCD TVs probably only do 60hz.
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PAL LCD TVs handle both 50 and 60hz signals.
NTSC LCD TVs probably only do 60hz.
I think with modern flat panel TV's, you wouldnt have a problem with either.
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I think with modern flat panel TV's, you wouldnt have a problem with either.
Possibly, possibly not. Depends on the TV, although the spec sheet might not be of any help. You just have to try it.
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I think with modern flat panel TV's, you wouldnt have a problem with either.
Modern flat panel TV = LCD TV :)
If it is a European TV, it will work no problems. With a US TV, well you have to try it out and hope for the best.
In other news, is MikeJ still in China?
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PAL LCD TVs handle both 50 and 60hz signals.
NTSC LCD TVs probably only do 60hz.
Unfortunately, it's not as straightforward as knowing which country you're based in and what the predominant TV standard is in that country. I know it should be, but sadly it's not. You have to check the TV's supported modes to see what will work.
With the present core and Replay hardware, the horizontal refresh rate is being scan-doubled from 15khz to 31khz to enable PAL/NTSC modes via a VGA-compatible monitor or flat screen TV. But not all TV's will accept PAL 50Hz input modes, even if you DO live in a country with a PAL 50Hz standard. They often require 60Hz or more when being fed a signal via a VGA socket. This is particularly crazy when the TVs in question WILL quite happily display 50Hz refresh rates when the input in question is coming in via composite or component input sockets.
Of course, we have the option to display video via component or composite or other analogue output modes, but here we may have a new problem. TVs might well be happy with 50Hz vertical rates from those particular input sources, but they will choke when fed the 31KHz scan-doubled horizontal rate - even though the TV supports that rate via the VGA socket!
In short, know what modes your TV is capable of supporting, and you will then have a better idea of how you should hook up your Replay unit to your TV.
Of course, I should add that none of this will be an issue in future! MikeJ is working on a new core which I'm advised will allow us to configure output modes by means of altering a config file stored on the SD Card. This will allow us to select whether the Replay enables or disables scan-doubling, and presumably whether it is outputting a PAL or NTSC signal. This should make future setup and configuration of the Replay much easier.
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I was planning to use the HDMI socket via a DVI -> HDMI cable, not the VGA. VGA is intended for PC usage, so most probably that will only work with a 60hz signal.
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I'm really not sure about HDMI as I don't connect that way, but I know a lot depends on what method of connection you're using, and what your TV is capable of supporting via that method. It's not just the VGA socket on TVs which have limitations, sadly; each socket will support different vertical and horizontal refresh rates, and each TV/monitor will differ in what modes they support with each socket.
The new core will offer more choice (including disabling scan-doubling), and easer configuration, so you'll be able to get the Replay working in any case. But it's still helpful to know which modes your TV supports and in which sockets, and configure your Replay based upon that. But then, the Replay is just acting like a real Amiga would in these situations. On a Commodore Amiga, we can't connect it to a VGA monitor without scan-doubling, and we couldn't get a scan-doubled output to work on a standard TV.
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DVI/HDMI has some "must support" modes to be allowed to use the logo. They also have a crappy license for the HDMI part.
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So if I'm reading all this correctly, the monitors that I have that work with my Minimig 1.1 or even my a1200(without scandoubler) in the case of my dell 2320, possibly won't work with FPGA Replay because I'll be using HDMI?
“I reject your reality and substitute it for my own.” Adam Savage
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I think that if you feed the TV/Monitor with a 31kHz 50Hz signal via a DVI2HDMI adapter, the TV/Monitor should display it properly since a HDMI input should be able to sync the 50Hz signal just as if you fed it from a DVD player. Now, if it does not accept the 31kHz scandoubled signal, you could of course run the Replay in a non-scan doubled mode using the new core to allow 15kHz output. That would be nice for gaming and demos -- but maybe not so nice for the workbench which you might want to use for a P96 mode :)
Now -- the only way to be sure, is to try it out on a monitor. If it works, great. If not, get a new monitor. Most electronic stores allow a 30 day trial and a money back rule, so you are pretty sure to find a suitable monitor without having to pay any extra.
The Minimig had a 15khz/31khz jumper which was nice. The current rev-b board of the Replay has no such jumper, but instead it will be in the OSD Menu. Much nicer :-) Now we just have to hope the core is just around the corner. ..which I think it is.
Espen
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OSD Menu for image adjustments are perfect when you get not readable image.. :p
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OSD Menu for image adjustments are perfect when you get not readable image.. :p
in that case you get the following message sent to COM1:
Abort, Retry, Fail?
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Where nothing is connected.. :p
Like in a hotel room where more equipment is heavy to bring..
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OSD Menu for image adjustments are perfect when you get not readable image.. :p
I had this exact problem when my Replay arrived. All I got was a psychedelic wobbly whirly output which made me dizzy. I got it sorted though - and don't worry, MikeJ's got this covered - the new core will allow us to reconfigure output modes via a config file on the SD Card. Simples! :)
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I did not know FPGA Replay has psychedelic wobbly whirly.
Now I really want one.
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I did not know FPGA Replay has psychedelic wobbly whirly.
Now I really want one.
Rev B has the psychedelic chip installed ;)
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A circumvention is to allow some button to cycle through some basic modes until something works. That is upon boot and without any screen assistance.
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I did not know FPGA Replay has psychedelic wobbly whirly.
Now I really want one.
To : MikeJ
Subject: The Plan - it's working!
See, Mike, I told ya the reference to psychedelic imagery would get people interested!
People love the idea of getting a free trip. In these times of austerity people are looking for any cheap alternatives to the real thing!
BTW, Mike: Has Amiga.org changed the layout of the PM system? It looks an awfully lot like that screen you post public replies to topics on!
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To : MikeJ
Subject: The Plan - it's working!
See, Mike, I told ya the reference to psychedelic imagery would get people interested!
People love the idea of getting a free trip. In these times of austerity people are looking for any cheap alternatives to the real thing!
Ha ha, we got em.
I was playing around with old school plasma affects you've seen in demos- but doing them directly in hi-res from VHDL at tv scan rate. You get some seriously headache inducing images on the 50" tv.
Oh, I just picked up a xilinx usb download cable I can use with the laptop when I travel - 20$ here! Got to love the Chinese.
/Mike
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I did not know FPGA Replay has psychedelic wobbly whirly.
Now I really want one.
Is that the official technical term? :D
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Got to love the Chinese.
That will be RMB300 for the hour.
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Brings back memories of tripping and watching fairlight demos in college. :/
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I'm back home. This morning I've replaced the regulators on 8 boards and all are fine.
Over the next few days I'll continue building and testing the remain boards.
I'll be in touch first with those of you I have already contacted but not taken money from, and then the next people on the list etc.
I've visited the factory in Shenzhen last week and they have started to source components for the next run.
/Mike
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Good to hear, can't wait to get one of these!
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I've visited the factory in Shenzhen last week and they have started to source components for the next run.
So they build it without your physical assistance?
How large run will it be?
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Sweet! Should be just around tax refund time. :) Keep on truckin' MikeJ!
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I'm back home. This morning I've replaced the regulators on 8 boards and all are fine.
Over the next few days I'll continue building and testing the remain boards.
I'll be in touch first with those of you I have already contacted but not taken money from, and then the next people on the list etc.
I've visited the factory in Shenzhen last week and they have started to source components for the next run.
/Mike
Thanks for the update Mike! My wife is sniffing around my wallet, as if I have something to hide. :roflmao:
Mike
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Better hide the wallet in the "right" place.. :p
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how hard would it be to make an expansion card for FPGAReplay with an A1200 trapdoor connector or a 4000D bus connector? I'm thinking mediator.
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Proberbly extra I/O board with it's own CPLD/FPGA and associated circuitry. And use a partly serialized version of the bus. Half the cost of Minimig perhaps?
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I'am quite interested in the FPGA Replay reading this thread since the beginning. :)
But looking at the Homepage I ask myself how fast is the SD-Card access. Is it only 500kBytes / second like (it seems to me) on the minimig?
It looks like SD-Card is only interfaced with SPI which would be quite slow.
for explanation see my post here:
http://www.minimig.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=452&start=10
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Great news Mike!!! Sounds like I might finally have one of these in hand by March... Can't hardly wait...
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@mikej
Did you get my email? I sent it a couple of weeks ago and still haven't heard from you.
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Sorry, I'll check - I though I had caught up with the email back log.
/Mike
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Whoohoo!. Can't wait! :)
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I'am quite interested in the FPGA Replay reading this thread since the beginning. :)
But looking at the Homepage I ask myself how fast is the SD-Card access. Is it only 500kBytes / second like (it seems to me) on the minimig?
It looks like SD-Card is only interfaced with SPI which would be quite slow.
for explanation see my post here:
http://www.minimig.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=452&start=10
My minimig 1.1 does over 2000 in turbo mode....
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The Replay board has quite careful routing on the SPI lines, and uses DMA to speed things up. It ramps the clock up to 28MHz I think, if the card supports it.
MikeJ
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A 1-bit SPI would give a theoretical 3417 kB/s without overhead. Any real life values?, I hope there's 4-bit routed to the SD slot such that the "parallell SPI" mode can be exploited.
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Yes, the ARM controller has all 4 bits routed to the SD card.
There are some license issues with using this mode however...
/MikeJ
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So is there any place i can see the price and what i get. Is there any chassi or daughterboard yet? Or do i need to read all 95 pages to find out :-)
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With reservation for errors:
Price: 220 EUR
Chassi: No, except backplate for additional cost
Daughterboard: Only as a thought currently
Delivery: Soon, but other things take time from this project
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Thats $270 AUD. Damn that's cheap!
I was expecting it to be double that :)
I hope the NatAmi will be this cheap. Anyone wanna guess how much it will cost? It's been a while since we have heard anything from them...
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Sorry, I'll check - I though I had caught up with the email back log.
/Mike
Hi Mike,
I sent email on 29th December but didn't hear back from you. I also left a copy of it in a PM for you on here (amiga.org) just in case you checked.
Hope to hear something from you soon.:confused:
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Yep same mate.
Latest reply from Mike was on 27/04/2011 and after that I sent 2x emails (December and January) but I still haven't got a reply.
I guess he's busy with all these boards :)
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Sorry, I have been trying to reply to everybody but until I have enough boards to ship I haven't got much to say. I am swamped at the moment.
Please be patient, I am testing and working through the list as fast as possible.
Best,
MikeJ
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I haven't recieved a reply either, so I'm guessing it'll take some time. Then again, I've been waiting for a few years, so a few months won't matter much :) Keep up the _very_ good work, all of you
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I have just received news that all the certification is in place.Now we can really start to ramp.
/MikeJ
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Great news, Mike! Congrats on the certs.
PS! I am wondering if I can test the core/fw before I leave for Poland with my replay to use at the Wisla Retro Gaming Event in Poland next week. I need to be able to hook up to HDMI using dvi2hdmi and also to set 15kHz via OSD :)
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i wrote you a pm here some months ago mikej, i never got a reply. still hoping to get one. ;)
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i wrote you a pm here some months ago mikej, i never got a reply. still hoping to get one. ;)
Hi, please send me an email, mikej_at_fpgaarcade_dot_com
I have to wait between sending a response to every PM on this site, it takes forever.
I wrote I would not be responding to PMs as a general rule.
/Mike
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I would "spam protect" that email if I were you mikej.
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The board has an optional SVideo output, right? So it does add to the 220 Euro cost, right?
Without that it can only connect to PC monitors?
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It has optional svideo/composite output. Correct, apart from that you have a dVI output which gives you analog vga if you add a dvi2vga adapter. With current Core/FW you will not be able to connect to a DVI monitor (or use a dvi2hdmi adapter) as the DVI only holds analogue signal currently.
Mike has scheduled a fix for this in the future so we can get digital outputs from the DVI which lets us use a dvi2hdmi adapter (or connect directly to a dvi-monitor input for best possible signal quality). And even better, he'll enable a setting in the OSD that give you a chance to choose if you want 15kHz or 31kHz horizontal scanrate (currently you only have 31kHz).
So we have great things to look for in the coming updates.
The board totally rocks!! I've used mine for over a year and it is a great product. I has never failed me once.
Espen
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@MIKE: How about opening a FPGA Arcade Facebook page ? That way everyone can follow any changes in real time, and everyone can commend and share stuff. We can add images and stories.
Or maybe someone would like to open the Group on behalf, so that Mike does not have to spend time on it ?
If yes -- what would be the best name:
A) FPGA Arcade
B) FPGA Replay
C) Minimig
D) Replay Board
...etc ?
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@MIKE: How about opening a FPGA Arcade Facebook page ? That way everyone can follow any changes in real time, and everyone can commend and share stuff. We can add images and stories.
Or maybe someone would like to open the Group on behalf, so that Mike does not have to spend time on it ?
If yes -- what would be the best name:
A) FPGA Arcade
B) FPGA Replay
C) Minimig
D) Replay Board
...etc ?
We also have Minimig.net. That would be an ideal place to chat and keep up-to-date.
I'd also like to add to your notes that mine has also been performing flawlessly and has even passed an unintended "stress test" when I disappeared on a month long business trip and left it switched on. :)
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we also have minimig.net. That would be an ideal place to chat and keep up-to-date.
I'd also like to add to your notes that mine has also been performing flawlessly and has even passed an unintended "stress test" when i disappeared on a month long business trip and left it switched on. :)
lol! :)
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How about opening a FPGA Arcade Facebook page ? That way everyone can follow any changes in real time, and everyone can commend and share stuff. We can add images and stories.
Or maybe someone would like to open the Group on behalf, so that Mike does not have to spend time on it ?
P-p-please NO,. Facebook tries to infest every aspect of life. I guess it's not even browsable from 68k AmigaOS.
Mixing this project with other activities and with three-letter organizations just brings on tech illiterate people.
A) FPGA Arcade
B) FPGA Replay
C) Minimig
D) Replay Board
...etc ?
I like FPGA Arcade.
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@MIKE: How about opening a FPGA Arcade Facebook page ? That way everyone can follow any changes in real time, and everyone can commend and share stuff. We can add images and stories.
Or maybe someone would like to open the Group on behalf, so that Mike does not have to spend time on it ?
If yes -- what would be the best name:
A) FPGA Arcade
B) FPGA Replay
C) Minimig
D) Replay Board
...etc ?
Facebook, ummmm, not thanks, not everyone like FB. I won't be following along on FB, that's for sure. I don't have an account and don't intend on getting one.
:hammer:
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Facebook, ummmm, not thanks, not everyone like FB. I won't be following along on FB, that's for sure. I don't have an account and don't intend on getting one.
:hammer:
+1 !!!
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Google+ is the current choice for people wanting to turn themselves into products for online social corporations to sell to advertisers.
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Don't forgett NSA etc..
They are tapping these sources no matter what any official statement says.
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P-p-please NO,. Facebook tries to infest every aspect of life. I guess it's not even browsable from 68k AmigaOS.
Mixing this project with other activities and with three-letter organizations just brings on tech illiterate people.
I like FPGA Arcade.
Allright, I will undo my comments. Disregard them. Forget them. :-))))))))
We need updates on fpga-arcard. Screenshots from the daughterboard is very longed for.
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daughterboard doesn't even exist as a schematic drawing yet asfaik..
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daughterboard doesn't even exist as a schematic drawing yet asfaik..
The working prototype does, but we've already seen that.
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The daughterboard exists as layout in my laptop.
I'll post a piccy when it's completely done.
/MikeJ
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The daughterboard exists as layout in my laptop.
I'll post a piccy when it's completely done.
/MikeJ
yes give us the pron :-)
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Hiya Mike,
Any ETA when these will be available to buy for the masses?
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They are shipping now, just slowly as I work through the pre-orders.
It takes a lot of time to hand assemble and test each board.
Now I have FCC and CE approval I'm going ahead with mass production.
/Mike
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They are shipping now, just slowly as I work through the pre-orders.
It takes a lot of time to hand assemble and test each board.
Now I have FCC and CE approval I'm going ahead with mass production.
/Mike
Going ahead with "mass production"! That is great news Mike. Would you care to share what "Mass Production" means? How many boards are going to be manufactured and assembled in the next production run?
Glad to see that you worked out the last few obstacles that were delaying this day from happening. The FPGA Arcade Replay board is a great project and I think it has good potential for future expansion and enhancements in both speed and features.
Please let us know all the details that you can. One of the best things about the FPGA Arcade Replay board is that you have been so open and have shared every step with us about what has been going on behind the scenes without all the silly secrecy that happens with almost every other Amiga related project. Your open communication has been a breath of fresh air in this community.
Great work and good luck with your plans (what ever they are) to sell hundreds of these boards, if not thousands. There are so many possibilities for this project and where you take it in the future.
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"FCC and CE approval" now that is something that cost and might take time.
Good effort!
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They are shipping now, just slowly as I work through the pre-orders.
It takes a lot of time to hand assemble and test each board.
Now I have FCC and CE approval I'm going ahead with mass production.
/Mike
Cool, good to hear.
Now all you need to do is hook up with either ACube, AmigaKit or Vesalia and then sell loads of the things ;)
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Why bother? There's no need for a middleman in this day and age.
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Why bother? There's no need for a middleman in this day and age.
You are so right,
No need for acube or other vendors to make money from mike's project.
I think mike is selling his boards later on true his website.
Good going mikeJ your the master :-)
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yes give us the pron :-)
We want it.. :D
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They are shipping now, just slowly as I work through the pre-orders.
It takes a lot of time to hand assemble and test each board.
Now I have FCC and CE approval I'm going ahead with mass production.
/Mike
GO GO GO:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: GO GO GO GO
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Why bother? There's no need for a middleman in this day and age.
One has to be careful though as the seller is responsible for boards that get lost in delivery. So one has to refund or send a new board if a user claims he did not receive the board. Even insured delivery is no guarantee (...this is not my signature...) and there are people abusing this system. Don't know in which countries this is valid.
greets,
Staf.
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It depends on the payment processor, really.
PayPal will side with the buyer in any country, for example.
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@Mike: Tomorrow is my last chance for flashing with new FW to get 15kHz +DVI output before leaving for Poland for the "Wisla Extravagansa Polish Amiga Hotel Gaming Expo 2012". If there is a remote chance to get a pre-beta test fw/core, I would be super glad.
Desperately seeking 15kHz :-)
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You're wasting your time. I sent him 10 goats, 50 chickens, jesus' left pinky finger, a map showing the location of the fountain of youth, my first born son and a pair of Angelina jolie's used knickers for the same thing and he never delivered. ;)
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Ha, Angelina Jolie's knickers did not arrive - there it your problem.
Actually I'm in China again which was a bit unexpected, and I'm a bit sick.
However, I've brought a board and usb debugger with me.
You can force it into 15K mode manually by adding a wire...
Tell you what, I'll try to do a "bodge" merge of the old code today.
Espen, mail me and I'll tell you how to do the 15K mod. However, the composite out won't work with this still.
If you are taking a laptop with you and micro usb cable you can update when you get there?
/Mike
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@Mike: I am not sure if I can bring a laptop with me as it is currently running my web server for my BBS. I'll send you an email for the receipe for the 15kHz wire-hack as it might be enough in case the TV on-site has issues with 15kHz VGA signals which i guess it'll have. It's worth a try. :-)
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@Mike: Thanks for the tip on how to disable the scandoubler to get 15kHz output.
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They are shipping now, just slowly as I work through the pre-orders.
It takes a lot of time to hand assemble and test each board.
Now I have FCC and CE approval I'm going ahead with mass production.
/Mike
How does one go about getting a product like this approved by them? And does that get you worldwide certification, or are there other things to be done for some parts of the world?
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Asfaik, send it in or compliance testing, expect failure and then correction, repeat until you fixed all demands. That gives you a paper you can shove the EMC inquisition. Cost approximate 20-30k USD per test.
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Asfaik, send it in or compliance testing, expect failure and then correction, repeat until you fixed all demands. That gives you a paper you can shove the EMC inquisition. Cost approximate 20-30k USD per test.
If MikeJ has just spent $20k to $30k on getting the FPGA Arcade Replay board certified, he must have some serious plans for mass production and sales to recoup that amount of investment.
Hopefully there is a cheaper method of obtaining those certifications for small scale inventors, or many small projects would never see the light of day (if these certifications are required to make them available for sale to the public).
I think it would be a great thing for public awareness about the Amiga and all of the great old games that were available for it, if MikeJ's Replay board ends up for sale in large retail outlets and sells in the ten's of thousands of units, but some how I don't think that is MikeJ's plan. Unless he has been quietly working on such plans behind the scenes for a long time and has an investment partner with a marketing plan that includes advertising and packaging, including a case w/PSU and pre-installed AmigaForever with Amiga ROMs & lots of games and applications. (I am not even sure that Colanto's license would allow such pre-installation of their product)
Any product that raises Amiga awareness and brings a few former Amiga users back to using this, or looking at other developments in the world of Amiga today, is a positive thing. Any Amiga related product that can be successfully marketed in mass numbers will be a good for all other parts of the Amiga community as a whole. With a little bit of luck and the right marketing, packaging and investment backing, the Replay board could maybe be successful in selling many thousand units (not just to Amiga fans, but Arcade fans as well), and with a little more luck, could even break into the realm of selling a few ten's of thousands of units, but it would not be easy and could be a risky investment if sales turned out to be not so good and too much stock was produced. Packaging and marketing would be two critical items that will control how much success it can achieve. That plus MikeJ's desire of how big he wants this product to be. He might prefer to keep it small and completely under his control, without any influence from outside partners.
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If MikeJ has just spent $20k to $30k on getting the FPGA Arcade Replay board certified, he must have some serious plans for mass production and sales to recoup that amount of investment.
Hopefully there is a cheaper method of obtaining those certifications for small scale inventors, or many small projects would never see the light of day (if these certifications are required to make them available for sale to the public).
I think it would be a great thing for public awareness about the Amiga and all of the great old games that were available for it, if MikeJ's Replay board ends up for sale in large retail outlets and sells in the ten's of thousands of units, but some how I don't think that is MikeJ's plan. Unless he has been quietly working on such plans behind the scenes for a long time and has an investment partner with a marketing plan that includes advertising and packaging, including a case w/PSU and pre-installed AmigaForever with Amiga ROMs & lots of games and applications. (I am not even sure that Colanto's license would allow such pre-installation of their product)
Any product that raises Amiga awareness and brings a few former Amiga users back to using this, or looking at other developments in the world of Amiga today, is a positive thing. Any Amiga related product that can be successfully marketed in mass numbers will be a good for all other parts of the Amiga community as a whole. With a little bit of luck and the right marketing, packaging and investment backing, the Replay board could maybe be successful in selling many thousand units (not just to Amiga fans, but Arcade fans as well), and with a little more luck, could even break into the realm of selling a few ten's of thousands of units, but it would not be easy and could be a risky investment if sales turned out to be not so good and too much stock was produced. Packaging and marketing would be two critical items that will control how much success it can achieve. That plus MikeJ's desire of how big he wants this product to be. He might prefer to keep it small and completely under his control, without any influence from outside partners.
Let's face it, the beauty of Mike's board is that it isn't just a Minimig. It can be whatever the user wants it to be and with multiple cores on a single card it could be the ultimate retro computer and/or arcade games machine.
Right now I have my Chameleon64 configured where I can select between a C64, Amiga or Spectrum on start-up.
I love FPGA machines. :)
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If MikeJ has just spent $20k to $30k on getting the FPGA Arcade Replay board certified, he must have some serious plans for mass production and sales to recoup that amount of investment.
well, it wasn't quite that much - but was a bit pricey.
I'm having fun (and spending a fortune) learning how to produce hardware....
I am working as we speak in a bar in China on getting the new ARM code/core to support DVI/composite etc.
Cheers,
Mike
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Why does it (or anything) need to be certified again?
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If they're being mass produced and imported from China in large quantities, then the boards will likely be scrutinized by customs, and I'm pretty sure most countries require electronics to meet certain standards.
For something manufactured in some guy's garage, not so much.
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Without reading all 73 other pages, are these available now? If so, how much are they?
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Without reading all 73 other pages, are these available now? If so, how much are they?
As for availability of the board, I believe it is only as Mikej completes them. Email him at mikej@fpgaarcade.com (mikej@fpgaarcade.com) to be placed on the list. Pricing has been discussed at 220 EUR, but let Mikej give you that number.
The Dawg
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Please spam protect the email ..
@mikej, How can one find work piece and have your stuff for yourself in a bar? ;)
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Please spam protect the email ..
@mikej, How can one find work piece and have your stuff for yourself in a bar? ;)
Yes, Firedawg, please edit your post to protect MikeJ's email address from spam-bots that crawl the web looking for email addresses.
If it does not get edited soon, can one of the Moderators here please edit it to make it more spam-bot proof?
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Without reading all 73 other pages, are these available now? If so, how much are they?
I think the price is 229 euros for the version without the composite output RCA jack, and 249 euros with composite output, but check MikeJ's website for the latest info.
The current batch has most likely already been spoken for, but send MikeJ an email asking for him to add you to the list of potential buyers and he will contact you when more are ready for delivery, or if he has any left that are ready to ship from the current batch. He stated that he is very close to being ready for mass production, so what ever his definition of "Mass Production" means, will probably be explained soon and he will tell us how many boards he is going to produce next (last batch was 48, or 50, so next batch is sure to be more than that).
I think that Mike is going to have more, or all of the assembly work for the next batch done by another company in China, so there should not be as long of a delay, between the time he has the PCB's produced, and the completion of the boards for testing and ready for shipment, as there was for the last 48 to 50 boards that he hand assembled and tested by himself.
(all of the above is to the best of my memory, and subject to corrections by other members here, or MikeJ himself, as time permits)
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does any1 know when mikej going to be selling his boards through his site or elsewhere and his there any news on the 68060 expansion board?
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mikej response below says it all.
Mike
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My version of Jakub's core is now up and running - I've been adding some customisation for the Replay board etc. Not totally finished yet but getting close. This will beta while Jakub and I figure out to merge back. He is focusing more on RTG graphics and the 68060 at the moment.
I've finished testing another 5 boards today which will ship.
I'm also working on the daughter board, still aiming for mid-late April PCB production, depending on how long it takes to get the new firmware released.
/Mike
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A few questions about the fpga arcade board. The amiga part is it faster or improved over an aga machine? As i understand it we can flash a hardware system to the board thru' software and it can mimic a variety of systems?What percentage of compatability is there for the amiga/st other systems?What are the benefits now or for the future for the fpga arcade over a regular amiga?I assume we can run roms/games on it and it can be like an arcade system.Is their a casing planned.etc.Lot's of questions i know.Im not a technical computer guy so any responses are appreciated thanks.
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Is the source for these improved cores available somewhere?
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Shame that it's produced in China.
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@Mike: Very cool to hear about the progress of the Daughter board. I am waiting eagerly to get my hands on one of them as soon as you start shipping.
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My version of Jakub's core is now up and running - I've been adding some customisation for the Replay board etc. Not totally finished yet but getting close. This will beta while Jakub and I figure out to merge back. He is focusing more on RTG graphics and the 68060 at the moment.
I've finished testing another 5 boards today which will ship.
I'm also working on the daughter board, still aiming for mid-late April PCB production, depending on how long it takes to get the new firmware released.
/Mike
Your progress on the daughter board does not mean that the PCB production you are aiming for in mid-late April is for more daughter boards, does it? I thought your earlier posts indicated that you were almost ready for a "large" production run for the regular FPGA Arcade Replay boards. Is that correct? Or do you have a planned production run of more daughter boards for mid-late April?
Are the next batch of boards going to be assembled more by the plant that is doing the surface mounted part soldering, so that the boards you receive will be ready to test and ship, or are you staying with the same partial assembly by the Chinese with you doing the through hole components soldering yourself, then the testing, before they are ready to ship out?
I already have mine, but I think these questions when answered, will prevent some of the confusion that might exist regarding your next plans.
Congrats on getting closer to being ready to sell more of your boards. I am looking forward to the updated firmware and also eventually for the daughter boards to become available.
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Is the source for these improved cores available somewhere?
Wodan,
Unlike every other project in this area, the source for this will be available at release.
May I ask why you ask? If you are interested in developing, and have some experience in this area drop me a mail.
Best,
/MikeJ
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Shame that it's produced in China.
It's a fair point. The first boards were all made in Scandinavia, but I had real trouble finding a company who would bother to look at it. Those that did quote were >10x the price of a very good factory in China. I have also had quality issues with EU companies, not China ones interestingly.
With volume production it may be possible to move back to Europe, but for now you would have to pay @50-60Euro more per board for that.
I did get some help from two UK companies, but at that time I had already done the deal in China.
/MikeJ
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@Mike: can you give a short status on the coming core and daughterboard ?
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@Mike: can you give a short status on the coming core and daughterboard ?
Yes please, and What I really want to know if the cache crash is fixed so the processor can run full speed now ! without crashing the system..
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I "think" it will run at full speed, the design is timing-clean now. However, I have broken write to SD card at the moment, so I can't save a config file.
I will recompile and change the defaults to check.
It is running with selectable scan doubler now and svhs output it working well.
Composite is a bit iffy in PAL but the sync's are not quite right. Using my test pattern generator I get a clean picture.
/Mike
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Any confirmation on what kind of 68060 the daughterboard will require yet? Will an EC version work? If so, what are the disadvantages of using one for general and game use?
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I "think" it will run at full speed, the design is timing-clean now. However, I have broken write to SD card at the moment, so I can't save a config file.
I will recompile and change the defaults to check.
It is running with selectable scan doubler now and svhs output it working well.
Composite is a bit iffy in PAL but the sync's are not quite right. Using my test pattern generator I get a clean picture.
/Mike
I was wondering what the delay was.
Has the soft-68020 core been updated?
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Nice to hear about the progress. I am sure everyone will be happy to test the new core once you feel comfortable releasing it for testing.
Put some easter-eggs in there aswell :)
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Facebook, ummmm, not thanks, not everyone like FB. I won't be following along on FB, that's for sure. I don't have an account and don't intend on getting one.
:hammer:
+20
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Will AmigaKIT or Vesalia sell this at any point ?
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I think this board once the daughterboard is ready will sell bucket loads compared to the more expensive fpga based amiga compatibles.
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The fact that Picasso96 is running on it makes this a really good alternative to expanding the old amigas.
I really hope I can afford one.
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Dang. How'd I miss the preorder on these????
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Well, it's not really pre-orders - I don't confirm and ask for any cash until the board is packed and ready to ship. Good job as I am behind schedule!
More are coming, I'm seeing the factory next week again.
/Mike
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don't forget me :insane:
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maybe I missed it, but what will the price be?
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this what i got from mike j in recent email about pricing
I'm not taking any more orders just at the moment, I have a bit of a backlog.
The main board is 229Euro + vat (but may change slightly in the next batch).
The atx adapter is 20Euro + cables, and the backplate is 12Euro + vat.
The daughter board is yet to be priced, but without CPU should be ~100Euro.
Cheers,
Mike
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HHmm..
About 100 EURO for the daughter-board without CPU is nice (I have a 060 rev6 here on my desk).
Is the daughter-board PCB production still on schedule for end of April ?
I hope we can get are hands on the new core soon, feel free to update us Mike ;-)
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I was wondering:
wasn't is supposed to be an Amiga core upgrade months ago? Did it ever get released? I have my board waiting for a more compatible Amiga core since I got it :)
Is there an Atari ST core available? Maybe I could give it a try while the corrected Amiga core sees tge light of day.
thanks
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Cool, that is actually very cheap, especially in amiga land :)
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The amiga core was delayed because of broken write to sdcard.
I,m also waiting for this because of core compatibility problems.
Lets hope we will be there soon ;-)
I dont know if there is a st core yet, but there will be it say so on mikes new site.
I was wondering:
wasn't is supposed to be an Amiga core upgrade months ago? Did it ever get released? I have my board waiting for a more compatible Amiga core since I got it :)
Is there an Atari ST core available? Maybe I could give it a try while the corrected Amiga core sees tge light of day.
thanks
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The amiga core was delayed because of broken write to sdcard.
I,m also waiting for this because of core compatibility problems.
Lets hope we will be there soon ;-)
I dont know if there is a st core yet, but there will be it say so on mikes new site.
Meanwhile, the x86 Core is working like a charm. The softcore Pentium 2 manages around 600MHz which allows the installing of WinXP if you put the ISO of the install DVD on the SD card and mount it. The emulated Radeon 7xxx series graphics card allocates 64MB of RAM which is enough to play lots of games. Just make sure you get a huge SD card as Windows needs a large hard file especially if you plan on installing lots of games.
Here's a screen shot of the FPGA Aracde running World of Warcraft in a 1024x768 display on WindowsXP (it is rather large so I had to link to it):
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/FPGA1.jpg
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Nice one Darrin ;-)
you got me going for a moment, like what have I been missing !!!
But yes runs smooth LOL
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Nice one Darrin ;-)
you got me going for a moment, like what have I been missing !!!
But yes runs smooth LOL
Sorry, couldn't resist. ;)
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Sorry, couldn't resist. ;)
Cute.. :) Good joke.
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Meanwhile, the x86 Core is working like a charm. The softcore Pentium 2 manages around 600MHz which allows the installing of WinXP if you put the ISO of the install DVD on the SD card and mount it. The emulated Radeon 7xxx series graphics card allocates 64MB of RAM which is enough to play lots of games. Just make sure you get a huge SD card as Windows needs a large hard file especially if you plan on installing lots of games.
Here's a screen shot of the FPGA Aracde running World of Warcraft in a 1024x768 display on WindowsXP (it is rather large so I had to link to it):
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/FPGA1.jpg
Such a bollocks u are, you got me :) Wonderful late 1st april.
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How usable are these boards with the current core and can you plug an Amiga floppy into it and load from old 3 1/2 inchers?
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Installing wb3.1 works without any problem.
There are some core isus with compatibility of the 020 softcore.
Installing OS3.9 out of the box is not working because of the 020 softcore.
A other problem is that the cpu turbo mode ( 030@50mhz speed) is not working at the moment,
So the core is working @ 6,03 times A500. (sysinfo).
We hope the new core will resolve this isus and also that the new RTG is included into the new core.
But current core is working fine you can use WB3.1 AGA support and most whdload games work fine.
you have 12 meg of mem @ the moment 11,5 MB ram 512KB kickstart.
hope we can use the full 64mb with the next core with the new software commands.
max screen resolution with this core 640x480 256 colors.
The new core support 16.1mil colors and a resolution off 640x480 minimal and hope for bigger than that.
you can't connect a flopydrive (YET) all disk are .adf on the SDCard and HDD are .HDF file just like in winua.
The core I have here is more then a year old (Pre beta core)
I have my FPGAArcade board for more then a year now !
How usable are these boards with the current core and can you plug an Amiga floppy into it and load from old 3 1/2 inchers?
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Wizzard,
Thank you for the excellent reply. Is there any word on when the new core will be ready? At this stage it's too early for me to buy the board but hopefully when there are updated to the core it will meet my needs. Hopefully around the same time as Mike gets these "mass produced".
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Installing wb3.1 works without any problem.
There are some core isus with compatibility of the 020 softcore.
Installing OS3.9 out of the box is not working because of the 020 softcore.
A other problem is that the cpu turbo mode ( 030@50mhz speed) is not working at the moment,
So the core is working @ 6,03 times A500. (sysinfo).
We hope the new core will resolve this isus and also that the new RTG is included into the new core.
So softcore isn't good choice at this moment and additional daughter board with 060 CPU is rather needed. :evil:
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That's why we want the new core so bad.
The new core was to released a few weeks ago but some other bug stoped the release.
But don't worry Mike will fix it for sure.
Okee all the goodies on the daughter-board are nice stuff, I will get one for sure, but i'm sure it's not needed to get this nice hardware going.
bottomline: FPGAArcade rocks big time !!!!
So softcore isn't good choice at this moment and additional daughter board with 060 CPU is rather needed. :evil:
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OFC it rox... Stop teasing us wizard66 :)
An A590 and a spare Rev.6 060 CPU are waiting patiently lol
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Just sharing information mfilos :-)
I hope all get there FpgaArcade board soon to get the show on the road.
just telling all that itś the best thing I bought in years, that's all
My FPGAArcade board is already inside the A590 case.
OFC it rox... Stop teasing us wizard66 :)
An A590 and a spare Rev.6 060 CPU are waiting patiently lol
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Meanwhile, the x86 Core is working like a charm. The softcore Pentium 2 manages around 600MHz which allows the installing of WinXP if you put the ISO of the install DVD on the SD card and mount it. The emulated Radeon 7xxx series graphics card allocates 64MB of RAM which is enough to play lots of games. Just make sure you get a huge SD card as Windows needs a large hard file especially if you plan on installing lots of games.
Here's a screen shot of the FPGA Aracde running World of Warcraft in a 1024x768 display on WindowsXP (it is rather large so I had to link to it):
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/FPGA1.jpg
Ha ha, ok, I deserve that ;)
I have you know I have brought a board with me to China and was working on it in the bar.
I echo the OSD to the rs232 port, so I don't need a monitor attached.
Good news, I fixed the problem with the file system, seems to work nicely now with no timeouts. More testing to be done. The ARM software now runs up the core and can load disk images. I am working on the hard drive code now.
I have been chatting a lot to Jakub who has been helping out.
The ARM code is a rewrite for several reasons. It now builds under free tools (Yagarto) and uses a real embedded file system which is good for other reason which will become apparent.
However, a lot of the really clever stuff that Jakub wrote, like the directory sort and ADF/HDF mounters have to be re-written completely.
The core itself seems to be working nicely and meets timing.
Best,
MikeJ
(from WuHan airport)
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Thanks for the status update!
Still waiting to get my paws on a board! ;)
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I really need a board!!! :)
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I'd also be interested in an ST core (but prefer a fixed Amiga one first!) :)
The early prototype Daughterboard has 3 USBs but I saw mention of a network adaptor too. Are there any specs for the DB that are current?
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Since the daughterboard needs a cpu, I started poking around ebay for a used 68060, but the prices are rather steep.. (~100USD). Then I found this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nortel-Meridian-NT5D03FB-CP-Rlse-02-68060E-128MB-64F-Module-/320877034462
Anyone know if that cpu actually would be usable? A bit of googling shows that it should be a proper 68060@50MHz, and at that price I bought one. (still one available if you feel like possibly wasting money)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_68060 shows that Nortel did use a 68060, but I'm not sure about that e at the end..
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Since the daughterboard needs a cpu, I started poking around ebay for a used 68060, but the prices are rather steep.. (~100USD). Then I found this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nortel-Meridian-NT5D03FB-CP-Rlse-02-68060E-128MB-64F-Module-/320877034462
Anyone know if that cpu actually would be usable? A bit of googling shows that it should be a proper 68060@50MHz, and at that price I bought one. (still one available if you feel like possibly wasting money)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_68060 shows that Nortel did use a 68060, but I'm not sure about that e at the end..
Don't know, can't see the beast under the heatsink - but you may be lucky.
This is the one you need : MC68060RC50 mask 71E41J rev6
I am talking to some suppliers in Shenzhen to see if I can get some + sockets + heatsinks.
/MikeJ
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How critical is mask and revision?
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Genuine MC68060RC50 with 41J mask work, others have bugs.
They are getting expensive. I am talking to a supplier here.
By the time we include shipping, handling and testing it will be around 60Euro + vat for the processor. (Worst case 70Euro I think) Is this a price people are willing to pay?
If I buy larger numbers I can get a better price.
Were there any XC68060RC50 with the same mask set? Are there any faster versions?
Re-labelling is a major problem here, so I am talking to a friend who runs a chip testing company here as well.
/MikeJ
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They are getting expensive. I am talking to a supplier here.
By the time we include shipping, handling )and testing it will be around 60Euro + vat for the processor. (Worst case 70Euro I think) Is this a price people are willing to pay?
Not having to hunt it down myself is worth a bit extra. 70 euro doesn't sound bad to me. Especially if we'll ideally being able to order the daughterboard + CPU in one package and get it mounted and tested.
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Not having to hunt it down myself is worth a bit extra. 70 euro doesn't sound bad to me. Especially if we'll ideally being able to order the daughterboard + CPU in one package and get it mounted and tested.
+1:banana: Mike put me down for a fpgarcade (on list already)+060+daughterboard!
The Dawg
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60-70 Euros is ok for me (if a bit expensive, but it's not an el-cheapo 486 CPU, so I understand it's harder to get).
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The right mask, I suppose, can be overclocked?
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Don't know, can't see the beast under the heatsink - but you may be lucky.
This is the one you need : MC68060RC50 mask 71E41J rev6
I am talking to some suppliers in Shenzhen to see if I can get some + sockets + heatsinks.
/MikeJ
Hi Mike. If I am still on your daughtherboard-list, can you include a 060 and a heatsink in the shipping if you get hold of some ?
Great news about the new core! You know we'd love to beta-test the core for you :-D
//Espen
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Genuine MC68060RC50 with 41J mask work, others have bugs.
They are getting expensive. I am talking to a supplier here.
By the time we include shipping, handling )and testing it will be around 60Euro + vat for the processor. (Worst case 70Euro I think) Is this a price people are willing to pay?
If I buy larger numbers I can get a better price.
Where there any XC68060RC50 with the same mask set? Are there any faster versions?
Re-labelling is a major problem here, so I am talking to a friend who runs a chip testing company here as well.
/MikeJ
I'll have on at that price. Please put me down for one (and the expansion board).
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I'll have on at that price. Please put me down for one (and the expansion board).
Same for me.
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Put me down for an fpgarcade+060+daughterboard!
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Mike,
I had emailed before about getting a FPGA. Put me down for the daughter board/chip also.
Looks like Christmas is coming early this year...
thanks
DLH
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About cores: Has anyone testet any other cores with the replay board which they use ? Like Atari, c64 or anything else (game-cores) ?
It would be cool to fill a SD card with lots of Cores from Arcade machines and then have a Core-Select menu at top-level for Easy Core selection to fire up Arcade games if one decides not to use the replay board primarily as an amiga.
Anyone ?
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That sounds like a fair price to me for the chip. Buying it all together instead of having to hunt down and outbid other people for individual parts is a big plus for me.
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Is the real 060 CPU just a temporary solution?
Any hope that the softcore eventually be faster than the real cpu, or is that impossible?
Beside being able to plug a real 060 in the daughterboard, what other advantages are there?
I've read something about USB and Ethernet, is it impossible to get that without the daughterboard?
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Since the daughterboard needs a cpu, I started poking around ebay for a used 68060, but the prices are rather steep.. (~100USD). Then I found this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nortel-Meridian-NT5D03FB-CP-Rlse-02-68060E-128MB-64F-Module-/320877034462
Anyone know if that cpu actually would be usable? A bit of googling shows that it should be a proper 68060@50MHz, and at that price I bought one. (still one available if you feel like possibly wasting money)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_68060 shows that Nortel did use a 68060, but I'm not sure about that e at the end..
I've noticed 060's from comms equipment is nearly always the EC version. It should still work fine on the daughterboard though, although you might miss the FPU and MMU.
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Put me down for an fpgarcade+060+daughterboard!
I had put in email about the fpgarcade a while back but i can't remember when.
I would also like to be put on the list for fpgarcade+060+daughterboard
I realize my 1200 will not last forever :(
thanks!
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i cant remeber if jakub or mikej said but im sure they have stated there is a core to be built to use the daughterboard without cpu
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I'm with espskog :-)
Great news about the new core! You know we'd love to beta-test the core for you :-D
//Espen
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MikeJ can you please put me down for a FPGAArcade with expansion board + 060 (i should be on your list for a FPGA Replay board)
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Mikej, me too! Please put me down for a daughterboard & an 060 :-)
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Bump!
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Mikej, me too! Please put me down for a daughterboard & an 060 :-)
me too!!!!! only daughterboard no 060
:)
:rtfm:
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Me for a mainboard, daughterboard and 060. Expressed interest ages ago and got on a list but never heard another word back.
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It would be cool if Mike put up a twitter-thingie for sending out info. It would please all subscribers to any news he puts out. I do not use twitter myself, but I would introduce myself to it if there would be a #fpga-arcade channel :-)
And it must be easier for Mike to broadcast stuff instead of having to post here ?
E.g. "Core fixed. Might be released tomorrow" or "Found a bug in daughterboard. Progress is going smooth" ...and stuff like that. It would be awesome!!!
:)
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"Core fixed. Might be released tomorrow"
This is one tweed I like to see :-)
But yes good idea to have some sort of speed updates so we can see what's going on.
Last time Mike wrote here was ten day's ago ( I think he is still drinking beer in the bar in China hehe, but he, well deserved :-) )
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Something that I would like to see would be a online document (like a google document) with the current list of people queue, if only mike has already a list like that. It will only be necessary copy & paste to a google docs document.
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Genuine MC68060RC50 with 41J mask work, others have bugs.
They are getting expensive. I am talking to a supplier here.
By the time we include shipping, handling and testing it will be around 60Euro + vat for the processor. (Worst case 70Euro I think) Is this a price people are willing to pay?
If I buy larger numbers I can get a better price.
Were there any XC68060RC50 with the same mask set? Are there any faster versions?
Re-labelling is a major problem here, so I am talking to a friend who runs a chip testing company here as well.
/MikeJ
I received yesterday a box of brand-new genuine MC68060RC50s ... but they were the 1st mask set so I have rejected them. The supplier is attempting to find more of the 41J revision. If we can't get them in Shenzhen, I don't think we are going to get them anywhere
.
We may have to accept the second mask set where all but one of the Errata's were fixed, but they don't go as fast as the 41Js. The young ladies are on the case here, I'll know more in a week or so.
/MikeJ
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I received yesterday a box of brand-new genuine MC68060RC50s ... but they were the 1st mask set so I have rejected them. The supplier is attempting to find more of the 41J revision. If we can't get them in Shenzhen, I don't think we are going to get them anywhere
.
We may have to accept the second mask set where all but one of the Errata's were fixed, but they don't go as fast as the 41Js. The young ladies are on the case here, I'll know more in a week or so.
/MikeJ
The young ladies are on your what???
;)
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The young ladies are on your what???
;)
its like charlies angels ;)
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The young ladies are on your what???
;)
ha ha, I won't tell you what happened in the bar now ;)
/MikeJ
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ha ha, I won't tell you what happened in the bar now ;)
/MikeJ
LOL, I can imagine. Remember, I worked in Shekou for a while. :D
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Hi Mike, me too! 1 replay board + daughter board + 060. Thanks! ;)
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Hi Mike,
I'm following the thread silently (together with others I think) but I'm interested in too the same combo; replay board + daughter board + 060 ... so good luck for the project and congratulations for the results!
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LOL, I can imagine. Remember, I worked in Shekou for a while. :D
Oh yes, I forgot that - well yes we were hanging out in Shekou, and probably where you expect. This may explain why there has been little progress on the software front last week ;)
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Mike I am also interested in replay board + daughter board + 060! I was in your preorder list and I also emailed you a couple of times lately with no reply yet (I guess you are too busy with the project)...
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@Mike: People are queueing up a lot now for the mainboard+daughterboard combo.
Can you say how far the daughterboard has come ?
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espskog: and he ignores our requests beatifully... Grrr ;)
I Want one!!!
Any estimation on when we can buy it?
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Sorry guys, I've been travelling back. I'm working through the emails, but it will take a day or so to catch up.
Layout is pretty much complete for the daughterboard, but not 100% yet, still fiddling with it. I need some time to go through it with Jakub before manufacture.
/MikeJ
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Great. Thanks for the update. Will it be ready for beta-testing before end of Q3 ?
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Thanks for the update Mike,
This is good news to have ;-)
Good to see things happening, your the best !
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Great. Thanks for the update. Will it be ready for beta-testing before end of Q3 ?
I still hopeful to get boards in May. CPUs are proving the issue....
/Mike
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I still hopeful to get boards in May. CPUs are proving the issue....
/Mike
How about an option for 68040 CPUs?
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I still hopeful to get boards in May. CPUs are proving the issue....
/Mike
Brilliant news!! Regardsless of whether you get hold of a 060 or not, could Wiz and I test a board with our existing replays ? :banana:
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Yes, I will ship without processors as well, but I need to get some to test it with.
I may have found some....
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Yes, I will ship without processors as well, but I need to get some to test it with.
I may have found some....
You can borrow my 1E41J 060 if you want ! just say so and I will send ít to you,
But I need it back when you ship out the daugtherboard's it's my only 1E41J (don't charge me for the 060 when you deliver my board, with my processor LOL)
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Aside from the 060, when will the next batch of just Replay boards be available? I cant wait to get my hands on one.
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i sent reminder email again to mikej that i would like buy fpga arcade and daughterboard.
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I received yesterday a box of brand-new genuine MC68060RC50s ... but they were the 1st mask set so I have rejected them.
What happens if you reject them? Do they take them back and refund you, or do you have some unrefunded trash as part of your total costs?
Once we get the bigger softcore 680x0 going, I can imagine this problem going away, puttin gan FPGA on a small PCB with 680x0 PGA pins on the bottom to plug into any board with such a socket. Not sure if it would be relevant for FPGA Arcade at that point, put the softcore inside the mainboard FPGA, but interesting for others perhaps.
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Yes, I will ship without processors as well, but I need to get some to test it with.
I may have found some....
You and your China connections!:D Somethings we just do not need to know, but we appreciate it just the same. I'm still hiding the loot from the wife for the FPGA Replay Board and as the daughter card and the 060 will be very much wanted, I have had to add more to the kitty. I'm just glad she is not a forensic accountant or my money tucking ways will be ended.:whack:
Mike
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Me wants one... (in LOTR Golem voice)
Please check your email as I had sent a request for one jeez... over a year ago. Thanks for all your hard work on this. This shall be my new middle aged man toy. (ok that sounds wierd)
You know what I mean...
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Hello guys, could you please tell me if it is possible to install this hardfile on the FPGA Arcade.
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/4851840/The_Amiga_Master_Collection_ready_to_run_HEAVY_LIFTING_DONE_
This hardfile is very complete,ate least for me :-)
I´m very interested in this great board as my future amiga replacement.
Thanks in advance.
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duno piratebay is banned on my isp
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Since the daughterboard needs a cpu, I started poking around ebay for a used 68060, but the prices are rather steep.. (~100USD). Then I found this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nortel-Meridian-NT5D03FB-CP-Rlse-02-68060E-128MB-64F-Module-/320877034462
And I received it..
It's an LC version, and it's soldered to the board. No go unfortunately. I guess I'll have to put my faith in MikeJ's angels and their awesome 060-hunting-skills :)
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are the pins too short on 68060 then once de-soldered?
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Hello guys, could you please tell me if it is possible to install this hardfile on the FPGA Arcade.
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/4851840/The_Amiga_Master_Collection_ready_to_run_HEAVY_LIFTING_DONE_
This hardfile is very complete,ate least for me :-)
I´m very interested in this great board as my future amiga replacement.
Thanks in advance.
I have the file and it is about 10GB large (the hardfile). It works nice on WinUAE though -- as you also probably have tried. Yet, I would have to shrink it a little down to fit my 8GB SDIO card to test on the Replay first. I will bring it home and try and see if it works. It boots up a plain OS3.1 with WHDLoad on it and a ton of games/demos -- so I think it will work pretty nice. Just have to test it first :D
Thanks for that link. It'll be a nice baseline for my new hardfile :)
Espen
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Yes, i have tried on winuae and it´s great, like you said it´s a great baseline. I´ll be waiting for your results, i hope everything works.
P.S. I´m curious about the cd32 games… will they work?
Thanks
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I'll buy a bigger SD card and try it as well with the new firmware.
I'm running a different filesystem so it will be a good test.
/MikeJ
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I'll buy a bigger SD card and try it as well with the new firmware.
I'm running a different filesystem so it will be a good test.
/MikeJ
Talking of new firmware, I'll be home on Sunday and I'll have a week off... hint, hint.
;)
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Can we assume that your new filesystem will lift the 4GB boundary on SDCards then ?
If so the new firmware gets better every day :-)
I'll buy a bigger SD card and try it as well with the new firmware.
I'm running a different filesystem so it will be a good test.
/MikeJ
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Mike, do not forget that FAT filesystem has ~4GB limit on file size. Please also remember that Amiga OS 3.1 scsi.device do not support drives larger than 4GB and fastfilesystem doesn't handle well partitions larger than 2GB.
I'll buy a bigger SD card and try it as well with the new firmware.
I'm running a different filesystem so it will be a good test.
/MikeJ
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Mike, do not forget that FAT filesystem has ~4GB limit on file size. Please also remember that Amiga OS 3.1 scsi.device do not support drives larger than 4GB and fastfilesystem doesn't handle well partitions larger than 2GB.
Thanks Yaqube.
I must send you the update to play with, it seems relatively stable now - although I still cannot go up in the file viewer...
Quite right, even though the filesystem supports fat32 the Amiga os may be an issue. I don't know much about that end of things.
Oh well, surely 2GB is enough for anybody ;)
/MikeJ
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I have the file and it is about 10GB large (the hardfile). It works nice on WinUAE though -- as you also probably have tried. Yet, I would have to shrink it a little down to fit my 8GB SDIO card to test on the Replay first. I will bring it home and try and see if it works. It boots up a plain OS3.1 with WHDLoad on it and a ton of games/demos -- so I think it will work pretty nice. Just have to test it first :D
Thanks for that link. It'll be a nice baseline for my new hardfile :)
Espen
unless that is a newer version of that same hardfile, it expands out to a 8GB HDF (too big for FAT32), however its less than 1/2 full so I was able to copy everything to a 4GB hardfile that worked on my Minimig 1.1.
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And I received it..
It's an LC version, and it's soldered to the board. No go unfortunately. I guess I'll have to put my faith in MikeJ's angels and their awesome 060-hunting-skills :)
060's are pretty hard to find in large number of stock (at least in Shenzhen) and all the ones I've came across are 2nd hand I dont believe there is any NOS for such a old CPU.. On top of that theres the temptation for resellers to shave off the tops of lower CPU's and relabel them as 060's.. Wish Mike the best of luck it certainly wont be easy and challenging..
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Build a portable '060' tester? ;)
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Build a portable '060' tester? ;)
yeah you would definitely bring along something to test the CPU with.. even if you ask your dedicated chinese reseller, they will always listen to what you need, then buy it from another reseller for you so 060's will come from alot of different multiple sources..
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The Replay board itself is a portable tested, I am trying to get a ZIF socket for the processor.
The mask revision is contained in the PCR register, does anybody know what this register should contain for each mask set?
/MikeJ
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The Replay board itself is a portable tested, I am trying to get a ZIF socket for the processor.
The mask revision is contained in the PCR register, does anybody know what this register should contain for each mask set?
/MikeJ
there doesn't appear to be any documentation on revision, but from a quick google.
http://cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/ref_manual/MC68060UM.pdf
http://cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/errata/MC68060DE.pdf?fpsp=1&WT_TYPE=Errata&WT_VENDOR=FREESCALE&WT_FILE_FORMAT=pdf&WT_ASSET=Documentation
switch( (PCR >> 16) & 0xffff)
{
case 0x430:
printf( "MC68060\n" );
break;
default:
printf( "MC68LC060/MC68EC060/something else\n" );
break;
}
switch( (PCR >> 8) & 0xff)
{
case 1:
printf( "1F43G\n");
break;
case 6:
printf( "0E41J\n" );
break;
default:
printf( "1G65V/2G59Y/something else\n" );
break;
}
revision 6 appears to be the golden one. if you google 68060 revision 6 then everyone goes mental for it.
afaict only full 68060's were availble as revision 6.
-
Quite right, even though the filesystem supports fat32 the Amiga os may be an issue.
The FAT32 has also 4GB file size limit.
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The FAT32 has also 4GB file size limit.
On your daughterboard design, will the card reader on there have the same limitations? Would it be possible to use use 2 x 4GB HDF files via the FPGA card reader and another 2 x 4GB HDF files on the daughterboard card read to have 4 x 4GB "hard drives" available to Workbench?
Using the daughterboard USB, would it be possible to mount a large (>4GB) external USB hard drive using SFS or PFS3?
Edit: Where did all of those typos come from???!! I ned a knew ceybord!
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On your daughterboard design, will teh card reader on theer have teh same limitations? Would it be possible to use use 2 x 4GB HDF files via the FPGA card reader and anotehr 2 x 4GB HDF files on the daughterboard card read to have 4 x 4GB "hard drives" available to Workbench?
No, the daughterboard card reader is visible as Amiga hard drive and not as hard file emulator. You can format it with whatever filesystem you like. The limitations are imposed by filesystem handler you use.
Using the daughterboard USB, would it be possible to mount a large (>4GB) external USB hard drive using SFS or PFS3?
Yes, USB host controller uses Poseidon USB stack so it is the limiting factor.
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No, the daughterboard card reader is visible as Amiga hard drive and not as hard file emulator. You can format it with whatever filesystem you like. The limitations are imposed by filesystem handler you use.
Excellent. So in theory I could put in a 20GB card and format it as a single 20GB PFS3 drive or a 2GB FFS and a 18GB PFS3, etc?
Meanwhile HDF files on the main FPGA board's card reader will still be available to mount?
Yes, USB host controller uses Poseidon USB stack so it is the limiting factor.
Excellent. Having used Poseidon for several years now, it is a great stack and I'm glad we'll have it on the FPGA Arcade. The expansions options it will add will be almost limitless.
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Excellent. So in theory I could put in a 20GB card and format it as a single 20GB PFS3 drive or a 2GB FFS and a 18GB PFS3, etc?
Yes. But there are FFS versions which support partitions larger than 2GB (OS3.5 or 3.9) so you could have one 32GB FFS partition.
Meanwhile HDF files on the main FPGA board's card reader will still be available to mount?
Of course.
Excellent. Having used Poseidon for several years now, it is a great stack and I'm glad we'll have it on the FPGA Arcade. The expansions options it will add will be almost limitless.
Exactly. I wonder if dedicated micro SD card reader is necessary because an USB micro SD card reader connected to daughterboard USB port reaches transfers over 13MB/s.
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Exactly. I wonder if dedicated micro SD card reader is necessary because an USB micro SD card reader connected to daughterboard USB port reaches transfers over 13MB/s.
True.
I would say that if it doesn't add too much to the overall cost then the micro SD card is handy to keep the main components "all in one box" rather than forcing you to lug an external drive around have have one clutter up the desk.
From my A4000 point of view, I still use internal hard drives rather than an external drive attached to the USB port which relies on my correctly flashing the ROM on my Deneb for it to be detected at boot time or hoping that the USB stack doesn't go "tits up". I assume this will be a similar case with the micro SD card and it will be immediately available to the system to boot from. :)
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The FAT32 has also 4GB file size limit.
Yes this is true. Possible to span a virtual disk over multiple files?
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Maybe time to consider another filesystem than FAT32 ?
UFS perhaps? ;)
-
Maybe EXT3/4 would be a better option. It's (in my experience) faster with many small files than UFS.
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Mike I am also interested in replay board + daughter board + 060!
BTW: what is estimated price of full set, including replay board + daughter board + 060?
Any expected time of availability?
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BTW: what is estimated price of full set, including replay board + daughter board + 060?
Any expected time of availability?
No idea. Considering Mike is still trying to get his hands on a bunch of 68060 chips it will be impossible for him to say. I'd recommend just get the main board when it is available again and wait on the daughter board.
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ah ha, we have struck E41Js apparently!
It remains to be seen if they are real ones ....
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Cool hope they are real!! Good luck with your searching (:
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ah ha, we have struck E41Js apparently!
It remains to be seen if they are real ones ....
Woot!!! Fingers crossed.... :D
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Yes this is true. Possible to span a virtual disk over multiple files?
Yeah, thats how wii & ps2 iso's can be loaded from fat32.
It's slightly annoying but not as annoying as using another filesystem.
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Hi all there ;)
For those who are interested, I have made a little video of one FPGA Arcade board in action and fully assembled in a Mini ITX case with the ATX Adapter and I/O Backpanel.
You can see some pictures of the assembling and the video HERE (http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade).
Mike and Yakube are doing a very great work ;)
It really worth it ;)
Thanks, Faranheit
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Very nice! I really envy the people who already got one!
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Hi all there ;)
For those who are interested, I have made a little video of one FPGA Arcade board in action...
Hi,
Just curiosity: what is the highest screen resolution available on FPGA Replay Board there? I ask in context of 16:9 monitor displays...
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Hi,
Just curiosity: what is the highest screen resolution available on FPGA Replay Board there? I ask in context of 16:9 monitor displays...
Depends also on frame rate. It has been tested at 1920x1080 and 1280x720 etc.
/MikeJ
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Would love to buy one of these, but when will some be available again?
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Hello guys, could you please tell me if it is possible to install this hardfile on the FPGA Arcade.
http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/4851840/The_Amiga_Master_Collection_ready_to_run_HEAVY_LIFTING_DONE_
This hardfile is very complete,ate least for me :-)
I´m very interested in this great board as my future amiga replacement.
Thanks in advance.
What program did you use to unzip this file? I downloaded a couple of free programs and all I get is "file not compatible" type messages. Thanks
-
I think i used 7zip or winrar, one of them that´s for sure.
-
Some months ago I was honoured to be told I was "the next" to get a Replay...
Well now we have some non-Replay news here
http://www.reghardware.com/2012/05/22/chip_maker_via_outs_49_dollar_raspberry_pi_alike/
Interestingly VIA now have a name for the Replay board form factor - Neo ITX
I wonder if any other standards will emerge while I patiently wait
-
Some months ago I was honoured to be told I was "the next" to get a Replay...
Well now we have some non-Replay news here
http://www.reghardware.com/2012/05/22/chip_maker_via_outs_49_dollar_raspberry_pi_alike/
Interestingly VIA now have a name for the Replay board form factor - Neo ITX
I wonder if any other standards will emerge while I patiently wait
Oh, they have "stolen" my form factor, it's exactly the same size and mounting holes.
/MikeJ
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Methanoid - yes you are next. To clarify the situation ...
Sorry I have been quiet the last few days, I have been away at a music festival drinking far too much. I have received a complete barrage of email about Faranheit's advertising of the Replay board.
We have been in contact for a while and I have been using him as pre-production non-developer beta tester. I agreed that he could put boards in cases and resell them if he wished, but that other distributors may come on line, and the boards would always be available directly from the http://www.fpgaarcade.com website.
The price for the current boards is 199Euro + VAT for the non-composite/svhs version and 229Euro +VAT with. VAT in Sweden is 25%. I can ship without VAT to companies only in the EU. Everybody who has mailed me and requested a board is still in the queue and will be prioritized over the disti channels!
Producing boards is not a problem, but I do not want to sign off the PO for assembly of the next batch until I am 100% happy. I have about 30 boards which are not stable because the DRAM timing is fixed in the current core - and every chip will have slightly different timing. So, the full validation is being held up until I am totally happy, then we press the button.
The new core looks pretty much the same as before, but a whole lot of infrastructure has changed to support multiple cores and dynamic configuration etc. A number of people are working converting different games or platforms to the board.
It has been a long journey, but we really are reaching the good bit now.
Thank you for your patience ;)
MikeJ
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
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I think i used 7zip or winrar, one of them that´s for sure.
Thanks, 7Zip worked, Winrar and another (can't remember the name) didn't. I hate these files that you have to go searching for specific program to get them to open.
Is this board going to be available from Amigakit or the FPGA arcade site in the future or is it just going to be "on the waiting list" type of thing?
-
The new core looks pretty much the same as before, but a whole lot of infrastructure has changed to support multiple cores and dynamic configuration etc. A number of people are working converting different games or platforms to the board.
It has been a long journey, but we really are reaching the good bit now.
Thank you for your patience ;)
MikeJ
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
Cheers for the update Mike. I'm on a trip for 4 weeks. I'm hoping for a new core by then...
Pretty please. :D
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Thanks Mike for the exciting update! This is very cool and I will be one happy camper when these babies start shipping. Keep up the good work!
Mike
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Thanks Mike for the exciting update! This is very cool and I will be one happy camper when these babies start shipping. Keep up the good work!
Mike
Now he's just teasing us!! :-)
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MikeJ, I think I speak for everybody when I say... gimme! gimme! gimme! :D
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MikeJ, I think I speak for everybody when I say... gimme! gimme! gimme! :D
You mean...
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/Linda_La_Hughes.jpg)
???!!!
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@Darrin
Not quite what I had in mind!
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Is the second batch (some 200 hundred, was it?) getting ready ?
When can we hope to see the order form on your site Mike ?
Cheers, and keep up the good work !
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So my situation is this...
I was holding out for the NatAmi but since it's been put on the shelf i am now looking at the FPGA Arcade instead. Can someone tell me how much it will cost and how long it will take to get it after i pay for it?
-
So my situation is this...
I was holding out for the NatAmi but since it's been put on the shelf i am now looking at the FPGA Arcade instead. Can someone tell me how much it will cost and how long it will take to get it after i pay for it?
Don't know why everyone keep saying it's put on the shelf.
It's still progressing. Just slower then before.
Go to http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php if you need your Natami fix.
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NatAmi is NOT cancelled. It has just gone a bit more underground. Development may (or not) even go faster this way.
Anywayz... it definitely isn't near launch. So, the spotlight is on the FPGA Replay. I want to buy one, and then when NatAmi gets released in a year or two, I will buy that one too. I want to support all those guys doing such a fantastic work for the Amiga community.
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So my situation is this...
I was holding out for the NatAmi but since it's been put on the shelf i am now looking at the FPGA Arcade instead. Can someone tell me how much it will cost and how long it will take to get it after i pay for it?
From MikeJ in the current thread on AmigaWorld.net:
The price for the current boards is 199Euro + VAT for the non-composite/svhs version and 229Euro +VAT with. VAT in Sweden is 25%. I can ship without VAT to companies only in the EU. Everybody who has mailed me and requested a board is still in the queue and will be prioritized over the disti channels!
For people in the USA, if the Euro crisis doesn't get resolved soon, 199Euro might equal $1 by Christmas.
-
From MikeJ in the current thread on AmigaWorld.net:
For people in the USA, if the Euro crisis doesn't get resolved soon, 199Euro might equal $1 by Christmas.
Also mentioned here:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=693913#post693913
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AUD$293. That's pretty good. I'm definitely interested :)
Thanks guys. I'm planning to use a Fractal case. The same as used in the X1000 but mine will be the mini version seen below. I'm saving my pennies starting now.
(http://hothardware.com/newsimages/Item15712/fractal-mini.jpg)
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Now i'm interested in the replay what kind of benchmarks are there to drool over? Has someone done any yet? What kind of speeds are we talking about?
If i recall correctly FPGA is not recognized by SYSINFO :confused:
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What's the expected ETA on the daughterboard, Mike?
I'm not a gamer at all on the Amiga side, and the reason I want the fpga arcade is because of the daughterboard. I plan on running my BBS on the machine, and for that I absolutely need ethernet - the mainboard is a paperweight to me without ethernet, since I do virtually no gaming on the Amiga.
With ethernet on the daughterboard, I can simply install the OS, apps, and BBS software on the memory card and use SAMBA to pull my BBS files off my Windows HS 2011 to serve up to the callers. Works a treat on my current SAM 440ep rig with a SSD on it.
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Don't know why everyone keep saying it's put on the shelf.
It's still progressing. Just slower then before.
Go to http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php if you need your Natami fix.
Is it possible for NatAmi to go any slower without going backwards? :D
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Is it possible for NatAmi to go any slower without going backwards? :D
:) yes of course.
But don't think it will go as far as going backwards. That would mean that they remove things they have already done on the MX.
Actualy it did take some steps back when jumping from the LX to the MX version.
Be patient or not. But ppl need to stop taking anything Amiga related to serious.
The Natami, FPGA Arcade, Minimig, X1000, MOS, AROS won't become what Amiga was before.
-
Damn fine project shame it's taking too long. Keep it non 060 and crazy 3d stuff and release whats ready now. Relase upgrades via firmware updates. I did the logo for the Natami project. At any rate I wish him the best and I will purchase it whenever its ready.
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Regarding the memory controller on FPGA Replay. Maybe a solution is to have the logic-core to measure and adapt the timing to the memory on-the-fly ..?, or at least som kind of dynamic update.
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No talk on this lately?
I would like to hear from the folks that have a FPGA Replay board in hand.
How close does it behave to a real Amiga? Any weird issues with it?
General discussion would be great!
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No talk on this lately?
I would like to hear from the folks that have a FPGA Replay board in hand.
How close does it behave to a real Amiga? Any weird issues with it?
General discussion would be great!
I've had a prototype for over a year now and I use it as my "main Amiga" along with my Minimig, Chameleon, A4000 and A2000 (in that order).
Once it boots the core (which takes a couple of seconds), you may as well be using a "real" Amiga. The only distraction is getting used to using ADF files instead of floppies.
I have a couple of SD cards. One of them boots to a 68000 compatible ClassicWB 3.1 which works perfectly while the other boots to a doctored version of ClassicWB 3.9 which unfortunately suffers from problems due to some bugs in the 68020 soft core.
I have WHDLoad set up and working from a 2GB hard file. It is fast and most games (including AGA) work fine.
The basic board can be best described as an A1200 with extra Fast RAM, a turbo charged 68020, Scan Doubler, hard drive (2 possible), 4 "floppy drives". Add o that the ability to switch between 68000 and 68020 CPUs, OCS/ECS/AGA and allocate your RAM as you wish between Chip and Fast (plus a few other things).
The new firmware when it is released should give us access to the other video outputs, RTG graphics modes (I think I read that Mike had tested a 1920x1080 screen), access to a lot more RAM and bug fixes.
The expansion board with a real 68060 CPU will eliminate any remaining soft-CPU bugs, add a network port, USB, more RAM, more storage (IIRC the mini-SD card slot will work just like a direct hard drive so no need for had files).
All in all, I'm very happy with it as it is. I'm going to love it even more when Mike releases that core update.
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I've had a prototype for over a year now and I use it as my "main Amiga" along with my Minimig, Chameleon, A4000 and A2000 (in that order).
Once it boots the core (which takes a couple of seconds), you may as well be using a "real" Amiga. The only distraction is getting used to using ADF files instead of floppies.
I have a couple of SD cards. One of them boots to a 68000 compatible ClassicWB 3.1 which works perfectly while the other boots to a doctored version of ClassicWB 3.9 which unfortunately suffers from problems due to some bugs in the 68020 soft core.
I have WHDLoad set up and working from a 2GB hard file. It is fast and most games (including AGA) work fine.
The basic board can be best described as an A1200 with extra Fast RAM, a turbo charged 68020, Scan Doubler, hard drive (2 possible), 4 "floppy drives". Add o that the ability to switch between 68000 and 68020 CPUs, OCS/ECS/AGA and allocate your RAM as you wish between Chip and Fast (plus a few other things).
The new firmware when it is released should give us access to the other video outputs, RTG graphics modes (I think I read that Mike had tested a 1920x1080 screen), access to a lot more RAM and bug fixes.
The expansion board with a real 68060 CPU will eliminate any remaining soft-CPU bugs, add a network port, USB, more RAM, more storage (IIRC the mini-SD card slot will work just like a direct hard drive so no need for had files).
All in all, I'm very happy with it as it is. I'm going to love it even more when Mike releases that core update.
Awesome. This is what I want to hear.
Have you tried any Demo's on it? I am wondering how well games and demo's that bang directly on the hardware respond.
What about audio apps like Protracker and Octamed?
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Awesome. This is what I want to hear.
Have you tried any Demo's on it? I am wondering how well games and demo's that bang directly on the hardware respond.
What about audio apps like Protracker and Octamed?
I'm not a demo sort of guy so to be honest, I haven't. If there is a particular one (or ones) you would like me to try then let me know and I'll test them. I won't be home for 2 weeks though so hang in there. :)
I haven't tried any tracker programs. I have Octamed somewhere (and an older one called Sonic or something).
-
I've run quite a lot of demos, they are a good way of testing the accuracy of the hardware.
I will get my sticky hands on the 68060s shortly...
MikeJ
-
Hi :)
I have also ran many games and demos and It runs fine.
It's very enjoyable to use this board even for Workbench.
Delitracker II runs very well on it for example.
I'll try to test Protracker or other tracker software on it as soon as I can.
Thanks to Mike for his great job :)
Laurent aka Faranheit
-
I will get my sticky hands on the 68060s shortly...
Regardless 68060 expansion card (that is a future subject for a moment): what about next supply of FPGA Arcade? Please to share some news.
Thanks,
-
Thanks for the great report Darrin. This is a product I'd love to have when it's available to the rest of us.
-
Regardless 68060 expansion card (that is a future subject for a moment): what about next supply of FPGA Arcade? Please to share some news.
Thanks,
+1
When will we see the online order form ?
-
Who i can by a Arcade Replay Board ?
I have write Mikej 1 Year Ago.
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Mike J has announced that once he gets the memory stuff straightened out with the board. That he will push play at the production facilities and they will become available through Mike J's distributors that he has setup with. He stated that if you e-mailed him. The list will be disseminated to his distributors and you will be contacted by one of them after mass manufacturing takes place. How long will this take, what is the ETA? I cannot speak for him so I'll let him speak for himself. He knows we are all eagerly awaiting the mass release of this product and that we all appreciate his efforts to deliver it to us.
-
who is the uk official distributor?
Do they have set prices?
-
who is the uk official distributor?
Do they have set prices?
I thought MikeJ was distributing them himself through his website, although I'd bet that Vesalia and AmigaKit might also be interested in doing so at some point. No-one has spoken up about if they will or not though.
The prices seem to hover around the £220 region with the soft-68k CPU but obviously there's always some fluctuation between the estimated final price and the real final price.
If you plan to save up or set aside about £250 then you should be able to afford whatever the basic model is plus postage and packaging etc. That's what I'm trying to do :)
Andy
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What are the most up-to-date forums for FPGA Replay currently?
(amiga.org seems pretty inactive)
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What are the most up-to-date forums for FPGA Replay currently?
(amiga.org seems pretty inactive)
To be honest, I think the current beta-owners are rather quiet because we're waiting for the new core, so there isn't much to report. I know I shelved my own software testing many months ago because I din't want to have to retest everything again.
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Has the source been released to anyone?, it was supposed to be an open source project. But that doesn't seem to materialize fully.
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The natami seems more or less dead now, i intended to get both a replay and a natami, this leaves only the replay for me... I want one, nooow! :)
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It's certainly been a very long wait, I'm still not sure why Mike didn't seek business investment to get this to the market quicker?
I'm sure companies like AmigaKit/ACube would love to have sponsored such an interesting project.
-
Partnerships has their own pitfalls. Being just one person that makes the decisions certainly makes that process easier, albeit perhaps slower.
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Hi all there ;)
Effectively, for the moment, as most people, I'm waiting the new core for testing it with the Replay board and also some news from Mike on when boards will be sent ;)
I remind that this project is a very hard one and it's done by only a few people, so, even if I am very empressed getting the boards as everyone here and everywhere else, just still give some time to Mike for finalizing firmware, boards and commercial agreement.
All these things take many time ;)
Laurent aka Faranheit
AMEDIA COMPUTER LUX
Technico-Commercial
Luxembourg
Mail : retrogaming@amiga-computer.com
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I don't think Mike J will bury his project like Thomas Hirsch did with his private Natami boards/forums.
-
Communication and source releases are little more than a distraction at this point.
Mike J is probably just too busy building something awesome to worry about that stuff right now.
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Keeping sources available is a matter of ensuring that the project doesn't die out from one person and that many people can contribute.
I don't think Mike J will bury his project like Thomas Hirsch did with his private Natami boards/forums.
Is NatAmi dead-dead?
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Is NatAmi dead-dead?
No, the Natami is not dead. And considering that digiflip led a personal crusade against Natami some months ago, I would take anything that he says about it with a grain of salt.
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I don't think Mike J will bury his project like Thomas Hirsch did with his private Natami boards/forums.
Several people have the source code and are actively working towards the first release.
/Mike
p.s. I have some rather nice 68060s now. I'll post some pics.
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No, the Natami is not dead. And considering that digiflip led a personal crusade against Natami some months ago, I would take anything that he says about it with a grain of salt.
I think the bullies at natami forums killed it without any ones else's help.
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So what is the status of the Natami project in short?
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So what is the status of the Natami project in short?
The main hardware designer, Thomas Hirsch, has left the project and nobody knows if he's planning to come back. The remaining hardware designers have formed a splinter faction that is working on the Apollo N68070 core with hopes of it making some headway in the industry and releasing binaries of the core as freeware for hobbyists like ourselves.
Correction: As Hattig pointed out in the next post, Thomas is still planning on coming out with the softcores for SuperAGA or whatever it ends up being called. He didn't actually leave the team, he left the forum to have more time to work on it.
As for the blame, mainly the one to blame has taken on a big chunk of the project and is working on it anyway. I haven't spoken to the hardware guys for a long time. They've taken a lot of flak and don't deserve all of it. (Some maybe, but not all.)
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The only people to blame for pessimism about Natami are the guys creating the Natami, that have been talking it up for quite a long time. Now the hardware guy just wants to do it all himself as some sort of personal achievement thing... I have very little optimism that it will ever see the light of day in any form close to some of the stuff written on the Natami website. However the hardware did get to a second-board design, so hopefully there is some momentum there to get it completed - probably a long time after the FPGAArcade comes out.
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I'm watching both projects with interest and am going to try to do my part by working on making better Amiga drivers for AROS 68k. Specifically, I'm going to try to make the Copper support better than what AmigaOS ever had while still mapping it to equivalent other functionality on graphics cards.
Whether Thomas or MikeB comes out with a next-generation AGA core, either is fine with me. I just hope we can standardize on some of it so we don't end up fragmenting the Amiga market any more than it is.
Note some corrections in my previous post.
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Now if AROS 68k would work with E-UAE ..
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Good luck SamuraiCrow :-)
I certainly hope that all the FPGA Amigas can implement basic new features in a compatible manner, e.g., chunky graphics modes, 8/16/n channel audio, 24-bit audio, 96kHz audio, 32-bit/64-bit blitter, etc.
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I wish someone would make an FPGA thingy that lets you do the logic upload by ethernet(something else?) from your pc.
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How much may it cost? ;)
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I wish someone would make an FPGA thingy that lets you do the logic upload by ethernet(something else?) from your pc.
You just copy the FPGA file to the SD card, and the board boot loader does the rest.
/Mike
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^ Neat :)
I think this is the best possible solution.
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I do not believe that "being compatible" is a really big issue. Commercial software is not very propable for both platforms and when will it be developed using the OS and not hitting the hardware (how it happened in the old days because of lack of resources). Ports are often from Linux world and are not hitting the hardware either. Exception perhaps could be demo-programmers. So it is more important that components like CybergaphX or Warp3D are available and identical on both platforms than to have everything on the hardware side identical.
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^ Neat :)
I think this is the best possible solution.
As long as you don't need to replace the core every 2 minutes..
(due to writing a new one)
Sneakernet vs wired net..
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^ In that case you use the JTAG Xilinx programmer connected to the JTAG header and hit the "download" button on the chipscope debugger gui.
The ARM core will recognize the FPGA has been de-configured externally and sort itself out.
/Mike
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Sam trick possible for the ARM CPU simultainously? (ie without altering physical wires)
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I wish someone would make an FPGA thingy that lets you do the logic upload by ethernet(something else?) from your pc.
There are plenty of FPGA development boards that let you load the core over USB from a pc. It's a matter of using a controller cpu with a USB port.
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I wish the softcore could be used for an super fast 020 compatible FPGA on an accelerator card for classic Amigas. No need for PPC
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We'll get to that one eventually :)
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There are plenty of FPGA development boards that let you load the core over USB from a pc. It's a matter of using a controller cpu with a USB port.
Sure, but I'd hope for something high-profile that has readily available designs that work out of the box if/when I find out I have bought an expensive brick coz I'l too lazy to get properly cracking with VHDL.
Any "SD card emulators" that lets you wire a card thing to your PC and let it behave as one?
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I wish the softcore could be used for an super fast 020 compatible FPGA on an accelerator card for classic Amigas. No need for PPC
Understand that softcore 68k in FPGA will never compete with high-end PPC or ARM or x86. It should be somewhat better than Motorola 040 or 060 in modern FPGAs, but that's the best we'll hope for. Not a 2GHz 680x0.
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There are plenty of FPGA development boards that let you load the core over USB from a pc. It's a matter of using a controller cpu with a USB port.
Some FPGAs allow you to do partial reconfiguration of then on the fly. Use the PCAP or ICAP interfaces (I think Spartan3 is external so needs kindof connected to itself, Spartan6 has this internal) Make a controller capable of sending a selected reconfig bitstream over that interface and you should be good, and that controller should be able to live inside the FPGA. It's been a while since I've looked into that, but it made sense a few years ago.
I'd imagined a PCI (or Zorro) card that could be various things at different times, pick a partial-bitstream to send to the card and have it reconfigure itself to that. Think hardware codecs for mp3, avi, mpeg2, mpeg4, fivx, etc. that would change out based on what file you were playing. I'm finally very recently learning how to do such things, but not sure what I'll actually end up tinkering with.
http://www.cmpe.boun.edu.tr/caslab/publications/selfReconf_final.pdf
http://www.mn.uio.no/ifi/english/research/projects/cosrecos/publications/paper/fpt10koch_demo.pdf
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/34524/loading-an-fpga-image-with-selectmap
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I'd imagined a PCI (or Zorro) card that could be various things at different times, pick a partial-bitstream to send to the card and have it reconfigure itself to that. Think hardware codecs for mp3, avi, mpeg2, mpeg4, fivx, etc. that would change out based on what file you were playing. I'm finally very recently learning how to do such things, but not sure what I'll actually end up tinkering with.
That sounds interesting... but you're *way* ahead of me. ;-) I just managed to install the Xilinx software and compile an example for the dev board I'm considering. - A LED blinker... the hardware version of "hello world" ;-) I'll have to take a look at opencores.org and see what kind of codecs are there.
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Sure, but I'd hope for something high-profile that has readily available designs that work out of the box if/when I find out I have bought an expensive brick coz I'l too lazy to get properly cracking with VHDL.
Altera makes a board the DE2, I believe.. anyway, the OCS version of minimig has been ported to it. Not sure what else. But I think I'll wait for the Replay. Still, the XULA board from XESS is only $55 and has RAM and the USB programming port. Not as expensive a brick. ;-)
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I want one of these... how do I get on the list?
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I emailed them through the web site and never heard anything. I hope I am on the list.
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I emailed them through the web site and never heard anything. I hope I am on the list.
Email me again with your "ravard" user name, I don't think I received any mail from you.
use the support@fpgaarcade.com email address.
Just sourced some 68060 sockets. They were not easy to get in China!
/Mike
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Just sourced some 68060 sockets. They were not easy to get in China!
/Mike
But 060 extansion boards are useless without FPGA base board.
Any news appreciated. Are these boards going to the market in the same time?
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I emailed you from my ravard email address. Thanks!
Email me again with your "ravard" user name, I don't think I received any mail from you.
use the support@fpgaarcade.com (support@fpgaarcade.com) email address.
Just sourced some 68060 sockets. They were not easy to get in China!
/Mike
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But 060 extansion boards are useless without FPGA base board.
Any news appreciated. Are these boards going to the market in the same time?
+1
Will there be an online order form ?
Sadly, I cannot buy one if it is only through email and PMs.
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+1
Will there be an online order form ?
Sadly, I cannot buy one if it is only through email and PMs.
Yes, the new website will feature on-line ordering.
I am also talking to a number of Amiga distributors.
The fact my day job has gone crazy and I am spending 60% of my time in China has not helped recently. The new core is now working, and we are testing extensively.
I have 40 boards still in stock which are in Stockholm waiting for me to test and ship.
I am taking ~8 weeks off to get this thing done, starting on Monday.
The main board will be production released and be available in the next few weeks.
There were a few problems, but these are resolved now. The daughter board is in final layout stage. There are some design decisions still to be made, but I have sourced all the components for ~15 prototype boards now.
Again, sorry it is taking some time but I have invested a huge amount of time and money in this, and it will happen. It is just too risky to build many 100s of boards before I am 100% happy.
About 20 boards are in the field now, and all working perfectly. Let's keep it that way ;)
/MikeJ
(Shekou, Shenzhen China)
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Wow,
So let us keep our fingers crossed then.
Good luck.
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Thanks Mike :)
Take your time, and don't hurry. Better to do it properly then rush it.
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In Stockholm!?! Are you Swedish?
I live in gothenburg/sweden.
I have tried to order via this thread, pm and mail.
I still haven't got any confirmation. Maybe you could publish your order list to calm people down?
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Mike, are you currently shipping?
I have not answered my previous 2 emails...
--- edited
Ok, I read now your last post here, sorry... You seem real busy. Take care with your job first.
I'll wait.
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Awesome news. This is going to be a fun project!
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Awesome news. This is going to be a fun project!
Yeah, I can't wait! Not least because DPaint is still 50x better than GrafX2.
Btw, what's the best classic development toolset these days (besides assembly, I don't quite have the time to go to that level)? I'm thinking C with some Amiga-specific libraries to take advantage of the custom hardware...
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WHOA !! New drop-in replacement 68k softcore ???
Wonder if this is better than tobiflexx core ?
http://www.eeherald.com/section/new-products/nps201207054.html
New Products
Date: 05/07/2012
Newest version of the 68000 processor IP core from Digital Core Design
Digital Core Design has introduced the newest version of the Motorola’s 68000 16/32-bit microprocessor. D68000 is a low cost 32-bit MCU. Improved architecture enables this IP Core to run with uCLinux and hence can be used as HTTP server or FTP client.
The D68000 is 100% compatible with original Motorola’s 68000. As a proof to mention, a test run on classic Amiga 500+ computer showed that DCD’s CPU can be 1:1 replacement for original chip, as per Digital Core Design . But classic computers are not the target destination for the product, cause improved architecture, creates new possibilities.
D68000 runs with uCLinux Operating System and hence makes this IP Core solution for embedded servers, certified to be used only with m68k processors. The BOA application is used as HTTP server and effective communication could be established through FTP protocol. uCLinux is a MMU-less derivative of Linux Operating System adopted for embedded solutions. It offers all of the Linux benefits including stability, common Linux Kernel API, multitasking, full featured TCP/IP networking, Virtual File System and reduces the amount of memory needed by its kernel and running applications (it uses just 400kB).
DCD’s solution is offered with fully automated test-bench and complete set of tests, which permit package validation at each stage of SoC design flow. “We have built special testing platform to run D68000 with uCLinux Operating System”, explains Jacek Hanke, president of Digital Core Design. “And to make this IP Core more user friendly, it’s being equipped with DoCD-BDM hardware debugger”.
The new IP Core from DCD is a technology enables engineer to employ it in either ASIC, Altera, Lattice or Xilinx FPGA chips. The D68000 is binary-compatible with m68k family of microprocessors, has a 16-bit data bus and a 24-bit address data bus. Its code is compatible with the MC68008, upward code compatible with the MC68010 virtual extensions and the MC68020 32-bit implementation of the architecture. The difference lies in improved instructions set, which permits to execute a program with a higher performance, than the standard 68000 core can provide. MULS, MULU take just 28 clock periods, the same as DIVS, DIVU. Optimized shifts and rotations, combined with shorter effective address calculation time and removed idle cycles make this IP Core more power efficient.
The D68000 is developed with DoCD-BDM hardware debugger, which provides debugging capability not only for the IP Core, but for the whole SoC system. DCD’s debugger is 100% compatible with BDM debug interfaces, working with its interfaces/cables: Public Domain cable, Macraigor Wiggler and P&E BDM cable. DoCD’s are supported by standard debugging tools like GNU GD8 debugger, Cosmic ZAP debugger and Tasking debugger.
Source: Digital Core Design
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WHOA !! New drop-in replacement 68k softcore ???
You'd have to test to compare to see which is "better". but I'd be surprised if you could afford a commercial core, let alone figure out how to be allowed to put it into a GPL project.
http://www.digitalcoredesign.com/ipcore/101/d68000/#info
There's other cores out there to play with as well. I suggest trying the one in the Suska atari project. It's free and GPL like Minimig is.
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even though im genuinely interested i m not sure if im going to invest in another amiga-compatible system any soon, especially id need 060 expansion to have it justified beyond what i already have. i hope though, it will be soon available in greater numbers and will encourage at least some developers from our divided camps to look back at 68k (and aros68k) with little more interest again.
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You'd have to test to compare to see which is "better". but I'd be surprised if you could afford a commercial core, let alone figure out how to be allowed to put it into a GPL project.
http://www.digitalcoredesign.com/ipcore/101/d68000/#info
There's other cores out there to play with as well. I suggest trying the one in the Suska atari project. It's free and GPL like Minimig is.
They've said they've tested the core in an A500 ... so would it be possible for them or somebody else to take that core and put it on a suitable FPGA that is mounted onto a PCB that itself can be mounted into the 68000 socket? (A600 is a bit more complex)
Bam! Super-fast 68000 ... still, it's not as interesting as a 68020, but I guess they're working on that as well.
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They've said they've tested the core in an A500 ... so would it be possible for them or somebody else to take that core and put it on a suitable FPGA that is mounted onto a PCB that itself can be mounted into the 68000 socket? (A600 is a bit more complex)
Bam! Super-fast 68000 ... still, it's not as interesting as a 68020, but I guess they're working on that as well.
If they tested it in an A500 then either someone there is an old Amiga fan or they found one cheap while looking for some old thing to plug a 68000 into for testing. And either they did make a special board for that purpose with an FPGA on it that plugs into socket, or they ran a cable from socket to some standard FPGA board similar to this (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=52364), and Shadowfire there is essentially doing what you speak of. Neat.
I'm sure you could buy their IP and make an FPGA board to put it into an A500 socket. Majsta is trying to do essentially the same thing for his A600 using the TG68. I'd have used the Suska's 68000 core if I was doing such a thing as a starting point, as it's already much closer to the 68000 socket. I understand that is being improved in TG68 and TG68 is also getting 020 and I think 32bit bus. More neat.
EAB's Robinsonb5 is also essentially doing the same thing (http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=815779&postcount=4).
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i remember majsta on natami forum saying hes gonna look at alternative cores suspecting they might be a better hoice. what cores, he didnt mention.
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i remember majsta on natami forum saying hes gonna look at alternative cores suspecting they might be a better hoice. what cores, he didnt mention.
I haven't felt convinced that he ever did look elsewhere though. I really wanted him to look into some simulations of the TG68 he was looking at and compare that with simulations of the Suska's 68k block to help him understand what was so weird about the TG68 and help him figure out what to wrap around TG68 to make it work in a normal 68000 socket. I don't think I succeeded in getting him to run simulations either, or in convincing him of their utility or importance. (I'm a verification engineer of ARM SoC chips, and I think that part is tremendously important and useful for what he's trying to do so blindly) And he seemed to me that he absolutely must do it with TG68 and not anything else for some reason. I tried suggesting that he work with the already much closer to what he needed Suska 68k, see that work better much sooner to help him debug his board design, then go back to TG68 if he must, but he seemed adamant that he must complete his design using TG68 and must avoid others for some reason.
I very much like his idea, and look forward to his results, as well as whatever comes from the other guys.
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Hi
Does anyone knows if FPGA Replay Board supports harddrives. Can i use to replace my amiga setup ?
thks
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FPGA Arcade with the daughterboard setup should be able to pretty much be able to replace a full system (USB, Ethernet, '060 socket) from what I understand. By full system I mean a kitted out legacy machine with accel, ethernet, USB addons.
Bare board supports memory cards just fine.
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Hi
Does anyone knows if FPGA Replay Board supports harddrives. Can i use to replace my amiga setup ?
thks
The bare FPGA supports HDF files (hard drive images) on the SD card (supports 2 drives). Last time I spoke to Jakub, his daughterboard was suposed to have a micro SD card slot which would act like a real hard drive (not a HDF).
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I haven't felt convinced that he ever did look elsewhere though. I really wanted him to look into some simulations of the TG68 he was looking at and compare that with simulations of the Suska's 68k block to help him understand what was so weird about the TG68 and help him figure out what to wrap around TG68 to make it work in a normal 68000 socket. I don't think I succeeded in getting him to run simulations either, or in convincing him of their utility or importance. (I'm a verification engineer of ARM SoC chips, and I think that part is tremendously important and useful for what he's trying to do so blindly) And he seemed to me that he absolutely must do it with TG68 and not anything else for some reason. I tried suggesting that he work with the already much closer to what he needed Suska 68k, see that work better much sooner to help him debug his board design, then go back to TG68 if he must, but he seemed adamant that he must complete his design using TG68 and must avoid others for some reason.
I very much like his idea, and look forward to his results, as well as whatever comes from the other guys.
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=6¬e=32232&x=2:
Posts 25
17 Jun 2012 23:44
I have some other cores in verilog that are faster but when I start working with them I ll tell you more. Also I have some papers Turkish authors regarding to Mc68K VHDL models and those papers are very interesting. Also there are some cores that are not public but I have them but didn't work with them yet. There was some talking about ao68000 who can work stable at 80Mhz.
sounds somewhat weird, and he doesnt seem very experienced, but looks like he actually wanted to look for alternatives. i think him being not a professional he might try to figure his way around that doesnt look reasonable to you, thats frequent with autodidacts..
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http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=6¬e=32232&x=2:
sounds somewhat weird, and he doesnt seem very experienced, but looks like he actually wanted to look for alternatives. i think him being not a professional he might try to figure his way around that doesnt look reasonable to you, thats frequent with autodidacts..
The ao68000 he mentions is not on a 68000 bus, it's a direct to wishbone bus processor, so that would have required a bridge and thus a lot more work. (I think that porting its companion aoocs project to FPGA Arcade would be fun too) Yea, he sounds like a hobbyist, no problem with a non-engineer trying to learn to do engineering work. We all had to start somewhere...
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Yea, he sounds like a hobbyist, no problem with a non-engineer trying to learn to do engineering work. We all had to start somewhere...
Yeah, although it can be annoying if someone asks the wrong question and then argues with the answer because it's not what they wanted to hear.
The skill is to know just how much detail to give when asking a question and when giving an answer. If you get that wrong then you're just wasting your time.
If you get an answer you don't like, you need to understand why the other person gave it as one or both of you might have misunderstood what the other was saying.
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The bare FPGA supports HDF files (hard drive images) on the SD card (supports 2 drives). Last time I spoke to Jakub, his daughterboard was suposed to have a micro SD card slot which would act like a real hard drive (not a HDF).
This is sounding more promising to me now.Coupled with lorianos miggy case this could be sweet.How powerful will this be?Any chance of getting a browser to run etc? I hope mike gets the new website up soon and provides more info.
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The bare FPGA supports HDF files (hard drive images) on the SD card (supports 2 drives). Last time I spoke to Jakub, his daughterboard was suposed to have a micro SD card slot which would act like a real hard drive (not a HDF).
Sooo how will I add (software) stuff to my FPGA Arcade system ? Or transfer work (pics, codes) from it to other systems ?
Floppy drives are not an option, right ?
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This is sounding more promising to me now.Coupled with lorianos miggy case this could be sweet.How powerful will this be?Any chance of getting a browser to run etc? I hope mike gets the new website up soon and provides more info.
As my A4000 surfs the net OK using iBrowse2 and a 68040, it shouldn't be an issue with an FPGA Arcade with a daughterboard & 68060 (It will have USB if you want a USB-Ethernet dongle, plus a networking port IIRC) and we'll have the RTG modes for the display. :)
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Sooo how will I add (software) stuff to my FPGA Arcade system ? Or transfer work (pics, codes) from it to other systems ?
Floppy drives are not an option, right ?
If you have the daughterboard then you can use a USB memory stick, USB CF Card Reader, USB-SATA/PATA adapter or a USB floppy drive with high density PC formatted floppies.
Alternatively, you can simply use UAE. I keep a profile on UAE for each of my "Minimigs" (Minimig v1.1, Chameleon64 and FPGA Arcade). That way I can take the SD card out of each machine containing the HDF files, boot them in UAE and copy any files onto the HDF while running Workbench or drag any ADF images onto the SD card. Backing up my "Minimigs" just means creating a folder on my Windows desktop and dragging the contents of my SD card over.
Another option could be to set up a simple network between your Minimig and PC via the serial port using something like "Amiga Explorer".
Personally I find the UAE option the easiest.
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Does AROS 68k run on FPGA Replay currently?
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Does AROS 68k run on FPGA Replay currently?
Haven't tried it yet. It is on my "to do" list.
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If you have the daughterboard then you can use a USB memory stick, USB CF Card Reader, USB-SATA/PATA adapter or a USB floppy drive with high density PC formatted floppies.
Alternatively, you can simply use UAE. I keep a profile on UAE for each of my "Minimigs" (Minimig v1.1, Chameleon64 and FPGA Arcade). That way I can take the SD card out of each machine containing the HDF files, boot them in UAE and copy any files onto the HDF while running Workbench or drag any ADF images onto the SD card. Backing up my "Minimigs" just means creating a folder on my Windows desktop and dragging the contents of my SD card over.
Another option could be to set up a simple network between your Minimig and PC via the serial port using something like "Amiga Explorer".
Personally I find the UAE option the easiest.
Thanx :)
Well, I wasn't planning on buying the daughterboard (at first). Too much dough. So, I guess Win UAE is the best option. But... if the board is enclosed it may not be so convenient to get the SD card out.
Hmmm... I'll have to think of something :)
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Btw,.. how much of the FPGA "space" is used currently?
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As far as I know owns Jason (the maintainer of Aros 68k) one of the FPGA Boards. So I think the chance that it at least will is pretty good :-)
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mike mentions on his site about a guy wanting to sell the fpga arcade in a case assembled.Must be loriano pagni id say.This is the way i will go with this.Would the daughterboard fit in the case with the fpga arcade or would it be seperate.Pardon my ignorance.
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Btw,.. how much of the FPGA "space" is used currently?
Hopefully Mike will answer that one with regards to the updated core.
Wizard66 quoted this a while back:
Minimig FPGA: 400K gates
FPGAARCADE FPGA: 1600K gates
FPGAARCADE FPGA Full 60% minimig core+softcore (CPU).
So "currently" it uses 60% if the space including the softcore. I guess the space uses by the softcore could be recoved if using the daughterboard with a real 68060.
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mike mentions on his site about a guy wanting to sell the fpga arcade in a case assembled.Must be loriano pagni id say.This is the way i will go with this.Would the daughterboard fit in the case with the fpga arcade or would it be seperate.Pardon my ignorance.
Loriano has said that the daughterboard will fit in the case.
As you can see from this pic of the FPGA fitted with the daughterboard, it really doesn't add much to the overall height:
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/RPX060PCB4.jpg)
Worth noting are the 3 USB2.0 ports, the mini-SD card slot, 10/100 Ethernet, Optical Audio Out, an extra 128MB of RAM (in addition to the 64MB on the FPGA Aracde main board) and the RTC. Drool! ;)
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Sorry I have been busy trying to gather the last bit of money (about £1800, more or less) to finish the case off...I am waiting for Mike to send me a board but if it's mini-itx and not higher than 54mm it should fit nicely.
I'd have the final prototype ready in a couple of weeks, hopefully in black.
Regards
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I'd have the final prototype ready in a couple of weeks, hopefully in black.
I can't wait to see it. :)
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(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/RPX060PCB4.jpg)
Worth noting are the 3 USB2.0 ports, the mini-SD card slot, 10/100 Ethernet, Optical Audio Out, an extra 128MB of RAM (in addition to the 64MB on the FPGA Aracde main board) and the RTC. Drool! ;)
Damn this is fine !
I might just stretch some more to get the daugtherboard as well.
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So "currently" it uses 60% if the space including the softcore. I guess the space uses by the softcore could be recoved if using the daughterboard with a real 68060.
i think the point with FPGA is to have it all in HDL-code such that one can tweak characteristics at will and share.
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doesn't the 060 need a heatsink? What kind of cooling is necessary in a unit like this?
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A 060 wouldnt need a heatsink if its running at 50 mhz.
Man that is a sweet setup.. drooool
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A 060 wouldnt need a heatsink if its running at 50 mhz.
Man that is a sweet setup.. drooool
Shame it is running at 100MHz... :D
Double drool!
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Running @ 100 MHz... wow, that would be a great puter to have.
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What models of 060 runs with 100MHZ ? Any one ?
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The EC models do, they were meant for imbedded devices like printers which have no need for FPU or MMU. Most commonly you see them for sale at 75 & 80 MHz
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The EC models do, they were meant for imbedded devices like printers which have no need for FPU or MMU. Most commonly you see them for sale at 75 & 80 MHz
I was under the impression that Jakub's 100MHz CPU was a full 68060 just overclocked and still running stable.
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So in essence the fpga arcade should be a more powerful a1200 with a high compatability rate.What percentage of compatability to old software should we expect.Will it be able to function as essentially a new and faster aga amiga computer? Also the other accelerator ram upgrade thingy project for the a500 looks sweet.Lots of cool miggy stuff about now.What to buy.With lorianos case+daughterboard+fpgaarcade this will be a wallet drought.
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I was under the impression that Jakub's 100MHz CPU was a full 68060 just overclocked and still running stable.
Correct, the final mask revision had greater timing margin and some chips can be run at >100MHz perfectly reliably.
/MikeJ
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So in essence the fpga arcade should be a more powerful a1200 with a high compatability rate.What percentage of compatability to old software should we expect.Will it be able to function as essentially a new and faster aga amiga computer? Also the other accelerator ram upgrade thingy project for the a500 looks sweet.Lots of cool miggy stuff about now.What to buy.With lorianos case+daughterboard+fpgaarcade this will be a wallet drought.
We aim for 100% compatibility, but with additional features which can be enabled or disabled.
High resolution video out (DVI/HDMI), new audio DAC, USB, ethernet etc.
/MikeJ
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Correct, the final mask revision had greater timing margin and some chips can be run at >100MHz perfectly reliably.
/MikeJ
Will the daughterboard have an option for setting the running speed for those who might add their own CPU and require a slower setting?
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So in essence the fpga arcade should be a more powerful a1200 with a high compatability rate.What percentage of compatability to old software should we expect.Will it be able to function as essentially a new and faster aga amiga computer? Also the other accelerator ram upgrade thingy project for the a500 looks sweet.Lots of cool miggy stuff about now.What to buy.With lorianos case+daughterboard+fpgaarcade this will be a wallet drought.
I started testing software on the base FPGA Arcade along with the Minimig v1.1 and Chameleon64 (obviously I was testing AGA versions on the FPGA Arcade and OCS/ECS versions on the others). I was launching them from WHDload first and if that failed then I would try from ADF files. Most software worked, but as Mike was about to release a new core I shelved the testing because I didn't want to have to retest stuff all over again.
any chance of the core update Mike?
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When I can get back to testing I'll try and publish something like this:
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/software.jpg)
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I started testing software on the base FPGA Arcade along with the Minimig v1.1 and Chameleon64 (obviously I was testing AGA versions on the FPGA Arcade and OCS/ECS versions on the others). I was launching them from WHDload first and if that failed then I would try from ADF files. Most software worked, but as Mike was about to release a new core I shelved the testing because I didn't want to have to retest stuff all over again.
any chance of the core update Mike?
I'm in much the same situation. I'm immensely impressed by the Replay project, as I can see the potential of this. To my mind, it exceeds the potential of the Natami project. There's nothing the NatAmi guys are doing which couldn't be done by coders working with the Replay Board.
What's holding me back right now is the partial 68020 compatibility, and the lack of a way of using graphics card modes, essentially limiting me to 68000 only and native Amiga modes. I don't want to spend a huge amount of time setting up a system stripped-down to meet these requirements (e.g. WB3.1+ClassicWB) only to then have to start again from scratch with something like OS3.9 + AmiKit or AmigaSys, etc. once I have faster CPU and gfx card support.
So for the time being, and with some sadness, I am not using my treasured Replay Board. This will change the very instant I have the daughterboard and the new core, as I will then be able to do so much more with it. I'll feel a lot better about investing a lot of time and energy into setting up a highly customised system once I know I won't have to restart all over again.
I remain very, very impressed by what MikeJ has been able to achieve, and the Replay Board itself is an incredibly professional, solid, reliable unit with a lot of potential. It's amazing what one man with a dream can achieve. It amazes me (and I've told Mike this) that Amiga, Inc. can't produce an Amiga board of their own, or even an OS of their own, with apparently millions of dollars of investment funding, yet Mike's being able to do this working completely on his own and without angel investors (I'm talking of the hardware unit itself - I'm not overlooking the considerable amount of software development done by core developers such as Jakub, of course, who've also done considerably impressive work too.)
Just can't wait to really get going with it. If only we could clone MikeJ so that he could take care of the mundane stuff like attending the day-job and paying the mortgage, so that our Mike could dedicate himself 24/7 to developing the Replay Board (minus maybe a few hours a day for sleep and pizza!)
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@ Shapeshifter:
I agree. If Amiga Inc had half a brain they would have offered to fund or at least sell Mike's project and given themselves a chance to sell SD cards containing official HDF files, Kickstart files, ADF files etc. Plus they could use their shop to sell more ADFs of games or other custom HDF files. At least they would have been selling something "Amiga" for minimim effort on their part.
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@ Shapeshifter:
I agree. If Amiga Inc had half a brain they would have offered to fund or at least sell Mike's project and given themselves a chance to sell SD cards containing official HDF files, Kickstart files, ADF files etc. Plus they could use their shop to sell more ADFs of games or other custom HDF files. At least they would have been selling something "Amiga" for minimim effort on their part.
I think Amiga Inc is done making anything for the Amiga platform. The only ones who make something new are few big players like Jens, MikeJ, and some small ones like Kipper2k and others.
The Amiga Inc just stands in a way, they could at least release the ROMs to public domain so others could pickup the pieces and sell complete systems.
Cant wait for the FPGA Replay Board being a complete product with 060 board and if the final price is right for me, I definitely going to get it.
My 2c.
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We aim for 100% compatibility, but with additional features which can be enabled or disabled.
High resolution video out (DVI/HDMI), new audio DAC, USB, ethernet etc.
/MikeJ
Sold! Im in.Gotta have one.will wait till its commercial though as I want one set up with the daughterboard in lorianos awesome miggy case.Hope you update the website soon as im eager to learn more about this project.
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I started testing software on the base FPGA Arcade along with the Minimig v1.1 and Chameleon64 (obviously I was testing AGA versions on the FPGA Arcade and OCS/ECS versions on the others). I was launching them from WHDload first and if that failed then I would try from ADF files. Most software worked, but as Mike was about to release a new core I shelved the testing because I didn't want to have to retest stuff all over again.
any chance of the core update Mike?
Cool.Thanks darrin.This should be a nice new toy for me.
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@ Shapeshifter:
I agree. If Amiga Inc had half a brain they would have offered to fund or at least sell Mike's project and given themselves a chance to sell SD cards containing official HDF files, Kickstart files, ADF files etc. Plus they could use their shop to sell more ADFs of games or other custom HDF files. At least they would have been selling something "Amiga" for minimim effort on their part.
I fully agree with you, my friend. I can think of a good dozen ways Amiga could've made some easy money with their brand, but for some reason they don't even bother to try. So much waffle, yet no action. I honestly am of the suspicion that a certain individual just wanted to live the high-life; put lots of money into his bank account, drive fast cars, etc. and his shady friends were just along for the ride. I honestly don't think they ever had any real interest in the Amiga or it's community - or even particularly cared about producing new products. I think the community, the people - we were just considered useful assets. Until we weren't relevant to their plans.
If I was running Amiga these days, I would be licensing the technology to anyone who expressed an interest in Amiga, and would be approaching hobbyist projects to see what we could do to help; people who are designing things like MikeJ's Replay Board, the Pi Foundation's board, and so on. I would also use my connections with venture capital firms to help these projects secure any kind of funding and connections they need to really take off, and designing networks of people which could help support various projects.
It's not hard to get out there and create something, if you've got the money for it. Goodness knows Amiga, Inc. must've had the money for it, if they had $5 million to buy the rights to Amiga. But you know, when I think of it today, it seems very hard to believe that someone put so much money into Amiga when they did absolutely *nothing* with it. Did they ever produce one line of original code, or one piece of hardware? AA was Elate, written by Tao Group. What else did Amiga do other than rebadge Elate?
Did Amiga even really pay $5 million for the assets? I know this is what they've claimed, but given everything else they've said is a lie, I wonder if the $5mil claim itself was even true. For all we know, Gateway just *gave* the Amiga name to Fleecy & Bill and said "get these annoying people off our backs, and 20% profit of whatever profit you make." I'd like to see the paperwork, at least.
Anyway, this is going off-track somewhat. I just wonder where we could've been today with an Amiga which had someone like MikeJ as Head of Engineering. I certainly suspect Mike could do a heck of a lot better with a budget of a few million to create products!
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Maybe mike J should use a kickstarter campaign if he needs to help fund fpgaarcade in some form or another.Heres hoping for another miggy project from mike j in the future.A handheld miggy/would be sweet.Hell if someone made the fpga arcade board into a handheld id bite.
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@Shapeshifter:
I seriously doubt that $5m figure too. Either that or there are a lot of investors out there licking their wounds.
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Mike J. Any eta on the new fpgaarcade website? This project is really cool.
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Any "SD card emulators" that lets you wire a card thing to your PC and let it behave as one?
To sin and follow up myself:
There seems to be a new SD standard with built-in WiFi just around the corner.
I have found references to 3 products of this type
- EyeFi (not following the standard I believe, but they were out before it)
- FlashAir from Toshiba
- Flucard
They all seem very focused on sending data _out_ of the card, and not so much for getting data _in_.
I'm waiting for reviews to see if these are useable.
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Different from SDIO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#SDIO) I presume?
Toshiba FlashAir (http://www.toshiba-components.com/FlashAir/index.html) only mentions being able to read from the card when inserted in a digital camera. Same with EyeFi (http://www.eye.fi/how-it-works/features/endless-memory) but Flucard (http://www.flu-card.com/flucard_pro.html) seems to support some P2P receive mode. The control is done with manipulation of "picture files", definitly an ad-hoc hack.
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Different from SDIO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital#SDIO) I presume?
Toshiba FlashAir (http://www.toshiba-components.com/FlashAir/index.html) only mentions being able to read from the card when inserted in a digital camera. Same with EyeFi (http://www.eye.fi/how-it-works/features/endless-memory) but Flucard (http://www.flu-card.com/flucard_pro.html) seems to support some P2P receive mode. The control is done with manipulation of "picture files", definitly an ad-hoc hack.
Yeah my understanding is the cards are intended to sync pictures to a PC and when the card is full they delete old pictures that have already been synced. No device will expect the card to change in real time, so before making changes it will have to simulate the card being ejected.
They are expensive because they are aimed at professional photographers, they use them for instant previews on large monitors in a studio. They aren't that new, just rare because of the cost.
It's entirely possible that they are generic enough to work with any type of file.
I would imagine that you'll be able to get remote access to the card from your PC eventually anyway.
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Any new news MikeJ?
Still really looking forward to you getting this released :)
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Hi,
It's going well - moving flat next week finally so actually shipping boards again will be possible. The work on the new core is progressing well and I am working on it full time currently.
/Mike
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I think the idea of getting some sort of Amiga equivalent of the apps store for Android/iOS is a great idea, thought about that a lot.
However the logistics involved in getting legal title to sell them even though most people have 20gb ADF TOSECs sitting on their hard drive already, and the fact there would need to be some sort of DRM and therefore more software extensions to UAE/WinUAE etc makes it financially a no go so doubt any company would do this.
The legality issue then also prevents you from doing a free ADF store for people to connect to via the internet and access like a giant virtual hard drive like via a software interface layer between host OS and the emulator/hardware using the ADF files.
Copyright destroys the scope of retro computing IMO.
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Copyright destroys the scope of retro computing IMO.
Ironically enforcing copyright would allow your app store to make some money. Piracy is your biggest hurdle.
The saddest thing for me is the lack of box and manual scans.
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Hi,
It's going well - moving flat next week finally so actually shipping boards again will be possible. The work on the new core is progressing well and I am working on it full time currently.
/Mike
Great news Mike! Ship me mine!!!!!! :insane:
Mike
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.. and the fact there would need to be some sort of DRM .
Why would you need that?
GOG doesn't use DRM when they sell older games?
desiv
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Would it be feasible to run a Sega Mega Drive core on the board, and to have an actual cartridge port on a daughter board?
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Sega megadrive#Technical specifications (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_megadrive#Technical_specifications)
* CPU: 68000 @ 7.61 MHz + Z80 @ 3.58 MHz
* RAM: 138 kB total
* Video: Yamaha YM7101 (seems pale compared even to a VIC-II)
* Sound: YM2612 5-channel FM and 1-channel FM/PCM, SN76489 4-channel Programmable Sound Generator
* Cartridge via serialized interface.
Yeah it seems doable. If someone actually get inclined enough to do it is another matter.
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Sega megadrive#Technical specifications (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_megadrive#Technical_specifications)
* CPU: 68000 @ 7.61 MHz + Z80 @ 3.58 MHz
* RAM: 138 kB total
* Video: Yamaha YM7101 (seems pale compared even to a VIC-II)
* Sound: YM2612 5-channel FM and 1-channel FM/PCM, SN76489 4-channel Programmable Sound Generator
* Cartridge via serialized interface.
Yeah it seems doable. If someone actually get inclined enough to do it is another matter.
FPGAGen
http://code.google.com/p/fpgagen/
:D
EDIT: even better, seems like he's done PC Engine and some others too http://www.torlus.com/
EDIT2: "THE EDITENNING": Obviously these aren't for the FPGAArcade, but they could be ported ;)
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With FPGAgen (http://code.google.com/p/fpgagen/) it should be a piece of cake to port to FPGA Replay etc.
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* Video: Yamaha YM7101 (seems pale compared even to a VIC-II)
Seriously?
512 colours, 3 playfields, lots of sprites.
Not a problem for an FPGA of course. I have several "tv-games" that are basically Megadrives with a built-in bunch of games, probably boiled down to a single chip to keep costs down. I bet they started life in an FPGA.
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Hi MikeJ,
Could you put me on the list for an FPGA Arcade board please.
Thanks!
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What about the OTHER FPGA cores? Atari ST, C64 etc....
I'm also very interested in them
I was prompted to post because when clearing out old emails I found one from MikeJ to me in April telling me I was "the next" to get a Replay board :(
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Thread bump!
Just wondering if there's any progress to report?
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Thread bump!
Just wondering if there's any progress to report?
I am happy to report that just recently the tread on the FPGAReplay board has been bumped.
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What about the OTHER FPGA cores? Atari ST, C64 etc....
I'm also very interested in them
I was prompted to post because when clearing out old emails I found one from MikeJ to me in April telling me I was "the next" to get a Replay board :(
You are ;)
I am still in moving hell, but unpacked the boards yesterday.
/MikeJ
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Where do you move? ;)
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Let we guess... to FPGA RB distribution centre?
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Let we guess... to FPGA RB distribution centre?
Next to chinese factory? :-D
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Too far away, it must be IN the chinese factory ;)
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Actually, with this kind of shipping time.. Can you put me on that list MikeJ?
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You are ;)
I am still in moving hell, but unpacked the boards yesterday.
/MikeJ
Any news on if/when they'll be mass produced? Have you been able to do any deals with AmigaKit/ACube/Vesalia etc?
Andy
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I have been in discussion with several distributors. If the beta testing goes well we are ready to roll out. I have moved within Stockholm, but everything has been packed up essentially for the last two months, very frustrating.
Just getting back to normal now.
/Mike
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I have been in discussion with several distributors. If the beta testing goes well we are ready to roll out. I have moved within Stockholm, but everything has been packed up essentially for the last two months, very frustrating.
Just getting back to normal now.
/Mike
If you want the definition of "frustrating", check out my Facebook page and my photo album on the house I'm building. I'm only about 12 months behind schedule. At least the cement slab has finally been laid, but now I'm waiting on a power line to be installed so the workers can use their tools.
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Diselmotor + generator = mains supply @ 230 V ;)
I guess tools = Amiga 4000T :P
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Diselmotor + generator = mains supply @ 230 V ;)
I guess tools = Amiga 4000T :P
LOL. I've alreday mentioned generators and even hand saws to them, but all I get is blank looks. :D
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I don't think I'd survive the stress of a self-build!
Can't wait for the FPGA Arcade though, glad to hear that things are moving along.
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LOL. I've alreday mentioned generators and even hand saws to them, but all I get is blank looks. :D
Better put the power generator in the bushes and tell them "electricity fixed - look wall socket!" :D
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Better put the power generator in the bushes and tell them "electricity fixed - look wall socket!" :D
LOL. Brilliant idea!
This is as far as they've got:
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/28s.jpg)
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Quite a nice house you are building there... ;)
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Quite a nice house you are building there... ;)
Thank you. I hope to share some pictures of my completed "Computer Room" when it is done. 3 Walls will consist of a large U shaped desk where I can hopefully set up all of my working machines. In the center of the room will be a large "project" table for the machines that are in pieces.
I still get the feeling that I'll run out of space and it will end up looking like a junk yard. :D
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Do a chalk sketch on the concrete :D
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Fear the Wife-factor ;)
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@Freqmax
If you don't mind me asking how much does land cost in the states?
That area you have cleared is at least 5 times larger than my house + gardens takes up! I can't imagine how much that would cost... you could buy the Amiga rights + anme for that! ;)
@MikeJ
Good luck with it Mike, I'm really hoping you pull this off nevermind what you decide to do with it in future versions. I'd like a buy one as soon as it's released.. depending on me getting a new job! :D
Andy
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@Freqmax
If you don't mind me asking how much does land cost in the states?
Depends on location. Some places land is insanely cheap, just you may not want to live there...
the square states generally cost less....
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Depends on location. Some places land is insanely cheap, just you may not want to live there...
the square states generally cost less....
Hmm, well yes ok that was a poorly phrased question on my part. I could have bought a house in Middlesbrough back when I was a student for a out £15,000... wouldn't have been worth it really granted the time since they're still only selling for a out £18,000 whereas my house which is the same size is worth quite a bit more ;)
Difference between Middlesbrough town centre and a nice leafy village in the country I guess ;)
Ok, but question still stands, it's scary how much land in the US costs compared to the UK
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Where did you get the idea that I have cleared land at all?
Anyway real estate pricing tend to be in parity with job oppertunities so it's usually the same more or less when considering the quota between living cost vs salary.
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Where did you get the idea that I have cleared land at all?
Anyway real estate pricing tend to be in parity with job oppertunities so it's usually the same more or less when considering the quota between living cost vs salary.
Sorry dude, wasn't meaning to be rude just curious. From the photo you posted it just looked like a huge piece of land and I was really surprised. Not that you could afford such a huge piece of land just, kinda... wow.
Anyway, nevermind, I apologise if it bothered you.
Andy
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Darrin is the one who posted the pic.
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Darrin is the one who posted the pic.
Ah ha! That'd be the 4 bottles of Leffe and 1 pint of Cider effecting my judgement then. Possibly a good time to bow out of further posting before I'm too pissed to spell ;)
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Where did you get the idea that I have cleared land at all?
Anyway real estate pricing tend to be in parity with job oppertunities so it's usually the same more or less when considering the quota between living cost vs salary.
Very true...
I could move just a few hours up north and have a pretty nice house for probably less than this small townhouse near Miami i just bought, but I don't think there are many programming jobs. Hard to imagine that it sold in 2007 for over 2X what I paid for it.
Right now Detroit area is very reasonable with property values around the same price of a new mid to high-end configured Apple computer.
I think in general the UK will cost more.
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Thank you. I hope to share some pictures of my completed "Computer Room" when it is done. 3 Walls will consist of a large U shaped desk where I can hopefully set up all of my working machines. In the center of the room will be a large "project" table for the machines that are in pieces.
I still get the feeling that I'll run out of space and it will end up looking like a junk yard. :D
Sounds like my room, with what used to be used as a pool table, except I don't have the U shaped desk, only an L shape.
I have not been able to play a game of pool/billiards for many months, as it is covered with computer parts and computers that are partially disassembled.
I am hoping to get things straightened out a little so I can invite a half dozen Amiga users over for a weekend meeting some time before the end of the year.
I was hoping to see some news about the FPGA Replay Board when I saw this thread at the top of the forum list. Sorry Mike, for contributing to the off topic discussion.
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I saw the Genlock thread and came to think of what would be needed to make that possible with the FPGA Replay ;)
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Ah ha! That'd be the 4 bottles of Leffe and 1 pint of Cider effecting my judgement then. Possibly a good time to bow out of further posting before I'm too pissed to spell ;)
Not the 750ml bottles of Leffe I hope! :-)
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Very true...
I could move just a few hours up north and have a pretty nice house for probably less than this small townhouse near Miami i just bought, but I don't think there are many programming jobs. Hard to imagine that it sold in 2007 for over 2X what I paid for it.
Right now Detroit area is very reasonable with property values around the same price of a new mid to high-end configured Apple computer.
I think in general the UK will cost more.
You could buy 100 Mac Pros for the cost of a small townhouse in London.
Then again, you pay off the house and retire outside London, and you've got yourself a nice pile of money to waste on beer. Assuming we're not at 20% unemployment or recovering from the plague.
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You could buy 100 Mac Pros for the cost of a small townhouse in London.
Then again, you pay off the house and retire outside London, and you've got yourself a nice pile of money to waste on beer. Assuming we're not at 20% unemployment or recovering from the plague.
Depends on the spec of the macpro, you might only get a studio flat. If you tick all options on the mac pro then you might stretch to a maisonette.
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The right question to ask is if the sallary in the big city is high enough to offset the higher living cost ..?
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Hmm, well yes ok that was a poorly phrased question on my part. I could have bought a house in Middlesbrough back when I was a student for a out £15,000... wouldn't have been worth it really granted the time since they're still only selling for a out £18,000 whereas my house which is the same size is worth quite a bit more ;)
Difference between Middlesbrough town centre and a nice leafy village in the country I guess ;)
Ok, but question still stands, it's scary how much land in the US costs compared to the UK
Land prices in the UK are scary. That's one of the reasons I'm a Brit living in the USA. :D
I originally bought 10 acres for $5900/acre. Prices vary depending on zoning and whether it is in a flood zone (it amazes me that people buy land to build a house in a flood zone because it is cheaper... and then wonder why they have trouble getting insurance).
So, I bought the land a couple fo years ago, paid it off and then started clearing it to build the house. The plan was to clear an area in the center and leave trees surrounding it for privacy. Well, the land looked flat with the trees on it, but when they cleared the area for the house there was a 5' difference between the rear right-hand corner and the front left hand corner which meant that I would have to truck in tens of thousands of dollars worth of earth to build up the land for the pad. Also, once the slab was laid I was looking at a 7' ramp just to drive up to my garage! So, we kept clearing more and more land going backwards until we go it down to a 1' slope which unfortunately put me 420' back from the road and lost most of my back yard. So, I had to buy another 2 acres behind me.
I bet you could sell your house in Middlesbrough and buy one twice the size over here, furnish it from top to bottom, buy a car each for you and the wife and still have money left over. :)
Let me just mention my computer room again which will house my FPGA Arcade just so that we can say we're on topic. :D
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Sounds like my room, with what used to be used as a pool table, except I don't have the U shaped desk, only an L shape.
I have not been able to play a game of pool/billiards for many months, as it is covered with computer parts and computers that are partially disassembled.
I am hoping to get things straightened out a little so I can invite a half dozen Amiga users over for a weekend meeting some time before the end of the year.
I was hoping to see some news about the FPGA Replay Board when I saw this thread at the top of the forum list. Sorry Mike, for contributing to the off topic discussion.
Fortunately my snooker table is going in a dedicated games room, although a retro-games cabinet would make a nice addition. Defender, Pheonix, Asteroids... drool.
Right now my current room is so cluttered I can't even put out the mouse and kyboard for some of the machines. My FPGA Arcade is burried under some paperwork (and still needs a case)... and an updated core (hint, hint Mike ;) )
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Why does it need an update?
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Why does it need an update?
Because the new core supports some bug fixes and RTG screen modes. Mike just hasn't released it yet because he's been working on it.
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Ie it works but you wish for bugs to go away and new screen modes to appear. But you don't need them :P
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Ie it works but you wish for bugs to go away and new screen modes to appear. But you don't need them :P
LOL. More of less.
I've tested a few games and most work perfectly, but there are a couple that either have some "quirks" or don't work at all. Some of these issues are probably due to errors in either the Minimig core and/or the CPU core. Just like with the Minimig and the Chameleon64, the core itself is always being debugged and updated with new features, so it is always nice to have the latest update.
Also, once you're used to RTG screens then you can't have your Workbench any other way. :D
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Is not having a basement an American thing?
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Is not having a basement an American thing?
In Louisiana it is more of a "swamp" thing. Dig down a couple of feet and you hit fresh water.
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Water proof concrete? ;)
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Water proof concrete? ;)
Low density concrete. It floats. :D
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@Freqmax : there is review of the Replay board : http://obligement.free.fr/articles/replay_fpga_arcade.php
It's in french but you can see there are bugs, specially with AGA software.
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Add iron bars at the bottom ;)
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In Louisiana it is more of a "swamp" thing. Dig down a couple of feet and you hit fresh water.
That's why H P Lovecraft discov..ehmm... invented the Cthulu creatures, like The Deep Ones :D
I don't know a thing about the US geography but I hope you won't build your house on some ancient ruins and become crazy dreaming about creatures that inhabited the earth before mankind!
(And avoid classic mithological names like Derceto, etc)
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Btw, isn't there a few people with access to the source code that can work out these bugs while Mikej deals with his move?
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There are three of us so far working on separate parts of the design.
Once we have a coherent working release (including new boot loader) it will be opened up so more people can help.
/Mike
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Hi :)
Good to hear that the updated core is near completion !
As mentionned before me, like the Minimig when it has been launched, games / apps compatibility needs to be improved, and the replay board's core is more complicated than the Minimig's one.
But, even with the current version (from half 2011), many softwares / games works well !
Things are going pretty good now ;)
Thanks to Mike and Jakub and the 'support team' for this great board ;)
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Great to hear there is lots of progress on the core and the project in total.
Any news on when we can see some screenshots on the daughterboard in beta-action ?
//ES
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Let's get the base board completed fully first.. plz ;)
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I've had the base board for about 1,5 years or so :)
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What will be present on the upcoming daughter board?
I would like to know how much it would cost to add an Amiga floppy drive controller to this board. Its a strange request, I know, but I'm curious. I still need to read/write Amiga floppies.
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I would like to know how much it would cost to add an Amiga floppy drive controller to this board. Its a strange request, I know, but I'm curious. I still need to read/write Amiga floppies.
The Kryoflux USB floppy controller might be just what you're looking for, of course there's the small question of amiga drivers.
http://www.kryoflux.com/
Alternatively it may be possible to connect a floppy drive up to some spare I/O lines and run it through the FPGA.
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The Kryoflux USB floppy controller might be just what you're looking for, of course there's the small question of amiga drivers.
http://www.kryoflux.com/
Alternatively it may be possible to connect a floppy drive up to some spare I/O lines and run it through the FPGA.
I'm interested in the Kryoflux, but it costs $172 CAD$. Great with a PC with USB, but not really an add-on for an FPGA based Amiga.
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I mentioned earlier in this thread that an add-on board with a floppy interface to connect a 3.5 and 5.25" drive would be awesome. SID sockets would also be a bonus (basically a catweasle).
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can the Replay Board read CD images and run as a CD32?
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I think the hugest hurdles are:
* Motorola 68EC020 @ 14 MHz
* AGA graphics
But there is both an 68030-alike CPU- and AGA-core. It's an A1200 more or less. That leaves the CD emulation. But that is likely easier than the existing harddisc emulation.
So it's very likely doable, but I don't think there exist any code for this setup. But reconfiguration of existing code and adding CD-emulation should do it.
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Don't forget the Akiko chip emulation for C2P conversion. Not sure how much software relied on that though.
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can the Replay Board read CD images and run as a CD32?
Well you can try using WHDLoad to run CD32 games.
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Wikipedia says about Akiko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_custom_chips#Akiko):
Akiko allows this conversion to be performed in hardware instead of relying on software conversion which would cause more overhead. The conversion works by writing 32 chunky pixels to Akiko's registers and reading back eight 32-bit words of converted planar data which can then be copied to the display buffer.
Seems not that hard to implement as a HDL-core ..?
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Can I get this AGA core (or even an ECS core) for my own project? What is the copyright/licensing status of these cores?
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Asfaik, it's closed source to this date. But the intention is to release it at a later date when it's more finished (BSD or GPL?).
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Long time no update from the author.. Please? I am dying here!
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:?:
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I was an early adopter of this board, but I'm also worried with the lack of cores for it.
I don't know what to think at this point.
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I was an early adopter of this board, but I'm also worried with the lack of cores for it.
I don't know what to think at this point.
Vaporware? Like NatAmi?
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Vaporware? Like NatAmi?
How can it be vapourware when quite a few of us have working models?
It is a fact that Jakub is working on the daughterboard and I have absolutely no doubt that Mike has the parts for the next release of the boards. One thing I can tell you about Mike is that he is a perfectionist and those boards will not be sent out until he has tested them and updated the new core to his satisfaction. Couple this with the fact that making FPGA Arcades is not his primary job, and you can understand why weeks (and sometimes months) go by without an update.
Hang in there. It isn't Xmas yet. ;)
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@Darrin :
Well done for these exacts explanations ;)
I totally agree with you ;)
Faranheit
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Patience is a virtude one must have.
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How can it be vapourware when quite a few of us have working models?
That hasn't stopped anyone saying it about Natami either :P There's 7 of those at last count.
However I agree, MikeJ has put a huge amount of work into the FPGAArcade and is just doing his fulltime job and being duly diligent in getting this labour of love right.
People don't appreciate how much effort it takes to do something like this when it's just one person doing all aspects of the work.
Andy
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Amen to the above.
I can't even start to describe what I have been through to make the X500 PLUS and that has no electronics inside... :(
Keep up the good work Mike, my board will sit in a shiny black X500 ;)
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Amen to the above.
Keep up the good work Mike, my board will sit in a shiny black X500 ;)
I'm with y'all.... Sometimes it looks like people think it's still the glory days of Commodore, with a staff a full-time engineers instead of a few dedicated enthusiasts working in their spare time. BTW, It's my understanding that most of the cores are supposed to come from the "community" once the board is in wider distribution.
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Thanks for the kind words.
Jakub and I sync'd this week. We have both been kinda busy.
I have just moved flat which has caused chaos, but I have the servers and workstation up and running again, and a place to work.
I talked to the factory this morning, so it is coming together.
Swamped at the moment, but getting there.
/Mike
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"I'm with y'all.... Sometimes it looks like people think it's still the glory days of Commodore, with a staff a full-time engineers instead of a few dedicated enthusiasts working in their spare time. BTW, It's my understanding that most of the cores are supposed to come from the "community" once the board is in wider distribution."
Other people are working on porting code yes, but I will be doing this as well.
I supply a wrapper which gives access to all the IO and then it is quite easy to drop other stuff into that and load it from the SD card.
/Mike
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Other people are working on porting code yes, but I will be doing this as well.
I supply a wrapper which gives access to all the IO and then it is quite easy to drop other stuff into that and load it from the SD card.
/Mike
Great! Looking forward to it when it's ready for the masses. ;-)
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Other people are working on porting code yes, but I will be doing this as well.
I supply a wrapper which gives access to all the IO and then it is quite easy to drop other stuff into that and load it from the SD card.
/Mike
Brilliant, really looking forward to this. Glad you're settling into your new place too.
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I have just moved flat which has caused chaos, but I have the servers and workstation up and running again, and a place to work.
I just moved as well... I know what a nightmare that is....
Keep up the good work!
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I am waiting for the post that accompanies moving flat, one that usually involves getting a Girlfriend, getting married, having a couple of Baby version of said person, and finding said baby version has drooled over all the next batch of PCB's and chewed the components.
LOL.
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I am waiting for the post that accompanies moving flat, one that usually involves getting a Girlfriend, getting married, having a couple of Baby version of said person, and finding said baby version has drooled over all the next batch of PCB's and chewed the components.
LOL.
You'll never have enough money for a FPGA Arcade Minimig 2.0 if you do all that...
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Depend on your profession and circumstances ;)
Thoe the couple-baby-mortage trap is devious..
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Anyone have news of the board?. I emailed mike some time ago, and haven't received a reply.
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?
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?
?
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?
!
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...
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Plz get it.
MikeJ is busy with moving and work. Thus less time to deal with FPGA Replay. When he has more time, he will have more time and then things will happen.
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Just ordered another 100 more FPGAs...
/M
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Xc3s1600 ?
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Im curious as to precisely what we can expect from one of these with a daugtherboard etc the final specs etc
Any ETA on the website update mike?
More info would be nice.
Still im getting one of these in the daddys x500 case+daughterboard.
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Yes Xc3s1600.
I am shipping one for to Daddy for the x500 case.
I am having problems getting enough 68060s of the correct mask set for the daughterboard. I am going to have to screen at the supplier, many of the chips are re-printed.
/Mike
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A lot of us would be more than happy with just the base board. I'll probably want the expansion board when it's ready (not currently fussed about the 060, just the extra ports), but i'd be happier to wait if it meant i got the base board sooner.
It would be shame to see the base board held up further due to focus on the addons. Is there a technical reason why the button hasn't been pushed on mass production yet? Is there a fear that the addon board may require physical updates to the base board?
Sorry if this comes across as impatience, I'm just excited about getting my grubby mitts on one.
If the holdup is now a distribution problem I guess I'm not the only one that would be ok to buy through the path of least resistance (good faith gentleman's agreement with blatant disregard for consumer protection red tape).
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I agree and I've decided to push the base board into production ahead of the daughter board.
The main reason for late shipping is low yield on the 50 production boards I had made in China. I needed to work out what was wrong with these before making more.
There are two concerns.
1 - Backfeed through DVI. This was corrected in the B boards with a special regulator to the DAC. There is still some leakage and I need to make sure the additional load of the daughterboard would not fry anything.
2 - DRAM timing issues. The current core uses fixed timing and this does not work across a large run of devices. The new DRAM controller requires some software config and training, so this got tied up with the complete ARM code rewrite.
The ARM code is now up and running again. It is not universal yet (as in suitable for booting other platforms) but getting there.
I have just ordered most of the components and if my final memory testing goes well this weekend I'll get more boards assembled. Hopefully the 30 or so I have on my bench will also work fine with the new code and can be shipped.
Cheers,
Mike
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Yes Xc3s1600.
I am shipping one for to Daddy for the x500 case.
I am having problems getting enough 68060s of the correct mask set for the daughterboard. I am going to have to screen at the supplier, many of the chips are re-printed.
/Mike
If 68060s are turning into rocking horse poo then I'm sure some of us would be happy with a 68040 on the daughterboard.
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I have no problem getting 68060's at a good price, just not the correct mask set.
I have 20 "fake" ones :(
So, plan is to get a tester down at the disti in shenzhen and screen every device.
I am looking at an adapter board which will fit in the pins of the 68060 daughter board and carry either a 680x0 or a much faster Virtex7 class FPGA running a soft CPU.
Full speed ahead chaps ....
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@mikej
do you know how to identify the correct mask? i think there was a copyback issue that the previous mask were not capable of carrying up properly.
as for softcore in fpga, do you think this can be concurrent to a 060 already? has tg68 been worked on further, since tobias has given up? this is really a sad story this development has practically been killed by natami hype..
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I have no problem getting 68060's at a good price, just not the correct mask set.
I have 20 "fake" ones :(
So, plan is to get a tester down at the disti in shenzhen and screen every device.
I am looking at an adapter board which will fit in the pins of the 68060 daughter board and carry either a 680x0 or a much faster Virtex7 class FPGA running a soft CPU.
Full speed ahead chaps ....
Cheers for the update Mike.
Don't forget to release the new core to us betatesters. ;)
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@mikej
do you know how to identify the correct mask? i think there was a copyback issue that the previous mask were not capable of carrying up properly.
as for softcore in fpga, do you think this can be concurrent to a 060 already? has tg68 been worked on further, since tobias has given up? this is really a sad story this development has practically been killed by natami hype..
We are just reading the product code register which contains mask revision. If you have any data this is not reliable I would love to know about it.
The TG68 is still being developed, I am also running some tests.
I have my own core which is smaller and faster, but I have not had time to work on it for a while. These are both 68020 (lacking MMU and FPU) but can run faster than a 68060.
/Mike
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I'm loving the idea of a stonkingly fast 020 softcore (further down the road at least).
I guess it'd make upgrades easier when new fpgas become available?
Would it be technically possible for this approach to provide more fast ram too (not that I need it)?
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The TG68 is still being developed, I am also running some tests.
I have my own core which is smaller and faster, but I have not had time to work on it for a while. These are both 68020 (lacking MMU and FPU) but can run faster than a 68060.
/Mike
That would be nice!
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I'm loving the idea of a stonkingly fast 020 softcore (further down the road at least).
I guess it'd make upgrades easier when new fpgas become available?
Would it be technically possible for this approach to provide more fast ram too (not that I need it)?
The daughterboard contains extra RAM (128MB IIRC) which will add to what we already have on the main board.
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We are just reading the product code register which contains mask revision. If you have any data this is not reliable I would love to know about it.
no, not that i knew. likely your method is good enough, why shouldnt it work?
The TG68 is still being developed, I am also running some tests.
I have my own core which is smaller and faster, but I have not had time to work on it for a while. These are both 68020 (lacking MMU and FPU) but can run faster than a 68060.
/Mike
good to hear! even though im not in a customer range as long as there is no fpu, even better some sort of mmu.
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@mikej
I think there was a copyback issue that the previous mask were not capable of carrying up properly.
Nothing to do with caches. It's probably a data register forwarding issue/bug that you are thinking of. The store-load bypass needs to be turned off on all full "RC" 68060 masks except 0E41J (Rev 6). This bug is unlikely with properly optimized code. It can only happen when writing a data register to memory as a longword and immediately reading it back. There is an easy solution that doesn't affect performance much. There are 21 known bugs in a 1F43G mask, 20 in a 1G65V mask and 0 in a 0E41J mask. Most of the bugs are minor or have workarounds.
We are just reading the product code register which contains mask revision. If you have any data this is not reliable I would love to know about it.
Product Code Register? You must mean "Processor Control Register". Yes, that's a good way to get the 68060 Revision Number. When the Chinese are sophisticated enough to change the PCR revision number, they might as well make us some new 68060 processors ;).
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A 68EC060 should work fine, shouldn't it? You might be missing the MMU and FPU but you still have the TTR registers to map out cache-inhibited regions and also FPU emulation libraries.
As far as I am aware, the resolution of the TTR registers is 16MB minimum, so the best scenario would be to map the lower 24 bits of address space, including chipram and custom chipset registers as cache-inhibited, serialised access.
Fortunately since the hardware is very flexible we can map all the other nice fast ram outside that range and mark it as fully cached and copyback enabled.
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Didn't 68060 require MMU to be useable for AmigaOS? I seem to recall that there was some requirement for the 68060.library variants to work.
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Asfair, 68060 has builtin MMU so why would it not be available?
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There's 68LC060 without functional FPU and 68EC060 without functional MMU+FPU, that's why.
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I know that the MMU was required on the '040 and '060 to be able to use DMA-based hard drive controllers. I don't know if that even applies to the current Replay board designs. I would think that an SD card adapter would be sufficient even with programmed I/O.
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This is great news!!! It sound like the next board run might be available around christmas and I might be getting myself a christmas present.
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This is great news!!! It sound like the next board run might be available around christmas and I might be getting myself a christmas present.
Will the daddys x500 case be ready by then though as thats what im getting the fpga arcade put in. will it be easy to add the daughterboard later I wonder when its released.
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I've done some searching and reading in this thread, but either I've missed it, or you simply haven't said anything about it :)
What's the goal when it comes to compatibility for this board? 100% with an A1200, 100% A4000, or?
The thing is, I'm involved with the demoscene, and even though the Amiga-percentage of demos are declining, there is still a few who make good stuff for this platform. The biggest problem with such demos is that you need an A1200 with 060 (or A4000 with 060) or a well-configured UAE to even be able to watch them. Getting proper videosignals for capturing for either of these devices are even harder than ... well, it's not easy :) UAE tends to loose sync every now and then aswell..
If this device can give us a proper signal on the DVI-port, capturing it would be easy as pie :)
Don't get me wrong, I've already ordered one, but I keep my fingers crossed for even demo-compatibility :D
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I also was involved with demos on the Atari, and the idea is to be 100%cycle accurate for both cores. A1200 with 020 initially, then overclocked/060 mode.
It will not lose sync as the hardware is very close to the original hardware.
It remains to be seen if we can bend the timing from the original chipset to work with DVI without breaking it - or adding a frame delay which is not ideal. The high-res outputs have customized timing and work well with DVI/HDMI.
/Mike
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It would be awesome if the Replay could set itself as the next standard demo machine.
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What I wouldnt give for a really fast and fully featured m68k processor :)
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I also was involved with demos on the Atari, and the idea is to be 100%cycle accurate for both cores. A1200 with 020 initially, then overclocked/060 mode.
It will not lose sync as the hardware is very close to the original hardware.
It remains to be seen if we can bend the timing from the original chipset to work with DVI without breaking it - or adding a frame delay which is not ideal. The high-res outputs have customized timing and work well with DVI/HDMI.
/Mike
If that is the case, I guess in theory we could have several Amiga cores loaded on the SD card which could be selected at boot time. One that is 100% accurate and another that takes advantage of additional features, but might have a few issues with certain software.
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If that is the case, I guess in theory we could have several Amiga cores loaded on the SD card which could be selected at boot time. One that is 100% accurate and another that takes advantage of additional features, but might have a few issues with certain software.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but adding new instructions and addressing modes to the fpga would not even affect whether the fpga CPU is cycle exact to a previous CPU, provided none of the new functionality is used. It could affect compatibility where the programmer was relying on certain trapping behavior of illegal instructions or addressing modes but that is very rare. Adding the missing 64 bit integer instructions into the 68060 fpga CPU would be just as incompatible but offer a nice speedup. The Amiga rarely needs cycle exact as it relies more on custom chip timing but the Atari is more reliant on CPU timing. I would think a cycle exact 68000 and 68020 would be all that is needed for game consoles, Atari and a few old Amiga games. In my opinion, a cycle exact 68040 or 68060 is wasting time and resources that would be better spent on making a faster fpga CPU. Think of the new demos that could be created rather than the 2% of demos that don't work because they were poorly programmed. New instructions and addressing modes can provide a significant speedup, code density improvements to conserve memory and better use caches and add modern functionality the 68k was missing. With new fpga CPU functionality, we need standard ISAs in order to gain support in compilers and developer tools, gain support among programmers and users and create a common platform among multiple fpga CPUs that would make an ASIC more likely in the future. A little planning now could make a bright future possible.
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Cycle exact 68000 and 68020 should be enough. If one uses a more powerful CPU, the software ought to be aware that not all computer setups are the same..
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hmm this is starting to sound better and better.
Im looking forward to the fpga arcade site being updated with more info about this too. Must fix my miggy 500 too. Might get an a4000 in the future or cd tv.
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If 68060s are turning into rocking horse poo then I'm sure some of us would be happy with a 68040 on the daughterboard.
I already have a 68060/50MHz (RC version with MMU & FPU, IIRC, not XC version), but it is not the last mask revision that can be over-clocked to 100MHz or more and might not be able to run any faster than 60MHz and will require active cooling to do that. I was hoping that MikeJ could find some of the faster 060's that are capable of easily running at 100MHz, or faster, so I could get one of his daughter boards with the 060 installed and working reliably at the 100MHz or faster speed, directly from MikeJ, but if that is not possible, I am happy to get an "Unpopulated" daughter board and install my own 68060 into the socket, and choose which clock crystal to use myself. If I can find one of the now rare "FAST" 68060's at a later date, I will install it into the daughter board and remove my slower 68060.
I just hope that the daughter boards will begin to be released by MikeJ soon, with the extra RAM, USB ports and Ethernet port, all working and ready to go. That is going to be one "Sweet!" small footprint A1200 Amiga, in a Micro ITX case.
I wonder if it will be possible to get a USB wireless NIC supported under AmigaOS3.9 in the near future? I actually bought one that uses the Prism2 chipset, but Neil Cafferkey told me that he has not written USB support for any of his Prism2 drivers, so it is unlikely that my USB Prism2 wireless NIC will ever be supported. I also doubt that MikeJ will ever be adding a PCMCIA slot to the FPGA Arcade Replay board, or it's daughter board to let us use our wireless NIC cards from our A600's, or A1200's.
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Asfair, there's a USB port on FPGA Arcade/Replay and compilers can be found on the internet..
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I know that the MMU was required on the '040 and '060 to be able to use DMA-based hard drive controllers. I don't know if that even applies to the current Replay board designs.
You don't need an MMU, the ATC registers are enough.
There are limitations to this approach and that is that all of Zorro II space has to be set to cache-inhibited serialized.
It's nothing to do with DMA, it's Zorro II IO cards and chipram that causes the problem. If you have nothing in Zorro II space then it's largely irrelevant.
The same thing would happen with the Replay if it used an 060 without an MMU.
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Wow, my last post just goes to show that the world is indeed small. Got a textmessage from an friend back in the "old days", telling me that he actually HAS a board that I can borrow to test stuff with.
Awesome, I just hope the core he has is somewhat more stable than my (now sold) A4000 :)
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The Amiga rarely needs cycle exact as it relies more on custom chip timing but the Atari is more reliant on CPU timing. I would think a cycle exact 68000 and 68020 would be all that is needed for game consoles, Atari and a few old Amiga games. In my opinion, a cycle exact 68040 or 68060 is wasting time and resources that would be better spent on making a faster fpga CPU.
There is very little software that relies on cycle accuracy on the Amiga, because software ralely used delay loops for timing anything. There are however some exceptions. Some demos started the blitter in hog mode and assumed that the CPU wouldn't be able to run until the blitter had finished, this falls down when you are running from instruction caches. Alot of the soundtracker players used a software delay loop for waiting until it was safe to write to some registers. Also some old software relies on 68000 stack frame formats & MOVE SR.
I can see the argument for a 7mhz 68000 profile, but anything other than that should just run as fast as it can. Even a 68020 is a waste.
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I can see the argument for a 7mhz 68000 profile, but anything other than that should just run as fast as it can. Even a 68020 is a waste.
No it is not; demos bang the hardware quite bad.
Try watching TBL-Tint on ANYTING but an A1200 with a 50 MHz 68030. Most likely it will crash and burn (even with the 040/060 patch)
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=701
Most demos nowadays are timed exactly on an A1200 with 50MHz 68060, if you use the Apollo Boards with a 66 MHz, the sync is lost quite often.
So, yes, we NEED proper settings, with cpu-selection and speed-setting to be able to watch the demos as intended
As a minimum:
7.14 MHz 68000
14.28 MHz 68020
50 MHz 68030
50 MHz 68060
66 MHz 68060 (some demos actually rely on this... )
Then again, this is to watch demos.. If all you want is to fire up the good old games, then "stock" settings would probably be enough.
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No it is not; demos bang the hardware quite bad.
Banging the hardware doesn't have to mean incompatible. Frank Wille's SqrxzOCS game port bangs the hardware but works on 68000-68060, OCS-AGA, AmigaOS 1.x-3.x, is hard drive installable and properly exits.
So, yes, we NEED proper settings, with cpu-selection and speed-setting to be able to watch the demos as intended
As a minimum:
7.14 MHz 68000
14.28 MHz 68020
50 MHz 68030
50 MHz 68060
66 MHz 68060 (some demos actually rely on this... )
Then again, this is to watch demos.. If all you want is to fire up the good old games, then "stock" settings would probably be enough.
So we need settings for every possible 68k processor at every possible speed of every possible accelerator with every speed of memory with OCS, ECS, or AGA on an Amiga 500, 600, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000, 3000T, 4000, 4000T, CDTV or CD32 and cycle exact in both CPU and all custom chips so we can watch poorly programmed old demos. Mike might be busy for awhile. We could have new and better demos (as well as apps and games) on a faster and enhanced CPU and custom chips in a fraction of the time. Basic compatibility is good but supporting every poorly written program is ludicrous. We can patch what is important and make videos of troublesome demos.
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Banging the hardware doesn't have to mean incompatible. Frank Wille's SqrxzOCS game port bangs the hardware but works on 68000-68060, OCS-AGA, AmigaOS 1.x-3.x, is hard drive installable and properly exits.
I stand corrected, and need to clarify: "Demos aren't made to work on every hardwarecombination. They are made to work on the programmers computer, and will quite often not work as intended on other combinations"
Yes, democoders are somewhat lazy and in a timesqueeze, they make shortcuts. Just ask the guys behind the MindCandy DVD's (notably: http://www.demodvd.org/blog :)
So we need settings for every possible 68k processor at every possible speed of every possible accelerator with every speed of memory with OCS, ECS, or AGA on an Amiga 500, 600, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000, 3000T, 4000, 4000T, CDTV or CD32 and cycle exact in both CPU and all custom chips so we can watch poorly programmed old demos. Mike might be busy for awhile. We could have new and better demos (as well as apps and games) on a faster and enhanced CPU and custom chips in a fraction of the time. Basic compatibility is good but supporting every poorly written program is ludicrous. We can patch what is important and make videos of troublesome demos.
Not what I said. Most (still, not all) demos will run on either A500, A1200, A1200 with 68030@50MHz, A1200 with 68060@50MHz and A1200 with 68060@60MHz. (all with various ram-configs)
Patching and messing with the demos isn't something that should be done. If the hardware aims to be 100% cycle-exact, then this won't be a problem.
Again, don't get me wrong, cycle-exact is a proper troll to mess with, and I do see the problems. These are all dreams, and if I'm able to watch (and capture) some demos on the ReplayBoard, I'll be a happy camper, and my money will be well spent. Every single demo (and game or other software) that runs is a victory.
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So, yes, we NEED proper settings, with cpu-selection and speed-setting to be able to watch the demos as intended
As a minimum:
7.14 MHz 68000
14.28 MHz 68020
50 MHz 68030
50 MHz 68060
66 MHz 68060 (some demos actually rely on this... )
Then again, this is to watch demos.. If all you want is to fire up the good old games, then "stock" settings would probably be enough.
We shall all look forward to you coding that then ;)
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Anyway, getting back on track...
What's the latest core available for the boards already out? Mine is shipped, but according to the owner, it has a rather old core and is "just a tad unstable".
It might be the latest one publicly available, but .. :)
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All the boards in the field are running the same core, which is quite old now.
I have been holding off pushing out any intermediate versions during the re-write, and the new core addresses most if not all of the stability issues. It may introduce more bugs of course, but these will be quickly squashed ;)
/Mike
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Different CPU speed should be no problem but different CPU cores might be..
Oh and don't forget that the FPGA has the m68k databus by their balls, and thus can do some quite brutal "MMU" ;)
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This is interesting me more and more. Will be fun to play around with this in the daddys case.
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I have been holding off pushing out any intermediate versions during the re-write, and the new core addresses most if not all of the stability issues. It may introduce more bugs of course, but these will be quickly squashed ;)
This is rarely said, especially by me.
Mike, you are an awesome individual, thankyou for all your work :-)
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Different CPU speed should be no problem but different CPU cores might be..
Rough CPU speeds are not a major problem. To even begin to attempt to model every type of accelerator out there however is a huge problem. Not only do you have to simulate the cache of the CPU, but each memory board design has a different ram speed. The problem with cycle exact in this regard is that nobody really has a concept of what it means.
If the demo is really that timing sensitive then you have no chance at all of the Replay board to 100% accurately behave like the machine that each demo was written for, so it's not worth the effort to even try. I'd suggest either getting a video taken from the authors computer, or get them to fix the software.
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I see the following options :
7.14 MHz 68000 (cycle accurate with original CPU and chipset)
14.28 MHz 68020 (")
xxx MHz enhanced 68020 FPGA mode - single cycle as much as possible, cache, ~100MHz
xxx MHz 68060 (>100MHz) or until it blows up.
??
/MikeJ
p.s. I'm in Beijing but I'm told a whole load of chips for Replay production just landed at my place ;)
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Just to add my 2c
I have a real Amiga 1200 with an 060 and even I can't run all 060 demos so I don't see how anyone could expect an FPGA based system to run everything.
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The FPGA is the magic pill ;)
It allows you to phase lock, manipulate bit-by-bit in realtime etc.
I think the big machines to really implement is A500 and A1200 which I suspect are the ones that are most widespread. The rest has to be configure your setup and pray (tm).
And the talk about how hard it is to code for all weird combinations of hardware is just a limitation of the number of willing coders. But with a baseline to work with it's way easier. It's easier to improve a specific chip to do something than to have to create a whole system from scratch as when you do that you have no working startpoint to work from. But rather have to make a theory and try.
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xxx MHz enhanced 68020 FPGA mode - single cycle as much as possible, cache, ~100MHz
xxx MHz 68060 (>100MHz) or until it blows up.
Yee Haw! Now you're talking. Have you worked on or planned for a superscaler core? Will you put 64 bit integer instructions back in the 68060? Do you plan on adding any enhanced instructions or addressing modes? How about an FPU? Some demos use the FPU you know ;).
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Yee Haw! Now you're talking. Have you worked on or planned for a superscaler core? Will you put 64 bit integer instructions back in the 68060? Do you plan on adding any enhanced instructions or addressing modes? How about an FPU? Some demos use the FPU you know ;).
I'm sure these things will come along in good time - especially on the open source cores.
First up though I think we'd all be happy enough with a fast-as-possible '020 compatible core (as that's the easiest thing to create), then the cycle exact 68k (A500) and 68020 (A1200).
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@Hattig
I agree that a stable and debugged 68020 compatible core is the priority but it's much easier to implement what has previously been planned for when programming. That is why I think a standard for 68k enhancements should be worked on now, which I have been doing. It's too late when everyone has conflicting and incompatible enhancements.
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I have been considering experimenting with fpgas, what software would I need to create my own core for the fpgaarcade? Is there a good beginners guide I could use to get started?
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Regarding add-on board. A board with (PLCC/DIP) sockets for Amiga custom chips to run synchronized with the core to debug could be useful for any core coders to straighten out any remaining compatibility.
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I have been considering experimenting with fpgas, what software would I need to create my own core for the fpgaarcade? Is there a good beginners guide I could use to get started?
The FPGA on the fpgaarcade is a Xilinx Spartan 3. You can get Xilinx's design software free from them. Either download it... but have lots of time, it's over 4GB, or get a free DVD, which also takes time. ;-)
XESS - makes some Spartan-based development boards. They have some free tutorials on their web site.
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That is why I think a standard for 68k enhancements should be worked on now, which I have been doing. It's too late when everyone has conflicting and incompatible enhancements.
I actually think there should be no effort put into enhancing the 68k beyond what Motorola did. Potentially a CPU that does everything that an 020 to 060+68882 can do. But I wouldn't care if it's just an 060 that only supported the instructions an 060 did, it doesn't even need to be superscalar if the instruction rate was good enough.
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I actually think there should be no effort put into enhancing the 68k beyond what Motorola did. Potentially a CPU that does everything that an 020 to 060+68882 can do. But I wouldn't care if it's just an 060 that only supported the instructions an 060 did, it doesn't even need to be superscalar if the instruction rate was good enough.
Why? If you are satisfied with a slow retro experience then you can use the 68000 or 68020 cycle exact cores. Motorola did enhance the 68k beyond the 68060 (in some ways) with the ColdFire. Instructions like MVS/MVZ and BYTEREV would have been *very* beneficial on the 68060 and the support can easily be enabled in compilers. A 5-15% speed increase and a 5-15% code reduction should be possible for new code with a negligible difference in speed (parallel fpga use) or compatibility of old code. The only worry is that the core grows too big but a simpler standard could be met that would fit but still provides a nice benefit. If we developed this, it could attract the attention of developers (embedded use) and there is a possibility of a return to a hard chip/ASIC in the future. The 68k has an industry leading ease of use and code density even today. It can be even better and modernized to compete with other modern processors.
If you have any technical knowledge of x86, ARM, PPC, or 68k then you will appreciate some great ideas in this enhanced 68k ISA:
http://www.heywheel.com/matthey/Amiga/68kF_PRM.pdf
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Indeed, m68k is far from dead in embedded. The gnu toolchain and linux kernel gets lots of updates from companies that do commercial embedded solutions using m68k, there are several commercial FPGA implementations of m68k etc. Extending m68k beyond 060 is just great. What is the legal status of the m68k architecture compared to ARM and MIPS?
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The FPGA on the fpgaarcade is a Xilinx Spartan 3. You can get Xilinx's design software free from them. Either download it... but have lots of time, it's over 4GB, or get a free DVD, which also takes time. ;-)
XESS - makes some Spartan-based development boards. They have some free tutorials on their web site.
The WebPack version of ISE is free cost, but you do need to sign up for a license to be able to use it. Just so people aren't confused at the end of install and first run, the free WebPack license is needed at that point.
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XESS - makes some Spartan-based development boards. They have some free tutorials on their web site.
Another provider of FPGA boards is Digilent Inc. (http://www.digilentinc.com). They have also some example projects for the Xilinx FPGA development environment using their boards.
Another one is Terasic (http://www.terasic.com.tw).
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The WebPack version of ISE is free cost, but you do need to sign up for a license to be able to use it. Just so people aren't confused at the end of install and first run, the free WebPack license is needed at that point.
True... I neglected to mention that.
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Another provider of FPGA boards is Digilent Inc. (http://www.digilentinc.com). They have also some example projects for the Xilinx FPGA development environment using their boards.
Another one is Terasic (http://www.terasic.com.tw).
I read that the folk at Elektor magazine will have their own FPGA board soon. From the pic it looks similar to the Xula board from XESS. I bet the minimig core could fit into the Xula2, if there are enough i/o pins... still saving my pennies for the Replay. ;-)
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Indeed, m68k is far from dead in embedded. The gnu toolchain and linux kernel gets lots of updates from companies that do commercial embedded solutions using m68k, there are several commercial FPGA implementations of m68k etc. Extending m68k beyond 060 is just great. What is the legal status of the m68k architecture compared to ARM and MIPS?
This is the classic answer by the Natami creator:
In the Amiga world people get sued out of fun. But in the real world to which Freescale belongs people get sued only for money.
It is only a nice story when Gunnar tells that we had a conversation with the ColdFire/M68k Division Manager of freescale. That we asked him if a custom made MC68060 with higher speed than the classic ones could be available. When he declined we got on asking if we could at least get/license some source HDL code to use in an FPGA. He told us that the MC68060 is built in some kind of HDL source. He regrets but it is absolutely not possible to get/see/license this code for anybody in any form. The only thing he could do is to provide us contacts to companies who sell 68k IP cores. Freescale itself doesn't do this, it is not their business. Then Gunnar asked him what might happen if we wrote our own IP. He said that Freescale will not have a problem with that and that, in his opinion, we do not need any permission from Freescale even if we are about to sell it. But we can not expect any technical help or support from Freescale when we decide to do so.
This is just a story which happened some time ago. We do not need prove or evidence of that. This only (sadly) shows that this is the end of the road for the 68k. The business of this division of Freescale is to sell competitive embedded ColdFire chips, not software. These chips *must* not compete with faster PowerPC which is a different division at Freescale. As said, in the real world they would only sue us for money, not for fun. It would be money if we decide to sell 68k compatible chips running at 600MHz at a price of 1,5$ per piece. Then the discussion here might be justified. But it is not because we won't because we can't.
I just wonder why AMD is still selling x86 compatible CPUs. Ah, right, I forgot. They use a completely different opcode than intel.
Meaning that it might be worth continuing this discussion. Since we AND Freescale are not really involved because both do not have a problem with this topic I would emphasize to discuss whether an opcode is copyrightable or patentable in talk, not as an NatAmi question. For now Freescale does not have any interest in high-speed 68k. The moment this changes we are the first to get a 2GHz 68k dual core and just drop the softcore '50 (sorry Gunnar/Jens) and get the chip mounted onto a SyncZorro card. But immediately.
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In court what says is invalid. What counts is written agreement.
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@freqmax: right, i wouldnt relay on words of some freescale guy except ist written down with signature. but nevetheless i dont think reverse engineering is prohibited. aros mimics amiga api and is legal. softcores may mimic 68k instruction set and be legal. i dont think there is any problem.
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Just to add my 2c
I have a real Amiga 1200 with an 060 and even I can't run all 060 demos so I don't see how anyone could expect an FPGA based system to run everything.
All 060-demos should run on your computer. However, you might need OxyPatcher AND setpatch, and startup with no startup-sequence.
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Basic compatibility is good but supporting every poorly written program is ludicrous. We can patch what is important and make videos of troublesome demos.
Exactly!
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News on the page:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63060
Jason shows Aros on FPGA on Amiwest...
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dozer, darthx, why go through all the effort and make an a1200 clone if it ain't compatible enough to run all sw designed for the a1200?
patching/capping stuff sounds like a very lame approach. not an option if you ask me.
then i would be better off with uae.
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dozer, darthx, why go through all the effort and make an a1200 clone if it ain't compatible enough to run all sw designed for the a1200?
patching/capping stuff sounds like a very lame approach. not an option if you ask me.
then i would be better off with uae.
The fpgaArcade will *attempt* to run all software for a *stock* Amiga 1200 using the cycle exact 68020 CPU core. Asking for full compatibility of a modified Amiga is like heavily modifying a sport car with a souped up engine, turbocharger, NOS, all the bolt-ons, custom body panels and paint job, racing seats, racing gauges, a lowered suspension, and low profile tires and wheels and then going back to the dealer and asking for support when you have a problem. Some of us here are asking for a whole new sports car built to a high spec with an enhanced engine (CPU) and body (custom chips). We know it wouldn't be the same as the old model, but the drive ability and controls would be similar but better :).
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dozer, darthx, why go through all the effort and make an a1200 clone if it ain't compatible enough to run all sw designed for the a1200?
patching/capping stuff sounds like a very lame approach. not an option if you ask me.
then i would be better off with uae.
It will over time run more and more software for the A1200. It's not perfect but rather a work in progress. Otherwise you can always give us those chipmasks for the Amiga chips ;)
The big problem is that existing machines fail more and more. Entropy is a harsh master.
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Ok, this might be a completely moronic and stupid question, but I'll ask anyway :)
I see that more and more people use FPGA-stuff to revive old platforms. Are the cards somewhat compatible, or will complete rewrites be needed?
The thing I'm wondering in particular, is if we can use the Replay Board to run C64-stuff, since that seems to be relatively complete right now
http://www.syntiac.com/chameleon.html
So, will I need to buy the Chameleon to do C64-stuff, or will the Replay Board support the same cores? (most likely, there will have to be a few changes, but that should be feasible I hope)
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Ok, this might be a completely moronic and stupid question, but I'll ask anyway :)
I see that more and more people use FPGA-stuff to revive old platforms. Are the cards somewhat compatible, or will complete rewrites be needed?
The thing I'm wondering in particular, is if we can use the Replay Board to run C64-stuff, since that seems to be relatively complete right now
http://www.syntiac.com/chameleon.html
So, will I need to buy the Chameleon to do C64-stuff, or will the Replay Board support the same cores? (most likely, there will have to be a few changes, but that should be feasible I hope)
Someone will have to port a C64 FPGA implementation to the FPGA Arcade, but once that's done, it should work fine. That's one of Mike's design aims, and he wants it to be easy to create new cores to recreate other systems besides the Amiga and various arcade games.
I expect that all systems up to and including fast expanded A1200s and Atari Falcons will be reimplementable on the FPGA Arcade. Maybe even the 3DO.
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The fpgaArcade will *attempt* to run all software for a *stock* Amiga 1200 using the cycle exact 68020 CPU core.
What Amiga 1200 software will only run properly using a cycle exact 14mhz 68EC020?
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Someone will have to port a C64 FPGA implementation to the FPGA Arcade, but once that's done, it should work fine. That's one of Mike's design aims, and he wants it to be easy to create new cores to recreate other systems besides the Amiga and various arcade games.
I expect that all systems up to and including fast expanded A1200s and Atari Falcons will be reimplementable on the FPGA Arcade. Maybe even the 3DO.
Fantastic :)
Someone should really make a page with some generic info on the fpga; since most of the really good info is buried way deep in this thread, and probably a few other places aswell.
.. Or even a Wiki, with a few test-setups, howto's and so on. Does this exist already, or is it something that will have to be done? (and, is an outsider like me welcome to set this up, or should it be done by the devteam when they have the time?)
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I see the following options :
7.14 MHz 68000 (cycle accurate with original CPU and chipset)
14.28 MHz 68020 (")
xxx MHz enhanced 68020 FPGA mode - single cycle as much as possible, cache, ~100MHz
xxx MHz 68060 (>100MHz) or until it blows up.
??
/MikeJ
p.s. I'm in Beijing but I'm told a whole load of chips for Replay production just landed at my place ;)
FPGA chips, or are the chips that just arrived 68060 chips for the daughter boards?
I need to find me one of those last revision 68060 chips that is capable of being pushed up to and some times beyond 100MHz, because the only spare 68060 chip I have is only capable of 50MHz to 60MHz.
I hope a new firmware file is available soon that will allow us all to run AROS 68k on our FPGA Arcade Replay boards. Any news regarding a firmware update MikeJ?
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What Amiga 1200 software will only run properly using a cycle exact 14mhz 68EC020?
Probably not much. The 14MHz speed would slow some games down to a playable speed but I expect the following would matter more:
1) Caches the same as the 68020
2) VBR in original location
3) No fast memory
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Fantastic :)
Someone should really make a page with some generic info on the fpga; since most of the really good info is buried way deep in this thread, and probably a few other places aswell.
.. Or even a Wiki, with a few test-setups, howto's and so on. Does this exist already, or is it something that will have to be done? (and, is an outsider like me welcome to set this up, or should it be done by the devteam when they have the time?)
I think a Wiki would be a really nice feature to be added to Amiga.org actually. It wouldn't be the first time a forum website has added a wiki-based information base.
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I see that more and more people use FPGA-stuff to revive old platforms. Are the cards somewhat compatible, or will complete rewrites be needed?
Provided the number of gates (CLBs etc) that the soft-core requires is less than the available on the particular FPGA it's essentially just a matter of declaring which I/O to use and then route those correctly. A few hours work perhaps. So it's in essence just a reconfiguration issue.
However you need the HDL-sources to be able to "recompile" or synthesize as it's called. HDL-sources will survive time, platforms will not.
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Probably not much. The 14MHz speed would slow some games down to a playable speed but I expect the following would matter more:
1) Caches the same as the 68020
2) VBR in original location
3) No fast memory
There are really games on the Amiga that run too quick if you have an EC020 faster than 14mhz? I thought everything was tied to the vertical blank, so the speed only changes depending on whether you're running in 50hz or 60hz.
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There are really games on the Amiga that run too quick if you have an EC020 faster than 14mhz? I thought everything was tied to the vertical blank, so the speed only changes depending on whether you're running in 50hz or 60hz.
Yes, there are Amiga games that run much too fast although most are old games for the 68000 and early AmigaOS. Sometimes timing problems are because of bugs like failing to call graphics.library WaitBlit correctly.
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Now, I know it's a one man project (with some help from other core developers), but I'm socked to see we're in the same place we were more than a year ago: no way to buy the board (I have mine, but I mean mass production) and outdated core with a lot of compatibility problems.
I'm starting to fear this isn't going anywhere. It seems to be the same with most FPGA implementations, and it's sad because it's the best alternative for Amiga hardware nowadays: no aging hardware and classic amiga compatibility.
So far:
-Natami never got past some prototype boards distributed among the developers. Supposedly cancelled or in an undetermined suspension state. Used TG68 softcore.
-MCC-216: Can be bought, but it's a scam, using outdated Minimig core with it's sources closed. It's compatible with something near 40% of Amiga 500-era software. Materials are awfull and aesthetically it's horrible. Avoidable device at all cost. It's developers have been promising a closed-source 68K implementation to make it more compatible, since...2010. Yeah. It's sure to happen next century.
-Turbo Chameleon64: has a good Minimig port, thanks to the efforts of MMrobinsonb5, but it's still having a lot of compatibility issues due to the TG68 implementation.
-The original Minimig 1.1 board, designed by Dennis van Weeren and mass-produced by Acube Systems, is the best Amiga I ever had, even if it's limited in so many ways as having "only" 4MB of RAM. Real 68K on-board guarantees an almost perfect compatibility rate. Clear winner here, thanks again to the extra work by Yaqube, Boing4000 and MMrobinsonb5 towards a perfect custom chipset implementation.
Now, if we analyze the situation, I'd say the main problem here (and what must have caused the hiatus in development of FPGA Amigas) seems to be the 68K implementation. TG68, even if it seems to be a good open source alternative, seems to prevent further compatibility improvements in the systems that use it. I believe it's not developed any longer because it's creator, Tobiflexx, is currently enjoying more important matters in real life :)
So, if I'm right, we're not seeing any new, more compatible core on the FPGA Arcade in a long time. Could developers please confirm this? There's nothing wrong with it: I can't start to imagine how complex a 68K softcore implementation must be!
thanks
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-MCC-216: Can be bought, but it's a scam, using outdated Minimig core with it's sources closed. It's compatible with something near 40% of Amiga 500-era software. Materials are awfull and aesthetically it's horrible. Avoidable device at all cost. It's developers have been promising a closed-source 68K implementation to make it more compatible, since...2010. Yeah. It's sure to happen next century.
This explains why I don't see any reviews of it. I wasn't even sure that it was an actual product despite seeing it advertised.
-Turbo Chameleon64: has a good Minimig port, thanks to the efforts of MMrobinsonb5, but it's still having a lot of compatibility issues due to the TG68 implementation.
I hope we'll see it able to access the joystick ports of the C64 host as some point. I don't have the extender board and I don't want to keep unplugging it from the back of my C64C. I use the IR CDTV remote control as a joystick.
-The original Minimig 1.1 board, designed by Dennis van Weeren and mass-produced by Acube Systems, is the best Amiga I ever had, even if it's limited in so many ways as having "only" 4MB of RAM. Real 68K on-board guarantees an almost perfect compatibility rate. Clear winner here, thanks again to the extra work by Yaqube, Boing4000 and MMrobinsonb5 towards a perfect custom chipset implementation.
As an OCS/ECS gaming machine it is fantastic and the turbo charged real processor does zip along nicely.
If the soft CPU is going to be an issue for the FPGA Arcade then pehaps a basic expansion board just containing a real 68020/68030 CPU might be a better solution for gamers who do not want the full 68060 daughterboard with all of the bells and whistles.
It will be interesting to see how the new core performs when it is released.
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-The original Minimig 1.1 board, designed by Dennis van Weeren and mass-produced by Acube Systems, is the best Amiga I ever had, even if it's limited in so many ways as having "only" 4MB of RAM. Real 68K on-board guarantees an almost perfect compatibility rate. Clear winner here, thanks again to the extra work by Yaqube, Boing4000 and MMrobinsonb5 towards a perfect custom chipset implementation.
I know when I got my 4MB Minimig 1.1 it was not so great..
I found only about 50% of the .ADFs worked, the filesystem was limited to FAT16 and 8 character file names, there was no HDF support. With the addition of the ARM controller and updates it progressed into the impressive little machine that it is today...
Just saying that the 1.1 was not that great for the first few years either.
...
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What has X client/server to do with this??
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So, if I'm right, we're not seeing any new, more compatible core on the FPGA Arcade in a long time. Could developers please confirm this? There's nothing wrong with it: I can't start to imagine how complex a 68K softcore implementation must be!
Hi,
Sorry for the late response, I have been travelling. In fact, I have just left the factory where more boards are being made. Yes, it is taking much longer than I wanted - I have been a little busy with some other work projects sadly.
This design is FCC/CE certified. It is produced in a factory where they can knock them out by the 10,000. The firmware is relatively stable and a new release is imminent.
Several other cores are already running on the board. As I do not take pre-orders and am using my own cash to fund this, I need to do it as/when I can afford. I need to be 100% sure there are no problems with the board before I make a large number hence the staggered beta program.
The CPU core is not a big issue, I can fix the remaining issues with it quite quickly. I also have my own 68K core which is moving along slowly.
/Mike
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Yes, there are Amiga games that run much too fast although most are old games for the 68000 and early AmigaOS. Sometimes timing problems are because of bugs like failing to call graphics.library WaitBlit correctly.
I know about the problems some 68000 games had. That is why having a cycle accurate 68000 is useful.
My question was related to games that run fine on an a1200, but would fail if the instructions per second was higher (whether that's due to higher clock speed or more efficient instructions).
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There are really games on the Amiga that run too quick if you have an EC020 faster than 14mhz? I thought everything was tied to the vertical blank, so the speed only changes depending on whether you're running in 50hz or 60hz.
All properly coded games are tied to the vertical blank. Not just on Amiga but all other systems too.
Any game that fails to run on a faster CPU has a tragically awful bug.
If a game uses software timing loops then there is no way for us to fix that at the hardware level. You would need to disassemble the buggy code and fix it. a zillion hours of work for each game. Yuck.
If a game forgets to call WaitBlit() then there is no way for us to fix that at the hardware level. You would need to disassemble the buggy code and fix it. a zillion hours of work for each game. Yuck.
I actually committed the above bug once. It was just purely by accident that it happened during a code rewrite. But a playtester reported it to me and I declared an emergency and fixed it immediately. So the public never saw the bug.
If a game bangs on hardware registers too quickly on fast CPUs then... AHA!
There is a sneaky way to fix that. Just make the Amiga's hardware registers respond faster and then everything will work great!
This banging regs to fast problem happens a lot when banging Paula. It isn't like its intuitive to know that you hafta wait a certain amount of time between pokes. Its a really annoying problem.
It has plagued the Amiga continuously since the beginning of time.
I remember when the 030 first came out, various modplayers would not work right anymore. We had to wait for updated versions.
I remember when the 040 first came out, various modplayers would not work right anymore. We had to wait for updated versions.
I remember when the 060 first came out, various modplayers would not work right anymore. We had to wait for updated versions.
So anyway whoever is working on the Paula softcore, all you hafta do is rig it so that code will work, even if the code "pokes to fast".
If you can implement that then dozens of programs will suddenly start working on faster systems.
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Several other cores are already running on the board.
/Mike
Mike, we try not to pester but can you please tell us what other cores are running (and presumably will become available when the board goes properly into production)? I know I'd love an ST core as well as the Amiga one but more cores make the board of more use.
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@MikeJ
Is the FPGA chip in the FPGA Replay fast enough to generate a 1280x1024x32bit @ 60fps display?
Does it already do that?
Or is it something you could try to squeeze in with some hardcore optimized code magic?
Such a mode would burn 314MB per second of bandwidth just to show the display.
What is the theoretical maximum bandwidth of your memory chips?
How much actual bandwidth are you actually able to get out of the system so far?
I realize that the "theoretical maximum" and the "real life attainable" numbers will be wildly different, as they are with Natami. :)
I am asking these questions because I want to write a game that maxes out your hardware. And I think that I will be stuck using 640x512x32-bit mode.
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Why 32 bit ? Isn't 24 more than enough ?
Just curious... I don't plan on going above 16 bit with my petty programming :D
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Why 32 bit ? Isn't 24 more than enough ?
Just curious... I don't plan on going above 16 bit with my petty programming :D
Visually 24 is just as good as 32 since they are the exact same thing visually.
But the cpu processes 32-bits much more easily than 24. Sometimes some gfx need to be drawn by the cpu (calculated fx).
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I'm all for an ST core, too. Ahh.. taking my long-waiting FPGA board and have some ST fun while the stable Amiga AGA core is released would be great! Well, if it's Atari 8 bit stuff and it runs Alternate Reality, I won't be complaining either ... :D
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Is the FPGA chip in the FPGA Replay fast enough to generate a 1280x1024x32bit @ 60fps display?
Yes, the FPGA is capable of it. Moreover the memory bandwidth is more than enough to display such resolution.
Does it already do that?
Currently Minimig AGA core with RTG module (Picasso96 compatible drivers are available) can display resolutions up to 1920x1080 but only in 8-bit colour depth. Maximum resolution in 32-bit mode is 800x600.
Or is it something you could try to squeeze in with some hardcore optimized code magic?
There are plans to improve memory controller to allow more bandwidth and more colours in higher resolutions - current limitation is a consequence of original Amiga Chip RAM design (the RTG module fetches its display data from Chip RAM).
What is the theoretical maximum bandwidth of your memory chips?
166MHz x 2 x 16 bits = 666MB/s
How much actual bandwidth are you actually able to get out of the system so far?
My design has two independent logical memory channels to SDRAM each capable of 113 MB/s. One channel is used by the custom chips, CPU, AHI DMA sound channels and RTG board blitter. The second channel is dedicated to memory refresh and RTG display.
I am asking these questions because I want to write a game that maxes out your hardware. And I think that I will be stuck using 640x512x32-bit mode.
Such resolution is problematic with VGA monitors. But my RTG module supports scan doubling to upscale 640x512 to 1280x1024 which is SXGA native resolution.
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Such resolution is problematic with VGA monitors. But my RTG module supports scan doubling to upscale 640x512 to 1280x1024 which is SXGA native resolution.
I have displayed 640x512 @50 hz on many CRT monitors. I donno if those same monitors will display it @60 hz but I just assume they will. :)
I would prefer 640x512 @60 hz but Classic Amigas won't do that unless you add a pc gfx card.
I could, for a lot of additional work, laboriously go thru and chop off 32 pixels from all the GUI screens and all the game levels. in order lower the game resolution to 640x480. Would there be any advantages to making the game run in 640x480 instead of 640x512?
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Why would you have to cut anything from the levels? Does your game not have vertical scrolling?
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What has X client/server to do with this??
i guess nothing. i'll edit and remove.
i was just trying to point out that progress on this project is not out of line with similar or even larger projects.
thanks for keeping me on topic.
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Visually 24 is just as good as 32 since they are the exact same thing visually.
But the cpu processes 32-bits much more easily than 24. Sometimes some gfx need to be drawn by the cpu (calculated fx).
Well I'll be damned :) I always thought going 24 bit would actually save some CPU resources. So it's either 16 or straight to 32 :)
This is gonna be awesome :)
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16-bits is actually quite ok.
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I am running PAL/NTSC broadcast spec on the output for testing - not in the Amiga core yet.
This would give you 720x488/60 (interlaced) or 720x576/50(interlaced).
The horizontal visible is maybe 700 so 640 x 512 is probably ok.
I also run 576P50 which is 720x576/50 on each field, which looks great. Any modern TV takes this over DVI/HDMI.
/Mike
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I am running PAL/NTSC broadcast spec on the output for testing - not in the Amiga core yet.
This would give you 720x488/60 (interlaced) or 720x576/50(interlaced).
The horizontal visible is maybe 700 so 640 x 512 is probably ok.
I also run 576P50 which is 720x576/50 on each field, which looks great. Any modern TV takes this over DVI/HDMI.
/Mike
There are a lot of old games which run in 640x512. Will they be 100% correctly viewable on the Replay board when connected to a modern TV over DVI/HDMI?
I am not really clear if they will display right or if they would appear in the upperleft corner of the display and have the top and left flow off the screen in an incredibly annoying manner. (Just like I have seen a ton of million$ PC gamez do when connected to my modern HDMI TV).
Good luck, keep up the good work. I am planning to use every single byte of RAM on the Replay + 060 board.
-
There are a lot of old games which run in 640x512. Will they be 100% correctly viewable on the Replay board when connected to a modern TV over DVI/HDMI?
I am not really clear if they will display right or if they would appear in the upperleft corner of the display and have the top and left flow off the screen in an incredibly annoying manner. (Just like I have seen a ton of million$ PC gamez do when connected to my modern HDMI TV).
Good luck, keep up the good work. I am planning to use every single byte of RAM on the Replay + 060 board.
What type of game are you thinking of making if you don't mind me asking?
-
@Wrath of Khan
I'd imagine a turns-based strategy game called "Total Chaos".
-
I am not really clear if they will display right or if they would appear in the upperleft corner of the display and have the top and left flow off the screen in an incredibly annoying manner. (Just like I have seen a ton of million$ PC gamez do when connected to my modern HDMI TV).
Most amiga games run at 320x200 for NTSC & 320x256 for PAL, so it would be even worse if the replay worked like this. So no it won't be squished into a corner.
It sounds like your PC/TV aren't configured properly. The video driver on your PC will usually have an option to stretch the display to fill the monitor, if the output resolution is fixed to 1080p. My TV also has a perfect scan option available on HDMI, when this is activated it displays the overscan areas so that nothing is lost into the borders. If your TV doesn't, then you might have to configure the PC to output some dummy borders for your TV to ignore.
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I am running PAL/NTSC broadcast spec on the output for testing - not in the Amiga core yet.
This would give you 720x488/60 (interlaced) or 720x576/50(interlaced).
The horizontal visible is maybe 700 so 640 x 512 is probably ok.
I also run 576P50 which is 720x576/50 on each field, which looks great. Any modern TV takes this over DVI/HDMI.
/Mike
Hey Mike,
if you're reading this, it seems like your email account is bouncing... tried both freeuk.com and the address on the website...
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^^^^^^Id guess so as I never got any responses from 2 0r 3 e-mails that I sent.
Its possible many e-mails have not reached him judging by the amount of people that have posted about it.
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worrying.
mikej[AT]freeuk[DOT]com is working - getting a lot of spam on that account though.
support[AT]fpgaarcade[DOT]com is also working.
What address did you use?
/Mike
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worrying.
mikej[AT]freeuk[DOT]com is working - getting a lot of spam on that account though.
support[AT]fpgaarcade[DOT]com is also working.
What address did you use?
/Mike
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To: MikeJ
Subject: Top secret
*****
And the second attempt with the same error message and slightly different route:
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EDIT: Obscured email addresses with *AT*
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support[AT]fpgaarcade[DOT]com is the one i used. It was months ago though. Loriano(the daddy) has said he should be able to provide me with an fpga arcade already fitted inside the x500 case as I would have difficulty doing such an operation myself.
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@Platon42
Looks like you're the one with the email issue. Check your SPF record.
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@Platon42
Did you change ISPs at some point in the past but did not update the config in your Email software?
If you are a subscriber of ISP B but still trying to use ISP A email server then they could block you.
Just an idea.
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@Platon42
Looks like you're the one with the email issue. Check your SPF record.
Received-SPF: pass (mx-c: domain of chrisly*AT*platon42.de designates 87.230.87.142 as permitted sender)
Looks good to me. And it's nothing I changed over the last couple of years. And it's my first bounce in the last 20 months or so... if the SPF record is broken, I would have assumed a LOT more bounces.
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@Platon42
Did you change ISPs at some point in the past but did not update the config in your Email software?
If you are a subscriber of ISP B but still trying to use ISP A email server then they could block you.
Just an idea.
I'm using my own server to relay mails -- 's got nothing to do with ISPs... But thanks for the suggestions...
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@Mike: Hi Mike -- been away from this board for a few months. Just wondering if there is a releasedate for the beta of the daughterboards yet ?
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What's the current ETA for this project? Can I get an FPGA board already?
-
I'm using my own server to relay mails -- 's got nothing to do with ISPs... But thanks for the suggestions...
I stopped running my own mail relay when all the servers I needed to send to started blocking me.
They use various algorithms, from allowed/banned ip address ranges to grey lists that are built up by rejecting emails and then waiting for the message to be resent properly.
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What's the current ETA for this project? Can I get an FPGA board already?
Daughterboard is pretty complete and ready to be made, but it is on hold until the main board is in production.
I have the FPGAs and some other parts for another 100 boards.
The new firmware is running and finally this gives me the config options/ test I need for the DRAM controller. I am hoping the remaining 20 boards I have which have memory issues will be fine with the new firmware.
I am working full time for the next two weeks on this to get it done!
/MikeJ
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What's up with the DRAM controller?
Is the FPGA wired differently on the newer boards such that cores can't binary used anywhere?
-
no, just static input delay is not good enough for normal device variation.
New core solves the problem on all boards.
-
Daughterboard is pretty complete and ready to be made, but it is on hold until the main board is in production.
I have the FPGAs and some other parts for another 100 boards.
The new firmware is running and finally this gives me the config options/ test I need for the DRAM controller. I am hoping the remaining 20 boards I have which have memory issues will be fine with the new firmware.
I am working full time for the next two weeks on this to get it done!
/MikeJ
Sounds great, Mike. Just out of curiousity -- how do you manage to keep a steady income when you work so much on the replay board ? Have you started to make money from the replay already or are you a killer multitasker betweek day-job and night-job (replay) ? ;-)
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Sounds great, Mike. Just out of curiousity -- how do you manage to keep a steady income when you work so much on the replay board ? Have you started to make money from the replay already or are you a killer multitasker betweek day-job and night-job (replay) ? ;-)
I work full time, but as I travel so much I don't need to be in the office all the time.
Normally I can only spend an hour or two per day on these projects :(
The Replay is sold at around cost so it won't make any money. If I had to run this as a business and pay for engineering time it would not be cost affective - we do this because it is fun.
/Mike
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I want one under my x-mas tree! :D
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Buy some components, Learn electronics, Learn CAD, place PCB order, play with synthesis and C-code, Cool-card-under-green-tree! ;)
(I think the hard part is signal integrity and DDR-RAM interfacing and the expense of multilayer board with BGA)
-
As far as I heard (I'm total electronics dummy) assembling with BGA tech in home-environment is pretty hard to accomplish it well.. :)
-
Having hand built the first 8 of these (BGA was assembled by a rework house) even the other SMD components are not fun. There's something like 100+ caps etc.
In other news, apparently several thousand USD worth of Xilinx devices have arrived at the factory, which is a bit of a relief.
/MikeJ
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Hi Mike, I can see that I've got an email from youself on 11th of October 2011 saying that I'm on the list, any chance that I've moved a little bit forward? :)
-
Yikes! I was also put in preorder queue in October.. 2012.. :-) I guess it will be longer waiting, but hopefully worth it. :-)
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There will be enough for everybody very soon.
/MikeJ
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Hell, I didn't even get an email back when I showed interest a few years ago with cash in hand :)
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There will be enough for everybody very soon.
/MikeJ
Good news, thank you! :-)
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Excellent news, looking forward to this :-D
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Hell, I didn't even get an email back when I showed interest a few years ago with cash in hand :)
Sorry about that, I thought I had replied to everybody.
Best,
/MikeJ
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If we didn't get a reply does that mean we aren't on the list? I sent my mail on 15/05/2011. I guess you must get a LOT of mail
-
I emailed and never got a reply, I also wrote in this thread that i want .. Ahem NEED one!
Please put me on the list! Cheers!
-
There will be enough for everybody very soon.
/MikeJ
<3!!!!
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Hehe, no worries Mike - just deliberately giving you the gears.
Mainly interested in the full meal deal anyways with the daughterboard, since I want to use it to run my Amiga powered BBS and I need Ethernet.
-
Sorry about that, I thought I had replied to everybody.
Best,
/MikeJ
Uhm... I'll take that board offered way back when now :-)
-
I've just finished the layout for a PS/2 to USB converter.
This sits on the pads of the PS/2 connector on the main board and replaces the two PS2 ports with an external USBA port and an internal USB header. There is a small on board micro (VNC2) which handles the two USB ports and communicates over the same four FPGA pins the PS/2 connector used to use - but SPI this time.
This gives a low latency keyboard and mouse input.
This board can be fitted to any RevB board - I'll post some pictures soon.
I need to write the code first and make sure it works (I have an eval board to play with).
/MikeJ
-
Good stuff mike. i will be having one of these babys in the daddys lovely x500 cases. roll on daughterboard.
-
Is it possible to use an A4000 keyboard plugged into the PS2 socket?
-
Uhm... I'll take that board offered way back when now :-)
It would be great to have you developing for the FPGA Arcade, especially if it is using Poseidon.
-
Does this mean I have to throw away my PS/2 ports to get USB? :huh:
PS/2 is way better. No way am I getting rid of them. All my stuff is PS/2 and PS/2 is better for mouse and keyboard (which are required). USB is only better for nonrequired type things like my external 2TB drives and cameras and mp3 players and things.
Anyway I would rather have both PS/2 and USB.
Sorry for ranting :)
Are the PS/2 ports real PS/2 ports? Like the ones on my Core i5 box?
I was once upon a time 100% going to buy one (once the 060 card came out and was verified working correctly) but I am currently at 93% chance.
@Platon42
Does this mean FPGA Arcade will gain some superduper awesome USB support in the near future? :hammer:
-
Uhm... I'll take that board offered way back when now :-)
Hi Chris,
So you survived the traveling then? You didn't pop by Stockholm!
I do indeed owe you a board, ping me a mail.
Cheers,
Mike
-
Does this mean I have to throw away my PS/2 ports to get USB? :huh:
PS/2 is way better. No way am I getting rid of them. All my stuff is PS/2 and PS/2 is better for mouse and keyboard (which are required). USB is only better for nonrequired type things like my external 2TB drives and cameras and mp3 players and things.
Anyway I would rather have both PS/2 and USB.
Ae the PS/2 ports real PS/2 ports? Like the ones on my Core i5 box?
@Platon42
Does this mean FPGA Arcade will gain some superduper awesome USB support in the near future? :hammer:
Hi.
No problem, let me explain.
I prefer PS/2 for mouse/keyboard and this is the default build option.
For people who want to put it in the case, or want USB mouse/keyboard this is an option to replace the PS/2 with USB.
These USB ports are directly controlled by the FPGA and appear as native Amiga mouse + keyboard.
The daughterboard has a real USB chip and already works with the Poseidon stack.
So you can choose...
Note, the main board also has two 9 pin inputs which accept real amiga/atari mice as well as joysticks.
/MikeJ
-
Maybe one could add something to the verilog code to handle the DB9 atari style ports as PS/2 ones with a suitable connector adapter?
-
Is it possible to use an A4000 keyboard plugged into the PS2 socket?
^ This. Or any kind of big box Amiga keyboards via some adepter.
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@mikej: Hum... sorry to keep asking but, wasn't a new core supposed to be released by now?
What's holding it back? I'm not in a hurry or anything, but I thought it was imminent two weeks ago.
Just out of curiosity, I'd like to read about the technical difficulties you may be finding.
-
@mikej: Hum... sorry to keep asking but, wasn't a new core supposed to be released by now?
What's holding it back? I'm not in a hurry or anything, but I thought it was imminent two weeks ago.
Just out of curiosity, I'd like to read about the technical difficulties you may be finding.
No technical problems. I wanted to make sure I had a viable USB solution before building new boards. Changing the main PCB and assembly would be expensive at this stage. It's taken a little while to get the USB CPU up and running and design the PCB.
/MikeJ
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What's holding it back? I'm not in a hurry or anything, but I thought it was imminent two weeks ago.
In Amiga terms, "imminent" can mean up to two YEARS. :D
-
That's right! You should be grateful that nobody said 'in two weeks'! ;-]
-
I am hoping the remaining 20 boards I have which have memory issues will be fine with the new firmware.
I am working full time for the next two weeks on this to get it done!
/MikeJ
@Kokos: Oh boy.... :D
@MikeJ: this "two weeks" has become an Amiga joke, don't take my quote seriously! :P
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@Kokos: Oh boy.... :D
LOL, I didn't notice that. :-) We're screwed.. ;]
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^ This. Or any kind of big box Amiga keyboards via some adepter.
I don't see any reason why the FPGA code could not be adapted - actually it's a tiny soft-core microcontroller doing the hard work.
If you use a PS2 to din adapter for the Amiga keyboards, are the clock/data pins in the same place? If so, we can do it.
/Mike
-
If you use a PS2 to din adapter for the Amiga keyboards, are the clock/data pins in the same place? If so, we can do it.
The A4000 keyboard pinout, A3000/A2000 keyboard with adapter and PS/2 keyboard pinout are identical. Data on pin 1, clock on pin 5.
I presume only the protocol is different.
-
The A4000 keyboard pinout, A3000/A2000 keyboard with adapter and PS/2 keyboard pinout are identical. Data on pin 1, clock on pin 5.
I presume only the protocol is different.
Thanks Alex.
Should be easy then. I'll ask around the Amiga users here in Stockholm and see if I can borrow one to play with.
/MikeJ
-
All I know is I have an external keyboard adapter in my A1200T and I can plug in a real PS/2 keyboard or real A2000 keyboard with adapter and it just works(tm). I think I used my A4000 keyboard on it for a while too, many years ago.
Maybe all that is some sort of clue.
> What is the name of your adapter?
If I knew that don't u think I would have told u? :D
-
I'd rather have Megadrive controllers work as a CD32 gamepads, but it's good to have options.
Maybe one could add something to the verilog code to handle the DB9 atari style ports as PS/2 ones with a suitable connector adapter?
-
no, just static input delay is not good enough for normal device variation.
What kind of input delay do you mean?
I'd rather have Megadrive controllers work as a CD32 gamepads, but it's good to have options.
What makes it impossible to have both possibilities using the same hardware ?
-
Different connectors?
-
Different connectors?
Both are DB9 and the wiring doesn't really matter when you can so easily replace the controller.
-
@Kokos: Oh boy.... :D
@MikeJ: this "two weeks" has become an Amiga joke, don't take my quote seriously! :P
You bastards... every time someone says "Two weeks" my brain goes into an Arnie TOTAL RECALL bootloop for an hour or so.... Now you set me off again!!
-
All I know is I have an external keyboard adapter in my A1200T and I can plug in a real PS/2 keyboard or real A2000 keyboard with adapter and it just works(tm). I think I used my A4000 keyboard on it for a while too, many years ago.
You've got a Lyra or other such hardware adapter.
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=228
Should be possible to implement the same detect logic inside the FPGA Replay Board. It is probably uber simple.
-
Plug and PRAY! ;)
Plz, add some option to force the setting.
-
MikeJ can I ask you where am I in the queue please :) - I have been in it for more than a year I think. Name is "Conrad F." (nostromo/everblue) - have tried sending you email and private message but didn't get a reply. Thanks!
-
I want in as well :)
No need to keep upgrading the old amigas when the FPGAArcade can be bought.
-
Just to clarify: my keyboard adapter is not external. It sits inside my A1200T doing its job. I have never actually seen it or know what it is but I prob have the docs for it in a box somewhere.
I just meant the adapter lets me use an external keyboard instead of the silly A1200 one. :)
-
MikeJ can I ask you where am I in the queue please :) - I have been in it for more than a year I think. Name is "Conrad F." (nostromo/everblue) - have tried sending you email and private message but didn't get a reply. Thanks!
Hi,
I don't often check the PMs but I do respond to all email.
There was a bit of a forwarding problem recently.
There's a couple of you here on Amiga.org who mail me regularly. I am hoping to get the current stock out to you guys shortly. Please keep being patient!
More are on the way.
/MikeJ
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Hi,
I don't often check the PMs but I do respond to all email.
There was a bit of a forwarding problem recently.
There's a couple of you here on Amiga.org who mail me regularly. I am hoping to get the current stock out to you guys shortly. Please keep being patient!
More are on the way.
/MikeJ
Hi Mike,
I resent at your mikej@freeuk.com
Cheers!
-
The day this is released with all sources for building it yourself I don't think I'll be able to hold back from ordering any longer...
-
Hi,
I don't often check the PMs but I do respond to all email.
There was a bit of a forwarding problem recently.
There's a couple of you here on Amiga.org who mail me regularly. I am hoping to get the current stock out to you guys shortly. Please keep being patient!
More are on the way.
/MikeJ
I hope I'm still on your list, after your reply from april 18 2011, I havn't seen a newer mail. :)
-
I hope also that I am on the list also. I haven't seen any emails from you since July 1, 2011.
thanks
DLH
-
I also hope I am still on the list, No E-Mails from March 2, 2011, don't wish to be annoying just rather excited about this!
-
where can i find mikej's current e-mail addy?
-
Re: FPGA Replay Board
I hope that once these boards are available for sale they can be sold on ebay, or if not, at least from a site that takes paypal.
-
use
mikej at fpgaarcade dot com
I'm changing the forwarding settings, I've been having some email issues.
I take paypal and I'm in talk in with several distributors.
I still have the list...
/MikeJ
-
Way to go Mike :)
Just keep pushing !
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Hi Mike, Hi @ All,
Is there some news ?
I don't know if there is an another tread about the release of the replay board ?
Anyway the fpgaarcade home web site is not update since long time.
-
@mikej i emailed you yesterday with my order. i hope it reached you.
-
Hi Mike, Hi @ All,
Is there some news ?
I don't know if there is an another tread about the release of the replay board ?
Anyway the fpgaarcade home web site is not update since long time.
There is a new site but its not finished yet.
there's a link to it a page or two back in this thread.
-
You have the URL? I can't find it.
-
Can I get an FPGA Replay card with 060 card?
What are my options with 060 card?
Can I get one with an MMU? How many Mhz? How many $$$?
-
Can I get an FPGA Replay card with 060 card?
What are my options with 060 card?
Can I get one with an MMU? How many Mhz? How many $$$?
this, This, THIS!
Furthermore, any chance of turning this into a fully compliant accelerator for an Amiga 1200?
-
Can I get an FPGA Replay card with 060 card?
What are my options with 060 card?
Can I get one with an MMU? How many Mhz? How many $$$?
I have just answered a whole load of emails - if I have missed anybody I am sorry.
I am keeping a careful log of every order request.
The 060 card has completed layout but I am holding manufacture until the main board is rolling. They are finally kitting for production now, although some chips have not arrived at the factory yet.
I am having some problems sourcing decent 68060 chips of the last mask set, but you can fit your own processor if you have one.
/MikeJ
-
Hi Mike.
Just sent you a PM.
Those 060 daughterboards sound awesome.
Best of luck to you.
-
Yay! I finally got a reply! I am on the list!!! :)
-
I hope I'm not too late to the game.
What I've seen in the Minimig AGA video so far seems really awesome and this seems to be the most affordable way to buy into 060 hardware.
I think if I can get ahold of one and once I've towerized my Amiga 1200, I'll place one of these into the resulting empty Amiga 1200 desktop case.
-
Frankly speaking there is not much to show right now. Everything has been delayed slightly.
I should get the new revision of the board shortly after Mike has verified the design. The daughter board should be ready in January.
In the meantime Tobias has managed to implement missing bitfield instructions. It has increased the core size to 75% of the FPGA.
We are still working on fixing minor problems. Finally we've got the RNC Copy Lock games to work.
If you are part of the team for FPGAReplay is it possible...in the new version you can at least give the user the ability to use real storage media such as HD, Disk Drive, Optical Media, etc? Please, can you consider it in the future? Can you turn it into a desktop motherbord with build in PCI, allow for video card too as well? Can you consider it? Thanks.
-
Just sent an email to support@fpgaarcade.com
I hope it's the right address.
I kind of really want one now.
With the lack of proper accelerators for classic Amigas, this would make the perfect developer system.
-
PCI etc.. = more $$ and also more EMC issues.
Just a suggestion.. put a list in the order of first to get board online. Then less people need ask for the status ;)
-
If you are part of the team for FPGAReplay is it possible...in the new version you can at least give the user the ability to use real storage media such as HD, Disk Drive, Optical Media, etc? Please, can you consider it in the future? Can you turn it into a desktop motherbord with build in PCI, allow for video card too as well? Can you consider it? Thanks.
Hi.
I got an email with a similar question, but I will answer here as well.
Answer is no, the board is relatively cheap as it is small - it's as small as it can be and fit everything on. It fits on two normal ATX holes quite stably so it will go in an itx/atx etc case.
PCI does not help at all - it would have to be PCI express nowadays which is fairly complex to bridge. The idea is future daughter boards could add more advanced features.
SD cards give you significant storage and emulate hard drives as fast as the original Amiga drives pretty much in transfer rate. You can hook USB devices from the daughter board.
/MikeJ
-
Hey Mike.
Have you received my email? Is support@fpgaarcade.com the correct address?
-
Hi.
PCI does not help at all - it would have to be PCI express nowadays which is fairly complex to bridge. The idea is future daughter boards could add more advanced features.
It would help because then the user could plug in a 256MB PCI gfx card with a highspeed blitter and highspeed local VRAM onboard.
As the gfx card is easily available for sale and has an OpenPCI driver (and also an Elbox driver) it is something everyone could make use of.
It would also allow 16-bit sound cards to be plugged in but I would rather that the FPGA team added a 16-bit paula to get 16-bit sound that way.
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Hi.
I got an email with a similar question, but I will answer here as well.
Answer is no, the board is relatively cheap as it is small - it's as small as it can be and fit everything on. It fits on two normal ATX holes quite stably so it will go in an itx/atx etc case.
PCI does not help at all - it would have to be PCI express nowadays which is fairly complex to bridge. The idea is future daughter boards could add more advanced features.
SD cards give you significant storage and emulate hard drives as fast as the original Amiga drives pretty much in transfer rate. You can hook USB devices from the daughter board.
/MikeJ
Hey if you are saying that in the future there will be different daughterboards with different settings and upgrades and features and it is up to the user to which board or daughterboard they will buy, pretty much like a LEGO game THEN YOU HAVE ME AS A DEVOTED CUSTOMER all the way.
There is one request I would like ask. Can you make a new custom chipset from AGA similiar to what Commodore wanted with AAA? It does not have to be Nvidia quality, but at oleast allow for something like 256 MB of RAM chip RAM, FASTER SPEED AND BANDWIDTH than AGA and still support AGA/ECS/OCS for compatibility reasons, and it also support higher resolution AND IT CAN switch between PAL/NTSC and 31 Khz Monitor setting if the user wants too?
I mean if you manage to DO THAT you would have kicked Natami on the butt!! We do need more than 2 MB of CHIP RAM if possible and AGA is too weak to even run DOSBox or intensive media. :mad::rant:
Bring the Media back to Amiga is what I say!! :pint::banana::biglaugh:
Concerning USB devices, that is exactly what I will do. I will have a phsyical real USB HD and other USB media storage to run all my stuff. The SD cards will be used as a form of storage media and transfer between PC and it. By the way, any advice of the most COOLEST casing for it that COMES AS CLOSE as possible as to Commodore style casing (unintentionally) that you think will fit well with FPGA Replay Board? Thanks
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I think I remember a video of FPGA Arcade doing some 50+ MB of Chip RAM.
It will probably be configurable.
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I think I remember a video of FPGA Arcade doing some 50+ MB of Chip RAM.
It will probably be configurable.
I do not mind it if it is static and not configurable (either) and you have to buy newer motherboard models for a Chip RAM upgrade or better yet, it have a maximum limit say to 32 GB of chip RAM or even 8 GB and you use a normal RAM DDR or whatever as a Chip RAM. Either way it is cool, but software configurable seems to me emulated (* shiver *)
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PCI does not help at all - it would have to be PCI express nowadays which is fairly complex to bridge. The idea is future daughter boards could add more advanced features.
Actually, I would prefer regular PCI . We have existing drivers, there are cheap PCI cards available for less than $10 and it's fast enough without a faster CPU. You get cheap gfx cards with 3D and more memory, SATA and SCSI cards, sound cards, etc. Can you really add features like USB, ethernet, SATA, memory as cheap as they can be added with a PCI bus? I bought a 100mbit ethernet card for $5 a couple of years ago. The only disadvantage is that it would take more space. I would like to have an expandable expansion board for a small tower and a small expansion board for a laptop. I understand the more advanced features later part though ;).
SD cards give you significant storage and emulate hard drives as fast as the original Amiga drives pretty much in transfer rate. You can hook USB devices from the daughter board.
My CSMK3 does 30MB/s sustained DMA HD transfers with very low CPU usage. My Voodoo 4 gfx card gives 3D, very fast 2D (compared to AGA) and extra main memory. The fpga Arcade will be slower and a step down in many ways from what I have. I will still buy one with the expansion board as it has some kool features but PCI opens up many interesting possibilities that you are neglecting to see.
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Actually, I would prefer regular PCI . We have existing drivers, there are cheap PCI cards available for less than $10 and it's fast enough without a faster CPU. You get cheap gfx cards with 3D and more memory, SATA and SCSI cards, sound cards, etc. Can you really add features like USB, ethernet, SATA, memory as cheap as they can be added with a PCI bus? I bought a 100mbit ethernet card for $5 a couple of years ago. The only disadvantage is that it would take more space. I would like to have an expandable expansion board for a small tower and a small expansion board for a laptop. I understand the more advanced features later part though ;).
My CSMK3 does 30MB/s sustained DMA HD transfers with very low CPU usage. My Voodoo 4 gfx card gives 3D, very fast 2D (compared to AGA) and extra main memory. The fpga Arcade will be slower and a step down in many ways from what I have. I will still buy one with the expansion board as it has some kool features but PCI opens up many interesting possibilities that you are neglecting to see.
I also believe it is a step down because it still use AGA as the latest custom chipset. We need something AT LEAST like AAA for a starter as a default build in to the motherboard custom chipset, with PCI slots to allow users to upgrade to video cards if they should need better and more powerful graphics ability. Imagine the awesome new games and apps that take advantage of the hardware if we at least add these two features!!!
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as much as i would like to see pci or pcie enabled upgrade to (68k) amigas id prefer the fpgaarcade (and the 060 daughterboard) to reach the consumer availability stage first asap, just before it turns into another vapor.
can we stop the feature creap demands for now, please?
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as much as i would like to see pci or pcie enabled upgrade to (68k) amigas id prefer the fpgaarcade (and the 060 daughterboard) to reach the consumer availability stage first asap, just before it turns into another vapor.
can we stop the feature creap demands for now, please?
You are missing the point. We are not demanding them now. We are giving him list of cool features to consider for the future. Right now I would also want it to come with 060 daughterboard and fpgaarcade at this point.
However, in the future whatever that be in years, we are simply inputing what we like as a cool feature. It is not like we have a control over what he decides. Also you could have worded your feeling more....say....politically -_-
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Actually, I would prefer regular PCI . We have existing drivers, there are cheap PCI cards available for less than $10 and it's fast enough without a faster CPU.
if we take aros route we can have as much drivers as we want, there are tons of them available, and gallium brings its own share. unfortunatelly leading developers are extremally overloaded and there is not enough (competent) testers to push the development finally through. for instance arostcp stack is working on my a4k, but seems slower than miamidx under aros68k on same system. why? i cant tell. but someone with enough knowledge might find out.
i have now forwarded all the prometheus documentation i could gather to jason and toni and have jasons word he will look at the 68k pci after holidays again. but we have to stick to small goals, taken step by step.
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Amount of chip/fast RAM is just a matter of hardware description language (HDL) settings. And can be changed at will at boot. Perhaps while running too. The third option is RAM disc.
As for features. There is a slot that makes it possible to add various boards. YOU can even make your own if you wish. You don't have to rely on MikeJ for that. Also given a multi layer board every extra surface area costs premium.
One option for a daughter board may be an extra FPGA which could then implement hard to get MC68060. And non-existent AAA.
(and I agree fully with MikeJ last answer regarding PCI)
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Correct, the 64MB of mainboard memory assignment can be changed by OSD config. This modifies settings in the FPGA hardware. Changes are updated on reset.
The Amiga core already contains enhanced RTG graphics and 16 bit audio (DAC is 24 bit). ChaosLord is correct in that even a legacy graphics card will offer better 2D performance, but this is something we can maybe address in the FPGA. The DDR2 memory for bursts should outperform old VRAM.
In theory you could have a daughterboard which has a number of PCI sockets directly connected to the main board, although I need to check the IO configuration. 3V3/universal cards only.
The main problem was the drivers, but you could keep the prometheus memory map and use their drivers.
Anyhow, I prefer to enhance the main card and not worry too much about legacy stuff for now.
/MikeJ
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Hi All and Mike :)
I hope receiving this new firmware quickly for making some new video with it on my personnal web server HERE (http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/).
Thanks for your awesome work ;)
Faranheit
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I do not mind it if it is static and not configurable (either) and you have to buy newer motherboard models for a Chip RAM upgrade or better yet, it have a maximum limit say to 32 GB of chip RAM or even 8 GB and you use a normal RAM DDR or whatever as a Chip RAM. Either way it is cool, but software configurable seems to me emulated (* shiver *)
The "software" in this case is a hardware description, not a conventional software language. It's a re-implementation, not an emulation.
Also, is it me, or are all the Amiga.org images dead?
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I also believe it is a step down because it still use AGA as the latest custom chipset. We need something AT LEAST like AAA for a starter as a default build in to the motherboard custom chipset, with PCI slots to allow users to upgrade to video cards if they should need better and more powerful graphics ability. Imagine the awesome new games and apps that take advantage of the hardware if we at least add these two features!!!
IIRC the FPGA Arcade Amiga implementation provides a standard SVGA graphics card implementation alongside the AGA implementation, and in addition the AGA implementation is not held back by memory bandwidth issues, and can be clocked faster, and thus you shouldn't compare it with classic AGA. Indeed it can be coded to have a full 32-bit blitter I imagine, and multiple Paula audio blocks for more sound channels.
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The "software" in this case is a hardware description, not a conventional software language. It's a re-implementation, not an emulation.
The term emulation has been used for hardware that pretends to be other hardware before software based emulators became widespread.
Emulation is an intent, not a method.
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Sources to that claim?
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IIRC the FPGA Arcade Amiga implementation provides a standard SVGA graphics card implementation alongside the AGA implementation, and in addition the AGA implementation is not held back by memory bandwidth issues, and can be clocked faster, and thus you shouldn't compare it with classic AGA. Indeed it can be coded to have a full 32-bit blitter I imagine, and multiple Paula audio blocks for more sound channels.
What you are saying that I could enjoy the pleasures of AGA on a TV without its limitation? That this new AGA is actually a new build in custom chipset not emulated and build from scratch and in fact could be treated as AGA+?
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What you are saying that I could enjoy the pleasures of AGA on a TV without its limitation? That this new AGA is actually a new build in custom chipset not emulated and build from scratch and in fact could be treated as AGA+?
I'm sure that there will be a cycle accurate version, but there is no reason (limits of the FPGA notwithstanding) that the core cannot also be extended to include more features and higher performance - "AGA+" as you mention.
I'm not sure how much work has been done in the FPGA Arcade cores along this line, except that there is a Picasso96 compatible basic graphics card implemented alongside the AGA chipset support.
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Correct, the 64MB of mainboard memory assignment can be changed by OSD config. This modifies settings in the FPGA hardware. Changes are updated on reset.
Ok so it sounds like we can have up to 64MB of chipram and use the daughterboard for 128MB fastram.
Can the RTG RAM share the chipram? Or not?
Like could we have 64MB chipram + 64MB RTG ram using the same block of RAM on the mainboard?
I am just trying to work out what the capabilities are.
If they can't share the same mem then when I write my RTG game for Replay I would prob say "If u have the 060 daughterboard: Set ur chipram to 4MB and your RTG RAM to 60MB"
I am also curious as to how fast the 060 can copy data from its 128MB bank of fastram to the mainboard RAM. Its makes a giant difference as to what I can do with Animation. When the Natami work evaporated, it was really really slooow to copy from fastram to chipram with the CPU. That part of the memory controller had not been optimized in any way. So I am curious if ur memory controller suffers the same limitation/flaw.
My CPU blitting routines are over 140x faster than the AGA blitter on Real AGA Amigas. But that only works if the CPU can copy data from Fastram to Chipram in a reasonable manner. If you have a great memory controller then my routines will go even faster on Replay. But if your memory controller is crippled then my speed could drop to 10x blitter speed which would be really completely useless for my hires hispeed animated gamez.
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Also, is it me, or are all the Amiga.org images dead?
Only avatar pictures are loading for me.
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I'm sure that there will be a cycle accurate version, but there is no reason (limits of the FPGA notwithstanding) that the core cannot also be extended to include more features and higher performance - "AGA+" as you mention.
I'm not sure how much work has been done in the FPGA Arcade cores along this line, except that there is a Picasso96 compatible basic graphics card implemented alongside the AGA chipset support.
Two more questions:
1) Can I hook it into my Commodore 1084s/TV? :D
2) Where can I order it, how much it would cost and is it available for sale now, can you direct me to the most sexiest cases for it that come close to Commodore style case if possible that you could recommend?
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Two more questions:
1) Can I hook it into my Commodore 1084s/TV? :D
2) Where can I order it, how much it would cost and is it available for sale now, can you direct me to the most sexiest cases for it that come close to Commodore style case if possible that you could recommend?
One word (or a collection of letters and numbers, rather):
X500!
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Ok so it sounds like we can have up to 64MB of chipram and use the daughterboard for 128MB fastram.
Can the RTG RAM share the chipram? Or not?
As I've said once before our DDR memory controller is dual ported. One port is connected to the AGA chipset and the CPU while the other one is used exclusively by the RTG display module. It means the CPU can write to RTG memory with the same speed regardless of display mode.
The RTG RAM is allocated by our Picasso96 driver from CHIP RAM pool. So if we want to have 8MB graphics card we need to allocate 8MB of CHIP RAM. If we want 32MB RTG buffer we need to allocate 32MB of CHIP RAM.
Like could we have 64MB chipram + 64MB RTG ram using the same block of RAM on the mainboard?
No, because it's the same physical memory. In fact we can have maximum 50MB of CHIP RAM (2MB standard + 48MB extra). The rest of 64MB is used by ROM, SLOW and Z2 FAST RAM.
I am just trying to work out what the capabilities are.
If they can't share the same mem then when I write my RTG game for Replay I would prob say "If u have the 060 daughterboard: Set ur chipram to 4MB and your RTG RAM to 60MB"
Right now the Picasso96 driver decides how much RAM it wants to use so if you want to use RTG you should set the CHIP RAM config to maximum.
I am also curious as to how fast the 060 can copy data from its 128MB bank of fastram to the mainboard RAM.
The actual speed depends heavily on chipset activity. The CPU can write to the CHIP RAM as fast as 28 MB/s. With all DMA channels active (excluding the blitter) the speed drops to 14 MB/s. The RTG display uses another memory access port so no matter what the RTG display mode is the CPU can write to the RTG memory always with maximum speed.
Its makes a giant difference as to what I can do with Animation. When the Natami work evaporated, it was really really slooow to copy from fastram to chipram with the CPU. That part of the memory controller had not been optimized in any way. So I am curious if ur memory controller suffers the same limitation/flaw.
Our memory controller can be optimized further. Right now it's faster than any other Amiga chipset.
My CPU blitting routines are over 140x faster than the AGA blitter on Real AGA Amigas. But that only works if the CPU can copy data from Fastram to Chipram in a reasonable manner. If you have a great memory controller then my routines will go even faster on Replay. But if your memory controller is crippled then my speed could drop to 10x blitter speed which would be really completely useless for my hires hispeed animated gamez.
Our CHIP RAM controller is two times faster than in the fastest Amiga. It means the blitter can move data at least twice as fast. The difference is higher when more bitplanes are displayed.
For compatibility reasons the AGA blitter is 16-bit like its real counterpart. But I have implemented another 32-bit blitter to accelerate RTG operations. It's much faster.
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Thank u for all the delicious details!
For compatibility reasons the AGA blitter is 16-bit like its real counterpart.
Smart decision.
But I have implemented another 32-bit blitter to accelerate RTG operations. It's much faster.
Excellent decision!
You are very intelligent!
I can't believe I wasted 20 hours trying to convince Gunnar to make a better blitter when I should have directed my typing at you instead.
How many Mhz does your 32-bit RTG blitter run at?
Does the RTG blitter have some internal SRAM buffer space it can use to speed up blitting?
The reason my blitting routines are so fast is that I mix multiple layers of gfx inside the CPU registers. A cpu register is way the hell faster than fastram or chipram.
So my blits work like this:
Blit(source1, source2, source3, source4, source5, source 6, source7, source8, destination)
So I save massive amounts of memory bandwidth over the oldskool Natami blitter.
Using Natami blitter or AGA blitter I must do it the lame way:
Blit(source1,destination);
Blit(source2,destination);
Blit(source3,destination);
Blit(source4,destination);
Blit(source5,destination);
Blit(source6,destination);
Blit(source7,destination);
Blit(source8,destination);
This wastes massive amounts of memory bandwidth and bus bandwidth.
So its way faster for me to do blitting with CPU on 030. Wayyyy faster on 060.
If ur blitter has some internal SRAM to work with then you could implement a multisource to one destination blitter that would massively increase blitting power.
Something for u to think about :)
If u can't do it that's ok. I can keep using my 060 to do the blitting.
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The actual speed depends heavily on chipset activity. The CPU can write to the CHIP RAM as fast as 28 MB/s. With all DMA channels active (excluding the blitter) the speed drops to 14 MB/s. The RTG display uses another memory access port so no matter what the RTG display mode is the CPU can write to the RTG memory always with maximum speed.
Ok so I can write to the RTG ram at 28MB/sec.
On my A1200 with Mediator I can only write to RTG at 9MB/sec
Replay FTW!
OTOH the Mediator has a 256MB gfx card with superfast Radeon blitter.
I "just assume" that the radeon blitter is faster than the Replay RTG blitter.
I hope Replay is a big success and then a couple years down the road u could make a Replay2 :)
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What would also be cool is to see Amiga Flash back systems in stores some day like there are Atari Flash back systems. :)
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Some nice details there, thanks yaqube!
Does the RTG implementation have any other acceleration - line draw, block fill, etc (functions within graphics.library would be the best things to accelerate)?
I'll be buying a Replay just because supporting it now makes the likelihood of a Replay 2 in five years time higher. Never mind the chance of updates to the Replay implementing even faster features.
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Some nice details there, thanks yaqube!
Does the RTG implementation have any other acceleration - line draw, block fill, etc (functions within graphics.library would be the best things to accelerate)?
I'll be buying a Replay just because supporting it now makes the likelihood of a Replay 2 in five years time higher. Never mind the chance of updates to the Replay implementing even faster features.
I want one too. where can I order one?
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What you are saying that I could enjoy the pleasures of AGA on a TV without its limitation? That this new AGA is actually a new build in custom chipset not emulated and build from scratch and in fact could be treated as AGA+?
Well, even the ECS in the minimig 1.1 when in turbo mode will outperform AGA in some cases....
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Well, even the ECS in the minimig 1.1 when in turbo mode will outperform AGA in some cases....
Yeah, but still where can I get the board?
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Yeah, but still where can I get the board?
Seems AmigaKit have sold out.
If you do find some in stock then make sure you get the 4MB upgrade. Personally I'd just wait for the FPGA Aracde at this point.
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Seems AmigaKit have sold out.
If you do find some in stock then make sure you get the 4MB upgrade. Personally I'd just wait for the FPGA Aracde at this point.
I am not interested in mini mag, I was asking where can I buy the FPGA arcade?
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Mail me at mikej at fpgaarcade dot com
There is a list. There will be website ordering from my site and I am talking to disties.
/MikeJ
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Two more questions:
1) Can I hook it into my Commodore 1084s/TV? :D
2) Where can I order it, how much it would cost and is it available for sale now, can you direct me to the most sexiest cases for it that come close to Commodore style case if possible that you could recommend?
Try reading more than 1 or maybe 2 posts in thread before spamming it?
I want one too. where can I order one?
Try reading more than 1 or maybe 2 posts in thread before spamming it?
Yeah, but still where can I get the board?
Try reading more than 1 or maybe 2 posts in thread before spamming it?
I am not interested in mini mag, I was asking where can I buy the FPGA arcade?
Try reading more than 1 or maybe 2 posts in thread before spamming it?
Are you getting the idea yet? There is a long waiting list. Pretty sure I am 18 months or more in the queue but I could be wrong. Without developing some patience (which clearly from your 4 posts highlighted above you seem to struggle with), you might as well go find something else to buy.
Yes, FPGA Replay is very impressive and exciting but you need to Keep Calm and Learn to Wait!
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(http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-learn-to-wait.png)
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Well. AmigaClassicRule's posts are somewhat understandable.
It would be nice if all the important information in this thread would be compressed to the OP.
Furthermore, the FPGA Arcade homepage is severly lacking.
If it wasn't for mikej's (very much overdue) latest post, I'd probably still wait for a reply since the email address I wrote to is, apparently, not valid anymore.
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@thread
what price are we talking here and average lead time ?
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Well. AmigaClassicRule's posts are somewhat understandable.
It would be nice if all the important information in this thread would be compressed to the OP.
Furthermore, the FPGA Arcade homepage is severly lacking.
If it wasn't for mikej's (very much overdue) latest post, I'd probably still wait for a reply since the email address I wrote to is, apparently, not valid anymore.
Yes the website is out of date, the new one is under development.
http://fpgaarcade.com/dev/drupal/
but little content yet. I suppose I could work on that, or I could work on getting boards shipped ;)
Blinx123, I do not read this site very much and I respond when I can.
All email is working as far as I know. Mail me again and stick Blinx in the message so I can correlate with the email address.
/MikeJ
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Yes the website is out of date, the new one is under development.
http://fpgaarcade.com/dev/drupal/
but little content yet. I suppose I could work on that, or I could work on getting boards shipped ;)
Blinx123, I do not read this site very much and I respond when I can.
All email is working as far as I know. Mail me again and stick Blinx in the message so I can correlate with the email address.
/MikeJ
Ok.
No problem. Already sent you another email.
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The daughterboard is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO beautiful:
http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/Pictures/060%20Daughter%20Board.gif (http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/Pictures/060%20Daughter%20Board.gif)
What are those ports in the daughterboard for? I can hardly wait till I get my hands on one of these babies too
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The daughterboard is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO beautiful:
http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/Pictures/060%20Daughter%20Board.gif (http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/Pictures/060%20Daughter%20Board.gif)
What are those ports in the daughterboard for? I can hardly wait till I get my hands on one of these babies too
Yea. It's definitely nice looking.
The one thing I'm a bit concerned over is whether this will fit into a desktop case.
I want to either plug this into an Amiga 1200 case, the X500 or (where it will probably fit) an Amiga 1000 case (if I can find one).
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@Blinx123:
I confirm that the FPGA Arcade board fits in the X500 case from Loriano.
For informations, for those who interested in this case, consider sending an email to Loriano or to me (laurentinfo57@gmail.com) for reserving it.
If there are enough reservations, this case will be produce.
You can see a video of this wonderful case project HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnYEmPqVbnw).
Thanks, Faranheit
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@Blinx123:
I confirm that the FPGA Arcade board fits in the X500 case from Loriano.
For informations, for those who interested in this case, consider sending an email to Loriano or to me (laurentinfo57@gmail.com) for reserving it.
If there are enough reservations, this case will be produce.
You can see a video of this wonderful case project HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnYEmPqVbnw).
Thanks, Faranheit
You got mail good sir.
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You got mail good sir.
I have emailed too!! I do not care if it cost me 1.5k dollars if this is the setup I am getting. A REAL PHSYCIAL 2.5" HD (even though they recommend SD card), a real physical dvd player (optical media drive), I get to choose the blue and white LED, sexy case like that..all configured and ready for me...then take the 1.5k dollar and give me the entire X500 with FPGA inside it configured and ready!! :laughing::flame::pint::pint:
STUPPIDEST question ever...but it means lot for me...does it have the filter LED feature, where it dims and undims based on the audio filter and it flashes when the Amiga crashes like the classic?
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If there's a LED output, it's a piece of cake to fix.
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If there's a LED output, it's a piece of cake to fix.
What do you mean?
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Perhaps someone here could help mikej put the new website up for the fpga arcade. I don't have the knowledge or the time for that matter.
Just a thought.
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Perhaps someone here could help mikej put the new website up for the fpga arcade. I don't have the knowledge or the time for that matter.
Just a thought.
I will but for 50% discount of purchasing the FPGA Board of course :biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:
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Perhaps someone here could help mikej put the new website up for the fpga arcade. I don't have the knowledge or the time for that matter.
Just a thought.
Never worked with Drupal before (all our infrastructure runs on Wordpress and I usually use Blogger for my own personal stuff) but could probably give it a try.
Would be cool, if Mike could consider me as a software developer for the project (do they have such a thing? I know Natami's got it).
I'd be happy to code new applications and games, if I can get an FPGA Replay in time.
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Bump! Any news? :)
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I bet it won't be ready to send this year. ;]
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If you can't identify basic computer ports, I sincerely worry about how you are planning on spending your money.
PS: The one screened "ETHERNET" is probably an RJ-45 network port. The 3 on the top left are USB (also labelled). That big square thing is a 68060 CPU.
:)
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You have to wait until next year for anything to happen! :D
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The daughterboard is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO beautiful:
http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/Pictures/060%20Daughter%20Board.gif (http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/Pictures/060%20Daughter%20Board.gif)
What are those ports in the daughterboard for? I can hardly wait till I get my hands on one of these babies too
Looks like
top (left to right):
3 x usb
mouse (ps2)
keyboard (ps2)
video (DVI)
microsd
bottom (left to right):
Power (molex)
Ethernet (rj45)
2xJoystick + Serial (9 pin D)
Digital audio (toslink)
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What's the point of a mechanical hard drive? They're slow and consume way too much power. SD cards are the way to go, it isn't as if you're going to need more that 128 GB, is it?
I have emailed too!! I do not care if it cost me 1.5k dollars if this is the setup I am getting. A REAL PHSYCIAL 2.5" HD (even though they recommend SD card), a real physical dvd player (optical media drive), I get to choose the blue and white LED, sexy case like that..all configured and ready for me...then take the 1.5k dollar and give me the entire X500 with FPGA inside it configured and ready!! :laughing::flame::pint::pint:
STUPPIDEST question ever...but it means lot for me...does it have the filter LED feature, where it dims and undims based on the audio filter and it flashes when the Amiga crashes like the classic?
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In the other end of Ethernet you can place a terabyte fileserver far away so you don't have to be bothered by it's noise but still can enjoy the file space ;)
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In the other end of Ethernet you can place a terabyte fileserver far away so you don't have to be bothered by it's noise but still can enjoy the file space ;)
Uhh, noise is why I seek motor HD instead of slate drive :)
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Hi,
I don't know if my question was already answered, but this is ~150 page thread...
Will a 060 card for FPGA have MMU onboard? Or will this CPU be somewhat crippled for best speed?
Regards,
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Hi,
I don't know if my question was already answered, but this is ~300 page thread...
Will a 060 card for FPGA have MMU onboard? Or will this CPU be somewhat crippled for best speed?
I think this depends on what mikej can source - I believe he is trying for fully featured ones, but there is a massive remarking issue with these CPUs as they are now relatively rare.
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Idea.. use the daughterboard with special FPGA setup to test and separate the fakes from the real thing?
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yes, that's how we test them.
That's not the problem, finding any real ones is ;)
/MikeJ
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Is it possible to buy the FPGA Arcade and buy the '060 board bare so that I can put my own '060 on it? If so, would the board clock anywhere from 50MHz to 100MHz or are there specific frequencies it needs to run at? Mine are 66MHz for example.
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In the other end of Ethernet you can place a terabyte fileserver far away so you don't have to be bothered by it's noise but still can enjoy the file space ;)
I have a 6tb NAS that is quieter than the TIVO and PS3 under my TV. So I just keep it all in one place.
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Is it possible to buy the FPGA Arcade and buy the '060 board bare so that I can put my own '060 on it?.
I believe the expansion board is going to be offered with the cpu as an optional extra (until mikes 060 stocks run out). You don't even need a cpu in the slot to make use of the other features of the expansion board (extra memory, 2nd SDcard card, network etc).
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I am definitely interested in this project for emulations. :) Please let me know where to get this hardware. Thanks!
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There is no "emulation"..
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I realize that, which is why I want the hardware. I have written a few emulations in my day, and I just so happen to know VHDL.
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There is no "emulation"..
Please don't start this discussion again, emulation doesn't mean what you want it to.
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There is no "emulation"..
Indeed not, any FPGA implementation is a re-implementation of the hardware, not an emulation of the hardware. Emulation implies a software shim between the native hardware and the emulated hardware.
On an FPGA, there is no native hardware, it's just a collection of logic that has to be configured into BEING something, in this case a re-implementation of the Amiga hardware.
However, when I read his post I thought he meant running emulation software (e.g., a ZX Spectrum emulator) on the re-implemented Amiga. Heh.
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Indeed not, any FPGA implementation is a re-implementation of the hardware, not an emulation of the hardware. Emulation implies a software shim between the native hardware and the emulated hardware.
That is the problem. That is what you infer, but that is not what it implies at all.
While I hate to quote Wikipedia because you'll just l0lz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator)
"A hardware emulator is an emulator which takes the form of a hardware device. Examples include the DOS-compatible card installed in some old-world Macintoshes like Centris 610 or Performa 630 that allowed them to run PC programs and FPGA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-programmable_gate_array)-based hardware emulators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_emulation)."
If anything an fpga could be more of an emulation than a software emulator, as generally software emulators only simulate the individual chips & using an fpga you can get closer to using the same techniques as the original chips. It's only recently that a bunch of chip software simulations that have been strung together has actually been referred to as emulation, previously it was only hardware based solutions that qualified.
If you're going to argue about what an fpga behaving like an amiga is or isn't, then please use the correct terminology.
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It's not an "emulator", as the commonly understood meaning is "software [-implemented] emulator". We then get people who think Minimig is just UAE running in an FPGA, when that is most certainly not the case.
I might grant "Hardware [-Implemented] Emulator". But you have to be specific in this case, because of the above.
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@all,
can we please take the emulation/not emulation argument elsewhere? Perhaps the FPGA for Dummies thread where it has already overtaken more useful aspects of the topic, so we can keep this thread about the Replay product?
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59952&highlight=fpga+dummies
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As an emulation author, using both hardware and software to perform emulations, I can tell you that if the device is not the original then it is being emulated... period. To emulate is to mimic. So, an emulator reproduces the original object. Sheesh, I am not sure why the terminology matters to some. I am just interested in making some emulators using the FPGA hardware because of the accuracy that is possible.
So, I will ask my original (non-emulated) question again... where can this hardware be purchased along with the 060 add-on?
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I concur.
Is it an Amiga? No.
Is it running Amiga software by pretending to be an Amiga? Yes.
Clearly it is emulating an Amiga.
It is an emulator. Different than WinUAE, granted, but still an emulator.
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My only issue is that people, when they see "emulator" assume it's something like UAE and therefore not a real Amiga, and that it would have all the issues that software emulators have.
So call it a hardware level emulator, or hardware re-implementation, or FPGA implementation. But not 'emulator' in isolation.
Ask any Minimig owner if they feel they are running a real Amiga - they would say yes. There's no translation of CPU opcodes going on, there's no software implementation of the chipset. That's because it is running the CPU opcodes directly on the hardware, it's hitting the chipset registers directly in the hardware, and so on. It's not the original hardware, no. But we don't say that AGA emulates OCS do we?
Next up will be someone saying it's running on software because the FPGA is programmed using a netlist compiled from VHDL, which looks like software to them.
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It's not an "emulator", as the commonly understood meaning is "software [-implemented] emulator". We then get people who think Minimig is just UAE running in an FPGA, when that is most certainly not the case.
I get why you don't want to call it an emulator. It goes back to the "I hate winuae, winuae is an emulator, therefore I hate emulators, I love fpga, therefore fpga isn't an emulator" logical fallacy.
Pandering to the uneducated is stupid.
Next up will be someone saying it's running on software because the FPGA is programmed using a netlist compiled from VHDL, which looks like software to them.
You'll change your mind when we have a CPU with a million cores and someone writes an emulator that dedicates each core to one gate. For now you're too hung up on implementation details, rather than concepts.
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Enough with the god damn emulator discussion !
You poison each and every thread with it. Can't you call this exactly what it is ?
It is FPGA Replay ! Call it FPGA Replay ! When can I buy FPGA Replay ? What will be the price of this FPGA Replay ? What can I run on my FPGA Replay ? It may be an emulator. It may not be an emulator. Who the hell cares ! It's FPGA Replay and it will do stuff. Respect other people's work and don't be an A-hole !
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It may not be an emulator. Who the hell cares !
Apparently freqmax & Hattig do. I'm not sure whether they are trolling or not. But Jim Drew said he wanted to write some emulations for it and they both jumped on him.
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* munches on popcorn *
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As an emulation author, using both hardware and software to perform emulations, I can tell you that if the device is not the original then it is being emulated... period. To emulate is to mimic. So, an emulator reproduces the original object. Sheesh, I am not sure why the terminology matters to some. I am just interested in making some emulators using the FPGA hardware because of the accuracy that is possible.
So, I will ask my original (non-emulated) question again... where can this hardware be purchased along with the 060 add-on?
HI Jim,
Production has started on the next batch although there are still some component sourcing issues.
The website is http://www.fpgaarcade.com
You can mail me at the address on the site to discuss.
Cheers,
Mike
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Whatever. I don't hate emulators, I just see that they're massively different if you consider a software implemented emulator, and a hardware implemented emulator. We had the arguments a long time ago because of LOTS of people thinking the Minimig was UAE running on an ARM or something, and then it was recognised that using the term "emulator" on its own was not useful.
I don't want to argue about this terminology to be honest, but a hardware implementation in my mind is very different from a software emulation. And in terms of potential user confusion, it's best to keep away from the "emulator" word. "Re-implementation" is a really good term IMO, it says exactly what it is.
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Whatever. I don't hate emulators, I just see that they're massively different if you consider a software implemented emulator, and a hardware implemented emulator. We had the arguments a long time ago because of LOTS of people thinking the Minimig was UAE running on an ARM or something, and then it was recognised that using the term "emulator" on its own was not useful.
I don't want to argue about this terminology to be honest, but a hardware implementation in my mind is very different from a software emulation. And in terms of potential user confusion, it's best to keep away from the "emulator" word. "Re-implementation" is a really good term IMO, it says exactly what it is.
+1 :)
Biggest reason why I will never own Minimig because it is completely burned in my brain and will not change is nothing more than UAE running on ARM. However, FPGA is completely custom based, real chipset, in my opinion the new and latest Amiga upgrade had Commodore continued in the line of 68k Amiga. Is why I did preorder for FPGA and did not spend a dime buying Minimig even if it is out already for sale.
If I am going to be running "emulator" in a hardware and pay for it, might as will use WinUAE and it is for free and no need for additional keyboard/mouse/monitor/space. But since FPGA is "Re-implementation" I will buy it :)
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I don't want to argue about this terminology to be honest, but a hardware implementation in my mind is very different from a software emulation. And in terms of potential user confusion, it's best to keep away from the "emulator" word. "Re-implementation" is a really good term IMO, it says exactly what it is.
That argument reminds me of the "there is no such thing as fish" argument.
http://swimmingunderwaterblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/there-is-no-such-thing-as-fish.html
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That argument reminds me of the "there is no such thing as fish" argument.
http://swimmingunderwaterblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/there-is-no-such-thing-as-fish.html
Why are you so persistent to ruin it for us. We want implementation not emulation. I will not pay money for emulator in a hardware, please don't ruin FPGA for me! I want a reimplemented upgraded new technology to the old technology of the Amiga classic. FPGA Replay is doing that for me so don't enforce "emulation" into this. Let me enjoy it. Please.
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Why are you so persistent to ruin it for us. We want implementation not emulation. I will not pay money for emulator in a hardware, please don't ruin FPGA for me! I want a reimplemented upgraded new technology to the old technology of the Amiga classic. FPGA Replay is doing that for me so don't enforce "emulation" into this. Let me enjoy it. Please.
One thing to consider, software "emulation" requires parsing, understanding, translating, and execution of the results of that translation. This FPGA stuff is a circuit. The Verilog or VHDL is a circuit design, and then the FPGA IS that circuit. There is no translation involved of the Amiga application or operating system you are running.
Some FPGA experts wish the FPGA inventors had used the term "configurable" rather than "programmable" for an FCGA instead of an FPGA, but that's all completed history.
Now, I don't understand why it's so important to decide to buy somethign or not based on a single word applies or not. Silly. So is the endurance of argumentation over such a trivial and unimportant word. The people who are adamant will not have their minds changed, let them believe they are right when you know better. (That goes for all of you, on both sides of the fence) Let's get back to productive, interesting discussions that have a point to them.
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+1 :)
Biggest reason why I will never own Minimig because it is completely burned in my brain and will not change is nothing more than UAE running on ARM. However, FPGA is completely custom based, real chipset, in my opinion the new and latest Amiga upgrade had Commodore continued in the line of 68k Amiga. Is why I did preorder for FPGA and did not spend a dime buying Minimig even if it is out already for sale.
If I am going to be running "emulator" in a hardware and pay for it, might as will use WinUAE and it is for free and no need for additional keyboard/mouse/monitor/space. But since FPGA is "Re-implementation" I will buy it :)
Uh...
Are you serious?
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+1 :)
Biggest reason why I will never own Minimig because it is completely burned in my brain and will not change is nothing more than UAE running on ARM. However, FPGA is completely custom based, real chipset, in my opinion the new and latest Amiga upgrade had Commodore continued in the line of 68k Amiga. Is why I did preorder for FPGA and did not spend a dime buying Minimig even if it is out already for sale.
If I am going to be running "emulator" in a hardware and pay for it, might as will use WinUAE and it is for free and no need for additional keyboard/mouse/monitor/space. But since FPGA is "Re-implementation" I will buy it :)
lol WUT? minimig is fpga chipset with REAL 68k cpu.
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Uh...
Are you serious?
Beyond serious. More serious than a heart attack even.
lol WUT? minimig is fpga chipset with REAL 68k cpu.
It was already sealed in my head ever since the mention of "emulation" of A500 by minimig that I am more than convinced the whole minimig is nothing more than hardware emulator of an A500 instead of software; more worse, I am convinced it is a software emulator run in a hardware. To that end I would rather use WinUAE since it is a configurable emulator with lots of choices and even emulate 8 MB chip RAM and support AGA and RTG emulation and when I am done I quit back to Windows. For that reason I not only not desire obtaining minimig but really turns me off all together. I would rather have a real A500 (if I am going through that direction) than an emulated A500 in minimig with emulation of floppy disk, HD and don't even get the real feel of a real A500 with the sexy Commodore case, I don't even get the pleasure of power LED turn off/on due mono/steroe or crashing like real Amiga 500.
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The "pleasure" of it crashing like a real A500? Dancing LED lights and clicky floppy drives? Really? No. Really??
I'd recommend you do your homework on the Minimig if you think it's simply a commodity solution running UAE. It's not. Think of it as the little brother of the FPGA Arcade solution if you like - there's not a heck of a lot different about the two in approaches.
I'm overjoyed at the thought of having an FPGA Arcade with '060 and daughterboard to use as my main, stable legacy Amiga replacement. No more cobbled together A1200 with doo-dads sticking out the sides, no flaky, slow PCMCIA ethernet cards - onboard ethernet, USB. Just great stuff. That being said, I don't do any Amiga gaming in the least - which is why the Minimig itself held zero appeal to me.
Crapped out floppy drives, noisy, hot, hideously slow SCSI hard disks aren't something I'll miss in the least.
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Thanks, Mike. I will check out the site and email you.
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By the way, any device that is not the original hardware and is able to run original software, is an emulator.... period. No matter if you like it or not. :)
FPGA based devices are emulators by definition (English). In the case of the Amiga, if you made a tiny double sided circuit board with the original chipset, it would not be an emulator. But emulating, recreating (or whatever you might try to call it) that chipset makes it an emulation of the original. There is simply no arguing with the exact definition of "emulator".
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By the way, any device that is not the original hardware and is able to run original software, is an emulator.... period. No matter if you like it or not. :)
FPGA based devices are emulators by definition (English). In the case of the Amiga, if you made a tiny double sided circuit board with the original chipset, it would not be an emulator. But emulating, recreating (or whatever you might try to call it) that chipset makes it an emulation of the original. There is simply no arguing with the exact definition of "emulator".
Your point is 100% completely vaild. AGA is an ECS emulator.
The thing is, for regular ppl on the street, your average Joe Blow thinks of "Emulator = laggy, with wild speed fluctuations like they have experienced over and over and over and over again in WinUAE and other software-based emulators"
An FCGA based "emulation" should never ever ever ever lag. It may run slow or fast but at least it should not lag.
I think they should consider renaming FPGAreplay to FCGAreplay/arcade.
@AmigaClassicRule
You should be aware that recreating actual hardware circuits like Replay/Natami are doing is a totally and completely different thing than running a slow program under windoze.
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I'm overjoyed at the thought of having an FPGA Arcade with '060 and daughterboard
Me too.
to use as my main, stable legacy Amiga replacement.
I was originally planning the same thing... but then I realized this may not work out because...
No more cobbled together A1200 with doo-dads sticking out the sides, no flaky, slow PCMCIA ethernet cards - onboard ethernet, USB.
A cobbled together A1200 gets to use 128MB (possibly 256MB) Radeon gfx cards which there is no way to do with the Replay.
noisy, hot, hideously slow SCSI hard disks aren't something I'll miss in the least.
If you don't like your SCSI hard drive you are allowed to buy a new quiet, cool, fast SCSI hard disk for your old Amiga. Or you could just get a cheap silent slow SD card like a lot of ppl do. Or you could use a new slow IDE drive.
Your SCSI controller is likely faster and smoother than whatever Replay has to offer. (Which I cannot remember right now.)
Complaining about SCSI is a really silly thing to do. :)
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In a world of cheap, great performing, reliable SATA - SCSI *is* crap, IMHO.
Most people would kill for native SATA on their Amigas.
I just ordered 2 2 TB SATA drives. $99 each.
Refurb 73 GB SCSI drive is $150.
So yeah, I do prefer SATA where it is an option.
As for drives on the FPGA, my intentions with it are to simply network it to my NAS box via SAMBA/SMBFS and use the onboard card for the OS. I don't need RTG myself, but I do see your point on that one.
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In a world of cheap, great performing, reliable SATA - SCSI *is* crap, IMHO.
Most people would kill for native SATA on their Amigas.
I just ordered 2 2 TB SATA drives. $99 each.
Refurb 73 GB SCSI drive is $150.
So yeah, I do prefer SATA where it is an option.
Does Replay have a SATA controller that I never heard about???
I have stacks of 2TB and 1.5TB drives too.
As for drives on the FPGA, my intentions with it are to simply network it to my NAS box via SAMBA/SMBFS and use the onboard card for the OS.
I have been doing that since 1999 with my "cobbled together" A1200.
The purpose of my $99.00 bgcpc is to connect cheap drives to it which are then networked to my A1200 via Ethernet. But my A1200T came with a 10mb/second Ethernet card which surely is a lot slower than my SCSI.
If I popped a 100mb/sec Ethernet card in there then it would be an interesting race to see which was faster, SCSI or Ethernet100.
I don't need RTG myself, but I do see your point on that one.
I only use it for certain specific things. For those certain specific things, RTG is awesome.
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FPGA Arcade doesn't have onboard SATA, no. Which is why I was going to go the ethernet route to my NAS box for file storage, but USB to SATA adapters (or just a simple USB based external HD) would always be an option for the thing I guess.
Used the adapters in the past with pretty good luck.
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The thing is, for regular ppl on the street, your average Joe Blow thinks of "Emulator = laggy, with wild speed fluctuations like they have experienced over and over and over and over again in WinUAE and other software-based emulators"
Wow, maybe using 486 machines this might be the case, but WinUAE runs faster (and consistantly so) on modern PCs than the original A4000 hardware. Likewise, my emulations on modern PC hardware run circles around the original Mac/Apple II/Atari computers they are emulating.
So, regular people on the street, at least in the U.S., think of emulators as often faster and perhaps less compatible than the original hardware. This is one big advantage of a FPGA based emulation platform, and the very reason why I am interested in this setup. FPGA setups allow you to easily make cycle exact chipset emulation, something that is much more difficult to do with software emulation. So, this FPGA hardware with 060 should be able to emulate an 060 Amiga setup exactly. Like mentioned previously by another forum user, I would like to get rid of all of my original Amiga development systems (A1000 through A4000) and have a single box capable of emulating them all.
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Biggest reason why I will never own Minimig because it is completely burned in my brain and will not change is nothing more than UAE running on ARM. However, FPGA is completely custom based, real chipset, in my opinion the new and latest Amiga upgrade had Commodore continued in the line of 68k Amiga. Is why I did preorder for FPGA and did not spend a dime buying Minimig even if it is out already for sale.
Minimig is a re-implemention in FPGA just as MikeJ's FPGA Replay. The difference is that the CPU is in ASIC and RAM is less etc.
A cobbled together A1200 gets to use 128MB (possibly 256MB) Radeon gfx cards which there is no way to do with the Replay.
The FPGA can interface directly to PCI 33/32 and other interfaces can be handled by added suitable transceiver chip or upgrading FPGA with onboard ones (Rocketport etc).
If you don't like your SCSI hard drive you are allowed to buy a new quiet, cool, fast SCSI hard disk for your old Amiga. Or you could just get a cheap silent slow SD card like a lot of ppl do. Or you could use a new slow IDE drive.
Your SCSI controller is likely faster and smoother than whatever Replay has to offer. (Which I cannot remember right now.)
Complaining about SCSI is a really silly thing to do. :)
The present drives are almost all either horrible expensive SAS drives which will not interface with Amiga or S-ATA ones that will neither. So you will still need to make do with the SCSI-1 SE narrow stuff that were common with Amiga. Present flashmemory (SD) will beat ordinary Amiga SCSI hardware on Mbyte/s basis.
The reason I bought SCSI is because it has a sound electrical interface, clean hardware API with well defined orthogonal commands, reliable etc. Something P-ATA never managed. Infact S-ATA drives are still second rate when it comes to build quality that's why SAS drives are more expensive. BUT with RAID or ZFS this issue is negated..
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Why are you so persistent to ruin it for us. We want implementation not emulation. I will not pay money for emulator in a hardware, please don't ruin FPGA for me! I want a reimplemented upgraded new technology to the old technology of the Amiga classic. FPGA Replay is doing that for me so don't enforce "emulation" into this. Let me enjoy it. Please.
I'll assume that this is sarcasm :-)
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
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The FPGA Replay is like an A1200, and A1200 is my favourite A500 emulator!
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8371 ASIC is a great OCS emulator ;)
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I don't know why people cringe so much at the word emulation. It's not a bad word and emulation whether done in software like UAE or hardware like Minimig or FPGA Replay are good ways to enjoy the retro experience without old hardware.
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I don't know why people cringe so much at the word emulation. It's not a bad word and emulation whether done in software like UAE or hardware like Minimig or FPGA Replay are good ways to enjoy the retro experience without old hardware.
Agreed. If it's enjoyable, it works for me.
I dare say things like AF, Amikit and UAE have got people that have not been in the Amiga scene back into it after many years away from it. I know myself if I hadn't found AF in 2007/2008, I likely would have never got back into the Amiga scene as heavily as I have.
Free UAE (or cheap Amiga Forever) vs. spending countless amounts of cash on the "real" hardware goes a long, long way. A lot of people have no interest in fiddling around with legacy hardware that can generally only be found second hand and in hit or miss condition.
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I don't know why people cringe so much at the word emulation. It's not a bad word and emulation whether done in software like UAE or hardware like Minimig or FPGA Replay are good ways to enjoy the retro experience without old hardware.
I don't cringe at the word "emulation", I just prefer to have different words for things based on different underlying technology. It has nothing to do with which one is "better".
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I don't cringe at the word "emulation", I just prefer to have different words for things based on different underlying technology. It has nothing to do with which one is "better".
Except emulation doesn't define the underlying technology.
It's like saying you can't have a car with an electric motor, because all cars have internal combustion engines.
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Please discuss the non re-implementation issues in the "FPGA for dummies (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59952)" thread.
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Software emulation - using a processor to execute software code that interprets input and provide output.
* inherently sequential, performance depends on host architecture and o/s
* subject to timing delays, output can lag behind input
* cheap to install and use on existing equipment
Example: UAE on a PC running Windows.
FPGA emulation - using a multitude of look-up tables and other basic logic elements embedded in a programmable integrated circuit to implement high-level logic algorithms.
* parallel by nature, real-time processing of input & output
* compact, most bus connections are internal
* recompilation needed for use on a different host platform
* host platform can be expensive
Examples: Minimig on Replay using an Xilinx Spartan3E FPGA, Boxer.
Hardware emulation - using discrete logic or fixed function generic integrated circuits to implement high-level logic algorithms.
* closest to original hardware
* implementations tend to be large
* no platform needed, bespoke hardware implementation
* construction can be very difficult and time consuming
Examples: Amiga Lorraine, Harlequin ZX Spectrum clone.
http://www.zxdesign.info/prototypeComplete.shtml
http://tarjan.uw.hu/zx_pix/harlequin/original/harlequin.jpg
Re-implementation - using original ASICs in a new architecture.
* requires cannibalisation of old computers for parts
* hard to assemble, needs patience and skill
* resulting implementation closely resembles original
Examples: Georg Braun's A1000, Phoenix A1000, Index Access & InsideOut.
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xyzzy, you are 100% spot on!
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Please discuss the non re-implementation issues in the "FPGA for dummies (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59952)" thread.
Yes, the next time we talk about emulation and you want to tell us that using an fpga isn't emulation... please go in the FPGA for dummies thread to discuss it.
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Examples: Minimig on Replay using an Xilinx Spartan3E FPGA, Boxer.
this is quite a cool one too.
http://opencores.org/project,zx_ula
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It is so cool to see that this thread exploded into a mega-thread :) It proves that the interest for this type of HW is what the market has a lot of interest in. Which again can mean Mike could earn some $$$ if he manages to sell a bunch. Hell -- he deserves it.
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Certainly won't make any money on it, but that's not the aim. I would like to recover my costs, which are over 10K usd so far...
Good news is I have got somebody to source all the components for me, it was taking too much time. They have tracked down nearly everything now - and we can order more at any point.
The PCBs have been produced and the assembly plant have completed the programming and are just waiting for the rest of the bits.
I have finished the PCB design and software for the USB adapter (which sits in place of the PS2 connectors). This works nicely with mouse and keyboard, and also through hub.
I am busy testing the new OSD and ARM firmware at the moment.
Best,
MikeJ
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FPGA emulation - using a multitude of look-up tables and other basic logic elements embedded in a programmable integrated circuit to implement high-level logic algorithms.
* parallel by nature, real-time processing of input & output
* compact, most bus connections are internal
* recompilation needed for use on a different host platform
* host platform can be expensive
Just a couple clarifications there:
it's not real-time processing of inputs & outputs, it's real-time propogation. There's no "processing" going on.
You don't recompile, you resynthesize to another FPGA architecture, or to another "size" of the "same architecture".
I'm not sure about compactness. The way an FPGA is made to be generic, and (re)configurable, makes it kindof big compared to the ASIC equivalent die space for the given user logic circuit. I'm not sure what you're comparing with.
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Great news mikej!... I can't wait until i get mine!....
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Certainly won't make any money on it, but that's not the aim. I would like to recover my costs, which are over 10K usd so far...
Welcome to the club! ;)
I have finished the PCB design and software for the USB adapter (which sits in place of the PS2 connectors). This works nicely with mouse and keyboard, and also through hub.
Let me know when one is available so I'll test it inside my X500 case.
Keep up the good work!
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If it is cycle exact hardware, what is the difference? He can't use the original chipsets because of copyright or patent.
The BoXer was going to have the AGA chipset put in an FPGA.
If Commodore had done a next gen Amiga, AGA and OCS would have been turfed (or really just crammed in somewhere for backward compatibility) in favour of chunky mode 24-bit graphics.
I am tolerant of those who like the old hardware, however I wish to have something modern. Old rusting and failing Amigas would cause me sadness and not joy.
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If it is cycle exact hardware, what is the difference? He can't use the original chipsets because of copyright or patent.
The BoXer was going to have the AGA chipset put in an FPGA.
If Commodore had done a next gen Amiga, AGA and OCS would have been turfed (or really just crammed in somewhere for backward compatibility) in favour of chunky mode 24-bit graphics.
I am tolerant of those who like the old hardware, however I wish to have something modern. Old rusting and failing Amigas would cause me sadness and not joy.
Heheh and you also have a giant CHICKEN for an avatar lol :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
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Chipset mask and routing is copyrighted. Their function is not but may be patented. However they are so old that the patents have expired.
The implementation in FPGA is a functionally equalient without using the original masks.
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Any news on the boards?. It's been a long time since the last email received from Mike.
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I got a bit of a bonus with work in December which means I can build the next 100 boards - I already had a lot of the parts and the sourcing company has got a complete kit now.
The PCBs are being manufactured now, so I should see these boards back for test in around three weeks. The money I get back from these will build the next batch etc.
/MikeJ
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And what about the cores, Mikej? Mine has been collecting dust, waiting for cores to use it... The current Amiga core isn't very compatible and I haven't seen any arcade, Atai 8 bit or ST cores to use it :(
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I haven't seen any arcade, Atari 8 bit or ST cores to use it :(
There doesn't exist any such core asfaik. So just fire up Xilinx ISE and you can make one most proberbly from gluing together existing HDL-cores.
Perhaps the ARM software has issues with a non-Amiga core?
@mikej, How large price difference per board would it be to produce a 1000 batch instead of 100? that also open up for direct sourceing of the BOM from the suppliers.
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Yes they do, just not releasable yet. I've had the ST/BBC B and most of the arcade games running on it. The ARM software is completely re-written now.
1000 is still small numbers, Xilinx etc will not deal with you directly unless you are much bigger than that.
/MikeJ
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I've had the ST/BBC B and most of the arcade games running on it.
Drool
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1000 is still small numbers, Xilinx etc will not deal with you directly unless you are much bigger than that.
The thinking was more on the support circuitry like eeprom, resistors, mosfet, regulators etc.
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1000 is still small numbers, Xilinx etc will not deal with you directly unless you are much bigger than that.
I bet you could do 10000+ with a Kickstarter at a slightly reduced price. The more cores the more interest outside of the Amiga community IMO. More console emulation like NES, SNES, Genesis, Neo Geo, x68000 etc. might be the biggest retro draw.
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I bet you could do 10000+ with a Kickstarter at a slightly reduced price. The more cores the more interest outside of the Amiga community IMO. More console emulation like NES, SNES, Genesis, Neo Geo, x68000 etc. might be the biggest retro draw.
The rules for hardware projects on Kickstarter got a lot more strict a while back due to so many fantasy imagination projects.
I think MikeJ is waiting until he has everything perfectly arranged to provide a complete success in 12 months. Supposedly projects that take longer than 1 year get negative publicity and complaints.
I am not claiming to be an expert on how kickstarter works. I just read a few articles about kickstarter while convalescing.
Plus you have to word things carefully. And anyway he can't say anything about NES emu on kickstarter. Its an instant lawsuit from Nintendo. Even if the core exists and works perfectly he still can't say anything about it on kickstarter. Do u want him to get assasinated? :crazy:
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Plus you have to word things carefully. And anyway he can't say anything about NES emu on kickstarter. Its an instant lawsuit from Nintendo. Even if the core exists and works perfectly he still can't say anything about it on kickstarter. Do u want him to get assasinated? :crazy:
Amiga Inc and Atari have probably already sent cease and desist orders ;). Of course he would need to be careful about what he advertises and says publically.
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Rights can be bought.
Shall we call them copyright trolls? ;)
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In the U.S. you most certainly could use the name NES as long as you recognized the name as a trademark in the information referencing it. This is allowed under the fair use laws.
Emulations are not illegal. I spent a great deal of time with attorneys back in 2000 dealing with this issue. I had emulations that specifically named Apple Computer, IBM, Intel, Atari, etc. I always gave full credit to trademarked names, and never had a single issue with any company trying to threaten me - and keep in mind that I had millions of downloads of the demo versions through downloads.com, so there was huge exposure.
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@JimDrew
I'm a bit surprised no one ever sued you. I expect Apple was the most upset about an Amiga emulator with 68060 being faster than any Mac they sold for awhile. Did you feel like they deliberately added 68060 incompatibilities to MacOS 8.x roms to keep the 68060 from running? I have heard this rumor before and MacOS 7.x seems to be more compatible with the 68060.
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In the U.S. you most certainly could use the name NES as long as you recognized the name as a trademark in the information referencing it. This is allowed under the fair use laws.
Nintendo does not respect fair use laws or any other US law for that matter.
Great Giana Sisters was allowed under the law. Parodies are a protected right and have been upheld in countless court cases. But that didn't stop Nintendo from crushing the Giana Sisters .
Emulations are not illegal.
Never said they were :)
Being a legal law-abiding citizen does not protect one from fake lawsuits.
I spent a great deal of time with attorneys back in 2000 dealing with this issue. I had emulations that specifically named Apple Computer, IBM, Intel, Atari, etc. I always gave full credit to trademarked names, and never had a single issue with any company trying to threaten me - and keep in mind that I had millions of downloads of the demo versions through downloads.com, so there was huge exposure.
Did you have a Nintendo or Sony emu?
Anyway I hope he does not get in any trouble from fake frivolous lawsuits filed by greedy evil power-mad illegal corporations.
/me casts Good Luck++ onto MikeJ
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@JimDrew
I'm a bit surprised no one ever sued you. I expect Apple was the most upset about an Amiga emulator with 68060 being faster than any Mac they sold for awhile.
If it looked like he was going to rake in 100 million $$$ then they would have filed a fake lawsuit on him to stop him. But he flew under the radar by only making 10 million $$$ or perhaps a bit less :D
Did you feel like they deliberately added 68060 incompatibilities to MacOS 8.x roms to keep the 68060 from running? I have heard this rumor before and MacOS 7.x seems to be more compatible with the 68060.
Sounds exactly like something Apple would do. Remember Apple was in a PPC Alliance with IBM and Motorola and Apple actively wanted to murder off the 680x0 line, which they did. They even rigged it so we can't EVER even get the v5 coldfires.
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Great Giana Sisters was allowed under the law. Parodies are a protected right and have been upheld in countless court cases. But that didn't stop Nintendo from crushing the Giana Sisters .
I don't believe Nintendo ever sued, they said they would if the game wasn't withdrawn. So the game was withdrawn. Parodies are only protected in the US, so Nintendo would probably have won.
Plus you have to word things carefully. And anyway he can't say anything about NES emu on kickstarter. Its an instant lawsuit from Nintendo. Even if the core exists and works perfectly he still can't say anything about it on kickstarter. Do u want him to get assasinated? :crazy:
That would be an interesting one.
1. They actively stop DS flash carts.
2. A lot of the NES games are available on Wii Virtual Console, so they could argue that it destroys revenue.
3. In the UK you aren't covered by any right to copy your NES cart onto different media, you technically require permission from the music company to rip your cd to play on your iPod. Some European countries do allow it, but not all. An individual is unlikely to get sued in the UK, because the court would see it as a waste of time. However going after someone who is profiting from copyright violations is possible. It wouldn't stop the kickstarter, but staying off the radar is probably a good idea to prevent import restrictions in various countries.
The landmark cases in emulation being legal are Sony VS Connectix, however Virtual Game Station was deemed legal because
1. it was in the US where you have fair use.
2. it had a legitimate use as the PC could play the game from an original CD.
It would be annoying if I couldn't buy one, in the same way I'm sure some people in the US are annoyed they can't buy from here http://www.originalstormtrooper.com/ For various reasons the guy who made the original storm trooper costumes can make reproductions and sell them in the UK, but he can't sell them in the US.
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rigged it so we can't EVER even get the v5 coldfires.
How?
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Apple actively wanted to murder off the 680x0 line, which they did.
Apple just wanted to be competitive with PC's.
Motorola had already decided that the PowerPC was their future for computers. The 680x0 ended up as their embedded offering, which mutated into coldfire.
I don't know why Motorola made coldfire incompatible with 68000, that is the only decision I can't understand.
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Coldfire is supposedly faster or could be clocked faster because some overhead was removed so that a more "raw" core remained. Corporate decisions are not known throughout the history for their wisdom ;)
(Like when Kodak decided to keep the digital camera technology only for their high end segment in order to preserve the lucrative film manufacture business, and were then competed into bankruptcy)
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Coldfire is supposedly faster or could be clocked faster because some overhead was removed so that a more "raw" core remained. Corporate decisions are not known throughout the history for their wisdom ;)
I can see why some things might be removed, but they'd kept their ISA pretty compatible for years and then just started reusing opcodes. Using previously unused opcodes for new instructions and causing removed opcodes to trigger an exception would have been more logical.
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started reusing opcodes
Ouch!
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@JimDrew
I'm a bit surprised no one ever sued you. I expect Apple was the most upset about an Amiga emulator with 68060 being faster than any Mac they sold for awhile. Did you feel like they deliberately added 68060 incompatibilities to MacOS 8.x roms to keep the 68060 from running? I have heard this rumor before and MacOS 7.x seems to be more compatible with the 68060.
Apple didn't have a problem with the emulation. I demostrated it to Scully and others at their facility in Cupertino. I was trying to get Apple to make ROMs available for sale (by them) to make it easier for emulations to be made. Their only concern was compatibility and how it was perceived. When I showed them the A4000 running circles around their Mac Quadras their concerns were centered around the fact the Amiga was a better architecture. :) But, at no time did they ever attempt to stop what I was doing.
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Their only concern was compatibility and how it was perceived. When I showed them the A4000 running circles around their Mac Quadras their concerns were centered around the fact the Amiga was a better architecture. :)
Perception, perception and looks. Guess that summarize Apple ;)
Next core: Macintosh Quadra 630 (68040 at 40 MHz) :D
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Coldfire is supposedly faster or could be clocked faster because some overhead was removed so that a more "raw" core remained. Corporate decisions are not known throughout the history for their wisdom ;)
Let me translate. Your "raw" really means "cheap". They made a cost and logic reduced version of the 68k for cheap microcontrollers and embedded systems. They gutted a lot of the power and ease of use of the 68k although they added a few nice instructions back. Some of the 68k simplifications they did are smart though. Dropping (trapping suffices) at least the outer displacement of double memory indirect modes makes sense for the decoder. Reducing instruction sizes is also a good idea although it can be done without hurting power, ease of use and code density. With just a little more logic (instead of a little less in the case of the ColdFire), instruction sizes can shrink while improving power and code density instead.
I can see why some things might be removed, but they'd kept their ISA pretty compatible for years and then just started reusing opcodes. Using previously unused opcodes for new instructions and causing removed opcodes to trigger an exception would have been more logical.
I don't agree. The ColdFire was incompatible from the beginning. The later changes to the ISA used unused 68k encoding space as I recall. I think Freescale tried to improve 68k compatibility with the ColdFire but they ruined it from the beginning by not making it compatible enough. They ran off most of the 68k supporters with incompatibility and poor performance. The early ColdFire processors were lack luster to say the least.
When I showed them the A4000 running circles around their Mac Quadras their concerns were centered around the fact the Amiga was a better architecture. :) But, at no time did they ever attempt to stop what I was doing.
I guess you worried them enough that they dropped the MacOS+68k and headed to greener pastures with OSX+PPC ;). Apple did change their minds about Mac clones so maybe that is when they decided to sabotage the ROM to not work on the 68060 8).
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Is there any MacOS-68k clone like AROS for AmigaOS ? ;)
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I guess you worried them enough that they dropped the MacOS+68k and headed to greener pastures with OSX+PPC ;). Apple did change their minds about Mac clones so maybe that is when they decided to sabotage the ROM to not work on the 68060 8).
Apple committed to PowerPC in 1991. They had already started shipping PowerPC machines by the time the Quadra 630 came out, they didn't just wake up one day and decide to switch.
Because Apple never shipped a 68060 based Apple and nobody produced an accelerator, it would be tricky for them to make sure it was compatible when making changes. Even if they suspected it wasn't compatible, then there would be no business case for making a best guess at trying to make it compatible. The programmers would never know if they were successful.
Mac clones were stopped when Steve Jobs came back. They did by releasing OS 8 as they'd only licensed OS 7 to the clone manufacturers. They did have to stop the clones as Apple's business model is based around overcharging for hardware, if others are cloning it and selling it cheaper then Apple would run out of money quick.
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Is there any MacOS-68k clone like AROS for AmigaOS ? ;)
Not that I'm aware of, but you used to be able to download and use some of the old versions of the 68k MacOS for free from the Apple web site. They included 7.5.5 and 7.6.1 which are probably the two best versions for speed and stability.
Apple committed to PowerPC in 1991. They had already started shipping PowerPC machines by the time the Quadra 630 came out, they didn't just wake up one day and decide to switch.
It was clear they were going to support the PPC but not clear that they would drop support for the 68k.
Because Apple never shipped a 68060 based Apple and nobody produced an accelerator, it would be tricky for them to make sure it was compatible when making changes. Even if they suspected it wasn't compatible, then there would be no business case for making a best guess at trying to make it compatible. The programmers would never know if they were successful.
MacOS 7 was compatible with the 68060 with few or no changes. MacOS 8 needed lots of fixes as I recall. It would have made good business sense if Apple had made a 68060 based laptop and used a 68k low end computer line while using PPC for the high end. Memory was still very expensive and the 68060 is a memory miser and watt miser, unlike the 68040 or PPC.
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I don't agree. The ColdFire was incompatible from the beginning. The later changes to the ISA used unused 68k encoding space as I recall.
I know coldfire was incompatible from the beginning, but for years Motorola had done their best to keep the 68000 ISA compatible across all their processors. Even the MOVE SR change can be emulated using a trap.
Lots of things were removed from coldfire, but if they'd just made those trap then apart from a speed drop there wouldn't be a problem. Some instructions on coldfire did something similar to 68000, so they used the same opcode. They should have trapped the original opcode and implemented it as a new instruction, made the implementation the same or implemented a mode where those instructions can be trapped or not.
It's annoying they didn't make it compatible, although whether it would have made them more money is another matter. So as a business decision it probably paid off, but they'll never know how many coldfires they could have sold to us now.
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I know coldfire was incompatible from the beginning, but for years Motorola had done their best to keep the 68000 ISA compatible across all their processors. Even the MOVE SR change can be emulated using a trap.
They did a good job although there was at least one incompatibility for properly written code when going from 68000 to 68020. I believe it was the way the auto increment works on the MOVEM instruction. Something like MOVEM.L SP,(SP)+ will behave differently on 68020 than 68000.
There is some dead encoding space that would benefit from reusing the encoding space which is limited without using A-line or F-line (reserved for trapping and coprocessors).
Lots of things were removed from coldfire, but if they'd just made those trap then apart from a speed drop there wouldn't be a problem. Some instructions on coldfire did something similar to 68000, so they used the same opcode. They should have trapped the original opcode and implemented it as a new instruction, made the implementation the same or implemented a mode where those instructions can be trapped or not.
Trapping non-longword aligned stack accesses would have gone a long way to help 68k compatibility. Most 68k instructions that were dropped can be trapped.
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ive never fully understood, why trapping substituted instructions have been impossible, but since everybody broke their teeth on it i guess its not worth to explain to noobs.
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I believe it was the way the auto increment works on the MOVEM instruction. Something like MOVEM.L SP,(SP)+ will behave differently on 68020 than 68000.
I'm not sure why anyone would do that.
Intel made the same change when pushing the stack pointer on the stack somewhere between the 8086 & 80386.
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ive never fully understood, why trapping substituted instructions have been impossible, but since everybody broke their teeth on it i guess its not worth to explain to noobs.
They also removed some that we use a lot. On these it will trigger an exception that you can trap. Trapping the missing ones is too slow, making the CPU upgrade become a downgrade.
There are instructions that look like a certain 68k instruction that actually do something different on the Coldfire. There's no way to tell when you hit one of these instructions because it is a valid Coldfire instruction, so your program just does the wrong thing with no way to fix it.
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They also removed some that we use a lot. On these it will trigger an exception that you can trap. Trapping the missing ones is too slow, making the CPU upgrade become a downgrade.
That's a good point. Even if 100% 68k compatibility through trapping was possible on the ColdFire, it would be very slow. That's why programs like Oxypatcher and Cyberpatcher replace instructions before they are trapped. The net effect is that emulation would probably be similar speed with the number of trapped 68k instructions on the ColdFire. Emulation speed would be helped a lot by having similar instructions but then much faster CPUs than ColdFire are available for emulation. The only reasonable use I see for a ColdFire Amiga solution would be a CFv4+fpga using the CF SoC I/O capabilities which are low end but cheap. The CF CPU could be used for basic service operations much as the fpgaArcade uses the ARM CPU.
There are instructions that look like a certain 68k instruction that actually do something different on the Coldfire. There's no way to tell when you hit one of these instructions because it is a valid Coldfire instruction, so your program just does the wrong thing with no way to fix it.
There really aren't very many conflicting encodings. DIVSL/DIVUL<->REMS/REMU is the only integer one I know of in user mode. The ColdFire instruction only returns 1 of 2 registers that the 68k does. I have studied this extensively as I even wrote a new 68k compatible ISA that adds many ColdFire instructions. MVS, MVZ, BYTEREV, BITREV, FF1, SATS have no 68k ColdFire conflicts. MOV3Q and the MAC instructions use A-line which doesn't conflict but the 68k doesn't use. CF TPF is 68k TRAPF.
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Coldfire is another dead end. If someone ever gets the money, do a run of 75mhz 68060. You should be able to get close to 10,000 people wanting one.
I like the discussion over at 060 replacement. Sooner or later more of the Amiga hardware will start dying. Without a modern replacement, hardware collectors will become brick collectors.
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Perhaps the prices for an ASIC spin has sunken?
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That's why programs like Oxypatcher and Cyberpatcher replace instructions before they are trapped.
I'm pretty sure they replace the instructions after they are trapped the first time, not before. Hitting one trapped instruction is not a big deal, it's when you hit one every time through a loop.
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Perhaps the prices for an ASIC spin has sunken?
The community could partner with a company that makes embedded processors like the makers of the 68k Fido which probably started as an fpga CPU and was turned into an ASIC. We would still need to develop and fully debug a 68k fpga CPU before we turned it into an ASIC. A CPU designed to be efficient in an ASIC is a little slower in fpga but easier to create and maintain. A community Kickstarter project could help fund the ASIC creation by the business. By the way, the AmigaOS would need substantial changes to run on the FIDO which is more compatible than the ColdFire and very "responsive" but only 66MHz.
I'm pretty sure they replace the instructions after they are trapped the first time, not before. Hitting one trapped instruction is not a big deal, it's when you hit one every time through a loop.
That's how they work which is more prone to problems than trapping while still not full speed. The missing instructions on the 68060 are, by default, trapped every time using the 68060.library.
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Some good news. All the components are in place now and I'm paying the bill.
The last parts should join the PCBs within two weeks, and I am hoping they can get them built before the China spring festival holiday. I should get boards by end Feb.
This is a big step forward as I can now remotely order and build as many as I want. This will also mean the daughterboard can go directly into volume production.
/MikeJ
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Is the PCB layout and BOM for the daughterboard complete at this time?
(production complete that is)
What's the minimum batch you can order?
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ive never fully understood, why trapping substituted instructions have been impossible, but since everybody broke their teeth on it i guess its not worth to explain to noobs.
Traps are REALLY slow. The Mac OS is run on traps. I patched the crap out of the OS so that it used jumps in place of traps - and that is how I was able to dramatically increase the speed of the Mac OS... well, that and better hardware. :)
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Some good news. All the components are in place now and I'm paying the bill.
The last parts should join the PCBs within two weeks, and I am hoping they can get them built before the China spring festival holiday. I should get boards by end Feb.
This is a big step forward as I can now remotely order and build as many as I want. This will also mean the daughterboard can go directly into volume production.
/MikeJ
Great Mike! Let me know as soon as I can get a dev board! Thanks!
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Some good news. All the components are in place now and I'm paying the bill.
The last parts should join the PCBs within two weeks, and I am hoping they can get them built before the China spring festival holiday. I should get boards by end Feb.
This is a big step forward as I can now remotely order and build as many as I want. This will also mean the daughterboard can go directly into volume production.
/MikeJ
Whoaw,
Good news MikeJ your almost there :-)
I hope you sell lots of them, i'm still happy with one of your first promo boards :-)
Also i hope the daughterboard's will be made soon, still want one with 060 CPU
Keep up the good work and congratulations on the well done project
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Great news! Can't wait to get one.
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mikej,
Thank you very much for this update, it's great news!
I'm just wondering how many units you have on the preorder list, you mentioned earlier that you're able to assemble 100 units and I just wanted to estimate how much time it can take to ship the hardware to the people in the end of the queue. Thanks for the info -- if possible of course. Good luck with things!
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Some good news. All the components are in place now and I'm paying the bill.
The last parts should join the PCBs within two weeks, and I am hoping they can get them built before the China spring festival holiday. I should get boards by end Feb.
This is a big step forward as I can now remotely order and build as many as I want. This will also mean the daughterboard can go directly into volume production.
/MikeJ
Woohoo! Congratulations Mike :)
Well done on getting it all into production!
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That's how they work which is more prone to problems than trapping while still not full speed. The missing instructions on the 68060 are, by default, trapped every time using the 68060.library.
The solutions are just as good now as they were in the 90's & I don't recall people refusing to buy 68060 boards back then.
Back then you could always recompile your software for 68060 (or even 68000) and then it won't trap, backward compatibility is worth a little slow down.
For coldfire a mode that trapped on any instruction that wasn't compatible with 68000 would have been enough, but they didn't care about the market.
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The solutions are just as good now as they were then & I don't recall people refusing to buy 68060 boards back then.
And if a game doesn't want to run correctly on the FPGA Arcade with the 68060 then it could always be run using the soft core CPU.
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And if a game doesn't want to run correctly on the FPGA Arcade with the 68060 then it could always be run using the soft core CPU.
or possibly WHDLOAD.
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or possibly WHDLOAD.
and that too :)
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I'm just wondering how many units you have on the preorder list, you mentioned earlier that you're able to assemble 100 units and I just wanted to estimate how much time it can take to ship the hardware to the people in the end of the queue. Thanks for the info -- if possible of course. Good luck with things!
I would be interested in the same too :)
mikej, can you tell us how long is your 'e-mail list', how many pre-orders do you have at the moment?
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@mikej:
ive seen fpgaarcade testers complaining about compatibility earlier in the thread. i wonder if your fpga core is based on minimig, since there is an effort to fix the minimig core to maximal compatibility, led by boing4000 here:
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=593283#post593283
its a german forum but you might contact him for assistance.
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Hi ;)
Effectively, there are still some compatibility issues with the current firmware, but don't forget that this one (the only one beta testers have) is dated from more than one year !
Boing4000 is doing a great work on the Minimig's core but only Mike can let him working on the FPGA Arcade board's firmware.
I'm also waiting from Mike the new firmware version for testing it anf putting some new videos of it on my personnal webserver HERE (http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/).
Thanks to Mike and Jakub for their awesome work on this wonderful board !
Faranheit
Mike is on the final line for production and tests.
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The main part of the Amiga core is Minimig derived, but rapidly diverging.
I have had some contact with Boing4000 and will incorporate any fixes which are common.
/Mike
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Apple didn't have a problem with the emulation. I demostrated it to Scully and others at their facility in Cupertino. I was trying to get Apple to make ROMs available for sale (by them) to make it easier for emulations to be made. Their only concern was compatibility and how it was perceived. When I showed them the A4000 running circles around their Mac Quadras their concerns were centered around the fact the Amiga was a better architecture. :) But, at no time did they ever attempt to stop what I was doing.
@JimDrew -
Oh, wow, you're THAT Jim Drew? There's a name I hadn't heard of in a long time. Really missing my Amiga days...
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I really like the new design of your web site, Mike :)
http://fpgaarcade.com/dev/drupal/
It just need some content, too.
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Is this ready for shipping now, Faranheit?
http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/FPGA%20Arcade%20Boards%20and%20Accessories%20Prices%20List.pdf
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060/Ethernet/USB Daughter Board coming in 2012 !
Maybe not? ;)
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Hi;
Oups, effectively ;)
Thanks for the notice, I'll change this.
For the moment, until Mike is 100% satisfied of his new firmware, no boards will be shipped, as he has said it before ;)
It's overall for pre-orderers ;)
Thanks, Faranheit
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The main part of the Amiga core is Minimig derived, but rapidly diverging.
I have had some contact with Boing4000 and will incorporate any fixes which are common.
/Mike
I've merged in the latest changes (mainly audio fix) and I'll ship a board of to Boing4000 for development.
/MikeJ
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@mikej:
I've merged in the latest changes (mainly audio fix) and I'll ship a board of to Boing4000 for development.
great! will be following what boing will have to report on a1k!
meanwhile have you heard of this attempted italian fpga project:
http://www.tinaproject.it/
http://forum.tinaproject.it/
admittedly it doesnt look like much yet, but ive heard the guy behind it has a company that is going to carry part of the designing and manufacturing effort as a side project of a design they are working on anyway. ive been told they tried to contact you. i know there is both sides to that coin. still if its serious and some cooperative appointment profitable for both sides and the community could be found it would be worth a try. i proposed they might provide an fpgaarcade daughter board for a faster fpga core, which though isnt exactly the thing they are interested in i guess. i dont know, but maybe sharing 68k-emu and chipset-emu code could be of value. just a thought.
btw cesare di mauro accused of criticism towards os4 and ppc in this quarrel thread and responding there is apparently going to be involved with that tina project:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=37178&forum=33&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0
i recommend this lecture only after work!! dont get side tracked.
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@JimDrew -
Oh, wow, you're THAT Jim Drew? There's a name I hadn't heard of in a long time. Really missing my Amiga days...
LOL.... yep, it's me.. and I am back into producing new (and some old) products for Commodore computers. I am looking forward to doing some FPGA work too.
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If I have asked this already then nvm, but:
Has the board been designed for easy and frequent FPGA updates? I'd rather not be a disc-jockey (card-jockey?) if I ever try developing something. Thx.
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I've merged in the latest changes (mainly audio fix)
Mike, what was the problem with audio?
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In audio.v
Changelog:
"// Silences audio channel when replen is 1 - fix for Gods jump noise."
I haven't verified the fault or fix yet. The link to the code is posted slightly earlier in this thread.
I'm going to send you a complete WIP snapshot as soon as it is stable.
Cheers,
Mike
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The problem was that, in GODS, certain sound effects left a high pitch sound playing after they finished. It also happened in other games.
MMrobinsonb5 from http://www.retroramblings.net fixed it. It was supposed to be a temporal fix until a better sigma-delta filter was implemented.
More on it here:
http://minimig.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=516
It's a long thread, but the last pages have very good information on the problem.
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The problem was that, in GODS, certain sound effects left a high pitch sound playing after they finished. It also happened in other games.
MMrobinsonb5 from http://www.retroramblings.net fixed it. It was supposed to be a temporal fix until a better sigma-delta filter was implemented.
More on it here:
http://minimig.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=516
It's a long thread, but the last pages have very good information on the problem.
Thanks for that, very useful.
The Replay core may not suffer this problem, we have a 24bit DAC hanging off the FPGA. If the error is a result of the delta-sigma converter then I won't see it.
I'll run some simulations and see if the silence change is necessary.
Boing can run some tests on the Replay core when he gets the board.
Best,
Mike
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I've merged in the latest changes (mainly audio fix) and I'll ship a board of to Boing4000 for development.
/MikeJ
Does that mean the rest of us beta board users can expect a new core to play with? I'm off work in a week and I'll have 7 days off... hint, hint. ;)
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I really hope so...
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I really hope so...
Dancing banana time!!! :)
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When can the average person, such as myself :) , get their hands on the board?
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Dancing banana time!!! :)
Sounds Good to me ;-)
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When can the average person, such as myself :) , get their hands on the board?
A couple of weeks/months/year?
It's a spare time project. But it is however evolving :)
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If I have asked this already then nvm, but:
Has the board been designed for easy and frequent FPGA updates? I'd rather not be a disc-jockey (card-jockey?) if I ever try developing something. Thx.
I think you just need to update the files on the SD-card and of you go at next boot :)
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In a word yes.
I need to sync up with Jakub exactly how we merge our code together.
Lots of boards are arriving shortly - they are being assembled now but the big China holiday is close which could mean a delay to end Feb.
I have new bootloader for the ARM SW which lets you re-flash over USB - holding the menu button when powering on puts it in this mode.
For the cores they are just files on the SD card. For development I use a download cable connected to the JTAG header. The ARM will re-init the board and file system if the chip is reprogrammed, so I can build and test very rapidly now without taking the SD card out.
Most of the IO is new and generic, including the full colour OSD, audio/video interfaces and PS2 (which is now controlled by a tiny soft micro-controller).
I am also modifying the menu system so firmware options are loaded from an ini file - this is necessary for multi-platform support (and the Atari ST is next)....
Finally I have a USB adapter which is soldered on in place of the PS2 connector. This has a VNC2 chip and adds one internal and one external USB port. Hubs, mouse and keyboard are currently supported. This is working on the dev board and the real PCB should be here tomorrow.
/MikeJ
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Hi Mike ;)
I hope receiving the new firmware sooner for making some new videos of it and making them available on my webserver and dropbox ;)
Thanks to you and Jakub for all your hard work !
Great to see Boing4000 will be able to test and program for your firmware ;)
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The ARM will re-init the board and file system if the chip is reprogrammed, so I can build and test very rapidly now without taking the SD card out.
Does this mean that if you saved anything on a virtual .ADF floppy on the flashcard those contents will be lost at re-init?
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Finally I have a USB adapter which is soldered on in place of the PS2 connector. This has a VNC2 chip and adds one internal and one external USB port. Hubs, mouse and keyboard are currently supported. This is working on the dev board and the real PCB should be here tomorrow.
Is it possible for my beta board to get the hardware updates aswell ?
//Espen
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Does this mean that if you saved anything on a virtual .ADF floppy on the flashcard those contents will be lost at re-init?
No, nothing lost!
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Is it possible for my beta board to get the hardware updates aswell ?
//Espen
Yes - but removing the PS2 connector is a bit tough. If you have a good soldering iron you can try cutting the connector off then pulling each pin out in turn.
Or, you can return the board to me for this update.
/MikeJ
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Yes - but removing the PS2 connector is a bit tough. If you have a good soldering iron you can try cutting the connector off then pulling each pin out in turn.
Or, you can return the board to me for this update.
/MikeJ
I might take you up on that later in the year when I go on one of my month-long business trips.
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Has there been any damage or failures when connecting or disconnecting devices when the FPGA Arcade is powered?
-
Yes - but removing the PS2 connector is a bit tough. If you have a good soldering iron you can try cutting the connector off then pulling each pin out in turn.
Or, you can return the board to me for this update.
/MikeJ
Or use solder tin sucker for removing the solder :-)
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Has there been any damage or failures when connecting or disconnecting devices when the FPGA Arcade is powered?
No, the PS2 ports have a resistor between the FPGA and the connector which limits the current. This is a necessary to get 5V toll (sort of), but has the side affect of protecting the FPGA a bit. There are protection diodes on the video interfaces as well.
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Or use solder tin sucker for removing the solder :-)
Possible, but it's a six layer board and it's tricky to get it hot enough.
I cut the pins, remove each one in turn by heating the pin and pulling it with pliers, then when cleaning the hole up with solder wick.
/Mike
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Hi all :)
This is a new video made by Yakub demonstrating the 060 daughter board speed with Shapeshifter :
Youtube Video Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ug4_yh3Q288)
I hope it will be available sooner ;)
Other videos of the FPGA Arcade board demonstrating the new firmware (without 060 daughter board) will be done in one or 2 weeks and will be available on my personnal web Here (http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/)
Thanks to Mike and Jakub for their awesome work ;)
Faranheit
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thats "Jakub" in polish.
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I want to marry Yaqub's 060 Daughter board. :D
I hope my bank account is big enough to afford her. :D
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I hear she might have some sisters. I'll be happy to take the ugly one
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@ ChaosLord
You hope your what is big enough for her?!
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@Darrin
:rofl:
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Niice!
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I want to marry Yaqub's 060 Daughter board.
She's a real Faaasssttt... nasty beast :-)
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060 is nice and all, but I'd rather take a daughterboard with local ram and an FPGA on.
I hope y'all have a goal of eventually outgunning an 060 with a 680x0 FPGA implementation. Giving the 060 its own local memory will give it a big advantage compared to having only (fast, but still) chip/slow/ranger memory.
-
but the daughterboard comes with local memory, doesnt it?
-
but the daughterboard comes with local memory, doesnt it?
Yes, it does. There is 128 MB of SDRAM on the daughterboard.
-
yaqube, when do you expect the daughterboard to go into production?
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yaqube, when do you expect the daughterboard to go into production?
March.
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oh, perfect! then i will hopefully have the cash!
what is the estimated price?
-
You guys ever thought about joining forces with Loriano and offering a complete system for sale when everything is done?
-
You guys ever thought about joining forces with Loriano and offering a complete system for sale when everything is done?
I haven't been able to find any prices on this. From the estimates I have seen online, it's going to be a lot more expensive than a regular MiniMig, right?
The price I saw somewhere was something like 600 Euro, is that correct? That would work out to over $800 CAD for me. Yikes!
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Yes, it does. There is 128 MB of SDRAM on the daughterboard.
I want one with at least 256 MB
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Where can one buy a complete system built around an FPGA Replay board now?
I want something to be a plug-n-play system, since I'm not a coder or computer engineer. Thanks.
-
I want one with at least 256 MB
I want one with 2GB. But we only get what they give us. :)
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I want one with at least 256 MB
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I think we can use the 64MB~ on the base board as well as the 128MB on the expansion, giving us a total of 192MB~.
Where can one buy a complete system built around an FPGA Replay board now? Thanks.
Just a few pages back
http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/FPGA%20Arcade%20Boards%20and%20Accessories%20Prices%20List.pdf
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but the daughterboard comes with local memory, doesnt it?
Yes. But any 680x0 implementation stuck on the non-daughterboard FPGA have to fight the chipset for memory access.
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Yes. But any 680x0 implementation stuck on the non-daughterboard FPGA have to fight the chipset for memory access.
where is such an implementation in first place? what are you complaining about?
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I want one with at least 256 MB
this is no ppc, you know.. ive run owb on my a4k and didnt run out of 128mb fastmem, though ive run out of 4meg vmem on cv64 multiple times as it looks like. fpgaarcade solves this as it seems.
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I haven't been able to find any prices on this. From the estimates I have seen online, it's going to be a lot more expensive than a regular MiniMig, right?
The price I saw somewhere was something like 600 Euro, is that correct? That would work out to over $800 CAD for me. Yikes!
The aim is just to recover the costs. The base board without svhs/composite target is 199Euro + VAT. I need to do the maths of the final production cost and tax / exchange rates, but it's looking promising. As volume increases the price will come down a little.
The daughterboard (sans processor) is going to be cheaper, but I don't have production pricing yet as the spec is still slightly up in the air.
/MikeJ
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where is such an implementation in first place? what are you complaining about?
?
I am not complaining, I am wishing. Any type of Amiga without >1 memory bus behaves just like the original A1000 in that the cpu has to wait for the custom chips.
I wish to see a daughtercard like the 060 one, but with an FPGA instead.
-
?
I am not complaining, I am wishing. Any type of Amiga without >1 memory bus behaves just like the original A1000 in that the cpu has to wait for the custom chips.
I wish to see a daughtercard like the 060 one, but with an FPGA instead.
Maybe the the existing daughtercard will work with the Motorola 68060 FPGA replacement module from this thread :)
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63800
I think it will void your warrantee :)
I will be happy with an 060 which is a fine CPU even at 50mhz in my 1200.
I am unclear at this point if I should be obtaining my own 68060 CPU if I intend of getting the FPGA Replay board and daughter-board.
thanks
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Okay, I've just recently dropped into this thread and done some searching on the internet to see if I could get some FPGA Replay newbie questions answered, but didn't find much about this RTG 060 thing. I couldn't find a FAQ, for instance, that dealt with what we are discussing here.
So what exactly are we talking about in this thread here? Some sort of hardware attachment that goes onto the FPGA arcade replay to enable it to be an AGA 060 RTG Amiga?
Please bear with me, as I'm just trying to get the basic info sorted out from a 150 page thread.
I hear all this talk about a "daughterboard" but I don't know what that is in this context. I thought the FPGA was already a device that could be reprogrammed to be any sort of early computer, using different "cores"? Right? Why, then would it need a daughterboard?
Without this daughterboard, the FPGA Arcade can already turn itself into an ECS A500 with the regular MiniMig core. Right?
Now, someone is writing a new AGA core that will also allow RTG. Right?
But...to enable it to have a super 68060, you need to purchase some sort of daughter card? Am I in the ballpark?
Does the daughter card need a real 68060 chip? Does it come with one? Do you need to purchase the 68060 separately? I thought these were hard to find and expensive nowadays? Can it do the 060 in FPGA?
I'm not really clear on why the FPGA Arcade, which already seems very capable, would need any attachment hardware to make it become an AGA Amiga.
Sorry for all the basic questions. If someone could just send me in the direction of a FAQ that would be helpful.
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@ Ral-Clan:
You're getting a little confused with all of the different postings.
The FPGA Arcade works as an AGA Amiga by itself and will have RTG, 64MB RAM, SD card slot (for HDF and ADF files). The CPU however will be a softcore 68020 running at whatever speed they can squeeze out of it. It will also be able to boot different cores to turn it into other computers/arcade games.
The daughterboard is for those people who want to "smell the rubber". It will add an additional 128MB RAM, Ethernet, USB, Micro SD card slot (which will act as another hard drive without using a HDF file) and add a socket where you can use a real 68060 processor (plus some other stuff).
So, think of the bare board as an A1200 on steroids with a faster CPU, extra RAM, scan doubler, RTG and a hard drive. Then think of the daughter board as a kick-ass trapdoor expansion.
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Ah, thanks Darrin, that clears things up nicely.
I'd be interested in seeing the speed difference between the bare FPGA and one with the daughter board...i.e. AIBB.
Just where are people expected to get the 68060 chips for the daughter board, nowadays?
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So where/when can i get my hands on one of these babies? I want one.
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Ah, thanks Darrin, that clears things up nicely.
I'd be interested in seeing the speed difference between the bare FPGA and one with the daughter board...i.e. AIBB.
Just where are people expected to get the 68060 chips for the daughter board, nowadays?
I guess some people will have broken CPU cards. Mike is/has tried to source some from China, but they're often not what they appear to be and have fake markings on them.
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@Ral-Clan :
If you want to make your own opinion on different speed between the base FPGA Arcade board and the daughter board, there are two videos which will certainly be interested for you :
- FPGA Arcade base board in action (http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/FPGA%20Arcade%20In%20Action/)
- Daughter board in action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_!embed!ded&v=Ug4_yh3Q288).
And don't hesitate to take a look at my personnal webserver (http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/) for other informations ;)
Thanks, Faranheit :)
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Oh Fiddlestix!
How can I play Stunt Car Racer datalinked between 2 machines with an FPGA Arcade? It needs a compatible serial port.
How can I play any of the great 4 player games? 4 player games require the 4 player adapter which plugs into the Parallel port.
Is FPGA Arcade more of a "Business Machine Amiga" that has lost a lot of its gaming abilities?
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Oh Fiddlestix!
How can I play Stunt Car Racer datalinked between 2 machines with an FPGA Arcade? It needs a compatible serial port.
How can I play any of the great 4 player games? 4 player games require the 4 player adapter which plugs into the Parallel port.
whdload is starting to work with usb enabled on a lot of games, so maybe those games could use USB->serial/parallel with a patch?
i think those ports would go unused most of the time... it think parallel needs +12v as well.
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Oh Fiddlestix!
How can I play Stunt Car Racer datalinked between 2 machines with an FPGA Arcade? It needs a compatible serial port.
How can I play any of the great 4 player games? 4 player games require the 4 player adapter which plugs into the Parallel port.
And what's more, where can you find 3 other Amiga users in a small place like Texas! ;)
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Oh Fiddlestix!
How can I play Stunt Car Racer datalinked between 2 machines with an FPGA Arcade? It needs a compatible serial port.
Well, I've already been told that there will be a serial port compatible with MIDI interfaces a few pages back in this thread (I assume original Amiga MIDI interfaces, I didn't get an answer when I asked that)....so half of your problem is solved.
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@Ral-Clan :
If you want to make your own opinion on different speed between the base FPGA Arcade board and the daughter board, there are two videos which will certainly be interested for you...
Thanks. Soooo....in the first video you are running an AGA '020 core?
I didn't think the AGA 020 core had been publicly released yet.
Second video was good, but I'd like to see some Amiga stuff running on the 060 daughterboard.
I'd really love to see a benchmark utility compare the AGA '020 core with the '060 daughterboard (and both to a regular A4000/040).
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I aggree with Darrin -- serial link is likely a feature not much needed anymore. Back in the days when "everyone" had an Amiga, we could link with our friends. Now we are a minority and is unlikely to find someone to link with within the range of the capabilities of a serial cable :)
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Hi Ral-clan:
on the second video, Jakub has show sysinfo so you can compare it to a real A4000/40.
In the first video, I use the AGA core since I launch a CD32 game !
Thanks, Faranheit
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Well, I've already been told that there will be a serial port compatible with MIDI interfaces a few pages back in this thread (I assume original Amiga MIDI interfaces, I didn't get an answer when I asked that)
The serial port is compatible with Amiga baudrates including the one used by MIDI. Since our board is very small there was no place to put an old-fasion 25-pin serial port connector. We have just put its 9-pin counterpart.
So you cannot connect directly your old MIDI interface, you need to change plugs.
There is another drawback, the 9-pin connector doesn't carry +/-12 Volt power. If your MIDI interface needs it, it should be sourced externally.
When the daughterboard is ready we will think about making a dedicated MIDI interface for our board so your life will be easier.
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Second video was good, but I'd like to see some Amiga stuff running on the 060 daughterboard.
What kind of stuff do you want to see? Just tell us and we will see what we can do.
I'd really love to see a benchmark utility compare the AGA '020 core with the '060 daughterboard (and both to a regular A4000/040).
There was published a screenshot of SysInfo running on my board with TG68K core at 28.36 MHz with data and instruction caches. The performance is comparable with 030@50MHz.
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What kind of stuff do you want to see? Just tell us and we will see what we can do.
There was published a screenshot of SysInfo running on my board with TG68K core at 28.36 MHz with data and instruction caches. The performance is comparable with 030@50MHz.
I'd love to see ImageFX, DeluxePaint and Lightwave or some other renderer being tested. Some MIDI software like Bars & Pipes would also be useful.
-
for me a paralell port is very high up on the list as i want to be able to use my sampler.
are there any non paralell port samplers for the amiga?
-
would one of those usb to parport adapters work?
the stack used is poseidon, right?
the poseidon site has the following info on parport adapters:
Printers All printers can be interfaced through an usbparallel.device, specific printer drivers available from third parties printer.class (included)
has anyone tried this with a sampler?
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would one of those usb to parport adapters work?
No.
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what kind of stuff do you want to see? Just tell us and we will see what we can do.
AB3D II The Killing Grounds !!! :)
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mongo: ouch. shame. :/
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AB3D II The Killing Grounds !!! :)
yes, this would be certainly an interesting testcase.
and sysspeed instead of sysinfo.
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Why is "AB3D II The Killing Grounds" such a good testing software? ;)
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Could someone please please run bustest on FCGA Replay and post the results?
This is the single best testing proggy for Amiga:
http://aminet.net/package/util/moni/bustest (http://aminet.net/package/util/moni/bustest)
It produces results in plain text format.
You must state the screenmode that you were displaying when running the test.
I would like to see the results when running bustest in 640x512x256 color mode. This will clearly show me how much faster a Replay is over a real Amiga.
Move.l FTW!
Thanx!
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Why is "AB3D II The Killing Grounds" such a good testing software? ;)
it never ran on full speed.
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@ChaosLord:
Result of BusTest on the FPGA Arcade base board with original firmware (not the new one) :
Commande 'BusTest fast chip rom'
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
========================================================================
memtype addr op cycle calib bandwidth
fast $01138000 readw 350.6 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 readl 523.8 ns normal 7.6 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 readm 421.8 ns normal 9.5 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 writew 350.4 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 writel 520.4 ns normal 7.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 writem 424.7 ns normal 9.4 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 readw 350.6 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 readl 524.1 ns normal 7.6 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 readm 421.8 ns normal 9.5 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 writew 350.1 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 writel 520.7 ns normal 7.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 writem 424.7 ns normal 9.4 * 10^6 byte/s
rom $00F80000 readw 350.3 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
rom $00F80000 readl 524.1 ns normal 7.6 * 10^6 byte/s
rom $00F80000 readm 421.7 ns normal 9.5 * 10^6 byte/s
Workbench 3.1 and PAL HiRes Interlaced 640x512 256 Colors installed on a 999MB HDF File used for test.
Kickstart 3.1 and Chipset AGA, 68020 at 50MHz, 2MB Chip and 59MB Fast ram, 4 floppy drives activated.
For Alien Breed 3D 2 aga, it's playable at 50MHz speed (like on a real 030/25MHz Amiga), it's smooth at 99MHz.
Thanks, Faranheit
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Why is "AB3D II The Killing Grounds" such a good testing software? ;)
It's the slowest thing I have ever seen on my Amiga :)
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@ChaosLord:
Result of BusTest on the FPGA Arcade base board with original firmware (not the new one) :
Commande 'BusTest fast chip rom'
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
========================================================================
memtype addr op cycle calib bandwidth
fast $01138000 readw 350.6 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 readl 523.8 ns normal 7.6 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 readm 421.8 ns normal 9.5 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 writew 350.4 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 writel 520.4 ns normal 7.7 * 10^6 byte/s
fast $01138000 writem 424.7 ns normal 9.4 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 readw 350.6 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 readl 524.1 ns normal 7.6 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 readm 421.8 ns normal 9.5 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 writew 350.1 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 writel 520.7 ns normal 7.7 * 10^6 byte/s
chip $000B8000 writem 424.7 ns normal 9.4 * 10^6 byte/s
rom $00F80000 readw 350.3 ns normal 5.7 * 10^6 byte/s
rom $00F80000 readl 524.1 ns normal 7.6 * 10^6 byte/s
rom $00F80000 readm 421.7 ns normal 9.5 * 10^6 byte/s
Workbench 3.1 and PAL HiRes Interlaced 640x512 256 Colors installed on a 999MB HDF File used for test.
Kickstart 3.1 and Chipset AGA, 68020 at 50MHz, 2MB Chip and 59MB Fast ram, 4 floppy drives activated.
For Alien Breed 3D 2 aga, it's playable at 50MHz speed (like on a real 030/25MHz Amiga), it's smooth at 99MHz.
Thanks, Faranheit
The old core does not have cache/pre-fetch running as is not using the dedicated memory channel for RTG. It will be slow ....
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The old core does not have cache/pre-fetch running as is not using the dedicated memory channel for RTG. It will be slow ....
I'm looking forward to reading about all the new features in the new core, once it is available. Dedicated memory channel for RTG, for example.
-
There's only only one memory channel physically asfair? and the other possible one is CPU<->fastmem on daughterboard. Provided you have a physical CPU inserted.
-
The old core does not have cache/pre-fetch running as is not using the dedicated memory channel for RTG. It will be slow ....
Could you cook up a version of the core that had more bandwidth for the chipram?
Lots of games use the CPU for blitting since 1990 and they need faster chipram speed.
For example if all the orginal 64MB was used as chipram and ALL the 28MB/sec of bandwidth went for that then it would be really kewl! Plenty of ppl would like that. Maybe this would only work when using the Daughterboard.
It could be the "AGA Optimized" core that ppl could use when playing AGA games.
The "RTG Core" (with the dedicated RTG memory channel) could be the normal core that ppl use as default.
-
I think the basic problem is that CPU + custom chips share the same memory interface. And the screen updates need a constant amount of bit per second.
-
AB3D II The Killing Grounds !!! :)
Maybe some NovaCoder's stuff like his Quake I or Quake II port for AGA.
-
Although there is only one physical DRAM interface, the current core uses it as a single random access memory. As long as the address(es) are in a separate physical bank inside the memory it is possible to effectively do several reads at the same time. So, for the display controller it can bust read memory at the same time as the CPU without impacting its performance.
A clever memory controller will automatically open as many banks as possible at the same time, so by careful address mapping of chip / fast regions we could speed things up.
/MikeJ
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I have made some tests using bustest and my A4000 and both of my Replay boards (Rev.A with daughterboard and standard Rev.B). What do you think?
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
memtype op A4K PAL A4K VGA A4K RTG RP PAL RP VGA 060 PAL 060 VGA 060 RTG
fast readw 33.7 33.6 33.7 20.9 19.4 52.9 52.3 52.8
fast readl 39.6 39.2 39.5 28.4 28.2 60.2 60.5 60.3
fast readm 39.5 39.6 39.4 29.3 29.2 60.7 60.7 59.7
fast writew 27.7 27.4 27.6 5.8 4.7 49.3 48.8 49.0
fast writel 27.5 27.6 27.6 7.7 6.2 48.6 49.1 48.6
fast writem 27.6 27.7 27.5 10.9 8.3 49.3 48.9 48.7
chip readw 1.7 0.7 2.3 5.8 4.7 7.1 7.1 7.1
chip readl 3.4 1.4 4.7 7.7 6.2 14.1 14.1 14.1
chip readm 3.4 1.4 4.7 10.9 8.3 14.1 14.1 14.1
chip writew 2.4 1.1 3.5 5.8 4.7 11.7 8.9 14.0
chip writel 4.8 2.2 7.0 7.7 6.2 23.1 17.7 27.9
chip writem 4.8 2.2 7.0 10.9 8.3 23.1 17.9 27.9
rom readw 33.5 33.7 33.7 20.9 19.4 52.6 52.9 52.5
rom readl 39.5 39.4 39.4 28.4 28.2 60.0 60.1 60.5
rom readm 39.3 39.2 39.0 29.3 29.2 60.7 60.3 60.5
A4K - A4000 w/ CS MKII 060 60MHz + 128MB 60ns DRAM + Picasso IV
RP - Replay w/ Minimig AGA core + TG68K 28MHz dcache/icache + 8MB FAST RAM
060 - Replay w/ Minimig AGA/RTG core + Rev.6 68060 106MHz + 128MB 53MHz SDRAM
PAL - 640x512x256 (PAL High Res Laced)
VGA - 640x480x256 (Productivity)
RTG - 1024x768x256
-
Damn!
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@yaqube
impressive values! I would love that the 060 board included some kind of SATA port but USB2 will be better than nothing :-)
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I have made some tests using bustest and my A4000 and both of my Replay boards (Rev.A with daughterboard and standard Rev.B). What do you think?
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
memtype op A4K PAL A4K VGA A4K RTG RP PAL RP VGA 060 PAL 060 VGA 060 RTG
fast readl 39.6 39.2 39.5 28.4 28.2 60.2 60.5 60.3
fast writel 27.5 27.6 27.6 7.7 6.2 48.6 49.1 48.6
chip writel 4.8 2.2 7.0 7.7 6.2 23.1 17.7 27.9
A4K - A4000 w/ CS MKII 060 60MHz + 128MB 60ns DRAM + Picasso IV
RP - Replay w/ Minimig AGA core + TG68K 28MHz dcache/icache + 8MB FAST RAM
060 - Replay w/ Minimig AGA/RTG core + Rev.6 68060 106MHz + 128MB 53MHz SDRAM
PAL - 640x512x256 (PAL High Res Laced)
VGA - 640x480x256 (Productivity)
RTG - 1024x768x256
Woohoo! I can easily attain triple speed AGA blitting on a Replay+Daughtercard!
Copy MyBankAccount:#? ALL FORCE QUICK to Yaqube:BankAccount/
I noticed you listed VGA mode times. Is that the way to get flickerfree AGA gfx on a replay? To use DoublePAL, DoubleNTSC or VGA modes?
Luckily my gamecode already supports both PAL and DoublePAL even though DoublePAL is mostly useless on a real A1200.
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Copy MyBankAccount:#? ALL FORCE QUICK to Yaqube:BankAccount/
Hahaha! Nice to see I'm not the only who loves AmigaDOS (not WB) around here :D
I always wondered why the Los Gatos team decided to include connectives in commands like "from", "to", etc... it makes AmigaDOS a very fun yet easy DOS to use. My favorite over Linux and Risc OS.
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I noticed you listed VGA mode times. Is that the way to get flickerfree AGA gfx on a replay? To use DoublePAL, DoubleNTSC or VGA modes?
Yes, all programmable modes like DoublePal, DoubleNTSC, Multiscan etc are supported.
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Yes, all programmable modes like DoublePal, DoubleNTSC, Multiscan etc are supported.
I meant is that the only way to get a flickerfree interlaced AGA display?
Like does Replay have a hardware flickerfixer built-in that can deinterlace the Amiga's interlace modes? And if so, is it free? Or does it use the same amount of bandwidth as the corresponding Double#? mode?
My real Amiga has a hardware flickerfixer so all my PAL and NTSC interlace software displays to my VGA monitor without costing me any extra bandwidth.
I'm just trying to figure out what to tell ppl when they play my games on Replay.
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I have made some tests using bustest and my A4000 and both of my Replay boards (Rev.A with daughterboard and standard Rev.B). What do you think?
[CODE]
BusSpeedTest 0.19 (mlelstv) Buffer: 262144 Bytes, Alignment: 32768
memtype op A4K PAL A4K VGA A4K RTG RP PAL RP VGA 060 PAL 060 VGA 060 RTG
fast readw 33.7 33.6 33.7 20.9 19.4 52.9 52.3 52.8
chip readw 1.7 0.7 2.3 5.8 4.7 7.1 7.1 7.1
My conclusion:
* Video modes that use more bit/s will leave less capacity for other stuff.
* Faster memory interface = more capacity
* Separate memory for CPU = faster read/writes
The RP+060 is perfect in all those aspects.
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Considering it's almost finished and not yet optimized, those numbers are incredible.
Congrats guys, that's so much better than existing motherboards that you're really making me want one.
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Will using the expansion board without the 060 give any performance boost over the vanilla Replay? Or would I be best to get my hands on the cheapest RC model I can find?
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I meant is that the only way to get a flickerfree interlaced AGA display?
I don't have any plans to implement a flicker-fixer. Productivity and DoublePAL/NTSC modes are much faster on Replay than on any AGA Amiga (over 8 times) so it's not a problem. Besides you have a bunch of nice RTG screen modes so why not use them?
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Hahaha! Nice to see I'm not the only who loves AmigaDOS (not WB) around here :D
I always wondered why the Los Gatos team decided to include connectives in commands like "from", "to", etc... it makes AmigaDOS a very fun yet easy DOS to use. My favorite over Linux and Risc OS.
It would have been the MetaComCo guys who included those commands from TripOS, not the Amiga guys :)
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I don't have any plans to implement a flicker-fixer. Productivity and DoublePAL/NTSC modes are much faster on Replay than on any AGA Amiga (over 8 times) so it's not a problem. Besides you have a bunch of nice RTG screen modes so why not use them?
What about when you want to fire up a game and it runs in non double PAL and you're wired up to a monitor that can't take 15kHz?
Nevertheless I'm sure someone will come up with a solution. WHDLoad+Mode Promotion?
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What about when you want to fire up a game and it runs in non double PAL and you're wired up to a monitor that can't take 15kHz?
Nevertheless I'm sure someone will come up with a solution. WHDLoad+Mode Promotion?
Do you have a particular game in mind? Remember, you have a scan doubler, just not a flicker fixer.
Off the top of my head, the only games I remember playing that made use of a flicker fixer were Sim Ant and SimCity2000. I think Sim City could use other screen modes, not sure about Sim Ant.
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Hello,
While a fan of the current board form factor... would you also consider a different layout of the board that contains the current FPGA Arcade and the '060 board? I for one could definitely live with a larger board. My thinking is either an ATX size board - or a board that we could fit inside of an existing Amiga case - like an A1200 or A4000.
Thanks!
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why? let them get the actual thing get out of the door at last instead asking for more. you see how long it takes. besides modular design is good. everybody can complete his prefference system out of ready designed pieces keeping design and production effort low.
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Hello,
While a fan of the current board form factor... would you also consider a different layout of the board that contains the current FPGA Arcade and the '060 board? I for one could definitely live with a larger board. My thinking is either an ATX size board - or a board that we could fit inside of an existing Amiga case - like an A1200 or A4000.
Thanks!
But you can fit this board inside an A1200 case... along with another 9 or 10 of them at teh same time. ;)
Any new board would end up taking months (years) of development, so I doubt we're likely to see an "FPGA Arcade 2" any time soon. I'd rather see resources used in improving this board and developing extra cores than in making another board.
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Question for MikeJ:
Regarding your USB keyboard/mouse modification, would that let someone use an A1200 keyboard on the FPGA Arcade via a KeyRah?
I've got an A1200 case conatining a KeyRah that I've used with WinUAE. 5 Minutes with knife and I could install my FPGA Arcade motherboard in it.
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Why? I would rather have a single board solution myself. Keep tacking on other components and it can get a bit kludgey - in my opinion. Electrically I'm sure there would be more worries about noise and maintaining good contacts. A re-do of the layout could happen any time - I'm not demanding anything - just a suggestion. I could add about 15 different little boards to my A1000 too, and instead the GBA1000 is an awesome layout. And as Darrin just mentioned, some of these would find homes in older existing Amiga cases - or if in ATX layout in any standard PC case.
Again, I'm happy with the way things currently are - just bringing up some ideas.
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Do you have a particular game in mind? Remember, you have a scan doubler, just not a flicker fixer..
I think that's the point that is not clear. People don't distinguish between the two, they just know it makes their modern monitor work.
Regardless of deinterlacing/flicker-fixing, will it output NTSC/PAL in a way that a modern monitor can display?
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Why? I would rather have a single board solution myself. Keep tacking on other components and it can get a bit kludgey - in my opinion. Electrically I'm sure there would be more worries about noise and maintaining good contacts. A re-do of the layout could happen any time - I'm not demanding anything - just a suggestion. I could add about 15 different little boards to my A1000 too, and instead the GBA1000 is an awesome layout. And as Darrin just mentioned, some of these would find homes in older existing Amiga cases - or if in ATX layout in any standard PC case.
The problem is that while you and I might like single product solutions, a lot of customers will be looking for the cheapest option. It is easier to support and sell a single mobo with an optional expansion than 2 different mobos.
Again, I'm happy with the way things currently are - just bringing up some ideas.
Don't worry, I'm not knocking your ideas. I think it would be great to have replacement motherboard options to put in different Amiga cases to resurrect broken machines.
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I think that's the point that is not clear. People don't distinguish between the two, they just know it makes their modern monitor work.
Regardless of deinterlacing/flicker-fixing, will it output NTSC/PAL in a way that a modern monitor can display?
Yes, I can confirm that I use my Minimig and FPGA Arcade on the same PC displays via the VGA input. My monitor of choice is my 1920x1080 Viewsonic VA2223 which will happily do PAL and NTSC modes, my Olevia wisescreen TV and my Panasonic 40" plasma TV.
Do make sure that the monitor you choose will dispaly PAL. Viewsonic seem to be good about this, but always check the specs before you buy. CRTs are no problem.
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How do I get on the list for a PS/2 capable version of replay + 060 daughterboard?
No way in hell do I want a version that requires a USB keyboard or USB mouse. All my equipment is PS/2. All my KVM switches are PS/2. All my mice are PS/2. All my keyboards are PS/2. PS/2 works on everything in the universe. USB does not. No way in hell am I downgrading to USB keyboards or mice. USB is for cameras and mp3 players and things that get disconnected and reconnected all the time. For things that plug in and sit there, PS/2 is superior and is interrupt driven and doesn't waste any cpu power.
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How do I get on the list for a PS/2 capable version of replay + 060 daughterboard?
No way in hell do I want a version that requires a USB keyboard or USB mouse. All my equipment is PS/2. All my KVM switches are PS/2. All my mice are PS/2. All my keyboards are PS/2. PS/2 works on everything in the universe. USB does not. No way in hell am I downgrading to USB keyboards or mice. USB is for cameras and mp3 players and things that get disconnected and reconnected all the time. For things that plug in and sit there, PS/2 is superior and is interrupt driven and doesn't waste any cpu power.
I'm assuming that will be an option when your board is ready to ship, like the video outputs.
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Do you have a particular game in mind? Remember, you have a scan doubler, just not a flicker fixer.
Off the top of my head, the only games I remember playing that made use of a flicker fixer were Sim Ant and SimCity2000. I think Sim City could use other screen modes, not sure about Sim Ant.
Wow, u have forgotten more about the Amiga than I have. :)
OTTOMH some other games that need/benefit from a flickerfixer are:
Total Chaos ECS 2
Total Chaos ECS 3
Total Chaos AGA 4
Total Chaos AGA 5
Total Chaos AGA 6
Total Chaos AGA 7
Robo(warrior?) whatever that robot programming battling game was called.
That German hires interlace Risk game
MechForce
A-Train (and/or some other train games)
If I was to dig thru my software collection I am sure I could find a lot more.
Most games that run in Interlace desperately need more bandwidth which Replay conveniently provides.
Some games have an easy way to select screenmode of DoublePAL or whatever but a lot of games do not. Those other games need some sort of forced promotion util. ModePro from Aminet might work for this purpose.
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Wow, u have forgotten more about the Amiga than I have. :)
OTTOMH some other games that need/benefit from a flickerfixer are:
Total Chaos ECS 2
Total Chaos ECS 3
Total Chaos AGA 4
Total Chaos AGA 5
Total Chaos AGA 6
Total Chaos AGA 7
Robo(warrior?) whatever that robot programming battling game was called.
That German hires interlace Risk game
MechForce
A-Train (and/or some other train games)
If I was to dig thru my software collection I am sure I could find a lot more.
Most games that run in Interlace desperately need more bandwidth which Replay conveniently provides.
Some games have an easy way to select screenmode of DoublePAL or whatever but a lot of games do not. Those other games need some sort of forced promotion util. ModePro from Aminet might work for this purpose.
Is now a good time to admit that I've never played Total Chaos. :D
The German "Risk" game that I play is called "Amber" and isn't interlaced. Different game?
I haven't played A-Train or MechForce either.
I get the feeling I've been missing out. :p
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Total Chaos and Mechforce are freely available on Aminet for countless years and are highly regarded examples of 32-bit Multitasking Interlaced Mouse-Controlled TBS Gaming. :)
"That German Risk Game" has no name that I am aware of. Its just some random PD Risk game that I downloaded off a BBS waaaaaaaaay back in the olden days. There were many different PD Risk games for Amiga so I might be mixing them all up inside my head. One of them was better than all the others because it had many different personalities for the cpu players.
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How do I get on the list for a PS/2 capable version of replay + 060 daughterboard?
No way in hell do I want a version that requires a USB keyboard or USB mouse. All my equipment is PS/2. All my KVM switches are PS/2. All my mice are PS/2. All my keyboards are PS/2. PS/2 works on everything in the universe. USB does not. No way in hell am I downgrading to USB keyboards or mice. USB is for cameras and mp3 players and things that get disconnected and reconnected all the time. For things that plug in and sit there, PS/2 is superior and is interrupt driven and doesn't waste any cpu power.
It's a build option. The USB is driven with a small dedicated microcontroller directly into the FPGA, so the system does not see a difference between the PS2 and USB devices.
/MikeJ
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would this CPU work in my replay board when I get one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTOROLA-RC-68060-50MHz-CPU-MMU-FPU-XC68060RC50A-01F43G-/321055249815?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item4ac0625597
I would like to get one before the rush.
50mhz is OK for me.
Thanks!
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would this CPU work in my replay board when I get one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTOROLA-RC-68060-50MHz-CPU-MMU-FPU-XC68060RC50A-01F43G-/321055249815?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item4ac0625597
I would like to get one before the rush.
50mhz is OK for me.
Thanks!
That's a really early mask. I can get these no problem in China at a pretty good price.
(I sent most of the last batch back though, so none at the moment)
/MikeJ
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No way in hell do I want a version that requires a USB keyboard or USB mouse. All my equipment is PS/2. All my KVM switches are PS/2. All my mice are PS/2. All my keyboards are PS/2. PS/2 works on everything in the universe. USB does not. No way in hell am I downgrading to USB keyboards or mice. USB is for cameras and mp3 players and things that get disconnected and reconnected all the time. For things that plug in and sit there, PS/2 is superior and is interrupt driven and doesn't waste any cpu power.
Well. its getting harder and harder to find PS/2 compatible stuff...
Just try and find a wireless mouse that operates on the 2.4ghz range vs the old less reliable 27mhz stuff... Logitech for example, made only one model of such mouse that i'm aware of.
I will be getting USB :)
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Well. its getting harder and harder to find PS/2 compatible stuff...
No.
Its dead easy. PS/2 compatible stuff is sold all day long every day continuously forever and ever on NewEgg and a zillion other places. Not only available but cheap too.
Just try and find a wireless mouse that operates on the 2.4ghz range vs the old less reliable 27mhz stuff... Logitech for example, made only one model of such mouse that i'm aware of.
I will be getting USB :)
Wireless mice and keyboards sux. They weigh triple the weight (or more) of a wired mouse because of the big heavy battery. They cause tendonits, RSI, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, RSD, CRPS, nerve damage and other horrible problems.
A mouse is something you put force into many millions of times per year. Due to the way hand anatomy is constructed, a mouse should weigh as little as possible and otherwise be user-friendly.
I have tried lots of wired and wireless mice and keyboards. I will be sticking with the wired versions which are cheaper, more ergonomical, cost less, are healthier, don't have to be recharged, have a lower price, and don't force you to downgrade to obsolete USB1.1
My PS/2 mice come with a 1M to 2M cable, which I plug into a 2M to 3M extension cable in the movie room. So the mouse and keyboard can reach anywhere.
I have 2 wireless PS3 joysticks which are only 1.5 years old and have undergone very light use and they are already having trouble keeping a charge. The other 2 PS3 joysticks are still 100% ok but I have trouble imagining them to still be working 5 years from now. The controllers were not cheap or anything. They were like $50.00 a piece. I am judgemental. When I pay $50.00 for a controller I expect it to last 10 years.
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I prefer touchpads, much less problems for the hand with them.
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Once you have used a bluetooth touchpad, any mouse, wired or not, seems just a little silly.
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Wireless mice and keyboards sux. They weigh triple the weight (or more) of a wired mouse because of the big heavy battery.
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-illuminated-keyboard-k800
I one of these and I use it daily in my living room and it lasts for months on one charge. I have only charged it once after I initially charged it. I liked it so much I decided to get another one for my desktop because it has good compatibility with some of my more picky machines. I figure whenever this eventually does need a charge I'll just swap out the KB and mouse set because the one on the desktop always charges.
Backlit, Rechargeable, Wireless, and inexpensive at the local Tiger Direct store... $79
I also have a logitech t620 mouse that is combined to use the same usb receiver dongle. This can be done on a windows PC and the pairing persists even if you move the dongle.
When I want to use the Amiga 1200, i use it with this mouse/kb(though a series of converters), switch it to the Raspberry Pi, etc. My monitor has 3 HDMI inputs and one VGA so with this I was able to get rid of my bulky KVM.
Here is something you may not know this t620 mouse, apple wireless mice, and probably a lot of other wireless mice.
**They work with just one AA battery and they both need not be installed if the weight is too much for you.***
The movement is just as smooth as a wired mouse unlike the 27mhz and bluetooth mice I have owned.
I don't want to go too off topic but modern mouse/kb technology is just that much better than it was just a few years ago.
Also I think absolutely must have a USB version and maybe I can use it with the Atrix lapdock dock I have not gottem around to doing anything with. I always wanted a portable Amiga and it sucks that I did not keep my PAWS.
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I want a Replay with 060 Daughtercard and since I am a software developer I need an 060 with an MMU. Even if I have to sacrifice Mhz, that is just the way it is. I love Yaqube's 106Mhz 060 but I really have to have my debugging. Sad but true.
Am I allowed to buy one like that?
How much Mhz can I get with a full MMU? Is it possible to achieve 80Mhz with MMU? I need speed. My poor creaky old C compiler needs all the speed it can get. My gamecode does really hardcore cpu blitting animation so it needs all the cpu speed it can get.
As to FPU, I have mixed feelings on that one. I Like FPUs but I don't like sacrificing integer Mhz to get one. So whatever u give me is ok.
Do I need to pay a bribe to someone to get a Replay+060+MMU? Who do I pay and how much?
I am not trying to rush you or anything. I have waited patiently to buy a Replay from you for all these years.
I want a fully loaded, all the bells and whistles, Replay. All the addons and doohickeys and thingamajigs. A quality complete product. If that means I have to wait 6 months to buy one from AmigaKit then that's ok. I will just have to wait. I will supply my own mouse and keyboard. Other than that I would prefer to buy a complete functioning computer with case and power supply and so forth. I am not planning to use composite video output, but since you have gone to the trouble to offer it as an option I will pay the extra $$$ to have it, just in case. Anything u put the work into to do, I will happily buy from you. I don't mind to pay extra $ for extra quality.
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Once you have used a bluetooth touchpad, any mouse, wired or not, seems just a little silly.
I have not used the specific touchpad you are speaking of... how is it different than the touchpad in any random laptop?
I have used the touchpads in laptops so I have a point of reference.
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I tried out the apple touch pad. My initial impression is that it was hard on my fingertips clicking.
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I have been using a ps3 controller regularly for about 4 years and have never had any battery problems with it. Also the battery is replaceable so it's not a biggie.
As for everyone whining about mice and stuff i use a logitech trackball and think they are the best (mouse related) invention ever! I love them so much i have 2.
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Once you have used a bluetooth touchpad, any mouse, wired or not, seems just a little silly.
Are you talking about Apples magic pad? If you are i think they look interesting. Do they work on Windows? In my experience touchpads don't work as well on Windows compared to Apples.
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Do I need to pay a bribe to someone to get a Replay+060+MMU? Who do I pay and how much?
I am not trying to rush you or anything. I have waited patiently to buy a Replay from you for all these years.
Just wait like the rest of us and read the thread... all in the same boat!
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Are you talking about Apples magic pad? If you are i think they look interesting. Do they work on Windows? In my experience touchpads don't work as well on Windows compared to Apples.
I'm assuming something like this...
http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Graphire-Bluetooth-8-Inch-Tablet/dp/B0009DG7KK
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How much Mhz can I get with a full MMU? Is it possible to achieve 80Mhz with MMU?
My rev.6 CPU works at 106 MHz with fully functional MMU and FPU. With disabled MMU it works at 120 MHz.
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While a fan of the current board form factor... would you also consider a different layout of the board that contains the current FPGA Arcade and the '060 board?
I can tell you in secret that I'm working on a new board which integrates an FPGA and 060 CPU together with other goodies. It won't be a direct replacement of any existing Amiga mainboard.
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I can tell you in secret that I'm working on a new board which integrates an FPGA and 060 CPU together with other goodies. It won't be a direct replacement of any existing Amiga mainboard.
You're telling us in secret on a public forum? ;)
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I'm working on a new board which integrates an FPGA and 060 CPU together with other goodies. It won't be a direct replacement of any existing Amiga mainboard.
Will it have Ethernet (100Base-T) ..?
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I can tell you in secret that I'm working on a new board which integrates an FPGA and 060 CPU together with other goodies. It won't be a direct replacement of any existing Amiga mainboard.
Will it have Ethernet (100Base-T) ..?
How about full speed PCI with 4-5 slots? PCI ethernet, USB, GFX and sound cards are available for almost free. Maybe a little more memory? Price? Spill the beans! Your secret is as safe hear as any public forum ;).
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How about full speed PCI with 4-5 slots? PCI ethernet, USB, GFX and sound cards are available for almost free. Maybe a little more memory? Price? Spill the beans! Your secret is as safe hear as any public forum ;).
New thread please... there are enough spam/OT posts in this thread titled FPGA REPLAY BOARD ;)
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You're telling us in secret on a public forum? ;)
Well it's not like there are any Amiga-loonies who will pester him about details here on the looniest Amiga forum :D
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New thread please... there are enough spam/OT posts in this thread titled FPGA REPLAY BOARD ;)
I thought the purpose of this thread was to build the longest thread in the Amigaverse? A thread so long that it could reach all the way from one end of the Amigaverse to the other, in order to unite all the camps around a single campfire, singing songs and eating marshmallows in peace and tranquility?
How can we achieve such a goal if we go round disallowing offtopic posts? Yer jus not thinkin it threw. Get a grip, man! :biglaugh: :roflmao:
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MikeJ, how did the production of the boards go? Did the holidays slow it down or are you on schedule?
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China stops completely for two weeks, so they are sitting waiting for assembly.
I have the complete usb adapter modules for testing though.
/MikeJ
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My rev.6 CPU works at 106 MHz with fully functional MMU and FPU. With disabled MMU it works at 120 MHz.
Does the 060 daughterboard come with CPU, or without ?
is it possible in the future any solution between the Natami's 68050 and your daughterboard ?
(because the stock of rev6-060 not too much, and supply comes with lot of risks)
... and one more thing;
Did you use any cooling solution for 060 at 106 Mhz
Thanks, and of course congratulations a lot.
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Does the 060 daughterboard come with CPU, or without ?
It depends. Mike is trying to get some from China but so far all of them have turned out to be fakes.
is it possible in the future any solution between the Natami's 68050 and your daughterboard ?
(because the stock of rev6-060 not too much, and supply comes with lot of risks)
Yes, there are plans to create another daughterboard with a bigger FPGA which could act as high-performance CPU. The question remains: who will make the CPU core?
Did you use any cooling solution for 060 at 106 Mhz
Yes, small heatsink and small fan. At 100 MHz the CPU is able to run without active cooling.
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Thanks for these clarifications Yaqube mate! Grand respect to your hard work \o/
I already have a spare Rev.6 060 that waits patiently to find his way home in your future's daughterboard's socket :)
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Yes, there are plans to create another daughterboard with a bigger FPGA which could act as high-performance CPU. The question remains: who will make the CPU core?
Make some boards available and the code already used in the FPGA Arcade such that many people can tinker with it.
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It depends. Mike is trying to get some from China but so far all of them have turned out to be fakes.
Which Chinese government official did u bribe to get your unfake one? :biglaugh:
Yes, there are plans to create another daughterboard with a bigger FPGA which could act as high-performance CPU. The question remains: who will make the CPU core?
There are several ppl who would have made, or assisted in making such a core if only they had the hardware to experiment with.
I for one, do not trust the speed assessments given by the simulation software.
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I for one, do not trust the speed assessments given by the simulation software.
One can always measure number of instructions executed per clockcycle with VHDL simulators.
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MikeJ, what's the meaning of life? :rolleyes:
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I for one, do not trust the speed assessments given by the simulation software.
Why?
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Why?
Because its a simulation and simulations are not real. You can make up 1000 different simulations of something and get 1000 different answers.
If they actually knew the answer for a fact then it would be called a Calculation, not a simulation. Right?
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Because its a simulation and simulations are not real. You can make up 1000 different simulations of something and get 1000 different answers.
Then the thing you're simulating is random, or your simulation is wrong.
If they actually knew the answer for a fact then it would be called a Calculation, not a simulation. Right?
No.
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Simulation is a lot of calculations really fast ;)
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I can tell you in secret that I'm working on a new board which integrates an FPGA and 060 CPU together with other goodies. It won't be a direct replacement of any existing Amiga mainboard.
TAKE MY MONEY! No, seriously... TAKE MY MONEY!
ATX/Baby ATX form factor? If so, awesome. I have several '060s waiting here patiently. Me, not so much.
Thanks!
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Yes, there are plans to create another daughterboard with a bigger FPGA which could act as high-performance CPU. The question remains: who will make the CPU core?.
Hey Jakub,
The NatAmi 68050 core (also known as N050) is going to be published under GPL license.
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=6¬e=32232&x=5
Pozdrawiam :)
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Hey Jakub,
The NatAmi 68050 core (also known as N050) is going to be published under GPL license.
http://www.natami.net/knowledge.php?b=6¬e=32232&x=5
Pozdrawiam :)
We'll have Natami cores just in time to use them on our BoXer boards.
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We'll have Natami cores just in time to use them on our BoXer boards.
BoXeR?
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The NatAmi 68050 core (also known as N050) is going to be published under GPL license.
I have heard about Jen's plans. Frankly speaking I also work on a 68000 CPU core but it's far from complete, it needs about 500 work hours to complete so it won't happen soon.
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MikeJ, what's the meaning of life? :rolleyes:
Also, what can change the nature of a man?
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@MikeJ:
TobiFlex in flesh and bone has fixed some TG68 bugs yesterday and now TG68 is compatible with certain games that crashed before. Maybe you should merge his changes with the new core. Relevant thread:
http://minimig.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=558
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Because its a simulation and simulations are not real. You can make up 1000 different simulations of something and get 1000 different answers.
If they actually knew the answer for a fact then it would be called a Calculation, not a simulation. Right?
There is always a margin of error for maximum clock speed, even with real chips. An 8mhz 68000 doesn't include anything that limits it to exactly that speed for instance. They just picked a round number out of the air and designed it so that the power and heat were roughly within other numbers that they picked out of the air.
However if you're talking about how fast a CPU in an FPGA will run at a given clock speed, then the simulation should easily be able to come up with an accurate answer for that.
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Wire inductance, wire capacitance and heat issues are usually the factors that limit the speed (asfaik).
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@MikeJ:
TobiFlex in flesh and bone has fixed some TG68 bugs yesterday and now TG68 is compatible with certain games that crashed before. Maybe you should merge his changes with the new core. Relevant thread:
http://minimig.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=558
Got it.
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Got it.
cool, tg68 is improving, and some conscious involved, have already thought its dead.
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The rumours of the TG68 death is overrated ;)
Wonder what is the best modded-TG68, FPGA-Arcade68, or Natami050? or perhaps more importantly. Which ones that can be merged and make use of the benefits of its ancestors.
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So -- how are we doing with a C64 Core ? :-)
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Wonder what is the best modded-TG68, FPGA-Arcade68, or Natami050? or perhaps more importantly. Which ones that can be merged and make use of the benefits of its ancestors.
I thought the N050/N070 cores were started from scratch and didn't use the TG68 core.
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I thought the N050/N070 cores were started from scratch and didn't use the TG68 core.
It was from scratch.
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I have a question - may seem naive but please bear with me:
It seems the standard FPGA Arcade running WITHOUT this special daughter 060 daughter card will already nicely behave as an AGA 68020 Amiga (essentially an A1200).
So, wouldn't it be possible for the FPGA (or future versions of the FPGA) just to run the 68020 at multiple times the speed of a regular 68020 to get speeds similar to a 68060?
I say that because in UAE, the instructions suggest that you set your emulated Amiga to 68020 CPU mode (because the 68020 is the CPU that has the best emulation coded for it - 68040/060 emulation still lags behind in development).
Even though the emulated Amiga in UAE is set to 68020, WinUAE can run your "virtual 68020" Amiga as fast as the host computer's processor will allow. Because of this, an emulated 68020 A1200 can run much faster than an real hardware Amiga with a 68060 accelerator card.
So why not just have a faster 68020 CPU in FPGA rather than adding a real 68060 daughtercard?
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It's a very good question, Ral-clan, and I'd be interesting in hearing a good response, too. Why not a FAST 020 softcore instead of going the physical 060 route? (heat, fake cpu's and hard to find original parts...)
In UAE (FS-UAE in my case) it's the way to go when I want a fast CPU.
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So why not just have a faster 68020 CPU in FPGA rather than adding a real 68060 daughtercard?
The same reason you can't just put a 1ghz crystal in your A1200.
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So why not just have a faster 68020 CPU in FPGA rather than adding a real 68060 daughtercard?
The 68020-68060 user mode integer instruction and addressing modes are practically the same. The 68060 and 68040 have MOVE16 but I'm not aware of any compiler that ever used it. The main difference between supporting 68060 and 68020 code involves supervisor mode, the FPU and MMU. The TG68 does not have this support and it would be difficult and time consuming to add. The reason for a real 68060 is:
1) speed
A highly efficient fpga CPU will have a hard time reaching 68060@50MHz performance (not clock speed) in an affordable fpga.
2) compatibility and stability
There is nothing like the real thing for compatibility. The rev 6 68060 is practically bug free.
3) FPU, MMU
There is no fpga 68k CPU that supports an FPU or MMU yet.
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So why not just have a faster 68020 CPU in FPGA rather than adding a real 68060 daughtercard?
The current FPGA Arcade, FPGA chip has a limited logic matrix as it has to handle graphics, sound, disc, memory etc.. too. There's also a limit on the gate to gate latency.
You could use a separate FPGA module as a I have suggested previously (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63800). That would give more logic matrix to work with. But leaves the latency issue which can be solved by using a manufacturer that specialize in faster variants.
You can put a 1 GHz crystal in your A1200..but buy a fire extinguisher and a miggy replacement first ;)
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The 68020-68060 user mode integer instruction and addressing modes are practically the same. The 68060 and 68040 have MOVE16 but I'm not aware of any compiler that ever used it.
There were a couple for the Amiga that did when you turned on the 040 optimizer, and all of us assembly guys used MOVE16 whenever the 040/060 was present. Also, the Mac OS used it extensively on their 040 based models.
I still think emulating the supervisor/user modes and some other simple added instructions would go a long ways with the FPGA core to make it 020 compatible. This is something I am interested in looking at when I get ahold of one of these boards.
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Not sure if it is what you guys are talking about but i remember Thomas(?) mentioning using an ARM chip for the Natami that will allow it to perform multiple instruction sets using the same clock speed*.
*Please don't ask me to explain it - i'm already confused...
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Not sure if it is what you guys are talking about but i remember Thomas(?) mentioning using an ARM chip for the Natami that will allow it to perform multiple instruction sets using the same clock speed*.
*Please don't ask me to explain it - i'm already confused...
No, there was to be a physical 68060 on a daughterboard.
Any ARM cpu on the board was for configuration loading/setup/whatever-else.
In theory you could run non-Natami configurations on the FPGA with their own softcores, or mount another type of CPU/FPGA on a custom daughterboard. Those were just ideas that were discussed on the forums though, not something Thomas ever showed interest in.
Andy
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No, there was to be a physical 68060 on a daughterboard.
Any ARM cpu on the board was for configuration loading/setup/whatever-else.
In theory you could run non-Natami configurations on the FPGA with their own softcores, or mount another type of CPU/FPGA on a custom daughterboard. Those were just ideas that were discussed on the forums though, not something Thomas ever showed interest in.
Andy
And this is exactly how the Replay works. The ARM controller configures the FPGA and handles the SD card in a (becoming) generic way. The CPU of your choice can be mounted on a daughterboard.
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You can put a 1 GHz crystal in your A1200..but buy a fire extinguisher and a miggy replacement first ;)
I doubt it would catch fire, but it won't do what you want. It's likely that it will keep on not doing what you want after you put the 14mhz crystal back. Unless you actually want it to sit there doing nothing, but there are easier ways of achieving that than replacing the crystal.
MOVE16 was at least used in some of the CopyMem patches: http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/CopyMem
It is theoretically possible to achieve the same compatibility as the real chip, including the FPU and MMU. The speed and size of the FPGA in use will limit the performance. Potentially all the way down to zero if you can't produce a design that fits. Using microcode + a sequencer should allow it to fit, it just won't necessarily be fast enough. There is also the problem that someone has to do it.
A sequencer is like a cpu that is designed specifically for doing one task, which is to run the microcode. The microcode is like an emulator that is written for that cpu. As you design both in tandem and can make compromises based on exactly what you need it to do then it works out a lot faster than putting in a general purpose cpu and porting an existing emulator core. But you don't have the luxury of stringing together other peoples work, it's where the glory is though.
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There were a couple for the Amiga that did when you turned on the 040 optimizer, and all of us assembly guys used MOVE16 whenever the 040/060 was present. Also, the Mac OS used it extensively on their 040 based models.
I have looked at a lot of disassembled Amiga 68k code. I have not seen any version of GCC, SAS/C or vbbc generate a MOVE16 instruction. I have not looked at MAC code so perhaps CodeWarrior generated MOVE16. MOVE16 is generally not used in general purpose code because of the alignment restrictions and the fact that the cache is bypassed.
I still think emulating the supervisor/user modes and some other simple added instructions would go a long ways with the FPGA core to make it 020 compatible. This is something I am interested in looking at when I get ahold of one of these boards.
I haven't seen a list of the instructions supported by the TG68 but I thought it was fairly complete as far as 68020 integer instructions. It has MOVEP and the bitfield instructions which are common on the Amiga. A 68k Macintosh emulator probably needs more support though ;).
MOVE16 was at least used in some of the CopyMem patches: http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/CopyMem
Sure, there are a few patches on the Amiga but MOVE16 is only worthwhile when copying data greater than several kilobytes and the Amiga doesn't copy data that big very often. MOVE16 is barely worth using on a 68k Amiga and I'm the author of CopyMem mentioned above. Linux would be a different story as it copies large amounts of memory and flushing the caches when doing so would likely deteriorate performance.
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Sure, there are a few patches on the Amiga but MOVE16 is only worthwhile when copying data greater than several kilobytes and the Amiga doesn't copy data that big very often. MOVE16 is barely worth using on a 68k Amiga and I'm the author of CopyMem mentioned above.
Some software uses it and the replay board isn't just an Amiga, it would make sense to reuse the same cpu core for running MacOS or any other operating system.
I'm not sure I'd argue that it's not worthwhile if I'd actually released something that used it.
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MOVE16 is barely worth using on a 68k Amiga and I'm the author of CopyMem mentioned above.
Hehe that is how I always felt about it. I was a really hardcore asm coder and yet I never used Move16. I coded a bunch of special purpose copy routines for high speed screen updates. I thought about making a special version for use on CPUs that have the Move16 instruction but I was like, meh... So all my gfx copying routines just use move.l. I really should force myself to write a move16 version. Someone told me once that it conflicted with certain hardware. Any truth to that?
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Some software uses it and the replay board isn't just an Amiga, it would make sense to reuse the same cpu core for running MacOS or any other operating system.
True. MOVE16 shouldn't be very difficult to support and it may be possible to provide a speedup when using it. Difficult would be CAS and CAS2 which the Macintosh also uses.
I'm not sure I'd argue that it's not worthwhile if I'd actually released something that used it.
I'm not afraid of the truth whatever it is :). There probably are Amiga programs that benefit from using MOVE16 for larger memory copies but they would be rare. Also, future programs could potentially benefit.
Hehe that is how I always felt about it. I was a really hardcore asm coder and yet I never used Move16. I coded a bunch of special purpose copy routines for high speed screen updates. I thought about making a special version for use on CPUs that have the Move16 instruction but I was like, meh... So all my gfx copying routines just use move.l. I really should force myself to write a move16 version. Someone told me once that it conflicted with certain hardware. Any truth to that?
There was a MOVE16 bug in some early 68040s. Recovery after a crash while using MOVE16 may not be possible as ThoR mentions in the Mu 68060.library docs. I haven't heard of anyone having a problem using MOVE16 though.
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This will also mean the daughterboard can go directly into volume production.
/MikeJ
Hi,
What about MC68060 then? Any chance to order the daughter board together with MC68060 there?
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If I can find some, yes ;)
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Will you ship the first daughterboard out with fitted 060 to us with the pre-released beta boards first ?
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Of course, existing board owners who have been waiting for the daughterboard will be first. I can't promise 060s at the moment though (well, I can but not the final mask set).
/MikeJ
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Of course, existing board owners who have been waiting for the daughterboard will be first. I can't promise 060s at the moment though (well, I can but not the final mask set).
/MikeJ
My 1200 has a Rev1 and I'm not sure I ever had a issue related to that.
What is the downside to not having the final mask? Just clock speed?
thanks
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Of course, existing board owners who have been waiting for the daughterboard will be first. I can't promise 060s at the moment though (well, I can but not the final mask set).
/MikeJ
Excellent. I'll take one as soon as they're ready, fitted with what type of 68060 you can get your hands on. ;)
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I'm not afraid of the truth whatever it is :). There probably are Amiga programs that benefit from using MOVE16 for larger memory copies but they would be rare. Also, future programs could potentially benefit.
If I copy 327K from fastram to fastram, how much speedup would Move16 provide?
If I copy 327K from fastram to chipram, how much speedup would Move16 provide?
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Of course, existing board owners who have been waiting for the daughterboard will be first. I can't promise 060s at the moment though (well, I can but not the final mask set).
/MikeJ
Great MikeJ, Still have a 68060 71E41J on my bench, but maybe it's fake but i cant test it because i have no classic amiga around (only a A600).
We see what happens when the daughterboard is here :-)
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I was quoted a price of 1015 Euros for a fully loaded Replay with all bells, whistles and gizmos and case and power supply and 64GB SDXC memory card.
I quickly agreed so I could get onto the Replay preorder list.
I figured it would be like $1200.00 which I happen to have in my bank account, just barely.
But when I later googled I found out that 1015 Euros = $1364.00
CRIKEY!
Now I think I understand why ppl buy their own cases and power supplies!
I can rob my grocery cash to pay the difference so I can still buy the Replay. Since they won't let me buy it right this second I am thinking I should investigate cases and power supplies.
I just don't know anything about cases or power supplies. What kind would I need to get? Are they routinely sold cheaply at NewEgg?
Does it matter which one I get? Any secret gotchas?
Is it important to buy a very super specific case so that the memory cards can be easily swapped?
I am thinking that if I did go ahead and buy my own case and powersupply that I could avoid a 25% tax to the King of Sweden and another 33% tax to the Exchange Rate Powers That Be.
I don't mind paying 58% tax to MikeJ, Yaqube or anyone who worked on Replay. They deserve my $$$. But I don't like to pay tax to governments that don't deserve it or to the Exchange Rate Gods.
What kind of cases and power supplies are you guys getting?
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What kind of cases and power supplies are you guys getting?
Glue gun to the back of my TV, with a suitable pico-itx psu from http://www.mini-itx.com/store/ or similar. :)
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I was quoted a price of 1015 Euros for a fully loaded Replay with all bells, whistles and gizmos and case and power supply and 64GB SDXC memory card.
I quickly agreed so I could get onto the Replay preorder list.
I figured it would be like $1200.00 which I happen to have in my bank account, just barely.
But when I later googled I found out that 1015 Euros = $1364.00
CRIKEY!
Now I think I understand why ppl buy their own cases and power supplies!
I can rob my grocery cash to pay the difference so I can still buy the Replay. Since they won't let me buy it right this second I am thinking I should investigate cases and power supplies.
I just don't know anything about cases or power supplies. What kind would I need to get? Are they routinely sold cheaply at NewEgg?
Does it matter which one I get? Any secret gotchas?
Is it important to buy a very super specific case so that the memory cards can be easily swapped?
I am thinking that if I did go ahead and buy my own case and powersupply that I could avoid a 25% tax to the King of Sweden and another 33% tax to the Exchange Rate Powers That Be.
I don't mind paying 58% tax to MikeJ, Yaqube or anyone who worked on Replay. They deserve my $$$. But I don't like to pay tax to governments that don't deserve it or to the Exchange Rate Gods.
What kind of cases and power supplies are you guys getting?
ChaosLord,
Who has quoted you this?
There is no pricing for the daughterboard yet. Please mail me privately.
If you are outside the EU then you will pay no VAT - although you may pay import duty.
The guide price for the main board (from me) is expected therefore to be 199EU (without comp/svhs) or 229-239EU with. Exact pricing is dependant on import duty and final manufacture cost, and may vary between runs with exchange rate.
I would make this 270 USD for the base board + shipping.
If the board is from one of my resellers, they then charge for integration, cases and support etc so the price will be higer.
/MikeJ
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€800 is a lot for a case, power supply, some memory cards, etc!
Get a mini-Itx case with PSU or without PSU (but then you need a picoPSU + 12V AC/DC convertor (aka external brick)).
Personally I'm thinking of mounting the board between two slabs of perspex, although the pico-PSU cabling might look a bit messy. Maybe smoked perspex rather than clear.
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ChaosLord,
Who has quoted you this?
Your friend Laurent. I thought he was like ur official preorder, sales, marketing type of person?
I just want to be on the official "I really seriously want a Replay + 060 card and am willing to pay for it" list. I want you guys to succeed! I am trying to do what I can to make u guys succeed. If u need me to prepay I am willing to do that, if it will help ur cashflow situation and get things rolling. I know that cash can get really really tight when you first do a production run.
There is no pricing for the daughterboard yet. Please mail me privately.
He said the price was an estimated 300 Euros for daughtercard with MMU+FPU but that it depended on a lot of things. (I take this to mean it will end up being a higher price :)
If you are outside the EU then you will pay no VAT - although you may pay import duty.
I have only ordered from a couple of countries and never had to pay import fees. Definitely no import fees from China or UK.
The guide price for the main board (from me) is expected therefore to be 199EU (without comp/svhs) or 229-239EU with. Exact pricing is dependant on import duty and final manufacture cost, and may vary between runs with exchange rate.
I would make this 270 USD for the base board + shipping.
If the board is from one of my resellers, they then charge for integration, cases and support etc so the price will be higer.
/MikeJ
My quote was for a model with everything. Even the composite video output which I have no intention of ever using. But since you went to all the trouble to build it, I will pay u $$$ for it. If you had a model with PCI slots I would pay extra for that. Or if there was a model with 2GB of ram I would pay extra for that. Even if I have to sell a kidney. I support Amiga hardware manufacturers. I always have. I sold hundreds of Amigas for C= and thousands of C64s back in the day. I am a hardcore Amiga supporter.
But I am a little confused. You are saying I can buy directly from you if I choose? And that you only sell the bare boards?
Or I could wait until Amikit stocks them? Or is Amikit not going to be a reseller? (I know there is no tax of any kind from UK Amikit). I just don't know if Amikit will be offering a fully put together system. What I call a "mass market" model. With the Replay in a case with power suppl and any needed backplanes or power adapters or other needed gizmos. A product that when you get it you just plug it in and it comes on and works.
The thing is I am trying to talk another guy into buying a Replay. He is interested. So I spent hours typing him emails to explain Replay to him. But he absolutely positively needs a put together system. So I figure if I am going to go around talking ppl into buying a Replay that I should buy the exact model and setup that they would be buying (to make sure there are no problems). I don't really like selling products that I don't actually own. I need to own exactly what I am selling. I also need to know prices. I gave him an estimated price of $1000.00. WOOPS! :) Live and learn. :)
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Mike will a 90W PSU do for both the base and addon board (either the with 060 or the proposed secondary fpga)
Tempted to go for one of these to keep the dust out: http://www.ebuyer.com/312925-isk-110-vesa-uk-itx-chassis-uk-0-761345-08198-6 (http://www.ebuyer.com/312925-isk-110-vesa-uk-itx-chassis-uk-0-761345-08198-6)
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€800 is a lot for a case, power supply, some memory cards, etc!
300 Euros for Daughtercard. 110 Euros for Shipping.
Also it included an ATX power adapter. What does that do?
And don't forget the IO Backplane thingy. I want a completely professional setup to the limit of what MikeJ and Yaqube produce. If they make a backplane that costs money then I am just assuming that it is a nice thing to have? So I should pay for that right?
Get a mini-Itx case with PSU or without PSU (but then you need a picoPSU + 12V AC/DC convertor (aka external brick)).
What are the advantages / disadvantages of internal vs. external powersupply for Replay?
All my other computers have an internal power supply. All my PCs have internal power supplies. So does my A1200T/060 and my A3000s and my A2000.
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Hi ChaosLord,
The Mini ITX Case proposed is a Mini ITX one and every Mini ITX has an external pico atx power suppy, like the ones for laptops for example.
Internal ATX supply are for ATX / Micro ATX case, so, it takes more place on your desktop.
Each one can be used for FPGA Arcade board until you take the ATX adapter done by Mike for more security (included in the propopsition you have received).
I think it's just a matter of place on your desktop !
Also, the case I have suggested is a VESA compatible one, so it can be fixed behind your monitor like I show it on my photo HERE (http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/Fully%20Assembled%20Mini%20ITX%20Case/).
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
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Your friend Laurent. I thought he was like ur official preorder, sales, marketing type of person?
...
He said the price was an estimated 300 Euros for daughtercard with MMU+FPU but that it depended on a lot of things. (I take this to mean it will end up being a higher price :)
...
But I am a little confused. You are saying I can buy directly from you if I choose? And that you only sell the bare boards?
.:)
Laurent is a reseller / system integrator.
Yes, you can always buy the boards from me, but you need to put it together and I am rubbish at support - although the forums will help.
Ok, 300E for daughter card + CPU is reasonable, and as long as he said estimate that's fine. I don't know the price yet, it could well be lower.
/MikeJ
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Is this thread ever going to end?
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@kesa: I hope not! The FPGA REPLAY board is going to be the best thing that has happened in the Amiga hardware front since the original V1.1 Minimig board! :D
This thread is about the future!
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@mikej :
Thanks for clarifying the situation between you and me ;)
I hope too this thread will NOT end and grows with the upcoming new features Mike is releasing on the new firmware ;)
Yakub as well as Mike are some very awesome coders, developers for hardware as well as for software ;)
We're getting closed to the shippings so, give still some time to them for releasing a great product ;)
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
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@mikej :
Thanks for clarifying the situation between you and me ;)
Yeah, look at Batman and Robin, Bert and Ernie, etc.. They never clarified their situations and people assumed they were gays. Now that's not bad at all, but it's better to have things clear in a relationship.
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Uhmmm.... I just realized something...
There is no VGA connector....
Please tell me I am going blind and missed it!
How am I going to connect this to any of my CRT Monitors? I own a few Multisync monitors which work perfectly with NTSC and PAL and they have VGA connectors. No DVI or HDMI. I own a few 1084S monitors and some have VGA connectors others have something else but they came with adapters. No DVI or HDMI on my 1084S monitors.
I only own 1 monitor with HDMI connectors and it doesn't do PAL according to the instruction manual. It claims to only support a few common PC modes. In any case that monitor is 100 feet away in another room, far away from my internet computer. The funny thing is that computer with the HDMI connectors also has Composite and VGA connectors and the Windows XP and Windows 7 PC looks best on the VGA connector. For some reason every computer my brother connects to the HDMI looks bad compared to VGA. Its weird because his XBOX 360 and PS3 look fantastic on the HDMI inputs. His Wii looks pretty smeary on the composite.
I wanted to use my Replay on one of my CRT monitors. What am I going to do? :confused:
And don't say "use composite". No way in hell am I connecting a super deluxe $1400.00 Replay to a silly blurry smeary composite video connection.
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Yeah, look at Batman and Robin, Bert and Ernie, etc.. They never clarified their situations and people assumed they were gays. Now that's not bad at all, but it's better to have things clear in a relationship.
:confused:
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@ChaosLord:
No problem, a simple VGA / DVI adapter and it works.
I use that on my 17'' TFT for connecting the FPGA Replay board on it.
This adapter is gifted if people need it.
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
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@Fahrenheit
Whew!
Thanx for the infos!
I was really scared for a minute there :nervous:
Note to self: Replay connects to VGA with simple adapter. :)
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@ChaosLord:
No problem, a simple VGA / DVI adapter and it works.
I use that on my 17'' TFT for connecting the FPGA Replay board on it.
This adapter is gifted if people need it.
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
You should put this in your advertising materials. :)
You have lots of nice pics on your website but I don't remember seeing one about "Connects easily to VGA monitors with an adapter like this:"
Silly me :insane: didn't know it was easy to adapt DVI into VGA. Never done it before so I didn't know.
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Silly me :insane: didn't know it was easy to adapt DVI into VGA. Never done it before so I didn't know.
FYI, it's easy to adapt DVI-I which has both digital and analong signals on the same conenctor. DVI-D is digital-only and is not easy to adapt to VGA.
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There's more info here: http://www.fpgaarcade.com/dev/drupal/?q=node/5 and several hundred pages back :)
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and another 33% tax to the Exchange Rate Powers That Be.
That isn't how currency exchange rates work. The euro is stronger than the dollar. I imagine that during manufacture mikej is paying for parts etc in different currencies and if the euro wasn't as strong then he'd have to put up the euro price of the replay board.
You do pay a small amount for currency conversions, which I agree is a little weird when you're using electronic forms of payment.
It's also a little annoying that every day the price you will need to pay will change. The dollar might strengthen against the euro next week or it might weaken.
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@Fahrenheit
Whew!
Thanx for the infos!
I was really scared for a minute there :nervous:
Note to self: Replay connects to VGA with simple adapter. :)
Note from experience:
Watch out for cheap adapters. When I got my board I picked up a couple of DVI-VGA adapters (just the port) off eBay which I tried with a regular VGA cable (attach adapter to board, attach VGA cable to adapter and monitor). The result was a blank monitor. I fired off an email to Mike stating that I thought the board might be broken and inbetween bouncing some emails back and forth I visited Walmart and saw a straight DVI-VGA monitor cable. I bought it, took it home, connected it and immediately got a perfect picture.
Meanwhile those port adapters have refused to work with any cables on any machines (PCs included).
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Did you measure the connectin diagram of the non-working vs the working ones?
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Did you measure the connectin diagram of the non-working vs the working ones?
No, I threw them into a corner and let them gather dust. :)
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Of course, existing board owners who have been waiting for the daughterboard will be first. I can't promise 060s at the moment though (well, I can but not the final mask set).
/MikeJ
NIce. What would be the difference between the final mask and the one you can supply with the daughterboard ? What would be a guesstimate for shipping daughterboard ?
//Espen
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There's more info here: http://www.fpgaarcade.com/dev/drupal/?q=node/5 and several hundred pages back :)
Looking at that same spec's page, I see:
P22 DVI output (HDMI + analogue video for SCART/VGA)
Does this mean I can also get 15KHz analog RGB output via the DVI connector since it mentions Scart?
I use a Sony PVM with all my stuff and it would be great to also use it via 15k RGB with a FPGA Replay board. Or build a cable and use it with a Commodore 1084s and etc.
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Looking at that same spec's page, I see:
Does this mean I can also get 15KHz analog RGB output via the DVI connector since it mentions Scart?
I use a Sony PVM with all my stuff and it would be great to also use it via 15k RGB with a FPGA Replay board. Or build a cable and use it with a Commodore 1084s and etc.
Yes - I use a DVI to VGA adapter on the board then a "standard" VGA to Scart.
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@broken
Some 1084S monitors have a VGA connector on the back. I suppose all the ones from the last production run had them?
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Are the other nonAmiga cores compatible with the 060 daughtercard?
Like lets say I want to try out the Atari 2600 core and play some great oldsk00l Activision games (yes Activision used to make awesome games). Would my "Atari 2600" function correctly with a big bad monster 060 card bolted on top?
Does any Atari 2600 core even exist?
If not then please substitute ColecoVision or C64 in the above paragraph.
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ChaosLord,
Who has quoted you this?
There is no pricing for the daughterboard yet. Please mail me privately.
If you are outside the EU then you will pay no VAT - although you may pay import duty.
The guide price for the main board (from me) is expected therefore to be 199EU (without comp/svhs) or 229-239EU with. Exact pricing is dependant on import duty and final manufacture cost, and may vary between runs with exchange rate.
I would make this 270 USD for the base board + shipping.
If the board is from one of my resellers, they then charge for integration, cases and support etc so the price will be higer.
/MikeJ
The price he was quoted might be because he has clearly signalled his intense desperation with all the "me me me" and "don't care how much, get me on the list" type posts :-)
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Are the other nonAmiga cores compatible with the 060 daughtercard?
Like lets say I want to try out the Atari 2600 core and play some great oldsk00l Activision games (yes Activision used to make awesome games). Would my "Atari 2600" function correctly with a big bad monster 060 card bolted on top?
Does any Atari 2600 core even exist?
If not then please substitute ColecoVision or C64 in the above paragraph.
Does that even make sense?
What part of a VCS2600 was even remotely 68k based!?
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Does that even make sense?
What part of a VCS2600 was even remotely 68k based!?
I think he just wants verification that other cores will not be operationally affected by the presence of the '060 board.
I don't see how they would - the core would not be configured to interface with it, so there would be no problem. However if that other core made use of its own daughterboard there could be trouble, unless the daughterboard identifies itself to the FPGA and the core can then ignore non-matching daughterboards.
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@MikeJ, Perhaps some simple means to identify the FPGA mainboard and daughterboard might be a good idea to avoid feature electronic mayham ;)
Ie some small jumpers or serial eeprom (or shiftregister with jumpers).
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If I use an Atari 800 core there is only 1 game I would want to play on it. That is M.U.L.E. with all 4 joystick ports at a M.U.L.E. party. The C64 version has much better music but 2 of the players must use the keyboard during the auctions. Letting everyone have their own joystick on the Atari 800 is much kewler.
We would plug in all 4 joysticks into the Replay... woops... there are only 2 joystick ports.... Ok so obviously the Atari 800 core, being highly professional and containing all needed features, would look to the daughterboard for the other 2 joystick ports.
My Elite 68060 daughterboard should supply joystick ports 3 and 4 because a bunch of Amiga games use them... but it does not... so the Atari Core just starts sending out a bunch of signals that make no sense to my 68060 daughterboard and everything would then go berzerk. :) This is what I am trying to avoid.
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I thought there is a possibility to connect 2 joysticks to one port..
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How many ppl have Replays already? Isn't it like 30 ppl? Where are all these ppl? Do they have some secret meeting place where they hang out and laff at all us oldsk00l A1200 lamers? :lol:
The reason I ask is because if I am going to drop $1436.00 on a fully loaded Retro Replay Business Computer then I should probably make sure my game actually works on the Replay first. Free download from Aminet here if anyone out there has a Replay and they want to check if it works:
http://aminet.net/package/game/strat/TotalChaosAGAr6 (http://aminet.net/package/game/strat/TotalChaosAGAr6)
It really should work. It is fully AmigaOS compliant and has been tested on a wide range of systems. The only thing I am worried about is maybe if the Paula core has a tiny flaw in it then the music playback could go berzerk. Mostly Octamed Sound Studio .meds and some good old protracker mods but modified to use a 1 line DMA-wait.
I don't use any weird instructions like movep. I don't use weirdo lame addressing modes. I don't even use bitfield instructions. But I suppose maybe SASC might generate those in weird situations? I doubt it but who knows? I don't use any atomic Read-Modify-Write instructions. So I am figuring it should work on the softcore cpu. On the other hand, it is over 200,000 lines of code so...
There is a bug in the game so that soundfx playback can fail on SFS partitions. Use FFS, PFS3 or ask me for the patch that fixes the problem.
Any place I could go to ask a Replay playtester to give it a quick test?
If there are any bugs, well... I have the source code to the whole game and a super powerful professional Source Level Debugger which displays both C and Asm sources simultaneously so I might be able to zoom right in on the problem and file a competent bug report.
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I'd be happy to test it for you, but I'm away from home for the next 4 weeks. Remind me next month and I'll try it for you if nobody else has managed it.
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If there are any compatibility problems, I will do my best to fix them.
When the new core is out there will probably be a whole load of initial issues, so we go into bug-squashing mode. I have a board with external 68K I can run to see if it's a problem with the CPU (I can actually run both CPUs and diff them in real time).
I can also probe and capture any internal state with the JTAG FPGA debugger, so as long as we can get a trigger condition, and can reproduce the fault, it's normally fairly easy to fix problems.
/MikeJ
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If there are any compatibility problems, I will do my best to fix them.
When the new core is out there will probably be a whole load of initial issues, so we go into bug-squashing mode. I have a board with external 68K I can run to see if it's a problem with the CPU (I can actually run both CPUs and diff them in real time).
I can also probe and capture any internal state with the JTAG FPGA debugger, so as long as we can get a trigger condition, and can reproduce the fault, it's normally fairly easy to fix problems.
/MikeJ
And I'm ready to start testing when you are...
;)
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I have a board with external 68K I can run to see if it's a problem with the CPU (I can actually run both CPUs and diff them in real time).
I can also probe and capture any internal state with the JTAG FPGA debugger...
Wow! my hero :bowdown:
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How many ppl have Replays already? Isn't it like 30 ppl? Where are all these ppl? Do they have some secret meeting place where they hang out and laff at all us oldsk00l A1200 lamers? :lol:
The reason I ask is because if I am going to drop $1436.00 on a fully loaded Retro Replay Business Computer then I should probably make sure my game actually works on the Replay first. Free download from Aminet here if anyone out there has a Replay and they want to check if it works:
http://aminet.net/package/game/strat/TotalChaosAGAr6 (http://aminet.net/package/game/strat/TotalChaosAGAr6)
It really should work. It is fully AmigaOS compliant and has been tested on a wide range of systems. The only thing I am worried about is maybe if the Paula core has a tiny flaw in it then the music playback could go berzerk. Mostly Octamed Sound Studio .meds and some good old protracker mods but modified to use a 1 line DMA-wait.
I don't use any weird instructions like movep. I don't use weirdo lame addressing modes. I don't even use bitfield instructions. But I suppose maybe SASC might generate those in weird situations? I doubt it but who knows? I don't use any atomic Read-Modify-Write instructions. So I am figuring it should work on the softcore cpu. On the other hand, it is over 200,000 lines of code so...
There is a bug in the game so that soundfx playback can fail on SFS partitions. Use FFS, PFS3 or ask me for the patch that fixes the problem.
Any place I could go to ask a Replay playtester to give it a quick test?
If there are any bugs, well... I have the source code to the whole game and a super powerful professional Source Level Debugger which displays both C and Asm sources simultaneously so I might be able to zoom right in on the problem and file a competent bug report.
I have one -- I have had it for quite some time. 2 years or so ?
At the moment it is just in the drawer. I am waiting for the daughterboard.
If someone really want to -- I could part with it and buy a new one when the daughterboard comes out as I will not use it before that anyway. Hwoever, this is a board which is one of the first 10 boards. It is even before mike started serialnumbering them :)
Someone make me an offer....the important thing is that if someone can use it, it is important so it goes to someone who needs it. :) I can wait for a new one...
Espskog
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The FPGA can pretend the keyboard input comes from 3rd and 4th joystick which can be wired to the GPIO port. No need for Atari 800 ;)
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What for to wait for new one if you have old one there?
Any important differences between your prototype and final version?
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I have no idea when Replays will go on sale so I just sort of casually started shopping for bits and pieces to make my Ultimate Tactical Assault Replay Business Computer of Death(tm).
Here is a 32GB Micro SDHC card for $14.39 with promo code, limit 5 per customer. And Free shipping.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313184&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL022113&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL022113-_-EMC-022113-Index-_-FlashMemory-_-20313184-L016A (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313184&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL022113&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL022113-_-EMC-022113-Index-_-FlashMemory-_-20313184-L016A)
Would that be acceptable for use in a Replay? Yes/no/maybe/depends?
- its only 32GB
+ its cheap at $14.39 so even a poor lamer like me can afford it :laugh1:
+ it doesn't feel like I am getting raped by the exchange rate. :rofl:
If it will work... what would be the advantages of buying multiple ones?
All u guys out there who have CF cards and such on ur Amiga, how many cards do u use and what do u use them for?
Would this card work on both the Replay board itself and/or the daughtercard? (atm I am all mixed up about it... trying to remember... my brain have a stack overflow :)
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After a brief check it seems like the 64GB versions are $41.00 and the 128GB versions are $100.00 so the 32GB cards give the most GB per $
So even though I need and can use 128GB storage space I will probably just buy the 32GB ones since they are dirt cheap. I will try to survive with a tiny hard drive... I just hafta decide how many to buy....
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Would that be acceptable for use in a Replay? Yes/no/maybe/depends?
It's only a class 4 card which only guarantees a minimum or 4MB/s. 28MB/s has been quoted for max transfer rate. Highly unlikely you'd hit that but I'd go for a class 10 to make the most of it. Cheap cards tend to be a waste of money. I'd rather get a smaller card of higher quality.
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It's only a class 4 card which only guarantees a minimum or 4MB/s. 28MB/s has been quoted for max transfer rate. Highly unlikely you'd hit that but I'd go for a class 10 to make the most of it. Cheap cards tend to be a waste of money. I'd rather get a smaller card of higher quality.
Aha! Thanx for the tip!
I am happy to pay extra $ for extra quality. A 28MB/s hard drive would be more fun to drive around than a 4MB/s one even though it'll probably cost twice as much :)
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Note it is around 28Mbit/sec from the SD card in SPI mode. Limitation is ARM and SD card max clock freq.
One reason we are looking an FPGA directly connected card on the daughterboard for bulk access.
/MikeJ
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@cunnpole
This one is only $20.00 for 72 hours. 32GB of space. Writes up to 35 MB/s and reads up to 50 MB/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178536&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL022113&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL022113-_-EMC-022113-Index-_-FlashMemory-_-20178536-L016B (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178536&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL022113&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL022113-_-EMC-022113-Index-_-FlashMemory-_-20178536-L016B)
20 bucks seems cheap enuff.
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@cunnpole
This one is only $20.00 for 72 hours. 32GB of space. Writes up to 35 MB/s and reads up to 50 MB/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178536&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL022113&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL022113-_-EMC-022113-Index-_-FlashMemory-_-20178536-L016B (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178536&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL022113&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL022113-_-EMC-022113-Index-_-FlashMemory-_-20178536-L016B)
20 bucks seems cheap enuff.
The ARM does not support UHS speed, so I would recommend getting a standard class10 card.
/MikeJ
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@cunnpole
This one is only $20.00 for 72 hours. 32GB of space. Writes up to 35 MB/s and reads up to 50 MB/s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178536&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL022113&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL022113-_-EMC-022113-Index-_-FlashMemory-_-20178536-L016B
20 bucks seems cheap enuff.
sdcard speeds are a bunch of hocum
"Speed Classes 2, 4, and 6 assert that the card supports the respective number of megabytes per second as a minimum sustained write speed for a card in a fragmented state. Class 10 asserts that the card supports 10 MB/s as a minimum non-fragmented sequential write speed."
So for that card, the most they guarantee is 10MB/S for writes. In some circumstances it might write at 35 MB/s, but it will never write faster than that. While reads will never be faster than 50 MB/s, but they don't guarantee a minimum.
A lot of cards have areas that are slower than others, so as long as it's pretty empty then you won't notice it slow down. While sdcards are ok for digital cameras and camcorders where files are written, read and deleted. They aren't so great for computers where you might seek into the middle of a file and overwrite some bytes. This causes flash memory to reallocate blocks, even though the file system might have no fragmentation the underlying flash will be fragmented and there is nothing you can do about it.
"UHS Speed Class 1" doesn't seem to mean anything in terms of storage speed, it's purely the interface speed. Kind of like having an ultra scsi floppy drive.
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@ChaosLord
Samsung - 8GB (class10) for $8 seems even cheaper ;)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147152
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@mikej, Does FPGA Arcade implement 4-bit parallel mode?
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Class 10 asserts that the card supports 10 MB/s as a minimum non-fragmented sequential write speed.
Thanks I hadn't noticed the dodgy rating fudge for class 10. It seems to be quite difficult to find random read/write benchmarks for sd cards. The best I've seen is for high end digital cameras with little detail on the testing methodology (was the card new or had it already been used, etc.):
Writes:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/camera_wb_multi_page.asp?cid=6007-10549
Reads:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/reader_report_all.asp?cid=6007-9438&card_type=SD
It does give you a general idea of contiguous allocation/read speeds and the overheads of each reader device.
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@mikej, Does FPGA Arcade implement 4-bit parallel mode?
mmm, well one would need a license to implement. I have wired all the required pins up to the ARM. The ARM does not support 4-bit mode with it's SPI peripheral so you would have to use the GPIO pins and bit-bang it. With a tight loop it may well be faster, and is something for future experimentation.
This is why the SSC bus (high speed serial) is wired up to the FPGA as well as the SPI bus, and this can be clocked faster than the SPI bus. So, you would 4-bit copy from the SD card into ARM while DMAing the previous block out over the SSC bus.
/MikeJ
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Thanks I hadn't noticed the dodgy rating fudge for class 10. It seems to be quite difficult to find random read/write benchmarks for sd cards.
Yes it is, although there are some vague recommendations for really expensive sd cards. However I've used identically branded sandisk sd cards that had performance at different ends of the spectrum. The only difference between them was where they were manufactured. So you can't even assume that because someone finds and reviews a card as being good that you'll have the same experience.
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So you can't even assume that because someone finds and reviews a card as being good that you'll have the same experience.
Joy...
It's mostly SanDisk Extreme 45MB/s SDHC cards that I'm buying at the moment. I can't say I've had a bad one yet. I guess we'll just have to suck it and see. Mike which cards do you use?
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Sandisk 4G class IV at the moment I pick up in bulk from a lady in Shenzhen.
You get the choice of "fake" or "not-fake" when you buy them, so who knows what they really are ;) Seem to work fine though.
/Mike
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mmm, well one would need a license to implement. I have wired all the required pins up to the ARM. The ARM does not support 4-bin mode with it's SPI peripheral so you would have to use the GPIO pins and bit-bang it. With a tight loop it may well be faster, and is something for future experimentation.
This is why the SSC bus (high speed serial) is wired up to the FPGA as well as the SPI bus, and this can be clocked faster than the SPI bus. So, you would 4-bit copy from the SD card into ARM while DMAing the previous block out over the SSC bus.
So no need to license wiring for a 4-bit interface. But an implementation needs license, correct?
Would it be a mess to wire the FPGA to access the SD-card 4-bit interface? ie no GPIO left..
(sw "updates" can then be distributed less official ;))
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Note it is around 28Mbit/sec from the SD card in SPI mode. Limitation is ARM and SD card max clock freq.
So we can only get around 2.8MB/sec hard drive transfers which I think is about 2x the speed of an A1200 with an IDEfix attached. So I can only write games that are twice as big as an A1200 game before I get accused of slow-loading "bloatware" :lol:
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So, the end of february is finally here! Any news on the production run? :)
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... or maybe a planned/draft roadmap including 060 daughterboard would be fine ;)
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So, the end of february is finally here! Any news on the production run? :)
Should build em Friday....
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Base boards on Friday? Daughterboard .. "future" ;)
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Should build em Friday....
Coool, Did they ever make that production video or did someone eat it?
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Coool, Did they ever make that production video or did someone eat it?
I never received it, and am using a different assembler now.
I am promised photos at least - will ask if they can film the placement.
/MikeJ
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Allright! Way to go! So maybe in a month or so they will be shipping? :)
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No news from the factory yet? How long does these kind of things take?
How many boards was ordered?
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No news from the factory yet? How long does these kind of things take?
How many boards was ordered?
I talk to the production people every day.
It takes a fairly long time the first few goes, it usually gets smother later.
100 being built first out of a 500 run.
/Mike
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As I see the production got started already so when we may expect to have it in our hands?
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As I see the production got started already so when we may expect to have it in our hands?
It's quite good actually production has started, it's making me focus on production test and sorting out the remaining issues with the firmware.
Status as of today (7th March).
All components are in place at the assembler and they have started SMD work today. They will finish by mid next week. Some work remains, like sourcing packaging, inspection and shipping back to Sweden - and customs/import stuff. I should get them in my hands towards the end of the month, then they can be shipped to customers.
The development framework (VHDL + ARM code) is working well. DRAM training and test is in place. I can load large files directly from SD to memory and then verify the DRAM contents against the file.
The test "loader" design which contains the full system (OSD, system control, memory controller, PS/2, video/audio outputs) compiles in less than 20 seconds and has full timing closure at 133MHz (266Mbit on the DRAM). The OSD is in colour and higher resolution (32x16) with soft scroll.
Now I have fixed the problem with the DRAM clock capture, I have a very wide operating eye. This also means I can test and ship the ~30 boards I have here already which were not working with the old core.
Work remains on dynamic menus for other cores, but this should be finished in the next day or so.
Oh, FDD and HDD are not implemented yet as the protocol has changed. I will fix this asap ;)
I'll be rolling out beta cores to current board owners in the next week - if everything goes smoothly.
/MikeJ
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Awesome news there Mike! Thanks for these updates.
Can't wait :)
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\o/
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I'll be rolling out beta cores to current board owners in the next week - if everything goes smoothly.
/MikeJ
Thank you!!! :)
Although I won't get to test it until the 23rd.
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Hoho! I can test the new core as soon as it's released! My board is ready for some love!! :D
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Thanks Mike !!!!!
I love to test out the new core om my board ;-)
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Thanks for the update!
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That's really good news, Thanks Mike !!
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Great news, Mike. Will you put the core for DL at your web site ?
PS! Any new FW updates aswell or can I use the one I have ?
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Maybe the core release has been delayed again?
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Maybe the core release has been delayed again?
Espskog,
You will need new ARM firmware as well, both will be available from the website when available. Yes, a few issues still, we will see where we are tomorrow.
/MikeJ
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Hello guys, is this good enough for the daughterboard ( XC68060RC50 rev1 with FPU and MMU working @66MHz ), or should i look for rev 6 ?
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As long as the OS software can deal with the bugs in the earlier chips, anything should work fine. It will not run as fast, and will run hotter, but enough power is available and the clocking is flexible.
/MikeJ
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If you provide the latest rev 6, i would choose to buy from you... have you manage to find anything like that, or should us, future fpga replay/daughterboard buyers, keep looking for that 68060 version? thanks for the reply.
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If you provide the latest rev 6, i would choose to buy from you... have you manage to find anything like that, or should us, future fpga replay/daughterboard buyers, keep looking for that 68060 version? thanks for the reply.
Still working on it. Getting new MC early rev devices (non-XC) is no problem, just not the bug-free latest mask set :(
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Are you able to give us an idea of the cost of a '2nd best' 060? I see a few go on ebay from time to time for £50-60 (excluding the insanely priced ones) but not sure how this compares to the oriental prices.
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@MikeJ: The core update beta was announced for release two weeks ago. Is there another delay? Could you briefly explain the problems? (if you have the time)
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A quick status update of the production run would be nice too! :)
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I havent read through the entire thread, but when are these available for sale? I would love to get back into something like this if the price isn't all crazy.
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I'm (and many others) also happy to hear some news, or status report or planned roadmap ;) (including 060 daughterboard, and new core).
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I'm (and many others) also happy to hear some news, or status report or planned roadmap ;) (including 060 daughterboard, and new core).
Indeed, an update is due. No problems, just things are taking longer than I predicted - as usual.
The SMD production is complete, they are hand soldering the connectors etc. Waiting for boxes to be printed, but the boards should leave the factory by mid-week.
I'm taking advantage of the time to sort out some other aspects of the code.
Merging in some updates from other branches, testing the cache/prefetch logic with the new DRAM controller etc.
The codebase is a major change from the minimig project, large chunks are completely new and specific to the Replay board - as is the ARM controller firmware.
There are two reasons for this. One is to optimize and clean up the code for other cores - as much as possible should be common between the Amiga and Atari implementations for example. The other is to tidy up timing issues and get the compile time and area down. There are a lot of Xilinx optimizations, which will probably upset people as they can't just use the code on other boards - but my aim is to get the cleanest, fastest solution for my board.
Finally, building for production test, for example not just memory tests but eye scan so I can be sure the memory is working with good margin for voltage / temperature etc.
Finally, as I have completely re-written all the FD/HD/OSD code and protocol there is a bit of debug to be done there as well.
/MikeJ
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Great news Mike ;)
Thanks a lot for your update status ;)
I hope receiving this new firmware soon for testing and making videos ;)
See you later ;)
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I would just like to register my interest in this product: please put me on the list for one!
Thanks...:angel:
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Do you use DCM to adjust the DRAM clock signal?
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Do you use DCM to adjust the DRAM clock signal?
Yes, exactly. The output timing is fixed.
There is no need to use the DQS strobes for capture at these speeds.
There is a careful handover of return valid internally and then a phase change FIFO to capture the data. These params are adjustable during DRAM training, however I have found I can fix them to a common value across all boards, the margins are so large.
/Mike
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@ MikeJ:
Any chance if that new core in the next week? If not then I'll be away at work for another 4 weeks. I need my FPGA Arcade fix. ;)
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@ MikeJ:
Any chance if that new core in the next week? If not then I'll be away at work for another 4 weeks. I need my FPGA Arcade fix. ;)
mmm Not sure it will be 100% stable. It's close, mail me mid week.
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Yeah! Nice update MikeJ! Thanks!
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Hi all,
Im really intrested on buying one of this boards, is there any contact information? I sent an email some days ago, but no response yet....
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Sorry, bit behind with emails.
Update ...
Production is complete now. It is raining in Shenzhen and this is delaying the cardboard box delivery. The boards should be shipped out end of the week.
This means I get a little longer to keep playing with the core. It's all good though as I am working on fixing the cache and prefetch logic. The DRAM controller is designed for the daughterboard and has a 32 bit data path for efficiency. This means a bit of logic an endian-ness fiddling is required to attach it to the 68K softcore.
To fully test this, the VHDL testbench now loads an srec file directly into the DRAM at start up and I simulate the processor running with various tests, stalls, refresh etc.
/MikeJ
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Sounds good. Hope that we start seeing some videos on YouTube soon of the new cores running on the finished hardware!
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Completely OT: How does one find food in China that one dears to eat without getting lead or other slowly poisons?
(I read the party people has their own organisation for this purpose out of reach for ordinary people)
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Completely OT: How does one find food in China that one dears to eat without getting lead or other slowly poisons?
(I read the party people has their own organisation for this purpose out of reach for ordinary people)
When I worked over there we had a KFC, a McDonalds, an Irish pub that served fish n chips and a French steakhouse all within walking distance of the office. :-)
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It's improved a lot, some really good food in SZ.
It's the street dumplings you need to watch, they seem like a good idea after a few beers - and very tasty. They can fight back though ;)
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The DRAM controller is designed for the daughterboard and has a 32 bit data path for efficiency. This means a bit of logic an endian-ness fiddling is required to attach it to the 68K softcore.
As long as the ram is only accessed by one cpu then the ram is endian agnostic.
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Could it be possible to get some kind of short product information?
I would be interestd performance, with and without 060 module.
What are possibilites with graphics.
IO possibilities
RAM
etc.
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When I worked over there we had a KFC, a McDonalds, an Irish pub that served fish n chips and a French steakhouse all within walking distance of the office. :-)
Lead, pesticides, motor oil and other spices included free of charge? :P
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As long as the ram is only accessed by one cpu then the ram is endian agnostic.
Sort of - you have the ARM direct memory access, the video controller and other bits and bobs. The 68060 has pretty strong ideas about which byte enable correspond to which bits, which my memory controller happens to disagree with. Then, the problem of 16 bit vs 32 bit access to the memories.
As a hardware designer, little endian is a whole load easier, byte 0 stays where it is no matter what the access size.
/MikeJ
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Lead, pesticides, motor oil and other spices included free of charge? :P
They come standard with KFC and McDonalds. They wouldn't taste the same without them. :D
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Some production pics on the "old" website :
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
/MikeJ
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Some production pics on the "old" website :
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
/MikeJ
Oooo we're getting fancy boxes too? I just thought you were referring to the packing crates. Very nice.
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Just dip them in expoxy and packing + boxing is done in one go. Or was that "goo" ? ;)
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@mikej:
When can the users who registered interest expect payment details?
Seems we're close now?
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Very nice the boards indeed, but is there any way to buy one?
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Very nice the boards indeed, but is there any way to buy one?
ha ha, soon!
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Some production pics on the "old" website :
www.fpgaarcade.com (http://www.fpgaarcade.com)
/MikeJ
Man, that is looking sweet Mike. This project has come a long way from inception. I cannot wait to get this board and 060 card!!!!:banana:
Mike
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Very nice the boards indeed, but is there any way to buy one?
good question. I'm going to check the Atari sites, I suspect those are earmarked for Atari users :)
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*waves cash* where's my board? ;)
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The chinese ate it :P
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Has anyone else thought of putting their fpga arcade in a laptop case?
Is it possible?
Maybe with something like this?
http://stores.ebay.com/njytouch/LCD-controller-board-kits-DIY-/_i.html?_fsub=2982811018
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Or perhaps an motorola atrix lapdock could work. People have connected all sorts of things to those, raspberry pi's and wii's etc.
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Hmm...I have a spare a3000 desktop case here. Maybe that would be a cool place for one of these :)
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For laptop:
* Any suitable discharge circuits that protect against too high discharge both momentarily and level?
* Perhaps someone has the skill to implement cosine transform scaling? and appropriate LVDS interface? for a direct flatscreen interface.
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Or perhaps an motorola atrix lapdock could work. People have connected all sorts of things to those, raspberry pi's and wii's etc.
I have one of those. could not pass it up for $30. Not done anything with it yet. still waiting for the HDMI adapter. The one I ordered from china got lost. I think my work accepted it and then it got lost, so i just need to order a new one.
I would like to use it with galaxy phone s3...
MOT quit making atrix dock but they make one that is generic and have seen that one go for $75-$100.
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If we assume this to be a success - and it becomes the Amiga that never was available for upgrade after AGA - could we have a chance of seeing an "Amiga personality" addonn board? I'm thinking for stuff like real floppy ports, a SCSI connector (either 3000 or 4000T like), nvram if 3000 mode, clockport, and realtime clock.
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Looks really nice, I have managed to convince the lady of the house (bribery included!) can we order one soon please ???
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status update? =)
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status update? =)
Complete, boxed up and on their way out of China.
/MikeJ
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he says like nothing special happened...
DANCING BANANA OVERLOAD!! THIS IS MAJOR! :D
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he says like nothing special happened...
DANCING BANANA OVERLOAD!! THIS IS MAJOR! :D
They have to get to me, and work, before I am happy ;)
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Bah, so rational! ;)
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Sorry if its a silly question or answered elsewhere but will there be an aga core for this or ecs only?
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Sorry if its a silly question or answered elsewhere but will there be an aga core for this or ecs only?
AGA, although there are some compatibility issues with it yet to be resolved.
/MikeJ
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Thanks for the reply :)
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Complete, boxed up and on their way out of China.
/MikeJ
Where will it be available for purchase? Amigakit or ...
I'll be getting one of those X500 keyboard/cases soon. Together, they will make a nice "new" A500/A1200 tribute machine.
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I have an FPGA Board from the last batch, and I was wondering... are there any differences between the boards from the last batch and these new ones?
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There were shipments?. Or are you talking about the first boards mike released?.
On the other hand, Mike, when will you begin shipments?. I'm extremely anxious for the board :)
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I have an FPGA Board from the last batch, and I was wondering... are there any differences between the boards from the last batch and these new ones?
The USB mouse and keyboard adapter comes to mind. Mike said that this is something that could be retrofitted it the old boards are returned to him.
If the X500 keyboard needs a USB port then I'll probably have to do this.
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Has been a batch besides the first beta boards released?. I'm in the list of interested people and haven't received any info.
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I guess he haven't sent out any info yet. I think he wants to make sure the boards works as expected before doing that.
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@_TheCrow: I have a beta board, from the last batch he released. I fact I got three boards, one is mine and the other two are in the hands of friends, waiting for the new cores.
@Darring & MikeJ: We are not worried about the lack of USB connectors for now but, have been other fixes to the boards themselves since last batch, like fixes, etc?
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@gaula92
But were these boards from the first batch where some of theis forum got one as well, like darrinn, or was a second batch?. I'm asking because i'm long time in mike's list for a board.
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I've no idea what batch my board came from... it has been so long! It still works though so it was definately made to last. It hasn't even got a case, it just sits ontop of the desk with cables hanging off it.
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I've no idea what batch my board came from... it has been so long! It still works though so it was definately made to last. It hasn't even got a case, it just sits ontop of the desk with cables hanging off it.
Personally, the only computer I have with the case completely closed is a Power mac G4 (and then only because the processor doesn't get cooled unless the case is shut - typical stupid Apple design).
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I've no idea what batch my board came from... it has been so long! It still works though so it was definately made to last. It hasn't even got a case, it just sits ontop of the desk with cables hanging off it.
There are RevA boards - with the single joystick connectors on the back. There are only four of these with developers.
RevB1 (around 20 exist), with double height joystick and option of SVHS/Composite vid.
RevB2 (around 50 exist) is the same, but with the spacing between the DVI and audio jack improved, as well as a fix for DVI power backfeed (powering the board through the monitor basically).
RevB2 batch2 (100) is currently on it's way from China. Exactly the same as B2 but with FCC logo on the board as well.
New firmware supports all RevB boards.
It's printed on the top of the board, Darrin you have a B1 I think.
The new USB adapter replaces the PS2 connector and can be fitted on any all RevB boards.
/MikeJ
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There are RevA boards - with the single joystick connectors on the back. There are only four of these with developers.
RevB1 (around 20 exist), with double height joystick and option of SVHS/Composite vid.
RevB2 (around 50 exist) is the same, but with the spacing between the DVI and audio jack improved, as well as a fix for DVI power backfeed (powering the board through the monitor basically).
RevB2 batch2 (100) is currently on it's way from China. Exactly the same as B2 but with FCC logo on the board as well.
New firmware supports all RevB boards.
It's printed on the top of the board, Darrin you have a B1 I think.
The new USB adapter replaces the PS2 connector and can be fitted on any all RevB boards.
/MikeJ
So are these 100 revB2 batch2 already sold?
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There are RevA boards - with the single joystick connectors on the back. There are only four of these with developers.
RevB1 (around 20 exist), with double height joystick and option of SVHS/Composite vid.
RevB2 (around 50 exist) is the same, but with the spacing between the DVI and audio jack improved, as well as a fix for DVI power backfeed (powering the board through the monitor basically).
RevB2 batch2 (100) is currently on it's way from China. Exactly the same as B2 but with FCC logo on the board as well.
New firmware supports all RevB boards.
It's printed on the top of the board, Darrin you have a B1 I think.
The new USB adapter replaces the PS2 connector and can be fitted on any all RevB boards.
/MikeJ
That's for that Mike. Yep, I have the RevB1 because I remember you mentioning something about wanting to increase the space for the audio jack, but I already had connectors that would fit so I wasn't bothered.
I'll be home in 2 weeks... how's the new firmware looking?
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in 2 weeks...
Oh God, you said the cursed line again! We're doomed!
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Oh God, you said the cursed line again! We're doomed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5WcDpkKMoc
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The new USB adapter replaces the PS2 connector and can be fitted on any all RevB boards.
/MikeJ
So no possibility of using an A4000 keyboard anymore?
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So no possibility of using an A4000 keyboard anymore?
You can always wire up a connector onto the spare IO pads if you are handy with a soldering iron. I maybe able to fit a header as an option during ordering.
Will look into this.
/Mike
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You can always wire up a connector onto the spare IO pads if you are handy with a soldering iron. I maybe able to fit a header as an option during ordering.
Will look into this.
Or maybe we need an A4000 to USB keyboard interface.
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Oh God, you said the cursed line again! We're doomed!
:(
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Or maybe we need an A4000 to USB keyboard interface.
Yuk, then you have two back-to-back USB translators. It would work, but neater to speak keyboard directly.
/Mike
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Mike, when will you ship to those of us on the list?.
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Mike, when will you ship to those of us on the list?.
It depends how long it takes to get to me and clear customs.
It's over 40KG of boards, so it's going to take a while.
/Mike
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It depends how long it takes to get to me and clear customs.
It's over 40KG of boards, so it's going to take a while.
/Mike
MikeJ,
How do I get on the list for one of these?
Thanks,
Bob
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@rdolores:
Read you PM and you'll have the answer ;)
Thanks, Faranheit (who is waiting the new exciting firmware release :) )
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@mikej will all the people on your list be able to get onefrom this batch? In 3 days I'm 2 years on your list, and I'd hate to miss out on this round. :D
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Read you PM and you'll have the answer ;)
I'm interested too, I did send a mail or pm to mikej a while back but I don't know if I got on the list.
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yup, everybody who has mailed me will be contacted once I know the yield.
Not all are sold, mail (don't pm)
mikej at fpgaarcade dot com
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I'm amazed you don't have a longer queue... Whenever you want to seriously boost interest, just write a blog post or something about the current status, and I'm sure you'll get help getting it posted various places.
E.g. Reddit, Hackernews would both probably have quite a few people who'd love to get their hands on one, including people not that interested in the Amiga cores but that would love to hack on various other platforms..
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I think there might be point in not writing too much about it yet as that will make it possible for people interested in creating software (cores) and addons to develop those. Otherwise there's a risk of all units going to a lot of people who's only interest is to have the latest gadget.
I somehow think the current batch will be sold without any problem ;)
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Im interested too. Have just sent a mail to Mike...
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Me to, and I have mailed MikeJ's mail
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Me to, and I have mailed MikeJ's mail
Yes, I have received quite a few mail. I will try and respond to you all.
I have added everybody onto the list.
Obviously I don't know how many are free until they are tested and people tell me if they still want them or not - so I'll just work down it when they arrive.
I will kick of another batch as soon as these are tested, so there will be lots soon.
/MikeJ
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Our classic amiga saviour :D
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Our classic amiga saviour :D
It's good to see people realizing AT LAST that the classic Amiga future lies in FPGAs and not in ridiculously expensive expansions for aging hardware.
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Thanks!, Merci!, Gracias!, Danke!, Diky!
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It's good to see people realizing AT LAST that the classic Amiga future lies in FPGAs and not in ridiculously expensive expansions for aging hardware.
The problem here lies not in the hardware implementation, but in the mindsets of the people building that ridiculously expensive hardware I think...
It boggles my mind that an awesome hand built all in one solution like this is cheaper in materials and labor than a zorro 3 ethernet card or AGA scandoubler...
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The problem here lies not in the hardware implementation, but in the mindsets of the people building that ridiculously expensive hardware I think...
It boggles my mind that an awesome hand built all in one solution like this is cheaper in materials and labor than a zorro 3 ethernet card or AGA scandoubler...
if you have a low demand and a even lower supply you get high prices...
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It boggles my mind that an awesome hand built all in one solution like this is cheaper in materials and labor than a zorro 3 ethernet card or AGA scandoubler...
It's not going to be cheaper than those
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1085
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=250
You're lucky that mikej was able to afford the time and money to do this. But I expect he'll want to recover that when he starts selling them.
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It's not going to be cheaper than those
You're lucky that mikej was able to afford the time and money to do this. But I expect he'll want to recover that when he starts selling them.
I will not recover the time or NRE costs - if I was to factor in my time as I would when I am consulting or doing my day job (ASIC/FPGA design), then there would be no way this would even cover costs, never mind any return on investment.
I wish it was finished a while ago too, but I have to squeeze it around all the stuff which does pay the bills ;)
/MikeJ
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I hope I've replied to all the emails I received - I may have missed a few, but I have a complete record of everything.
I will go though and update my order list, and send out details when stock arrives.
If you don't receive a mail then - and you mailed me before - mail me again then.
I'll work on the website and pop an order button on there soon.
Thanks,
MikeJ
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Awesome, pure and total awesomenessss!
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Update:
I've holding the shipment in Shenzhen as the inspection by my forwarder highlighted some potential problems, specifically a few boards with the wrong build options (some bits missing which shouldn't be).
They have been returned to the assembly plant on Friday for a full audit.
Depending on my confidence level,I will release them tomorrow - or they will have to wait another week until I arrive in China and inspect them.
The freight is very expensive (hundreds of USD) + import tax and VAT etc. I don't want to have to send them back again.
This first large-ish batch is to get the process in place for full production, so I need to be a little cautious otherwise there will not be enough funds to make the next batch ;)
I'll update you as I find out more.
/MikeJ
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Wait until next week and take a large empty suitcase with you :)
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Wait until next week and take a large empty suitcase with you :)
I did consider that, but the excess baggage fee for ~60Kg would be not funny ;)
actually, it's not bad. Something to thing about.
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Perhaps you could pay fellow passengers to carry them? ;)
Suitcase = intelligence prothesis :P
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I did consider that, but the excess baggage fee for ~60Kg would be not funny ;)
actually, it's not bad. Something to thing about.
You should have seen my bags the last time I made a trip from China to the USA. I had 120 premier League football shirts & shorts sets, a set of knock-off golf clubs, more DVDs than Block Buster and a selection of software that would put Game Zone to shame and more trinkets than you would find on a typical pirate ship. :D
I got stopped at customs too buy a US agent who wanted to know what I planned to do with all of those football strips. I told him I was going to wear them. ;)
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I will not recover the time or NRE costs - if I was to factor in my time as I would when I am consulting or doing my day job (ASIC/FPGA design), then there would be no way this would even cover costs, never mind any return on investment.
Yeah I wasn't expecting you to recover your time at your normal rates, it would make this product unaffordable :-) But I would have thought you wouldn't want to make a monetary loss on the whole thing. If you don't mind then please send me my free replay board :D
Jens on the other hand doesn't make a product unless it puts food on the table, which I think is fair.
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I did consider that, but the excess baggage fee for ~60Kg would be not funny ;)
actually, it's not bad. Something to thing about.
Inspection shows they are all correct. An old picture was used by the shipping agent, not one they took of the actual boards!
As I am down there next week I will inspect/bring back what I can and ship the rest.
Exciting times ;)
/MikeJ
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That's nice to hear MikeJ!
Any progress on the softcore?
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many thanks to you for your effort. I think FPGA Arcade is the only bigger 68k retro project that really get "buyable" (in opposite to Natami and many others that were just announced)
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Mike, existing owners?
I can't seem to find specific mention of support for usb joysticks/pads. What level of support can we expect in the short term? Are HID digital pads supported? Can we expect analogue sticks to work? Emulating 9 state digital or full analogue support?
I only ask as I have a stash of amiga/atari DB9 sticks, but only 1 works perfectly. I snapped the last of the spare springs on my QuickJoy sticks...
I've got some PC 15 pin midi port flight sticks too, but I'm guessing i'd need an adapter to DB9 for those.
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Mike, existing owners?
I can't seem to find specific mention of support for usb joysticks/pads. What level of support can we expect in the short term? Are HID digital pads supported? Can we expect analogue sticks to work? Emulating 9 state digital or full analogue support?
I only ask as I have a stash of amiga/atari DB9 sticks, but only 1 works perfectly. I snapped the last of the spare springs on my QuickJoy sticks...
I've got some PC 15 pin midi port flight sticks too, but I'm guessing i'd need an adapter to DB9 for those.
The current core is very close to the original hardware, so only 9PIN digital.
There are analog inputs on the ARM which can be used in future.
The USB adapter adds keyboard and mouse, and can be extended to all sorts of stuff in future.
Cheers,
Mike
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The USB adapter adds keyboard and mouse, and can be extended to all sorts of stuff in future.
Cheers,
Mike
Excellent! Just in time for the X500 Plus and Evo...well done! ;)
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Any news?
What about the 060 daughterboard? It would be nice to hear something about it.
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I'd like to know what happened to the imminent Amiga core release announced months ago. Not in a hurry, but I'm interested in the technical difficulties preventing the release from happening.
thanks!
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I'd like to know what happened to the imminent Amiga core release announced months ago. Not in a hurry, but I'm interested in the technical difficulties preventing the release from happening.
thanks!
Just got back from China. Boards look great, are shipping now out of China following me.
No problems with the core, just got stuck with the logistics and work stuff again. Every time I think I am finished I re-write something else, or found I have broken something.
I am still having problems with the cache and timing path through the DRAM.
Cheers,
Mike
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Just got back from China. Boards look great, are shipping now out of China following me.
This is actually pretty HUGE news dude!
You should be shouting about it more Mike :)
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Has anyone tried Scala MM 400 with the replay board?
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Prediction: It will be shipping any minute now.
Why? Because I finally figured out how to build my own Minimig core for my C-One, so now Sod has no reason to keep me away from an FPGAArcade...
(so sorry guys, _I_ can wait even if I want one)
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so sorry guys, _I_ can wait even if I want one
Perhaps there's something wrong with you? ;)
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Perhaps there's something wrong with you? ;)
I have a C-One. Sometimes I think that is proof enough.
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Hey Mikej...are you saying that the daughterboard is actually going to be in development and reality? You do know Mikej I am going to sell my A1200 and buy FPGA Replay if what you are saying is true. The mere fact I will have a 120 Mhz 060 which is faster than Apollo 1260 @ 120 Mhz in comparison and the fact I can have 128 MB CHIP RAM and the fact it is built into it an RTG allowing me to run SDL games and apps....is ONE BIGGEST reason why this is the biggest upgrade for Amiga classic hardware and a huge entice to get the FPGA Replay. Do you have any idea the price Mikej? Is it going to be the same price as the FPGA Replay? Do you know when it will be available?
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Hey Mikej...are you saying that the daughterboard is actually going to be in development and reality? You do know Mikej I am going to sell my A1200 and buy FPGA Replay if what you are saying is true. The mere fact I will have a 120 Mhz 060 which is faster than Apollo 1260 @ 120 Mhz in comparison and the fact I can have 128 MB CHIP RAM and the fact it is built into it an RTG allowing me to run SDL games and apps....is ONE BIGGEST reason why this is the biggest upgrade for Amiga classic hardware and a huge entice to get the FPGA Replay. Do you have any idea the price Mikej? Is it going to be the same price as the FPGA Replay? Do you know when it will be available?
Yes, the daughterboard is in layout but paused until the main board is shipping.
Jakub has working prototypes and the new layout is pretty similar.
UPS tried to deliver 20Kg of Replay boards today, unfortunately I was out :(
/MikeJ
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/me *waves money* run to that post office!!! =)
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UPS tried to deliver 20Kg of Replay boards today, unfortunately I was out :(
/MikeJ
I think I speak for everyone when I say... gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme :D
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Yes, the daughterboard is in layout but paused until the main board is shipping.
Jakub has working prototypes and the new layout is pretty similar.
UPS tried to deliver 20Kg of Replay boards today, unfortunately I was out :(
/MikeJ
As soon you release the FPGA daughterboard out....I will sell my A1200 and get your FPGA Replay
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i think i speak for everyone when i say... Gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme :d
+100 :d
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I will have a nice 1200 setup in a tower I would want to sell then..
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Hello.
I am interested in the Replay and would like to see how it performs.
What Amiga is to more like?
Thanks.
Also, when these get manufactured, do you think the price will go down?
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hmm is there any line in on the mobo?
will it perhaps be possible to sample through that?
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hmm is there any line in on the mobo?
will it perhaps be possible to sample through that?
Not on the main board, but it has various connectors to add stuff.
There are 4 analogue inputs to the ARM I was going to use for joysticks etc, these may be fast enough for audio, haven't looked at it.
"I am interested in the Replay and would like to see how it performs.
What Amiga is to more like?
Thanks.
Also, when these get manufactured, do you think the price will go down?"
Somewhere around an A1200 with faster CPU, more memory and flicker fixer/hi-res graphics card and enhanced audio.
The price may fall slightly as volume increases, but there is not much margin for this.
Current pricing (to be confirmed) direct from me (board only) is around 239Euro+VAT for the SVHS/Composite and ~200Euro+VAT for the board without SVHS/Composite.
I am just waiting for confirmation of the input tax/duty before I can fix pricing for this batch.
Best,
MikeJ
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Do you guys think it is too fast now to sell my A1200+acceleration for an FPGA Replay without acceleration right now? OH, mikej I have just one question. The FPGA Replay now with the case, power supply the whole set without the daughterboard costs 820 dollars, I am curious how much more additional I need to put to get the daughterboard? Thanks in advance.
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@mikej, Is there coding space in the ARM and time slices left over to make use of its built in A/D ..?
(I guess it might be hard to save to SD-card if it's too busy sampling, otoh there's RAM)
When do you estimate boards will be available for buy?
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@mikej, Is there coding space in the ARM and time slices left over to make use of its built in A/D ..?
(I guess it might be hard to save to SD-card if it's too busy sampling, otoh there's RAM)
Ideally it would be able to emulate a parallel port sampler and one of the zorro based cards so we could use existing software.
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"Ideally it would be able to emulate a parallel port sampler and one of the zorro based cards so we could use existing software."
That would be the best solution, so that we could sample direct in protracker.
The second best solution would maybe be some kind of ahi driver?
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The FPGA Replay now with the case, power supply the whole set without the daughterboard costs 820 dollars,
Wut ?
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Wut ?
Last may mikej had the cost as
"The price for the current boards is 199Euro + VAT for the non-composite/svhs version and 229Euro +VAT with. VAT in Sweden is 25%"
So that is 286.25 euros including the VAT, which is around 370 dollars. I guess you wouldn't pay the VAT if you're outside the EU, but you're going to be paying higher shipping and import duty etc.
I haven't noticed a higher price for the boards but that wouldn't surprise me. No idea what the cost of the case and power supply is, but I thought they used a standard one anyway.
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Well... yes. Pretty hard to add up to 820 bucks. Unless they are gold or something :)
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Well... yes. Pretty hard to add up to 820 bucks. Unless they are gold or something :)
No I actually got the right quote from them saying it is 625 Euro which is equivalent to my currency as 825.
"Vesa FPGA Arcade" Promotion :It includes the FPGA Arcade's board in an Antec Mini ITX Case, the ATX Power adapter, the IO BackPanel, one 8GB SD Card, the 90W external power supply of the Mini ITX case, all fully assembled !You'll just have to copy your kickstart, ADF and HDF files on the SD Card and power on the board with the power button of the case !
525,00 €
1
525,00 €
Shipping and handling is 100 euro.
So yeah it is going to cost me 825 dollars...so if that is going to cost me 825 dollars what about accelerator? I am not saying that as an attack, I am saying that as a mean of determining how much I need to save up that is all.
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Surely it's a mistake of some sort :)
As you can see, the board is 200-ish EUR for all of us.
Rest of the equipment should not, by any means, be two times more expensive.
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No I actually got the right quote from them saying it is 625 Euro which is equivalent to my currency as 825.
"Vesa FPGA Arcade" Promotion :It includes the FPGA Arcade's board in an Antec Mini ITX Case, the ATX Power adapter, the IO BackPanel, one 8GB SD Card, the 90W external power supply of the Mini ITX case, all fully assembled !You'll just have to copy your kickstart, ADF and HDF files on the SD Card and power on the board with the power button of the case !
525,00 €
1
525,00 €
Shipping and handling is 100 euro.
So yeah it is going to cost me 825 dollars...so if that is going to cost me 825 dollars what about accelerator? I am not saying that as an attack, I am saying that as a mean of determining how much I need to save up that is all.
Why would you order that bundle? It's a horrible deal. You're paying almost 300 euro for a $80 case and a $10 SD card, and insane shipping prices.
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But I am not making this up I swear. I am talking to the person who is working with Mikej directly and this is the invoice he have send me. I am not mistaking at all. And it is going to cost me 820 dollars! Mikej can you confirm this please? Can you? No one is believing me and in the end I will be coughing up this much money and still no one believes me.
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Why would you order that bundle? It's a horrible deal. You're paying almost 300 euro for a $80 case and a $10 SD card, and insane shipping prices.
Someone at least believes me! So what advice do you have? I do want to buy the board itself and then buy the parts separately I sorta want to have a full system. What recommendation do you have then?
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So yeah it is going to cost me 825 dollars...
That's is an insanely terrible deal.
Buy the FPGAArcade from MikeJ - immediately financially better for MikeJ since you're not going through Vesalia.
Then buy the rest of the components locally, or at least from your own country, and avoid all of the other costs, taxes, and currency conversions etc.
You can then spend the money you save on the accelerator whenever it gets released.
What country are you in?
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That's is an insanely terrible deal.
Buy the FPGAArcade from MikeJ - immediately financially better for MikeJ since you're not going through Vesalia.
Then buy the rest of the components locally, or at least from your own country, and avoid all of the other costs, taxes, and currency conversions etc.
You can then spend the money you save on the accelerator whenever it gets released.
What country are you in?
But I am buying it directly from MikeJ and it is going to cost me that much. I live in Canada. I need MikeJ to confirm me.
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Dear AmigaClassicRule:
I was quoted a price of 1015 Euros for a fully loaded Replay with all bells, whistles and gizmos and case and power supply and 64GB SDXC memory card, Mark VII Flux Capacitor and a little cage with Oomp Loompas running around to power the Replay during an electrical blackout. :D (no mouse or keyboard, I have plenty) It was just a price estimate.
That was $1364.00 at the time. I would have to sell a lot of TotalChaos's to pay for that :hat:
But due to changes in the exchange rate the price has now dropped to $1305.00 + I think I should downgrade to a 32GB memory card as they were cheaper per GB the last I checked a few months ago. That could save me another $20.00 for an estimated price of $1285.00
So don't feel bad about the price you found.
What ppl are saying to you is that since you live in North America you can get standard cases and powersupplies and memory cards super super cheap. Since you are in Canada you may have a real severe problem with Canadian Taxes from importing a product. Canadian Government is very evil and they search most items coming into the country and charge you a giant tax for being evil and buying stuff (their opinion, not mine). They don't like you to buy electronics from "evil" foreign countries so they punish you for it. I have known ppl who had that problem decades ago. Furthermore I read a lot of msgs on forums about the same problem happening in the modern times and they were buying from Britain, which is practically the same country!
If you decide to buy your own parts then please be sure to post here exactly what parts you bought, how much they were and how well they work. Let us know if there are any little problems. Some of us might copy you and buy the exact same parts as you. :)
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I don't see it listed at http://www.vesalia.de
I looked under hardware/complete systems and some other categories but I just don't see it listed.
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Someone at least believes me! So what advice do you have? I do want to buy the board itself and then buy the parts separately I sorta want to have a full system. What recommendation do you have then?
Buy the board from MikeJ, then buy a case and an SD card from a local computer store.
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Buy the board from MikeJ, then buy a case and an SD card from a local computer store.
What sort of cases that are compatible with it? Hey can I use the X500 case??
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The core of MikeJ offering is the FPGA Arcade and perhaps in the feature 060-addon. To do special one off nonstandard offerings is likely to cost more.
(as I understand it)
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The pictures on MikeJ's site show it in an ITX (mini-ITX) case and I think he's said that the mounting holes are right for that. Yes I think you can use the X500 case.
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Would the 060 accellerator card fit into the X500 Plus case?
I won't buy an X500 Plus case. I need a detached keyboard.
I am only asking for AmigaClassicRule's consideration.
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Would the 060 accellerator card fit into the X500 Plus case?
I won't buy an X500 Plus case. I need a detached keyboard.
I am only asking for AmigaClassicRule's consideration.
ChaosLord do you advice I sell my A1200 right now and take the money from it and buy the FPGA Replay directly from MikeJ and then the rest of the money I buy the case (as soon as you help me in finding a good case) and power supply etc? Then what ever money left I save up more and buy the daughterboard or do you advice I wait till the daughterboard is out?
The mere fact that FPGA Replay have build in RTG and 128 MB CHIP is SO appealing and the mere fact that a 060 @ 120 Mhz IS WAY faster than an Apollo if even if it was overclocked to 120 Mhz itself is SOOO luring! If i want to buy it from MikeJ directly how do I go about doing that and would I get some sort of tracking number to ease my mind?
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I've a plan to build my own Amiga-layout keyboard at the moment, knowing me I'll never finish it mind you.
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Hi,
The resellers are buying from me and assembling the systems.
You can buy the components directly from me, but I do not have time to offer detailed support. The price you were quoted includes the atx io panel and atx power switcher I assume. If you want an assembled, tested system I suggest you go with the reseller.
Best,
/MikeJ
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FPGA Arcade with 128 MB RAM and 120 MHz CPU?
Not what I recall.
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Hi,
The resellers are buying from me and assembling the systems.
You can buy the components directly from me, but I do not have time to offer detailed support. The price you were quoted includes the atx io panel and atx power switcher I assume. If you want an assembled, tested system I suggest you go with the reseller.
Best,
/MikeJ
When will it be available in amigakit.com?
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Hi,
The resellers are buying from me and assembling the systems.
You can buy the components directly from me, but I do not have time to offer detailed support. The price you were quoted includes the atx io panel and atx power switcher I assume. If you want an assembled, tested system I suggest you go with the reseller.
Best,
/MikeJ
Hey Mike, for many of us who have been on your list for 2 years or more, will you be contacting us when the boards are ready for shipping from your list? I have been hiding this stash of cash from my wife for quite a while now, and she is getting suspicious about this damn smile I got on my face as I should not be this damn happy :banana:. So, let me know when I can make payment.
Thanks,
Mike
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"We can't be threesome in this marriage, you will have to end your relationship with this miss FP.GA!" ;)
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If you want an assembled, tested system I suggest you go with the reseller.
And of course that is the gamble.
Changing the topic, does anyone know how effective the fpga replay could be at bitcoin hashing (http://bitcoinfpga.com/)
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BitcoinFPGA uses LX150-3FGG484C (http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/spartan-6-lx/14467) (overview (http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds160.pdf) / datasheet (http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds162.pdf)) at 100 MHz which can use DCM internally to get 375 MHz (ds-page 59). It performs at 400 MH/s at an unknown frequency. And has an equalient number of logic cells of 147 443.
FPGA Arcade uses XC3S1600E-FG320-4 (http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds312.pdf) at 27 MHz which can be up clocked internally to at least 180 MHz via DCM or 311 MHz if the chip is a stepping 1 (page 140). And has equalient number of logic cells of 33 192 (page 2).
(schematic (http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/fpgaarcade_replay_b02_schematic.pdf) page8 CDCE906 HC49-27.000)
So given the larger matrix and higher clock speed the LX150-3 would be capable to (147443/33192)*(375/180) = 9.3 times the number crunching capacity. However the LX150-3 based firmware (http://fpgamining.com/documentation/firmware) (src (https://github.com/progranism/Open-Source-FPGA-Bitcoin-Miner/tree/master/projects/X6000_ztex_comm4)) is limited to 186 MHz thus max (147443/33192)*(186/180) = 4.6 times the performance.
The board in question using LX150-3 does however employ two FPGA chips but this won't change the per chip performance.
So expect no more than 43 MH/s on FPGA Arcade. Perhaps someone can translate that into USD/s ..?
@MikeJ, Question, is the FPGA-chip used a stepping 0 or stepping 1 version ..?
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I did some calculus using the defaults on Difficulty and Bitcoins per block and it would take 4.9 years to break even economicly for the FPGA Arcade ;)
Perhaps it's better to make other use of the FPGA Arcade.. :D
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So expect no more than 43 MH/s on FPGA Arcade. Perhaps someone can translate that into USD/s ..?
I'm not sure I did the calculation right, but putting the numbers into http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ with free electricity comes out at 0.22 USD a day.
It looks like it would be slaughtered by the other FPGA's or GPU's.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison#cite_note-21
I did some calculus using the defaults on Difficulty and Bitcoins per block and it would take 4.9 years to break even economicly for the FPGA Arcade ;)
Perhaps it's better to make other use of the FPGA Arcade.. :D
Actually as long as it makes more money than the cost of the electricity and you're not currently using it as an amiga etc then it is a reasonable use, although with the difficulty rise when the ASIC's hit the network it'll probably not even do that for long.
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With a FPGA Arcade cost of 283 USD and a profit of 0.22 USD/day it would take 3.5 years to break even. It would be more profitable to put the money in state bonds ;)
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With a FPGA Arcade cost of 283 USD and a profit of 0.22 USD/day it would take 3.5 years to break even. It would be more profitable to put the money in state bonds ;)
That isn't relevant though as I will be buying it anyway.
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or just get a job :/
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@MikeJ - Could you be so kind as to publish a list here of Authorized Resellers and contact info?
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Hi ;)
For informations, I have the agreement from Mike for reselling it.
Mail : laurent@amedia-computer.com
Tel : (+33) 7 71 10 72 22 (english or french as you can)
Fax : (+33) 3 87 57 07 21
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
Amedia Computer France
http://www.amedia-computer.com
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English site version plz? ;)
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@Freqmax:
English part of the site will come ;)
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
Amedia Computer France
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or just get a job :/
Better to buy money ;)
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English site version plz? ;)
I was going to say that Google Chrome translates French to English very well as Papiosaur's meta-morphos.org site translates nearly perfectly, but this site doesn't translate well at all.
"pregnant" = speakers?
Actually, the mis-translations are quite a hoot!
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Hi ;)
We prefer not use automatic google translation ;)
We're currently developping the Amiga part site, so, still some days and it will be good ;)
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
Amedia Computer France
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What ppl are saying to you is that since you live in North America you can get standard cases and powersupplies and memory cards super super cheap. Since you are in Canada you may have a real severe problem with Canadian Taxes from importing a product. Canadian Government is very evil and they search most items coming into the country and charge you a giant tax for being evil and buying stuff (their opinion, not mine). They don't like you to buy electronics from "evil" foreign countries so they punish you for it.
I am in Canada. When I bought my SAM440 I checked the applicable laws. There were no import duties on "computer parts" but there were on fully assembled computers. I bought the SAM motherboard & OS4 CD from AmigaKit and found everything else locally. I was not charged import duties.
I don't remember what year that was... maybe 2009? I don't know if the rules have changed.
I would suggest that AmigaClassicRule checks the current laws. Probably they haven't changed and he could buy just the FPGA Replay from Europe and pay no duties on it, and get all the other bits and pieces in Canada.
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I am in Canada. When I bought my SAM440 I checked the applicable laws. There were no import duties on "computer parts" but there were on fully assembled computers. I bought the SAM motherboard & OS4 CD from AmigaKit and found everything else locally. I was not charged import duties.
I don't remember what year that was... maybe 2009? I don't know if the rules have changed.
I would suggest that AmigaClassicRule checks the current laws. Probably they haven't changed and he could buy just the FPGA Replay from Europe and pay no duties on it, and get all the other bits and pieces in Canada.
I'm also in Canada and have bought a ton of things on Ebay. Most often things that are not too expensive (say less than $50) there is no extra charge. I bought a $200 item a month ago and they made me pay 15% sales tax. The worst offenders I find are the sellers ($5 shipping to the US, $45 to Canada!!! and the next listing for the same item different seller - $5 shipping to the US, $7 to Canada, guess who gets my business).
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I am still a bit unsure if I should get a Minimig or a FPGA but price wise, the first with the ARM extension will actually get close to the FPGA from Mike.
Forgetting about the price, my concern is also about the video output. How easy would it be to plug into a modern TV set? I read FPGA does DVI output (HDMI + analogue video for SCART/VGA) so I presume it has both VGA and SCART output plus if the composite+SVHS addon is included and the Minimig only have VGA and SCART if the custom cable is bought.
My concern is with refresh rates... Should they do the same 50Hz stuff that Amiga does, how does that work in reality? Should I worry about that and have to buy a display that supports it?
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@ Ptek.
Just make sure you get a monitor that supports a 50Hz vertical refresh. I use a couple of ViewSonic models with my Minimig and FPGA Arcade.
Something like this:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3835537&CatId=5469
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@ Ptek.
Just make sure you get a monitor that supports a 50Hz vertical refresh. I use a couple of ViewSonic models with my Minimig and FPGA Arcade.
Something like this:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3835537&CatId=5469
Thank you for the information, Darrin. If I buy a modern TV (like I am about to buy soon) should it support both Minimig or FPGA? Because I live on a PAL zone, so I guess I should have no problems. A SCART output is common to both.
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Yup, don't worry. Our PAL TVs do 50Hz as basic frequency :)
Just to DVI to HDMI and you're all set.
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MikeJ has been quiet for some time, I guess he's busy testing boards?
Any boards ready to go yet Mike?
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MikeJ has been quiet for some time, I guess he's busy testing boards?
Any boards ready to go yet Mike?
Um, no - I've been in a field in Derby at a music festival.
Once I have straightened myself out again I'll be back to board testing.
/MikeJ
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No mikej no. It's more than we need to know ;)
The correct answer is; "Um, yes - I'm working on the boards. /MikeJ " ;)
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The designer is recharging the mental batteries in order to be a more productive citizen at other times ;)
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Um, no - I've been in a field in Derby at a music festival.
Once I have straightened myself out again I'll be back to board testing.
/MikeJ
Glad to know you have real life too, just electronics and computers can get a bit dull.
I hope you enjoyed yourself and good luck with your project.
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Um, no - I've been in a field in Derby at a music festival.
Once I have straightened myself out again I'll be back to board testing.
/MikeJ
Yeah, let the dude get over his hangover :)
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Hey Mike, for many of us who have been on your list for 2 years or more, will you be contacting us when the boards are ready for shipping from your list? I have been hiding this stash of cash from my wife for quite a while now, and she is getting suspicious about this damn smile I got on my face as I should not be this damn happy :banana:. So, let me know when I can make payment.
Thanks,
Mike
For sure - I have a list of everybody who has contacted me and asked to be notified.
I will be working through this as I test the systems.
Cheers,
Mike
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@MikeJ, Question, is the FPGA-chip used a stepping 0 or stepping 1 version ..?
They are supposed to be stepping 1s, I should read out the chip ID to confirm actually.
/Mike
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Yeah, let the dude get over his hangover :)
It will take a while to recover - I'm still dealing with the hangover from last Thursday never mind the weekend ;)
/MikeJ
p.s. I need to get this done and shipping before Glastonbury (end of June) as that takes even longer to recover from ...
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p.s. I need to get this done and shipping before Glastonbury (end of June) as that takes even longer to recover from ...
I bet it takes a bit longer each year ;)
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Bewerage meditation #80056454 :D
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Just wanted to say THANKS and nicely done for making the FPGA Replay board MikeJ :-D
Truly a thing of beauty - hopefully I can buy one later in the year :-)
(also looking forward to seeing what the '060 daughterboard can handle, although I'd like to do more than just Amiga stuff with this setup once everyone looks at more cores!)
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What is the cycle time on the wires to the DRAM chip? Took a look at the clock generator. And it's only 27 MHz, which should mean that EMI issues are few. Compared to any standard DVI-VGA-LVDS TFT controller board which seems to be full of series and parallell impedance corrections using passive components (DVI seems transistor boosted however).
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What is the cycle time on the wires to the DRAM chip? Took a look at the clock generator. And it's only 27 MHz, which should mean that EMI issues are few. Compared to any standard DVI-VGA-LVDS TFT controller board which seems to be full of series and parallell impedance corrections using passive components (DVI seems transistor boosted however).
266Mbit so 133MHz max freq.
Board is fully EMI (CE / FCC) certified.
/MikeJ
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I meant the physical kind of EMI such that the signals reach their destination in "good shape" at all. The EMC regulation is more like a letter of indulgence payed to the emperor.
The reason for asking is that I had a look at the more powerful A/D converters available. The catch is that they demand a solid signal integrity on the PCB and anything more than dual layer co$t..
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Is it still a 64 MByte DDRx16 memory ? (so the drawing says)
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I meant the physical kind of EMI such that the signals reach their destination in "good shape" at all. The EMC regulation is more like a letter of indulgence payed to the emperor.
The reason for asking is that I had a look at the more powerful A/D converters available. The catch is that they demand a solid signal integrity on the PCB and anything more than dual layer co$t..
Replay is a six layer board with solid ground and power planes in this area. The trick to getting low EMI is minimizing any impedance mismatch - so controlled trace impedance, termination and FPGA drive control.
/MikeJ
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How few layers would you think could make a functional FPGA Arcade? I wonder how far one could push signals (MHz-wise) on a 2-layer board. Otoh, it's the dV/dt that is the catch not the cycle time per se.
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No news? Still hung over? ;)
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Hey Mike? Why not just start selling the FPGA Replay board in Amigakit.com now...until you get the daughterboard ready for release? This way...EVEN IF the daughterboard never...ever...ever...ever happens and never get released...at least this is an improvement and better version of MiniMag...and we could enjoy using a 030 processor in this FPGA Replay with better CHIP RAM, RTG support, DVI support and so on. At least if you do that...then we will buy the FPGA Replay and you can discontinue the MiniMag as this is better than the MiniMag...we can even consider it MiniMag II for example. And when you do have the daughterboard ready for release....people will upgrade their toy with this superb 060 processor. There are two reasons why this I may consider a good idea....
1) You start generating revenue which would help in further development and for the daughterboard
2) You get a statistical idea of how many people ARE REALLY interested in this item and you may even consider if it is worth manufacturing the daughterboard if there are only a handful sale.
Another good reason why this is a good idea..people who are enthusiastic and willing to buy it now...we will spend right away...but the longer it takes for release the less that person becomes enthusiastic and the more there are reasons to spend this money else where. Bills, student loans, etc.
I mean if I was you I would release it today than tomorrow...and see what happens. That is my thinking on this matter.
What do you guys think?
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Asfair, the reason for the delay is that the boards need to be checked and shipped. The motivation is not profit per se. I think the mailed requests shows quite clearly how large the interest is.
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@AmigaClassicRule
MiniMig...
MiniMag is a small flashlight.
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I knew it! the aliens has hidden an Amiga 500 inside my MiniMag that toggles the parallel port at 565 terahertz to generate photons ;)
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then we will buy the FPGA Replay and you can discontinue the MiniMag as this is better than the MiniMag...
That sentence is full of all kinds of wrong.
I'm sure the MiniMig will continue to be sold after the FPGA Replay is released. It's much cheaper and smaller.
I don't believe that the hold up is the daughterboard anyway.
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@mikej ... or any HW guru
Is it possible that FPGA Arcade will work together with KryoFlux for reading/writing or maybe booting real Amiga disks?
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That sentence is full of all kinds of wrong.
I'm sure the MiniMig will continue to be sold after the FPGA Replay is released. It's much cheaper and smaller.
I don't believe that the hold up is the daughterboard anyway.
That's right.
@AmigaClassicRule: please read also other posts to have a clear picture what's going on here.
Just to be short: Mike is checking the boards. Then he will start contacting the people that already e-mailed him and he will start shipping the boards. The daughterboard has nothing to do with it, FPGA Replay will be selling also without it. Mike also spoke with some sellers, that will sell FPGA Arcade also.
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KryoFlux can be connected as an USB device but they don't specify what USB API it's using so software compability can't be determined. Also there's no documentation on what kind of USB devices FPGA Arcade has support for beyond a USB mouse.
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mikej, please don't give us the silent treatment! ;)
How's things going?
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mikej, please don't give us the silent treatment! ;)
How's things going?
I'll post some photos later.
I have a whole load of hardware here...
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Can't wait :D
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@mikej ... or any HW guru
Is it possible that FPGA Arcade will work together with KryoFlux for reading/writing or maybe booting real Amiga disks?
I am getting one of the FPGA boards from Mike to develop with. I am releasing SuperCard Pro (SCP), which is a flux level disk copier, emulator, and other 'things'. It is a similar form factor to the KryoFlux. It uses nearly double the resolution of the KryoFlux and has 512KB of static RAM on board for track buffering. It also has a micro-SD card slot so you can create and store raw or converted disk images. For my USB interface, I am using the FTDI FT240X USB FIFO chip which has drivers for Windows, Mac, Linux, and Android. I have already released preliminary information on the command structure for SCP. Besides having a USB port, it also has a serial port (up to 1Mbps) that uses the exact same command set. So, no USB interface is required. You can connect a 3.5" PC floppy drive to the SCP (power comes from the floppy drive connector, via Y-cable) and use it as a stand alone device controlled by a PIC, AVR, ARM, etc. micro - or an FPGA device like Mike's. There are commands to read the data at a flux level and convert it to Amiga MFM format, after which the data can be transferred via USB or serial.
As some of you might know, I released hardware and software disk copiers for the Amiga - in fact, that is how I got into the Amiga market before doing emulations. So, I have a LOT of experience with Paula, having actually designed a replacement ASIC for her back in the day so we could change the data rate and do flux copying without needing two drives.
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"...... It uses nearly double the resolution of the KryoFlux and has 512KB of static RAM on board for track buffering. It also has a micro-SD card slot so you can create and store raw or converted disk images."
Fantastic news Jim! The more hardware/software development the Replay can get the better.
Mike
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An old-school emulation hardware guru making new hardware for a new-school hardware emulator of retro computers is enough to make your head explode just thinking of the possibilities :insane:
Thank-you Jim for making things like this up-and-comer and boards like the Emplant Deluxe (just let my last one go a few weeks ago - incredible bit of kit!) :-D
(and thank-you mikej for the promise of new-school shiny!)
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I am getting one of the FPGA boards from Mike to develop with. I am releasing SuperCard Pro (SCP), which is a flux level disk copier, emulator, and other 'things'. It is a similar form factor to the KryoFlux. It uses nearly double the resolution of the KryoFlux and has 512KB of static RAM on board for track buffering. It also has a micro-SD card slot so you can create and store raw or converted disk images. For my USB interface, I am using the FTDI FT240X USB FIFO chip which has drivers for Windows, Mac, Linux, and Android. I have already released preliminary information on the command structure for SCP. Besides having a USB port, it also has a serial port (up to 1Mbps) that uses the exact same command set. So, no USB interface is required. You can connect a 3.5" PC floppy drive to the SCP (power comes from the floppy drive connector, via Y-cable) and use it as a stand alone device controlled by a PIC, AVR, ARM, etc. micro - or an FPGA device like Mike's. There are commands to read the data at a flux level and convert it to Amiga MFM format, after which the data can be transferred via USB or serial.
This sounds cool :) But a little unclear. Can you please type a bit slower for us slower folks :D and explain a bit more ?
We will be able to connect this SCP to a Replay board, right ? And a PC floppy to it, right ? And read/write real floppies ?
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This sounds cool :) But a little unclear. Can you please type a bit slower for us slower folks :D and explain a bit more ?
We will be able to connect this SCP to a Replay board, right ? And a PC floppy to it, right ? And read/write real floppies ?
Jim, I'll send you a patch daughterboard as well for you to play with ...
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Jim, I'll send you a patch daughterboard as well for you to play with ...
Oh thank you, but I'm not Jim :D
And I wouldn't know what to do with it :)
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Oh thank you, but I'm not Jim :D
And I wouldn't know what to do with it :)
:eek: You had the potential of getting DAUGHTERBOARDS maaan.....you should have went hush hush there :rolleyes: Well...my money is waiting for the FPGA Replay...regardless of daughterboard release date available or not....Mmmmmmm 128 MB of CHIP RAM...yumm...yummm...integrated DVI AND RTG. Even the latest version of WinUAE does not give you 128 MB of CHIP RAM...:D
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Wait until we get 4 GB chip ram.. ;)
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Wait until we get 4 GB chip ram.. ;)
Let me enjoy the 128 MB first then we can talk about the 4 GB :D:D You know what that means though? Software in the aminet will have another added additional flavor called FPG Replay heheheh. That means I get the pleasure of download programs in aminet for FPGA Replay try it out on my A1200 and crashes with insufficient memory error hehehe .....Yet will only work in FPGA Replay heheh!! I can hardly wait for the awesome game ports...I am sure NOW...NOW we can have MMORPG games ported into the Amiga system...finally. Also I get to enjoy Quake 2 without removing the eye candy graphics, lighting, shadows and ...AND I get to have multiplayer support into it. I may even install AmiKit for it and looks as pretty as the WinUAE version...Mmmmmmmm...or even AmigaSYS 4 and not AmigaSYS 4 AGA...mmmmmmmmmmmm
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This sounds cool :) But a little unclear. Can you please type a bit slower for us slower folks :D and explain a bit more ?
We will be able to connect this SCP to a Replay board, right ? And a PC floppy to it, right ? And read/write real floppies ?
Technically, any device that has a CPU of some kind can control this device. Yes, you can use any real 5.25" or 3.5" floppy drives with this device to read/write various disk formats.
Thanks Mike!
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Allrighty then :)
Thank you for for your contribution Jim !
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Is it ony me who checks this thread a couple of times everyday for news? I'm going mental here! :)
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It's more like a couple of times a minute to be honest :)
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I'm waiting the core update like crazy. Or an AtariST core. Or something to use the board as a computer at all :D
And I'm also checking amiga.org like 5-6 times a day, waiting for the release to happen.
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Haha so there's a few more like me ... :D
So with the current core. It's not useable as an Amiga?
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Fire up the ISE makefiles and bring the thick AGA specification ;)
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So with the current core. It's not useable as an Amiga?
No, it works as an Amiga, but it is a very old core and has bugs in it.
The new core addresses a lot of these bugs and adds new features such as RTG graphics.
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Yep, I check in everyday hoping for release news :)
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Sorry guys, appreciate the patience. I have had some hassle with the day job, but still moving forward....
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Sorry guys, appreciate the patience. I have had some hassle with the day job, but still moving forward....
That's the problem with jobs, they always get in the way of the important stuff. :)
I'm home in 4 days and then off for a week (moving house, so not really relaxing). Any chance of the core update then?
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Sorry guys, appreciate the patience. I have had some hassle with the day job, but still moving forward....
Don't worry, it's not a complaint :)
I spent all day almost gnawing my hands off in frustration that I couldn't get home and hack on one of my "spare time" projects so I understand.
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I'm home in 4 days and then off for a week (moving house, so not really relaxing). Any chance of the core update then?
C'mon, MikeJ! Give this young recruit something to play with! He always tells you when he's going home. You'll make him very happy! :)
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C'mon, MikeJ! Give this young recruit something to play with! He always tells you when he's going home. You'll make him very happy! :)
LOL. I think he never sends it to me because my wife is paying him not to.
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@Darrin, Conspiracy! *drums* ;)
(from the Wifeminati)
Does the USB handler in the FPGA Arcade handle USB Ethernet adapters good enough to present an API that assembler code on the 68k side can make use of to establish TCP/IP connections?
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@Darrin, Conspiracy! *drums* ;)
(from the Wifeminati)
Does the USB handler in the FPGA Arcade handle USB Ethernet adapters good enough to present an API that assembler code on the 68k side can make use of to establish TCP/IP connections?
Not really no, the VNC2 is directly connected to a low level handler in the FPGA which converts it into keyboard/mouse protocol. It could be extended of course. Remember there is a real ethernet / usb chip on the daughterboard.
In other news testing is ongoing. The batch look to be assembled well, few minor things to correct but nothing major. However the boot loader just does not run on the ARM at all, it is very odd. My first though was the chips were fake, but the internal ID code matches the device marking. Debug is ongoing.
/MikeJ
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In other news testing is ongoing. The batch look to be assembled well, few minor things to correct but nothing major. However the boot loader just does not run on the ARM at all, it is very odd. My first though was the chips were fake, but the internal ID code matches the device marking. Debug is ongoing.
/MikeJ
That doesn't sound good. Were there any changes to these board designs or components from the last working set?
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That doesn't sound good. Were there any changes to these board designs or components from the last working set?
No, and same component supplier. Different batch of ARM chips though.
/Mike
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No, and same component supplier. Different batch of ARM chips though.
/Mike
Hope it isn't a faulty batch, or it will be more delays.
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Hope it isn't a faulty batch, or it will be more delays.
I may have been unlucky in the first couple I tested. On one the ARM seems to have died, and the other has a bad power controller. These can both be easily replaced.
Board 3 without the bootloader runs perfectly and passes all tests. I will leave it on soak test and fiddle with the loader. I have identified a few issues with it...
/MikeJ
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Yes yes!!
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I may have been unlucky in the first couple I tested. On one the ARM seems to have died, and the other has a bad power controller. These can both be easily replaced.
Board 3 without the bootloader runs perfectly and passes all tests. I will leave it on soak test and fiddle with the loader. I have identified a few issues with it...
/MikeJ
[BusinessManagerMode]
So you must spend 1 hour of labor testing every single board that works perfectly?
And you must spend 6 hours of labor testing every single board that does not work perfectly?
And I assume you have a 10% failure rate?
Or do u have one of those C64 30% failure rates?
Learning these types of things from my own experience is very stressful to me. But learning these types of things from your experience is fun, relaxing and enjoyable. :)
When I used to buy floppy disks, I always had a 2% failure rate or higher. Crappy disks would be a 5% failure rate. Once I had a box of disks with something like a 50% failure rate.
With DVDs I always had around a 20% failure rate, which was really annoying. But once they burned, they lasted forever and never failed.
My hard drive failure rate is uhmmm... I never ever ever had a hard drive fail on me, no matter how old it was or how much I grinded the head. Except one drive: A Western Digital Green drive 1.5TB which was used in an external BlacX thingy. So it spent most of its life OFF. It was on for a few hundred hours of very mild use then just gave the CLICK OF DEATH and died. :(
When I sold C64's we always had a very high failure rate of 20% to 30%. I think that was in 1983. I sold hundreds of them and testing all those returns was really annoying to me. Yikerz.
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My hard drive failure rate is uhmmm... I never ever ever had a hard drive fail on me, no matter how old it was or how much I grinded the head. Except one drive: A Western Digital Green drive 1.5TB which was used in an external BlacX thingy. So it spent most of its life OFF. It was on for a few hundred hours of very mild use then just gave the CLICK OF DEATH and died. :(
funny, only drive i've ever lost is a WD green 500gb, infact I got it working again -accidentally- by smearing some thermal compound on the logic board - maybe it fixed a dodgy via or cold solder joint.
I wouldn't recommend people do this however:D but if there's stuff you need off it, then a replacement logic board might be worth a try.
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Good news, the bootloader has been corrected to work reliably now - or at least seems to. The problem was the flash wait state was not set up as the revC errata (1) and these newer chips are a little slower than the original. The main code uses this waitstate so it ran ok.
Some boards have a dead 1.2 supply and this does look like a duff part. At least this is easier to swap.
/MikeJ
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* So boards without the new bootloader works out of the box but without the features of said option?
* This new batch of ARM cpus only has slightly slower flashmemory write cycle? not slower flashmemory read accesstime?
* Does the dead 1.2 V supply mean that you have to check and replace this on all boards?
* How is the DDR memory self calibration going?
Whats VNC2?, If I recall it correctly, the ARM cpu is the USB-host and sends this to the FPGA via i/o. I like the everything-on-one-board-solution ;) Perhaps an option would be to handle other USB devices by just forwarding the raw data and let the Amiga side deal with the configuration of endpoints etc.
What I would like is to be able to just plug the board via USB ethernet to the local network and run with it, without messing with any pc-2-sd-2-arcade-repeat. Firmware updates would be just a matter of pressing a key. ;)
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Sounds like typical production woes... keep at it Mike!
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Sounds like typical production woes... keep at it Mike!
Thanks Jim. Nothing unexpected - especially with Chinese suppliers. I deal with this sort of thing in my day job, but it's even less fun when it's your own toy.
"* So boards without the new bootloader works out of the box but without the features of said option?"
The revised bootloader code works on both old and new boards. It hasn't been shipped yet as it is part of the new firmware. The change is to correctly set up the internal memory controller as a result of an errata.
"* This new batch of ARM cpus only has slightly slower flashmemory write cycle? not slower flashmemory read accesstime?"
it's still in spec - just the old chips worked with the faster setting. It's only really read that's interesting from the flash in our case ;)
"* Does the dead 1.2 V supply mean that you have to check and replace this on all boards?"
All power rails are checked on each board as part of the test suite. If it's out of spec the regulator is replaced.
"* How is the DDR memory self calibration going?"
Done, works like a charm.
"Whats VNC2?, If I recall it correctly, the ARM cpu is the USB-host and sends this to the FPGA via i/o. I like the everything-on-one-board-solution Perhaps an option would be to handle other USB devices by just forwarding the raw data and let the Amiga side deal with the configuration of endpoints etc."
This ARM cannot be used as a USB host. The VNC2 is an optional module which fits on the board instead of the PS2 connector and provides two USB host ports, and all the software muscle to drive them. It speaks mouse/keyboard SPI back to the FPGA which feeds it into the Amiga core.
"What I would like is to be able to just plug the board via USB ethernet to the local network and run with it, without messing with any pc-2-sd-2-arcade-repeat. Firmware updates would be just a matter of pressing a key. "
You can with the ethernet adapter on the daughterboard.
Firmware updates for the FPGA are as simple as copying the file on the SD card.
For the ARM code you push the menu button while powering on the board, and run an update program on your PC. The two will talk, the ARM flash is reprogrammed and you are good to go.
You can also update the bootloader this way too.
If you mess it up, there is a link on the board to reload a default boot loader.
/MikeJ
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Daughterboard is nice for extras lik a CPU but for Ethernet I would prefer it to be on the main board ie KISS.
Seems I misstok the P13 micro USB conncector for the PS/2 connector in USB mode. But if the FPGA has the electrical control of the PS/2 port + adapter to USB. Extended device support is only .bit file away ;)
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Daughterboard is nice for extras lik a CPU but for Ethernet I would prefer it to be on the main board ie KISS.
Seems I misstok the P13 micro USB conncector for the PS/2 connector in USB mode. But if the FPGA has the electrical control of the PS/2 port + adapter to USB. Extended device support is only .bit file away ;)
You'll almost certainly have to write the code for this too (assuming that it can actually be flashed in place)
http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/ICs/VNC2.htm
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You'll almost certainly have to write the code for this too (assuming that it can actually be flashed in place)
http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/ICs/VNC2.htm
I have written all the code for the mouse/keyboard bridge already.
The VNC2 can be updated from a USB stick, and I need to add this before release.
Otherwise, you need to use the programmer - there is a connector on the module.
http://apple.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/ftdichip?op=catalogue-products-null&prodCategoryID=118&title=VNC2-Debug-module
/MikeJ
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I have written all the code for the mouse/keyboard bridge already.
The VNC2 can be updated from a USB stick, and I need to add this before release.
Otherwise, you need to use the programmer - there is a connector on the module.
http://apple.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/ftdichip?op=catalogue-products-null&prodCategoryID=118&title=VNC2-Debug-module
/MikeJ
I meant to enable the VNC2 to allow USB Ethernet. If the only way to update it without a programmer is to have it update itself and it needs to work for that, then there is no way I'll be messing with mine.
But it does sound at least doable. It's likely to be pig slow though.
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AT91SAM7S256-AU-001 (http://www.atmel.com/Images/6175s.pdf)
CPU: ARMv4T (ARM7TDMI)
Freq: 18.432 MHz (max 55 MHz)
RAM: 64 kB
ROM: 256 kB
VNC2 (http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/DataSheets/ICs/DS_Vinculum-II.pdf)
CPU: 16-bit Harvard
Freq: 12 MHz
RAM: 16 kB
ROM: 256 kB
I think I know which MCU chip that would be tasked to handle the USB hodepodge.
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The VNC2 runs the entire USB stack, the ARM is running the menu system and file IO to the SD card.
/MikeJ
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I know ;) it was a mere suggestion on which one that has the most CPU power.
Btw, how much code size and MIPS does it require to use a USB device like a Ethernet dongle? (estimate), perhaps this estimate (http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-52558.html) at 300 kB of RAM is realistic? in addition to the on board 4 MB flash.
Anyway at present an external USB/Disc/Ethernet solution is the required path.
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Are these "features" incorporated into the core?
abime.net: Undocumented Amiga hardware stuff (http://eab.abime.net/coders-asm-hardware/19676-undocumented-amiga-hardware-stuff.html)
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I know ;) it was a mere suggestion on which one that has the most CPU power.
Btw, how much code size and MIPS does it require to use a USB device like a Ethernet dongle? (estimate), perhaps this estimate (http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-52558.html) at 300 kB of RAM is realistic? in addition to the on board 4 MB flash.
The VNC2 has to at least be involved, because it's the only chip that has a USB host port on the board. It then uses SPI to get the data elsewhere. I imagine putting in something that allowed more than keyboards and mice to work (ideally making it subway compatible) is doable but it'll be a lot of work.
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Well because the FPGA i/o goes straight to the PS/2 data+clock is available, one could use them as D+/D- and with the right core you can bang USB right there.
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Well because the FPGA i/o goes straight to the PS/2 data+clock is available, one could use them as D+/D- and with the right core you can bang USB right there.
yes, but the electrical levels are wrong - ideally you still need an external phy. The VNC2 is cheap and means reduced software effort.
For high performance the normal USB and Ethernet PHY/MACs hanging off the processor databus are the way forward. It is already running with the USB stack.
Board testing continues, I've replaced a few of the 1.2V regulators without any trouble and the boards work fine.
/MikeJ
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Signal levels can be set with FPGA configuration, and if not one can fix that externally. Less electronics than another MCU.
Two 3,3V level signals that forms a differential signal together shouldn't be that hard to accomplish. Ofcourse it won't be 100% to specification but that hasn't hindered Amiga fans before ;)
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Signal levels can be set with FPGA configuration, and if not one can fix that externally. Less electronics than another MCU.
Two 3,3V level signals that forms a differential signal together shouldn't be that hard to accomplish. Ofcourse it won't be 100% to specification but that hasn't hindered Amiga fans before ;)
You need an external pull-up still, and it would not be standards compliant. The VHDL to run the USB would take about 5% of the FPGA, but you would still need an on-board micro to run the USB stack for ps/2 mouse and keyboard.
/MikeJ
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You need an external pull-up still, and it would not be standards compliant. The VHDL to run the USB would take about 5% of the FPGA, but you would still need an on-board micro to run the USB stack for ps/2 mouse and keyboard.
Are hubs and usb game pads also supported?
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The previous answer to game pads was "The current core is very close to the original hardware, so only 9PIN digital.
There are analog inputs on the ARM which can be used in future.
The USB adapter adds keyboard and mouse, and can be extended to all sorts of stuff in future."
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The previous answer to game pads was "The current core is very close to the original hardware, so only 9PIN digital.
There are analog inputs on the ARM which can be used in future.
The USB adapter adds keyboard and mouse, and can be extended to all sorts of stuff in future."
Correct - although hubs are supported in the current code.
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Correct - although hubs are supported in the current code.
Would usb hid gamepads be possible to add? While 9 pin joystick ports are fine for amiga use, it's a bit limiting for other platforms. I actually can't stand old joysticks now though. ps3 controller ftw.
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PS3 controller outputs continous signal? ordinary Commodore joystick only generate Back - Forward etc.. plain binary.
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PS3 controller outputs continous signal? ordinary Commodore joystick only generate Back - Forward etc.. plain binary.
ps3 pads have a d-pad as well as analogue sticks.
The last I heard the FPGA replay board wasn't just for emulating commodore machines either.
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Would usb hid gamepads be possible to add? While 9 pin joystick ports are fine for amiga use, it's a bit limiting for other platforms. I actually can't stand old joysticks now though. ps3 controller ftw.
I expect it will be easier to add support for the USB gamepad specification in the funky programmable 16-bit-USB-stack-on-a-chip than USB networking - it's probably very similar to the keyboard / mouse specification - a collection of button presses and analogue (signed 8-bit?) signals for the joysticks.
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I expect it will be easier to add support for the USB gamepad specification in the funky programmable 16-bit-USB-stack-on-a-chip than USB networking - it's probably very similar to the keyboard / mouse specification - a collection of button presses and analogue (signed 8-bit?) signals for the joysticks.
yes, very easy at the USB level - just need a new handler for that device and send back the raw data to the fpga with a different header type.
The problem is how to handle it at the FPGA end. Currently, the mouse and keyboard are converted into amiga looking mouse and keyboard, so no driver required. The same could be done for button keyboards etc.
/MikeJ
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yes, very easy at the USB level - just need a new handler for that device and send back the raw data to the fpga with a different header type.
The problem is how to handle it at the FPGA end. Currently, the mouse and keyboard are converted into amiga looking mouse and keyboard, so no driver required. The same could be done for button keyboards etc.
/MikeJ
Well ideally there would be a way of mapping everything, so the analogue sticks could be used as a mouse or digital/analogue joystick. keys/dpad could be used as mouse/joysticks (and obviously keys). Mapping a button to up to make jumping easier etc. But I know that would be a lot of work & I'd rather have the bare minimum than wait ages.
I'm not sure how standardised the buttons are on pads, I think all the buttons on ps3 pads are actually analogue. So even though they are HID, you might need to hard code stuff.
Even if the dpad was the joystick and every other button is mapped to fire then it would be pretty awesome.
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Well ideally there would be a way of mapping everything, so the analogue sticks could be used as a mouse or digital/analogue joystick. keys/dpad could be used as mouse/joysticks (and obviously keys). Mapping a button to up to make jumping easier etc. But I know that would be a lot of work & I'd rather have the bare minimum than wait ages.
I'm not sure how standardised the buttons are on pads, I think all the buttons on ps3 pads are actually analogue. So even though they are HID, you might need to hard code stuff.
Even if the dpad was the joystick and every other button is mapped to fire then it would be pretty awesome.
The PS3 controller protocol is pretty well understood, so it could certainly be done without too much trouble. Hopefully somebody will pick it up when the code is pushed out.
/MikeJ
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Hi,
Two silly questions/OT..
Is it possible or will it be possible to run Atari ST(E)/falcon core on FPGAA?
What platforms to implement will be available when the FPGAA will be finally released and ready to buy?
//BTW - we're just after great Pixel Heaven party in Poland. You can take a look at some hardware porn from PH.13 here (https://plus.google.com/photos/107758741844935635797/albums/5890062402000990161). :)
Thanks!
K
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Hi,
Two silly questions/OT..
Is it possible or will it be possible to run Atari ST(E)/falcon core on FPGAA?
What platforms to implement will be available when the FPGAA will be finally released and ready to buy?
//BTW - we're just after great Pixel Heaven party in Poland. You can take a look at some hardware porn from PH.13 here (https://plus.google.com/photos/107758741844935635797/albums/5890062402000990161). :)
Thanks!
K
Yes, the Atari core is the reason I build this board in the first place.
Final parts for production test rig arrived today (should have done this before but ....)
Busy replacing the defective power regulators.
We are working on the new menu system now and tidying up code.
/MikeJ
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//BTW - we're just after great Pixel Heaven party in Poland. You can take a look at some hardware porn from PH.13 here (https://plus.google.com/photos/107758741844935635797/albums/5890062402000990161). :)
Hey, I saw a Franko 2 poster ! What's with that :) ?
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Hey, I saw a Franko 2 poster ! What's with that :) ?
There will be a crowd-funding campaign for IOS/Android game - Franko 2. That's all I can say about this. There is also a teaser - http://youtu.be/RLtnc2PAGEs
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Is there any chance of Yakubs (sp?) RTG code fitting in the main FPGA even without the daughterboard? Just wondering if we'll have RTG support out of the box as it were.
Andy
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Is there any chance of Yakubs (sp?) RTG code fitting in the main FPGA even without the daughterboard? Just wondering if we'll have RTG support out of the box as it were.
Andy
Yes, the main board supports RTG. The soft CPU has some compatibility issues so until these are resolved the 68060 on the daughterboard is required.
Hopefully this will be improved.
/MikeJ
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Before production boards were started, I made a change to my SuperCard Pro project to make the floppy bus fully bi-directional. This means that besides being able to use a real floppy drive, it can also emulate a floppy drive. So, we can use protected disk images via the built-in microSD card slot. Besides USB (using a parallel FTDI USB FIFO chip), there are also two 1Mbps serial buses that can be used to transfer data. So, theoretically it should be possible to boot protected disk images from an SD card and not require a real floppy. I am just starting the drive emulation support, but since its mostly hardware driven (capture/compare w/DMA) I don't think there is too much to do to make it all work... famous last words! LOL!
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being able to use a real floppy drive
This is a great addition to FPGA Arcade :) Makes it more Amigaish !
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True, but for me, I wanted something I could put inside of my A1200 to replace the floppy drive, and still be able to play Shadow of the Beast from "floppy". :)
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This is a great addition to FPGA Arcade :) Makes it more Amigaish !
Better start coding of the thermal fatigue emulation module.. :P
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Yes, the main board supports RTG. The soft CPU has some compatibility issues so until these are resolved the 68060 on the daughterboard is required.
Hopefully this will be improved.
/MikeJ
That's good to know, any more news on the board bringup itself or it just the usual slog through issues at the moment?
Andy
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That's good to know, any more news on the board bringup itself or it just the usual slog through issues at the moment?
Andy
Looking good, test hardware complete and running. Replaced regs on 10 boards and they are under soak test at the moment.
/MikeJ
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What's a soak test?
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What's a soak test?
I believe it has something to do with wanking over them and not wiping it off until it dries. Mike will have to confirm this.
I'd put my name down for board #11 if this is the case.
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What's a soak test?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soak_testing
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Guess the "soak" part confused me. I thought on dipping them in some chemical solution ;)
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Guess the "soak" part confused me. I thought on dipping them in some chemical solution ;)
yeah me to lol
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"Howdy-dodi the Swedish cook thinks the little circuit boards needs a nice warm bath to get rid of all those dirty bugs" ;)
Anyway, here's a quick reference to the schematic - Replay 1.02 RevB:
fpgaarcade_replay_b02_schematic.pdf (http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/fpgaarcade_replay_b02_schematic.pdf) and placement.pdf (http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/fpgaarcade_replay_b02_assem_top.pdf) + photo.jpg (http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/replay_overview.jpg)
Page 1: U4 - LM2853 (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm2853.pdf)MH-3.3 (3.3V 3A) ; U12 - MCP1703 (http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/22049e.pdf) (3.3V 0.250A analog) ; U9 - LM2852YMXA-2.5 (2.5V 2A) ; U2 - LP2995MR (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lp2995.pdf) (2.5V reference) ; U2 - LP2995MR (2.5V Vtt) ; U3 - APX809 (http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/APX809_APX810.pdf) (reset) ; U14 - LM2852 (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm2852.pdf)YMXA-1.2 (1.2V 2A)
Page 2: U6 - AT91SAM7S256 (http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc6175.pdf) (microcontroller (http://www.atmel.com/devices/sam7s256.aspx)) ; P13 - Micro USB type B (ARM CPU) ; P17 - SD/MMC ; U5 - XC3S1200E (http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/data_sheets/ds312.pdf) (bank 2/ config+jtag) ; P15 - JTAG
Page 3: U5 - XC3S1200E (bank0+1/ peripherals and memory)
Page 4: U5 - XC3S1200E (bank2+3/ video and I/O)
Page 5: U5 - XC3S1200E (Vcc+GND) ; U8 - 46V32M16 (http://download.micron.com/pdf/datasheets/dram/ddr/256MBDDRx4x8x16.pdf)-6T F (DDRx16 TSOP66 64 MByte)
Page 6: U10 - CH7301C (http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards/ml505/datasheets/7301ds.pdf)-TF-QFP64 (DVI & DAC) ; U15 - MCP1703T (http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/22049f.pdf) (video TVdd) ; P22 - DVI-I connector
Page 7: U11 - THS7353 (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ths7353.pdf) (video filter) ; P3 - joystick ; P7 - aux ; P16 - joystick/video ;
Page 8: U13 - WM8729 (http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/documents/uploads/data_sheets/en/WM8729.pdf) (audio D/A) ; U16 - AD723 (http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/data_sheets/AD723.pdf) (TV encoder) ; P20 - S-Video ; X1 - HC49-27.000 MHz (http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/3/ab-39594.pdf) (oscillator) ; U7 - CDCE906 (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cdce906.pdf) (clock generator) ; P21 - PS/2 keyboard+mouse ; P1 - FPGA or ARM TxD (jumper selection) ; U1 - MAX232 (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/max232.pdf) (RS-232) ; P4 - DE9M (RS-232) ; P8 - BSE_080-01-L-D-A (http://www.samtec.com/documents/webfiles/pdf/BTE.PDF) (expansion board) ; P18 - 2xDE9M (joystick)
FPGA: Overall schematic says XC3S1200E-FG320-4, but page 3 says fitted part is XC3S1600E-FG320-4
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Guess the "soak" part confused me. I thought on dipping them in some chemical solution ;)
Yeah, it's not a particularly descriptive name. I have never heard the origin of the term, but I expect there was some logical reason.
Burn in testing doesn't quite mean what it sounds like either.
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I suppose I would have used the term "load" or "stress" testing, but it sounds like soak testing might be slightly different from those two processes...
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The term "soak test" comes from the test procedure that focuses on long term thermal testing - where parts can be "soaked" at varying temperatures during the test.
NASA uses this frequently with their boards that go outside of our atmosphere (heat soaking/cold soaking). I used cold soaking for my project with James Cameron's Mariana trench dive. The electronics I designed for that had to withstand sub-zero temperatures at over 16,500 psi. They actually were tested (in a chamber) to over 18,000 psi, sub-zero to +150F - up and down in pressure and temperature to see if they would fail. No failures in 3 sets of boards... surprised me for sure.
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"Howdy-dodi the Swedish cook thinks the little circuit boards needs a nice warm bath to get rid of all those dirty bugs" ;)
Anyway, here's a quick reference to the schematic - Replay 1.02 RevB:
Just in case any of these datasheets/companies go offline, I've archived your message and *all* of the linked datasheets at:
http://www.evillabs.net/FPGAArcade_B02/ (http://www.evillabs.net/FPGAArcade_B02/)
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I created the post because the schematic is made up of pictures such that a search is not possible. And scrolling 9 huge images takes time. Re-searching for those datasheets also tend to take its time. I think some of the chips are already EOL so perhaps those datasheets will only be of use to existing FPGA Arcades. Even the critical XC3S1600 FPGA has a "not for new designs" note which just emphasize the importance of chip implementation agnostic HDL-code. Unfortunately this may mean that future version may have to use hard to attach chip packages.. Otoh, RocketPort will make direct S-ATA interface a reality.
But the chips also shows in rough terms what is possible, and what isn't. For example no I/O port has any attached motors with rotor blades that makes the FPGA Replay fly ;)
Btw, I have noticed this thread had about 30.6 views per hour today.
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I created the post because the schematic is made up of pictures such that a search is not possible. And scrolling 9 huge images takes time. Re-searching for those datasheets also tend to take its time. I think some of the chips are already EOL so perhaps those datasheets will only be of use to existing FPGA Arcades. Even the critical XC3S1600 FPGA has a "not for new designs" note which just emphasize the importance of chip implementation agnostic HDL-code. Unfortunately this may mean that future version may have to use hard to attach chip packages.. .
None of the chips are EOL, and are now available cheaply in volume, which is not true for newer devices. I'll put a package of datasheets on my website as reference.
The development libraries abstract many of the board details from the core developers. I've started to roll this out to people. The idea is you don't need to know how the clock generator works, you say in the .ini file for your core give me this frequency etc.
/MikeJ
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Good that none of the periphial chips are EOL ;)
Slightly worried about the FPGA thoe.
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I'm not - and it's my problem ;)
/MikeJ
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I put a few photos up on the website
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
I've started to ship, but it's taking a while to replace all the power supplies.
We are still working to finalize the system controller software and new OSD.
I have the details of everybody who mailed me and I will be in touch as soon as I can.
I will be taking a few days holiday next week for Glastonbury festival, but I expect 150+ boards shipping by 2nd week July.
Best,
MikeJ
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Am I right that P21 - PS/2 keyboard+mouse has been replaced with a USB type A connector?
Btw, below "custom test jig" there's a picture that just hooks up the 2x joystick ports? and the picture below "dual host USB interface" seems to just be a board with one USB connector besides the one going to the ARM. Typo? ;)
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Am I right that P21 - PS/2 keyboard+mouse has been replaced with a USB type A connector?
Btw, below "custom test jig" there's a picture that just hooks up the 2x joystick ports? and the picture below "dual host USB interface" seems to just be a board with one USB connector besides the one going to the ARM. Typo? ;)
No, the test jig has electronics on the under side. It has 2 cables which go to the joysticks to auto-test them from the FPGA. Each IO pin is driven high / low and used as an input. I can test for any open/short on the daughter-board expansion connector.
The PS/2 keyboard is replaced with a small board which has the VNC2 dual USB chip on it. It has a single external USB port and one internal USB port.
/MikeJ
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I put a few photos up on the website
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
I've started to ship, but it's taking a while to replace all the power supplies.
We are still working to finalize the system controller software and new OSD.
I have the details of everybody who mailed me and I will be in touch as soon as I can.
I will be taking a few days holiday next week for Glastonbury festival, but I expect 150+ boards shipping by 2nd week July.
Best,
MikeJ
Wow, great to hear! This would be a nice early bday present for myself at the end of july. :D
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Oh boy oh boy!
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Congrats on getting to the shipping phase! I can hardly contain myself. ;)
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No, the test jig has electronics on the under side. It has 2 cables which go to the joysticks to auto-test them from the FPGA. Each IO pin is driven high / low and used as an input. I can test for any open/short on the daughter-board expansion connector.
The PS/2 keyboard is replaced with a small board which has the VNC2 dual USB chip on it. It has a single external USB port and one internal USB port.
/MikeJ
So the jig has contact with the RS-232, SD-card, DVI, Toslink, Jtag, Analog audio 3,5mm, CVBS analog, S-video analog, PS/2 (?) all via the daughter-board expansion connector ..?
Hmm.. seems I missed the obvious. The PS/2 got replaced by an USB connector between replay_test.jpg (http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/replay_test.jpg) and replay_usb2.jpg (http://www.fpgaarcade.com/common/replay_usb2.jpg) ;)
But if there's only one USB port for keyboard, where will the mouse go?
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But if there's only one USB port for keyboard, where will the mouse go?
Hub
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More cables..
Stacked USB connectors using on board hub would been better.
-
Most decent USB keyboards will have a USB port for the mouse (or other device of your choosing) on them.
I haven't owned a USB keyboard in the last 6 years that hasn't.
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Hub
I have this logitech wireless keyboard and mouse that are both paired to the same usb dongle viw windows, but they also work paired when connected to A1200 with a combo of usb->ps2 to Amiga adapters.... hopefully it will work with FPGA Replay as well... that would be one way...
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I've started to ship
This is really good news! Thanks for that info, Mike!
So, I've just started looking around for proper case for the FPGAA. I've found two good looking types:
- http://www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/customised_minimig_case.htm
- http://www.minimig.net/viewtopic.php?p=3180#p3180
Guys, do you think FPGAA will fit without any problem (I also hope that any FPGAA's slots or sockets won't be covered by the case), or maybe I should wait for some new cases when FPGAA will be released?
Thanks. :)
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@Kokos
I think MikeJ has made it to fit a half-mini-itx case
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@MikeJ,
Congratulations Mike :)
Well done on getting through all the issues and getting them shipping. I'm looking forward to seeing what people do with them once they're in the wild!
Andy
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@Kokos
I think MikeJ has made it to fit a half-mini-itx case
Like this http://www.envizage.com/products/cscitmtx006b-envizage-mtx-006b-black-mini-itx-case-with-300w-psu.html ?
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@Kokos
I think MikeJ has made it to fit a half-mini-itx case
Thanks, but well.. it's still not so clear to me what specific standard is recommended. Mike tell in his news entry on the website that it 'fits in standard itx/atx case'. I prefer ITX, and I guess the smaller case the better for me - I do not plan to use dautherboard, so I'm wondering if the Nano-ITX format is the best solution for me (or it's rather too small for this board?).
Also it'd be great to buy the case with amiga/fpgaarcade signature, I hope there will be available some, before I buy any other case.
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Awesome news!
The internal USB header is pure awesome for cases like Loriano's X500/Evo or custom mods.
Can't wait for sure!!! Cheers for the teaser pics Mike \o/
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How high is it with the daughterboard? Maybe this one would work?
http://viako.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/106207901-101414435/Mini_ITX_Case.html?tracelog=ggsotherproduct1
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How high is it with the daughterboard? Maybe this one would work?
http://viako.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/106207901-101414435/Mini_ITX_Case.html?tracelog=ggsotherproduct1
I'm on my way to the music festival so I can't check exactly.
What I remember is the 68060 with heatsink does not exceed the height of the ps2 connectors - and certainly it is all within the atx panel height.
The board is half-size itx (17cm by 8cm), mechanical drawings are on the website, but I'm going to put all the docs in a cleaner fashion on the new website. It fits in any itx/atx case with two screws.
I tried hard to get two USB connectors on the back, but it would not fit on the adapter.
You can cable off the internal header to an external connector, or use a hub. Note, in this batch nearly all the boards are PS/2 - the USB ones are really for Loriano's case. I don't have the modified ATX panel yet.
For testing, the jig connects to all the IO it can. There is a loopback on the rs232 connector so all four wires there are tested. The video outputs are tested with a couple of different ramp outputs and a scope. Same for composite / svhs. Audio is connected to a pair of speakers. For audio, it's a serial bus, so it works completely or not. PS/2 is tested by the on board pico-blaze PS/2 controller and external devices.
I am working on a probe test for volume production, but for a few 1000 devices function test is ok.
/MikeJ
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The audio D/A chip may be faulty and work partially .. :P
(Murphys law..) ;)
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I'm on my way to the music festival so I can't check exactly.
What I remember is the 68060 with heatsink does not exceed the height of the ps2 connectors - and certainly it is all within the atx panel height.
The board is half-size itx (17cm by 8cm), mechanical drawings are on the website, but I'm going to put all the docs in a cleaner fashion on the new website. It fits in any itx/atx case with two screws.
I tried hard to get two USB connectors on the back, but it would not fit on the adapter.
You can cable off the internal header to an external connector, or use a hub. Note, in this batch nearly all the boards are PS/2 - the USB ones are really for Loriano's case. I don't have the modified ATX panel yet.
For testing, the jig connects to all the IO it can. There is a loopback on the rs232 connector so all four wires there are tested. The video outputs are tested with a couple of different ramp outputs and a scope. Same for composite / svhs. Audio is connected to a pair of speakers. For audio, it's a serial bus, so it works completely or not. PS/2 is tested by the on board pico-blaze PS/2 controller and external devices.
I am working on a probe test for volume production, but for a few 1000 devices function test is ok.
/MikeJ
Any idea when FPGA be release in retail stores like AmigaKit and so forth?
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Mike: When do you expect to start full production on the daughterboard now that the main boards are shipping ? :)
:)
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shipping already!! dammit im tempted. Had to pull out of getting lorianos case and fpga replay due to money issues.
**** im gonna have to get one of these sooner or later... planning on selling my cdtv anyhow.
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shipping already!! dammit im tempted. Had to pull out of getting lorianos case and fpga replay due to money issues.
**** im gonna have to get one of these sooner or later... planning on selling my cdtv anyhow.
I'm on board. funds ready to go. Waiting for email. My A1200 needs recapped or something and is getting less reliable although it did work perfectly yesterday.
Maybe I finally have something I can use with that atrix dock.
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Haha, I thought I was the only one that got suckered into the Atrix and dock package. :) Seemed like a hell of a good idea at the time, I guess.
Looking forward to getting my email, Mike. Will be nice to run my BBS on the FPGA Arcade with the daughterboard. I'm probably one of the few people that plays zero games on the Amiga so really looking forward to seeing how well this works as a 24/7 BBS machine.
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Is there any CD32 setup for the FPGA Arcade? I thought especially on that it uses a 1 MB ROM and well.. CD which isn't implemented?
(The CD has a special MKE interface to add to the mess)
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I'm on my way to the music festival
Hi Mike! How was the gig? :>
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Is Amiga CD32 "mode" available? I guess it would involve MKE-CD-ROM interface clone from the SD-card besides floppy and harddisk mode.
And can these things be tuned?
* KS 1.2 vs 1.3
* Chip mem 512kB - 1MB - 2MB
* Floppy drive(s) 1 - 2 - 3 - 4
* PAL - NTSC
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* Chip mem 512kB - 1MB - 2MB
* Floppy drive(s) 1 - 2 - 3 - 4
* PAL - NTSC
Degrader should handle all of the Above. If Degrader does not work for disabling floppy drives then FPGA Arcade is not 100% compatible.
As far as floppy drives goes tho.. you can control them with the OSD I think. So you should be able to just have one floppy if you need.
@MikeJ
There are various weirdo-coded games that won't work with extra drives attached or extra chipmem or certain versions of kickstart. Yes it is stupid. But that's the way it is. :)
Thankfully there are not many games like that. But on the Amiga "not many" means a couple of hundred.
Regarding PAL/NTSC there are thousands of games that require the gamer to use a util to boot into PAL (or NTSC) before loading the game. Degrader can do that.
Degrader is free from Aminet and can happily sit on your hard drive until you need it.
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I was more interested in if the FPGA Replay could do this than some utility which can't really hide the hardware.
Oh and I read some games refuse to boot if you have modem connected to serial port.. doh ;)
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Here is my msg from another thread that inspired Freqmax's latest posts :)
A game that works on OCS will work on ECS too. ECS is a big Win \o/.
Some badly coded games are incompatible with 1MB chipram tho. So u can use Degrader or other similar tool to disable the extra memory temporarily and get such a game working.
Some games are incompatible with extra floppy drives attached. So u can just use Degrader or other similar tool to disable the extra drives temporarily.
I used to hardcore test game compatiblity with a giant stack of different Amiga models and I kept a list of all the games and what their requirements were so when I had a game party I could quickly get any game in the universe working.
There are a few games which are tremendously badly coded and they just won't work on Kickstart 1.3, you MUST use Kickstart 1.2 on those few games. And there are a few others, mostly old EA games that require KS 1.1 (Arctic Fox, etc.)
There are probably at least 24 games that won't work on KS 2.0+ and MUST be started with KS1.3 but I did not really test for that. I was mainly testing 1.2 vs. 1.3,
512K chip vs 1MB or 2MB chip,
1 Floppy drive vs. 2 floppy drives,
PAL vs. NTSC. (huge numbers of games won't work in the wrong video mode)
Sometimes a game will work perfectly on your machine but then when u install a trainer suddenly the game has bizarre limitations (such as one of the things listed above). So u hafta watch out for "Virgin Game" vs. "Trained Game" differences.
There were also a couple of games that would not work if you had a modem plugged in. DOH!
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And can these things be tuned?
* KS 1.2 vs 1.3
* Chip mem 512kB - 1MB - 2MB
* Floppy drive(s) 1 - 2 - 3 - 4
* PAL - NTSC
I don't have my FPGA Arcade with me, but you can set the Chip RAM from the OSD, assign the number of floppy drives and use whatever Kickstart file you want (I have 1.3 and 3.1 on my SD card).
To be honest, WHDLoad on a HDF file will take care of most games and then you can configure the machine to run the ADF of any "problem" games.
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Would be funky to get an A1000 mode with WOM and all.
Dragon's Lair and some hacker kickstarts are probably the only things that can use it that you can't use anyway?
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Is CD-rom (amiga cd32 style) implemented?
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Is CD-rom (amiga cd32 style) implemented?
You mean the ability to mount an image of a CD as if it was in an actual CD ROM drive? No.
Once we have USB we can connect an exteral CD/DVD drive.
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One additional question..
Do you think it's possible that iControlPad 2 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1703567677/icontrolpad-2-the-open-source-controller) will work with USB variant of FPGAA?
If yes, do you think I'll be able to map any controller button I want? Example - let say I'm using FPGAA, running some ADF file, I use iCP2 as joystick, and I want to skip the intro where mouse or keyboard is originally required - can I use also iCP2 for this?
Thanks & cheers!
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I am back in the real world after Glastonbury festival, lot of stuff to catch up with...
MikeJ
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I am back in the real world after Glastonbury festival, lot of stuff to catch up with...
MikeJ
Welcome back to the land of the most popular thread on AMIGA.org ever ;)
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Glad to hear it. I sent an email to you Mike. I very badly want to buy one;)
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Glad to hear it. I sent an email to you Mike. I very badly want to buy one;)
Thank you. I am working through emails.
I spent 7 days in the most amazing place on the planet, I am still completely spangled, covered in mud and glitter (and at the airport).
Normal service will be resumed asap ;)
Cheers,
MikeJ
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Thank you. I am working through emails.
I spent 7 days in the most amazing place on the planet, I am still completely spangled, covered in mud and glitter (and at the airport).
Normal service will be resumed asap ;)
Cheers,
MikeJ
Seems like it's well deserved! :)
I'm so enthusiastic that I've already bought a 060 off ebay in lieu of the daughter card :-D
EDIT:
So, here are a few FAQ items that I've compiled
Q: Does the basic FGAArcade Replay support RTG?
A: Yes, the main board supports RTG. The soft CPU has some compatibility issues so until these are resolved the 68060 on the daughterboard is required.
Hopefully this will be improved.
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=738316&postcount=2758)
Q: Is it possible or will it be possible to run Atari ST(E)/falcon core on FPGAA?
A: Yes, the Atari core is the reason mikej built this board in the first place.
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=738107&postcount=2754)
Q: Is it possible to add support for the PS3 controller?
A: The PS3 controller protocol is pretty well understood, so it could certainly be done without too much trouble. Hopefully somebody will pick it up when the code is pushed out.
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=737698&postcount=2752)
Q: What does the basic Replay board support currently of USB devices?
A: The current core is very close to the original hardware, so only 9PIN digital.
There are analog inputs on the ARM which can be used in future.
The USB adapter adds keyboard and mouse, and can be extended to all sorts of stuff in future. Although hubs are supported in the current code.
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=737639&postcount=2745)
Q: Will there be an aga core for this or ecs only?
A: AGA, although there are some compatibility issues with it yet to be resolved.
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=731750&postcount=2543)
Q: What can be configured in terms of features on the basic board?
A: IYou can set the Chip RAM from the OSD, assign the number of floppy drives and use whatever Kickstart file you want (I have 1.3 and 3.1 on my SD card).
To be honest, WHDLoad on a HDF file will take care of most games and then you can configure the machine to run the ADF of any "problem" games.
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=738845&postcount=2810)
Q: Is CD-rom (amiga cd32 style) implemented?
A: You mean the ability to mount an image of a CD as if it was in an actual CD ROM drive? No.
Once we have USB we can connect an exteral CD/DVD drive.
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=738863&postcount=2813)
Q: How high is it with the daughterboard?
A: The 68060 with heatsink does not exceed the height of the ps2 connectors - and certainly it is all within the atx panel height.
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=738479&postcount=2797)
Q: How big is the Replay board?
A: The board is half-size itx (17cm by 8cm), mechanical drawings are on the website, but mikej is going to put all the docs in a cleaner fashion on the new website. It fits in any itx/atx case with two screws.
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=738479&postcount=2797)
Q: Can I use a USB Keyb/Mouse instead of PS2?
A: mikej tried hard to get two USB connectors on the back, but it would not fit on the adapter.
You can cable off the internal header to an external connector, or use a hub. Note, in this batch nearly all the boards are PS/2 - the USB ones are really for Loriano's case. mikej doesn't have the modified ATX panel yet.
To do this, you need an optional VNC2 module. The VNC2 is an optional module which fits on the board instead of the PS2 connector and provides two USB host ports, and all the software muscle to drive them. It speaks mouse/keyboard SPI back to the FPGA which feeds it into the Amiga core.
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=738479&postcount=2797) Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=737344&postcount=2729)
Q: Can I use a real floppy drive with the Replay board?
A: Maybe in the future, user JimDrew is working on something called the SuperCard Pro
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=736444&postcount=2694) Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=738319&postcount=2759)
Q: How is firmware updated?
A: Firmware updates for the FPGA are as simple as copying the file on the SD card.
For the ARM code you push the menu button while powering on the board, and run an update program on your PC. The two will talk, the ARM flash is reprogrammed and you are good to go.
You can also update the bootloader this way too.
If you mess it up, there is a link on the board to reload a default boot loader.
The optional VNC2 module can be updated from a USB stick, and need to added before release.
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=737344&postcount=2729) Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=737381&postcount=2732)
Q: Can I use any new modern LCD screen with the Replay board?
A: Just make sure you get a monitor that supports a 50Hz vertical refresh. Darrin of Amiga.org use a couple of ViewSonic models with his Minimig and FPGA Arcade.
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=735451&postcount=2661)
Q: Where I can buy/order one of these?
A: Send an e-mail to mikej at mikej@at@fpga_no*spam?arcade.com or order one from Amedia Computer France, their website is http://amiga.amedia-computer.com (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com)
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=732239&postcount=2584) Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=739691&postcount=2820)
Q: What does it cost?
A: he price for the current boards is 199Euro + VAT for the non-composite/svhs version and 229Euro +VAT with. VAT in Sweden is 25%
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=735042&postcount=2621)
To be continued (I came as far as page 177)...
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Hi all there,
Q: Where I can buy/order one of these?
You can also send us a mail for ordering it since we the agreement from Mike directly !
The price at our company is 289 euros for the SVHS version of the FPGA Arcade version (VAT INCLUDED) ;)
We also propose a full assembled machine with a Vesa compatible MiniITX case at 479 euros instead of 529 euros (VAT INCLUDED) ;)
Don't hesitate to get in touch with us at : http://amiga.amedia-computer.com
Or send a mail to : contact@amedia-computer.com / laurent@amedia-computer.com
Thanks ;) Lionel 'Braver' and Laurent 'Faranheit'
Amedia Computer France
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Fahrenheit, You a lot of potential customers by not having an English version of your site
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Hi Yissing :)
The site http://amiga.amedia-computer.com should appear in english.
Don't go on the generic site http://www.amedia-computer.com which is not translated this one.
Only the Amiga part is translated : http://amiga.amedia-computer.com
Thanks, Lionel 'Braver' and Laurent 'Faranheit'
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Both images and text appear in French for me on the Amiga specific site.
Sounds like you need to hunt down a bug.
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Hi,
We'll investigate ;)
With Opera in english, the site appears in english ;)
See you later ;)
Thanks for the report ;)
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Well I can tell you that firefox, chrome and IE only displays the french site ;)
If you only test in opera, then you really need to expand your test suites just a bit ;)
;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Opera here. Still only in French :)
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Hi ;)
Thanks for your bug report, Lionel is hardly investigating this.
We'll solve this quickly ;)
In the meantime, if you have any question, don't hesitate to send us a mail at contact@amedia-computer.com
Thanks, Lionel 'Braver' and Laurent 'Faranheit'
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I've updated the "where to buy" question to this:
Q: Where I can buy/order one of these?
A: Send an e-mail to mikej at mikej@at@fpga_no*spam?arcade.com or order one from Amedia Computer France, their website is http://amiga.amedia-computer.com (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com)
Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=732239&postcount=2584) Source (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=739691&postcount=2820)
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Q: Can I use a real floppy drive with the Replay board?
A: Maybe in the future, user JimDrew is working on something called the SuperCard Pro
Last year I designed SuperCard Pro, which was suppose to be a simple flux level disk copier that lets you use PC floppy drives to duplicate Commodore 64 and Amiga disks. That turned into a 25ns resolution disk copier that can duplicate virtually every format and also create images of disks (flux level, so copy protection included). In the last 45 days I caved in to temptation and redesigned the hardware to allow it to not only be a disk copier, but also be a floppy drive emulator. It has a micro-SD media card to load disk images. It has two high speed serial ports that can be used to control it, transfer raw data, get directories, etc.
I am waiting to get the FPGA board from Mike, and I can look at exactly what needs to happen on the FPGA side to fetch data. I think the best way to handle this would be interface the data stream into the PAULA's data separator (providing PAULA is emulated at a low level). If there is PAULA emulation, then there should be no problems running any type of copy protection you can throw at it. If the PAULA emulation is limited, it still might be possible to inject the properly timed MFM data into the system.
I wrote many disk copiers and designed several disk copying hardware devices for the Amiga, so I am extremely familiar with what is necessary to accomplish this. So, hopefully I can work with Mike to provide not only emulated disk support, but also real floppy drive support since SuperCard Pro can do both.
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Hi Jim,
Any possibility of this being expanded to include other platforms on the FPGA Arcade (e.g C64/ST)?
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Hi Yissing :)
The site http://amiga.amedia-computer.com should appear in english.
Don't go on the generic site http://www.amedia-computer.com which is not translated this one.
Only the Amiga part is translated : http://amiga.amedia-computer.com
Thanks, Lionel 'Braver' and Laurent 'Faranheit'
Sorry, but amiga.amedia is not translated for me, its still in Frog for me. (Australia).
And the parts that are in English, have no mention of FPGAReplay.
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Hi ;)
Only the first page with the promotion pictures appears in french, the other sections are translated (account, products, informations ...).
The promotion's pictures are being translated today ;)
Thanks, Lionel 'Braver' and Laurent 'Faranheit'
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Update - I had to go directly to China for a few days from the UK.
I'll be back home end of this week. I have a number of boards ready to ship now and the test rig is set up. I have returned some of the bad power regulators to the vendor here and will get some replacements which will hopefully work - so we can ship more boards.
The ARM software with dynamic menu system (for different cores) is progressing thanks to the German R&D team ;)
So, finally I feel we are just about there. I will do a full code release and then it's going to get a bit crazy. I have more than 10 people porting cores to the board ;)
I will switch from the Amiga to the Atari core soon, with the aim of getting that out before end of July.
Note, all revB boards shipped already can be updated with the new bootloader and arm code - we don't leave anybody behind ;)
p.s. because I am in China I will be in the bar lots so sorry for not keeping up with emails...
MikeJ
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Is it going to be possible to switch from say Amiga to AtariST etc.. without switching the SD-card?
-
Hi ;)
Only the first page with the promotion pictures appears in french, the other sections are translated (account, products, informations ...).
The promotion's pictures are being translated today ;)
Thanks, Lionel 'Braver' and Laurent 'Faranheit'
Do you have a link please to the Replay ?
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Hi Jim,
Any possibility of this being expanded to include other platforms on the FPGA Arcade (e.g C64/ST)?
Already done.
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Mike,
Please work with Jim to help him provide SuperCar Pro support for the FPGA arcade. This would allow all commercial Amiga and Commodore protected floppy based software to be loadable by the FPGA Arcade, providing an IEC bus can be implemented on the FPGA Arcade. Does the FPGA Arcade have hardware floppy support, or is the emulation intended for use with disk images from flash only ?
.. Dale
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Because we are still in floppy subject, I'd also kindly remind my question, thank you.. :-)
One additional question..
Do you think it's possible that iControlPad 2 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1703567677/icontrolpad-2-the-open-source-controller) will work with USB variant of FPGAA?
If yes, do you think I'll be able to map any controller button I want? Example - let say I'm using FPGAA, running some ADF file, I use iCP2 as joystick, and I want to skip the intro where mouse or keyboard is originally required - can I use also iCP2 for this?
Thanks & cheers!
-
Do you have a link please to the Replay ?
I have just checked and all I can see is the offer page with the "MIST" at the top.
I'll send an email.
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Mike,
Please work with Jim to help him provide SuperCar Pro support for the FPGA arcade. This would allow all commercial Amiga and Commodore protected floppy based software to be loadable by the FPGA Arcade, providing an IEC bus can be implemented on the FPGA Arcade. Does the FPGA Arcade have hardware floppy support, or is the emulation intended for use with disk images from flash only ?
.. Dale
There is an IEC bus on the SuperCard Pro board, along with all of the code for handling CBM disks.
Mike and I have been chatting for a couple months about this. I am just waiting for my board to arrive to see what is needed.
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Hi,
Is the current production sold out?
-
I have stock of boards, and I am meeting the factory to discuss building more this week.
Sorry for not responding to emails this week - I am receiving lots but as I am travelling in China I haven't been able to keep up.
I will clear the backlog next weekend.
Thanks,
MikeJ
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I will clear the backlog next weekend.
Soon as you clear out that backlog I can clear out my PayPal :)
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Sorry for not responding to emails this week - I am receiving lots but as I am travelling in China I haven't been able to keep up.
I will clear the backlog next weekend.
I've been on the waiting list since april, any idea how far down I am?
I have money waiting :D
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My bank account is overflowing with a backlog of money that I have saved to purchase an FPGA Arcade Replay with 060/MMU daughtercard.
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I've been on the waiting list since april, any idea how far down I am?
I have money waiting :D
Of which year? iirc I'm waiting since april 2011 ;)
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Emailed way back but have not heard about the order so I emailed a couple more times. Good luck! hope to have one soon!
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Emailed way back but have not heard about the order so I emailed a couple more times. Good luck! hope to have one soon!
Same here :)
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My bank account is overflowing with a backlog of money that I have saved to purchase an FPGA Arcade Replay with 060/MMU daughtercard.
ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! waiting for mine with 060/MMU daughterboard... :D wonder how far down i am on the list....
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Of which year? iirc I'm waiting since april 2011 ;)
Hehe, exactly. Been since 2011 here too. :D
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Come on guys, waiting a couple of years for an Amiga hardware project to be released is nothing unusual :)
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Hi all ;)
Just wait a little more time, we'll add the FPGA Arcade board and accessories on our website since Mike has just agreed for that point ;)
In the meantime, don't hesitate to send us a mail at contact@amedia-computer.com or laurent@amedia-computer.com for reserving your product.
It's still possible ;)
Thanks, Lionel 'Braver' and Laurent 'Faranheit'
Amedia Computer France (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com)
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Of which year? iirc I'm waiting since april 2011 ;)
I'm guessing you're getting yours before I get mine then .. :)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:26:59 +0100
From: MikeJ
Done, I've added you to the list.
Best,
Mike
I'll be waiting, patiently, over here :)
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I feel really bad now for keeping you waiting, sorry. I suspect you will all get them about the same time.
I will probably need to start shipping the hardware with the boot loader and supply regular minor sw updates in the field actually - the hardware is stable, tested and isn't going to change. Maybe I shouldn't wait for software perfection ;)
/MikeJ
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I'm looking forward to being on the list ;) But most of all paying for it, so the wait can really begin LOL
@mikej
I for one wouldn't expect it to be "perfected". What's important is that the firmware upgrade functions are solid, so that users can update as you get closer and closer to perfection :)
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Definitely looking forward to paying and receiving this, and building a nice shiny new Amiga / Atari / C64 / CPC / Arcade machine :p
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An example of the new OSD - the Austrian coding team is slaving away ...
;)
/MikeJ
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I know Mike has a lot to keep up with, however I'd like to kindly remind my question, if not to mike then to the community.. Thank you. :-)
One additional question..
Do you think it's possible that iControlPad 2 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1703567677/icontrolpad-2-the-open-source-controller) will work with USB variant of FPGAA?
If yes, do you think I'll be able to map any controller button I want? Example - let say I'm using FPGAA, running some ADF file, I use iCP2 as joystick, and I want to skip the intro where mouse or keyboard is originally required - can I use also iCP2 for this?
Thanks & cheers!
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I haven't come across the iCP2 before. However, it says it behaves as a HID device, so there should be no problem mapping it into the Amiga keyboard/mouse controller.
The VNC2 chip contains the translation table. So yes, it would behave just like an original amiga mouse / keyboard as far as the system is required.
The design also convert inputs back into PS2 standard and sends these to the ARM, so you can control the OSD as well.
/Mike
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This is great. Thank you Mike! Cheers!
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The VNC2 chip contains the translation table. So yes, it would behave just like an original amiga mouse / keyboard as far as the system is required.
If it could also map them to joystick inputs as well as mouse then that would be awesome. As the mouse uses the joystick ports (at least for buttons, but moving the mouse also affects the joystick direction inputs) then I would hope it wasn't too hard :-)
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I will probably need to start shipping the hardware with the boot loader and supply regular minor sw updates in the field actually - the hardware is stable, tested and isn't going to change. Maybe I shouldn't wait for software perfection ;)
/MikeJ
I've been hinting at that for about..... a year! ;)
I think you should take the Chameleon64 approach and issue the core, let people play with it and get some feedback on the bugs.
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Yes, please don't wait to get it perfect, get it good enough and ship it!
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Hi all ;)
After Mike has given his agreement yesterday for an exact point, you can now see the FPGA Arcade / Replay board on our webshop ;)
All can be found :
- HERE for a complete system (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/9/CONFVESAFPGA),
- HERE for the board itself (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/10/TAK_FPGAARBOARD),
- HERE for the accessories (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/visu/3/11).
In the board page, you'll be able to see a little video showing it in action (with the old firmware for the moment).
When we receive the new firmware, we'll post a new video ;)
Thanks to Mike and Jakub for their awesome work !
Lionel 'Braver' and Laurent 'Faranheit'
Amedia Computer France (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com)
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Thanks. I understand the back-panel won't be available together with the main-board that MikeJ will ship, am I right?
Thanks.
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Hi Kokos,
If you have not requested it with the board, it will not be shipped with the board.
Thanks, Lionel 'Braver' and Laurent 'Faranheit'
Amedia Computer France (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com)
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I never heard from MikeJ there is such an option, only FPGAA with or without composite out.. No hear about back-panel until now.
It's a pitty if we won't receive the back-panel.. And I'm sorry. but 20 EUR for piece of aluminium is quite ridiculous price in my opinion..
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How is a back panel 20 euros.. I can 3d print one for $5 a piece in ABS plastic.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one here.. I thought this is a standard - typically the mainboards are delivered with the backpanel. In this scenario i need to buy the board (+shipment) from Mike and the backpanel from Fahrenheit for 20 EUR (+shipment). It really sounds nuts. I hope It's some kind of misunderstanding.
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How is a back panel 20 euros.. I can 3d print one for $5 a piece in ABS plastic.
Perhaps because the back panel Mike had made is not 3D printed out of ABS plastic?
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Hi Mike.
Haven't heard from you in a while. Just sent you another email.
I hope you haven't about forgotten me.
EDIT: Do people still use IO Panels? I almost always forget to take mine out of the box.
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I never heard from MikeJ there is such an option, only FPGAA with or without composite out.. No hear about back-panel until now.
Mike indicated very early on that a back panel would be an additional cost and asked who was interested in him getting one made for sale as an option. The general consensus at the time was that people would buy them, so apparently he had them made.
Cost for things like this can seem quite high unless done in high quantities.
The great thing is that it's an option - if you don't want it, don't buy it.
Also, pricing from Mike direct may be a bit cheaper.
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In this scenario i need to buy the board (+shipment) from Mike and the backpanel (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=58058&type=2&ext=140998908347&item=140998908347) from Fahrenheit for 20 EUR (+shipment).
Why would you not source both from the same place to save on shipping costs?
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I'm guessing you're getting yours before I get mine then .. :)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:26:59 +0100
From: MikeJ
Done, I've added you to the list.
Best,
Mike
I'll be waiting, patiently, over here :)
From: MikeJ (mikej@freeuk.com)
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 9:03 PM
To: Robert
Subject: Re: Book FPGArcade
will do!
Cheers,
Mike
__________________________________________
I am waiting too a reply from Mike, hope he will include me in one of the first batches.
Eager to try the FPGArcade :-)
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How is payment done?
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How is payment done?
You stuff $500 in used Dollar bills into a plain brown envelope and then leave them in the trashcan next to the bench by St Paul's Cathedral at midnight.
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Getting the ATX panels was a real nightmare.
If you want 100K, no problem, they are sub 1USD.
The tooling cost is huge to cut out the holes.
Eventually I found a supplier in Taiwan who would laser cut them from blanks.
Price list on my website shortly as well shortly, I need to charge Swedish VAT at 25% for EU shipping, so the prices are about the same. These are sold at cost.
/MikeJ
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The great thing is that it's an option - if you don't want it, don't buy it.
Well, it's not so simple for me. I can't imagine fancy itx case without backpanel, not everyone likes huge hole on the back.. I'd say I need it, but the price for the backpanel is still ridiculously high in my opinion. Of course I appreciate others opinions and I respect them. I also respect Fahrenheit right to make a business and Mike effort to get it all right.. However I still see this as a problem, maybe not for you, but for me then.. :-(
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Well, it's not so simple for me. I can't imagine fancy itx case without backpanel, not everyone likes huge hole on the back.. I'd say I need it, but the price for the backpanel is still ridiculously high in my opinion. Of course I appreciate others opinions and I respect them. I also respect Fahrenheit right to make a business and Mike effort to get it all right.. However I still see this as a problem, maybe not for you, but for me then.. :-(
Kokos, I am happy to send you the engineering drawings of the back panel if you wish to get your own fabricated.
Best,
MikeJ
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Kokos, I am happy to send you the engineering drawings of the back panel if you wish to get your own fabricated.
Best,
MikeJ
Are you going to do a backplate that works with the usb option ? I guess if you don't have the svhs/composite option the holes will still be there, but the hole for the ps2 connectors isn't going to be the right shape for usb.
Also what about the daughter board connectors? I would prefer not to have to buy another back plate when that comes out....
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How is a back panel 20 euros.. I can 3d print one for $5 a piece in ABS plastic.
I'm just going to cut my own out of an asbestos sheet and paint it with lead based paint.
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I'm just going to cut my own out of an asbestos sheet and paint it with lead based paint.
Does it come with free 200 000 EUR free medical gift voucher? :D
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Getting the ATX panels was a real nightmare.
If you want 100K, no problem, they are sub 1USD.
The tooling cost is huge to cut out the holes.
Eventually I found a supplier in Taiwan who would laser cut them from blanks.
/MikeJ
Back when I was working my way through school, I did a summer at a sheet metal fabber, They had a rotary turret press that would be handy for this kind of thing. You'd mount a selection of stock punches - say a rectangular hole for a USB jack - in the press. Then you'd make a template with a small round hole in the center of each punch. Each type of punch would be connected with a colored marker. The template screwed down to the work table on the press. The working stock would be held by air clamps by a thing like a gaming joystick on X-Y rails. Follow the colored lines on the template and punch all the holes of one type, click the shifter and go to the next punch... Easier to do than to describe. ;-)
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I'm just going to cut my own out of an asbestos sheet and paint it with lead based paint.
Make it out of brass instead... then you get extra bonus points for being steampunk. ;-)
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Hi all ;)
In the board page, you'll be able to see a little video showing it in action (with the old firmware for the moment).
When we receive the new firmware, we'll post a new video ;)
Link is on the board page, but no video on the link.
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Kokos, I am happy to send you the engineering drawings of the back panel if you wish to get your own fabricated.
Best,
MikeJ
Hi Mike,
That'd be great to have those backpanel drawings published. I'm interested in composite+usb variant, however someone can be interested in other.
Thank you Mike.
Kind regards,
Kokos
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Guys, stay on topic please. This is the FPGA Replay Board thread, not the XMOS thread ...
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@thread
we've had a request to split the XMOS-related discussion into a new thread. anyone second the motion? :)
-- eliyahu
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Yes, I second it!
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Yes, I second it!
seconded and carried. please continue the XMOS-related discussion in this new thread (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65421). thank you.
-- eliyahu
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Can the FPGA replay fit in a 5 1/4 inch drive bay?
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Can the FPGA replay fit in a 5 1/4 inch drive bay?
I can't see a reason why not (put in length though and not the fascia). You'd have to make some custom extension cables in order to drive them on the back but not something a modder can't do :)
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The replay board is emulating an Amiga, but what about others cores if any? How one can play the games on the FPGA Arcade site? It seems that the card is shipping but I can't find any doc about how to use it. Any help? Thanks Kamelito
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Still haven't received a reply.
Damn it Mike! It's time you hire a secretary ;)
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No he's been possesed by the Amiga curse.. :D
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How many people would be interested in purchasing the FPGA Arcade from a source in the U.S.? I am considering buying a bunch of them, so I am curious how many U.S. buyers there would actually be. I would hate to get stuck with a pile of boards! I figured the U.S. retail (at today's exchange rate) is ~$299 for the version with the SVHS option. Let me know! Thanks!
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How many people would be interested in purchasing the FPGA Arcade from a source in the U.S.? I am considering buying a bunch of them, so I am curious how many U.S. buyers there would actually be. I would hate to get stuck with a pile of boards! I figured the U.S. retail (at today's exchange rate) is ~$299 for the version with the SVHS option. Let me know! Thanks!
I want one! But only when I can get 060 with MMU card with it. I am a developer and I simply must have 060 MMU otherwise it would be a downgrade from my current Amiga. And I hafta run MuGuardianAngel, etc. anyway.
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How many people would be interested in purchasing the FPGA Arcade from a source in the U.S.? I am considering buying a bunch of them, so I am curious how many U.S. buyers there would actually be. I would hate to get stuck with a pile of boards! I figured the U.S. retail (at today's exchange rate) is ~$299 for the version with the SVHS option. Let me know! Thanks!
I'm a US resident that's interested in getting ahold of one. If it'd be simpler to buy one from Jim Drew (got a Signature Edition planned?) than direct from Mike, I'd be interested...
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Still haven't received a reply.
Damn it Mike! It's time you hire a secretary ;)
Sorry Blinx - I thought I had caught up with most mails. Mail me again and tell me you are Blinx!
/MikeJ
busy playing with my new microscope for SMD inspection ...
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I want one! But only when I can get 060 with MMU card with it. I am a developer and I simply must have 060 MMU otherwise it would be a downgrade from my current Amiga. And I hafta run MuGuardianAngel, etc. anyway.
OK, noted. Thanks. I am not sure how far off the 060 daughtercard is.
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I'm a US resident that's interested in getting ahold of one. If it'd be simpler to buy one from Jim Drew (got a Signature Edition planned?) than direct from Mike, I'd be interested...
LOL! No, I don't have plans for a signature series edition. :) I think what Mike has accomplished so far, and the direction this can go, is something that I want to help support. I know that often times some of the best hardware is also the most difficult or expensive to get when it's not made and/or distributed by a U.S. based company. So, I was interested in trying to make them more readily available here in the U.S. I also want to help with development of stuff for the board, and accessories. If there are only a few people here in the U.S. that want the board, then it probably doesn't make any sense for me to make a bulk purchase of them just to sit on them. So, I am trying to get a feel for the level of interest for U.S. based people. I would not offer them to people outside of the U.S. as that would defeat the purpose.
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Sorry Blinx - I thought I had caught up with most mails. Mail me again and tell me you are Blinx!
/MikeJ
busy playing with my new microscope for SMD inspection ...
I have a 20x/40x/60x unit that plugs into the USB port. I got it probably 10 years ago. It was some kind of toy microscope, but the quality is superb and at 60x it's perfect for SMT inspection!
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I have a 20x/40x/60x unit that plugs into the USB port. I got it probably 10 years ago. It was some kind of toy microscope, but the quality is superb and at 60x it's perfect for SMT inspection!
Oh you should see the toy I got in SZ ;) The lens is over a foot long...
LED ring around the end for illumination, and flat screen monitor for viewing.
It's too silly for normal use, the six inch one is fine..
The small one looks a bit like this :
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/585367650/Electronic_digital_microscope_Microscope_video_microscope.html
Only downside is the high-res camera is USB only, if I want to use the little screen I need to swap for the one with video out. Being video there is almost no lag, which is useful if you are trying to solder the thing under it.
Anyhow, back to work...
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Sorry Blinx - I thought I had caught up with most mails. Mail me again and tell me you are Blinx!
/MikeJ
busy playing with my new microscope for SMD inspection ...
I also havn't received a reply yet. I assume you are mailing people now for payment details? Or is this still initial interest? I guess my own bday present will be a bit late...
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I also havn't received a reply yet. I assume you are mailing people now for payment details? Or is this still initial interest? I guess my own bday present will be a bit late...
You're not the only one, believe me.
Mike, I perfectly understand you've been busy as hell these last year(s?) so it makes all sense to hire someone to keep up that paper/email work for you, since otherwise you risk to loose potential buyers (such as me).
Do you keep a list of people who showed interest on FPGA?
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You're not the only one, believe me.
Mike, I perfectly understand you've been busy as hell these last year(s?) so it makes all sense to hire someone to keep up that paper/email work for you, since otherwise you risk to loose potential buyers (such as me).
Do you keep a list of people who showed interest on FPGA?
If I was to try and do this as a real job, or hire people, it would not be possible to sell it for a remotely sensible price at all...
I have a list of everybody who has ever expressed interest. I receive 10s of emails a day, and although I try to respond sometimes I get swamped.
Once I have everything released I can focus on selling it - but I refuse to take money or promise a delivery date until it is ready.
Luckily it now, pretty much, is ...
Best,
Mike
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Which is a very professional attitude and is much better than expecting prepayment like has been required in the past for a number of other Amiga hardware projects.
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If I was to try and do this as a real job, or hire people, it would not be possible to sell it for a remotely sensible price at all...Mike
OK, I didn't thought on that.
Somehow I got the idea that you dived completely into this, leaving your job. Ok, bad understanding from me. It wasn't clear for me I guess.
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Oh you should see the toy I got in SZ ;) The lens is over a foot long...
LED ring around the end for illumination, and flat screen monitor for viewing.
It's too silly for normal use, the six inch one is fine..
The small one looks a bit like this :
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/585367650/Electronic_digital_microscope_Microscope_video_microscope.html
Only downside is the high-res camera is USB only, if I want to use the little screen I need to swap for the one with video out. Being video there is almost no lag, which is useful if you are trying to solder the thing under it.
Anyhow, back to work...
Dang it Mike! Now I gotta go looking for a replacement! I would love to get something that was self contained (non-USB) so I don't need a computer.
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The market is not big enough for these types of projects to be a 'job'. I am in the same boat as Mike. I do my toy projects on my own free time. Fortunately for both Mike and I, our jobs are closely related with the development of other projects so it gives us the luxury to do snooping for sources and such while doing real work.
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If I was to try and do this as a real job, or hire people, it would not be possible to sell it for a remotely sensible price at all...
I have a list of everybody who has ever expressed interest. I receive 10s of emails a day, and although I try to respond sometimes I get swamped.
Once I have everything released I can focus on selling it - but I refuse to take money or promise a delivery date until it is ready.
Luckily it now, pretty much, is ...
Best,
Mike
Thanks for your hard work Mike!!! Oh, I account for at least 1/3 of the views on this thread. :biglaugh:
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I am in the USA and interested if I cannot get one elsewhere. I think and hope that I am still on MikeJ's list. Although I haven't been pestering him with too many emails because I know he is busy and would rather let him spend time on the board.
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Well, any idea when the "ready to ship" period comes to the end ;) and next step will start then after?
Regards,
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I plugged a DVI to HDMI cable into the Replay board but my LCD TV says "No Signal" is there anything I can do? If you need more details let me know. Thanks Kamel
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I plugged a DVI to HDMI cable into the Replay board but my LCD TV says "No Signal" is there anything I can do? If you need more details let me know. Thanks Kamel
Turn on the Replay? :D
Try a different monitor?
Try a different cable?
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It's not a monitor but a TV and I don't have any other cable. I've a VGA one but I can't get my hand on my DVI to VGA adaptor. I've edited the HDMI/DVI port to PC or DVI PC but still no input message. Kamel
Turn on the Replay? :D
Try a different monitor?
Try a different cable?
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I plugged a DVI to HDMI cable into the Replay board but my LCD TV says "No Signal" is there anything I can do? If you need more details let me know. Thanks Kamel
I assume you are running the old Amiga core - HDMI will not work with this code.
Basically, the video standard must be recognized by your TV as a proper format.
This is not a problem with custom video modes (RTG) but will be with the native Amiga output. I suspect we are going to end up with original timing which may not work over HDMI, and "tweaked" which will, but will not be 100% faithful to the original hardware.
The new code has various test modes which will show you HDMI is working fine on the board.
/MikeJ
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Well, any idea when the "ready to ship" period comes to the end ;) and next step will start then after?
Regards,
They are, but it's still a lot of work to test/package and ship each board - especially as the power regulator needs to be replaced on each board. I am working on a bulk shipment to a disti at the moment, then I will continue to mail people on my list and if they are still interested take payment and ship. Most of my time is spent on the last bits and pieces of the firmware. I've already talked to the factory about the next batch, which will be tested and shipped from China directly.
/MikeJ
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I assume you are running the old Amiga core - HDMI will not work with this code.
Basically, the video standard must be recognized by your TV as a proper format.
This is not a problem with custom video modes (RTG) but will be with the native Amiga output. I suspect we are going to end up with original timing which may not work over HDMI, and "tweaked" which will, but will not be 100% faithful to the original hardware.
The new code has various test modes which will show you HDMI is working fine on the board.
/MikeJ
Thanks for the response, how do I get and install the new core? I read that the cable said "HDMI to DVI" is this the problem? or HDMI to DVI also do "DVI to HDMI" it's this cable I've. http://www.amazon.com/BlueRigger-Speed-Adapter-Cable-Meters/dp/B004S4R5CK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374612958&sr=8-1&keywords=dvi+hdmi+bluerigger Kamel
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@ Kamelito
While using the old core, just grab a DVI-VGA cable and use that. I tried using DVI adapters when I first got my FPGA Arcade, but they didn't work.
@ Mike:
When can we expect the new core? I've been off 3 weeks and I have 5 days left before I go back to work...
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They are, but it's still a lot of work to test/package and ship each board - especially as the power regulator needs to be replaced on each board. I am working on a bulk shipment to a disti at the moment, then I will continue to mail people on my list and if they are still interested take payment and ship. Most of my time is spent on the last bits and pieces of the firmware. I've already talked to the factory about the next batch, which will be tested and shipped from China directly.
/MikeJ
@mikej - Any chance you are working on the March 2011 peeps on your list? My wife is getting suspicious about that shoe box under the bed labeled "Mikej's Green Backs". Of course it is properly sealed against any causal snooping, but you know women eventual they got to know everything. :lol:
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@ JimDrew ..
I should be on Mike's list of "Yes, I Want One!". I'd be happy to buy through you Jim, especially should floppy support be a reality anytime soon for the Amiga core.
@ MikeJ ..
Do you have URL's to the available cores ?
Do you have any documentation, or has anyone in the community written up any ?
@ All the current FPGA owners using the Amiga core ..
1. How are drives being handled for FD0 and HD0 using the SD card ?
2. How do you get kickstart and WB loaded on an SD card ?
3. Since there is no physical floppy support yet, I presume all FPGA owners are only able to use ADF files which are being mounted via an integrated ARM controller ? .. Or, is some form of WHDLoad being used ?
I'd love to dive in and just want to make sure there's water in the pool first ..
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@ All the current FPGA owners using the Amiga core ..
1. How are drives being handled for FD0 and HD0 using the SD card ?
2. How do you get kickstart and WB loaded on an SD card ?
3. Since there is no physical floppy support yet, I presume all FPGA owners are only able to use ADF files which are being mounted via an integrated ARM controller ? .. Or, is some form of WHDLoad being used ?
I'd love to dive in and just want to make sure there's water in the pool first ..
#1: Up to 4 floppy drives emulated and ADF files (located on the SD card) loaded via OSM (just like UAE), and 2 hard drives emulated via HDF files on the SD card. I just use a single 4GB SD card with ADF files in one directory, 1.3 and 3.1 Kickstarts and a single 2GB hard file (ClassicWB with lots of games loaded to run via WHDLoad).
#2: Download the Kickstart files and WB ADF files from the net onto your PC/Mac and then copy them onto the SD Card.
#3: Both. See #1.
:)
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Did you try the arcade games on the fgpa arcade website? Can you have them all in a SD card alongside the Amiga core? Is there a procedure how to install them?
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@Sysop:
1. The FPGA Arcade board can handle 2 HDF hardfiles of 3,99GB maximum size (FAT32 limitations),
2. Kickstart file must copied at the root of the SD Card and you can install at least Workbench 3.5 (standard or Classic WB 3.5) on any of the 2 HDF hardfiles using the the ADF virtual floppies of the Workbench or WinUAE,
3. The FPGA Arcade board can handle up to 4 virtual drives at 2 differents read speed.
You can have a look at our video showing it in action on our website HERE with the 'Watch Video' button (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/9/CONFVESAFPGA) or HERE with the 'Watch Video' button (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/10/TAK_FPGAARBOARD).
Prices INCLUDES french VAT for informations.
@Kamelito: DVI / VGA adapter (not cable) works fine with the FPGA Arcade board and we have succesfully tested Rise of the Robots, Hybris, Canon Fodder 1 / 2, Lemmings, California Games, Super Stardust .... on the old firmware, and also Classic Workbench 3.5, Dopus 4.x, DPaintIV, Delitracker, and overall WHDLoad games ;)
Thanks, Lionel 'Braver' et Laurent 'Faranheit'
Amedia Computer France (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com)
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Had a strange thought... How does Replay cope with Widescreen monitors? Does it keep 4:3 aspect and use bars down side or stretch screen?
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I have Amiga Forever from Cloanto on my PC, as well as an old A1000 (working) and A600 (not), either of which I'm seriously considering cannibalizing with an FPGA Arcade board. Question - would the Kickstart & Workbench files provided by Cloanto's Amiga Forever work with the FPGA?
@Sysop:
1. The FPGA Arcade board can handle 2 HDF hardfiles of 3,99GB maximum size (FAT32 limitations),
2. Kickstart file must copied at the root of the SD Card and you can install at least Workbench 3.5 (standard or Classic WB 3.5) on any of the 2 HDF hardfiles using the the ADF virtual floppies of the Workbench or WinUAE,
3. The FPGA Arcade board can handle up to 4 virtual drives at 2 differents read speed.
You can have a look at our video showing it in action on our website HERE with the 'Watch Video' button (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/9/CONFVESAFPGA) or HERE with the 'Watch Video' button (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/10/TAK_FPGAARBOARD).
Prices INCLUDES french VAT for informations.
@Kamelito: DVI / VGA adapter (not cable) works fine with the FPGA Arcade board and we have succesfully tested Rise of the Robots, Hybris, Canon Fodder 1 / 2, Lemmings, California Games, Super Stardust .... on the old firmware, and also Classic Workbench 3.5, Dopus 4.x, DPaintIV, Delitracker, and overall WHDLoad games ;)
Thanks, Lionel 'Braver' et Laurent 'Faranheit'
Amedia Computer France (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com)
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Had a strange thought... How does Replay cope with Widescreen monitors? Does it keep 4:3 aspect and use bars down side or stretch screen?
Good question - there's not much you can do about classic software that assumes a 4:3 display, especially all those PAL titles that really made good use of the extra vertical resolution that PAL gave.
Maybe the non-overscanned 320x200 NTSC stuff won't look odd - that's 16:10.
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Had a strange thought... How does Replay cope with Widescreen monitors? Does it keep 4:3 aspect and use bars down side or stretch screen?
I imagine for PAL it outputs a 720x576 screen and it's up to you to tell your TV how it should be displayed. 720x576 is the resolution of PAL 4:3, the pixels aren't square so you can't calculate the aspect ratio using just the resolution (Pixels are 1.066:1 i.e. slightly wider than they are tall, not sure if NTSC is the same).
OCS Amiga's couldn't output "square pixels".
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Had a strange thought... How does Replay cope with Widescreen monitors? Does it keep 4:3 aspect and use bars down side or stretch screen?
Depends on how I set my monitor. If I set it to 4:3 then I have bars down either side, and if I set it to HFILL or JUST then it stretches it.
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I have Amiga Forever from Cloanto on my PC, as well as an old A1000 (working) and A600 (not), either of which I'm seriously considering cannibalizing with an FPGA Arcade board. Question - would the Kickstart & Workbench files provided by Cloanto's Amiga Forever work with the FPGA?
I'm not sure if the core was written to work with Cloanto's KS files as well, but if you rip the KS ROM images from within Amiga Forever then you end up with non-encoded images. Personally, I just suggest you download them from the Internet.
I own just about every KS from 1.2 onwards via real Amiga computers and I can't be bother ed to "rip" something that I can download in a couple of seconds. I already own the physical thing it so what difference does it make at the end of the day?
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Still no luck :( I tried a DVI to VGA adaptor but got "Mode not supported" message from the TV. (my TV is a samsung UE4B6000) I've one similar to this one but as there's many, is this one the right one (enough pins)? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Adapter_DVI_to_VGA.jpg I also tried a composite cable like this one : http://zxbvlm.blogspot.fr/2013/07/6-feet-3-rca-composite-av.html But if I switch the TV then the FPGA Arcade, I got the message "No signal". If I switch the FPGA Arcade then the TV I see a partial workbench screen (half black and half workbench vertically, the quality is bad) then 2s after the "No signal" message. Any help is more than welcome. Kamelito
Thanks for the response, how do I get and install the new core? I read that the cable said "HDMI to DVI" is this the problem? or HDMI to DVI also do "DVI to HDMI" it's this cable I've. http://www.amazon.com/BlueRigger-Speed-Adapter-Cable-Meters/dp/B004S4R5CK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374612958&sr=8-1&keywords=dvi+hdmi+bluerigger Kamel
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Still no luck :( I tried a DVI to VGA adaptor but got "Mode not supported" message from the TV. (my TV is a samsung UE4B6000) I've one similar to this one but as there's many, is this one the right one (enough pins)? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Adapter_DVI_to_VGA.jpg I also tried a composite cable like this one : http://zxbvlm.blogspot.fr/2013/07/6-feet-3-rca-composite-av.html But if I switch the TV then the FPGA Arcade, I got the message "No signal". If I switch the FPGA Arcade then the TV I see a partial workbench screen (half black and half workbench vertically, the quality is bad) then 2s after the "No signal" message. Any help is more than welcome. Kamelito
Depends what modes your TV supports on the VGA input. Mail me directly.
Give me a few more days then we will roll out the new code and you can use some test core to see which display modes work.
Wire up the RS232 output of the board to your PC if you can.
/MikeJ
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Depends what modes your TV supports on the VGA input. Mail me directly.
Give me a few more days then we will roll out the new code and you can use some test core to see which display modes work.
Wire up the RS232 output of the board to your PC if you can.
/MikeJ
Mail sent. Complete TV spec. http://www.lcd-compare.com/televiseur-SAM40B6000-SAMSUNG-UE40B6000.htm
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I'm lost on this thread, is this a FPGA Accelerator board being developed as a daughter board for classic OS? can someone explain please.. ;-)
I know Lotharek created a Mist board for Atari/Amiga running on FPGA..
http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=96
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I'm lost on this thread, is this a FPGA Accelerator board being developed as a daughter board for classic OS? can someone explain please.. ;-)
I know Lotharek created a Mist board for Atari/Amiga running on FPGA..
http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=96
Look like it should take scan doubled 60Hz (which is the default) on VGA input. Odd.
/MikeJ
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I have found that a great many TVs and monitors have buggy instruction manuals. The manuals say one thing but the reality is the opposite. Sometimes the tv is better than the manual says it is and other times it is worse than it says it is.
Can this TV be upgraded to a new version via its USB port?
Maybe they released a bugfix patch for the TV OS?
A lot of TVs have an upgrade feature. Mine is upgradeable but I never dared to try it. I don't want to risk blowing up my $2000.00 monitor/TV.
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If I switch the FPGA Arcade then the TV I see a partial workbench screen (half black and half workbench vertically, the quality is bad) then 2s after the "No signal" message.
Any picture of this ..?
Regarding the Samsung UE40B6000 it seems to lack the PAL modes:
Modes daffichage (VGA et HDMI / DVI)
- 640 x 480 @ 60, 72, 75 Hz
- 800 x 600 @ 60, 72, 75 Hz
- 1024 x 768 @ 60, 70, 75 Hz
- 1152 x 864 @ 75 Hz
- 1280 x 720 @ 70 Hz
- 1280 x 1024 @ 60, 70, 75 Hz
- 1280 x 800 @ 60, 74 Hz
- 1280 x 960 @ 60 Hz
- 1360 x 768 @ 60 Hz
- 1440 x 900 @ 60, 75 Hz
- 1680 x 1050 @ 60 Hz
- 1920 x 1080 @ 60 Hz
Perhaps 720x576p @ 50Hz is missing:
https://engineering.purdue.edu/ece477/Webs/S12-Grp10/Datasheets/CEC_HDMI_Specification.pdf
"An HDMI Sink that accepts 50Hz video formats shall support the 640x480p @ 59.94/60Hz and 720x576p @ 50Hz video format timings." .. note that the supported formats doesn't include any 50 Hz ones.
Also listed under "6.3.1 Primary Video Format Timings".
Perhaps some code could be written that makes use of this:
"The DDC channel is used by an HDMI Source to determine the capabilities and characteristics of the Sink by reading the E-EDID data structure."
Ie if no 720x576p @ 50Hz format is available, then adapt some other..
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I managed to get a half decent WB screen (through VGA) by using the productivity screen mode which is 60hz. All others are 50hz, how can I have them all in 60hz instead of 50hz since NTSC is 60hz how do I switch to NTSC? I don't really recall how to do it except by pressing the 2 buttons during boot but as since I've no image it's worthless. I just need to have them to 60hz in the prefs. Is this something that you can set in the minimig core settings? If yes then I'm screwed since I can't display it correctly. Just a thing about wireless kb and mouse, while I can use the keyboard from many meters, the mouse is only working around a meter from the receiver :( be careful when you buy yours. (http://reviews.cnet.com/keyboards/dexxa-wls-dt-kybd/4505-3134_7-6295942.html) Can anyone tell if my VGA adaptor is the right one?
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@Kamelito
Can you switch your Workbench into NTSC mode and it works?
Can you switch your Workbench into Dbl_NTSC mode and it works?
When you answer these questions then we can go to the next step.
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@Kamelito
Can you switch your Workbench into NTSC mode and it works?
Can you switch your Workbench into Dbl_NTSC mode and it works?
When you answer these questions then we can go to the next step.
I only have pal screenmodes, how do I get NTSC modes from within the workbench, I can't have access to minimig settings cause I can't see it properly nearly nothing in fact. There's a file named "MINIMIG2.CFG" can it be hacked to set NTSC? Kamelito
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Ok you are using a sabotaged Workbench. I have encountered this many times.
You need to unsabotage it.
There is a dir on your Workbench called DEVS:Monitors/ and it should have all your monitor drivers in there.
Obviously your NTSC and Double_NTSC drivers are missing.
They should be located in DEVS:Storage/
but some ppl have copied them into DEVS:Monitor_Backup/
or DEVS:MonitorDriverBackups/
or somesuch.
When you find the dir they are hiding in then you can copy them over into your DEVS:Monitors/ dir and reboot your Amiga and then you will have access to NTSC modes. Copy over any other interesting modes that you want to try out while you are at it. VGA, Productivity, Multiscan72, etc.
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Still no luck :( I tried a DVI to VGA adaptor but got "Mode not supported" message from the TV. (my TV is a samsung UE4B6000) I've one similar to this one but as there's many, is this one the right one (enough pins)? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Adapter_DVI_to_VGA.jpg I also tried a composite cable like this one : http://zxbvlm.blogspot.fr/2013/07/6-feet-3-rca-composite-av.html But if I switch the TV then the FPGA Arcade, I got the message "No signal". If I switch the FPGA Arcade then the TV I see a partial workbench screen (half black and half workbench vertically, the quality is bad) then 2s after the "No signal" message. Any help is more than welcome. Kamelito
That's similar what I had when I first got mine and tried using a DVI-VGA adapter along with a VGA-VGA cable. I thought I had a faulty board and then I tried a DVI-VGA cable and it worked. If you have one handy (or can borrow one) then give it a go.
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If you can't find the Monitor Drivers on your hard drive then you can always copy them off of a Workbench 3.0 or higher floppy disk. If you hafta copy off a floppy I would recommend copying from a Workbench 3.1 floppy disk.
Once you have all the screenmodes available that a 1992 Commodore Amiga shipped with you should be able to find 2 or more modes that work really well with your futuristic FPGA Replay NostalgiaStation(tm). :D
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How can he make use of DEVS: driver options when he can't even manouver the workbench at all?
I suspect som magic keys or configuration file is the way to go.
NostalgiaStation(tm) ;)
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How can he make use of DEVS: driver options when he can't even manouver the workbench at all?
He said he got Productivity mode working already. I have no idea how he did that if he couldn't see the screen... I assume he is using a TCP connection (Telepathic Cranial Protocol). Or "Mind Control" as it is popularly referred to. :D
But he could just as easily copy the files around on his Amiga Real Machine or his Amiga Virtual Machine or his Windoze box or whatever. It is just file copying.
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He said he got Productivity mode working already. I have no idea how he did that if he couldn't see the screen... I assume he is using a TCP connection (Telepathic Cranial Protocol). Or "Mind Control" as it is popularly referred to. :D
But he could just as easily copy the files around on his Amiga Real Machine or his Amiga Virtual Machine or his Windoze box or whatever. It is just file copying.
I managed productivity because I've FSUAE under OSX that's the magic :) I copy over dblntsc and ntsc from another HD file. Config : DVI to VGA DBLNTSC : KO NTSC : OK the screen is perfect That way I could access the minimig prefs and switch the core to NTSC Then I choose a game and it worked :) The only problem is that music is too fast due to PAL vs NTSC timing. (poor programming I guess) Nontheless thanks to you all at least for now I've a working configuration under VGA which is for now more than enough. Time to take a fresh air then play some old games :) Kamelito
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Most Amiga games require PAL mode to work 100% perfectly.
But for now you could stick to those few games that work in NTSC. I think All Cinemaware games work perfectly in NTSC so it might be time to fire up Wings. :)
btw: What about DoublePal? Does that work on your TV? There are lots of monitors I have tested that won't work with PAL mode but they DO work with DoublePal. I think DoublePal should technically work on your TV.
p.s. I have a bunch of CRT monitors saved up that will work with PAL mode forever and ever.
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Are there any cores for the arcade fpga other than an Amiga one? I'd love to play PC Engine and SNES.
@mikej is there a way I can verify where I am in the preorder list, I have tried to enquirer by email but got no reply :/
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Most Amiga games require PAL mode to work 100% perfectly.
But for now you could stick to those few games that work in NTSC. I think All Cinemaware games work perfectly in NTSC so it might be time to fire up Wings. :)
btw: What about DoublePal? Does that work on your TV? There are lots of monitors I have tested that won't work with PAL mode but they DO work with DoublePal. I think DoublePal should technically work on your TV.
p.s. I have a bunch of CRT monitors saved up that will work with PAL mode forever and ever.
You mean that in the US you missed all that PAL games? I've seen that in the C64 scene they do a lot of NTSC fixes maybe we could do the same.
Kamelito
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You mean that in the US you missed all that PAL games? I've seen that in the C64 scene they do a lot of NTSC fixes maybe we could do the same.
Kamelito
No no no. We didn't miss anything. We just boot our Amigas into PAL mode with a little proggy called "Palboot". Then our American Amiga is just like a Euro Amiga. I have played thousands of PAL games on my NTSC Amigas since 1980s.
All the games I write require PAL mode too because I need the higher resolution and I code the World's Fastest Blitting Routines(tm). :)
All my monitors from 1980s to 2013 work equally well in NTSC and PAL modes.
A lot of my fave games are PAL. Turrican 1, Turrican 2, Robocop 2, Total Chaos AGA 7, zillionz of others.
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Are there any cores for the arcade fpga other than an Amiga one? I'd love to play PC Engine and SNES.
@mikej is there a way I can verify where I am in the preorder list, I have tried to enquirer by email but got no reply :/
I received your email yesterday afternoon. Yes, you are on the list for the current boards.
/MikeJ
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I received your email yesterday afternoon. Yes, you are on the list for the current boards.
/MikeJ
Cool cheers!
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We just boot our Amigas into PAL mode with a little proggy called "Palboot". Then our American Amiga is just like a Euro Amiga. I have played thousands of PAL games on my NTSC Amigas since 1980s.
How were PAL compatibility with USA monitors in the 80/90's ?
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When using the arcade fpga board with a DVI to HDMI adapter, to a modern PAL TV, will the game scrolling run smooth or the LCD locked at 60hz impose a problem? Unless PAL TVs are capable to switch to real 50hz when they get a 50hz input...
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How were PAL compatibility with USA monitors in the 80/90's ?
Compatbility was 100% since Commodore Business Machines cranked out millions of 1084S monitors, 1084, 1080, etc. This caused Magnavox and Sony and others to make copycat monitors with the exact same features. Real monitors are compatible with PAL and NTSC and other formats.
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When using the arcade fpga board with a DVI to HDMI adapter, to a modern PAL TV, will the game scrolling run smooth or the LCD locked at 60hz impose a problem? Unless PAL TVs are capable to switch to real 50hz when they get a 50hz input...
If you have a TV that is "locked at 60hz" then it is definitely not PAL.
PAL is locked at 50hz.
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If you have a TV that is "locked at 60hz" then it is definitely not PAL.
PAL is locked at 50hz.
Maybe I wasn't clear, probably to my own ignorance in the matter. My TV is a PAL Sony Bravia and supports both 50hz and 60hz content. Does this mean that 50hz content will feature silky smooth scrolling on my TV?
Btw, how good is the Amiga core at the moment? Do AGA games work fine? What about C64?
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All TVs will support PAL or NTSC at 50/60i which is the classic 'TV' over HDMI.
There is no problem outputting correct HDMI for these standards. What is a little tricky is getting the Amiga core to sync up without a frame delay - some shortcuts were taken with the original chipset.
We are working on the problem. As I said earlier, we may end up with 100% classic timing which is VGA to SKART/RGB monitor, and a slightly tweaked version for HDMI.
/MikeJ
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How does the problem to make the Amiga core to sync with the display look? what shortcuts has been taken?
And VGA isn't a standard timing for Amiga asfair?
@Everblue, I think I recall someone mentioning that certain inputs (esp VGA) won't support some resolutions that other inputs will.
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I'm lost on this thread, is this a FPGA Accelerator board being developed as a daughter board for classic OS? can someone explain please.. ;-)
No. It's not an accelerator board. It's a new Amiga 1200 compatible computer with a few improvements and software upgradability through the use of an FPGA. Also, it's a good sequel to the MiniMig computer.
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I'm tired of reading this thread and waiting. When will this be widely available and how much will it cost? When will places like amigakit have them or will that be never? I've been waiting to buy another 1200 or this. This looks better but WHEN?
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@above
I'm going to get a Minimig now and wait another year for them to work out the bugs for this one.
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@Haywirepc:
You can go THERE (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/10/TAK_FPGAARBOARD) or THERE (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/9/CONFVESAFPGA).
Prices include french VAT (which can be removed depending on your coutry) and we can send products all over the world.
You can also contact us through mail at contact@amedia-computer.com or laurent@amedia-computer.com
We accept paypal, credit card or bank transfert for informations ;)
And we have just also received a new stock of Minimig's boards and accessories :
- Complete Super Minimig V3 (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/9/ACF_MINIMIGCOMP),
- 4MB Minimig's board (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/10/ACU_MIN4MONOP),
- ARM Controller (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/10/ACU_MIN_ARM),
- Crystal case (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/11/ACU_MIN_CRYS),
- VGA to Scart cable (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/11/ACF_VGA2SCART).
Last thing : for informations, we have Mike's agreement for reselling his awesome board and on the product page, there is a link for a little video showing it in action :)
Thanks, Lionel 'Braver' and Laurent 'Faranheit'
Amedia Computer France (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com)
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@above
I'm going to get a Minimig now and wait another year for them to work out the bugs for this one.
I understand the frustration, it is taking a lot longer than I would like.
The hardware has been around for quite a while, getting it into volume production at a decent price is an interesting challenge, but having built nearly 200 boards now I think we have cracked this.
I am still working on production test, but I expect to close this today. Then we can start shipping both stock from here and then directly from the factory to the distributors.
The core support is pretty stable and has been with developers for a while. I need to fix a few things still with the Amiga core, but it is pretty solid. Once the code is rolled out then incremental fixes will occur rapidly.
First batch of boards is going out this week.
/MikeJ
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Hi Mike,
Any chance to get the core update for the "old" promoboard V1.0b users :-)
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Hi Mike,
Any chance to get the core update for the "old" promoboard V1.0b users :-)
Yes, all B and later boards are fully supported ...
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The FPGA Arcade is shaping up to be a brilliant product Mike, many thanks for all your hard work and effort. I Look very much forward to buying at least one board, and hope the Daughterboard will make it into production too.
Is it likely that there will be a UK Reseller for the FPGA Arcade?
Robert.
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@mikej
This board looks amazing, where can you get them in the USA?
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International shipping ought to make it available anywhere?
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having built nearly 200 boards now
Just for ****s'n'giggles, what is your very best wild shot at the interest for the board?
1000 from Amiga side? 500?
What can you see from arcade and other machines interest?
Do you have connections with the press to get reviews and get the word Out There? (Retro Gamer in particular.)
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It is true that shipping will make it available almost anywhere, however I would prefer to order from and support my local Amiga dealer if it's possible to do so :)
Robert.
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I'd like to order from anywhere that I can see that it's available, place an order and have the expectation that it will be delivered or told it's out of stock.
The whole "if you've ever emailed me, you're in the queue" doesn't inspire confidence. It might as well be vaporware as far as end users are concerned.
Not a slam on the accomplishment, but it's a frustrating experience.
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I'd like to order from anywhere that I can see that it's available, place an order and have the expectation that it will be delivered or told it's out of stock.
The whole "if you've ever emailed me, you're in the queue" doesn't inspire confidence. It might as well be vaporware as far as end users are concerned.
Not a slam on the accomplishment, but it's a frustrating experience.
He is a 1 man company with no profit. You can't expect a smiling supermodel bikini girl to serve you your order in such a situation as this. :pint:
He's in "engineering mode" right now. Eventually he will switch to marketing mode for a bit and you will become happier. :)
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@ChaosLord
We could expect a smiling supermodel bikini girl to serve us our order, we just won't get it.
:)
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It is true that shipping will make it available almost anywhere, however I would prefer to order from and support my local Amiga dealer if it's possible to do so :)
Robert.
Famous Amiga Businessman Jim Drew said he was interested in ordering a big pile of Replays to America for us if he saw that enuff ppl wanted one.
From what I can see in this thread from the last few days there are at least 4 of us that we know of right now. Which means there are another 100 we don't know of.
But some of those might buy direct from MikeJ.
I think MikeJ and JimDrew should seriously consider if they are going to do a bulk deal thing or not. Weigh the advantages and disadvantages and decide what you guys are doing before everyone buys their Replay one at a time from Sweden.
If anyone can think of any advantages/disadvantages I would be interested to hear them.
I don't personally care where I get my Replay from as long as I get one. But being a capitalist, I would like to get it the most efficient way possible: that means avoiding as much shipping costs as possible and avoiding as much tax as possible. Whichever way that is.
One advantage from Mike's perspective could be that if he sold 50 Replays in bulk to Laurent in France and 50 in bulk to JimDrew and 50 in bulk to AmigaKit then he only has to deal with 3 customers instead of 150. This way Mike could concentrate more on engineering issues and fixing any reported bugs instead of having to do endless amounts of sales support.
Ok I will stop rambling now :)
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@ChaosLord
We could expect a smiling supermodel bikini girl to serve us our order, we just won't get it.
:)
Actually, he is from Sweden so we should expect the entire Swedish Bikini Team to hand deliver each of our orders. :D
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He is a 1 man company with no profit. You can't expect a smiling supermodel bikini girl to serve you your order in such a situation as this. :pint:
He's in "engineering mode" right now. Eventually he will switch to marketing mode for a bit and you will become happier. :)
I totally understand, but that doesn't make the current experience any more pleasant.
If distributors can fix that problem without jacking up the price too much, then I'm all for it.
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I totally understand, but that doesn't make the current experience any more pleasant.
If distributors can fix that problem without jacking up the price too much, then I'm all for it.
hmmm good point. When I worked at computer stores, the distributors added 15% to 20% to the price when selling to the retailer then the retailer added 40% more to the price.
You have now suddenly convinced me that the "email directly to the mad scientist laboratory" is a really good method :)
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I totally understand, but that doesn't make the current experience any more pleasant.
If distributors can fix that problem without jacking up the price too much, then I'm all for it.
As you know Laurent is reselling boards, I am in discussing with Jim for the US market and one other obvious big player in Europe. If we get production test sorted out, we can ship in bulk to the distributors direct from the factory. This will enable the distis to make sufficient margin to support the product.
Everybody who has mailed me will receive an offer asap. I will back out of direct sales once the stock here is tested and shipped.
Best,
MikeJ
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@Everblue, I think I recall someone mentioning that certain inputs (esp VGA) won't support some resolutions that other inputs will.
A lot of TV's only list certain supported resolutions, however they can be made to display other resolutions if the timings are right.
1920x1080 is not listed for VGA on any of the Toshiba TV's that I've used but if you tell Windows that you're outputting to a Standard 1080p TV then it works fine.
The only shortcut I knew of in the Amiga chipset was that they ended up with non square pixels because of how they generated the pixel clock from the 28mhz clock.
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Just for the record, here's another US buyer that would prefer to buy it "locally."
I'm interested in a turn key solution with case, power supply, etc that has the daughter boards taken into consideration(ie so it fits, connector slots available) for easy upgrade.
I would be interested to know how large the whole pool of potential buyers is. Is it 1000 units? More? Sounds like there's been big money invested, so I just hope that it pays huge dividends......just not sure how that math could work, unless the markup of the hardware is huge. Of course, there's R&D costs and lots of time to pay for, but it would be interesting to do a component-cost vs sale price and find the break-even point for mike and friends. (I'm sure they've done this math 23948 times)
I really can't imagine the market being bigger, than, say a few thousand units especially at a price point of 300 euros +/-. Guess that's a lot of money.
Not complaining, but I emailed mike years ago, and I haven't seen a single reply......maybe I'm far down the list, but whatever.
thanks
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Mike is the distributor. 100 boards for Amikit. 100 boards for Acube etc.
I remember in the Escom days. Amiga equipment use to go from the China factory to the UK. Australian retailers would then buy it from the UK. With the extra shipping we would end up paying nearly 2x the price.
If a third of the cost is postage, I think that will put a lot of people off buying it.
I can accept $50 for shipping. $60 if I get one from UK.
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Not complaining, but I emailed mike years ago, and I haven't seen a single reply......maybe I'm far down the list, but whatever.
You and me both man. I did get a reply however, stating that he had received the email and that I was on the list. This is now a few years back, and I'm sure I'm still on the list. As someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, MikeJ is in "devmode" and doing the best bugkilling a man can do (from what I've heard elsewhere, he's a perfectionist and never does anything half-hearted)
I do, however, also have a devboard with one of the first cores and even though it is unstable as "#$"#$"# ... The buildquality and general "look" of the board is utterly amazing. I am willing to wait for a new version of the board and pay the amount of money needed to get a board for myself (the devboard is on temporary loan :)
TL;DR: We have waited years and years for this board. Surely we can wait a few more (yes, I probably said the same thing about the AAA chipset back in '93-'94, but the point still stands :)
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Just finished CommVEx here in Las Vegas. Although it is primarily a C64/128 based event, there were a surprising number of Amiga enthusiasts here too! In fact, I met a guy who I sold my CD-32 SX-1 to in Portland, OR about 25 years ago! He apparently has an early FPGA Arcade prototype too. Amiga One, X1000, etc. machines were in attendance. I had never seen one of the non-WarpOS PPC setups before.
There was a big interest in the FPGA Arcade. A C64 core is a definite must for the list of cores. The more cores available, the more reasonable in price this device will effectively be!
As Mike stated, we have been in talks about distribution. I have committed to become the U.S. distributor for his products. I also want to help support development efforts as well.
The reality is that the final touches are being made so that the release can actually occur. Sometimes the end games goes well, and sometimes it doesn't. Mike is taking the correct approach and making it right from the beginning instead of something that could potentially need to be returned for mods, or need endless patches. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression, so please understand Mike's position.
If you are a U.S. customer and want a FPGA Arcade, AND you are not already on Mike's list, please PM me that you are interested. I am building a list right now, and have started with several people who attended CommVEx. Thanks!
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Hi all ;)
As Mike said it, here, at Amedia Computer France (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com), we are an official distributor for his board, accessories and complete configurations (case can be changed in order to suit your desire), as well as for other Amiga products.
We have made a special effort for translating our website in english for non french users and we can provide products all around the world with Fedex or French post for example.
We do NOT ONLY provide these wonderful boards and accessories to french people, we have yet many customers from all Europe, Canada, North Korea .... ;)
So, if you want to pre-order this product or any other Amiga product you see on our website, don't hesitate and send us a mail at contact@amedia-computer.com (contact@amedia-computer.com) or laurent@amedia-computer.com (laurent@amedia-computer.com), we answer in the day maximum, even in the 2 following hours in general ;)
Thanks in advance, Lionel 'Braver' and Laurent 'Faranheit'
Amedia Computer France (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com)
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@mikej Will we get the option to buy a backplate for the arcadefpga? Thanks!
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@Everblue :
HERE for example (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/11/TAK_BACKPANEL) ;)
Thanks, Lionel 'Braver' et Laurent 'Faranheit'
Amedia Computer France (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com)
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Yup like that.
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I doubt I am the only person who feels a little uncomfortable with resellers plugging away every few posts how they will be offering the boards. We ALL know this.
I know you guys do help with answering some posts but are the "product placement" ads quite necessary ;-)
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Yeah he does go a bit overboard but he is supporting the Amiga :p
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@Everblue : Thanks ;)
Thanks, Lionel 'Braver' et Laurent 'Faranheit'
Amedia Computer France (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com)
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Have people started getting their boards yet?
I haven't heard anything yet.
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Have people started getting their boards yet?
I haven't heard anything yet.
I've shipped a couple to developers, still testing the main batch. I only received the spare regulators end of last week, so still working through fitting.
I'm moving flat this week which is a bit of an issue, but I'm still hoping to get a number out this week.
/Mike
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Has everyone 'on the list' been notified at this point for purchase?
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Has everyone 'on the list' been notified at this point for purchase?
no, just starting to work though it, as boards are tested.
/MikeJ
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core
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core
What about the core?
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What about the core?
Exactly.
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I am happy to wait for expansion board availability before buying a fpga ARCADE board.
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What about the core?
(http://paulboylan.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/core_the_01.jpg)
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Nobody should doubt that the boards and core exist. I received the FPGA Arcade, back plate, and developer breakout board today. Woot!
Getting a lot of nice pictures of the board shot today for the website.
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@PsxPhill
LOL. I think the FPGA Arcade was a million times more exciting than that movie. :)
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Nobody should doubt that the boards and core exist. I received the FPGA Arcade, back plate, and developer breakout board today. Woot!
Getting a lot of nice pictures of the board shot today for the website.
Did you get the old core or the new one with RTG?
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I am not at liberty to discuss anything about the core. FPGA Arcade is Mike's product, so he is the one that should address everything. I was just reporting that it all in fact exists. :)
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I am not at liberty to discuss anything about the core. FPGA Arcade is Mike's product, so he is the one that should address everything. I was just reporting that it all in fact exists. :)
I know... I've had one for nearly 2 years. :D
I'd just like to see an update before I get back home in 2 weeks. The Chameleon64 spoils me. I seem to get updates every other week for that.
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You run Chameleon64 on the FPGA Replay?
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You run Chameleon64 on the FPGA Replay?
No, I have one of them on a C64C. I have I'm referring to C64 and Minimig core updates for that which come quite frequently.
I must admit it is funny to see the faces on people when I show them Workbench running on a C64. :D
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C64 and Amiga on a single machine will be awesome. Something else which I would love to have is the PC Engine, what are the chances of getting one?
By the way, not sure if this has been asked, can you connect RGB/Scart to Arcade FPGA? I have a CRT and I guess it would look nicer on it than on a 40" LED TV.
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I know... I've had one for nearly 2 years. :D
I'd just like to see an update before I get back home in 2 weeks. The Chameleon64 spoils me. I seem to get updates every other week for that.
I am busy moving flat this week - absolute chaos.
However, Wolfgang has taken the beta libraries and ported Phoenix game to test the menu system and libs.
Should be able to work on the Amiga core again Monday.
/MikeJ
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Phoenix I love that game, played it a lot in the Arcades back then, super news.
Kamelito
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@mikej, Got first hand lease or are you stuck in the moving circus in the town?
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I am busy moving flat this week - absolute chaos.
However, Wolfgang has taken the beta libraries and ported Phoenix game to test the menu system and libs.
Should be able to work on the Amiga core again Monday.
/MikeJ
Cheers Mike. I know what it is like as I recently moved into my new house. I've still got stuff in the old one that I need to go back for. My "computer room" is stacked high with boxes and one of them contains my FPGA Arcade. I just hope I can find it when my X500 case arrives.
Phoenix? Phoenix? Did I ever mention that along with Defender, Pheonix is may all time favourite arcade game!!!
Drool!!!
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C64 and Amiga on a single machine will be awesome. Something else which I would love to have is the PC Engine, what are the chances of getting one?
By the way, not sure if this has been asked, can you connect RGB/Scart to Arcade FPGA? I have a CRT and I guess it would look nicer on it than on a 40" LED TV.
No love for my questions :p
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No love for my questions :p
I'm in America. When it comes to questions on SCART, the answer is "What's SCART?" (OK, I know cause I'm a Brit). :p
If you want to use a CRT monitor, just connect a VGA cable. If you have an old CRT TV with no VGA input, but you have SCART then just use an adapter:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JS-COMPONENT-YUV-TO-RGB-SCART-VGA-CONVERTER-/271255698459
A cheaper option would be to connect it to a TV using COMPONENT or S-VIDEO.
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America has the "component video" (YUV) via RCA plugs instead of SCART asfaik.
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@mikej, Got first hand lease or are you stuck in the moving circus in the town?
Oh it's a long story. Bought a new flat last year but a lot of problems with it, so swapping it for a different building, same company. Utter pain....
/MikeJ
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C64 and Amiga on a single machine will be awesome. Something else which I would love to have is the PC Engine, what are the chances of getting one?
By the way, not sure if this has been asked, can you connect RGB/Scart to Arcade FPGA? I have a CRT and I guess it would look nicer on it than on a 40" LED TV.
Yes, when it is in "15K" mode the default video phy sticks out composite sync and I use a DVI analogue to Scart - you could wire up to 9 pin D or any other analog standard you wish.
You could also use the DVI to VGA for the higher resolutions modes.
/MikeJ
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Cheers Mike. I know what it is like as I recently moved into my new house. I've still got stuff in the old one that I need to go back for. My "computer room" is stacked high with boxes and one of them contains my FPGA Arcade. I just hope I can find it when my X500 case arrives.
Phoenix? Phoenix? Did I ever mention that along with Defender, Pheonix is may all time favourite arcade game!!!
Drool!!!
I'll check with Wolfgang but I think he is happy for me to post the core. It's really a test that the libraries etc can be used by 3rd party devs. You will need to flash to the new boot loader and menu system. This means the old amiga core will no longer work, and you will pester me every day for the new one - which is fine with me ;)
I'll post details asap.
/MikeJ
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I'll check with Wolfgang but I think he is happy for me to post the core. It's really a test that the libraries etc can be used by 3rd party devs. You will need to flash to the new boot loader and menu system. This means the old amiga core will no longer work, and you will pester me every day for the new one - which is fine with me ;)
I'll post details asap.
/MikeJ
LOL. Thanks Mike, I'd love to get my hands on Pheonix.
I might need to buy a second FPGA Arcade then. ;)
I take it that reflashing to the new boot loader is done via a file on the SD Card?
One of the great selling points to me of the FPGA Arcade will be (with the new bootloader and new core) the ability to select at boot time which core (Amiga, arcade game, other system) you wish to run. This is a nice feature on the Chameleon64 which I currently have configures to boot into a C64, ECS Amiga or ZX Spectrum.
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LOL. Thanks Mike, I'd love to get my hands on Pheonix.
I might need to buy a second FPGA Arcade then. ;)
I take it that reflashing to the new boot loader is done via a file on the SD Card?
One of the great selling points to me of the FPGA Arcade will be (with the new bootloader and new core) the ability to select at boot time which core (Amiga, arcade game, other system) you wish to run. This is a nice feature on the Chameleon64 which I currently have configures to boot into a C64, ECS Amiga or ZX Spectrum.
No, it requires a USB cable to be connected to the micro-usb connector and some software run on a PC. It's pretty easy, I'm drafting some instructions now.
It's also very safe as the ARM has a default usb loader you can restore by shorting a link on the board.
/MikeJ
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No, it requires a USB cable to be connected to the micro-usb connector and some software run on a PC. It's pretty easy, I'm drafting some instructions now.
It's also very safe as the ARM has a default usb loader you can restore by shorting a link on the board.
/MikeJ
Ah, OK. Sounds similar to what I have to do with the Chameleon64 when I update that. I use a USB cable between the cartridge and the PC and then use a program called Chaco to flash it. Pretty painless as long as you do everything in the right order.
A step-by-step guide will certainly be useful.
It can't be any worse than the old Minimig fun and games with the serial cable. ;)
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No, it requires a USB cable to be connected to the micro-usb connector and some software run on a PC. It's pretty easy, I'm drafting some instructions now.
It's also very safe as the ARM has a default usb loader you can restore by shorting a link on the board.
/MikeJ
By PC you mean also Mac or Linux or does it require windows?
Kamelito
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Geez Mike... if you get Stargate ported to the FPGA Arcade I will throw away all of my gaming equipment and build a cabinet!
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If your looking for a good version of Stargate for a cabinet, look no further...
http://www.jrok.com/hardware/wsf/
Haven't put it in a cabinet yet since I have Stargate, Robotron, Defender, Joust & Joust II upright cabinets to hold me over.
David
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Geez Mike... if you get Stargate ported to the FPGA Arcade I will throw away all of my gaming equipment and build a cabinet!
Rather than building a cabinet that has a non standard control scheme to put an FPGA arcade in, why not just get a real stargate cabinet?
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By PC you mean also Mac or Linux or does it require windows?
Kamelito
We use a program called BOSSA
https://github.com/shumatech/BOSSA
to flash the ARM with the bootloader. This is only done once, usually before shipping. Older boards will need to be updated.
I haven't tried doing this under Linux/Mac OS, but the git repository indicates it is possible.
If you can't get hold of a windows machine, you can always return the board to me for update.
/MikeJ
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Geez Mike... if you get Stargate ported to the FPGA Arcade I will throw away all of my gaming equipment and build a cabinet!
It is runs on pretty much Defender hardware? No problem...
/MikeJ
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It is runs on pretty much Defender hardware? No problem...
The hardware is similar but the memory map is quite different.
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32GB MicroSDHC Flash Memory cards are $21.00 at Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Mobile-microSDHC-Memory-SDSDQ-032G-AFFP/dp/B007KFXIDE/ref=br_lf_m_1001215471_1_3_ttl?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&s=electronics&pf_rd_p=1569175842&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_i=1001215471&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1YMKDKTAFVKWZHJWJVV6 (http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Mobile-microSDHC-Memory-SDSDQ-032G-AFFP/dp/B007KFXIDE/ref=br_lf_m_1001215471_1_3_ttl?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&s=electronics&pf_rd_p=1569175842&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_i=1001215471&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1YMKDKTAFVKWZHJWJVV6)
I can't remember if it is the Replay that uses these or the 060 Accelerator card but its one or the other for sure.
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I think I recall some SDHC timing issues with FPGA Replay.
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I consider purchasing a FPGA card for my A1200 but only if the speed is like winuae+JIT enabled (around 2400 mips)
also the card must have 3D GFX card,USB ,WIFI,scandoubler etc
otherwise I pass
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I consider purchasing a FPGA card for my A1200 but only if the speed is like winuae+JIT enabled (around 2400 mips)
also the card must have 3D GFX card,USB ,WIFI,scandoubler etc
otherwise I pass
what about GDDR5 and SATA3?
I don't think you are being realistic...
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Hi ;)
We use a 32GB SDHC Card for more than 1,5 year on the FPGA Arcade board, and there is no problem with it.
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
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I consider purchasing a FPGA card for my A1200 but only if the speed is like winuae+JIT enabled (around 2400 mips)
also the card must have 3D GFX card,USB ,WIFI,scandoubler etc
otherwise I pass
Was that a complaint about price? He doesn't like the FPGA?
WinUAE can do Amiga things, but you cannot turn it into an Amiga computer.
I plan do personalise my FPGA to make it as 'classic' as possible. It will seem like the next Amiga after the 1200.
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I consider purchasing a FPGA card for my A1200 but only if the speed is like winuae+JIT enabled (around 2400 mips)
also the card must have 3D GFX card,USB ,WIFI,scandoubler etc
otherwise I pass
You shouldn't consider buying one then.
WinUAE sounds perfect for what you want.
WinUAE can do Amiga things, but you cannot turn it into an Amiga computer.
Sure you can, it's just a different way. Both ways have pro's and con's.
A1200 has IDE and can have SCSI/Zorro/ISA/PCI slots added. FPGA Arcade has nothing like that, WinUAE can make a lot of pc hardware available to the emulated Amiga. I eventually expect WinUAE to support PPC emulation as well.
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FPGA Arcade has nothing like that
...yet... but the expansion slot is fully capable of all of these things. SCSI is of particular importance to me.
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USB-SCSI dongle and you are set ;)
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...yet... but the expansion slot is fully capable of all of these things. SCSI is of particular importance to me.
How did it go with your arcade fpga? I'd love to see some video of it tinning a few games :)
The waiting for the board is Killing me
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How did it go with your arcade fpga? I'd love to see some video of it tinning a few games :)
The waiting for the board is Killing me
Wolfgang has some pictures of Phoenix here ...
http://pin4.at/pro_arcade_phoenix.php
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Wolfgang has some pictures of Phoenix here ...
http://pin4.at/pro_arcade_phoenix.php
Cheers for that link. I see I'm going to need to make a modification to my monitor stand so that I can rotate it 90 degrees. :)
Any idea what he uses for the control buttons? Joytick and keyboard or custom adapter?
I also noticed that he wants to port the following games:
Galaga
Popeye
Dig Dug
Crazy Kong
Super Pacman
Frogger
Xevious
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Yeah all the games I did are being converted.
I've also got vic c64 spectrum bbcb st etc on the go.
Please dont harass Wolfgang for the image yet. ..
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Is Phoenix = Arcade FPGA?? /scratches head.
Is a game like Toki doable on Arcade FPGA? Sorry if the question is stupid, I am just an end user :)
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Sweet all golden oldies from the 80"s
Nice to have a c64 and a speccy at some point..
Let the games begin ... ;-)
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...yet... but the expansion slot is fully capable of all of these things. SCSI is of particular importance to me.
I'd rather see SATA than SCSI support, at least you can still buy the hardware for a reasonable price. The command sets have become mostly common now to the point where Windows often refers to SATA devices as SCSI. The speed would truly be remarkable.
Adding SCSI-I is probably cheaper though, you could do a SCSI controller in the FPGA and run out some I/O to a connector on the board. You could do the same for a cheap ass IDE implementation as well (like commodore did).
The problem of course is going to be coming up with a one size fits all board. Realistically it's unlikely there will be more than one expansion board designed and manufactured & my guess is you're going to want mike's board with the full 68060 and extra ram and ethernet.
Adding an CD/DVD drive could probably be done using USB, but that is probably harder than adding SATA. I'm especially thinking about games consoles where you won't have a USB stack and the extra latency of emulating direct access would probably kill it (i.e. you're reintroducing the same problems that Windows has).
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Btw how is the c64 core coming up?
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You could do a SCSI-II controller in the FPGA (plenty of gates left), but I happen to have about 2000 53C80 chips sitting here to give me SCSI. SCSI is exclusively used by the Mac, and for the Mac emulation I will need SCSI support to access things like Syquest drives, CD-ROM drives, tape drives, etc.. all of the same stuff that is plugged into my A3000.
The way Mike setup the menu system and such is really nice. It makes it easy to just load a new core on the SD card, update a .ini file and presto, new game or emulation is available. This is the way it should be done!
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Wolfgang has some pictures of Phoenix here ...
http://pin4.at/pro_arcade_phoenix.php
How come his 8085 design uses so much FPGA resources?
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This is from his website:
Due to the implementation of the "analogue" sound section, it barely fits to small 500E boards (100% utilization) and I don't have the external flash feature implemented yet.
It has some possibility for a "low HW cost" sound implementation - but you do not really want that, do you...?
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Gah.. missed that. Seems mystery is solved.
The Amiga in FPGA poses a somewhat similar problem when used with S/P-DIF or HDMI-audio (digital sound). As the Amiga sampling frequency may vary significantly but the output will not. A constant difference in frequency of course add another frequency, then there's aliasing etc.
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As the Amiga sampling frequency may vary significantly but the output will not. A constant difference in frequency of course add another frequency, then there's aliasing etc.
I don't believe the Amiga sample rate does vary, all samples appear to be output relative to the colour clock.
http://blog.kebby.org/?p=11
http://eab.abime.net/coders-general/63227-low-level-workings-paula.html
3.58mhz is a little high to be outputting though. The Amiga will put that through some form of filter, even when the low pass filter is off.
From what I can tell the 2 bytes in the AUDxDAT register get output alternatively for 64 clocks, the audio changes when another 2 samples are loaded (either via dma or cpu). Which kinda sounds like it would cause a lot of noise artifacting, but apparently not (although paula does sound a bit crunchy at times).
You could do a SCSI-II controller in the FPGA (plenty of gates left), but I happen to have about 2000 53C80 chips sitting here to give me SCSI. SCSI is exclusively used by the Mac, and for the Mac emulation I will need SCSI support to access things like Syquest drives, CD-ROM drives, tape drives, etc.. all of the same stuff that is plugged into my A3000.
I would hope the Mac emulation will work without any real SCSI peripherals though, at that point you probably don't want to use a real 53C80 as you'd be limited to only having real peripherals or only having emulated ones. If you emulate the 53C80 then you can have a mixture of real and virtual peripherals, plus it would be nice if you could use the same interface for emulating any machine with SCSI whatever controller chip it uses.
Of course you can go ahead and make your own expansion board with a 53C80 if you like, but it is likely it will have a very small audience as everyone is likely to want the board with the real 68060 and the people who need an emulated SCSI controller chip will have to effectively redo the same work. While if we could persuade mike to just throw on some SCSI/IDE connectors (or even space for them) then it would meet everyone's needs (except your manufactured need of finding somewhere to put these 53C80 chips).
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I've been looking at the game Minimig compatibility list here:
http://www.opencircuits.com/Minimig_Software_compatibility
Would this be valid for Arcade FPGA or by now the core would have been fixed to make more games work?
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@EverBlue: that list is terribly outdated!
On the Minimig V1.1 board, it's very VERY hard to find a single game that doesn't work these days. Boing4000, Mmrobinsonb5, Chaos... these guys at the minimig.net forum have fixed most incompatibilities by now. I think the only game that doesn't behave as intended is some obscure Asterix game because it uses the mouse in a strange way.
I have hundreds of Amiga games on the Minimig V1.1 board (Whdload versions, who cares about slow ADFs anymore??) and they all work.
I'd say compatibility is more or less the same on the DE1 board (TG68 68000 softcore) if you use Chaos's latest testing core, but I haven't tested it so hard as the Minimig V1.1, wich is my main Amiga these days.
I believe MikeJ incorporates every Chaos's CPU fix to the unreleased new core, so we can expect a similar compatibility. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mike.
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I assume arcade fpga = DE 1?
The arcade fpga is the reason I haven't bought a minimig with an arm controller, due to AGA compatibility and DVI (if it had HDMI would have been perfect). Hoping they are shipped out soon.
Just curious is there a working c64 core for the Minimig?
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(if it had HDMI would have been perfect).
Unfortunately HDMI is expensive to add. The video is easy to convert from DVI-D to HDMI as it's just the connector, but getting the audio in the correct format is not as simple. However a lot of DVI connectors on PC graphics cards include HDMI compatible audio as well, ATI seem to just put the interleaved video and audioover DVI-D.
http://www.mcscom.co.uk/live/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=22510
"With the correct hardware this adapter allows you to transmit high-definition digital audio from your PC using a single HDMI cable. Generic DVI-HDMI adapters do not support this function and only transmit the video signal."
What I don't know is what stops the standard cable from working, whether it's just a case of the graphics card detecting the special ATI dongle.
I believe NVidia also have an adapter, but they use a different method that involves SPDIF and are supposedly less compatible. I can't find a technical description of how that works either.
People selling adapters don't help http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Replacement-DVI-Male-to-HDMI-Female-Audio-Plug-Adapter-/390611645116?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item5af244b2bc
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I've been looking at the game Minimig compatibility list here:
http://www.opencircuits.com/Minimig_Software_compatibility
Would this be valid for Arcade FPGA or by now the core would have been fixed to make more games work?
If you look at the core used for most of the testing (080408) you can see that the list was done back in August 2008. There have been a lot of updates since then.
I started to make a new list using the Minimig, Chameleon and FPGA Arcade, but I stopped because I was waiting for the new FPGA Arcade core. Once I have it (and some spare time) I'll start again.
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What about one of these (expensive) adapters?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/StarTech-com-DVI-to-HDMI-Video-Converter-with-Audio-Video-converter-black-/380549230284?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item589a806ecc
Unfortunately HDMI is expensive to add. The video is easy to convert from DVI-D to HDMI as it's just the connector, but getting the audio in the correct format is not as simple. However a lot of DVI connectors on PC graphics cards include HDMI compatible audio as well, ATI seem to just put the interleaved video and audioover DVI-D.
http://www.mcscom.co.uk/live/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=22510
"With the correct hardware this adapter allows you to transmit high-definition digital audio from your PC using a single HDMI cable. Generic DVI-HDMI adapters do not support this function and only transmit the video signal."
What I don't know is what stops the standard cable from working, whether it's just a case of the graphics card detecting the special ATI dongle.
I believe NVidia also have an adapter, but they use a different method that involves SPDIF and are supposedly less compatible. I can't find a technical description of how that works either.
People selling adapters don't help http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Replacement-DVI-Male-to-HDMI-Female-Audio-Plug-Adapter-/390611645116?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item5af244b2bc
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If you look at the core used for most of the testing (080408) you can see that the list was done back in August 2008. There have been a lot of updates since then.
I started to make a new list using the Minimig, Chameleon and FPGA Arcade, but I stopped because I was waiting for the new FPGA Arcade core. Once I have it (and some spare time) I'll start again.
Thanks!
I wasn't aware the list is so out of date. Great so see most if not all games work. Can someone lend me a minimig until I receive my Arcade FPGA :P
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Re:HDMI vs. DVI
Full HDMI have more than just audio added into the standard. DVI is unencrypted video while full HDMI is encrypted to disallow people from just recording lossless video onto a BluRay burner. The licensing and associated circuitry for HDMI make it undesirable for hobby projects since they would never be able to successfully defray the costs of adding the encryption circuits as opposed to high-volume retailers which are more worried about the outputs being used to pirate video outputs.
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Re:HDMI vs. DVI
Full HDMI have more than just audio added into the standard. DVI is unencrypted video while full HDMI is encrypted to disallow people from just recording lossless video onto a BluRay burner. The licensing and associated circuitry for HDMI make it undesirable for hobby projects since they would never be able to successfully defray the costs of adding the encryption circuits as opposed to high-volume retailers which are more worried about the outputs being used to pirate video outputs.
Hmmm doesn't the raspberry pi come with HDMI?
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Full HDMI have more than just audio added into the standard. DVI is unencrypted video while full HDMI is encrypted to disallow people from just recording lossless video onto a BluRay burner.
I think you're talking about HDCP, which can also be used with DVI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection
You don't have to have HDCP for HDMI though, it's just that bluray software on windows will check to make sure it's being used. If no software checks that HDCP is enabled then it doesn't matter if it is or not. Some computer monitors don't support it, the only thing you can't do with those is play bluray movies (unless they also support VGA and you have a VGA output).
Hmmm doesn't the raspberry pi come with HDMI?
They probably paid the HDMI license fee. The chipset in the raspberry pi supports HDCP, but it's not ever enabled. HDCP only really works with closed source software, on windows the bluray software also makes sure the drivers are WHQL signed so you can't hack the driver to disable HDCP but tell the bluray software that it's enabled. It's unlikely anyone will ever run closed source bluray player software on a Raspberry Pi or an FPGA Arcade, so HDCP is not a concern.
What about one of these (expensive) adapters?
[URL]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/StarTech-com-DVI-to-HDMI-Video-Converter-with-Audio-Video-converter-black-/380549230284?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item589a806ecc (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/StarTech-com-DVI-to-HDMI-Video-Converter-with-Audio-Video-converter-black-/380549230284?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item589a806ecc)[/COLOR][/URL]
Yeah the expensive adapters will work, but at that price it would be cheaper for mike to pay the HDMI licensing cost.
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I think you're talking about HDCP, which can also be used with DVI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection
You don't have to have HDCP for HDMI though, it's just that bluray software on windows will check to make sure it's being used. If no software checks that HDCP is enabled then it doesn't matter if it is or not. Some computer monitors don't support it, the only thing you can't do with those is play bluray movies (unless they also support VGA and you have a VGA output).
They probably paid the HDMI license fee. The chipset in the raspberry pi supports HDCP, but it's not ever enabled. HDCP only really works with closed source software, on windows the bluray software also makes sure the drivers are WHQL signed so you can't hack the driver to disable HDCP but tell the bluray software that it's enabled. It's unlikely anyone will ever run closed source bluray player software on a Raspberry Pi or an FPGA Arcade, so HDCP is not a concern.
Yeah the expensive adapters will work, but at that price it would be cheaper for mike to pay the HDMI licensing cost.
I agree :P
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I am thinking about an add-on SCSI interface, either software driven through the FPGA or using a real 53C80. Everything for the Mac is SCSI based for external peripherals, so having SCSI is not an option for Mac emulation.
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The HDMI mode that allow HDMI+audio uses a different line coding. So the existing HDMI encoder chip on the FPGA Arcade can't be configured to enable audio. And the FPGA is too slow to make it happen.
But some of Xilinx newer versions has faster I/O so if the next version drives the "DVI" output directly from the FPGA without any encoder chip. A pure mechanical DVI-2-HDMI adapter and a core update is all that is needed to make use of HDMI audio.
As for HDCP, it has been "solved" for a few years.
So current incarnation can't fix this but newer Xilinx chips can solve the whole issue. And direct SATA connection can be done with the same I/O.
To stay within the licensing rules. There may not be any HDMI encoder chip and there may not even be a HDMI connector on the PCB. Not even pads for it (the last one asfair).
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The FPGA Arcade requires a micro-USB cable to update the ARM firmware. So, if you don't have one, go get one! I need to try to find a DB9 female to female cable for my Amiga monitor so that I could test some things. These are not exactly readily available anymore like they use to be!
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I am thinking about an add-on SCSI interface, either software driven through the FPGA or using a real 53C80. Everything for the Mac is SCSI based for external peripherals, so having SCSI is not an option for Mac emulation.
If you have a particular SCSI device you want to connect to it then you need SCSI connector (or at least a SCSI to USB/SATA/whatever converter), but whether that is for a mac emulator or you want to emulate an A1200 and hook it up as an IDE drive should be irrelevant. If the FPGA replay supported ATA/SATA then there should be no problem making devices connected to it appear to the emulated mac as a SCSI peripheral connected to a 53C80.
You shouldn't need a different expansion board and set of peripherals just because you want to emulate a mac or amiga or st etc. The idea is you can emulate a mac one minute and a cd32 the next, if you want to use real CD's on either then you shouldn't have to plug a different drive in. It would be terrible if trying to emulate an ST with an external drive required a new external board and an ACSI drive.
The majority of course will want to just emulate without any real peripherals and have them all virtualised from images on their SD card anyway, CD drives are likely to be the only real device most people would want to use. The majority would want to use a hard drive to store more images, not actually use the hard drive direct (although both options should be allowed).
The HDMI mode that allow HDMI+audio uses a different line coding. So the existing HDMI encoder chip on the FPGA Arcade can't be configured to enable audio.
That is a shame, those ATI DVI->HDMI converters would be a cheap way around the licensing issue if the hardware shipped as DVI but could be upgraded to generate DVI+audio later on by some unscrupulous individual.
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Also, the board uses a DB9 old school VGA connector for the VGA output.
Hmm, that's somewhat odd. Why not the more common kind ?
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Also, the board uses a DB9 old school VGA connector for the VGA output.
Both DB9 male ports are joystick connectors, not for VGA output.
VGA needs a DVI to VGA adapter.
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Both DB9 male ports are joystick connectors, not for VGA output.
VGA needs a DVI to VGA adapter.
I was wondering about that. My FPGA Arcade doesn't have a VGA port, just the DVI, S-video and Composite.
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Yep, my mistake... referring to a 15KHz DB9<>DB15<>DVI adapter. Some of the arcade games (like Phoenix) use a 61 Hz (yes, really) refresh so I am trying every monitor/adapter I own to see what will sync.
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Yep, my mistake... referring to a 15KHz DB9<>DB15<>DVI adapter. Some of the arcade games (like Phoenix) use a 61 Hz (yes, really) refresh so I am trying every monitor/adapter I own to see what will sync.
I thought you might have been given some early protype for a sec :D
I looked at the notes on the Pheonix refresh rate. I'll be interested to see how that will affect my monitor via the DVI-VGA cable I'm using.
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Yep, my mistake... referring to a 15KHz DB9<>DB15<>DVI adapter. Some of the arcade games (like Phoenix) use a 61 Hz (yes, really) refresh so I am trying every monitor/adapter I own to see what will sync.
Yeah arcade game refresh rates are all over the place because they had little to restrict them, they ended up with whatever came out easier in hardware.
Home computers were only better because they couldn't guarantee you'd be able to change h/v sync enough, but they generally weren't really NTSC/PAL compatible.
The mismatch between display refresh rate and the games refresh rate is a problem for emulation, in some ways it's better to change the actual speed of everything so the two match up. Although this means you need to pitch shift the audio, but this is much easier than trying to resample the video at a different refresh rate.
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I thought you might have been given some early protype for a sec :D
I looked at the notes on the Pheonix refresh rate. I'll be interested to see how that will affect my monitor via the DVI-VGA cable I'm using.
DVI->VGA appears to work just fine on any of my LCD monitors. DVI direct connection does not work with Phoenix. There is also a non scan-doubled mode (15KHz), so I was trying to connect a DVI->VGA->RGB converter board to see if an old Amiga monitor would work. I don't think its worth the effort at this point. :)
It seems that most games use a standard 60Hz refresh with VBI, so I don't think this is too common. You can look through the MAME info and see which games were non-standard.
I have to tell you, I am pretty excited about this board. Once I got everything setup correctly, it's pretty simple. I think a micro-ATX case is going to be mandatory. It spooks me a bit to have everything laying out on the counter, with test leads and such everywhere.
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DVI->VGA appears to work just fine on any of my LCD monitors. DVI direct connection does not work with Phoenix. There is also a non scan-doubled mode (15KHz), so I was trying to connect a DVI->VGA->RGB converter board to see if an old Amiga monitor would work. I don't think its worth the effort at this point. :)
It seems that most games use a standard 60Hz refresh with VBI, so I don't think this is too common. You can look through the MAME info and see which games were non-standard.
I have to tell you, I am pretty excited about this board. Once I got everything setup correctly, it's pretty simple. I think a micro-ATX case is going to be mandatory. It spooks me a bit to have everything laying out on the counter, with test leads and such everywhere.
Thanks, so the DVI-VGA connection I have "should" be good for Pheonix then? Just don't to DVI-DVI?
I've been using my FPGA Arcade uncased and just sat on a wooden desk since I had it. Hopefully my X500 case isn't going to be too much longer. :)
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Well, that is the case for the version of Phoenix I am testing. I am not sure how much it will change before it is officially released. I am just stunned to see this working. To me, it's more amazing than the Amiga core (only because I have seen Amiga cores before, never a FPGA based arcade machine emulation).
Mike has put together a pretty outstanding piece of hardware, and the software support and integration is really going to make this something that developers will want to pick up and support.
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To me, it's more amazing than the Amiga core (only because I have seen Amiga cores before, never a FPGA based arcade machine emulation).
This one has been out for a while.
http://arcade.gadgetfactory.net/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW-ybUw_Elk
This one is new... http://pipistrello.saanlima.com/index.php?title=Welcome_to_Pipistrello hdmi ftw (it can even sorta do 1080p http://hackaday.com/2013/03/08/pumping-1080p-video-out-of-an-fpga/)
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This one has been out for a while.
http://arcade.gadgetfactory.net/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW-ybUw_Elk
This one is new... http://pipistrello.saanlima.com/index.php?title=Welcome_to_Pipistrello hdmi ftw (it can even sorta do 1080p http://hackaday.com/2013/03/08/pumping-1080p-video-out-of-an-fpga/)
Did anyone ported Minimig cores to those FPGA boards? Are they compatible?
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This one has been out for a while.
http://arcade.gadgetfactory.net/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW-ybUw_Elk
This one is new... http://pipistrello.saanlima.com/index.php?title=Welcome_to_Pipistrello hdmi ftw (it can even sorta do 1080p http://hackaday.com/2013/03/08/pumping-1080p-video-out-of-an-fpga/)
Considering that the games for this device originally came from FPGA Arcade, there are no issues making these for the latest hardware. The gadgetfactory hardware uses the little Spartan 3 with only 500K gates. The Pro version uses a the S6. The FPGA Arcade hardware uses a FPGA chip that has 1.6M gates, it offsers a 30bit video DAC, audio chip, etc. .. way more hardware. In fact, the cost of the XC3S1600E Spartan FPGA chip itself is about double of what gadgetfactory is charging for their entire pro board! You get what you pay for... more gates means better functionality, giving you the ability to emulate much more complex systems. The FPGA Arcade is overkill if you are just wanting to play Pacman - but if you want to emulate an Amiga, Atari ST, etc. at a level never before possible due to gate constraints, the FPGA Arcade board is the way to go.
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For any serious Amiga implementation a XC3S1600E is more or less a minimum requirement. Or else one will be stuck with a slight incompatible 68000 without AGA/RTG.
Seems Pipistrello (http://pipistrello.saanlima.com/index.php?title=Welcome_to_Pipistrello) can handle HDMI directly with its Spartan-6 LX45 board for 150 USD. But the hackaday articlle hints that the picture is somewhat unstable?
Anyway it's the way past HDMI association ;)
(though the legality of a soldered HDMI connector is cloudy at best)
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For any serious Amiga implementation a XC3S1600E is more or less a minimum requirement. Or else one will be stuck with a slight incompatible 68000 without AGA/RTG.
Seems Pipistrello (http://pipistrello.saanlima.com/index.php?title=Welcome_to_Pipistrello) can handle HDMI directly with its Spartan-6 LX45 board for 150 USD. But the hackaday articlle hints that the picture is somewhat unstable?
Anyway it's the way past HDMI association ;)
(though the legality of a soldered HDMI connector is cloudy at best)
I really don't know how they get away with this. The HDMI connector cannot be used unless licensed. The boards are not CE/FCC certified either.
Looks like all the arcade game stuff is direct from my site as well.
At least they have published their changes and kept the license header, but it would be nice if they linked to fpgaarcade and were open about their sources ;)
Glad to see people are using the stuff though.
/MikeJ
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I really don't know how they get away with this. The HDMI connector cannot be used unless licensed.
Your statement is only true if the HDMI MAFIA sue the manufacturer and win the court case which requires them to persuade/threaten/bribe a judge and jury into accepting that slavery and extortion are part of civilized behavior.
The concept that the MAFIA can own all the connectors past, present and future, of the entire universe is ridiculously immoral, vile and evil.
I mean they claim to own WIRES. Wires! Wires have been around for centuries! How can you own wires that you didn't pay for? How can you own wires 1000 years in the future built by ppl who don't exist in your lifetime?
Its slavery. Slavery is wrong. Period.
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Its slavery. Slavery is wrong. Period.
Slavery is an euphemism for capitalism here, imho.
Capitalism is killing us all.
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Slavery is an euphemism for capitalism here, imho.
Capitalism is killing us all.
Without capitalism we wouldn't have computers.
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Without capitalism we wouldn't have computers.
That's NOT true. URSS wasn't capitalist (and I don't condone state communism) and they had computers.
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Your statement is only true if the HDMI MAFIA sue the manufacturer and win the court case which requires them to persuade/threaten/bribe a judge and jury into accepting that slavery and extortion are part of civilized behavior.
The concept that the MAFIA can own all the connectors past, present and future, of the entire universe is ridiculously immoral, vile and evil.
I mean they claim to own WIRES. Wires! Wires have been around for centuries! How can you own wires that you didn't pay for? How can you own wires 1000 years in the future built by ppl who don't exist in your lifetime?
Its slavery. Slavery is wrong. Period.
Not saying I agree with it for sure....
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/terms.aspx
That is why I use a DVI connector - which is open. Fortunately HDMI protocol is a superset of DVI, so an HDMI input will accept DVI.
There would be nothing to stop you running embedded audio and high resolution HDMI formats over the DVI connector of course, if the PHY supported it.
Directly connecting the FPGA has it's own issues with signal quality at higher resolutions, the IO is not really up to the job. Let's see what the new generation FPGAs can do.
/MikeJ
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The problem isn't capitalism, it's greed. There is also the welfare mentality, "I should have stuff for free".
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more gates means better functionality
Only within the same architecture, Spartan 6 & Spartan 3E are different architecture. The Spartan 6 LX45 seems to be just a little more expensive than the Spartan 3E with 1.6M gates, while the Spartan 6 has less gates it has more units.
I don't know enough about the different FPGA architectures to determine which is better.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/semiconductors/programmable-logic-circuits/fpgas/?sort-by=Number+of+Logic+Cells&sort-order=desc&view-type=List&applied-dimensions=4294511735,4294489143,4294489119,4294484685,4294508744,4294508738&lastAttributeSelectedBlock=4294958899&sort-option=Number+of+Logic+Cells
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The problem isn't capitalism, it's greed. There is also the welfare mentality, "I should have stuff for free".
Capitalism = greed, by definition.
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Directly connecting the FPGA has it's own issues with signal quality at higher resolutions, the IO is not really up to the job. Let's see what the new generation FPGAs can do.
/MikeJ
The pipistrello will be interesting to watch, although I'd like to see something a bit more than 8 bit.
http://www.gadgetfactory.net/2013/07/spectrum-zx-with-hdmi-out-on-the-pipistrello/
Xilinx seem to be pushing HDMI now, all their evaluation boards seem to have them. I don't know what resolution their higher end FPGA's can achieve though.
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When I owned an original Dreambox DM800s, which is an HD box, it had a DVI connector on the back. It came with a DVI to HDMI cable and HAD audio. So I guess there is a way around it.
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Slavery is an euphemism for capitalism here, imho.
Capitalism is killing us all.
Slavery is a euphemism for Communism here. Communism is killing us all.
Capitalists don't make laws. Governments make laws. Most capitalists are against the idea of owning "concepts" and "ideas".
Of course evil capitalists do favor owning "ideas" and "slavery" and etc. But it isn't capitalism in general.
The HDMI MAFIA has nothing to do with capitalism and it is totally irrelevant whether the mafia enforcers are capitalists, communists or some other religion. Its all irrelevant. All that matters is it is wrong, immoral and against the good of the people.
Anything that restricts the advancement of technology hurts civilization.
Capitalism is only the right to spend your money how you want. THAT IS ALL.
Capitalism has nothing to do with telling MikeJ he can't practice freedom of expression and solder wires any way he damned well pleases. Don't confuse separate issues!
The HDMI MAFIA opposes Capitalism. This proves they are not Capitalists. Capitalists believe that anyone can build anything they want any time they want and sell it or give it away for any price they want. The HDMI MAFIA does not want capitalists giving away free HDMI devices.
HDMI is AntiCapitalist.
DVI is Capitalist.
DVI does not charge you money to solder wires.
DVI mobsters don't threaten you if you put a DVI connector on a circuit board.
DVI Gangsters don't call up Mike and demand a cut of the action.
DVI produces the same quality of video signal that HDMI does.
DVI is free for all capitalists to use as they see fit.
HDMI is dangerous. If you fail to pay your protection money to the racket then you could have your life ruined in a "court" of "law".
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Let's keep the politics out of this thread, please!
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When I owned an original Dreambox DM800s, which is an HD box, it had a DVI connector on the back. It came with a DVI to HDMI cable and HAD audio. So I guess there is a way around it.
But what does physically generate the signals if the FPGA I/O isn't up to it?
Regarding HDMI at large it has the attributes of legal entrapment and should be avoided as much as possible. Ie don't use HDMI encoders, HDMI connectors, select players and TVs without it etc. Make use of DisplayPort (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort) and similar free video interfaces.
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But what does physically generate the signals if the FPGA I/O isn't up to it?
Regarding HDMI at large it has the attributes of legal entrapment and should be avoided as much as possible. Ie don't use HDMI encoders, HDMI connectors, select players and TVs without it etc. Make use of DisplayPort (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort) and similar free video interfaces.
According to http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/board/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=12016 (http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/board/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=12016)
Dreambox DM8000 uses a http://mipt.cc:8080/index.php?title=BCM7400
As the HDMI encoder is embedded in the CPU and the board has a DVI output, then they may have argued that it doesn't need an HDMI license. However they might have paid one anyway, we don't know.
When I owned an original Dreambox DM800s, which is an HD box, it had a DVI connector on the back. It came with a DVI to HDMI cable and HAD audio. So I guess there is a way around it.
There is a solution, you use an HDMI compatible PHY. But the FPGA replay doesn't have one & it's a bit late to start thinking about adding one.
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Ok so can Spartan-6 LX FPGA make HDMI video+audio signals or is that "too hard" for it to accomplish?
Is "RocketPort" uncapable of this too?
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Ok so can Spartan-6 LX FPGA make HDMI video+audio signals or is that "too hard" for it to accomplish?
The spectrum HDMI video I posted shows it can, the fpga isn't rated to 1080p but it seems with a wing and a prayer it seems to work.
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Alright so it's just a question of changing the line coding and stuffing the right data to get HDMI with audio. Of course as soon as commercial standard TVs comes with open interfaces such as DisplayPort the whole HDMI crap will be dumped.
So now we have a development roadmap where HDMI video+audio compatibility can be accomplished without getting entrapped.
Amiga coders hopefully generate a strong force field of wings and prayers ;)
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Any news on when we might actually be able to get one of these FPGAArcade boards?
I think I must be on a list somewhere having enquired numerous times over the years.
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So am I :P
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So am I :P
Actually pretty soon, I have hundreds of the damn things I need to get rid off.
Just want to make sure they work.
If you don't want the Amiga core you can have em now ...
/Mike
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@MikeJ
I only intend to use it as an Amiga. Basically running an .HDF file with Workbench 3.1, WHDload and a bunch of games.
- Will the core in its current status be able to handle this :) ?
I also need:
- RGB/Scart Cable
- ATX adapter
- Backplate
Thanks!
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@MikeJ
I only intend to use it as an Amiga. Basically running an .HDF file with Workbench 3.1, WHDload and a bunch of games.
- Will the core in its current status be able to handle this :) ?
I also need:
- RGB/Scart Cable
- ATX adapter
- Backplate
Thanks!
I already have it doing just that. My FPGA Arcade is running ClassicWB based on the OS3.1 install with WHDLoad and KG's game packs.
I also have it running OS3.9, but the old core had a few bugs that stopped certain things working correctly (or more likely it was the old 68020 soft core). I'm hoping it will be better with the new core.
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That's great. What sort of adapter do I need to put the arcade fpga inside an itx case and use the internal psu?
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I also have it running OS3.9, but the old core had a few bugs that stopped certain things working correctly (or more likely it was the old 68020 soft core).
Sounds slightly worrying. I thought bugs related to running stock OS was fixed by now. Any specifics on which events that trigger the bug(s) ?
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Sounds slightly worrying. I thought bugs related to running stock OS was fixed by now. Any specifics on which events that trigger the bug(s) ?
They probably have, but I've never had a core update so I can't confirm anything until the new one has been released.
From memory, I had to disable several commodities that came installed as standard with OS9 and replace a couple of files with earlier versions. It was trial and error to find out what kept crashing the system. Finally, the last remaining big bug was that attempting to open the screen mode prefs would crash the system from Workbench. Not that I change my screen mode much, but it is bloody annoying. In order to change it I have to load the HDF file in WinUAE, change the mode, save it and then put the SD card back into the FPHA Arcade.
ClassicWB 3.1 works fine and the suggestion was that it was more likely to have been bugs in the softcore 68020. Again, I've never had a update to that core and I'm sure it is much better now.
Another bit of evidence that it was more likely the softcore CPU was that I'd get the same crashes on the Chameleon64 using the 68020 and OS3.9.
Oh, and one more: Jakub could run OS3.9 OK on his machine using a real 68060.
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If you don't want the Amiga core you can have em now ...
/Mike
If I take it now I can get an Atari core?
Just Kidding :)
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To post a Minimig from ACUBE it is $50. To get one from AmigaKit US it costs $25.
Why is there such a price difference in postage?
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Extra surcharge for "La familia" ;)
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To post a Minimig from ACUBE it is $50. To get one from AmigaKit US it costs $25.
Why is there such a price difference in postage?
AmigaKit put it in an envelope and strap it to a carrier pigeon while ACube hire a private courier to hand carry it to your house in a giant, padded titanium container?
Who knows. Postage rates vary from country to country and different companies use different methods of posting.
I tried to order a rugby shirt from Wales once (where AmigaKit is located) and the company wanted $80 to mail it to me. I ordered a soccer shirt from Swansea City ( a few miles down the road) and they mailed it for $20.
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Just a quick tip for those stuck with displays that require video and audio integrated into the same HDMI signal:
(http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/458x296/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/1/1134_2_1_1.jpg)
The converter (http:// http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/hdmi-2/hdmi-dvi-vga-ypbpr-convert/dvi-audio-to-hdmi-converter.html) has input for DVI + S/PDIF and output for HDMI signal with video and audio integrated. All for $69.95 (NZ dollar?).
Alternatively wait for a more powerful FPGA with Rocketport etc and DVI connector that will make "upgrade" possible ;)
Anyone that can find a cheaper one?
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Actually pretty soon, I have hundreds of the damn things I need to get rid off.
Just want to make sure they work.
If you don't want the Amiga core you can have em now ...
/Mike
I'll take you up on that, they are upgradable right?
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Any news on the amiga core mike?
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If I use an adapter as in the picture below on a normal PAL TV (through HDMI, 50hz), will I get a picture without any problems?
Also, does the Arcade FPGA come with Scanlines effect?
By the way, looking at this picture, the Arcade FPGA has digital audio out?
Just a quick tip for those stuck with displays that require video and audio integrated into the same HDMI signal:
(http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/458x296/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/1/1134_2_1_1.jpg)
The converter (http:// http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/hdmi-2/hdmi-dvi-vga-ypbpr-convert/dvi-audio-to-hdmi-converter.html) has input for DVI + S/PDIF and output for HDMI signal with video and audio integrated. All for $69.95 (NZ dollar?).
Alternatively wait for a more powerful FPGA with Rocketport etc and DVI connector that will make "upgrade" possible ;)
Anyone that can find a cheaper one?
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If I use an adapter as in the picture below on a normal PAL TV (through HDMI, 50hz), will I get a picture without any problems?
You should get a picture with just a DVI-D to HDMI adapter.
AFAIK all the adapter will do is mix in the audio so you can use your TV's speakers (if it doesn't allow a separate audio input to be selected when using HDMI).
If your TV has a VGA input then that is another option.
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It has VGA but I don't think it likes 50hz on that.
Does the arcade fpga output amiga native resolution or one of the standard resolutions such as 1024 x 768 etc.?
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It has VGA but I don't think it likes 50hz on that.
Does the arcade fpga output amiga native resolution or one of the standard resolutions such as 1024 x 768 etc.?
The classic modes are thrown out with the original native timing - which may not work with HDMI/DVI inputs. The RTG has programmable "correct" modes.
/Mike
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The classic modes are thrown out with the original native timing - which may not work with HDMI/DVI inputs. The RTG has programmable "correct" modes.
/Mike
Hmmm - so some games may work, others not? How will this affect games exactly. My plan was to use the Fpga Arcade connected to a living room TV with a DVI to HDMI cable, as a 'console' if you wish.
Also, can I connect DVI + Audio to RGB/Scart? That would be pretty cool too.
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Hmmm - so some games may work, others not? How will this affect games exactly. My plan was to use the Fpga Arcade connected to a living room TV with a DVI to HDMI cable, as a 'console' if you wish.
Also, can I connect DVI + Audio to RGB/Scart? That would be pretty cool too.
I'm going to start an FAQ on my forums ...
Think of the hardware as being very close to the original. So for original modes use DVI to analog scart / monitor. This will work fine. It may work with a DVI to HDMI cable (separate audio). Some systems do, some don't. I am working on an on-the-fly HDMI adapter which will legalize the line length with adding only one line delay (so no tearing).
For high res you have the choice of DVI/HDMI or Analog.
/Mike
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I'm going to start an FAQ on my forums ...
Think of the hardware as being very close to the original. So for original modes use DVI to analog scart / monitor. This will work fine. It may work with a DVI to HDMI cable (separate audio). Some systems do, some don't. I am working on an on-the-fly HDMI adapter which will legalize the line length with adding only one line delay (so no tearing).
For high res you have the choice of DVI/HDMI or Analog.
/Mike
1. Yes a FAQ will defenitely help :)
2. DVI + Audio -> analog scart - do you have pinouts for these? Maybe you can include it in the FAQ?
3. When you say some sytems work, other don't I assume it depends on the TV set?
4. So if I use a DVI to HDMI from Ebay i will get screen tearing (like no Vsync effect?)
5. In the past I have used a Minimig 1.1 @ 50hz via VGA with my Benq LCD monitor (50hz capable) - it worked without any problems. Don't know if that means anything, thought I'd mention that :)
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Just a quick tip for those stuck with displays that require video and audio integrated into the same HDMI signal:
(http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/458x296/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/1/1134_2_1_1.jpg)
The converter (http:// http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/hdmi-2/hdmi-dvi-vga-ypbpr-convert/dvi-audio-to-hdmi-converter.html) has input for DVI + S/PDIF and output for HDMI signal with video and audio integrated. All for $69.95 (NZ dollar?).
Alternatively wait for a more powerful FPGA with Rocketport etc and DVI connector that will make "upgrade" possible ;)
Anyone that can find a cheaper one?
That sounds pretty high. I bought the one below from TigerDirect for $29.99 USD and I'm quite pleased with it. That's $38.46 NZD.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3429788&CatId=466
(http://images.highspeedbackbone.net/SkuImages/gallery/large/I14-42280_vmain01_plp_gl_3429788.jpg)
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Just what the doctor ordered, but it seems we need a special cable to use with the FPGA so we get a perfect picture.
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Just what the doctor ordered, but it seems we need a special cable to use with the FPGA so we get a perfect picture.
Do you mean this cable for the audio or is the Replay using a non-standard DVI output?
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=7969265&CatId=450
(http://images.highspeedbackbone.net/skuimages/gallery/large/C184-40614_vgallery01_plp_gl_7969265.jpg)
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This:
I am working on an on-the-fly HDMI adapter which will legalize the line length with adding only one line delay (so no tearing).
/Mike
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4. So if I use a DVI to HDMI from Ebay i will get screen tearing (like no Vsync effect?)
You shouldn't, what he means is that he's doing a convertor and so that the convertor doesn't add tearing he's doing it a line at a time.
Hmmm - so some games may work, others not? How will this affect games exactly.
He means some TV's will work, some won't. For OCS the timing is always the same, so if one game works they all should. If you're using ECS/AGA then you can change the timing, but I don't know if any games actually do.
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You shouldn't, what he means is that he's doing a convertor and so that the convertor doesn't add tearing he's doing it a line at a time.
He means some TV's will work, some won't. For OCS the timing is always the same, so if one game works they all should. If you're using ECS/AGA then you can change the timing, but I don't know if any games actually do.
Sorry for my stupidity, what convertor is he doing?
"All" I want to do is to able to play ECS and AGA games using a DVI->HDMI cable at 50hz without any scrolling or tearing issues.
Is that possible?
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Sorry for my stupidity, what convertor is he doing?
"All" I want to do is to able to play ECS and AGA games using a DVI->HDMI cable at 50hz without any scrolling or tearing issues.
Is that possible?
Will certainly work DVI -> VGA. Will probably work with DVI -> DVI. May well work with DVI -> HDMI.
HDMI seems to be a bit fussy over the pixel counts per line, not so fussy over the exact frequency. The idea is to retime to a HDMI line standard on the fly.
Yes, the 3.5mm to RCA cable is what you need for audio, I do the same.
/MikeJ
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Could there be legal implications by bundling a board with DVI output and a DVI-to-HDMI adapter?
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Could there be legal implications by bundling a board with DVI output and a DVI-to-HDMI adapter?
No, I don't believe so - HDMI is a super-set of DVI and DVI is open.
All I am doing is creating a slightly different DVI format which happens to be compatible with HDMI.
/Mike.
http://www.fpgaarcade.com
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@mikej: The new FPGA ARCADE page is up at last! Congrats, it looks very nice :)
It says "the Atari chipset is available"..where? How can I lay my hands on the shiny Atari ST core and go for some software blitting and crispy AY sound on my Fpga Arcade board?? She's been waiting for almost two years for some action :D
Ohh cores, where art thou?
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Ohh got the new website up now Mike :)
Is there a tutorial or guide for how to get developing a core for the FPGAArcade?
Getting setup to modify the cores and create new ones can be a pain, especially with Xilinx's development environment.
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Ohh got the new website up now Mike :)
Is there a tutorial or guide for how to get developing a core for the FPGAArcade?
Getting setup to modify the cores and create new ones can be a pain, especially with Xilinx's development environment.
Well, I just created the FAQ/how-to section ... look under Forums
Building (semi) public SVN server now.
To build the ARM code you type "make"
To build the FPGA image you run "build.bat" from the core root directory in a cmd prompt (I'm not an IDE sort of chap)
There is a demo design which shows how to hook up to the support libs.
We are getting there ....
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http://www.fpgaarcade.com/?q=node/10
"~68030/50mHz" I think it should read 50 MHz or it would mean that the device crawls along at 0.05 Hz ;)
amiga with big A because it's a name.
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Nice to see the site/forum getting some love!
It says the boards are shipping, so who got his!? :)
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Nice to see the site/forum getting some love!
It says the boards are shipping, so who got his!? :)
Mainly active developers - thought you guys would like stuff to run on the boards ;)
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To post a Minimig from ACUBE it is $50. To get one from AmigaKit US it costs $25.
Why is there such a price difference in postage?
Shipping to Australia right?
Shipping from Europe to Australia for 25$ it cannot be with UPS with tracking and insurance or they travel by foot maybe :-)
ACube ships with UPS or Fedex exclusively to be sure no Minimig or Sam are lost in the planes/boats:-) Also you have a tracking number so that you can follow your package.
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I can't find any link to this SVN server on your site (or here), how can I get to it?
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Can I refer you to the forums on FPGAArcade while I am writing up some notes on this - basically to save me doing everything twice.
The svn server is a development server for people actively working on projects - this is to stop it getting overloaded. Every user has write access. When we near code release I'll start taking snapshots to the main website.
If you want to contribute just send me an email with details. I am prioritizing board shipments to people working on porting cores etc for obvious reasons (they need something to work on).
Best,
MikeJ
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What's the status of the various ports?
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I consider purchasing a FPGA card for my A1200 but only if the speed is like winuae+JIT enabled (around 2400 mips)
also the card must have 3D GFX card,USB ,WIFI,scandoubler etc
otherwise I pass
The FPGA Arcade isn't an add-on card for the A1200.
It's a motherboard that replaces the Amiga 1200 and can be mounted in an itx/atx case.
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So how much does it cost?
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So how much does it cost?
I need to add this stuff back to the new website :)
~199E + VAT for the base model.
Prices from resellers will vary.
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Not as bad as I had feared, it might be just the thing to resurrect an old 1000 I have.
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Will AmigaKit be a reseller ???
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@All:
You can still place your pre-order by sending us a mail at laurent@amedia-computer.com or contact@amedia-computer.com
Many boards are yet reserved, so don't wait to much if you want it before the end of the year ;)
You can have a look at our webshop for prices (all prices include the french VAT for informations), we can send package whole over the world ;)
Thanks to Mike for his hard work finishing a usable version of the new firmware and core ;)
Laurent aka Faranheit
Amedia Computer France
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Norway dont pay French VAT right ? (not full EU member).
I know I have to pay Norwegian VAT for sure.
Im slightly wary being an earlybird, as I dont have so big skills in the hardware tech dept. As far as updating the ARM etc.
I can handle operating the MiniMig and the Chameleon (Chameleon being the easiest, to update etc.)
I look forward to (if it happens) HDMI, so 50 hz and smooth scroll wont be a problem :-)
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Hi! Mike I tried to contact you via pm regarding purchase no reply I realise that your probably busier than a tick on a dogs belly but can you please contact me as I would like to purchase one of your boards m8.
cheers
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Hi Mr Bug ;)
Since Norway is not yet in the European Community, effectively, you can pre-order without VAT at our shop but you'll certainly have to pay the norvegian VAT when it comes in the country.
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
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Since Norway is not yet in the European Community, effectively, you can pre-order without VAT at our shop but you'll certainly have to pay the norvegian VAT when it comes in the country.
Yeah when importing goods from a non EU country you pay VAT to your own government at the rate that they set, not to the country where you are buying it from at the rate they set. I don't know about Norway, but importing into the UK you will also be charged import duty and the courier will add their own price for presenting it to customs & VAT is charged on that too.
Goods sold within the EU have VAT applied at source at the rate set where they are sold (which doesn't have to be where they are shipped or invoiced from if you follow amazon's business model). It makes it annoying when you buy something from a country in the EU that has 20% VAT, but at least you don't get stung for the import duty and fee for presenting it to customs.
The VAT system for imports seems to be designed to dissuade individuals from importing as VAT registered companies can claim it back anyway.
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I am also keeping a back order list for U.S. sales. I just put up www.cbmstuff.com (http://www.cbmstuff.com) and will be adding the FPGA Arcade. I will also be offering a few different cases and a ATX power supply add-on that lets you use the power and reset buttons on a case as soft power/reset buttons for the FPGA Arcade board.
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It makes it annoying when you buy something from a country in the EU that has 20% VAT, but at least you don't get stung for the import duty and fee for presenting it to customs.
Yeah, countries like the UK... (UK VAT has been 20% since 2011)
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Yeah, countries like the UK... (UK VAT has been 20% since 2011)
Oh yeah, forgot about that we'd hiked ours. It's Sweden and Denmark with 25% that you need to watch out for.
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Oh yeah, forgot about that we'd hiked ours. It's Sweden and Denmark with 25% that you need to watch out for.
You can for sure put Norway in that category too with 25% VAT. :pint:
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Any idea when we will see this product in AmigaKit.com or is this going to be a Natami clone?
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Any idea when we will see this product in AmigaKit.com or is this going to be a Natami clone?
AmigaKit have a sample already. Commercial discussions will take place when volume pricing is finalized.
Final software tweaks are being put into place - we found a minor issue with the boot loader recently.
There are nearly 200 boards manufactured now, which is somewhat more than Natami.
/MikeJ
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AmigaKit have a sample already. Commercial discussions will take place when volume pricing is finalized.
Final software tweaks are being put into place - we found a minor issue with the boot loader recently.
There are nearly 200 boards manufactured now, which is somewhat more than Natami.
/MikeJ
I should also say that
Laurent aka Faranheit
AMEDIA COMPUTER FRANCE
have had a PO open with me for a long time and will be the first to receive bulk shipment.
/Mike
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Mike do you have a rough idea when we can get a board to test from you? Weeks? Or into the new year?
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Mike do you have a rough idea when we can get a board to test from you? Weeks? Or into the new year?
weeks.
/Mike
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Nice :pint::pint::pint::pint::pint::pint:
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weeks.
/Mike
Hey mikej does FPGA Replay have a SAGA custom chipset or just an AGA with more chip RAM? Like can someone make exclusive titles for FPGA Replay and will only work FPGA Replay or it can be emulated on WinUAE?
Can one say FPGA Replay is not a WinUAE in a hardware and that everything in it is actually custom chipset?
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Can one say FPGA Replay is not a WinUAE in a hardware and that everything in it is actually custom chipset?
I don't think it is either of those two.
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AmigaKit have a sample already. Commercial discussions will take place when volume pricing is finalized.
Final software tweaks are being put into place - we found a minor issue with the boot loader recently.
There are nearly 200 boards manufactured now, which is somewhat more than Natami.
/MikeJ
I didn't realize that the number of Natami boards exceeded 2 or 3 prototype boards. I also thought that project was essentially dead because of infighting between Gunnar and another team member. Has something changed and they've actually developed more than just a few prototypes?
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I didn't realize that the number of Natami boards exceeded 2 or 3 prototype boards. I also thought that project was essentially dead because of infighting between Gunnar and another team member. Has something changed and they've actually developed more than just a few prototypes?
I think that's sarcasm.
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Can one say FPGA Replay is not a WinUAE in a hardware and that everything in it is actually custom chipset?
It's far closer to custom chipset than software emulation, if that's what you are asking. The FPGA simulates the hardware of the classic chipset directly (no software running on a generic CPU, but rather the FPGA re-implements the Amiga chipset), however the simulation is not the original hardware exactly (due to no-one having these details, and the gate level deconstruction of the original hardware is not complete yet) so there are going to be a few incompatibilities.
There are arguments about the meaning of emulation, simulation, etc, let's not go there again.
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It's far closer to custom chipset than software emulation, if that's what you are asking. The FPGA simulates the hardware of the classic chipset directly (no software running on a generic CPU, but rather the FPGA re-implements the Amiga chipset), however the simulation is not the original hardware exactly (due to no-one having these details, and the gate level deconstruction of the original hardware is not complete yet) so there are going to be a few incompatibilities.
There are arguments about the meaning of emulation, simulation, etc, let's not go there again.
It's massively parallel emulation, while in a software emulator like winuae everything is serial.
The original question is meaningless in the context of an FPGA because the FPGA is programmable & is designed to be more than just an Amiga. IIRC mikej is more into Atari ST and it's just that others with the prototypes (and have been posting progress) are more Amiga focused.
The people writing the Amiga emulation seem to be targeting AGA with extra chip ram so far, but there is no reason it can't be extended beyond that. However any extensions that are made could be added to WinUAE if anyone cared enough.
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However any extensions that are made could be added to WinUAE if anyone cared enough.
I think the lack of demand for SAGA (or whatever advanced AGA people are thinking about) in WinUAE says a lot of the need to do it in the FPGA. By all means give us a mode that make the functionality we already have insanely fast but do we really need new functions?
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I was under the impression, that SAGA was an RTG and OpenGL extension to the aga chipset.
Some form of warp3D support in the fpgaarcade would be really great. But for now I can settle with the Picasso96 support :)
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I think the lack of demand for SAGA (or whatever advanced AGA people are thinking about) in WinUAE says a lot of the need to do it in the FPGA. By all means give us a mode that make the functionality we already have insanely fast but do we really need new functions?
Technically you are getting new functions.
1) Insanely fast (new function)
2) More CHIP RAM (new function)
Since you already have these two might as well just add the last bit
3) Allow support for more than 64 colors per sprite....say 32 bit colors per sprite....like you see in RTG
4) Add 3D support
and you have yourself a new spanking SAGA custom chipset.
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There are nearly 200 boards manufactured now, which is somewhat more than Natami.
/MikeJ
Please Santa, let me be on that list ;) Keep it up Mike. Any more news about daughterboards from Jakub?
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3) Allow support for more than 64 colors per sprite....say 32 bit colors per sprite....like you see in RTG
4) Add 3D support
The difference for 1 & 2 is that the devs wouldn't have to make any changes for existing code (unless they hooked game timings to known AGA timings, but that's bad practice). It wouldn't be much different to catering for the different cpu speeds classics have.
As for 3 and 4, surely that would be better as an extension to the RTG mode (behaving like existing 2D/3D cards do).
The more compatible things can be the better. We don't need another AMIGA platform to code for.
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I think the lack of demand for SAGA (or whatever advanced AGA people are thinking about) in WinUAE says a lot of the need to do it in the FPGA. By all means give us a mode that make the functionality we already have insanely fast but do we really need new functions?
WinUAE is an emulator of classic amiga systems, so there would be no demand unless there was a system that supported something better than AGA.
There is more likely to be demand for PPC/WarpOS/PCI etc.
Technically you are getting new functions.
1) Insanely fast (new function)
2) More CHIP RAM (new function)
No these aren't new functions. Existing software will just work with these without any changes.
Since you already have these two might as well just add the last bit
3) Allow support for more than 64 colors per sprite....say 32 bit colors per sprite....like you see in RTG
4) Add 3D support
and you have yourself a new spanking SAGA custom chipset.
"might as well" is pushing it, there are many reasons why 3d support won't happen. Lack of space in the FPGA being one of them.
You'll be lucky to get graphics as good as a PS1.
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Any idea when we will see this product in AmigaKit.com or is this going to be a Natami clone?
I am eager receiving the FPGArcade too and I am sure Mike and all the crew are doing a great job in providing us with the ultimate FPGA emulation board.
In the meantime, I placed an order for the Myst that I received 3 weeks later, which is faster than light considering that I pre-ordered the FPGArcade back in 2011.
I read in the forums that Myst performance should be a bit lower than FPGArcade itself and considerably lower than 060 daughterboard, however in my view it is worth enjoying it until PFGArcade&06DB become available to Amigans.
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PFGArcade&06DB ..? ;)
There's always the option to take the specifications and write code for an FPGA development board if you don't have the patience to wait for this board ;)
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PFGArcade&06DB ..? ;)
There's always the option to take the specifications and write code for an FPGA development board if you don't have the patience to wait for this board ;)
I have patience and am sincerely grateful to Mike and Jakub (and maybe others) who are developing those great boards. After all, patience is one of the most valuable virtues of Amigans ;)
The point was that there are alternative options until FPGArcade will be eventually released. Personally, I love to buy all the Amiga/FPGA devices and there might be other people interested too.
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Hi Roc,
If you would have placed your order at our webshop, you would not have waited 3 weeks for getting your Mist board since we have in stock ;)
The big difference between Mist and FPGA Arcade baord is that the second one has the AGA support, is easier for integration in any Mini ITX / Micro ATX and ATX case and also has more memory available.
Later (when the new firmware and core are ready), it will integrate RTG graphics support too ;)
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
Amedia Computer France
Site : http://amiga.amedia-computer.com
Thanks
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WinUAE is an emulator of classic amiga systems, so there would be no demand unless there was a system that supported something better than AGA
You're quite obviously wrong, judging from the hype in this thread.
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US customers that want to get on the waiting list, please click the link located in our NEWS page:
http://www.cbmstuff.com/news.htm
Thanks!
Jim
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Excuse my Ignorance but if I own a fpga with the daughter board would it be capable of running OS4 or morphos for that matter. This would not be a deal breaker but would in fact ad value to me wanting one that much more.
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Excuse my Ignorance but if I own a fpga with the daughter board would it be capable of running OS4 or morphos for that matter. This would not be a deal breaker but would in fact ad value to me wanting one that much more.
No PPC, no MorphOS or AmigaOS (besides that they would want money to port it)
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No PPC, no MorphOS or AmigaOS (besides that they would want money to port it)
It goes more than that...FPGA Replay is 68k based if there is going to be a port of AmigaOS 4.1 to run on FPGA they might as well have had two versions long time...and I mean long time ago, one PPC and one 68k...and if they went in that road...you can kiss PPC hardware good bye..because already a very tiny market who will purchase PPC will be even more tinier as no one will afford the PPC...and...then why have a PPC version in the first place...and we will head to the road of x86 port discussion all over again...and the cycle continues.
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It goes more than that...FPGA Replay is 68k based if there is going to be a port of AmigaOS 4.1 to run on FPGA they might as well have had two versions long time...and I mean long time ago, one PPC and one 68k...and if they went in that road...you can kiss PPC hardware good bye..because already a very tiny market who will purchase PPC will be even more tinier as no one will afford the PPC...and...then why have a PPC version in the first place...and we will head to the road of x86 port discussion all over again...and the cycle continues.
That's unfortunate I for one feel that the fpga really could be the future of the Amiga but without the support of OS4 and Morphos. I would buy a ppc card for a 1200 if I could get one and then even if I could find one will it be at a reasonable price. Yes i know they are available. Obviously the market is governed by supply and demand. BUt to pay nearly $3000 for a new OS4 system is just not in my price range as nice as it is.
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That's unfortunate I for one feel that the fpga really could be the future of the Amiga but without the support of OS4 and Morphos. I would buy a ppc card for a 1200 if I could get one and then even if I could find one will it be at a reasonable price. Yes i know they are available. Obviously the market is governed by supply and demand. BUt to pay nearly $3000 for a new OS4 system is just not in my price range as nice as it is.
Bingo. I am buying A4000D because really it is the very classic Amiga I have always wanted o have a very long time :D. In the future...I will get FPGA if it is still available.
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Bingo. I am buying A4000D because really it is the very classic Amiga I have always wanted o have a very long time :D. In the future...I will get FPGA if it is still available.
Why paying a high price for a dying hardware (caps etc) when you can get new hardware with way better specs? Since FPGA implementations became available, old Amiga hardware has no sense at all (except it you already have it).
For example: I wouln't use a pricy, old, floppy-based Amiga 500 computer anymore, the Minimig (or DE1) does the job way better, with less space, power drain, speed etc, and without any of the problems associated with software emulation (lag, un-smooth scroll, etc).
Buying old hardware is a waste of money and effort. Go FPGA, you won't look back, I can assure you that.
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Why paying a high price for a dying hardware (caps etc) when you can get new hardware with way better specs? Since FPGA implementations became available, old Amiga hardware has no sense at all (except it you already have it).
For example: I wouln't use a pricy, old, floppy-based Amiga 500 computer anymore, the Minimig (or DE1) does the job way better, with less space, power drain, speed etc, and without any of the problems associated with software emulation (lag, un-smooth scroll, etc).
Buying old hardware is a waste of money and effort. Go FPGA, you won't look back, I can assure you that.
Yes but FPGA Replay is not offering anything new over an A4000D though (like new custom chipset, major different like way faster CPU such as 500 Mhz+)! All it is offering is more CHIP RAM and default 68060 CPU upgrade skipping on the 030, 040 and so on....it is still AGA, and the RTG it offers can be obtained from a voodoo in an A4000D for example. It is still going with a 060 processor and pretty much the same speed as A4000D and last I check all software are developed with 2 MB CHIP in mind...what is FPGA Replay offers say that I cannot get on an A4000D,except say for a small space...and newer hardware...the specs are pretty much very close to the same. In fact if WinUAE emulates FPGA Replay it will simply emulate it by removing the 8 MB CHIP RAM on WinUAE to 512 MB Chip RAM and poof they are both the same spec (WinUAE vs FPGA Replay)
I will still face problems watching movies on an FPGA Replay say on an A4000D without having to go HAMP route.....
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Yes but FPGA Replay is not offering anything new over an A4000D though (like new custom chipset, major different like way faster CPU such as 500 Mhz+)! All it is offering is more CHIP RAM and default 68060 CPU upgrade skipping on the 030, 040 and so on....it is still AGA, and the RTG it offers can be obtained from a voodoo in an A4000D for example. It is still going with a 060 processor and pretty much the same speed as A4000D and last I check all software are developed with 2 MB CHIP in mind...what is FPGA Replay offers say that I cannot get on an A4000D,except say for a small space...and newer hardware...the specs are pretty much very close to the same. In fact if WinUAE emulates FPGA Replay it will simply emulate it by removing the 8 MB CHIP RAM on WinUAE to 512 MB Chip RAM and poof they are both the same spec (WinUAE vs FPGA Replay)
I will still face problems watching movies on an FPGA Replay say on an A4000D without having to go HAMP route.....
There is one thing you forgot. And that is that:
a) Not everyone has a A4000 anymore (Either never got one, sold it or it broke down)
b) A4000 is not portable...AT ALL :-)
c) You must admin that ALL the discussion and stuff going on around this project is actually keeping the Amiga alive. Maybe not directly (since it's a fpga-"amiga") but indirectly it keeps the community going.
And the most important fact is that Amiga is NOTHING without its community. It is all the social happenings, the good memories and the fact that us Amiga-fans NEVER give up. These are the things which are important. The hardware itself is a product of it all.
My FPGA-Replay is great for when my buddies and I want to play old-skool amiga games "On the fly" not having to bring the whole A4000/A1200 with us. This is a win-win for us -- as we can play games and have a blast using the easy-to-carry fpga-replay to hook up in no-time anywhere we like.
So who cares if its not the exact same as the old A4000 we used back in the days --- hey, neither are we. We got old too and are not the same anymore on the outside, but its what's inside that counts :-)
Thank you!
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There is one thing you forgot. And that is that:
a) Not everyone has a A4000 anymore (Either never got one, sold it or it broke down)
b) A4000 is not portable...AT ALL :-)
c) You must admin that ALL the discussion and stuff going on around this project is actually keeping the Amiga alive. Maybe not directly (since it's a fpga-"amiga") but indirectly it keeps the community going.
And the most important fact is that Amiga is NOTHING without its community. It is all the social happenings, the good memories and the fact that us Amiga-fans NEVER give up. These are the things which are important. The hardware itself is a product of it all.
My FPGA-Replay is great for when my buddies and I want to play old-skool amiga games "On the fly" not having to bring the whole A4000/A1200 with us. This is a win-win for us -- as we can play games and have a blast using the easy-to-carry fpga-replay to hook up in no-time anywhere we like.
So who cares if its not the exact same as the old A4000 we used back in the days --- hey, neither are we. We got old too and are not the same anymore on the outside, but its what's inside that counts :-)
Thank you!
I see where you are coming from...but there are other things you need to consider...for one I do not have friends like you do...so this does not apply to me. Second of all, the price of FPGA Replay if I am to buy it, it is going to cost me 800 dollars at least...well my A4000D is going to cost me 600 bucks and it already comes with 040. FPGA Replay is a fast 020 that matches that of a 030 speed.
Now I need to get the daughterboard of 060 let us assume that by itself is going to cost me 400 dollars to 500 dollars...so that is 800+500=1300, so it is a price of a new SAM pretty much. My Amiga 4000D is $600 bucks...so if I want to upgrade it to 060 @ 100 Mhz...assume this "rare" board is going to cost me 600 dollars.....well I can sell my accelerator of 040 for 400 bucks....so that price drops down too 200 bucks...so my Amiga 4000D is going to cost me 1000 all in-one...still 300 dollars cheaper...but I get more with it than the FPGA Replay. For one I get a powerful RTG and the option to go PPC if I wanted too in the future. Sure the 300 or 330 Mhz is nothing and it is going to cos tmore...and chances are I am better of getting SAM...but the point is...the choice is there...I can have OS 4.1 classic if I wanted too...with FPGA Replay I cannot.
But maybe the last end of the sentence is irrelevant and weak....and does not proof your point...but the price and cost of an A4000D 060 over an FPGA Replay 060 should be enough to convince me to go through A4000D 060 as it is cheaper getting that over an FPGA Replay 060.
THE MOST TRIVIAL REASON why I want the A4000D...at least I can fill it with fan and have a roaring machine :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
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Where in the world are you getting $800 for the FPGA Replay at?
It's like US $300 for the board. Add in a cheap case and psu and you are maybe at $400, tops.
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Where in the world are you getting $800 for the FPGA Replay at?
It's like US $300 for the board. Add in a cheap case and psu and you are maybe at $400, tops.
Because the website that is posted on is sold for 447 or something like that Euro which is 640 dollars...add in shipping and handling say 680 or something. I did exaggerated a little bit on the price but there we go...still expensive. But you are saying 400 top that is not bad...that is actually cheaper than what I thought. However, what would the cost be if I go with the 060 daughter board? Isn't the daughter board going to cost something like anywhere between the price of the fpga and a little bit more? Obviously if I am getting stuck with 030 specs for 400 top that is still pretty expensive...because an A1200 030 accelerator isn't 400 dollars as you can see here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Commodore-Amiga-1200-Accelerator-Apollo-1230-Mk-III-68030-40MHz-32MB-RAM-/190934642076?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item2c74976d9c .
So assume that the actually 060 board is 400...I am with 400+400=800...so for an FPGA Replay with 060 I get 800 is a decent price. However, if you tell me that the fpga replay have expansion slots like PCI, and ability to add your own video card, and ability to add your own sound card or Ethernet...or any form of expansion then not only is a decent price...but actually a cheap price and then way more affordable than an A4000D.
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As someone who has an expanded A4000 as my main "real" Amiga and as an owner of a FPGA Arcade, I expect the FPGA Arcade to replace my A4000 once I can get the daughterboard.
As a bare FPGA Aracde, it is really an expanded A1200 with a faster CPU, extra RAM, scan doubler, RTG and a PS2 mouse adapter (or USB mouse adapter).
Once the daughterboard is added, you can say that it has a 68060, even more RAM, another hard drive, sound card and a Deneb USB.
When I consider what it cost for me to put my A4000 into a tower, add a Warp Drive 68040 with extra RAM, FastATA4000, SD/FF, Deneb, Mediator for RTG, Spider USB and SB128 Sound, then I think the FPGA Arcade will be the cheaper option.
That said, I can't plug my Emplant card into the FPGA Arcade (but I could always run Shapeshifter I guess). :)
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When Amiga breaks down you can't order new spare parts. When the FPGA implementation breaks down you can just order another chip from the usual suppliers.
If any cool chips are missing from the FPGA board, one just fire up a PC and code it ;)
Regarding "real" hardware there is one use. To compare the HDL implementation to the real chip behaviour.
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Because the website that is posted on is sold for 447 or something like that Euro which is 640 dollars...add in shipping and handling say 680 or something. I did exaggerated a little bit on the price but there we go...still expensive. But you are saying 400 top that is not bad...that is actually cheaper than what I thought. However, what would the cost be if I go with the 060 daughter board? Isn't the daughter board going to cost something like anywhere between the price of the fpga and a little bit more? Obviously if I am getting stuck with 030 specs for 400 top that is still pretty expensive...because an A1200 030 accelerator isn't 400 dollars as you can see here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Commodore-Amiga-1200-Accelerator-Apollo-1230-Mk-III-68030-40MHz-32MB-RAM-/190934642076?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item2c74976d9c .
Your math is still wrong. 447 Euro is only $615 US dollars. Plus I don't know of anyone selling it for that. Jim Drew expects to sell it for around $300 USD. The guys in France are selling it for something like 240 Euro's. No one knows yet what the 060 expansion will cost.
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Your math is still wrong. 447 Euro is only $615 US dollars. Plus I don't know of anyone selling it for that. Jim Drew expects to sell it for around $300 USD. The guys in France are selling it for something like 240 Euro's. No one knows yet what the 060 expansion will cost.
Ok....the question arise then what guarantees that 060 expansion will be available? Also when will FPGA Replay be released for sale? How many times a promise have being made and failed in the end? You have to understand the reason why I am skeptical all together. Hey do not get me wrong...it is not mean I am not going to support FPGA Replay and not buy it...but I like collecting these machines...think of it as a stamp...I will buy the FPGA Replay but I also want to own the A4000D as well. I already have the A500 with me.
And in the future I want to own the PPC version of the Amiga...I will be saving my money for all these collections.
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And in the future I want to own the PPC version of the Amiga...I will be saving my money for all these collections.
I don't see any thing hindering a PPC daugther board for the FPGAArcade, except maybe, that some one needs to design and build it.
And yes, its true, that before we have it, we can't really be sure that its actually going to be made, but I bet that the FPGAArcade and the daugtherboard will be made.
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I don't see any thing hindering a PPC daugther board for the FPGAArcade, except maybe, that some one needs to design and build it.
And yes, its true, that before we have it, we can't really be sure that its actually going to be made, but I bet that the FPGAArcade and the daugtherboard will be made.
I do not do bet or gambling, but one thing for sure if you ask me to hold my breath (seeing the record history in Amiga community with false promises) this is one with a risk too high for me to hold my breath.
I am not saying ALL promises have being false...there is some promises where they became true: Minimag, ACA and naming little view...but those are not severe upgrades to go jumping about. But ones something like UltimatePPC and Natami comes as a major change to the community and the raw meat is put in front of us behind glass...we can never seem to reach it. I hope FPGA Replay will not be that raw meat.
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That said, I can't plug my Emplant card into the FPGA Arcade (but I could always run Shapeshifter I guess). :)
Isn't a 68k mac core for the replay in the works, making Shapeshifter unneeded?
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Isn't a 68k mac core for the replay in the works, making Shapeshifter unneeded?
I'd say it's the opposite, actually: isn't Shapeshifter working with the new core (as seen on youtube), making a 68k mac core unnedeed?
(For some reason, I find it quite funny! :D)
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I do not do bet or gambling, but one thing for sure if you ask me to hold my breath (seeing the record history in Amiga community with false promises) this is one with a risk too high for me to hold my breath.
I am not saying ALL promises have being false...there is some promises where they became true: Minimag, ACA and naming little view...but those are not severe upgrades to go jumping about. But ones something like UltimatePPC and Natami comes as a major change to the community and the raw meat is put in front of us behind glass...we can never seem to reach it. I hope FPGA Replay will not be that raw meat.
But the FPGA ARCADE is a reality. I have mine, waiting for the core upgrade wich is happening soonish. There's a lot of people who has one already. You're totally mistaken on where we are already :D
The only problem is, as far as I know, they're not mass-produced yet Minimig V1.1 style.
But I HOPE it will happen!
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US customers that want to get on the waiting list, please click the link located in our NEWS page:
http://www.cbmstuff.com/news.htm
Thanks!
Jim
Can Canadians get on this list or is there a Canadian distributor?
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Is it not possible that someone could own an A4000D and in the future FPGA Replay? I am sure the answer is yes.
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I'd say it's the opposite, actually: isn't Shapeshifter working with the new core (as seen on youtube), making a 68k mac core unnedeed?
A real 68k mac would be nice though, especially an original one.
You can run some ST software on the emulator for the Amiga too, but a real ST personality for the FPGAArcade would still be nice (and I have never owned an ST).
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I'd say it's the opposite, actually: isn't Shapeshifter working with the new core (as seen on youtube), making a 68k mac core unnedeed?
(For some reason, I find it quite funny! :D)
Yeah, I see the humor there... back in the day, I thought it was a hoot to run MS-DOS, Amiga OS, and Finder "simultaneously" on my Bridgeboard-equipped A2000 running shapshifter. ;-)
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If you got FPGA with memory, video output, keyboard/joystick input and a PC to develop. And enough juice in these things, you can create anything within physical limits.
In essence your limits is FPGA matrix size and your imagination. So is XX possible?, yes provided you spend the hacky-hacky hours on it. ;)
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Yeah, I see the humor there... back in the day, I thought it was a hoot to run MS-DOS, Amiga OS, and Finder "simultaneously" on my Bridgeboard-equipped A2000 running shapshifter. ;-)
I always love to freak younger geeks out by pointing out I had a machine with 6 CPUs back then (of course, only 4 of them actually in use at any one time - the 68000 and 8086 would usually be disabled) of 4 difference architectures:
* 68000 + 68020 accelerator
* 8086 + 80286 accelerator on the bridge board
* Z80 controlling my SCSI card.
* 6502 variant controlling the keyboard.
These days, the RAID controllers in our servers at work have PPC's in them, and many modern hard-drives have ARM cores in them, so we're up to 3 architectures still (and one of the reasons why x86 ranks so low in number of units shipped).
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The reason that x86 ranks and ships low is that the design is power hungry, inefficient and complex. It just sucks.
Funny thought.. one could implement a 80386 "sidecar" in HDL for an FPGA platform ;)
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I always love to freak younger geeks out by pointing out I had a machine with 6 CPUs back then (of course, only 4 of them actually in use at any one time - the 68000 and 8086 would usually be disabled) of 4 difference architectures:
You could make the same observation for the previous generation of machines too. My Atari 800 had a CPU in each of the four external floppies and the 850 serial interface. There's 6 right there. ;-) 7 if you stretch the point beyond elastic limits and consider Antic (the gfx chip) as a cpu. ;-)
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(http://media.bestofmicro.com/Z/H/387485/original/power-chart.png)
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And the point is?
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And the point is?
I do not know myself...I am actually curious too.
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And the point is?
Buy low, sell high? ;)
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Is it not possible that someone could own an A4000D and in the future FPGA Replay? I am sure the answer is yes.
Absolutely. And for what it is worth, I agree with you. Since you want an "A4000" experience then you shouldn't think of buying an FPGA Arcade until the daughterboard is actually available to purchase.
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Absolutely. And for what it is worth, I agree with you. Since you want an "A4000" experience then you shouldn't think of buying an FPGA Arcade until the daughterboard is actually available to purchase.
THANK YOU!!
Yes, I really want the A4000D experience...and I want to keep it with me...for a very long time :D I am already enjoying the A500 experience...and yes I will buy the FPGA Replay in the future...and yes I want also in the future the OS 4.1 experience. But what I will not have...is the minimag experience! :P
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THANK YOU!!
Yes, I really want the A4000D experience...and I want to keep it with me...for a very long time :D I am already enjoying the A500 experience...and yes I will buy the FPGA Replay in the future...and yes I want also in the future the OS 4.1 experience.
LOL. You're welcome. :D
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Any update on board availability?
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Hi,
Mike is hardly working on the new core in order to send the boards quickly now.
The boards are available but not usable without the new core.
As soon as we get the new core and test it, we'll warn all pre-orderers ;)
Thanks, Lionel and Laurent
Amedia Computer France
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You could make the same observation for the previous generation of machines too. My Atari 800 had a CPU in each of the four external floppies and the 850 serial interface. There's 6 right there. ;-) 7 if you stretch the point beyond elastic limits and consider Antic (the gfx chip) as a cpu. ;-)
Yeah. Same with the C64 of course - lots of fastloaders worked in part by downloading their own driver to the 1541, which had a 6502 as well.
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Bump
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Any updates yet on availability?
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Any updates yet on availability?
I believe real life, very thorough testing and holidays may have thwarted the pre Christmas launch we were all hoping for. Fingers crossed though...
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I believe real life, very thorough testing and holidays may have thwarted the pre Christmas launch we were all hoping for. Fingers crossed though...
Actually I am going to be saving my money and just get FPGA Replay instead. It is small...tiny and get to the point...
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@AmigaClassicRule:
The FPGA Arcade board IS the FPGA Replay board ;)
The two names are for the same board ;)
Mike is hardly working on debugging the new Amiga core since he came back home.
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
Amedia Computer France
New : you can now choose english or french language on our webshop with the flags on the top right corner ;)
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@AmigaClassicRule:
The FPGA Arcade board IS the FPGA Replay board ;)
The two names are for the same board ;)
Mike is hardly working on debugging the new Amiga core since he came back home.
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
Amedia Computer France
New : you can now choose english or french language on our webshop with the flags on the top right corner ;)
I know. I am skipping getting A4000D and skipping getting anymore classic Amiga all together...I am just going to save my money and get that. It is tiny, fits on my desktop, support AGA, faster than the original Amiga classic Amiga hardware, already have USB, support for internet, allow me to hook to monitor...no more need of floppy disks or disk drives that die out....and so on. When I have more money in the future I will get SAM or X1000...still cheaper and better money worth than spending money on classic Amiga hardware and then upgrading it with PPC hardware costing me anywhere between 3k to 5k and still not as powerful as the new modern X1000 for example or the FPGA Replay.
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Farenheit - Do you mean working hard? Hardly working means spending very little time on :)
Robert
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Oups, yes :)
Sorry for the bad english ;)
Yes, Mike is working very hard on debugging the new Amiga core ;)
Thanks, Laurent aka Faranheit
Amedia Computer France
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still hope im on the preorder list for fpga arcade, shortly selling my classic a1200 tower, to get funds for it.
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So whats the buzz???
lately theres been no new info about our beloved and so awaited fpga arcade board...
Mike?
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That's because all the action is now in the forum at http://www.fpgaarcade.com - see you there!
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I hope I am still on the list.
This board is going to be great.
I might even sell my classic amigas.
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Well, Mike finally came through for me and sent me a board. I have been on his list since March 2011, and had been offered a board then but wanted to wait for the final board. Man, like I told Mike, if I had known how long it would be I would have jumped on that earlier offer. Mike assured me most of the time since then has been spent on software and that the hardware has been solid. Any how, I just moved a few months ago and my new(old) house which is a downsized from a 4000sqft to a 1938sqft home, and the room that has my electronic equipment is a mess with boxes all over the place. But, I hope to have it setup here shortly so I can play with this board. My discussions with Mike makes me feel that he is on the verge of getting these boards out to everyone very soon, so do not give up hope as this board is very real and I will supply some pics of my setup soon. Keep the faith.
Mike
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Glad you got one. There is a lot of work going on, not just on the Amiga core. I know this wait for the update seems like an eternity, but that's just because Mike isn't going to release the core until he's completely satisfied with it. 2 more weeks? ;)
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So how does it work, are there three FPGAs or are all the custom chips emulated on one FPGA?
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Glad you got one. There is a lot of work going on, not just on the Amiga core. I know this wait for the update seems like an eternity, but that's just because Mike isn't going to release the core until he's completely satisfied with it. 2 more weeks? ;)
Thanks. Mike mentioned the continued work on the Amiga core, and promised no badgering once I got my board, so I had to swear to be patient while that work was getting done. Two weeks sounds great!
Mike
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So how does it work, are there three FPGAs or are all the custom chips emulated on one FPGA?
One FPGA. Kind of appropriate, since back in the day, the three custom chips were supposed to be one chip, but the tech of the day didn't go that far.
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I have to admit patience is running thin here.
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I have been waiting since 2011 but rather wait for fully working amiga core than a buggy one. Before getting my fpga arcade board.
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Glad you got one. There is a lot of work going on, not just on the Amiga core. I know this wait for the update seems like an eternity, but that's just because Mike isn't going to release the core until he's completely satisfied with it. 2 more weeks? ;)
Are there any news?
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Mike seems to be giving boards to developers, so there are plenty of new cores in various states of awesomeness. Amiga core is still missing some key ingredients before the next batch of hardware will be rolling off the presses. Just another 2 weeks... (in the amiga sense)
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I've been sent new firmware to run the latest core (and which should allow me to load some additional cores). Unfortunately I've been busy with some other stuff so I wasn't going to reflash until the weekend (hopefully tomorrow).
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Can you buy the board now or ?
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Can you buy the board now or ?
Only if you are able to assist with the development it seems. We appear to be very close, but Mike wont release to the masses until the common framework is stable and the AGA core works adequately. With the Atari (400/800), VIC20 and C64 cores being developed by various people there is extra work required on the common framework. There is steady, and visible progress so it will be with us before all our amigas are retired to the digital graveyard.
I think Mike is currently having fun dismantling C64 SIDs and that can only be a good thing.
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It would be neat to see comparisons between Replay, UAE and a non-virtual Amiga on speed, quality, etc.
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Mike seems to be giving boards to developers, so there are plenty of new cores in various states of awesomeness. Amiga core is still missing some key ingredients before the next batch of hardware will be rolling off the presses. Just another 2 weeks... (in the amiga sense)
Uff, this is good news. I still waiting for this project is on my list must have.
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the three custom chips were supposed to be one chip, but the tech of the day didn't go that far.
I've never seen anything to suggest that it was supposed to be one chip, I was under the impression that they set out from the beginning to make it three.
If fitting it all in one chip was possible then the design wouldn't have been as revolutionary as it turned out.
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The revolutionary was to make the most use of the hardware that was possible which made things possible at a price point that were previously not possible. The "chips" were designed with 74-series chips in the beginning and chipfabs just made it all more cheaper.
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I have one now, only managed to load 3.1 rom and walker rom so far, waiting to be able load adfs and hdfs, maybe will get iso support too. I am getting daughterboard when ready. Does the Poseidon usb driver support usb cdrom/dvd/bluray drives?
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Are you guys having any luck in getting answers to emails or PM from Farenheit at Amedia Computer?
I have sent him 2 emails, PM's and not response. I'm trying to see if my name is still in his waiting list to buy the FPGA system when it becomes available. I signed up back in March 2013.
Or do you know of any other site, preferably in the U.S., where I could sign my name in?
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The "chips" were designed with 74-series chips in the beginning and chipfabs just made it all more cheaper.
I was under the impression they designed the schematic for the custom chips, then made them using 74 series chips.
However, whichever way round they did it, the boards were already separated. http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/prototypes/cbm-lorraine-daphne-agnus.jpg
http://uber-leet.com/HistoryOfTheAmiga/
Amiga 1000 (Lorraine Project) being developed.
Includes prototypes of
Agnus (8 breadboards each with 250 chips),
Denice (Codename: Daphne) and
Paula (Codename: Portia) co-processors.
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What's the price on the Replay board, anyway or is it some super secret? I'm only asking, 'cos I'd really like to retire my A500. I planned on upgrading it, but the ACA500 is completely lackluster to me and the only, other thing I've seen that even remotely interests me is the Replay board.
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What's the price on the Replay board, anyway or is it some super secret? I'm only asking, 'cos I'd really like to retire my A500. I planned on upgrading it, but the ACA500 is completely lackluster to me and the only, other thing I've seen that even remotely interests me is the Replay board.
Jim Drew has the FPGA listed at $299 http://www.cbmstuff.com. I'm at the same point as you as are quite a few others. Nobody wants to spend loads of cash on say a 1200 pr 4000 with an accelerator knowing that the FPGA is just around the corner. Anyway hope this info helps.
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Wow was going to buy through cbmstuff but its no longer listed :-(
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Wow was going to buy through cbmstuff but its no longer listed :-(
Try looking around.
http://www.cbmstuff.com/news.htm
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Try looking around.
http://www.cbmstuff.com/news.htm
Checked that out but appears to be US only now :-/ Thanks though Iggy, will keep sitting and waiting :-)
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The arrangement that Mike and I have is for North America (US) sales for the FPGA Arcade Replay. So, I have to honor that. I have already had quite a few people from South America try to beg and plead for me to sell them one directly because the VAT is so high from outside of the U.S. I won't do that, so please do not ask (or beg or plead!)
I don't have the FPGA Arcade listed in the online store yet because I don't have them available. Once they become available to me, they will be there for purchase.
The retail pricing is slated to be $299, but that may go up or down, depending on the final price to me. You are welcome to click on the link for the waiting list on the NEWS page:
http://www.cbmstuff.com/news.htm
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What is the reason to decline business with South america? seems longer distance to deal with Europe from there.
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Maybe I can get someone to purchase on my behalf and then send to NZ? Seems crazy though, hoping it's made available for us at the bottom of the world :-(
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Maybe I can get someone to purchase on my behalf and then send to NZ? Seems crazy though, hoping it's made available for us at the bottom of the world :-(
For regions not covered by the resellers, I will sell direct to.
Drop me a mail, details on the website.
Cheers,
Mike
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What is the reason to decline business with South america? seems longer distance to deal with Europe from there.
That is the agreement that Mike and I have. I would be happy to sell anywhere in the world because items shipped from the U.S. to other countries have no VAT. There may be some import taxes based on the value, but not the typical 19%-30% VAT.
Mike has mentioned about allowing me to sell to other areas. If that should occur, I will let everyone know.
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Not sure if this has already been posted but....
[youtube]sFi_Sh9cQdk[/youtube]
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Not here, but on the fpga Arcade forum.
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Nice I hadn't seen this video. But all it does is make me do is salivate and want one all the more AAAHHHHHHH. I can't wait any longer. :)
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Things have progressed quite a bit in the last few weeks with the Amiga core for Replay. I have narrowed down the issues with the 68020+ instruction emulation, and Mike is working on fixing that. Mike and I worked a few days on the floppy support and now there is support for SuperCard Pro (.scp) flux images! This means that we now have the ability to image *any* disk and use it with Amiga core just like it was a real floppy disk. So, every disk protection ever created will work with the virtual floppy drives. The SCP flux level images contain the exact flux data that comes off of the disk drive's head. So, at this point the floppy hardware emulation is so good that it would be possible to connect a few lines and attach a real floppy disk drive to the Replay. That might happen in the future.
There are a several blitter modes that are not supported yet, and so there are graphics glitches with some games. This graphics glitch, along with the 68020+ instruction emulation is preventing AGA mode from working fully. I expect that as these last couple of things are ironed out that the core will be pretty incredible.
Mike is focused on the replication of the exact hardware, not a simulation of it. So, since this is built around the A1200/A4000 chipset, it replicates the IDE controller. Mike just finished a new file handler for the ARM processor giving the core direct access to the SD card. The result is virtual hard drive (hardfiles on the SD card) transfers of >2MB per second! Workbench folders open incredibly fast!
I will be attending AmiWest in October, doing a demonstration of the Replay board and all of its cores, and expect the Amiga core to be a very big hit!
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Thanks for the update Jim. Can't wait
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That is the agreement that Mike and I have. I would be happy to sell anywhere in the world because items shipped from the U.S. to other countries have no VAT. There may be some import taxes based on the value, but not the typical 19%-30% VAT.
Mike has mentioned about allowing me to sell to other areas. If that should occur, I will let everyone know.
Every time I have order something from the USA I have been hit with both a VAT and Import duty, plus a handling fee. Last time that added up to 40% to the price instead of the 20% VAT I would pay on anything ordered from inside the EU.
As such if a product is only available from the USA it is effectively unavailable to EU customers such as my self here in the UK unless a company imports in bulk and splits the costs over the hole order. So I hope you have agreed a EU based dealer for EU orders or you can probably right off Europe as a market for the FPGA Replay Board.
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Mike is in Europe and at least one of the distributors are too
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Every time I have order something from the USA I have been hit with both a VAT and Import duty, plus a handling fee. Last time that added up to 40% to the price instead of the 20% VAT I would pay on anything ordered from inside the EU.
I used to avoid charges by getting them sent to work. The courier decides which parcels get inspected and they never could be bothered if it had a work address.
The reason was it cost them too much money while the driver waited for someone to be found who could pay. Now you get a letter through the post and the parcel doesn't get released until you pay customs & excise direct.
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@cunnpole
Mike is in Europe and at least one of the distributors are too
That's good to know, as I currently own 2 Minimigs a standard one I use to run ADF based software and a second 4MB one with ARM addon I use to run HD based software, but I will probably upgrade to an FPGA Replay at some point in the future if the price is reasonable.
I dont expect my A1200 based expanded Amigas to last for ever so I want a way to replace them when they finally do fail and I must admit I use my Minimigs far more these days than my A1200's as they are more flexible and just work. Were as my A1200's need a few hours work each time I move them to get them running stably again.
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Sounds good Jim. Any news on the performance of the CPU soft-core? And on the performance of AGA modes?
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Sounds good Jim. Any news on the performance of the CPU soft-core? And on the performance of AGA modes?
Keep an eye on the FPGAArcade forum. I'm working on a few last issues with the blitter/AGA code, and I want to get that stable before I turn the CPU cache on again.
I hope to get a stable, feature complete, version out next week.
I'm moving flat (again) on the 22nd, then I can start testing and shipping boards again.
/MikeJ
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We have been testing with caches off to try to eliminate one more layer of potential issues, but the last thing I seem to remember from Mike was a peak was around 106MHz 020+. There can be improvements though from there. Mike is in the process of actually dramatically slowing down the entire chipset because that is one of the issues with some games not working... they bang on the custom chipset bus, expecting the operation to act as a throttle mechanism. Right now, there is no throttle! Mike has a provision in the OSD (on screen display, which the menu system) for selecting 68000, 68010, 68EC020, and 68020 CPUs (and there is also the chipset type there). I am hoping we can add a 68040 mode w/MMU and FPU. There is plenty of space left in the FPGA for that - fortunately, it's a big FPGA that's used in Replay. There is also PicassoIV RTG support.
I am distributing only to North America. Purchases outside of North America can be made through one of Mike's distributors. I do ship my products world-wide, and mark them so that there is no (or very little) duties that are due.
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I'm not using my FPGAArcade b/c I wait for this new core. Good to hear that excellent progress has been made. I'd to have a Falcon core too and I'm an Arcade fan. Excellent board.
AFAIR you've to use a keyboard to use the menu I would love to be able to use the board with only the joystick so no need to have and ugly keyboard and mouse below the TV (living room)
Congrats to all involved.
Kamelito
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It's good news they are almost ready.
Also, I can't wait till you reach the 200mhz mark. It would be like having the next generation of Amiga 4000.
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We have been testing with caches off to try to eliminate one more layer of potential issues, but the last thing I seem to remember from Mike was a peak was around 106MHz 020+. There can be improvements though from there. Mike is in the process of actually dramatically slowing down the entire chipset because that is one of the issues with some games not working... they bang on the custom chipset bus, expecting the operation to act as a throttle mechanism. Right now, there is no throttle! Mike has a provision in the OSD (on screen display, which the menu system) for selecting 68000, 68010, 68EC020, and 68020 CPUs (and there is also the chipset type there). I am hoping we can add a 68040 mode w/MMU and FPU. There is plenty of space left in the FPGA for that - fortunately, it's a big FPGA that's used in Replay. There is also PicassoIV RTG support.
I am distributing only to North America. Purchases outside of North America can be made through one of Mike's distributors. I do ship my products world-wide, and mark them so that there is no (or very little) duties that are due.
Any news on the pre-order list from cbmstuff? Some of us in the US are trying to get hold to some of these boards.
Thanks
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At what point can US buyers pay and expect to receive a board in a reasonable time frame?
The only reason I don't have one is that I didn't feel comfortable with the timeframes and the "if you ever emailed me, you're in the queue" nature of orders.
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Until the Amiga core is completed to at least get rid of the current graphics glitch and CPU instruction emulation problem, I won't have any boards available. Once I have boards, shipping is typically within 24hrs, that is how shipping is done with my other product.
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I've been haunting this particular post and the FPGA Arcade forum for many years at this point. It feels like Christmas is around the corner.
I'm very much looking forward to the Replay, especially seeing just how much effort Mike, Jim and the others are all putting into the Amiga (and other!) cores.
Thank you all for your efforts and patience. We all look forward to the fruit of your labours.
Gryfon
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I am just along for the ride. This is Mike's baby. I am not a FPGA guy by any means, but I do know the Amiga hardware so I help where I can.
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I used to avoid charges by getting them sent to work. The courier decides which parcels get inspected and they never could be bothered if it had a work address.
The reason was it cost them too much money while the driver waited for someone to be found who could pay. Now you get a letter through the post and the parcel doesn't get released until you pay customs & excise direct.
Its handy if you work at a place that allows you to accept packages. I work in a grocery store, I doubt they'd let me accept packages ;-) heh!
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Are there any good recent videos of the minimig core running on the FPGA Arcade? Can't find much on Youtube, and certainly nothing recent.
Also, how well is the core running now?
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Are there any good recent videos of the minimig core running on the FPGA Arcade? Can't find much on Youtube, and certainly nothing recent.
Also, how well is the core running now?
Check out Mike's forum for the latest info. I'm still using the old core because they keep tinkering with the code to improve it and squeeze out the best performance. The result is that one day something works and the next it is broken, and then it is fixed again, etc.
Last time I checked it seemed to be the optimization of the hard drive and floppy emulation that was holding things up on the Amiga side. There's also plenty of news there on how the other cores are progressing.
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Last time I checked it seemed to be the optimization of the hard drive and floppy emulation that was holding things up on the Amiga side. There's also plenty of news there on how the other cores are progressing.
Floppy (including SCP) and hard disk stuff all done - including direct block transfers to speed thinks up. RDB synthesis is missing still.
Main focus is on tweaking CPU/chipset access speeds and graphics glitches in AGA mode.
It should remain usable now as it was the disk stuff which was disruptive.
/Mike
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Floppy (including SCP) and hard disk stuff all done - including direct block transfers to speed thinks up. RDB synthesis is missing still.
Main focus is on tweaking CPU/chipset access speeds and graphics glitches in AGA mode.
It should remain usable now as it was the disk stuff which was disruptive.
/Mike
Cheers Mike. So I should be OK to look at reflashing my board and using the new core?
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Cheers Mike. So I should be OK to look at reflashing my board and using the new core?
Yup. Remember to update the ARM firmware and the ini file as well.
/Mike
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Yup. Remember to update the ARM firmware and the ini file as well.
/Mike
Yeah, I'll need to look up those instructions when I get back from this latest trip.
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Not to be an ass.... but any ETA on when us "non-developers, but enthusiasts" can get our hands on this board?
"2015" is a valid answer to this question, I'm just looking for a ballpark here :)
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Not to be an ass.... but any ETA on when us "non-developers, but enthusiasts" can get our hands on this board?
"2015" is a valid answer to this question, I'm just looking for a ballpark here :)
ASAP. I currently have over 100 boards in stock and I'm setting up a production run now.
I'll start shifting boards to distributors in the next two weeks.
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Hi Mike,
Im still unable to get this board working at all.
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ASAP. I currently have over 100 boards in stock and I'm setting up a production run now.
I'll start shifting boards to distributors in the next two weeks.
What about the people on your list?
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Hi Mike,
Im still unable to get this board working at all.
Hi,
I haven't heard from you in a while. Drop me a mail again and I'll walk you through it.
I recommend the SD card is used to update the firmware.
Did you wire up the RS232 debug port?
What did you do in your first attempt, did you overwrite the bootloader?
If so, and it no longer boots on the RS232 port, we can use BOSSA over the USB port to reflash the bootloader.
/Mike
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Hi,
I haven't heard from you in a while. Drop me a mail again and I'll walk you through it.
I recommend the SD card is used to update the firmware.
Did you wire up the RS232 debug port?
What did you do in your first attempt, did you overwrite the bootloader?
If so, and it no longer boots on the RS232 port, we can use BOSSA over the USB port to reflash the bootloader.
/Mike
Hi,
Will bring it home this weekend and give you a shout.
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Hi,
Will bring it home this weekend and give you a shout.
Great. I am moving my work area Sunday/Monday to the new flat, but I should be able to talk you through it.
We'll start a new thread on my forum as well to document the process!
Best,
Mike
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Eagerly awaiting availability of the FPGA Arcade Mike :-) Fingers crossed for two weeks time!
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Those infamous two more weeks =D
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ASAP. I currently have over 100 boards in stock and I'm setting up a production run now.
I'll start shifting boards to distributors in the next two weeks.
Amazing, then I'll be eagerly awaiting news, since I've been on the preorder list since February 2012 ;)
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Pre-ordered this board about a year ago from Amedia Computer France, but I see others have waited longer. Hope they will get some units out to customers soon! :)
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I have left the scene for a while and come back. Is this still something that one can order?
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Been on this "list" as well since 2012 and never heard a word.
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@Crom))
on this list from 2010. I think the last time I looked into this something like 12 years has gone by and no product for general sale. I have emailed the guy working on this and 2 years ago it "was in a very short time" ready to buy. This is nonsense and I will spend my money with others far before this joke!
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Oh ok, it's been so long I reckon the manufacturer can't even source all the parts required for a BOM without revising the product design at this point.
Does the original Minimig do AGA yet? I have that. It works.
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It's definitely a slow process, slower than Mike expected and slower than it should. My understanding is the board is for sale at a distributor, but I don't recall which. I do have a board here that I haven't had much time to play with (hopefully that is changing soon).
Squeaky wheel gets the oil - if you want one email Mike, check his forums, etc. and I think you'll find the proper avenue.
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Better than I got then - all the times I've inquired with cash in my hand I've never even gotten a reply back.
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Better than I got then - all the times I've inquired with cash in my hand I've never even gotten a reply back.
I don't know the specifics, but I know Mike seems busy and he also seems like he's more interested in development than selling - which to me is a good thing. He's wants to get it right instead of making a quick buck on an unfinished product.
I know it's frustrating if you want one and have been on the list for a while, but I think if you put some effort in you can get one. Or keep waiting until he works out a better distribution system. I believe Jim Drew will be selling them in the US.
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Hi all there ;)
There is some great update about the boards from today !
First : Mike is working harder and harder in fixing games like SlamTilt or Pinball Illusions, AGA s working since a long time on the boards.
Second : the boards are quicker than the Mist boards, especially at startup.
After that, yes, it has took many more time than Mike has expected, but don't forget it's very hard system to reproduce (Amiga part) and he has rewritten his core from scratch since the last 2 years, so, his code his optimized ;)
At the end, the boards are coming from now slowly to our shop and also to Jim Drew.
For informations, we are the official reseller for whole Europe (with Mike's agreement since many times) and Jim is the official one for the U.S..
The main purpose for Mike is sending a fully functionnal board, not a beta one which could have some instability problems for example, and even if it takes more time than expected, I think it's a good choice.
All is coming this year (30 year's Amiga ??).
Thanks to Mike for his awesome work !
Laurent - Amedia Computer
All Amiga products HERE (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com)
English flag on the top right corner of the site ;)
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Many thanks for the update, it's hard to get through all the posts here. Can you let us also know, are there any plans, even very distanced, for 060 add-on? Thanks again!
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Hi ;)
For the moment, there are some few prototypes for the daughter board.
But the priority is on delivering as many boards as possible in the following two months, fixing as many bugs as possibles (in the core and firmware).
So, for the moment, we can't say more at this point.
Thanks, Laurent
Amedia Computer
All Amiga Products are HERE (http://amiga.amedia-computer.com).
English flag is on the top right corner of the site
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Thank you for letting me know. So it seems daughterboard is not completely abandoned, but there are other prioritises for now. This is important to me because I am on the list and I am interested in expanding the FPGAA.
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I completely forgot everything about the replay.
I can't even remember if I signed up or not :)
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Mike is now pushing his remaining stock out to those on his original list and is updating his instructions for another batch to be produced and tested at the factory. I just got mine last week so things are definitely happening.
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Can anyone be so kind and share some ready to go SD card image? I cannot register on FPGArcade forum at all and I cannot locate needed files to get my toy up and running..
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The needed files can be found here: http://svn.fpgaarcade.com/
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The needed files can be found here: http://svn.fpgaarcade.com/
I saw that but aren't they just source codes for developers?
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I saw that but aren't they just source codes for developers?
perhaps this:
http://svn.fpgaarcade.com/release/
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Yep I got that far but I'm stuck trying to run amiga aga core :(
After choosing Amiga Aga target I'm getting (via serial)
DBG: FPGA configured in 501 ms.
DBG: SPI clock: 24 MHz
DBG: Menu requires 7272 bytes
and blank screen.
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Mystery solved. It doesn't like my ASUS PB279 monitor :(
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Hi Pampers.
Most of the information you need should be on the Replay forum.
The svn.fpgaarcade.com repos is public. There is a user name/password (displayed on the webpage) but the release area you can get to directly. This is just to reduce server load from robots.
The latest Amiga core is in the Amiga status thread, I'll push this to the release area in the next day or so once I've fixed the RTG blitter.
In general more monitors cope with VGA rather than DVI/HDMI (the Amiga output is a bit non-standard). You can use a DVI to VGA adapter which picks off the analog signals.
In the ini file you can change the default sync format (composite or separate h/c) and enable/disable double scan.
/MikeJ
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Thanks Mike
You recon that DVI-VGA adapter and then VGA-HDMI cable would work with my monitor or not too much chances?
Also is there any update on daughterboard or at least some network solution?
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Thanks Mike
You recon that DVI-VGA adapter and then VGA-HDMI cable would work with my monitor or not too much chances?
Also is there any update on daughterboard or at least some network solution?
No, either DVI to VGA will work on pretty much every monitor (you will probably need to enable doublescan). DVI/HDMI works with the RTG, and on some monitors with the native output (ironically with doublescan off). There is a big thread about this on the forum.
/Mike
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How the heck do I buy one of these?
I went to fpgaarcade.com and no store link.. no link to resellers, so am unsure of how to get one. Also, is a case made for one?
What's the current state the different FPGA emulators? Is there a status page of what works and what doesn't work?
Thanks!
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Check the FPGA Arcade forums for up-to-date info. My understand is they are shipping, but still in low quantities.
US reseller is Jim Drew at http://www.cbmstuff.com
It's a standard Mini-ITX board.
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Just got my first batch! I have several hundred people on a list currently, so I am going by that list. I am hoping Mike can start shipping regularly to me so we can get caught up!
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This is a joke. I talked to Mike 2 years ago, and not 1 thing he told me has happened. It's been 12 years in the making in. 12 YEARS!!!. 12 years of empty promises.
I does not take a smart Man to understand this garbage.
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Just got my first batch! I have several hundred people on a list currently, so I am going by that list. I am hoping Mike can start shipping regularly to me so we can get caught up!
1st batch of how many? Is it possible to buy one of these today if I'm not on that 12 year old list? How long do you expect several hundred orders to be filled? How can I get on this list? How long might it take to get thru the list so that I might be able to buy one and how long might that take? Just wonderin.... :)
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This is a joke. I talked to Mike 2 years ago, and not 1 thing he told me has happened. It's been 12 years in the making in. 12 YEARS!!!. 12 years of empty promises.
I does not take a smart Man to understand this garbage.
Hi.
A few points.
In the last 2 years a lot of things have happened. Volume production (2 batches) of a complex six layer board. Sourcing and supply chain. Manufacturing and production test of 200 boards. Writing and debugging of 1000s of lines of complex code.
All of this done in my free time, at my cost. If I tried to do this as a business, the cost of the boards would be 10x what they are now, maybe more.
We have a stable, working 020 AGA Amiga with 64MB and RTG. That's not bad for the last year to be honest.
How are you contributing?
/Mike
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Hi.
A few points.
In the last 2 years a lot of things have happened. Volume production (2 batches) of a complex six layer board. Sourcing and supply chain. Manufacturing and production test of 200 boards. Writing and debugging of 1000s of lines of complex code.
All of this done in my free time, at my cost. If I tried to do this as a business, the cost of the boards would be 10x what they are now, maybe more.
We have a stable, working 020 AGA Amiga with 64MB and RTG. That's not bad for the last year to be honest.
How are you contributing?
/Mike
Haters hate. While everyone wishes progress would be faster, especially MikeJ I'm sure, I for one love the product and appreciate the progress.
Thanks for all the hard work Mike! i think a lot of people are just anxious and want to be able to buy.
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Hi.
A few points.
In the last 2 years a lot of things have happened. Volume production (2 batches) of a complex six layer board. Sourcing and supply chain. Manufacturing and production test of 200 boards. Writing and debugging of 1000s of lines of complex code.
All of this done in my free time, at my cost. If I tried to do this as a business, the cost of the boards would be 10x what they are now, maybe more.
We have a stable, working 020 AGA Amiga with 64MB and RTG. That's not bad for the last year to be honest.
How are you contributing?
/Mike
You have done, and you are doing a fantastic job. I am very happy with progress. I got my FPGA Replay system back in July, after been wait-listed for almost 2 years, but I feel completely rewarded now.
I'd love to see the daughter board taking flight in 2016!
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1st batch of how many? Is it possible to buy one of these today if I'm not on that 12 year old list? How long do you expect several hundred orders to be filled? How can I get on this list? How long might it take to get thru the list so that I might be able to buy one and how long might that take? Just wonderin.... :)
I am not sure where "12 years" comes from. The further back I can find this project was almost 5 years ago. I have been involved with helping Mike for about 2 1/2 years.
The list is rather long, and I am being fair by contacting people on that list in the order that they contacted me. I expect boards to become readily available after the 1st of the year. You can get on the list automatically by going to my website and clicking on the "notify once in stock" text next to the version of the Replay board you want.
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Thanks Jim! I'm now on the list! :)
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Well, Mike has the Amiga core's cache working. Some bugs to iron out in timing, but it is looking rather promising.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20021009074052/http://www.fpgaarcade.com/
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https://web.archive.org/web/20021009074052/http://www.fpgaarcade.com/
ah nice, thanks!
The Replay board and Amiga/ST work came about 6 years after this...
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@mikej
I was just curious if you maybe considered using Apollo core (Vampire
cards of course modified) instead of real 060 daughterboard as an option
as it would make two great project finally make one.
(BTW I didn't say Natami :hammer:).
Great work anyway !
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@mikej
I was just curious if you maybe considered using Apollo core (Vampire
cards of course modified) instead of real 060 daughterboard as an option
as it would make two great project finally make one.
(BTW I didn't say Natami :hammer:).
Great work anyway !
He already answered it... he will use his own core
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I thought that was for mainboard ?
If mistaken then sorry for double question.
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I thought that was for mainboard ?
If mistaken then sorry for double question.
No also for 68k core
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I thought that was for mainboard ?
If mistaken then sorry for double question.
Cache is up and running, few more tweaks but looking very promising.
Unfortunately the Apollo core is closed source, and my aim is to get all this released completely as soon as possible. Work is continuing on my own superscaler core, we'll see how that goes....
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Definite speed boost, and I think another one is coming shortly!
RTG speed is now great, although there is still very limited blitter usage. If I can ever get some time to finish my commenting of the PicassoIV driver, I should be able to implement quite a few of the system patches to use Replay's blitter-engine.
Speed in benchmarks varies greatly - between 55% and 113% the speed of an A4000. I have a feeling that is going to just about double shortly. :)
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I added myself to the pre-order list. Got tired of trying to find an A4000 (my dream Amiga) for a decent price.
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Using the new cache core shows that Replay's Amiga core is now faster than MIST's! More speedups to come too!
http://www.fpgaarcade.com/punbb/viewtopic.php?pid=7424#p7424
Several CPU fixes have been done, and now I can actually run my PC emulator (PCx). Since there is no FPU in the 68020 core, you have to use PCsx (the FPU simulated version). It works pretty well!
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I added myself to the pre-order list. Got tired of trying to find an A4000 (my dream Amiga) for a decent price.
*cough cough* Hoarders *cough cough* :laughing:
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Hey Guys,
I think it's my first post here but hey it's never too late :)
With the help of Mike I've been able to use a physical drive on the Replay. In addition to the core changes it requires a small pcb to interface the drive and the board (thanks to Jim for the advice on the design!). I've made 2 pcb, one supporting an Amiga drive and one supporting a standard pc drive.
I've uploaded a short video where I boot a few games (+ showing some RTG in 1280x1024) here:
https://youtu.be/mByHYxP5yDw
Back in January I made a video for Mike to show the core progress, thought that could be interesting as well. Note that since then the Replay is supporting more RTG resolutions :)
https://youtu.be/crjZsIzo3Dc
There's still some problem to fix with the floppy drive but getting there :)
Cheers