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Offline IonDeluxe

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2003, 02:49:47 PM »
Could not agree with you more.
Personally I think we need more companies making a PPC based computer.
ALot of people are worried about what microsoft is doing, or at least trying to do and alot of people want something that can fulfill thier needs, but the options are not really there, except for Macs, and in Australia at least, the price for the machine is simply prohibitive, and that does not include changeover software.
Many companies/governments are looking for viable alternatives to M$ products, and not just the operating system. The license fees are also continuing to climb as M$ tries to squeeze more money out of thier monopoly.
OS4, OS/2 warp linux and morphos could fill this particular need.(as a point of intrest I was using os/2 long before win95 came out and it was great once I learned how to use it. How windows ever dominated that os is a mystery to me, but I am sure some kind of shenanigans were involved)

With this move away from windows a need will arise for a system that developers can use so the can sell thier software across multiple OS's. AMiga DE can be this solution if it can ever reach its full potential.That coupled with an OS that will purportedly be hardware agnostic is a powerful combination, but must be done in the next 2 or 3 years. Windows already is trying to push into the PPC market with such things as Windows on Mac which I saw the other day in my local chain store.

I also think the home C is morphing into the home entertainment and information center of the household.With a tv/radio tuner card I personally will no longer have any need for my seperat DVD, tv, stereo, surround sound video recorder.My PC will fullfill all thos functions, and as it is networked, can supply those needs to any portion of my home.

Amiga Inc. vision of the digital environment fits extremely well with how computer equipment is evolving in my home, and a system that exploits that evolution will be a winner with a great number of people.

What was said above is right though. Looks Count.
Not just in the OS, but in the equipment itself. The tower box needs to go, replaced with an entertainment system look, feel and ease of use.Or even if the tower is placed in its own cupboard somewhere quietly serving many interfaces around the home such as the gameboy, console, the dvd/video feed to the TV, controlling your air conditionor or whatever with built in network cabling much like normal electrical wiring is done today is really just a matter of preferance.
Computers are evolving in this direction, everyone knows it on some level, they just don't realize it. All that is left to do is for our platform to exploit and be the first there so it can set the standard while everyone else plays catch up.

Hell even Commodore realized this back in the 80/90's and that resulted in the CDTV.Too bad they were marketing dunces or they truely could have taken over the world as it were.

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Offline NicoPPC

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2003, 03:01:21 PM »
A bright future for the Amiga ?

Maybe, but only trough MorphOS

Bye
[/quote]
 

Offline Brianew

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2003, 03:03:15 PM »
1. The rise of Linux?   I can see how running Linux may be desireable and may sell more AmigaOne motherboards but I don't see how it'll sell more AmigaOS 4.  Can you expand a bit on how you see Linux promoting OS4?

2.DRM issue?  So, Micro$oft implements DRM.  Why would you not run another OS instead of OS4?  I'll give you that OS4 w/o DRM is a good thing but I think there will be many other alternative OSes out that that would be good choices too.

3. Windows pricetag becoming more expensive.  That I cannot agree with you on.  AmigaOne +OS4 are $800-$900 (US$).  When you can get a Athlon 64 3200+ + Motherboard + Windows XP Pro for $700.  So at least performance to $ ratio building the Amiga appears to be overpriced.  The only benefit you may gain is if you purchase lots of Software for the Amiga vs lots of Software for the PC the PC software is often more expensive.  However, the entry price of Windows performace/price ratio slaps the AmigaOne solution around the room.

4. I agree the 2nd computer is where you'll be seeing the Amiga market.

5. Look feel is important and once AOS4 is released we'll see how it looks and how user modifable it is. That's one of my favorite Amiga underpinnings, that I can make it look anyway I want.

I don't see AmigaOS4 as innovation but rather evolution.  It's a conversion of OS3 to PPC.  AmigaOS5 may be innovative.  Maybe you can expand on how they're being innovative.

Supporting Amiga Inc right now is hard.  They have an expensive LinuxPPC motherboard.  They claim to be shipping AOS4 someday.  They need a product.  I want an Amiga as much as the next guy.  But, I'm not going to MorphOS, I want an Amiga! If I wanted a platform to run Amiga binaries the WinXP w/ AmigaForever or UAE offers more bang for the buck then MorphOS and I need Windows to support most of the stuff I do at work so it has to be in my home.  So if Amiga Inc. doesn't succeed with OS4 there's always Amiga emulation that's more cost/price effective then MorphOS especially seeing as then I'll have 1 system instead of 2.  I'm hoping for OS4 and a price reduction.


 

Offline NicoPPC

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2003, 03:13:12 PM »
Quote

Supporting Amiga Inc right now is hard.  They have an expensive LinuxPPC motherboard.  They claim to be shipping AOS4 someday.  They need a product.  I want an Amiga as much as the next guy.  But, I'm not going to MorphOS, I want an Amiga! If I wanted a platform to run Amiga binaries the WinXP w/ AmigaForever or UAE offers more bang for the buck then MorphOS and I need Windows to support most of the stuff I do at work so it has to be in my home.  So if Amiga Inc. doesn't succeed with OS4 there's always Amiga emulation that's more cost/price effective then MorphOS especially seeing as then I'll have 1 system instead of 2.  I'm hoping for OS4 and a price reduction.


I have some difficulties to understand you opinion.

You said you want an Amiga. but what is an Amiga for you, something with the Amiga logo or something which make you feel like on an amiga when using it ?

MorphOS is the logical next step on the AmigaOS:
- PPC
- prepare for the future
- made by Amiga fan.
- Running on a PPC computer design by ex Phase5.

It's true than an high-end PC will make AmigaOS 68k running faster than on the Pegasos I, but native PPC software are really fast.
The Pegasos is that you seen to be looking: rather cheap with MorphOS to make you AmigaOS apps running.

PS: not trolling, but just talking.
Bye
 

Offline Brianew

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2003, 03:17:15 PM »
"With a tv/radio tuner card I personally will no longer have any need for my seperat DVD, tv, stereo, surround sound video recorder.My PC will fullfill all thos functions, and as it is networked, can supply those needs to any portion of my home."

Unfortuantely, a PC falls greatly short of replacing my stereo.   For the average user a PC may be able to replace some of those lower end Sony, JVC, Pioneer, etc. type of systems.  The PC has a LONG way to go to replace the higher end Marantz, McIntosh, Sunfire, Pioneer Elite, etc. market.    The rule of thumb is 2x the price is when you see performance gains within today's A/V equipment.    

Last year I replaced a JVC 8020 receiver with a Marantz SR7300ose.  The sound difference was like night and day.   This year I added a Windows Media Center edition to the mix.   The sound from MP3's isn't close to the sound from CD's or SACD's.   Unfortunately, the market has traded ease of use for reduction in quality.

As the AmigaOne system uses PCI cards same as the Windows PC.  I'm sure you'll be seeing similar sound quality issues.    I'm hoping Amiga will update the AOS4 so it can handle the latest video and audio cards on the market, which will further help OS4 catch up to the sound quality of the PC.   But, a computer based home theatre architecture has NOT come close to being able to replace my Marantz system. Someday?  Probably.  Today?  No.

 

Offline Gopal

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2003, 03:19:42 PM »
The rise of Linux is part of why I can toss my wintel stuff right away. They have the applications. I will propably be using OpenOffice, opera, mozilla and more ´till decent applications become ppc native for OS4.

The hardware Eyetech is releasing will propably be sold to linux users as well. Pushing the price for the rest of us. The microA1 will be the perfect match for those who build presentation systems for airports, ATMs and so on.

The topic is the rise of amiga, not amigaOS. And the linux saga will help buyers understand there is alternatives out there.

Edit:

I admit that there might not be much room for inovation over at Hyperion right now, it´s pretty much clean up the mess, and port it to PPC.
But their code is the real and legendary Commodore AmigaOS source code man.

I hope the "earlybird" days are over soon, and we get to see microA1 with a decent price.
retronerd.net
 

Offline ruben

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2003, 03:45:47 PM »
Frankly, I have a hard time understanding the reason for the amount of negativity that flows in this community.
What are you expecting? That the entire world would stop using Windows the day that a new Amiga is anounced? That all of the sudden, there is a gigantic flow of software available for your AmigaOne or Pegasos?

I think that there are reasons to be happy today, and even more in the future. These are not the days of Escom's or Gateway's vapour promises anymore. The products are here. The community is here. The developers are here. Sure, it's all at a very small scale right now, but we have to start somewhere, don't we? Building a platform takes time.

This is a great time for alternative computing. We're not going to see major innovations from the main players during the next few years. Take Longhorn for instance: delayed until 2006 and we know that basically it will be little more than a cosmetic improvement over XP with a few security issues fixed. Linux? Maybe support for some more hardware and make it less hard to use. Hardware? Just some more Mhz and even bigger/noisier cooling. So, there is plenty of time now to evolve an alternative platform to a point that, feature-wise, will be very close to the main players.

So, to answer to initial question: There is a bright future for Alternative Computing. It's already starting. In my opinion you have 3 choices:

1. Just use Windows/Linux/Mac all the time and ignore the whole thing.

2. Sit on your arse all day posting at Amiga.org and ann.lu about how depressing the whole thing is, that Windows has so many things that we don't, that people that bought a Pegasos or A1 and are having real fun playing with it must be really stupid.

3. Support your favourite platform in whatever way you can and have fun in the process, knowing that you are part of this effort to create an alternative, fun, computing platform.

I clearly chose option 3.


Ruben Monteiro
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Offline Brianew

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2003, 03:49:44 PM »
Quote

NicoPPC wrote:

You said you want an Amiga. but what is an Amiga for you, something with the Amiga logo or something which make you feel like on an amiga when using it ?

MorphOS is the logical next step on the AmigaOS:
- PPC
- prepare for the future
- made by Amiga fan.
- Running on a PPC computer design by ex Phase5.

It's true than an high-end PC will make AmigaOS 68k running faster than on the Pegasos I, but native PPC software are really fast.
The Pegasos is that you seen to be looking: rather cheap with MorphOS to make you AmigaOS apps running.

PS: not trolling, but just talking.
Bye


Nico,
     Once AmigaOS4 PPC software comes out will MorphOS be able to run them?  I'm doubtful that this will be the case.   I'd be interested in a lower cost PPC hardware, perhaps Pegasos-II, running AOS4.
 
   But, if I want the look and feel of an Amiga, but can't have an Amiga, why would I choose MorphOS over AmigaForever?   Especially if AmigaForever runs the same software and faster?  Sure it's not PPC but I don't care I get more performance and a much greater performance/$ so what's the overriding factor to choose MorphOS?

    I have 1 need and 1 want.  The need is a Win XP machine, I'm a systems engineer and work on 80% Windows and 20% Solaris.  The want is an Amiga, because that's the OS I like the best.

   Considering your definitions:
MorphOS PPC -- So is AOS4.
MorphOS preparing for the future --- questionable if it'll be able to run OS4.x PPC software any better then OS4 will.
MorphOS made by an Amiga fan -- great they felt left out by Amiga and did it their way.  Good for them.
MorphOS PPC design by exPhase5 -- fine it doesn't matter to me if the hardware is exPhase5 or some other company.  

   So if I limit myself to the two options you provided:
Amiga Logo OR Look feel via MorphOS.   I'd have to pick the Amiga Logo.    I already have look feel it's AmigaForever running software quicker then MorphOS.
 

Offline Tomas

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2003, 03:57:55 PM »
Quote
How many will be prepared to spit out >1000Euro (full sys) ?

Lets hope that the lite/micro one will be cheaper...
 

Offline dammy

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2003, 03:58:31 PM »
by Gopal on 2003/10/26 10:19:42

Quote
The rise of Linux is part of why I can toss my wintel stuff right away. They have the applications. I will propably be using OpenOffice, opera, mozilla and more ´till decent applications become ppc native for OS4.


But what is the driving force for Linux users to go PPC?  Going for a A1 G4 1GHz or ~$920 USD for a MSI mobo with dual 240s? Somehow, I think the Linux geeks are going to be coughing up the $920 for dual Opteron combo, and not the A1.

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Offline dammy

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2003, 04:01:14 PM »
by ruben on 2003/10/26 10:45:47

Quote
So, to answer to initial question: There is a bright future for Alternative Computing. It's already starting. In my opinion you have 3 choices:

1. Just use Windows/Linux/Mac all the time and ignore the whole thing.

2. Sit on your arse all day posting at Amiga.org and ann.lu about how depressing the whole thing is, that Windows has so many things that we don't, that people that bought a Pegasos or A1 and are having real fun playing with it must be really stupid.

3. Support your favourite platform in whatever way you can and have fun in the process, knowing that you are part of this effort to create an alternative, fun, computing platform.

I clearly chose option 3.


4. Run AROS on  your favorite demon x86 and have fun. =)

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Offline Tomas

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2003, 04:03:27 PM »
Quote
Maybe, but only trough MorphOS

I say it again... MorphOS/Pegasos has nothing at all to do with amiga, other than the fact that it runs some Amiga software... MorphOS is a different os, though very similar at the same time. AmigaONE/AmigaOS4 is more amiga than pegasos/morphos will ever be.... unless genesi manage to buy out AmigaINC that is..

 

Offline dammy

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2003, 04:04:20 PM »
by Brianew on 2003/10/26 10:49:44
Quote
I have 1 need and 1 want. The need is a Win XP machine, I'm a systems engineer and work on 80% Windows and 20% Solaris. The want is an Amiga, because that's the OS I like the best.


Would the ability to dual/tri boot your x86 with AROS change your mind?

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Offline Tomas

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2003, 04:07:15 PM »
Quote
Supporting Amiga Inc right now is hard. They have an expensive LinuxPPC motherboard. They claim to be shipping AOS4 someday. They need a product. I want an Amiga as much as the next guy.

just hold on a little more  ;-)  OS4 will be released very soon now, i am sure of it  :-)  afaik there is only minor porting left, until it is "finished"
 

Offline Brianew

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2003, 04:15:51 PM »
Quote

dammy wrote:
by Brianew on 2003/10/26 10:49:44
Quote
I have 1 need and 1 want. The need is a Win XP machine, I'm a systems engineer and work on 80% Windows and 20% Solaris. The want is an Amiga, because that's the OS I like the best.


Would the ability to dual/tri boot your x86 with AROS change your mind?

Dammy


Dual boot or Tri boot?  I might do it.  I tried it for a while with Amithlon and Win2k and once I built the current hardware I settled to just a single boot WinXP with AmigaForever.  

AmigaForever proved to be a better solution for me.  Here's a couple of examples. At the time I was upgrading hardware Amithlon didn't have a Nforce2 chipset version so I wouldn't be able to run Amithlon on the motherboard.  At the time I was upgrading Amithlon didn't have drivers for the Nvidia Geforce4TI 4200.  So, while I wanted a newer video card Amithlon wouldn't be able to use the extra video performance.  AmigaForever made it such that the issues weren't a worry.

I haven't been following AROS much.  But, if I can freely replace x86 hardware without long periods of waiting for drivers to be updated or worse no driver updates, such as the Geforce4, it might be an option.
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: A bright future for Amiga?
« Reply #29 from previous page: October 26, 2003, 04:27:41 PM »
Quote

restore2003 wrote:
The rumours of OS4.0 and A1 has spread cross the internet, more and more lost Amiga users keep coming back, the memberlist of amiga.org and other sites keep growing, and everybody`s expectations are at highest level....

Has the snowball just started to roll?


This is what the world thinks everytime Amiga cries wolf....

http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99aug/19990829.html
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