WOASE? if and when?

[whoosh777]

The WOASE show (World of Amiga South Essex (or is it South England?)),

is it happening this year?

If so, when?

Same place as last year?
(Shenfield I think, just beyond the outermost travel zone of London),

Last year it was around end of October,
ie this time of year, which is why I am asking,


Eyetech announced their Earlybird there, a year has passed and
no OS4, so really it was a Prematurebird,


Have you done your bit to help the Linux community?

could Hyperion release either OS4 there??
someone told me one of the Fridens said
PPC-OS4 would be released 23rd September 2003,
it wasnt,

a dillar a dollar a ten o'clock scholar,

though they did show OS4 booting on an A1
at Pianeta (I think) which was more important IMO,


I tried google with "WOASE 2003", read through all the results
including the coincidences and found no information,

are there any other UK shows?

will A1-OS4 ever be shown in any shape or form in the UK?

they are showing the A1-lite in Australia so how about  
here where Eyetech is based?

a lot of people turned up to WOASE last year so they dont have any
excuses for giving up hope,

[Ryu]

Im quite sure there isnt going to be a WoAse this year :-(. However it does look as if a show of sorts will happen. You might want to check out a thread over on amigaworld.net... http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1764&forum=4

[Cyberus]

so really it was a Prematurebird,

 :-D

[whoosh777]

Ryu said:

>I am quite sure there isnt going to be a WoAse this year.

a pity,


>However it does look as
>if a show of sorts will happen. You might want to check out a thread over on
>amigaworld.net...
>http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1764&forum=4

ok, I've just visited this thread,

Is it possible for you to cut and paste my reply to there?

Bath would be very convenient for me,
preferably in November as December usually gets quite hectic

If and when they finalize the meeting could you ask them to
publicise it on the main forums eg here, ann.lu, www.amiga.com?

2 things would be of interest for me:

1. Seeing OS4 on A1,
2. AmigaOneLite,

If a lot of people oppose Bath, how about using WOASE's venue!
maybe meeting in Bath could be WOASW?

BTW for people trying to get to the South West eg Bath,

the rail system in this part of the country is very tricky
regarding prices, eg if you ask for a return ticket they
may try to sell you a month return which can be very expensive.

I once tried buying a cross country return ticket to the South West
and was told £25,
however I knew that a return to somewhere nearby was £10 so I argued
this and the clerk checked up and found there was possibly a
"cheap day return" ticket approx. £10, the £25 ticket was something like
a month return which BTW is more expensive than buying 2 single tickets!

Many people get wrong footed by British Rails pricing, also dont trust their
suggested route, instead buy the national time table and plan the route
yourself, this can save a lot of money:

I once wanted to travel to Northampton and was told I had to take Virgin
trains up to Warwick or somewhere and then take another train from there,
total price well over £40. I gave up and took a bus to Luton? followed by
train from there, but on the return I missed the last bus.
So took a train and thereby found that there is a
much better + cheaper route via London. :London to Bedford, possibly from
King's Cross and then another train on from there.

If you buy your ticket some  weeks in advance you may be able to get
an "Apex" ticket which can be considerably cheaper.

:again they are tricky in that they will tell you that you have to go
on a very specific train. This again is not totally true, what it is
is that you need to catch the specific train to have a booked seat,
no problem using other trains just no booked seat.

Anyway, moral of the story is that the rail system will try to sell
you the most expensive way of getting from A to B, so dont trust them,
someone mentioned £63 in that thread, study a rail map and figure out
your own route and ask the prices of the individual stages.

:the rail prices are supposed to add up, ie
price(A to B) + price(B to C) == price( A to C via B)

:this wasnt always so in the past, but I believe is now true.

Here are 2 further tricks:

1. If you want to go from A to B, study how much it will cost you
to go A to London to B, : travelling via London is often cheaper!
(even when it doesnt make geometrical sense), (with British Rail
the triangle inequality doesnt hold!)

2. If you travel via London, find cost of:

a. return from A to London with travel card
b. return from *boundary* of London to B,

the price of a. + b. is often cheaper than return from A to B,
(regardless of whether you go via London)
with the bonus that you get one days unlimited travel in London.

A carefully chosen return from London to Bath a year ago was less than £18 ISTR,
I am sure they have Apex for this particular route,
you can get from Birmingham to Londons Victoria coach station
by coach probably for less than £10.
These prices and places are all from memory so I may be wrong,

I have here a leaflet from last year, various categories of special
tickets: apex, superadvance, supersaver, saver, group travel discounts
of 25% etc,

Make sure to ask the price of a "cheap day return" which is totally
unconnected to a "return". Generally speaking you never want a return-ticket,
but instead want either a cheap-day-return or apex or supersaver etc,

return tickets have been designed to catch the unwary!

(depends also how cynical the clerk is as well),

(return tickets often being more expensive than 2 cheap day return tickets!)

For people travelling by Coach, (Bath has a major coach station next door to
the rail station) make sure to find the time of the last coach otherwise
you will get stranded and have to take a train anyway!

Bath is a very touristy place so its well organised for staying the night,
its worth going on the open topped green+yellow double decker tourist coach tour,

[Ryu]

concider it done... I'll post the whole comment if thats okay with you...

[whoosh777]

Ryu said:

>         concider it done... I'll post the whole comment if thats okay with
>you...

thats fine!

I'm not currently a member of amigaworld.net, I will join eventually
 at the moment I visit the site on a read only non-member basis,

BTW I have been looking at a leaflet for rail prices from last year:

Apex has to be booked 7 days in advance, buying earlier than 7 days is
advised because they could run out of tickets!

an approximate comparison of prices for a specific journey from last year:

Open return:  approx £80,  buy anytime, travel anytime, return within 1 month
Saver:        approx £40,  buy anytime, some limits on time
supersaver    approx £35,  buy anytime, further limits on time than saver
superadvance  approx £25,  buy by 1800 day b4 outward travel, outward + return
                                              have to be specified,
Apex          approx £20,  buy by 1800 7 days b4 outward, return + outward specified,

as you can see the Apex return is 1/4 the price of the open return,

Apex isnt available for all journeys but I think it must be available for
London to Bath,

London to Bath will probably be on First Great Western railways,
(trains with green and white stripes, sometimes also fantastic dark bluish
purple trains, adelante fleet?,)
(descended probably from Isambard Kingdom Brunels Great Western Railway
GWR a.k.a Gods Wonderful Railway!) FGW are quite stingy eg no equivalent of
Network South East Card, at certain times of the day FGW wont allow you
on their trains if you have a concession ticket, eg you cannot travel
on FGW from London to Reading at rush hour.

Be prepared for a lot of tricks from the railway system,
different parts of the country play different tricks on the passengers

eg being told to wait for nonexisting trains, also some of the trains on the
TV monitors dont exist, they are "vapour" trains which get "cancelled"
5 minutes before they arrive. So always get on the first train in the
right direction.

Reading station at rush hour the
announcers play tricks on the passengers en masse, usually
changing platform number, so 200 passengers go trundling through
the tunnel. Then 10 minutes later they revert the platform so 200
passengers return through tunnel. Then a train arrives but announcer
says: "do not board train on platform 7". In fact it is the correct
train and you should board it.

Once trying to go to London from some station I thought I had got on a train to
London's Liverpool Street station, in fact I had got on a train
to Liverpool Lime Street station!

:it was in the same position as the usual London Liverpool Street train,

Another time I ended up in Southampton by mistake by getting on the
wrong train at the correct time on the correct platform,

[Ryu]

this might sound cheeky, but would/could you find me the cheapest train route possible from skittyhorpe to bath please? :-)

[whoosh777]

Ryu asked:

>this might sound cheeky, but would/could you find me the cheapest
>train route possible from skittyhorpe to bath please?

certainly!

It will be an interesting challenge!

I will see if I can find out perhaps by Tuesday (possibly earlier),
to figure it out there is various extra information that I need.
I will try to get this information next time I go into town.



It takes a bit of time to gather enough information on which to
figure it out,

Its possible that the cheapest way may be a combination of train
and coach, this I will try to determine.

I will post what I find out in this thread, however it will take a few
days before its possible for me to post it.

You know a few years ago there was an impressive eclipse, and to
see it properly the best place was "Lizard" in Cornwall.
(If you look at a map of England you will see that Lizard is the most southerly
point of the UK mainland, just below 50°)
Alternatively you had to go to France. I visited the channel tunnel train
people but the ticket to France was going to be very expensive.

The coach station had sold out all relevant tickets, so
I then went to the relevant mainline station and was told London to Cornwall
would be £50 return, I wasnt aware of what I know know so I gave up and
watched the eclipse from London.

If I had known what I know now perhaps I would have got to Cornwall and
seen the total eclipse properly instead I watched an almost total eclipse
from London.

[whoosh777]

The cheapest price I have found appears to be £28 without any
concession card, I had to do some
time travel to get this! (:its not released yet),
this breaks up into two £14 tickets,
so you may just about be able to do everything in 1 day.

A concession card could save you 33% ie £18.67 return Skittyhorpe to
Bath, you have to be sufficiently young though or sufficiently old, or a student.


Not only is it the cheapest but I think it is also the fastest + most
geometrically direct.

(official National Express advance return Skittyhorpe to Bath is
£47.50 and takes 10:25 hours leave at 915am arrive at Bath 740pm,
instead of 5:15 hours by Virgin, official Rail journey is £62,)

These tickets arent even released yet but I have been told that
you should be able to buy them from Monday onwards, so if you
want to take this path, phone ASAP on Monday. The tickets have to
be ordered 14 days in advance but are *not* APEX (I think).

This is the journey, I have been told the prices + times hold for
every day of the week Monday to Sunday,

Skittyhorpe 759am departure, (there is a later + slower train which is also ok),
Doncaster  828am arrival,

Virgin Trains direct from Doncaster to Bristol Temple Meads:

Leaves Doncaster 917am,
arrives Bristol Temple Meads 1245pm (this is unbelievably fast and early),

There are zillions of trains from Brisol Temple Meads to Bath Spa,
eg 1 at 1258pm arrives at Bath Spa 114pm, trains to Bath could be
from almost any platform, direct ones take 11minutes to reach
Bath,

This total journey Skittyhorpe to Bath spa is £14 (each way), the cheapness is
thanks to Virgin Trains and *not* to GNER.

The return journey is
Bath Spa 1818,
Bristol Temple Meads 1835,

(you could also risk leaving Bath at 1829, arrive Bristol 1846)

Virgin trains
Bristol Temple Meads 1858
Doncaster 2211,

and it appears that from Doncaster 2230 a train that arrives in
Skittyhorpe 2310, verify this last journey is correct,


So it all depends on the times of the Amiga meeting,

you may need to spend the night in Bath. IMO it would be best
to spend the night in Bath eg in a bed and breakfast place
and do some sight seeing on Sunday: eg double decker tour
or see the Roman Baths (hence the name Bath Spa).

The university appears to be a major distance from the
station way out in the countryside so you may need a taxi.

For information avoid phoning GNER because they will tell
you there is no APEX (true) and that the cheapest way is £62 (false).

Instead you will only get sensible info if you phone
Virgin Trains on 08457 222 333, the initial part of the
call is voice recognition!

Underline the fact that it is a direct Virgin Trains train
from Doncaster to Bristol, stating the times in both directions for
the Virgin Trains part of the journey  
and that it is £14 both ways for the total journey between Skittyhorpe and Bath.
Also that the Skittyhorpe to Doncaster and Bristol to Bath parts of
the journey are not on Virgin trains.

Before finding this info, the lowest I found was £33,
this info may be useful for people in other parts of the country,
it is based around the fact that there is an ultra cheap Virgin Trains
ticket between Birmingham and Bath via Bristol Temple Meads.

Again the cheapness is due to a Virgin Train connection
between Birmingham and Bristol Temple Meads.

:assuming I understood correctly it is an APEX single ticket
£7.50 between Birmingham and Bath. So the return journey is £15,
which is unbelievably low,

Secondly National Express coaches appears to be based in Birmingham
so National Express to Birmingham is generally very cheap, eg
£18 return Skittyhorpe to Birmingham if you avoid Fridays.

(£18 + 7.50 + 7.50 == £33 which was my earlier best possible fare),

For info on coach journeys by National Express visit:

http://www.nationalexpress.com/enq/enq.cfm

and type in start and destination etc,


they also do £1 tickets to and from London from several big cities,
it seems just 1 outward journey for £1 to London eg one I looked up was
615am from Sheffield, and just 1 return journey eg 8pm to Sheffield,

some are also £6 and £3,

:these could be high risk because they may sell out very rapidly,
also they may constrain your time,


Anyway for a less risky path people in other parts of the North should
look into an APEX National Express return to Birmingham
via the above web-link and then the above Apex £15 "return" (2 singles)
between Birmingham New Street and Bath Spa via Bristol Temple Meads
(as compared to Bristol Parkway). I have been told it is a 10 minute walk
from Birmingham Digbeth coach station to Birmingham New Street rail station.

There is a stand-off between road and rail people so ask the coach company
for how to get to the coach station and ask the rail people how you
get to the rail station, not the other way round!

Book immediately even though technically you only need 7 days in advance
for APEX, and 14 days in advance for the above Skittyhorpe to Bath.

Phone from Monday onwards for the Skittyhorpe to Bath journey,

[Ryu]

thanks very much :-) now i'll read it a few times until I understand it... :-) If I see you there I'll buy you a drink.

[Mike_Amiga]

Testing, testing.... can I post from Camino? :-D

*edit*

Yay, looks like Safari can kiss it's own ass goodbye, IE too! :-P

[whoosh777]

Ryu said:

>thanks very much now i'll read it a few times until I understand it...

the problem in its entirety is logistically quite complex,
really the plan should begin around the Amiga meetings times,
and then create the plan outwards from this,
ie not necessarily the specific times I gave,

I think returning on Sunday and not on the last train is worth
thinking about: it will simplify the planning, even setting off on
Friday makes sense but will add to the cost,
accomodation can get booked up at weekends so its worth
finding a place long in advance,

Bath is a fantastic place to visit as a tourist, so it makes sense
to use the opportunity, not the best time of year for it though
(cold + the sun sets very early),

For touristing staying at the university is also not the best idea
as it is quite remote. You want to stay somewhere near the city centre
for touristing, the university appears to be 4 miles from
the station, so if you walk at the standard speed of 4mph
it will take an hour to walk.

regarding getting to and from the university,
if you have plenty of time on arriving at Bath the coach station
is just across the road from the railway station
beyond some buildings so you could enquire there about
getting to the university, (I think the coach station is also the
bus terminal). It may be worth phoning the university and enquiring
about how to get to and from it. The Bath Amigans may of course
arrange transport,

verify anyway all the times just in case I made an error,
the number for all train times for all train companies is 08457 48 49 50,

for ordering this specific ticket only use 08457 222 333,

Figuring out this journey was a very strange problem because the journey
I found flouts all the suggestions I gave in the earlier postings
eg I said going via London can be faster + cheaper, and that the best
route often doesnt make geometrical sense, this journey isnt via London
and does make geometrical sense!

I have studied now the national timetable and the times on Sunday are
slightly different (see below),

The times I gave in the earlier posting are the earliest outward and the
latest return, so you could of course set off later and return earlier:

the next 3 direct trains from *Doncaster* to *Bristol* on Saturday appear to be:

leave arrive
1114  1445,
1308  1641,
1509  1846,

(ie approximately every 2 hours,)

again reverify everything directly by phone,

The times I gave in the earlier posting are the times for doing everything
on Saturday with maximum time at Bath.

On Sunday various times are different from the earlier posting which
refers to Saturday,

Sunday:

Bath to Bristol:
instead of 1829 to 1846 its
1832 to 1846
(1818 to 1835 is same for Sunday and Saturday),

Bristol to Doncaster leaves earlier at 1854 arrives 22:14

Doncaster to Skittyhorpe: leaves at 23:11 arrives 23:39

(these times are relevant for making the last train back on Sunday),

Ask Virgin Trains what happens if you travel at a different time  
from what you booked: not allowed or you may have to stand?
(they probably have their own rules, with some train companies I know
you can travel at other times, but dont assume this without being told it
by a railway employee),


Mike_Amiga said:

>Testing, testing.... can I post from Camino?
>*edit*
 
>Yay, looks like Safari can kiss it's own ass goodbye, IE too!

no idea what this was about but that is a surreal avatar!

[whoosh777]

One last trick on this topic,

for accomodation at Bath or anywhere else try:

www.yell.com and type "Guest Houses" and the
place name eg "Bath" (without the quotation marks),

this is the yellow pages website, and it found 60
places for Bath. So I think this will find
*all* Bed and Breakfasts, the problem with eg tourist
brochures is that you may not find the cheaper places as
they cant afford the advert.

"Guest Houses" is the topic under which Bed and
Breakfast's are classified by the yellow pages.

Anyway you have a lot of phoning to do if you go down this
path. When you phone ask if the people know any ultra cheap
place, I once found a place for £16 by such a referral.

Likewise get eg Tourist information and other numbers thus,

Yellow pages sometimes doesnt have a topic where you expect it,
so you have to look at your local yellow pages directory and
figure out what its classified under, eg they have a cross-index
right at the back of the directory which is how I found that
"Bed & Breakfasts"
are under "Guest Houses"

Long ago youth hostels provided very cheap accomodation, but these
days they seem to have become too commercialised and are more expensive
than the cheapest Bed and Breakfasts. Note that if you ask not to
have the breakfast they may charge you less, just buy a snack from a
health food store: cheapest way to get food, five times cheaper than
junk food outlets. B&B's usually provide free coffee + sugar sachets
in a basket.

Thomsons directorys website is www.thomweb.co.uk,
but I havent tried this out,

If you want free travel + accomodation, buy a bicycle and a tent!