Re: Future AmigaOS GUI

[djnick]

It looks fantastic! It is obvious Amiga does not
have talented artists & designers so new OS4
looks how it looks [like a toy to me, sorry].

SimoAmi's example is how OS4 should look to make
attention from serious world.

In a toyland it looks "great"... but it is not
how real world work

Yes, latest OS4 looks way better than horrible
OS4 previews we saw at first, but it is still
far away how it should look today to make attention...

I'm sorry to say but MorphOS has more talented
artists than AmigaINC. If I'd be AmigaInc, first
thing I'd do would be - hiring SimoAMI to do some
serous stuff for OS4!

djnick [djnick.org]

[Rodney]

Well, i dont mind the OS4 look. Although the brush metal look doesnt fancy me. They couldhave kept it a bit simplier...

SimoAmis concept is brilliant, although, its not simple enough. I think its great but SimoAmis concept goes deeper then just a GUI, it also questions the functionality of AmigaOS (HTML rendering shell?)...

I think the best thing Simo can do is to turn that beutiful concept into a skin. And also, creat some icons. Simos concept is great, i'd use it, but i wouldnt have picked it for a default GUI.

Basicly, i think the concept is alittle too good . Too pretty and very colourful and that puts a lot of people off. I think a very simple interface is what AmigaOSneeds. And they got it.

Simo, you must turn itinto a skin. And you must creat some icons.  I'd be a very very very popular skin and icon set. Many people are going to want to change the GUI as soon as they get their OS4. Yours as i see it, would be the number one option Go for it dude!

[teo]

as ive hinted at in the other thread a new simpler design of the gui is needed, what i have put forward is not revolutionary but i do believe there are a couple of pearler ideas in there (like the super gadget) It would at least help us stand out as superior to the existing os's

we need to get together a list of good giu ideas and send it off.

[kolla]

"Turn it into a skin"?

OS4 does not support "skins"

What it does support is "themes" of icons, colours and gadgets and bitmaps.

If it was "skins" then different skins would be able to place the gadgets on different locations, replace entire GUI layouts and so forth.

Also, the scope of this concept picture goes beyond the "look", and I doubt that was done unintentionally. It shows functionality that should very well be avaible. Applets for the the screen bar, status bar in a WB window and the output renderer for  the shell (well, OS4 _does_ have an xml parser buildt in now, right? Why not put it to use?  :-D )

[Rodney]

kolla wrote:
"Turn it into a skin"?

OS4 does not support "skins"

What it does support is "themes" of icons, colours and gadgets and bitmaps.

If it was "skins" then different skins would be able to place the gadgets on different locations, replace entire GUI layouts and so forth.

Ok, so i got my meanings mixed up... shesh!

I think you knew what i ment anyway!!! Ie make them into themes and icon sets!!!

Also, the scope of this concept picture goes beyond the "look", and I doubt that was done unintentionally. It shows functionality that should very well be avaible.

Yes, Simo pointed this out earlier

Applets for the the screen bar, status bar in a WB window and the output renderer for  the shell (well, OS4 _does_ have an xml parser buildt in now, right? Why not put it to use?  :-D )

An XML parser is not a render. You'd need an HTML engine or something equivilent to do it. Or something much heavier then a parser. XML by its self is just data.

I'd suggest to have an HTML render that supports XML-XSL and CSS and allows the programer to define an XML document and an XSL OR CSS style sheet to accompany it.  so i can render the output of the program. But then again, thats what we have a GUI for isnt it ...

Once again, some themes and icons sets would be great!!!

[Rogue]

SimoAmi's example is how OS4 should look to make
attention from serious world.

I disagree (no surprise I guess :-) )

Don't get me wrong, I love SimoAmi's stuff. I disliked the way that buttons look when pressed (there is not enough optical clue IMO), but things like that could be tuned. However, it was important that it still was looking somewhat like Intuition - and I think that is what the new look does.

If people fancy a more fancy theme, they can use that, but first and foremost a GUI should be functional.

[mikeymike]

I don't know this for a fact, but I'm sure it must annoy the hell out of programmers when people suggest "why not use XML" when they haven't the faintest idea if it's any good for the job.

In the club amiga monthly (I think, it was somewhere 'official' anyway) it was said that a designer had the task of creating the default theme for OS4, and they quite rightly wouldn't divulge his identity... because they want him to remain sane, have an email mailbox that isn't crammed full of Amiga zealots saying they should 'do it like this', and provide screenshots that include as many OS ripoffs as possible!

[KPK]

Simple is the keyword.

An OS can be made look like a slot-machine at a casino but I prefer it to look like raw building material.

I will add the flashing lights and the crayon colours if I like it that way or keep it sleek and fast without annoyances.

[NewRevolution]

I like what SimoAmi has done. He has put a lot of effort into it, which is good. We need people like that!

This topic has caught my attention because this has a lot to do with usability and accessibility, as teotwin and Rodney has touched on.
Human Computer Interaction (HCI) and Usability Engineering are two important areas of knowledge / skill when it comes to designing interface and it's functionality. It's no good to have an interface that is revolutionary when the functionality of it sucks.
 
When designing an interface, we have to keep in mind:
1) What makes it usable?
2) What makes it accessible?
3) Is it logical? You might think so, but how about ppl with little or no computer skills?

I must admit, I have been away from Amiga for a while, and I'm not as up to date with what is happening on the Amiga front. But I'm trying to catch up :-)

Looking at SimoAmis' work, the first thing that strikes me, is the similarity to Linux/Unix. I guess that's because the new Amiga OS is based on a Linux kernel?

I think it's time to lift Amiga GUI up to another level. Think new - think different!
Take a look at the GUIs already out there. How have they done it? How can we make it different, but still similar?
Why use drawers when other systems use folders? It's more natural for a user to "think" that files are stored in folders, rather than drawers (although I found the drawers quite charming)

Microsoft conducted some serious usability testing shifting from Windows 3.11 to Win95 and I read a quite interesting article about thatt, which can be found HERE

How can Amiga once again attract new users?
Approaching a new OS is taunting for a lot of users. But if the users can identify Amiga GUI with e.g. Windows GUI or Mac GUI, they will feel more at ease using it.

I would love to conduct some usability tests on a new Amiga GUI - it would make an interesting project. So SimoAmi, if you want to improve your concept, send me a msg.

I'm about to finish my Master of IT here in Australia - but the job opportunities back home in Norway looks rather bad. So I think I'll have a lot of time on my hands :-D


Phu - that was it for now. I could write heaps more... But I'll save it for later!

[alx]

I like what SimoAmi has done. He has put a lot of effort into it, which is good. We need people like that!

Agreed :-D

Looking at SimoAmis' work, the first thing that strikes me, is the similarity to Linux/Unix. I guess that's because the new Amiga OS is based on a Linux kernel?

No, no, no :-o  ;-)  It's based on the original AmigaOS, greatly enhanced.  Which is why the actual scheme has similar gadgets/colours.

How can we make it different, but still similar?

That's something that really excites me - the Workbench is going to get a complete overhaul soon (not just the look).  What I want is something unique, but very usable.  I personally don't want to end up with something like KDE, which is really good, but at the end of the day a copy of windows.

BTW that win95 link is interesting.

And welcome to A.org :-D

[The_Editor]

Interesting thoughts NewRevolution.

btw ...Welcome to Amiga.Org.

[NewRevolution]

Thnx guys.

It was about time to arise from the *dead*  :-D

Alongside the usual programming and system development stuff, I've tuned in on the UE and HCI "main stream". Quite interesting. The real challenge is to convince organization, that there is money to be saved on performing usability studies. Changing requirements early in development, migh add a cost from 1 to 6 times. Changing system in the User Acceptance level (when the system is 99% finished) can cost around 100 times the cost of redesign.

And this brings me to the new OS 4 look.
I must admit chills went down my spine when I first looked at the review Amiga OS 4 GUI Preview. Then today I looked at the other links and found the Improvement (AmiDocs).
What is http://os.amiga.com/? Is this a official site for Amiga Inc? And what is AmiDocs?
The basic GUI for Amiga OS should be plain as cheese! Umm... u know what I mean ;-)
Then, if users want to ruin their GUIs with horrible skins, then let them do it.

But for the CORE of the GUI, it should be very simple, plain - but still have a touch of contemporary times. By that I mean 3D icons with shading, simple fonts, and forgett about all that "iron" brush backgrounds. Having a "noisy" background does not enhance the GUI at all. And use icons with good  metaphores. SimoAmi has e VERY good screenshot of a directory tree in this discussion.

In the same discussion, xisp comes with some very good points.

It's time to crawl out of the 'Amiga OS 3.x look' hole, and smells todays mainstream. What makes GUIs popular today? It's certanly not by enhancing old looks. It's RE-INVENTING new design based on old GUI.

And face the facts. I'm pretty sure no matter how much we work on a new design, it will still be similar to Windows, Mac and Linux/Unix GUI.

I have some ideas to new concepts that I learned in Usability Engineering class (yaiks.. - school :-D). I will talk to the convener and see if I can get a hold of the images.

Btw. The_Editor, are u from Western Australia?

[KingTutt]

I think that the OS4 screens we are seeing from Hyperion are acceptable, for now. Sure its no MacOSX, but who cares. As long as the usability is there, the UI is secondary.

I'm sure the guys at Hyperion will have plenty of time to do alot of UI manipulation and changing before the next couple of revisions ship. (v4.1, 4.2)

Until then, lets just pat the Hyperion team on the back for doing the impossible : Bringing back our beloved OS to the forefront. An achievement in itself.

We should look at this, as an intermediatory measure. This is our windows 95/98 people. We have been out of a major revision to AmigaOS for years, you can't expect Amiga to rival MacOSX or XP from the word go now do you? The kind of UI and functionality you guys want is something requiring a whole API system overhaul. Lets give them v4.2 and 4.5 before we cry blue murder. Besides by the time that happens, we'll all be too excited with the prospects of AmigaOS5, being on the same level as Windows Longhorn. Which is touted for an early 2006 release. Longhorn, will boast a full 3D accelerated UI, as will OS5 by that time.

From then on, Amiga will find itself on a more level playing field. Lets just hope Amiga's in for keeps this time round!