Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: TheBilgeRat on January 11, 2011, 08:38:49 AM
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http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_Amiga.aspx
Sorry if it has been brought up recently, but...seriously.
WTF mayn.
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http://www.karmadigital.com/tf5_htpc_home_theatre_pc_case.html
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http://www.ubuntu.com
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http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_Amiga.aspx
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http://www.karmadigital.com/tf5_htpc_home_theatre_pc_case.html
http://www.ubuntu.com
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_Amiga.aspx
Hmmm. As much as purists will cry about it, at least they're doing SOMETHING with the brand, unlike some companies I can name :)
Wayne
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They're doing something to the BRAND, but that's all.
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They're doing something to the BRAND, but that's all.
Like I said, the same people who bitched because Amiga Inc didn't actually do anything will now bitch because CommodoreUSA is doing something.
No, it's not rebuilding the precious dead platform, but does anyone reading this thread REALLY think technology that was dead-ended 16 years ago is worth trying to revive? I say that we should just enjoy our "classic" platform, or even indulge in one of the new flavors if you really think it worth the aggravation of buggy software and "paying extreme amounts for beta-level hardware", but let's stop deluding ourselves about "the future of the Amiga", shall we?
Wayne
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but let's stop deluding ourselves about "the future of the Amiga", shall we?
I'm not saying that I wouldn't LOVE to get ahold of an "Amiga on a Joystick" type thing, if I could just convince Jeri to get off her proverbial butt and make one, but I'm not delusional enough to expect the next revolutionary platform to have an Amiga sticker on it.
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Well with minimig and FPGAArcage board, things are not that far away. Lets see how long before somone jumps in with Natami as well :)
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Like I said, the same people who bitched because Amiga Inc didn't actually do anything will now bitch because CommodoreUSA is doing something.
Wayne
Hey Wayne.. You are absolutely right! I thought the same thing. I can believe the way some amiga people have come out against Commodore usa. I think its pretty cool, and its nice to see movement in the brand! These Fanboys should be happy, but they never are..
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Oh no , this thread will soon go into , stolen artwork, stolen websites, lying about budgets, not releasing anything etc etc.
Sounds like Amiga Inc to me :)
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What really has me worried is the banner on this: www.commodore-amiga.org/index.php (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/index.php) :eek:
I looked at it for 30 seconds wondering why Amiga.org would be a part of this and then i got it. We're not. It's a bit creepy copying another Amiga forum site so exactly. They even put on the tick the same as the one we use! Why can't they come up with something original? :confused:
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I am sooooo getting a The Karma® TF5 HTPC Slimline Home Theatre PC Case for my next PC build!
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I am sooooo getting a The Karma® TF5 HTPC Slimline Home Theatre PC Case for my next PC build!
Yeah i like it too :)
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Problem?
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http://www.amiga.org/forums/group.php?groupid=48
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What really has me worried is the banner on this: www.commodore-amiga.org/index.php (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/index.php) :eek:
I looked at it for 30 seconds wondering why Amiga.org would be a part of this and then i got it. We're not. It's a bit creepy copying another Amiga forum site so exactly. They even put on the tick the same as the one we use! Why can't they come up with something original? :confused:
Um I'm pretty sure the banner on that site didn't come from a.org especially since the original file is about 10 times the size of the a.org banner. ;]
original (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/images/CommodoreAmigaORG_ThreeVariations_Blur.png)
Oh and That site uses an almost standard joomla layout. ;]
Not like the standard box layout is special to any cms board. xoops,vbulletin,php-nuke etc all use it. =]
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Like I said, the same people who bitched because Amiga Inc didn't actually do anything will now bitch because CommodoreUSA is doing something.
No, it's not rebuilding the precious dead platform, but does anyone reading this thread REALLY think technology that was dead-ended 16 years ago is worth trying to revive? I say that we should just enjoy our "classic" platform, or even indulge in one of the new flavors if you really think it worth the aggravation of buggy software and "paying extreme amounts for beta-level hardware", but let's stop deluding ourselves about "the future of the Amiga", shall we?
Wayne
Nicely said, Wayne.
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No, it's not rebuilding the precious dead platform, but does anyone reading this thread REALLY think technology that was dead-ended 16 years ago is worth trying to revive? I say that we should just enjoy our "classic" platform, or even indulge in one of the new flavors if you really think it worth the aggravation of buggy software and "paying extreme amounts for beta-level hardware", but let's stop deluding ourselves about "the future of the Amiga", shall we?
Wayne
No delusion here, but I truly am enjoying my next-generation Amiga stuff and for me anyway it has been worth the price of admission. And my view is that A Inc. and C=USA are cut from the same cloth.
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No delusion here, but I truly am enjoying my next-generation Amiga stuff and for me anyway it has been worth the price of admission. And my view is that A Inc. and C=USA are cut from the same cloth.
I think that is a bit unfair. Give them some time to set things up on a large scale before condemning them. As far as WB5, I'll be happy if it isn't horrid as it's most likely a bridge to get them to where they want to be which will take time.
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Like I said, the same people who bitched because Amiga Inc didn't actually do anything will now bitch because CommodoreUSA is doing something.
Excuse me? Amiga Inc _did_ do _something_, it was called AmigaAnywhere, and most of us bitched about it having nothing at all to do with Amiga. And now CUSA is also doing _something_ that has nothing at all to do with Amiga.
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Hmmm. As much as purists will cry about it, at least they're doing SOMETHING with the brand, unlike some companies I can name :)
Wayne
yep just like DELL is doing something for PC's:rolleyes: c'mon Wayne a bloody Linux distro and AI has the gall to call that Workbench 5:madashell:
smells like everything else AI has done for us:flame:
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I think its pretty cool, and its nice to see movement in the brand! These Fanboys should be happy, but they never are..
So all you care about is the brand. Who's the fanboy again? :hammer:
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No delusion here, but I truly am enjoying my next-generation Amiga stuff and for me anyway it has been worth the price of admission. And my view is that A Inc. and C=USA are cut from the same cloth.
+ 1 mate:pint:
AI ain't fooling anyone here:destroy:
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yep just like DELL is doing something for PC's:rolleyes: c'mon Wayne a bloody Linux distro...
It's a (new)start... one made necessary because of the outdated-ness of the original AmigaOS and it's derivatives and legal hassles surrounding it.
I would be against C=USA doing anything with MorphOS, AOS4 or AROS. That would be bound to fail from the beginning.
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I don't think we can make much judgment on these guys until they actually ship something. At least they've finally gone quiet and stopped stealing artwork and qoutes for the time being.
It's a (new)start... one made necessary because of the outdated-ness of the original AmigaOS and it's derivatives and legal hassles surrounding it.
I would be against C=USA doing anything with MorphOS, AOS4 or AROS. That would be bound to fail from the beginning.
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I don't think we can make much judgment on these guys until they actually ship something. At least they've finally gone quiet and stopped stealing artwork and qoutes for the time being.
The official Commodore Amiga OS5 is coming soon and it won't be Linux.
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Well at least I like the cases.
But I don't think that slapping a sticker on some elses design and skinning BSD (or what ever) to look like AOS/amikit makes it an amiga. It really doesnt.
But I would like a SAM460 in that slimline case though. i alwasy did like desktops more than towers.
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It's a (new)start... one made necessary because of the outdated-ness of the original AmigaOS and it's derivatives and legal hassles surrounding it.
I would be against C=USA doing anything with MorphOS, AOS4 or AROS. That would be bound to fail from the beginning.
excuse me but a 'new start' with who..the infamous sheysters at AI:madashell:..ah yet again trying to make a buck off the Amiga brand and this time off the back of CUSA
I'm sure many of us would have alot more interest in CUSA if they teamed up with AROS (who like Linux is open source and unlike AI has respect in the community)
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excuse me but a 'new start' with who..the infamous sheysters at AI:madashell:..ah yet again trying to make a buck off the Amiga brand and this time off the back of CUSA
I'm sure many of us would have alot more interest in CUSA if they teamed up with AROS (who like Linux is open source and unlike AI has respect in the community)
C=USA has nothing with AI. Except they licenced the name, just like Hyperion and A-eon... and that's it.
They tried to go for AROS(a mistake in my eyes), they were boo-ed.
The only way this adventure can have a happy end is with Linux as a start/base. AROS is a dead end as long as it is OS3.1 API bound.
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excuse me but a 'new start' with who..the infamous sheysters at AI:madashell:..ah yet again trying to make a buck off the Amiga brand and this time off the back of CUSA
I'm sure many of us would have alot more interest in CUSA if they teamed up with AROS (who like Linux is open source and unlike AI has respect in the community)
Commodore Amiga is a registered and legitimate business in the Islamic Republic of Iran.
We will be announcing something very soon.
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http://www.karmadigital.com/tf5_htpc_home_theatre_pc_case.html +
http://www.ubuntu.com =
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_Amiga.aspx
You, madam, win. Wonder how much they're going to be charging for their stylish "couldn't be bothered to render with textures, but don't worry, we'll slap a boing-ball sticker on it in production" look on generic x86 desktop hardware?
As far as the whole "at least they're doing something" line of reasoning - I'm not going to trash on the people who think that next-gen Amiga-like OSes ought to run on x86 hardware (even if I myself disagree,) but come on. All that Commodore USA has been doing thus far is slapping a brand on generic Atom hardware in an unusual form-factor - it has less to do with the Amiga (x86, PPC, or 68k flavors) than those cheapo "greatest hits as performed by some group of barely-awake session players" records you find clogging up thrift stores have to do with the band they'd like you to think you're buying a record by.
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Commodore Amiga is a registered and legitimate business in the Islamic Republic of Iran.
We will be announcing something very soon.
heck I trust Iran more than AI..so why not:roflmao:
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You, madam, win. Wonder how much they're going to be charging for their stylish "couldn't be bothered to render with textures, but don't worry, we'll slap a boing-ball sticker on it in production" look on generic x86 desktop hardware?
Amiga desktop cases will be customized... Those Karma Digital cases that you currently see on the website are only the base... As to your possible question of how much customized... From what I can remember, the front fascia will be completely different(no cheap stickers), there's some talk about a keyboard garage like on the original A1000 and there are bound to be some changes inside as well.
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Okay, so they're going to slap a boing-ball logo bubble and a slightly customized case on generic x86 hardware. Whoop-de-doo.
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Amiga desktop cases will be customized... Those Karma Digital cases that you currently see on the website are only the base...
yes yes we've heard it all before a million times..of course they have a 30 million dollar budget but from day one have taken others work off the internet and pawned it off as their own...all in a good honest days work for AI:laughing:
honestly I bet that bloody 'snowman' was ripped off from some poor soul too...AI and CUSA you reap what you sow
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Okay, so they're going to slap a boing-ball sticker and a slightly customized case on generic x86 hardware. Whoop-de-doo.
What would you have them to do? There's nothing else anybody can do... even the mighty Apple uses "generic x86 hardware". There is simply no choice out there today, if you want to be a player, you're bound to use generic x86. But at least they'll be using the best x86 hardware ... Intel SandyBridge :)
And slightly customized cases... sure, in some models. Some will have a fully custom case. And they're starting a new Linux distro with aspirations to make if a fairly custom OS in the future. I think one can hardly accuse them of being "generic"(or slapping stickers), especially for a start-up...
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The words "legitimate" and "Iran" are an oxymoron. Even my relatives who have done well in the country are getting tired of the corruption. They said at first it was fun figuring out which mullah to slip the tomans to and how much but now it's just a drag...
It's sort of amazing that a country that vets all it's candidates using a "purity control" still has to resort to vote stealing. Current rumours are that in the next election you can vote for the "opposition" candidate by turning yourself into Evin prison directly and save everyone a bit of time...
Commodore Amiga is a registered and legitimate business in the Islamic Republic of Iran.
We will be announcing something very soon.
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Amiga® trademark used under exclusive worldwide license by Commodore USA, LLC for its line of AIO (All-In-One) keyboard computers, and is the trademark of Amiga Inc., registered in the United States and other countries.
Curious. Those pictures are of big-boxes, not of AOI keyboard computers.
Regardless, I feel that this is all an attempt my an embittered Amiga Inc. to try and ruin Hyperion's success. I do not support any of this Amiga branded hardware without AmigaOS (and cannot possibly run AmigaOS) crap.
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Curious. Those pictures are of big-boxes, not of AOI keyboard computers.
Regardless, I feel that this is all an attempt my an embittered Amiga Inc. to try and ruin Hyperion's success. I do not support any of this Amiga branded hardware without AmigaOS (and cannot possibly run AmigaOS) crap.
Commodore Amiga OS5 is coming soon to hardware near you.
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What would you have them to do? There's nothing else anybody can do... even the mighty Apple uses "generic x86 hardware". There is simply no choice out there today, if you want to be a player, you're bound to use generic x86. But at least they'll be using the best x86 hardware ... Intel SandyBridge :)
Again, I don't have a problem with Amiga-like OSes on x86 hardware - what I have a problem with is someone trying to pass off "x86 PC with a Commodore logo on it" as an actual Commodore computer. Commodore, the company, is dead. None of the people who made it what it was have anything to do with this venture - this is purely a case of a company dressing up in the trappings of a once-loved brand to hawk its own wares, which don't even bring anything special to the table.
I mean, seriously. I like Linux just fine, but Linux is not AmigaOS, never has been, and never will be. I don't care whether you're a devotee of AROS, MorphOS, ClassicWB, or even AOS4 - at least those have some basis in the Amiga architecture and design philosophy, instead of being a "well, uh, we cobbled up a desktop environment that looks like Workbench!" Linux distro. Using that on your desktop? Okay, sure. Selling it as AmigaOS? No.
(And no, you don't have to use x86. There's ARM, there's ColdFire, there's even Hitachi's SuperH architecture if you want. The domination of the Intel Hegemony isn't complete - not yet, anyway.
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Hyperion's success.
Sure... I hear AmigaOS4 devs are rolling in money and apple is trembling with words of Amiga OS 4.2 release... :rolleyes:
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what I have a problem with is someone trying to pass off "x86 PC with a Commodore logo on it" as an actual Commodore computer
Commodore sold x86 computers... and it would be doing x86 if it survived until today, including Amiga. Get over it.
this is purely a case of a company dressing up in the trappings of a once-loved brand to hawk its own wares, which don't even bring anything special to the table
From your point of view, maybe. But again, some may think differently.
I mean, seriously. I like Linux just fine, but Linux is not AmigaOS, never has been, and never will be. I don't care whether you're a devotee of AROS, MorphOS, ClassicWB, or even AOS4 - at least those have some basis in the Amiga architecture and design philosophy, instead of being a "well, uh, we cobbled up a desktop environment that looks like Workbench!" Linux distro. Using that on your desktop? Okay, sure. Selling it as AmigaOS? No.
Amiga OS architecture is a dead end. Face it. Had Commodore survived, there would be none of the original Amiga OS architecture today. End of story. C=USA could have just used Windows with their computers. The easy way. Instead, they're going with all the trouble of creating something custom, if only slightly, at the beggining. And no... it's not being sold as AmigaOS. The naming is not yet set in stone.
And no, you don't have to use x86. There's ARM, there's ColdFire, there's even Hitachi's SuperH architecture if you want. The domination of the Intel Hegemony isn't complete - not yet, anyway.
Coldfire? Are you serious? Sure, ARM I can see being competitive on the desktop market in a few years maybe. The rest is a no-go for any home computer use other then a hobby.
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Okay, so they're going to slap a boing-ball logo bubble and a slightly customized case on generic x86 hardware. Whoop-de-doo.
If they substituted a flaky PPC mobo for the generic x86, would that make things better? Oh, triple the price as well.
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Commodore sold x86 computers... and it would be doing x86 if it survived until today, including Amiga. Get over it.
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really? why don't you go back and see how well their x86 computers did
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really? why don't you go back and see how well their x86 computers did
that is well known. the fact remains if they had any hopes of staying competitive past 95', x86 was the only way in the future with a possible PPC era like Apple in between.
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Nobody will ever know what would had happened if Commodore had survived. Your starting to lose credibility by saying stuff like this.
Amiga OS architecture is a dead end. Face it. Had Commodore survived, there would be none of the original Amiga OS architecture today. End of story. C=USA could have just used Windows with their computers. The easy way. Instead, they're going with all the trouble of creating something custom, if only slightly, at the beggining. And no... it's not being sold as AmigaOS. The naming is not yet set in stone.
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If they substituted a flaky PPC mobo for the generic x86, would that make things better? Oh, triple the price as well.
nah c/mon now do you know how much work and effort actually trying to design, and engineer a 'real' new product would cost !...now why would AI and CUSA bother with that nonsense of trying to do some real design and engineering when they can slap a sticker on existing stuff that other people already made:roflmao:
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Nobody will ever know what would had happened if Commodore had survived. Your starting to lose credibility by saying stuff like this.
I know they'd be well past OS 3.1 by now :roflmao:
In fact, by the end of the 90s a completely new software architecture was needed to stay competitive. I can see Classic OS being sufficient(with some upgrades) for maybe a few years past the historic bankruptcy, but after that it's either new OS architecture or hasta la vista baby(again).
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nah c/mon now do you know how much work and effort actually trying to design, and engineer a 'real' new product would cost !...now why would AI and CUSA bother with that nonsense of trying to do some real design and engineering when they can slap a sticker on existing stuff that other people already made:roflmao:
They do not have the resources for that. No one (for now)has.
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Nobody will ever know what would had happened if Commodore had survived. Your starting to lose credibility by saying stuff like this.
I doubt they would be using amigaos at all.
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/haynie3drisc.html
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nah c/mon now do you know how much work and effort actually trying to design, and engineer a 'real' new product would cost !...now why would AI and CUSA bother with that nonsense of trying to do some real design and engineering when they can slap a sticker on existing stuff that other people already made:roflmao:
Oh come on, Eyetech had to take at least a week on how to rebadget the Teron mobo, it can't be that big of a deal.
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nah c/mon now do you know how much work and effort actually trying to design, and engineer a 'real' new product would cost !...now why would AI and CUSA bother with that nonsense of trying to do some real design and engineering when they can slap a sticker on existing stuff that other people already made:roflmao:
Teron comes to mind here ;)
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Commodore sold x86 computers... and it would be doing x86 if it survived until today, including Amiga. Get over it.
That may indeed have been the case - regardless, it doesn't change the fact that this is not the product of any of the people who made Commodore's computers the classics they were. And while they did sell x86 PCs, they weren't trying to cash in on the prior success of an entirely different system in so doing - they were just selling x86 PCs because that's what people were buying.
Amiga OS architecture is a dead end. Face it. Had Commodore survived, there would be none of the original Amiga OS architecture today. End of story.
How do you figure? The Amiga software architecture is stable and expandable enough to where it's perfectly conceivable that they could have stuck with it. Heck, the Amiga had true multitasking more than a decade before Windows or MacOS did.
And no... it's not being sold as AmigaOS. The naming is not yet set in stone.
Well, they're certainly calling it "Workbench 5" at present, and I'll treat that as their claim until they change it.
Coldfire? Are you serious? Sure, ARM I can see being competitive on the desktop market in a few years maybe. The rest is a no-go for any home computer use other then a hobby.
I'm not especially serious about Coldfire or SuperH, but ARM and PPC at least are viable alternatives. My point is that no, you don't have to use x86 - there are other options than sticking a generic Atom board in a slightly customized case and calling it an Amiga.
If they substituted a flaky PPC mobo for the generic x86, would that make things better? Oh, triple the price as well.
Oh, I'm nobody's A-Eon defender. The X1000 is even more inexcusable than this, but this ain't a thread about the X1000.
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http://www.karmadigital.com/tf5_htpc_home_theatre_pc_case.html
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http://www.ubuntu.com
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http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_Amiga.aspx
Ouch my Lord! It is sooo lame! :( We all can produce this new Commodore product at home... :(
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How do you figure? The Amiga software architecture is stable and expandable enough to where it's perfectly conceivable that they could have stuck with it. Heck, the Amiga had true multitasking more than a decade before Windows or MacOS did.
In 1985, Classic OS was a marvel. In 2010, it's a laugh. By today standards and heck, even late 90s, a complete rewrite of the AmigaOS was/is far more likely to have happend then Commodore getting stuck with Classic OS.
I'm not especially serious about Coldfire or SuperH, but ARM and PPC at least are viable alternatives.
ARM may be an alternative in a few years(for desktops)... PPC is not now and not in the foreseeable future.
My point is that no, you don't have to use x86
Yes, you do. If you want to sell, you need to use x86.
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Ouch my Lord! It is sooo lame! :( We all can produce this new Commodore product at home... :(
Honestly, I'd prefer to see nothing done to further the Amiga legacy than what C-USA is doing, lol. I don't find their putting stickers on a PC case with a PC mobo, reskinning an open source OS with an "Amiga" theme and renaming it "OS 5", then slapping an emulator on said box and selling at what will be likely an elevated price to be promoting the platform at all. Just like I didn't when they put out their all in ones that were asian junk that you could buy at a fraction of the price of what they were charging with the C=/Amiga decals on the same darned machines.
The entire C-USA thing leaves a hideous taste in my mouth and the one "representative" of C-USA that's chimed in on A.org hasn't done anything to make people think that the company is anything other than moneygrubbing scam. Then again, I felt the same about the boingball stickered PC $5 keyboards being passed off as "Official Amiga" gear. Thankfully in a free market, I don't have to buy such items if I don't wish to.
I don't see much innovation in slapping PC hardware in a PC case, reskinning an OS, adding an emulator and suddenly it's an "Amiga". It's no more an Amiga than the PC I got in front of me that runs UAE. Ain't a damned thing about C-USA that doesn't come off as extremely shady in my books, lol.
Then again, while I have no use for vintage Amiga hardware atm, I still do see the Amiga name as sort of sacred ground, so I may be overly sensitive about what can be viewed by some like myself as blatant attempts on cashing in on a legacy. No one is twisting my arm to purchase the stuff, so in the end, best of luck to C-USA if they actually bring said products to market in a fashion that doesn't make a mockery of the Amiga tradition.
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No matter how hard debates go on this thread - the sole truth has been posted by Cammy...
That's it - Either accept it or reject it...
I certainly would not buy that, but that's me!... And 90% of true/sad/nostalgic/misaligned/whatever Amiga users...
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In 1985, Classic OS was a marvel. In 2010, it's a laugh. By today standards and heck, even late 90s, a complete rewrite of the AmigaOS was/is far more likely to have happend then Commodore getting stuck with Classic OS.
I didn't mean using it as-is in the form of Kickstart 3.1 and Workbench 3.1 :/ Yes, you need to upgrade an operating system as the industry evolves, but that doesn't mean you have to totally throw away something that's fundamentally solid. Even "complete rewrite" doesn't necessarily mean ditching the underlying architecture.
Yes, you do. If you want to sell, you need to use x86.
No, you don't. ARM has already been used in tons of mobile computing devices (most of which sell just fine) and is beginning to work its way into the laptop market. All of the current-gen game consoles are based on the POWER architecture in one form or another. The only place the x86 is ubiquitous is in the desktop PC market, and that's only because it provides compatibility with Windows application binaries from previous generations. Linux is a fundamentally source-based operating system anyway - there's no reason this project has to use x86, other than that Atom boards are cheap and easy to throw into a prefab case before branding it and selling it to someone claiming it's an Amiga.
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I didn't mean using it as-is in the form of Kickstart 3.1 and Workbench 3.1 :/ Yes, you need to upgrade an operating system as the industry evolves, but that doesn't mean you have to totally throw away something that's fundamentally solid. Even "complete rewrite" doesn't necessarily mean ditching the underlying architecture.
It really isn't as solid as many amiga users make it look like. It was very solid in 1985. By the start of the 90s, it was still very competitive. But by the second half of the 90s, some fundamental changes would have to been made to keep it competitive. Either that or face getting obscure, just like Apple's classic OS did by the end of it's tenure.
No, you don't. ARM has already been used in tons of mobile computing devices (most of which sell just fine) and is beginning to work its way into the laptop market.
Exactly... mobile devices. Tablets and smartphones. Which is something that C=USA doesn't do for now. Once they do, then we can talk.
All of the current-gen game consoles are based on the POWER architecture in one form or another.
Their processors are not really suited for desktop use. And they are also getting long in the tooth by now. Not to mention that it would be impossible to get any of those CPUs in the free market.
The only place the x86 is ubiquitous is in the desktop PC market, and that's only because it provides compatibility with Windows application binaries from previous generations.
Partly yes... but today there is no better hardware then x86 and that's it. It's plenty fast and plenty cheap.
Linux is a fundamentally source-based operating system anyway - there's no reason this project has to use x86
Sure you have other reasons... it's fast, it's cheap and has a clear future upgrade path, not to mention complete market dominance.
other than that Atom boards are cheap and easy to throw into a prefab case before branding it and selling it to someone claiming it's an Amiga.
Amigas will not run Atoms. They will only run high-end Intel x86 stuff with high-end nVidia GPUs, possibly even with water cooling as standard in some models. Also expect 3D gaming nVidia support, Video Toaster editions(RealTek is one of their partners), possible Tesla GPU home supercomputers and so on... :).
All in all, I look forward to it. I wanna have fun... I also plan to contribute some software. They may be even an Amiga app market by CUSA.
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+1
No matter how hard debates go on this thread - the sole truth has been posted by Cammy...
That's it - Either accept it or reject it...
I certainly would not buy that, but that's me!... And 90% of true/sad/nostalgic/misaligned/whatever Amiga users...
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The only place the x86 is ubiquitous is in the desktop PC market, and that's only because it provides compatibility with Windows application binaries from previous generations. Linux is a fundamentally source-based operating system anyway - there's no reason this project has to use x86, other than that Atom boards are cheap and easy to throw into a prefab case before branding it and selling it to someone claiming it's an Amiga.
There is no claiming, C=USA has the license from Amiga Inc for the name, "Amiga." After Eyetech dragged the name through the cesspools, there is very little damage C= USA could ever do to it. If anything, they are using well known models that won't have significant hardware bugs which is a perk the Amiga community is not use to.
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It really isn't as solid as many amiga users make it look like. It was very solid in 1985. By the start of the 90s, it was still very competitive. But by the second half of the 90s, some fundamental changes would have to been made to keep it competitive. Either that or face getting obscure, just like Apple's classic OS did by the end of it's tenure.
Exactly... mobile devices. Tablets and smartphones. Which is something that C=USA doesn't do for now. Once they do, then we can talk.
Their processors are not really suited for desktop use. And they are also getting long in the tooth by now. Not to mention that it would be impossible to get any of those CPUs in the free market.
Partly yes... but today there is no better hardware then x86 and that's it. It's plenty fast and plenty cheap.
Sure you have other reasons... it's fast, it's cheap and has a clear future upgrade path, not to mention complete market dominance.
Amigas will not run Atoms. They will only run high-end Intel x86 stuff with high-end nVidia GPUs, possibly even with water cooling as standard in some models. Also expect 3D gaming nVidia support, Video Toaster editions(RealTek is one of their partners), possible Tesla GPU home supercomputers and so on... :).
All in all, I look forward to it. I wanna have fun... I also plan to contribute some software. They may be even an Amiga app market by CUSA.
"RealTek"?
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!
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"RealTek"?
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, I meant Newtek :laughing:
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There is no claiming, C=USA has the license from Amiga Inc for the name, "Amiga." After Eyetech dragged the name through the cesspools, there is very little damage C= USA could ever do to it. If anything, they are using well known models that won't have significant hardware bugs which is a perk the Amiga community is not use to.
I have the rights to the name Commodore Amiga.
I might license the names to AROS and MorphOS Team for zero cost.
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Amigas will not run Atoms. They will only run high-end Intel x86 stuff with high-end nVidia GPUs, possibly even with water cooling as standard in some models. Also expect 3D gaming nVidia support, Video Toaster editions(RealTek is one of their partners), possible Tesla GPU home supercomputers and so on... :).
All in all, I look forward to it. I wanna have fun... I also plan to contribute some software. They may be even an Amiga app market by CUSA.
Okay, my mistake on the Atom thing. That doesn't change the fact that they're slapping a completely unrelated brand on generic x86 hardware that you can assemble from NewEgg for likely a whole lot less than you'll pay to get it with the brand slapped on.
Also, there's a perfectly nice app market already in place. It's called the Internet.
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There is no claiming, C=USA has the license from Amiga Inc for the name, "Amiga." After Eyetech dragged the name through the cesspools, there is very little damage C= USA could ever do to it. If anything, they are using well known models that won't have significant hardware bugs which is a perk the Amiga community is not use to.
I don't really care whether they have the legal rights to the name or not - they're still trying to sell a standard x86 PC as somehow being a "new Amiga." If that's the case, the genericlone Pentium 4 workstation I'm typing on is as much an Amiga as what they're selling, and I didn't have to sit around looking at terrible POV-ray renders and wondering how much the distributor was going to charge me for it.
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Okay, my mistake on the Atom thing. That doesn't change the fact that they're slapping a completely unrelated brand on generic x86 hardware that you can assemble from NewEgg for likely a whole lot less than you'll pay to get it with the brand slapped on.
Also, there's a perfectly nice app market already in place. It's called the Internet.
You can always get something like hardware for less when no-branded. Hello captain obvious. :) . But what you cannot get and what I do expect when buying something branded. Quality and testing. And naturally, some people like the brand.
Sure there's Internet. But it's always nice to have everything in one place to ease buying, especially if it's also a community thing.
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I don't really care whether they have the legal rights to the name or not - they're still trying to sell a standard x86 PC as somehow being a "new Amiga." If that's the case, the genericlone Pentium 4 workstation I'm typing on is as much an Amiga as what they're selling, and I didn't have to sit around looking at terrible POV-ray renders and wondering how much the distributor was going to charge me for it.
That's tue for the most part. The Amigas, Ataris, Commodores, Aplles... of the 80s are long gone and will never return.
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That's tue for the most part. The Amigas, Ataris, Commodores, Aplles... of the 80s are long gone and will never return.
Well, you go ahead and give up hope, and I'll just keep cautiously holding out for NatAmi.
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Well, you go ahead and give up hope, and I'll just keep cautiously holding out for NatAmi.
natami!? Nothing to get excited about... at least for me. A slightly faster 68K, again completely unsuited for modern home computing... And for a lot of money, if it is ever finished and released.
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I don't really care whether they have the legal rights to the name or not - they're still trying to sell a standard x86 PC as somehow being a "new Amiga." If that's the case, the genericlone Pentium 4 workstation I'm typing on is as much an Amiga as what they're selling, and I didn't have to sit around looking at terrible POV-ray renders and wondering how much the distributor was going to charge me for it.
I'll hold off till I see what the OS looks and feels like before I'll pass judgement. Or is that being too reasonable of an approach?
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Um.. that C64 looks sweet. Make the DVD drive door + the card slots the same color though.. black looks like ass.. but Im in either way.
Rich
ny
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The only way this adventure can have a happy end is with Linux as a start/base. AROS is a dead end as long as it is OS3.1 API bound.
Strange thing is that AROS is alive and kicking and AnubisOS is dead; or at least in a very deep coma.
greets,
Staf.
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It's a (new)start... one made necessary because of the outdated-ness of the original AmigaOS and it's derivatives and legal hassles surrounding it.
I would be against C=USA doing anything with MorphOS, AOS4 or AROS. That would be bound to fail from the beginning.
You'll love the statements about how they plan to fund AROS financially and be compatible with the OS from the beginning then. ;^)
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Strange thing is that AROS is alive and kicking and AnubisOS is dead; or at least in a very deep coma.
greets,
Staf.
AROS may be alive... but is it really kicking? Depends what you describe as kicking. To me it never made sense to force OS 3.1 API today. They say it provides them with an unified goal, but I'm guessing that also mean AROS might be headed for trouble once the complete OS 3.1 API is achieved. What then?
No, I'll check out AROS from time to time but I see no big future for it.
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Dosn't anyone else find it funny that anytime someone comes on this forum heavily hyping or defending cusa that they have 50 or less posts?
Do they really think everyone is that stupid? Why don't they just send the chief technical officer on here again, so he can call people stupid, lie about people hacking his amigaworld account and his own personal email accounts, and just generally represent cusa in the worst possible manner?
After ALL their hype, announcments of multi-million dollar advertising budgets, bragging, threatening people, and so on... All they have managed to accomplish so far is slapping a commodore sticker on a cybernet pc.
Oh, they have also managed to aleienate, insult, and argue with the entire retro commodore and amiga community, insuring total failure of their projects.
Sending shills on to defend your company because you don't have the balls to come on here yourself and do it... Well that just speaks volumes about them.
The amiga curse is upon them. They will fail to do anything, and in 2 years we'll be making jokes about them, just like we do now about A-INC and Silly Billy.
Steven
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You'll love the statements about how they plan to fund AROS financially and be compatible with the OS from the beginning then. ;^)
Thankfully, AROS has been dropped. There may be some future involvement, but it will not feature as an official OS.
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You know what i love most about Wolftothemoon argument is that he keeps saying that No one would develop custom motherboard/hardware or carry on a dead OS development that would cost to much to do, would not be successful, its time to move on forget about that idea, its to costly and will never return the Amiga to former glory, well have you heard of a company called Hyperion and A-eon, they are trying exactly that.
Does it matter that they might not reach mass market, they might not be successful when you compare them to apple, or pc, or even linux markets. But they are trying their best to deliver what a next generation Amiga should be (to me any way).
We can all speculate what would of happened if Commodore kept going, but they didn't, what they left is their legacy, and that is what Amiga users around the world have been hacking, pushing, and expanding on over the past 20 years, and will continue to do so, they didn't come all that way just be told, “forget all that and buy a PC called Amiga, and as a treat a have a skinned linux dispro that looks like you antique OS, you crazy fools”.
As for bitching about Amiga Inc not doing anything, I have to say I have a much higher respect for Amiga Inc after what commodoreusa has already said and done. At least Amiga Inc did support the community at the start, attended amiga shows, gave licences out, and actually tried to crate a new platform Amiga Anywhere, Bill McEwen must be kicking him self for seeing how easy it could have been to create this so called new Amiga.
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well have you heard of a company called Hyperion and A-eon, they are trying exactly that.
Have heard of them.
Does it matter that they might not reach mass market, they might not be successful when you compare them to apple, or pc, or even linux markets. But they are trying their best to deliver what a next generation Amiga should be (to me any way).
See the problem here... the NEXT GENERATION Amiga. To me, a PPC Amiga running an OS as outdated as OS4 can never be next gen. It has already been tried and it failed for the most part. So it is not really a next generation thing. It's the same generation all over again, just more expensive this time. Time to try something different.
That said, I may actually be inclined to buy a used X1000 one day if it ever gets launched. I love custom hardware but I'd never give so much money for something that useless. Only used and if it gets cheaper by then...
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Dosn't anyone else find it funny that anytime someone comes on this forum heavily hyping or defending cusa that they have 50 or less posts?
Sending shills on to defend your company because you don't have the balls to come on here yourself and do it... Well that just speaks volumes about them.
Nah, shills have that corporate forced-smile uncanny-valley touch to their posts. Wolfofthemoon might be inexplicably excited about something he could purchase, assemble, and use right this very minute if he wasn't waiting for the Official C-USA Stamp of Sanction, but he doesn't come off like the Executive Cheer Officer, Grassroots Marketing Division type.
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Can't people wait till Commodore bring out a working computer running their Workbench 5 software before complaining.
It might work it might fail but at least give them a chance.
If it brings the Commodore and Amiga brands back to the shops it can't be too bad.
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Oh man, who cares, I don't :) If some idiots want to sell peecees as Amigas then let them. I know better and won't buy them. If I want a new peecee I'll just pop into the peecee shoppe around the corner and buy one. Much easier :)
What I don't understand is why some people find these damned things appealing :confused: Makes no sense to me... but it doesn't have to make sense: To each their own ;)
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If it brings the Commodore and Amiga brands back to the shops it can't be too bad.
Exactly...
People here are expecting things that simply cannot be produced. I can live with an Atom powered C64x. I can also live with a community enjoying themselves and writing fun software for it. We'll do retro games, we'll do modern games, various software. And we'll say we're writing games for the new Commodore C64x and people will think we're crazy... So what? As long as it is fun:drink:;)
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I think its funny someone calls him fake, and he ignores that and keeps right on defending CUSA. thats funny.
Still a shill, maybe not bigbenaussie, but still a shill.
Big ben assie is probably busy printing stickers for the new amigas.
Or busy stealing graphics from the internet to use on their amiga theme ubuntu respin.
Steven
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Also how fun will it be when someone comes to your house and mocks you when they see a Commodore 64 under the TV and you suddenly show them it running Modern day software and playing blu ray movies
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Dosn't anyone else find it funny that anytime someone comes on this forum heavily hyping or defending cusa that they have 50 or less posts?
Do they really think everyone is that stupid? Why don't they just send the chief technical officer on here again, so he can call people stupid, lie about people hacking his amigaworld account and his own personal email accounts, and just generally represent cusa in the worst possible manner?
After ALL their hype, announcments of multi-million dollar advertising budgets, bragging, threatening people, and so on... All they have managed to accomplish so far is slapping a commodore sticker on a cybernet pc.
Oh, they have also managed to aleienate, insult, and argue with the entire retro commodore and amiga community, insuring total failure of their projects.
Sending shills on to defend your company because you don't have the balls to come on here yourself and do it... Well that just speaks volumes about them.
The amiga curse is upon them. They will fail to do anything, and in 2 years we'll be making jokes about them, just like we do now about A-INC and Silly Billy.
Steven
Well Steven, I've got more than 50 posts and I've defended CUSA.
I like many of you, had a strong opinion when this company made its first announcements.
But after talking to Barry Altman, I've decided to reserve my judgment.
Barry is not Bill McEwen, and while the budget numbers mentioned do seem inflated, I don't think he's mistaken about the potential market.
Currently, the only thing Apple has to differentiate its products is its OS.
Its about time someone selling X86 machines had something else to offer. Even just the look, the branding, and the PC64 offer some appeal to many of us.
Personally, I was them well. As has been said before, at least they're doing something.
BTW - Haven't we been all over this topic before?
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I think its funny someone calls him fake, and he ignores that and keeps right on defending CUSA. thats funny.
Still a shill, maybe not bigbenaussie, but still a shill.
Big ben assie is probably busy printing stickers for the new amigas.
Or busy stealing graphics from the internet to use on their amiga theme ubuntu respin.
Steven
Steven, if I found your posts to contain any meaningful or useful conversation/information, I'd answer it.
Since trolling is your way of "discussion", I will refrain from answering your posts as long as you're blatantly accusing me of something that I am not and/or trolling aimlessly.
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If CUSA really wants to innovate then they should go out of the beaten path of PC clone and build something totally from scratch. How about a Cell based based system with a real parallel OS for starter. The original Amiga was the first home computer with preemptive multitasking why not innovate on that front?
The world doesn't need another PC platform running an emulation layer on top of it, even if that layer is built in the OS itself.
There isn't really a place for another PC but there is a place for a new architecture, one that could revolutionize the world of personal computing.
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Dosn't anyone else find it funny that anytime someone comes on this forum heavily hyping or defending cusa that they have 50 or less posts?
I think I have slightly more then 50 posts...
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Okay Big ben, come back when you have the balls to post under your own name. You should learn about IP#'s mr. chief technical officer. Dumbass.
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If CUSA really wants to innovate then they should go out of the beaten path of PC clone and build something totally from scratch. How about a Cell based based system with a real parallel OS for starter. The original Amiga was the first home computer with preemptive multitasking why not innovate on that front?
The world doesn't need another PC platform running an emulation layer on top of it, even if that layer is built in the OS itself.
There isn't really a place for another PC but there is a place for a new architecture, one that could revolutionize the world of personal computing.
Are you people listening to what you're saying/writing? A platform from a scratch? Sure... chip in a few billion $, I'll do it, no problem :)
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Maybe if C= and Amiga become popular again they can think about making a computer from scratch.
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Maybe if C= and Amiga become popular again they can think about making a computer from scratch.
If cusa became popular they could build a new platform...
I don't think we will let them become popular. They made some mistakes with their website, got upset at harrasment, and made some claims that could be seen as potential vapor.
Even if they do things perfectly from here on out some of us won't give them another chance.
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Maybe if C= and Amiga become popular again they can think about making a computer from scratch.
If CUSA would to become wildly popular, and I mean WILDLY, the best thing one could expect is a slightly custom x86 motherboard and/or an ARM license to develop their own cores. But this is pure science fiction, really. Beyond Sci-Fi, really... :)
I don't bother too much with that stuff. I just want to have fun :). And if you want a custom platform, FPGAs are readily available, make your own. :afro:
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Even if they do things perfectly from here on out some of us won't give them another chance.
Agreed. Worse though was their "cease and desist" letter to OSNews, at least in terms of broader public opinion.
Although I must admit I did laugh hard at the reaction it generated in some of the comments, especially the dissection of the letter's origin.
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If CUSA would to become wildly popular, and I mean WILDLY, the best thing one could expect is a slightly custom x86 motherboard and/or an ARM license to develop their own cores. But this is pure science fiction, really. Beyond Sci-Fi, really... :)
Pure science fiction. (http://beagleboard.org/)
X86 IS GOD! ALL PRAISE TO INTEL! DEATH TO THE DISSENTERS!
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If cusa became popular they could build a new platform...
I don't think we will let them become popular. They made some mistakes with their website, got upset at harrasment, and made some claims that could be seen as potential vapor.
Even if they do things perfectly from here on out some of us won't give them another chance.
They are nothing but a pair of shysters, Leo's blatant hasbara in this thread is proof of that.
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See the problem here... the NEXT GENERATION Amiga. To me, a PPC Amiga running an OS as outdated as OS4 can never be next gen. It has already been tried and it failed for the most part. So it is not really a next generation thing. It's the same generation all over again, just more expensive this time. Time to try something different.
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ok Leo, now you are being a bit ridiculous here.
- OS4.1 has been evolving very nicely ever since that damn court case with the shysters at AI has been resolved.
- THREE new hardware platforms have evolved solely for running AmigaOS4.x and beyond so how can that be a failure....if it werent for the success of the Sam440 then the new Sam460ex would not exist.
- again I must stress that Commodore already tried making off the shelf pc's with their logo on them and guess what...they failed! it was a last ditch effort to try to make some money for the company and they found out the hard way that their loyal customers wanted nothing to do with that farce.
now saying that if CUSA actually make this off the shelf PC much cheaper than the next off the shelf PC then maybe people will buy it BUT i got a guy feeling that AI will want a few shyster pennies for that Amiga sticker on the case so I doubt that will happen
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Maybe if C= and Amiga become popular again they can think about making a computer from scratch.
hilarious comment ! AI can't even make a bloody snow man maker from scratch and make it successful:laughing:
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Maybe if C= and Amiga become popular again they can think about making a computer from scratch.
Why?
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Yea, pissing off the Amiga people is no big deal since we are a pretty small group and very few of us will probably buy their product. On the other hand sending that letter to OSnews was a really really bad business move.
Agreed. Worse though was their "cease and desist" letter to OSNews, at least in terms of broader public opinion.
Although I must admit I did laugh hard at the reaction it generated in some of the comments, especially the dissection of the letter's origin.
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We can all speculate what would of happened if Commodore kept going, but they didn't, what they left is their legacy, and that is what Amiga users around the world have been hacking, pushing, and expanding on over the past 20 years, and will continue to do so, they didn't come all that way just be told, “forget all that and buy a PC called Amiga, and as a treat a have a skinned linux dispro that looks like you antique OS, you crazy fools”.
Very well said. This is exactly the way I feel too.
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OS4.1 has been evolving very nicely ever since that damn court case with the shysters at AI has been resolved.
What AOS4 or any other amiga-related OS needs is an revolution, not evolution. As long as it is a evolution, it will continue to be an obscure hobby OS.
- THREE new hardware platforms have evolved solely for running AmigaOS4.x and beyond so how can that be a failure....if it werent for the success of the Sam440 then the new Sam460ex would not exist.
And I must say I'm impressed by that, solely beacuse the market is rather small. We'll see how the X1000 will go when it comes.
- again I must stress that Commodore already tried making off the shelf pc's with their logo on them and guess what...they failed! it was a last ditch effort to try to make some money for the company and they found out the hard way that their loyal customers wanted nothing to do with that farce.
different times today.
now saying that if CUSA actually make this off the shelf PC much cheaper than the next off the shelf PC then maybe people will buy it BUT i got a guy feeling that AI will want a few shyster pennies for that Amiga sticker on the case so I doubt that will happen
If you think C=USA will be making cheap x86 hardware, then you're mistaken. Actually, there may be few very cheap AIO Commodore models, but the majority of their product line will be for those with slightly deeper pockets. Not obscenely expensive, I think. Afterall, I think if they pull this off together with launching their Linux distro they can demand a slightly higher price in all fairness. I might be mistaken... time will show.
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Are you people listening to what you're saying/writing? A platform from a scratch? Sure... chip in a few billion $, I'll do it, no problem :)
double face palm !!!....no just put stickers on existing products and then get a 10 year old to modify an existing Linux distro for you:furious:
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double face palm !!!....no just put stickers on existing products and then get a 10 year old to modify an existing Linux distro for you:furious:
Let's see
custom cases
custom packaging(thread over at C-A.org)
custom Linux distro(with a possibility of becoming a custom OS in the future)
possible app market
sure seems like a lot of sticker slapping, doesn't it?
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double face palm !!!....no just put stickers on existing products and then get a 10 year old to modify an existing Linux distro for you:furious:
I prefer paper myself =P
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54847
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If you think C=USA will be making cheap x86 hardware, then you're mistaken. Actually, there may be few very cheap AIO Commodore models, but the majority of their product line will be for those with slightly deeper pockets. Not obscenely expensive, I think. Afterall, I think if they pull this off together with launching their Linux distro they can demand a slightly higher price in all fairness. I might be mistaken... time will show.
but if it's more expensive then who's gonna buy it other than Commie & Miggy fanboys...you do realize those guys are already in the modern scene and posting on the very forums you're on right:confused:
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but if it's more expensive then who's gonna buy it other than Commie & Miggy fanboys...you do realize those guys are already in the modern scene and posting on the very forums you're on right:confused:
For the millionth time... They are not after the current AOS4/MOS/AROS users. They are after the general Win/Linux/MAC/ex-Amiga users.
if you have a look at C64x comments on various (independent)sites, you'll see that much of the public is very in favour of it. I think they will sell plenty of those. AMIGAs will be aimed at gamers. That's also a big market. AMIGAs will be a harder sell then C64x or cheap Commodore AIOs, but it's possible.
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For the millionth time... They are not after the current AOS4/MOS/AROS users. They are after the general Win/Linux/MAC/ex-Amiga users. ....
& that's my point..to attract 'the others' then they must make it cheaper because only die hard fans will spend more for what you're offering....wait....ahh so now it makes sense...AI finally tries to do something but of course it's not for the community! and again sticks it to the community..thanks for clearing that up for us !
so with the 30 million budget you guys have when are the t-shirts coming
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Yowsa! I missed an explosion of a thread today! I'm not reading through every page atm, maybe later. I will say I was extremely harsh on Barry at first and I still have my reservations and concerns on a few things. That said, these pictures impress me.
http://commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64Prototype.aspx
I have gone from very pessimistic and ornery to cautiously hopeful. This shows far more than slapping a label on a zPC.
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Leo, don't you me WE not they?
I think with a 30 million dollar budget, just for advertising, we should ALL get free t-shirts, yes even the haters.
If their advertising budget is 30 million, I wonder what their sticker budget is. I think they cancelled several earlier planned models because they ran out of commodore stickers.
The ceo spent the sticker money on gum that week.
Leo's mom couldn't front him his allowance, so they cancelled those models.
Maybe they will have better luck with their 3 new planned "amiga" models.
Steven
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Yowsa! I missed an explosion of a thread today! I'm not reading through every page atm, maybe later. I will say I was extremely harsh on Barry at first and I still have my reservations and concerns on a few things. That said, these pictures impress me.
http://commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64Prototype.aspx
I have gone from very pessimistic and ornery to cautiously hopeful. This shows far more than slapping a label on a zPC.
red, you're 128 Tower mod impresses me more:afro:
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Let's see
custom cases
custom packaging(thread over at C-A.org)
custom Linux distro(with a possibility of becoming a custom OS in the future)
possible app market
sure seems like a lot of sticker slapping, doesn't it?
Sure it does. It is still a cheap PC clone, nothing more.
And who do you think will buy your system. The only thing that differentiates you from the rest of the clone maker is the Commodore name recognition, and your on your way to piss off your prime customer base, which is us, the one that even remember the Commodore name by the way.
There isn't anything custom about your linux distro. You won't even have the exclusivity of it, since you have to release it to everybody as per the GPL and other open source licensing. People won't buy your clone, they'll just download an iso of your distrib and use it on their standard PC.
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& that's my point..to attract 'the others' then they must make it cheaper because only die hard fans will spend more for what you're offering....wait....ahh so now it makes sense...AI finally tries to do something but of course it's not for the community! and again sticks it to the community..thanks for clearing that up for us !
so with the 30 million budget you guys have when are the t-shirts coming
there'a place on the x86 market for both cheap no branded and more expensive branded merchandise. Nobody is saying that it is going to be easy for them, but they have 2 very strong brands and some interesting products. We'll see...
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custom cases
custom packaging(thread over at C-A.org)
custom Linux distro(with a possibility of becoming a custom OS in the future)
possible app market
sure seems like a lot of sticker slapping, doesn't it?
Right, so slapping a new bezel on some manufacturer's stock case, putting it in a pretty box, and skinning Linux with something that looks like Workbench makes it a completely different thing than an equivalent-spec PC assembled from components off NewEgg or TigerDirect.
"For my next trick, I'm going to turn this Honda into a Ferrari Testarossa using only a label printer and an airbrush!"
(P.S. how, exactly, are they planning to turn Linux into a "custom OS?")
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red, you're 128 Tower mod impresses me more:afro:
Thanks a lot, I am quite fond of it :cool:
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You know, people... you're pretty funny.
Out there, in the REAL world, hundreds of millions of x86 PCs is being sold every year, both cheap and expensive, yet you're trying to convince me that it is wrong to sell those and that it is a failed concept.
Instead, one should go in a adventure of a completely new platform and/or OS just for the sake of being completely different.
Good... good. Go ahead and try, put your money where your mouth is :lol:
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Right, so slapping a new bezel on some manufacturer's stock case, putting it in a pretty box, and skinning Linux with something that looks like Workbench makes it a completely different thing than an equivalent-spec PC assembled from components off NewEgg or TigerDirect.
"For my next trick, I'm going to turn this Honda into a Ferrari Testarossa using only a label printer and an airbrush!"
excellent analogy! in the early 90's there used to be a guy I know that drove a 'kit car' Fiero to make it look like a 3x8 Ferrari (alla Magnum PI)....sad eh
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excellent analogy! in the early 90's there used to be a guy I know that drove a 'kit car' Fiero to make it look like a 3x8 Ferrari (alla Magnum PI)....sad eh
Actually, now that I think about it, I shoulda said a Karmann Ghia - pretty skin, same old Volkswagen innards ;)
Instead, one should go in a adventure of a completely new platform and/or OS just for the sake of being completely different.
Good... good. Go ahead and try, put your money where your mouth is :lol:
You are aware that there are multiple groups doing exactly that, right? And every last one of them has shown as much or more progress as C-USA.
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Actually, now that I think about it, I shoulda said a Karmann Ghia - pretty skin, same old Volkswagen innards ;)
Hey! Nothing wrong with either Karmann Ghia or VW innards! But that is drifting way ot...:lol:
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Leo wolf up his moon is funny.
By his logic, pc's at all would have failed, since every business was buying mainframes at the time pc's became a "product"
Doing what everyone else is doing is never the path to success, its the path to mediocrity.
Steven
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I think its a fun project for many reasons and I’m very curious to see it unfolds.
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You know, people... you're pretty funny.
Out there, in the REAL world, hundreds of millions of x86 PCs is being sold every year, both cheap and expensive, yet you're trying to convince me that it is wrong to sell those and that it is a failed concept.
Instead, one should go in a adventure of a completely new platform and/or OS just for the sake of being completely different.
Good... good. Go ahead and try, put your money where your mouth is :lol:
The PC market just standardized like the auto market. All most all vehicles use combustion engines the use gasoline or diesel as fuel.
In the later days of Commdore, even the R&D guys were working on using graphics card in stead of custom graphics chips.
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Right, so slapping a new bezel on some manufacturer's stock case, putting it in a pretty box, and skinning Linux with something that looks like Workbench makes it a completely different thing than an equivalent-spec PC assembled from components off NewEgg or TigerDirect.
"For my next trick, I'm going to turn this Honda into a Ferrari Testarossa using only a label printer and an airbrush!"
If they had the rights to the name e.g Acer/Asus or someone like that if I remember rightly did exactly that with their Ferrari laptops.
My beef isn't that they will use Amiga name, but that they will abuse the Amiga name because it isn't a defendable trademark like Ferrari, and its open season on the Amiga far more than AI had the balls to do.
Lets face it for anyone to ever see the Amiga truely a computing brand we hope that one of major's can pick up the name for a song, when the IRS finally catch up with the con artists.
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Hey! Nothing wrong with either Karmann Ghia or VW innards! But that is drifting way ot...:lol:
No, not at all, but if you were trying to claim that having a sports-car shell on compact-sedan guts made it a completely different thing...uh, right, back on topic...
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You are aware that there are multiple groups doing exactly that, right? And every last one of them has shown as much or more progress as C-USA.
What progress? Show me progress! Show me a AOS4, MOS or AROS machine that can replace my current Win or Linux machine for work and fun or even simple web browsing?
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You know, people... you're pretty funny.
Out there, in the REAL world, hundreds of millions of x86 PCs is being sold every year, both cheap and expensive, yet you're trying to convince me that it is wrong to sell those and that it is a failed concept.
nope it's not wrong to sell an off the shelf PC but it's sad to get the AI shysters to make a cent off each one sold with their sticker on it !
Instead, one should go in a adventure of a completely new platform and/or OS just for the sake of being completely different.
AmigaOS, AROS, and MOS are already here....and so are various Linux distro's
Good... good. Go ahead and try, put your money where your mouth is :lol:
you know real companies that care about the community already have ...oh wait..ya I just remembered that AI and CUSA don't give a rats ass about that...right Leo:angry:
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AmigaOS, AROS, and MOS are already here....and so are various Linux distro's
None of the Amiga related OSes is really worth any serious consideration.
If I had the choice and pretty much unlimited funds, I'd go with Syllable OS.
you know real companies that care about the community already have ...oh wait..ya I just remembered that AI and CUSA don't give a rats ass about that...right Leo:angry:
I'm not Leo... As far as I'm concerned, I'm perfectly happy with any of the mods checking mine and Leo's IP to compare if you're so interested.
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What progress? Show me progress! Show me a AOS4, MOS or AROS machine that can replace my current Win or Linux machine for work and fun or even simple web browsing?
Why should they replace your win or linux machine?
I sure don't need another device to surf the web, I have enough already, hell I can even buy a fridge with internet connectivity.
What I want is the next step in computer evolution, just like the Amiga was in 1985.
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What progress? Show me progress! Show me a AOS4, MOS or AROS machine that can replace my current Win or Linux machine for work and fun or even simple web browsing?
Show me a C-USA "Amiga" that isn't just a picture of a case without even a pasteboard photo of a potential motherboard in it.
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What I want is the next step in computer evolution, just like the Amiga was in 1985.
I don't think we'll see anything similar that soon. It was far easier, in concept if not in execution, to offer something like Amiga 1000 in 1985 then it is now, in any configuration. Today it's more small steps, but many of them and fast.
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Why should they replace your win or linux machine?
I sure don't need another device to surf the web, I have enough already, hell I can even buy a fridge with internet connectivity.
What I want is the next step in computer evolution, just like the Amiga was in 1985.
they should be on sale in about 3-4 months. Then I'll show you my C64x gladly :)
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3-4 months? Can we quote you on that Leo? They were supposed to be out by christmas but were not...
And what about the 3 cancelled commodore AIO computers? What happened did you run out of stickers?
All cancelled with no explanation, now they announce new computers... AGAIN!
Leo CTO wolf up his ass IS putting his money where his mouth is.
Printing commodore stickers at home on your printer can get expensive!
Can you imagine adding printing AMIGA stickers to that already ridiculous expense? Come on guys, he's not made of loot.
Wait... 30 million advertising budget? Sheesh I guess they decided to splurge on ads since their r+d budget consisted of buying a decal maker.
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I don't think we'll see anything similar that soon. It was far easier, in concept if not in execution, to offer something like Amiga 1000 in 1985 then it is now, in any configuration. Today it's more small steps, but many of them and fast.
And yet your not even walking. You are barely crawling or being dragged by the big boys like Dell and Asus...
And contrary to your beliefs it was even harder to do in 1985 because there was more competition. Commodore had to fight Apple, Atari, IBM, HP etc etc, each one trying to impose their architecture over the other on a limited marketplace (the personal computer market was smaller at that time).
For someone in the know you should learn a bit more about the history of the personal computer before making such remark.
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they should be on sale in about 3-4 months. Then I'll show you my C64x gladly :)
Lol, another clone running linux, yiipeeeedoooo! and all this in a carpal tunnel syndrome inducing keyboard case...
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And yet your not even walking. You are barely crawling or being dragged by the big boys like Dell and Asus...
And contrary to your beliefs it was even harder to do in 1985 because there was more competition. Commodore had to fight Apple, Atari, IBM, HP etc etc, each one trying to impose their architecture over the other on a limited marketplace (the personal computer market was smaller at that time).
For someone in the know you should learn a bit more about the history of the personal computer before making such remark.
This is obvious to many of us but perhaps Leo (or whoever he is) is a bit too young to remember those times
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For someone in the know
Hee! Good one.
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The PC market just standardized like the auto market. All most all vehicles use combustion engines the use gasoline or diesel as fuel.
In the later days of Commdore, even the R&D guys were working on using graphics card in stead of custom graphics chips.
Ah yes standard... they are the motor of innovation ain't they?
This is why we are still driving cars with 19th century designed fuel engine today.
If nobody decided to go against "standard" we would be still riding horses and using leeches as a remedy for all diseases...
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Hee! Good one.
Yeah, I forgot the smilies again :roflmao:
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Wow! I started a fire! Sorry! That's what I get for posting after a beer or three and finding that site after reading a thread on Geek Hack (The Commodore 64 "clone" will most likely have Cherry Blues in it, which is actually really cool). It just felt like Twilight Zone-ish, as what or who is that market for? Someone who wants to run Linux while typing on a C64 lookalike? I wasn't trying to go all h8ter on it, but it was sort of a "Where the hell has this been hiding, and why aren't they even addressing their core fanboi market at all?"
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And yet your not even walking. You are barely crawling or being dragged by the big boys like Dell and Asus...
And contrary to your beliefs it was even harder to do in 1985 because there was more competition. Commodore had to fight Apple, Atari, IBM, HP etc etc, each one trying to impose their architecture over the other on a limited marketplace (the personal computer market was smaller at that time).
For someone in the know you should learn a bit more about the history of the personal computer before making such remark.
You misunderstood me... yes, Commodore did have a big competition. That wasn't what I was thinking. What I was thinking is that in 1985 the A1000 was a giant leap forward in home computing. To repeat that today is much more difficult because home computing is on a different level all together.
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Personally, I think you're giving too much credit to the Amiga when you claim it to be that revolutionary. Apple likes to stake this claim too. In the end both derive most of their inspiration from Xerox PARC and Xerox's over priced $14,000 GUI based systems (which preceded both).
Now all common personal computers use a mouse, have a GUI, and a multi-tasking OS. But that's not Amiga's legacy (or Apple's), that's due to Xerox.
This has to be the most rabidly contentious thread yet. AmigaOS, OSX, Windows, Linux - what's the difference?
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natami!? Nothing to get excited about... at least for me. A slightly faster 68K, again completely unsuited for modern home computing... And for a lot of money, if it is ever finished and released.
OK now this statement is irksome. Most home users do two things: Look at pictures and surf the web. Linux isn't a great gaming platform not because of the bazaar, but because of DirectX calls and the domination of DirectX over OpenGL. Amiga isn't a great internet browser because of a lack of a good modern browser and extensions. I was surfing the net, playing movies in mplayer, listening to MP3s in xmms on a pentium I (not much faster than the NatAmi specs out at) running debian shortly after my 1200 went south. Most of us oldies have seen the transition. i hardly game on my PC anymore because the console market is as good these days, and in fact, the ports often go the other direction now (console to PC). I know dudes who make it a point to use only P1s and 486s even running Win95. Granted, they're freaks :D If you can survive on a 486 for most tasks, you sure as hell could on a NatAmi.
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Personally, I think you're giving too much credit to the Amiga when you claim it to be that revolutionary. Apple likes to stake this claim too. In the end both derive most of their inspiration from Xerox PARC and Xerox's over priced $14,000 GUI based systems (which preceded both).
Now all common personal computers use a mouse, have a GUI, and a multi-tasking OS. But that's not Amiga's legacy (or Apple's), that's due to Xerox.
This has to be the most rabidly contentious thread yet. AmigaOS, OSX, Windows, Linux - what's the difference?
That's not the whole deal... Amiga made it available to a lot bigger audience for a lot less money. 14 000 $ in the 80s... you could probably buy a few cars for that then :)
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Personally, I think you're giving too much credit to the Amiga when you claim it to be that revolutionary. Apple likes to stake this claim too. In the end both derive most of their inspiration from Xerox PARC and Xerox's over priced $14,000 GUI based systems (which preceded both).
Now all common personal computers use a mouse, have a GUI, and a multi-tasking OS. But that's not Amiga's legacy (or Apple's), that's due to Xerox.
This has to be the most rabidly contentious thread yet. AmigaOS, OSX, Windows, Linux - what's the difference?
Your talking about the GUI, which is only a very small part of the system. The CLI played a bigger role on the Amiga than Intuition.
The Apples (Mac) didn't have a real preemptive multitasking OS until OS X in 2000-2001. You had to wait for Windows 95 on the PC side. Amiga had that in 1985. It was one of its main selling point and serve to push the other to develop their own version.
The architecture was also something new and revolutionary at the time.
You should read up on it.
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This has to be the most rabidly contentious thread yet. AmigaOS, OSX, Windows, Linux - what's the difference?
I think its the desire for better "genetic diversity" so to speak. Amiga was the "whole tamale", from hardware to software to end user. These CUSA machines are just the wrapper.
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You misunderstood me... yes, Commodore did have a big competition. That wasn't what I was thinking. What I was thinking is that in 1985 the A1000 was a giant leap forward in home computing. To repeat that today is much more difficult because home computing is on a different level all together.
No it isn't. Quite frankly the home PC market could be considered on its decline presently, being replaced by cheap media boxes, game consoles and iPad, iPod type device.
It is exactly the time to start something new as to restart the fire.
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I think its the desire for better "genetic diversity" so to speak. Amiga was the "whole tamale", from hardware to software to end user. These CUSA machines are just the wrapper.
One could say CUSA are inbred. ;)
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OK now this statement is irksome. Most home users do two things: Look at pictures and surf the web. Linux isn't a great gaming platform not because of the bazaar, but because of DirectX calls and the domination of DirectX over OpenGL. Amiga isn't a great internet browser because of a lack of a good modern browser and extensions. I was surfing the net, playing movies in mplayer, listening to MP3s in xmms on a pentium I (not much faster than the NatAmi specs out at) running debian shortly after my 1200 went south. Most of us oldies have seen the transition. i hardly game on my PC anymore because the console market is as good these days, and in fact, the ports often go the other direction now (console to PC). I know dudes who make it a point to use only P1s and 486s even running Win95. Granted, they're freaks :D If you can survive on a 486 for most tasks, you sure as hell could on a NatAmi.
Your average user today browses internet, plays flash/Java games, soon will also run in-browser 3D games(I'm eagerly awaiting Star Trek: Infinite Space :afro:), watches youtube videos... none of that is possible on any amiga(like) system.
But sure, if you're are a retro-user... I agree Natami will tick all the right boxes :)
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No it isn't. Quite frankly the home PC market could be considered on its decline presently, being replaced by cheap media boxes, game consoles and iPad, iPod type device.
It is exactly the time to start something new as to restart the fire.
the PC market is actually very stable and PC gaming is on the rise. So no worries there...
CUSA are planning a tablet(maybe even a smartphone, although that may be too much from current perspective), but it will not be released that soon.
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Your average user today browses internet, plays flash/Java games, soon will also run in-browser 3D games... watches youtube videos... none of that is possible on any amiga(like) system... :)
WoW..can't you do a wee bit of reading before you post ignorant comments like this
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using leeches as a remedy for all diseases...
Actually it is precisely because of standards that medicine moved on. Standardised testing for the effectiveness of treatments using scientific methodology, standardisation of remedies in tablet forms so as to provide a consistent dosage, standardised training for medical practitioners.
People improve on those standards obviously, but without them, well you can always visit a naturapathic or homoeopathic "doctor" and see how well that works for anything remotely serious.
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And contrary to your beliefs it was even harder to do in 1985 because there was more competition. Commodore had to fight Apple, Atari, IBM, HP etc etc, each one trying to impose their architecture over the other on a limited marketplace (the personal computer market was smaller at that time).
For someone in the know you should learn a bit more about the history of the personal computer before making such remark.
I think you have a rather odd view of computer history.
Back then computers were much more limited so it was possible to do something revolutionary with a relatively small numbers of people and relatively small amount of money. Doing the same today - if it could even be done - would cost Billions (not millions) and require an army of highly qualified people.
As for competition being less, you are kidding? right?
You'll be going up against a massive installed base of pretty much one one highly entrenched system. It's much, much easier to go up against multiple systems in an immature market.
You're basically talking about developing a chipset significantly better than AMD/ATI or Nvidia could develop and producing an OS that would then easily sweep aside Windows - as well as the rest of the PC industry.
You really think that today would be easier than doing it in 1985?
To put it into perspective, the leading PC architecture in 1984 was the Commodore 64.
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.....CUSA are planning a tablet(maybe even a smartphone, although that may be too much from current perspective), but it will not be released that soon.
really a tablet??? so what sticker errr innovation will CUSA be bringing to the tablet market with their 30 million investment money
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I think its the desire for better "genetic diversity" so to speak. Amiga was the "whole tamale", from hardware to software to end user. These CUSA machines are just the wrapper.
Yes. Look, I like x86 + Windows just fine for daily use, but I cannot fathom why everybody regards x86 PC hardware as some sort of "gold standard" that every OS project must be based around. Yes, it's cheap and omnipresent - it's also boring as hell and bletcherous at anything below the API level. I'd be more intrigued by a freakin' Z80 project than by another x86 PC OS.
One could say CUSA are inbred. ;)
One could, but sadly it's true of the computer industry in general these days. There used to be dozens of home-computing platforms based on half a dozen different CPU architectures - now it's down to "x86 PC" or "x86 PC with a less awful BIOS and an Apple logo for 1.5x the money."
really a tablet??? so what sticker errr innovation will CUSA be bringing to the tablet market with their 30 million investment money
Oh, just you wait! They'll come up with a genius new design that totally won't be a cheap Atom board plus a touchscreen kit from NewEgg, and a whole brand new re-skinning of a standard Linux distro!
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WoW..can't you do a wee bit of reading before you post ignorant comments like this
Which part was wrong? Any amiga-related OS has Java or Flash? Unity 3d?
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Your average user today browses internet, plays flash/Java games, soon will also run in-browser 3D games(I'm eagerly awaiting Star Trek: Infinite Space :afro:), watches youtube videos... none of that is possible on any amiga(like) system.
But sure, if you're are a retro-user... I agree Natami will tick all the right boxes :)
Or any "modern" system today. This is the cloud-type world, where your tablet of choice logs in and accesses your content. The OS becomes "meaningless" to the end user- the 3D tv you bought is the monitor, some set top box is the gateway, and your tablet the controls. When you go somewhere, the tablet comes along and checks in on the 4g network. But for all of us old curmudgeons who'll have to maintain the Emerald Curtain, how much power do we need to just DO WORK?
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That's not the whole deal... Amiga made it available to a lot bigger audience for a lot less money. 14 000 $ in the 80s... you could probably buy a few cars for that then :)
The Amiga 1000 sold for $1,600.00 in 1985, not exactly short change. Why do you think the C64 sold up until the 1990.
The A500 was the first affordable Amiga for the masses.
BTW about the cell based computer, you would not be the first since Toshiba & IBM already use it in their system, and so does Sony. You wouldn't be starting from scratch. There is even already a linux distrib for the cell if you still want to go that way. The fun would be to include a good parallel processing lib with it and watch the interest of the hacking community try to exploit the vast resources of the system. That would be a revolution. Not just bringing back a beige colored keyboard case.
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Your average user today browses internet, plays flash/Java games, soon will also run in-browser 3D games(I'm eagerly awaiting Star Trek: Infinite Space :afro:), watches youtube videos... none of that is possible on any amiga(like) system.
But sure, if you're are a retro-user... I agree Natami will tick all the right boxes :)
And soon, most of it will be available directly on my TV, no need for a computer...
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The Amiga 1000 sold for $1,600.00 in 1985, not exactly short change. Why do you think the C64 sold up until the 1990.
The A500 was the first affordable Amiga for the masses.
BTW about the cell based computer, you would not be the first since Toshiba & IBM already use it in their system, and so does Sony. You wouldn't be starting from scratch. There is even already a linux distrib for the cell if you still want to go that way. The fun would be to include a good parallel processing lib with it and watch the interest of the hacking community try to exploit the vast resources of the system. That would be a revolution. Not just bringing back a beige colored keyboard case.
Cell processors found in some consoles are not available on the free market. The end.
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Which part was wrong? Any amiga-related OS has Java or Flash? Unity 3d?
Well to be fair Morphos can do flash in the browser pretty well. =]
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the PC market is actually very stable and PC gaming is on the rise. So no worries there...
CUSA are planning a tablet(maybe even a smartphone, although that may be too much from current perspective), but it will not be released that soon.
PC market is stagnant, and so is PC gaming. Except for FPS and WoW what do you play that can't be played on a console or even a phone?
You seem to think that the young teen posting on Digg are the majority of PC buying market. Things have changed. You are 10 years too late in the PC game. Even game review show like Reviews on the Run spend more time these days talking about iPhone/iPad games than PC games. Also the Wii, Sony Move and the new XBox system are bringing new customer who aren't interested in sitting in front of a PC in a dark basement all days exploding heads or melting faces.
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Well to be fair Morphos can do flash in the browser pretty well. =]
I stand corrected. :)
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Actually it is precisely because of standards that medicine moved on. Standardised testing for the effectiveness of treatments using scientific methodology, standardisation of remedies in tablet forms so as to provide a consistent dosage, standardised training for medical practitioners.
People improve on those standards obviously, but without them, well you can always visit a naturapathic or homoeopathic "doctor" and see how well that works for anything remotely serious.
Are you really trying to twist the meaning of what I have said?
You bloody well know that is nobody as the courage to go against the flow then nothing changes. It has nothing to do about the standard size of a pill or either you shove a suppository up yours ...
Improving on standard is like adding a new floor on an already shaky foundation. Someone has to decide to bring it down and start anew sometime.
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Cell processors found in some consoles are not available on the free market. The end.
There are no words...
Just cards (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Cell+Pcie+card)
And they are available for purchase, massively expensive, but still available and have been for quite a while.
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Well to be fair Morphos can do flash in the browser pretty well. =]
don't bother it's blatantly obvious AI & CUSA don't care enough about the community to know what's going on now or what's just around the corner
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Leo wolf up his moon is funny.
Hate to break it to you, but WTTM is not Leo, wrong part of the world.
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PC market is stagnant, and so is PC gaming.
PC gaming is not stagnant... it's actually on the rise, although less so than some consoles.
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Or any "modern" system today. This is the cloud-type world, where your tablet of choice logs in and accesses your content. The OS becomes "meaningless" to the end user- the 3D tv you bought is the monitor, some set top box is the gateway, and your tablet the controls. When you go somewhere, the tablet comes along and checks in on the 4g network. But for all of us old curmudgeons who'll have to maintain the Emerald Curtain, how much power do we need to just DO WORK?
Yeah, like I want to buy into that scam. Cloud computing? Halarious! I should place everything on the internet, why? So I can continue to pay for something I could easily do at home?
Social networking, internet access, etc. - yeah that I can see paying for those. But doing word processing via an internet connection? No, that's just dumb.
How much power do I need? As much as I can get because there will always be some app to waste it on. I'll leave it to you (and others that think like you) to buy the intentionally limited hardware.
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Are you really trying to twist the meaning of what I have said?
Are you really trying to dismiss all standards?
You bloody well know that is nobody as the courage to go against the flow then nothing changes. It has nothing to do about the standard size of a pill or either you shove a suppository up yours ...
You need to chill the hell out sunbeam. It was precisely because of public demand for better, more effective medicines that brought about standardisation. Just another thing the Victorians did for us.
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I think its the desire for better "genetic diversity" so to speak. Amiga was the "whole tamale", from hardware to software to end user. These CUSA machines are just the wrapper.
Which can also be said about A1 and SAM440. Sam440 being a higher quality machine, of course.
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I think you have a rather odd view of computer history.
Back then computers were much more limited so it was possible to do something revolutionary with a relatively small numbers of people and relatively small amount of money. Doing the same today - if it could even be done - would cost Billions (not millions) and require an army of highly qualified people.
As for competition being less, you are kidding? right?
You'll be going up against a massive installed base of pretty much one one highly entrenched system. It's much, much easier to go up against multiple systems in an immature market.
You're basically talking about developing a chipset significantly better than AMD/ATI or Nvidia could develop and producing an OS that would then easily sweep aside Windows - as well as the rest of the PC industry.
You really think that today would be easier than doing it in 1985?
To put it into perspective, the leading PC architecture in 1984 was the Commodore 64.
So ok, we all roll over and die then.
BTW it wouldn't be that hard doing better than NVidia and Ati lately considering how their overpriced card consumed more power than my space heater and they are so buggy as to necessitate weekly drivers updates.
It would be easier today. The tools needed to design them are more powerful today than they were in 1985, and engineer are better trained today in that field. The manufacture plants are also better and more efficient.
God, with attitude and views like that we would have never made it out in space.
As for the entrenched base statement, ask Apple about it. Nobody would have given them a chance in the late 90's but look what innovation did to them. You have to take risk if you want to progress.
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Yeah, like I want to buy into that scam. Cloud computing? Halarious! I should place everything on the internet, why? So I can continue to pay for something I could easily do at home?
Social networking, internet access, etc. - yeah that I can see paying for those. But doing word processing via an internet connection? No, that's just dumb.
How much power do I need? As much as I can get because there will always be some app to waste it on. I'll leave it to you (and others that think like you) to buy the intentionally limited hardware.
The cloud is inevitable for most users. People will pay for convenience and instant access to the web from whatever easily portable device they have. I watch people every day word process on ipads and google docs. its here already. Don;t shoot me for pointing out the blatantly obvious. The simple fact is that you ARE the freakish minority these days. When a RTS like SC2 comes to a console and the top world player is some ADHD tweek who can zerg rush with the kinect faster than you can type, its game over desktop. It just so happens that there are other Freakish minority members as well, the ones who like squeezing out the most of their silicon. No need to get so weird about it. It is about the MASS market- and we all ain't in it by a damn sight.
EDIT: Powermac Quicksilver w/ 1.8Ghz Sonnett CPU card, 1GB memory, Radeon 9200 video card, and SB Live Audio card - running MorphOS 2.7 and Ubuntu...Not trying to be a dick, but you realize that this setup is already way behind the power curve, right?
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The cloud is inevitable for most users. People will pay for convenience and instant access to the web from whatever easily portable device they have. I watch people every day word process on ipads and google docs. its here already. Don;t shoot me for pointing out the blatantly obvious. The simple fact is that you ARE the freakish minority these days. When a RTS like SC2 comes to a console and the top world player is some ADHD tweek who can zerg rush with the kinect faster than you can type, its game over desktop. It just so happens that there are other Freakish minority members as well, the ones who like squeezing out the most of their silicon. No need to get so weird about it. It is about the MASS market- and we all ain't in it by a damn sight.
I don't think I'll ever succumb to the cloud computing idea. I like my important stuff to be near me, thank you very much. :)
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Cell processors found in some consoles are not available on the free market. The end.
Have you asked?
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Are you really trying to dismiss all standards?
You need to chill the hell out sunbeam. It was precisely because of public demand for better, more effective medicines that brought about standardisation. Just another thing the Victorians did for us.
Actually Leander,
I agree with you on most of this, but I'll nit pick one point. Standardized dosages (in medecine) aren't the greatest idea. Why would you give the same dose of medecine to an anorexic 100 pound woman that you would to a 250 lb football player?
Vetrinarians worry about appropriate dosage (based on body weight) more than most doctors do. Not all people respond to medications the same way and people vary greatly in size, but frequently doctors treat patients as if human beings have been standardized (and what works for one can invariably be applied to another).
That's why I'm very selective with the doctors I go to (a degree does not make one eqiuivent to another). Good diagnosis and careful consideration of the patient are still required for proper treatment.
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Cell processors found in some consoles are not available on the free market. The end.
The PowerXCell 8i has been available from IBM for a couple of years.
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I don't think I'll ever succumb to the cloud computing idea. I like my important stuff to be near me, thank you very much. :)
I "succumb" to it every day! Picasa...flickr...gmail...its great to have data redundancy for free what would cost me thousands at home to set up as secure a backup/storage plan.
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Are you really trying to dismiss all standards?
You need to chill the hell out sunbeam. It was precisely because of public demand for better, more effective medicines that brought about standardisation. Just another thing the Victorians did for us.
Nope not dismiss all standard. But sometime to innovate you have to go outside of them.
You don't need to follow all standard either to be able to function in the modern world. The only place where standard are important is in the exchange of information, not how or by what it is processed.
What if I'm using a PC, a Mac or an Schmoo2k11 system as long as I can communicate with you in such a way that you can understand it doesn't matter. But my Schmoo2k11 doesn't have to be a PC or a Mac, it doesn't have to use the same hardware or work at the same speed than the PC or Mac.
You don't have to be standard all the way. Being standard all the way, all the time brings a vision of Borg or Big Brother society.
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That's what I was thinking. desktop PC's are an almost dead market these days. retro looking desktop PC's are not going to go anywhere either. PC's are being replaced by Phones & Tablets now.
AmigaOS is a Hobby OS to many folks that visit here. I'm not sure why This Wolf guy keeps talking down to us like where not aware of the modern world?
PC market is stagnant, and so is PC gaming. Except for FPS and WoW what do you play that can't be played on a console or even a phone?
You seem to think that the young teen posting on Digg are the majority of PC buying market. Things have changed. You are 10 years too late in the PC game. Even game review show like Reviews on the Run spend more time these days talking about iPhone/iPad games than PC games. Also the Wii, Sony Move and the new XBox system are bringing new customer who aren't interested in sitting in front of a PC in a dark basement all days exploding heads or melting faces.
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So ok, we all roll over and die then.
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/the_leander/Picard-no-facepalm.jpg)
BTW it wouldn't be that hard doing better than NVidia and Ati lately considering how their overpriced card consumed more power than my space heater and they are so buggy as to necessitate weekly drivers updates.
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/the_leander/Lolwutpear.jpg)
Do you have any concept of just how powerful and capable a modern GPGPU is? How complex they have become? How many billions are involved in their development? How much middleware is included in those drivers?
It would be easier today. The tools needed to design them are more powerful today than they were in 1985, and engineer are better trained today in that field. The manufacture plants are also better and more efficient.
Right, all you need now is a few hundred billion to get your idea off the ground, as well as enough capital to maintain that pace for some time to come. Because until you do, all I'm seeing from you is
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/the_leander/shark_derp_durr_hurr.jpg)
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The PowerXCell 8i has been available from IBM for a couple of years.
Who is actually using it as a desktop?
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Actually Leander,
I agree with you on most of this, but I'll nit pick one point. Standardized dosages (in medecine) aren't the greatest idea. Why would you give the same dose of medecine to an anorexic 100 pound woman that you would to a 250 lb football player?
With respect, it doesn't work like that, and there are standards to cover differences in weight too. All part of NICE (http://www.nice.org.uk/).
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Also how fun will it be when someone comes to your house and mocks you when they see a Commodore 64 under the TV and you suddenly show them it running Modern day software and playing blu ray movies
And their retort will be:
http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/c64/
Note the "Posted on April 28, 2003" date :)
Sure, the 933mhz CPU in that C-64 Mini ITX build is dated by todays standards, but the concept of throwing PC hardware in an old retro case is far from new, and certainly doesn't make it anything other than a PC in a retro case running emulation.
I hope C-USA brings solid offerings that people are interested in buying, but the things they are doing are far from inventive.
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Who is actually using it as a desktop?
As far as I can see they're used as coprocessors only for a variety of very specialised tasks as well as blade systems.
But no one is using it as the basis for a desktop processor again, afaik.
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OMG, the herpaderp sharks have invaded the thread.
Everybody, lollerskate to your nearest exit!
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With respect, it doesn't work like that, and there are standards to cover differences in weight too. All part of NICE (http://www.nice.org.uk/).
With all respect to you man, it DOES work just like that. And it illustrates how your Vet might be a better physician than your family doctor. All medicine dosages, if they were properly given, would be calculated on a per lb body weight basis.
As I've said, human beings are not standardized, but many physicians only give weight variance minor consideration.
Having taken both physiology and anatomy, I'd feel more comfortable with many Vets (as opposed to the average doctor).
And having grown up with a significant part of my family employed in the medical profession, I worry when I see too many people blindly following their doctors suggestions.
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(http://www.goozex.com/community/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/30/7608.must_5F00_not_5F00_feed_5F00_the_5F00_troll.jpg)
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Who is actually using it as a desktop?
PowerXCell 8i? No one is using it as the line has been discontinued. IBM has not completely written off the Cell, but the only processor currently in production is a die shrunk version of the original Cell BE.
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God, with attitude and views like that we would have never made it out in space.
The Canadian's have a space program? When did that occur?
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The Canadian's have a space program? When did that occur?
They actually do have. And before being destroyed with the cancellation of the Avro Arrow project, Canada had one of the strongest aeronautical industries around.
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With all respect to you man, it DOES work just like that.
You might want to tell NICE and the hpa that they should stop ignoring your claims (http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1243581475043). And that was just one example of a specific set of drugs.
if they were properly given, would be calculated on a per lb body weight basis.
They are.
Having taken both physiology and anatomy, I'd feel more comfortable with many Vets (as opposed to the average doctor).
If standards are as low as you imply, I don't blame you.
And having grown up with a significant part of my family employed in the medical profession, I worry when I see too many people blindly following their doctors suggestions.
There are NICE guidelines specifically spell out dosage ranges for given patients weights on a per drug basis. They're there if you look for them. Apparently just another way our evil socialist death panel system beats the US one...
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They actually do have. And before being destroyed with the cancellation of the Avro Arrow project, Canada had one of the strongest aeronautical industries around.
Well then the Canuck must understand how it feels to see other nations that haven't previously lead this race take the led.
Its not pleasant thinking of Chinese lunar colonies when we have no agreement about the militarization of space with the Chinese.
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Canada? Whats that? Is that the company that makes that great ginger ale?
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(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx228/dymediggler/Stills/Oxqtc-1.jpg)
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Well then the Canuck must understand how it feels to see other nations that haven't previously lead this race take the led.
Its not pleasant thinking of Chinese lunar colonies when we have no agreement about the militarization of space with the Chinese.
Well, Canada's aeronautical industry was destroyed in great part by it's southern friend. Many of the very talented canadian engineers went on to work in the USA and some of them gave a good effort on the Apollo project.
As to Avro Arrow CF-105, it was a plane to pioneer fly-by-wire and it's engines were matched in power only by F-22s engines some 30 years later. All made in Canada :) ... Then destroyed because of the political pressure from south of the border
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You might want to tell NICE and the hpa that they should stop ignoring your claims (http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1243581475043). And that was just one example of a specific set of drugs.
They are.
If standards are as low as you imply, I don't blame you.
There are NICE guidelines specifically spell out dosage ranges for given patients weights on a per drug basis. They're there if you look for them. Apparently just another way our evil socialist death panel system beats the US one...
Actually, I just don't place my faith or my well being in the hands of others as casually as you (or many others) do.
I'm glad your so impressecd with NICE and the concept of dosage "ranges".
It still looks like a way of dumbing down a concept of dosage control to me.
And, no, I don't think the standards of my education were that low. Most of you wouldn't have been able to pass those courses. I had a GPA of 3.89 at the time and still felt relieved to get out of Physiology with a low B.
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Actually, I just don't place my faith or my well being in the hands of others as casually as you (or many others) do.
Casually? Pfft.
I'm glad your so impressecd with NICE and the concept of dosage "ranges".
As with engineering there is always a certain tolerance to work within. Why should the human body be any different?
The reason there are ranges is because people are different, what might be enough for one person might not be for another of the same body weight.
The point is it completely blows out of the water your initial claim, at least for the UK.
It still looks like a way of dumbing down a concept of dosage control to me.
NICE guidelines are written by panels of experts who trawl through research papers and put together more readily accessible documentation for people on the front line, who for the most part really don't have the time to spend months at a time getting the latest research into a given medicine and weighing it up against previous research any time they want to give someone a shot.
And, no, I don't think the standards of my education were that low. Most of you wouldn't have been able to pass those courses. I had a GPA of 3.89 at the time and still felt relieved to get out of Physiology with a low B.
You might want to go back and read what I actually said, I didn't aim the comment at you, in fact I'm fairly certain it was aimed at your medical profession, again, if your claims about the US system are correct. Which I'm sorry to say I really doubt, since a lot of the papers that are sourced to put together NICE guidelines come from the US.
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(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx228/dymediggler/Stills/Oxqtc-1.jpg)
Quotin' this.
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Quotin' this.
Quote acknowledged.
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snip...
Maybe if you read what was written instead of trying to win at all cost an argument on the internet then your post wouldn't be as juvenile.
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Casually? Pfft.
As with engineering there is always a certain tolerance to work within. Why should the human body be any different?
The reason there are ranges is because people are different, what might be enough for one person might not be for another of the same body weight.
The point is it completely blows out of the water your initial claim, at least for the UK.
NICE guidelines are written by panels of experts who trawl through research papers and put together more readily accessible documentation for people on the front line, who for the most part really don't have the time to spend months at a time getting the latest research into a given medicine and weighing it up against previous research any time they want to give someone a shot.
You might want to go back and read what I actually said, I didn't aim the comment at you, in fact I'm fairly certain it was aimed at your medical profession, again, if your claims about the US system are correct. Which I'm sorry to say I really doubt, since a lot of the papers that are sourced to put together NICE guidelines come from the US.
Alan, I have no interest in disputing your apparent faith in the medical profession or its "experts". Although one of the people who I trust most in that field once defined expert to me as "anyone who makes three correct guesses in a row".
Nor do I want to compare the health care systems in our respective countries as I already know the US has the best health care no one can afford.
Our opinions, our points of view just vary.
I remember (growing up) my father coming home one day from work angrier than I'd ever seen him.
Initially he would tell me what was bothering him, although through the night I'd occasionally hear him make comments like "son of bitch should have retired long ago".
the next day I asked my mother what had happened. She told me that during surgery an elderly doctor's hand had slipped and he had punctured the patient's aorta with his thumb. "And your father is particularly upset because all he said was 'whoops'", my mother told me.
"Whoops!", your dead. Doctors are human, and this is not the only horrors story I got to find out about growing up.
So take it whatever way you want. I am very careful who I place my life in the hand off.
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Who is actually using it as a desktop?
That is the point. Bring it on.
Computer were once the domain of business alone but the tech did trickle down to us.
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The Canadian's have a space program? When did that occur?
canadarm, the landing gear on the moon lander, many astronauts... you were saying?
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They actually do have. And before being destroyed with the cancellation of the Avro Arrow project, Canada had one of the strongest aeronautical industries around.
Eh, something we finally agree on.
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Alan, I have no interest in disputing your apparent faith in the medical profession or its "experts". Although one of the people who I trust most in that field once defined expert to me as "anyone who makes three correct guesses in a row".
I wouldn't really be bothered if you did tbh, but medical science and it's practical application works for the most part, it's really not up for discussion. The whole point was about a single claim you made, which it turns out is incorrect. That's all.
Nor do I want to compare the health care systems in our respective countries as I already know the US has the best health care no one can afford.
Our opinions, our points of view just vary.
And I'll imagine they'll vary still more over time, at least on this one particular issue. But it's all good and part of life's rich tapestry.
I remember (growing up) my father coming home one day from work angrier than I'd ever seen him.
Initially he would tell me what was bothering him, although through the night I'd occasionally hear him make comments like "son of bitch should have retired long ago".
the next day I asked my mother what had happened. She told me that during surgery an elderly doctor's hand had slipped and he had punctured the patient's aorta with his thumb. "And your father is particularly upset because all he said was 'whoops'", my mother told me.
"Whoops!", your dead. Doctors are human, and this is not the only horrors story I got to find out about growing up.
So take it whatever way you want. I am very careful who I place my life in the hand off.
Whilst I fully respect the above may well have been a powerful influence on your view of the entire medical profession, I think perhaps you might want to look further afield to develop a broader view of it all. I don't do anecdotal evidence. Nor do I base my views on individual incidents, bad choices are made that way. YMMV
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Quote acknowledged.
Acknowledgement quoted.
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CUSA are planning a tablet(maybe even a smartphone, although that may be too much from current perspective), but it will not be released that soon.
Wow, CUSA is a bigger player than I thought. Why, I bet all these big plans prove that the Amiga brand is still very valuable as a brand. Amiga Inc. ought to get top offer for it, since it's apparently for sale.
Some might even theorize that's the whole idea here.
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Acknowledgement quoted.
Quotin' this...
See also... (http://bash.org/?23396)
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Wow, CUSA is a bigger player than I thought. Why, I bet all these big plans prove that the Amiga brand is still very valuable as a brand. Amiga Inc. ought to get top offer for it, since it's apparently for sale.
Some might even theorize that's the whole idea here.
Penny stock scam again?
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I'm not saying that I wouldn't LOVE to get ahold of an "Amiga on a Joystick" type thing, if I could just convince Jeri to get off her proverbial butt and make one, but I'm not delusional enough to expect the next revolutionary platform to have an Amiga sticker on it.
That doesn't explain why we should be happy about a butt ugly PC +Linux UAE combo for a huge markup.
I think I speak for all intelligent true Amigans when I say better to have nothing ever again than see that name on such an abomination.
If it doesn't have OCS/AGA chips and the faclity to play my original Cinemaware floppy disks it ain't a real Amiga anyway ;)
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Penny stock scam again?
What ticker symbol??
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I wouldn't really be bothered if you did tbh, but medical science and it's practical application works for the most part, it's really not up for discussion. The whole point was about a single claim you made, which it turns out is incorrect. That's all.
Well, we will just have to agree to disagree on that point. I can think of a handful of drugs that don't require dosage per body weight consideration, but most do and the way its done is more primative than the same considerations in Animal Science,.
And I'll imagine they'll vary still more over time, at least on this one particular issue. But it's all good and part of life's rich tapestry.
Oh this debate will rage on for some time, but things aways do seem to improve, so I'll agree it IS all good.
Whilst I fully respect the above may well have been a powerful influence on your view of the entire medical profession, I think perhaps you might want to look further afield to develop a broader view of it all. I don't do anecdotal evidence. Nor do I base my views on individual incidents, bad choices are made that way. YMMV
You are right that anecdotal evidence is a poor basis for a valid analytical decision. But when it comes to medical professionals, we don't have much else to go one (when a Dr. only loses his/her license due to multiple grievous mistakes and the industry is so close mouthed), Generally, I'll give someone in the profession the benefit of the doubt, but I temper that with a healthy skepticism about placing my faith in any mere mortal.
BTW - What do you think of CUSA and their website? :)
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What ticker symbol??
they must be present on one of the Caribbean island stock exchange :)
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BTW - What do you think of CUSA and their website? :)
The first one was miserable... This one is much better, but still really not "up there" with the best. But, I did hear that a completely new web page is a good probability in due time.
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That doesn't explain why we should be happy about a butt ugly PC +Linux UAE combo for a huge markup.
Agreed, but I have to draw a parallel between your PC/Linux/UAE combo and paying well over a thousand dollars for buggy, out-dated, beta-level PPC hardware, even if it is new and running an OS without any hope of new software development.
Ok, ok, I'm sorry, I know. I'll shut up now. The PPC argument doesn't sway many around here who're determined to stick with it. I just wish AROS would have taken off, or even been picked up as the official OS instead of the dead-end PPC 4.x...
Nothing new here, so why do I find it so impossible to shut up about? Guess I'm still passionate about something Amiga after all, even if I am on the minority side.
Wayne
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Agreed, but I have to draw a parallel between your PC/Linux/UAE combo and paying well over a thousand dollars for buggy, out-dated, beta-level PPC hardware, even if it is new and running an OS without any hope of new software development.
Ok, ok, I'm sorry, I know. I'll shut up now. The PPC argument doesn't sway many around here who're determined to stick with it. I just wish AROS would have taken off, or even been picked up as the official OS instead of the dead-end PPC 4.x...
Nothing new here, so why do I find it so impossible to shut up about? Guess I'm still passionate about something Amiga after all, even if I am on the minority side.
Wayne
See my sig.
AROS *is* the official Commodore Amiga OS5. We own the rights to the names in all non-aligned countries and a few more.
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Agreed, but I have to draw a parallel between your PC/Linux/UAE combo and paying well over a thousand dollars for buggy, out-dated, beta-level PPC hardware, even if it is new and running an OS without any hope of new software development.
Ok, ok, I'm sorry, I know. I'll shut up now. The PPC argument doesn't sway many around here who're determined to stick with it. I just wish AROS would have taken off, or even been picked up as the official OS instead of the dead-end PPC 4.x...
Nothing new here, so why do I find it so impossible to shut up about? Guess I'm still passionate about something Amiga after all, even if I am on the minority side.
Wayne
Damn, I've been as willing to give CUSA the benefit of the doubt, But I do feel PPCs are more closely related to the general concept of legacy Amiga's than any X86 design. X86 processors don't even have the same endian design. PPC, ARM? I could deal with those. Not having the right to call it an Amiga? I can deal with that (especially if an 'Amiga' is now a Wintel machine). But giving up and surrendering.
No f'ing way.
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If you guys called that piece of sh8t Teron aka "Amiga1" motherboard an "Amiga" you surely should call this atom based unit one, especially since the brand name is owned by them!
@ Wayne
I've been loving your comments you should post more often.. : ) The real problem with OS4 project is like you said, no possibility of new software.. as it is it took a Morphos Developer (Fab) to help out with the os4 port of OWB after a main OS4 developer (joerg) abandoned it!
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@ Wayne
I've been loving your comments you should post more often.. : ) The real problem with OS4 project is like you said, no possibility of new software.. as it is it took a Morphos Developer (Fab) to help out with the os4 port of OWB after a main OS4 developer (joerg) abandoned it!
well there's been some great new software and ports coming out lately...Hollywood, Blender and Timberwolf to name a few. As for Fab helping out kas1e on the OWB port..yes that's great as a temporary small gap but I'm sure most of us are awaiting the final release of Timberwolf with much more excitement ;)
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well there's been some great new software and ports coming out lately...Hollywood, Blender and Timberwolf to name a few. As for Fab helping out kas1e on the OWB port..yes that's great as a temporary small gap but I'm sure most of us are awaiting the final release of Timberwolf with much more excitement ;)
Why? Firefox is a bloated piece of crap.
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Well, we will just have to agree to disagree on that point.
I can live with that.
Generally, I'll give someone in the profession the benefit of the doubt, but I temper that with a healthy skepticism about placing my faith in any mere mortal.
Fair enough.
BTW - What do you think of CUSA and their website? :)
Honestly? A bit "meh". I neither like nor dislike it, when I saw the revamp I realised that after all the nonsense that had gone on, I really didn't care about them. Their product range if it ever ships on some fronts looks mildly interesting, although I'll be blunt and say that an all in one keyboard style unit simply doesn't do it for me, it never did even when I had a wedge 1200. The case for their big box system looks the business however.
That said my next computer purchase is likely going to be something like an older shoebox pc (like a first gen AMD64) that I can use a media server/nas/mucking around. For "desktop" use I'll likely stick with my Asus F5 and replace it with another 17ins laptop when the day arrives, for portable I have my EeePC 701 which goes everywhere with me which I'll again get another netbook when it gets retired.
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Why? Firefox is a bloated piece of crap.
hey that's fine...you probably like Apple products too I bet...fine for you & to each his own etc.
FF has been my main browser on my notebook since it came out....the Apha release for AmigaOS4.1u2 is lightning fast..actually faster than my PC so can't wait till the final release is here !
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hey that's fine...you probably like Apple products too I bet...fine for you & to each his own etc.
FF has been my main browser on my notebook since it came out....the Apha release for AmigaOS4.1u2 is lightning fast..actually faster than my PC so can't wait till the final release is here !
I've used Firefox since it was called Phoenix.
It's a bloated piece of crap.
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Let's see
custom cases
custom packaging(thread over at C-A.org)
custom Linux distro(with a possibility of becoming a custom OS in the future)
possible app market
sure seems like a lot of sticker slapping, doesn't it?
Yup it does. There's nothing new here, nothing I don't already have, nothing new I can't already buy or download. I can even make my own case too if I chose. I don't. They do have a cute little C64x clone case that will appeal to a market and I wish them well with that.
I'm totally lost with the rest of your fan-dom though. "Hoo-ray some company selling things named Amiga *might* make a profit! The rest of you are foolish for not cheering too."
At no benefit to the other products (hobby or not) we prefer to engage in. Perhaps you're campaigning to be their marketing director?
Plaz
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I've used Firefox since it was called Phoenix.
It's a bloated piece of crap.
ok then perhaps you can team up with AI & CUSA to make a better web browser for your Workbench 5 iranian version eh...I'm sure many of us here will be waiting:razz:
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Perhaps you're campaigning to be their marketing director?
Plaz
Hey don't knock it, it worked for the other guy :lol:
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.... Perhaps you're campaigning to be their marketing director?
Plaz
why not...hey Leo..you got some spare room in that garage AI is working out of:lol:
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ok then perhaps you can team up with AI & CUSA to make a better web browser for your Workbench 5 iranian version eh...I'm sure many of us here will be waiting:razz:
We already have a faster and more standards compliant web browser.
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ok then perhaps you can team up with AI & CUSA to make a better web browser for your Workbench 5 iranian version eh...I'm sure many of us here will be waiting:razz:
I would say Fab's version of OWB is far better then firefox ... but that's me. =]
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I hope the CUSA has some other plans in mind beside competing as yet another Win/Linux based clone distributor. Else I predict this ride will be over in a very short term.
Maybe the plan is basically to continue as a cool custom case maker? And what better way to get some startup publicity than to grab a classic name badge. Clever idea actually.
I don't mean to, and I'm not trying to disparage CUSA, but I can't help but be reminded of another startup that was once related to a company/hobby that I also currently partcipate in.
Here's a link to that very old and odd story.
http://www.barthworks.com/cars/electriccars/1979solargen.htm
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(I don't really care whether they have the legal rights to the name or not)
AND
They don't really care what you think, they pais there money and theis does there thing.
( - they're still trying to sell a standard x86 PC as somehow being a "new Amiga.")
Looks new to me, I never saw an Amiga Box using an X86, just think an Amiga Box using a Intel or AMD quad core. Now that is power and new.
(If that's the case, the genericlone Pentium 4 workstation I'm typing on is as much an Amiga as what they're selling,)
Pentium 4, Good God we dumped that trash 10 years ago, where you living in the dark ages. My oldest computer (besides the Amiga) is a intel core 2 dual, heck, I don't even think the salvation army would take that Pentium 4 now.
( and I didn't have to sit around looking at terrible POV-ray renders and wondering how much the distributor was going to charge me for it.)
Neither do I my AMD 1090T 6 core AMD processor does it just fine, and only uses 12% of my processing power.
Face it look at todays computers, heck even a five year old MAC is outdoing the Amiga, and we have WAYNE to verify that. You guys are sounding just like the IBM fan boys when the Amiga first came out:
1. It uses a different underpowered processor.
2. It isn't compatible
3. Why use a mouse a keyboard is much faster (Bill Gates)
4. Multi tasking - I can only do one thing at a time, what do I need that for.
5. Stereo Sound - come on, on a computer, if I want to listen to music I will turn on my
stereo and listen to good music.
6. Look at their dos, on mine all I have to do is type in C: what is this DF0: HD0: junk.
7. What programs are they going to run, it just doesn't meet the business standards.
8. The Amiga's disks can't be used in an IBM, it is the wrong format.
9. Ham, yea I had some the other day for dinner.
I will wait and see before I pass judgement.
smerf
but then again I always did say just accept Amiga Forever as the new Amiga, it works, works well, and I likes it.
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Hey don't knock it, it worked for the other guy :lol:
Based on the few conversations we've had, I think BigBen took on the job really believing it would be a positive for the old community.
I also suspect based on other threads and postings since then, that the realities of the business have probably altered the original vision.
Darth Vader: "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further." ;)
Plaz
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I hope the CUSA has some other plans in mind beside competing as yet another Win/Linux based clone distributor. Else I predict this ride will be over in a very short term.
Maybe the plan is basically to continue as a cool custom case maker? And what better way to get some startup publicity than to grab a classic name badge. Clever idea actually.
I don't mean to, and I'm not trying to disparage CUSA, but I can't help but be reminded of another startup that was once related to a company/hobby that I also currently partcipate in.
Here's a link to that very old and odd story.
http://www.barthworks.com/cars/electriccars/1979solargen.htm
re Solargen: What is it with Americans and wood-grain on station wagons? :)
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I can live with that.
Fair enough.
Honestly? A bit "meh". I neither like nor dislike it, when I saw the revamp I realised that after all the nonsense that had gone on, I really didn't care about them. Their product range if it ever ships on some fronts looks mildly interesting, although I'll be blunt and say that an all in one keyboard style unit simply doesn't do it for me, it never did even when I had a wedge 1200. The case for their big box system looks the business however.
That said my next computer purchase is likely going to be something like an older shoebox pc (like a first gen AMD64) that I can use a media server/nas/mucking around. For "desktop" use I'll likely stick with my Asus F5 and replace it with another 17ins laptop when the day arrives, for portable I have my EeePC 701 which goes everywhere with me which I'll again get another netbook when it gets retired.
Well there are some more things we agree on. I think if you're going to still use a desktop, it ought to be compact (media servers really interest me).
And, with the drop in laptop prices, its hard not to just recommend them for most uses.
CUSA biggest mistake may be not having a laptop.
BTW - I too have a few A64s. Back when everyone was buying P4s I had a hard time explaining why this was a superior processor. Its interesting how that one worked out.
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I really don't get the fascination with Wedges, the longest any 1200 has lasted in my house without being put in a proper tower is three months...
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Face it look at todays computers, heck even a five year old MAC is outdoing the Amiga, and we have WAYNE to verify that. You guys are sounding just like the IBM fan boys when the Amiga first came out:
Well, as I said earlier in the thread, I don't have a problem with people who want to run Amiga-like OSes on Intel hardware. Certainly your typical x86 desktop these days offers a whole lot more oomph than any actual 68k Amiga hardware, or even the various PowerPC-based machines the MorphOS/OS4 users swear by. What I have a problem with is this company proposing to take standard PC hardware, slap it in an Amiga-reminiscent case from another manufacturer, load it up with a public-domain operating system that's been re-skinned to look like Workbench, and sell it with the brand of a classic computer with which it has nearly nothing in common in hardware, in software, or in spirit, and then expect people to go "ALL HAIL THE NEW AMIGA! IT IS RISEN INDEED!" I don't claim to be the ultimate arbiter of what "Amiga" is, but I'm pretty certain it's not "generic hardware + slightly customized packaging + graphics-hacked free OS + MAGICAL AMIGA BRAND."
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@ coldfish,
(re Solargen: What is it with Americans and wood-grain on station wagons?)
1. It has class.
2. It is stylish
3. It makes a good surfer mobile
4. Woodies are always in style.
smerf
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4. Woodies are always in style.
smerf
and that can mean something entirely different in the USA... :D
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@Darrin
LOL!!!
smef
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and that can mean something entirely different in the USA... :D
Yes, even my wife would agree, woodies are ALWAYS in style.
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Pentium 4, Good God we dumped that trash 10 years ago, where you living in the dark ages.
Wow you threw away 2 month old machines!! (as the Pentium 4 was launched November 2000).
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re Solargen: What is it with Americans and wood-grain on station wagons? :)
You mean everyone doesn't do it? :)
After thinking about it for a minute, I think I came up with a nice answer....
It's just a continuation of our early history and style from the begining of trans American travel when our wagons were actually made out of wood. ... like this.....
http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch:1&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&gs_rfai=&q=wagon%20conestoga
Plaz
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You mean everyone doesn't do it? :)
After thinking about it for a minute, I think I came up with a nice answer....
It's just a continuation of our early history and style from the begining of trans American travel when our wagons were actually made out of wood. ... like this.....
http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch:1&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&gs_rfai=&q=wagon%20conestoga
Plaz
You can even go farther than that in history:
http://www.instructables.com/image/FHYKN1GF82EU8HQ/Toddler-Flintstone-Car.jpg
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:WnDyKKovHnIdBM:http://www.comptropolis.com/article/images_1/flintstones-car.jpg&t=1
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*looks at his P4 daily driver....
Garbage? I can play 1080p matroskas on it...geforce 7000...I can code java in eclipse and python in vim. I could also do that on a MorphOS box. I'll toss the P4 when it is absolutely finished. Part of the love I get from Amiga old skool is saving silicon from someone's melt-down shop in Bangladesh. I had fired up a copy of memacs that came on my A2000-it was fine! Loved it, in fact. My code looks just as pretty on it as it does on this machine. Of course, I have no way of getting it OFF my a2000, but all in due time. It's what makes me happy.
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*looks at his P4 daily driver....
Garbage? I can play 1080p matroskas on it...geforce 7000...I can code java in eclipse and python in vim. I could also do that on a MorphOS box. I'll toss the P4 when it is absolutely finished. Part of the love I get from Amiga old skool is saving silicon from someone's melt-down shop in Bangladesh. I had fired up a copy of memacs that came on my A2000-it was fine! Loved it, in fact. My code looks just as pretty on it as it does on this machine. Of course, I have no way of getting it OFF my a2000, but all in due time. It's what makes me happy.
I found a simple solution for transfering files between my amiga and my PC since I don't have a network card in the miggy. I simply setup a BBS on an old P2 laptop. My amiga are connected to it via null-modem cable and the PC can access the laptop via LAN.
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*looks at his P4 daily driver....
Garbage? I can play 1080p matroskas on it...geforce 7000...I can code java in eclipse and python in vim. I could also do that on a MorphOS box. I'll toss the P4 when it is absolutely finished. Part of the love I get from Amiga old skool is saving silicon from someone's melt-down shop in Bangladesh. I had fired up a copy of memacs that came on my A2000-it was fine! Loved it, in fact. My code looks just as pretty on it as it does on this machine. Of course, I have no way of getting it OFF my a2000, but all in due time. It's what makes me happy.
Bingo good sir.
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Hate to break it to you, but WTTM is not Leo, wrong part of the world.
Well, the new thing on Amiga.org is to accuse anyone that doesn't join the mob of being one of the evil ones.
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I never understood the pride of using old PC hardware. Get yourself a Kill-A-Watt, and measure how much it costs you to run those beasts. My Core 2's have completely paid for themselves with electricity savings over their predecessors, while running way faster. Heck, my the Core 2 and Atom HTPCs I replaced my satellite receivers with last April are just about to hit the payoff point.
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I never understood the pride of using old PC hardware. Get yourself a Kill-A-Watt, and measure how much it costs you to run those beasts. My Core 2's have completely paid for themselves with electricity savings over their predecessors, while running way faster. Heck, my the Core 2 and Atom HTPCs I replaced my satellite receivers with last April are just about to hit the payoff point.
I've played around with the numbers, and even with my computers completely unplugged my electric bill barely moves. Considering if I bought a new high end machine for each processor changeover (I'll say 2- one for core2 or quad extreme and one for i7 or Phenom) at a couple grand a pop I still haven't covered that cost in electricity by a loooong shot. I doubt there is much power draw difference between a p4 and a core2. Now either of those compared to the A2000...
EDIT: I'll tell you what DOES affect my electricity bill--teenagers. I come home- every light on in the house plus the bathroom fans, them staring into the back of the refrigerator with the door wide open for god knows how long..."Dude, there's nothing to eat!"
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I've played around with the numbers, and even with my computers completely unplugged my electric bill barely moves. Considering if I bought a new high end machine for each processor changeover (I'll say 2- one for core2 or quad extreme and one for i7 or Phenom) at a couple grand a pop I still haven't covered that cost in electricity by a loooong shot. I doubt there is much power draw difference between a p4 and a core2. Now either of those compared to the A2000...
EDIT: I'll tell you what DOES affect my electricity bill--teenagers. I come home- every light on in the house plus the bathroom fans, them staring into the back of the refrigerator with the door wide open for god knows how long..."Dude, there's nothing to eat!"
Im assuming the TV is on, and music is playing in at least 2 rooms too ;)
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My Athlon X2 with an nVidia video card drew 190 watts peak and idled at 160 watts. My quad core Core 2 with Intel X4500 peaks at 60 watts and idles at 40. My Revo media PC with nVidia Ion peaks at 20 watts and idles at 5.
Sleep didn't really work well with the Athlon, so it basically ran 24/7. That put it's power usage at ~115kwh/month. At the California rate of $.037/kwh, it cost ~$43/month to run. Sleep works much better on my Core 2, so it run ~16 hours a day. That put's it's power usage at ~24kwh/month costing ~$9. That gives me a savings of $34/month. Everything in the machine is faster, including the video, and the system cost only $500. That means replacing the machine took 14 months to pay for itself. Now, I realize that some place pay a third for electricity than we do, but even then a P4 would easily pay for it's own replacement. It would just take a few years instead of 1.
The Revo's atom is as fast as a P4, and the video is better than anything that came in a P4. Even if your in one of those amazing places that sell you electricity at $0.10/kwh, it would take in the range of a year to replace the P4.
My wife's brand new laptop with an i5 draws 30-50 watts, and only cost $700. I have no idea where you spend $2k on computers. Even most Macs don't cost $2k.
Edit:
OK, I reread your post. Your comparing apples to oranges. You don't replace a P4 with a high end PC. You replace a P4 with a $200 net top. You will get equal performance, and a massive drop in electric usage. Why would you feel the need to buy a high end computer if a P4 is even usable? A $500 PC will give you massive speed ups over a P4.
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While Im the sort of guy who generally likes to keep reasonably uptodate with the pc world I can completely understand why some people are happy with thier 5-10 year old machine. X86 hardware hit a spot a long time ago where for a lot of usage there's simply no need to upgrade. Sure theyre technically miles faster, but for some people that's pretty moot, depending on thier needs.
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While Im the sort of guy who generally likes to keep reasonably uptodate with the pc world I can completely understand why some people are happy with thier 5-10 year old machine. X86 hardware hit a spot a long time ago where for a lot of usage there's simply no need to upgrade. Sure theyre technically miles faster, but for some people that's pretty moot, depending on thier needs.
My machine is fairly modest in the big picture (2.4 dual core, 4 gigs RAM) but as I dont play hardcore PC games, I have a hard time imagining anything I'd need more horsepower for.
I have to go out of my way to push ubuntu to 2 gigs of RAM in use.
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I get that faster machines are not necessarily going to give you more, but modern machines will give you equal performance at a fraction of the power envelope, and thus paying for themselves. It is not uncommon to see Pentium 4s with power draws over 200 watts. That compared to an equivalent Atom running at 20 watts. It's not a matter of getting more processing power, it is a question of TCO.
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Any hardware needs updating. There is not a single piece of electronic equipment that doesn't require a firmware upgrade or a fix. So if you think that your pc is perfect out of the box then think again.
It's all down to the manufacturer to rectify the products they have released with later firmware updates, fixes etc...
In the "pc" world you see it all the time. Boards manufacturers like Asus, Gigabyte, MSI etc...release boards that later on require adjusting, this is when you have a little trip to the manufacturer's website and download firmwares and drivers to fix things that are not right in the first place.
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@TheDaddy
Yes, most things will require updates etc. like you say, but that doesn't mean that people need the updates. If it works 100% as they want it to, then good for them. The fixes probably wouldn't make a jot of difference to them. I keep all my BIOSes up-to-date, but most of the time there isn't a single noticeable difference in the before and after machine.
@thread
I have 4 main tower machines, 2 of which are PCs. I upgrade them when the opportunity comes along (a CPU donated here, some RAM scavenged there), and pass the slower parts down the line. Right now I've retired an Athlon XP board in my Linux box and replaced it with a Pentium-D. I shudder to think about how much power that monstrosity uses! But since I only turn it on when I'm using it, and shut it down completely when I'm not, it's not really an issue. I'm sure there's more power used per month by the housemates and their use of lights, TVs etc. when they're not in the rooms.
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@Deadalus
>>Yes, most things will require updates etc. like you say, but that doesn't mean that people need the updates.
Most people won't but most people would benefit from updating. If you look at the manufacturer's sites you'll see lots of updates and this tells you that manufacturer (like software developers) release their product without proper testing in the knowledge that they have an escape route.
The same goes for the "crappy" A1 board...IF the manufacturer had the power, money, time, balls to sort it out then the A1 wouldn't have been as bad as it has been reported.
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You mean everyone doesn't do it? :)
After thinking about it for a minute, I think I came up with a nice answer....
It's just a continuation of our early history and style from the begining of trans American travel when our wagons were actually made out of wood. ... like this.....
http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch:1&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&gs_rfai=&q=wagon%20conestoga
Plaz
I assumed it was something like that. Funny how that cultural heretage can carry over to printed woodgrain cladding on a car.
Still wood-grain on the exterior of a car is just... weird.
In the 60s-70's there was a fad of gluing vinyl (leather-ette) on car roof exteriors here in Aus (and the US), it usually resulted in water getting between the vinyl and sheet metal and rusting the roof out. :(
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I would say Fab's version of OWB is far better then firefox ... but that's me. =]
Terminillis
Not sure if you should stop taking drugs or Start!
That is quite a silly statement
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well there's been some great new software and ports coming out lately...Hollywood, Blender and Timberwolf to name a few. As for Fab helping out kas1e on the OWB port..yes that's great as a temporary small gap but I'm sure most of us are awaiting the final release of Timberwolf with much more excitement ;)
Well Hollywood is the only thing on that list that is new amiga software. Blender and Twolf are both Linux ports... not only this but Timberwolf development has slowed to a crawl as hyperion are working on Classic OS4.x and x1000 port..
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@Deadalus
Most people won't but most people would benefit from updating. If you look at the manufacturer's sites you'll see lots of updates and this tells you that manufacturer (like software developers) release their product without proper testing in the knowledge that they have an escape route.
The same goes for the "crappy" A1 board...IF the manufacturer had the power, money, time, balls to sort it out then the A1 wouldn't have been as bad as it has been reported.
I don't think that many people would benefit. Most manufacturers are under pressure from competition to get their products out the door in order to make any sort of a profit and get some market share, so it's understandable that they don't get the rigorous testing that they probably should. If they spend an extra 2 months testing a product, their competitor will have their product out there with a 2 month head start, and people will choose the one that's on sale over the one that isn't, even if it needs updates.
However, they're tested in the common configurations, which means that most people won't require fixes. A lot of updates that I install have absolutely nothing which affects me because I don't use IDE or I don't use serial or hadn't notices a slight slowdown in graphics throughput because I'm not a gamer etc. Although some updates do fix issues that noticeably affect me, they're in the minority.
Bear in mind too that people will use motherboards etc. with hardware that the motherboard manufacturer couldn't test with, either because it didn't exist yet, or the standard wasn't finalised, or because only 0.01% of the population will ever want to add extra serial ports or whatever.
That A1 board is a completely different beast though - we all know about the issues with that and there isn't an excuse really...
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Read a few pages and got bored rather quickly.
C=USA is clearly trying to de-rail A-Eon's/Hyperion's attempt to bring a new computer running AmigaOS. Simple as that.
Its obvious... consider the facts.
1) They are calling their linux distribution Workbench. If C=USA do go ahead and actually bring something to market Hyperion will sue and C=USA will lose.
2) They are calling this distribution version 5. When it should be version 1; clearly set to confuse the consumer into thinking 'ooo cool this must be a long overdue update to version Workbench 3 I remember back in the day.' This is a clearly a case of viral marketing.
3) Imagery. Using images without permission, making banner look like A.org etc. Using images that are not appropriate to the products they are licensed to sell.
4) External forum site that can easily be disassociated from/with the C=USA website when it goes tits up. Leaving these 'C=USA' fans disillusioned.
6) $30 million TV marketing campaign for Christmas 2010... which never happened.
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I would say Fab's version of OWB is far better then firefox ... but that's me. =]
Wow..... I use OWB for MorpOS on my machine and as far as Amiga browsers go it is the best non alpha state browser but to say it is better than Firefox your now entering the realm of fantasy unless you are just joking then funny it is :roflmao::lol::laughing:
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@Deadalus
>>I don't think that many people would benefit. Most manufacturers are under pressure from competition to get their products out the door in order to make any sort of a profit and get some market share, so it's understandable that they don't get the rigorous testing that they probably should.
That doesn't make it right. Same could be said of the first A1 boards, and I underline the fact that I never bought one so I am not defending it. It is just not right to "understand" a manufacturer because they don't do rigorous testing and blame another.
Also take into account the size of companies like Gigabye or Asus.
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@TheDaddy
Yeah, I get your point, and the A1 was never meant to be anything more than a developer board, and were made in such small numbers that they couldn't do the sort of testing that Asus do for example. I develop hardware for a living, the precision robotics / embedded computer type which we sell in similar numbers to the A1, and we have to draw a line to say we've done enough testing, even though we haven't absolutely tested it to death. We simply can't afford the time or the cost associated with such testing. However, 90% of our customers don't have a single issue and 10% of our customers do. So we release updated software, firmware, hardware. The A1 OTOH exhibits issues in what seems to be a majority of cases. Most people have fixed theirs, but faults that show up in significant numbers should be caught at testing, regardless of how large or small the company or production run is. I can't imagine ASUS for example releasing a motherboard which had faulty USB sockets for example, and we would never release a machine with those sort of faults either.
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Terminillis
Not sure if you should stop taking drugs or Start!
That is quite a silly statement
Not really I use them both firefox is a bloated pos =]
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Firefox has indeed swelled out, but if you do web development, some of the plugins available for it are simply peerless.
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But then we aren't talking about the browser anymore we're talking about the available plugins =P
Oh and the font rendering engine in Firefox blows in comparison to webkit btw =]
PS. Speaking of developmental plugins Chrome is starting to get quite a few nice ones lately =]
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Wow..... I use OWB for MorpOS on my machine and as far as Amiga browsers go it is the best non alpha state browser but to say it is better than Firefox your now entering the realm of fantasy unless you are just joking then funny it is :roflmao::lol::laughing:
Fairdinkem
He was referring to x86 version of FF.. hence the silliness.. cmon man.
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Fairdinkem
He was referring to x86 version of FF.. hence the silliness.. cmon man.
I was referring to the main browser not the available plugins(which won't instantly become available when ff comes to any OS anyways). =]
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But then we aren't talking about the browser anymore we're talking about the available plugins =P
Oh and the font rendering engine in Firefox blows in comparison to webkit btw =]
PS. Speaking of developmental plugins Chrome is starting to get quite a few nice ones lately =]
Sure, speaking as a user, webkit presently owns gecko for rendering speed/compliance, I've not said otherwise. However, speaking as a developer, even chrome's excellent built-in development tools are still no match for a combo firebug/firephp/fiddler/web developer set installed on Firefox.
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I was referring to the main browser not the available plugins(which won't instantly become available when ff comes to any OS anyways). =]
You do realise that aside from flash and other stream playback based plugins, virtually every firefox extension (also commonly called plugins by the vast majority of people ) is written in JS/XUL and as such, should work on any build?
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You mean the ones That most people commonly use? :D
and yes I did know that the js/xul were mostly platform independent
PS. I'm sure people will have a blast auto-filling forms etc. hehe
PS2: Firebug looks nice btw I'll have to look into it. =]
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Terminillis
Not sure if you should stop taking drugs or Start!
That is quite a silly statement
I can see what he is trying to get at. been using firefox for years and its gone really realy slow and bloated.
Chrome is what I use most of the time now
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I can see what he is trying to get at. been using firefox for years and its gone really realy slow and bloated.
Chrome is what I use most of the time now
Indeed... I prefer 2.x to 3.x when it comes to speed. Even stability was not bad in 2.x. We'll see if 4.x brings it's mojo back...
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Sure, speaking as a user, webkit presently owns gecko for rendering speed/compliance, I've not said otherwise. However, speaking as a developer, even chrome's excellent built-in development tools are still no match for a combo firebug/firephp/fiddler/web developer set installed on Firefox.
Well, WebKit's builtin WebInspector is rather good in my opinion (it's also very actively developed). I don't use Firebug, but from the "feature list", they both look quite similar (resource inspection with on-the fly modifications, js debugger, network analysis / performance, ...).
In OWB, I also added several features (content/ad blocker, userscript manager, stylesheet manager, url preferences, network manager...) that don't exist in a default Firefox setup and must be installed as 3rd-party extensions (which is always a hassle for the lambda user).
But of course, it's somewhat hard to compete alone against the horde of Mozilla and extensions developers. :)
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@Fab
Firebug has been around a long time; it seems entirely likely that the built-in tools in many current browsers (certainly IE8's if you've ever looked at it) have been inspired by it, and it in turn has been inspired by unique features of browser's own inspectors.
Firebug itself enables further extensions. For example, if you are doing LAMP development, one of the nice things you can do with firebug is run firephp, which allows you to send debug information from the server side PHP to the browser via headers so that it doesn't interfere (generally) with the page operation. You can then view the debug output directly firebug's console. There are loads of nifty tools like this.
Note that firebug (lite) is also available for webkit browsers nowadays too ;)
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BTW, as an end user, I use webkit too ;)
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I've been using Firefox 1.5 ever since they came out with 2 and things started getting large and slow. Aside from a few poorly-designed sites, I've never had any trouble with it.
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Firefox has indeed swelled out, but if you do web development, some of the plugins available for it are simply peerless.
The level of disdain I have for web "development" is beaten only by that which I have with regard to Visual Basic. :P
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Whats wrong with VB. These days you can now acccess everyhting you can with C or C#.
Does VB complie into slower code ? Do you not like the syntax
Why the hatred for VB ?
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Whats wrong with VB. These days you can now acccess everyhting you can with C or C#.
Does VB complie into slower code ? Do you not like the syntax
Why the hatred for VB ?
It's t3h 3v1L!!!!
"Those that can 'C', those that can't 'VB'' :-P
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To be honest, I know very little VB, only what I have picked up having to use OLE calls to VBA to integrate the sofatware we use to inegrate with word, excel , outlook etc.
I am only now trying to learn C with a view to do some MorphOS dev, but work, life, etc keeps getting in way.
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Read a few pages and got bored rather quickly.
C=USA is clearly trying to de-rail A-Eon's/Hyperion's attempt to bring a new computer running AmigaOS. Simple as that.
Except C=USA doesn't care about Hyperion.
Its obvious... consider the facts.
1) They are calling their linux distribution Workbench. If C=USA do go ahead and actually bring something to market Hyperion will sue and C=USA will lose.
Except Hyperion has zero license agreements or trademarks with the name, "Workbench." Right now AI is battling Cloanto over their trademark name of, "Workbench." What does Hyperion have to do with it?
2) They are calling this distribution version 5. When it should be version 1; clearly set to confuse the consumer into thinking 'ooo cool this must be a long overdue update to version Workbench 3 I remember back in the day.' This is a clearly a case of viral marketing.
Last Workbench released was 3.x. C=USA should be calling it Workbench4. Would that make you happier?
3) Imagery. Using images without permission, making banner look like A.org etc. Using images that are not appropriate to the products they are licensed to sell.
I see nothing on commodoreusa.net that looks like a banner from AO. If you are referring to Commodore-amiga.org, that is non C=USA's web site, that belongs to Terminills.
4) External forum site that can easily be disassociated from/with the C=USA website when it goes tits up. Leaving these 'C=USA' fans disillusioned.
Same can be said for Amigans.net, so what?
6) $30 million TV marketing campaign for Christmas 2010... which never happened.
Nope, they never declared it was for Christmas 2010. Now I did read it was supposedly spread out over five years.
Any more factually challenged statements?
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Visual Basic is not bad at all...
C++ gets more on my nerves.
But the worst of all, to me, is old Pascal(which I was forced to use in high-school).
JAVA rules :). And it will be available on the future WBX, thankfully. CUDA should be interesting also.
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I cant belive anyone is sticking up for this rubbish
Yes Amiga,inc are backing this the license argement is putting money in the Pocket of Amiga.inc
Yes calling it Workbench 5 is confusing and misleading this has nothing to do with Workbench, OS4 is the Offical next Workbench and doing this is very unhelpful
Yes this is just a x86 running linux & emulator for compatiblity
AROS is open source and much more Amiga related than this rubbish.
If you want to Buy a x86 that you could probably build cheaper just because your being told this is Amiga thats up to you.
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Except Hyperion has zero license agreements or trademarks with the name, "Workbench." Right now AI is battling Cloanto over their trademark name of, "Workbench." What does Hyperion have to do with it?
is this true not heard about that, thought they had permission for workbench, os, roms etc.
Have you got a link, not that I don't believe you just want to read about it
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I see Iwin....
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is this true not heard about that, thought they had permission for workbench, os, roms etc.
Have you got a link, not that I don't believe you just want to read about it
I here I was thinking that Cloanto actually had the licens... I still think they do..
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Visual Basic is not bad at all...
C++ gets more on my nerves.
But the worst of all, to me, is old Pascal(which I was forced to use in high-school).
JAVA rules :). And it will be available on the future WBX, thankfully. CUDA should be interesting also.
From what I have seen of Java the syntax and layout looks identical to C
Never did Pascal, did however, for the very brief time I was there, do Modula-2 in uniy. From memory quie liked Modual-2, which I believe was based on Pascal.
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I cant belive anyone is sticking up for this rubbish
Yes Amiga,inc are backing this the license argement is putting money in the Pocket of Amiga.inc
Yes calling it Workbench 5 is confusing and misleading this has nothing to do with Workbench, OS4 is the Offical next Workbench and doing this is very unhelpful
Yes this is just a x86 running linux & emulator for compatiblity
AROS is open source and much more Amiga related than this rubbish.
If you want to Buy a x86 that you could probably build cheaper just because your being told this is Amiga thats up to you.
AROS is outdated as is every other "modern" Amiga OS derivative. WBX will be based on Linux but it will also offer all the advantages of a modern OS.
BTW, AROS hosted is very good on Linux. It shouldn't be too much of a problem to incorporate it seemlessly into WBX for those who want to have it.
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I dont quite get why Workbench and AROS is outdated. It seems to run just fine here, with all that I need for every day use.
What it lacks is not in the OS, but lack of programs, and that has nothing to do with the OS
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From what I have seen of Java the syntax and layout looks identical to C
Never did Pascal, did however, for the very brief time I was there, do Modula-2 in uniy. From memory quie liked Modual-2, which I believe was based on Pascal.
It's based on the C/C++ syntax, yes. But I wouldn't call it 100% identical. Still, for any C/C++ programmer the syntax of JAVA comes very naturally. It's a pleasure to code in JAVA, IMHO.
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I dont quite get why Workbench and AROS is outdated.
really...? It's aiming to achieve compatibility with OS 3.1, an OS itself released nearly 20 years ago. It lacks basic stuff that any modern OS offers, like memory protection. It is outdated, make no mistake about it.
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I think hyperion enteraiment arnt alowed to let anyone else use workbench but are allowed to use it themselves.
I dont have anything against Cloanto and they have contributed to the AROS kickstart free bounty.
I dont think Aros is as bad as you make out and even if it is thats AMIGA it is was it is, you cant make a Linux Distro Amiga LOL
I might aswell stick a Amiga sticker on my Dell - There I have an Amiga
Im glad your company hasnt been allowed to monopolise AROS
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Yes it lacks memory protecting, there are pathces.. but what else?
There are patches for almost everything you can think off. Honestly my friend and busniness partner were talking about it last week, what does it actually lack. We came up with memory protection. BTW hee holds several engineering degrees and both software and hardware. I am just a developer
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I dont quite get why Workbench and AROS is outdated. It seems to run just fine here, with all that I need for every day use.
What it lacks is not in the OS, but lack of programs, and that has nothing to do with the OS
The API is out dated. Not much can be done to bring it to modern OS level with it being chained to 3.1 API. Which is one of the reasons why I no longer support AROS.
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The API is out dated. Not much can be done to bring it to modern OS level with it being chained to 3.1 API. Which is one of the reasons why I no longer support AROS.
What APIs are you missing??
3D?? Network?? Sound?? Graphics??
And BTW I am talking about amiga OS workbench, not really AROS..
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Im glad your company hasnt been allowed to monopolise AROS
I'm not in any company.
If your interested in a modern, small, responsive OS than I suggest Syllable OS. It was partly inspired by AmigaOS but it does away without any of the negatives of the AmigaOS architecture. Check it out.
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Except C=USA doesn't care about Hyperion
Obviously they do, as they dropped Aros support due to the treat of legal action from them.
Except Hyperion has zero license agreements or trademarks with the name, "Workbench." Right now AI is battling Cloanto over their trademark name of, "Workbench." What does Hyperion have to do with it?
The whole bases of the case that Amiga Inc have got with Cloanto is that using the name Workbench will damage other Amiga related products, now if they dont mean AmigaOS, what do they mean?
Last Workbench released was 3.x. C=USA should be calling it Workbench4. Would that make you happier?
It be more correct, the only reason I can think they are using version 5 is to make it either seem to be more superior to AmigaOS4 or make it appear its it natural successor. Plus if it has no relation to the original AmigaOS or Workbench, why is it not just called Workbench 1, it is after all the first version of this new OS.
I see nothing on commodoreusa.net that looks like a banner from AO. If you are referring to Commodore-amiga.org, that is non C=USA's web site, that belongs to Terminills.
I agree on that one, but I still see a few things on the commodore site that I'm pretty sure they didn't get permission to use first.
Same can be said for Amigans.net, so what?
Nothing wrong with the Commodore-amiga.org site, its actually the best thing C=USA or its fans have done.
Nope, they never declared it was for Christmas 2010. Now I did read it was supposedly spread out over five years.
Thats still £6 million a year, so what did they spend it on in the first year, it cant be public relation. :roflmao:. Did they support any Amiga show, event, developer, or any one in the community for its first year? (and don't say well they dont have a product to show, and they only just started business and only just got the rights etc etc, Aeon had only just started only just got something to show and yet still supported every major amiga event and sponsored competition and help developers.) will CommodoreUSA ever do anything like this, it would go a long way to convincing Amiga users and they would only have to spend 1% of there advertising budget, if even that. Just £50 donation towards any part of the amiga community I would be thankful from CommodoreUSA. (and again, this is not blackmail, trying to force the company to invest in an area of the market it has no interest in, but number 1. it would go along way to convincing people they do want to help the amiga community, 2. many other company in amiga world donate, even ageist their business, look at cloanto for example giving donation to make a legal free kickstart when its main business is selling these roms legally. Aeon/trever has donated and bought a lot from morphos and aros camps and he meant to be supporting OS4. 3. I think it would be seen as a good gesture from them. )
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AROS is outdated as is every other "modern" Amiga OS derivative. WBX will be based on Linux but it will also offer all the advantages of a modern OS.
Uh, Linux is a "modern OS." Which brings me back to a question from earlier: what is "Workbench 5" going to offer that other Linux distros don't, aside from an "uh, it looks like Workbench!" desktop environment?
(Also, Java's syntax is indeed quite nice - it's the library that's a bitch. Well, that and the fact that the syntax has no support for "using namespace" or any preprocessor mechanism with which that functionality could be replicated, so that you have to refer to every library function by its full path every time you use it.)
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Uh, Linux is a "modern OS." Which brings me back to a question from earlier: what is "Workbench 5" going to offer that other Linux distros don't, aside from an "uh, it looks like Workbench!" desktop environment?
It will have far less support than just about any other Linux distro available, unless it's just a rebranded major distro "borrowed" from someone.
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Uh, Linux is a "modern OS." Which brings me back to a question from earlier: what is "Workbench 5" going to offer that other Linux distros don't, aside from an "uh, it looks like Workbench!" desktop environment?
legal ROMs and seemless amiga and commodore emulation at install.
It will also feature various software, preinstalled and ready to use. By various I mean almost everything will be covered so that it gets as close as being a substitute for Windows as possible... It will be aimed at ordinary users who had no prior experience with Linux, that is it should be end-user friendly... At least, that is their plan.
If everything goes OK, they plan to move on from being "just" a custom linux distro to being a custom OS itself. Maybe even switching to BSD. But that is a long way to go... small steps first.
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legal ROMs and seemless amiga and commodore emulation at install.
Okay, so we'd be paying in order to save ourselves five minutes of minor inconvenience and maybe even a whole hour of agonizing over the morality of using an abandonware BIOS?
It will also feature various software, preinstalled and ready to use. By various I mean almost everything will be covered so that it gets as close as being a substitute for Windows as possible... It will be aimed at ordinary users who had no prior experience with Linux, that is it should be end-user friendly...
Okay, what exactly would bring it closer to Windows that other user-friendly distros don't have? An open-source clone of Microsoft Pinball?
If everything goes OK, they plan to move on from being "just" a custom linux distro to being a custom OS itself. Maybe even switching to BSD. But that is a long way to go... small steps first.
Okay, "switching to BSD" is a pretty strange definition of "custom OS."
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Obviously they do, as they dropped Aros support due to the treat of legal action from them.
AFAIK, AROS was dropped on several reasons. One was it wasn't ready for prime time since it could not use the second core of the dual core Atom. It would crash and do other annoying things that would not be viable for a commercial project of this size. Yes, the legal issue made Leo nervous but I still say he should reread the agreement between AI and Hyperion again, there is significant wording in that agreement that should sooth his nerves.
The whole bases of the case that Amiga Inc have got with Cloanto is that using the name Workbench will damage other Amiga related products, now if they dont mean AmigaOS, what do they mean?
Hell if I know, I am not AI nor C=USA. Go ask AI.
It be more correct, the only reason I can think they are using version 5 is to make it either seem to be more superior to AmigaOS4 or make it appear its it natural successor. Plus if it has no relation to the original AmigaOS or Workbench, why is it not just called Workbench 1, it is after all the first version of this new OS.
AI apparently has given it's blessing to use the term Workbench. Go ask them.
I agree on that one, but I still see a few things on the commodore site that I'm pretty sure they didn't get permission to use first.
We don't know what they have permission to use and what they don't. If you have IP they are using without permission, your free to seek corrective measures.
Nothing wrong with the Commodore-amiga.org site, its actually the best thing C=USA or its fans have done.
It's fans, and yes it's evolving quickly under Terminill's work.
Thats still £6 million a year, so what did they spend it on in the first year, it cant be public relation. :roflmao:.
No, it's $6 million USD @ year if it's all done equally which I doubt.
Did they support any Amiga show, event, developer, or any one in the community for its first year? (and don't say well they dont have a product to show, and they only just started business and only just got the rights etc etc, Aeon had only just started only just got something to show and yet still supported every major amiga event and sponsored competition and help developers.) will CommodoreUSA ever do anything like this, it would go a long way to convincing Amiga users and they would only have to spend 1% of there advertising budget, if even that. Just £50 donation towards any part of the amiga community I would be thankful from CommodoreUSA. (and again, this is not blackmail, trying to force the company to invest in an area of the market it has no interest in, but number 1. it would go along way to convincing people they do want to help the amiga community, 2. many other company in amiga world donate, even ageist their business, look at cloanto for example giving donation to make a legal free kickstart when its main business is selling these roms legally. Aeon/trever has donated and bought a lot from morphos and aros camps and he meant to be supporting OS4. 3. I think it would be seen as a good gesture from them. )
I am not expecting much out of C=USA until they are making a profit. Which means they start selling C64x in high volume to their distribution systems. I'm not expecting much out of WB5 either, something really worth while takes a significant amount of time which C=USA hasn't really had enough of do much.
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Ummm, X is 10 in Roman Numerals, I think you mean WBV...
AROS is outdated as is every other "modern" Amiga OS derivative. WBX will be based on Linux but it will also offer all the advantages of a modern OS.
BTW, AROS hosted is very good on Linux. It shouldn't be too much of a problem to incorporate it seemlessly into WBX for those who want to have it.
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Ummm, X is 10 in Roman Numerals, I think you mean WBV...
I used X simply because naming is not set in stone yet.
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AFAIK, AROS was dropped on several reasons. One was it wasn't ready for prime time since it could not use the second core of the dual core Atom. It would crash and do other annoying things that would not be viable for a commercial project of this size. Yes, the legal issue made Leo nervous but I still say he should reread the agreement between AI and Hyperion again, there is significant wording in that agreement that should sooth his nerves.
Hell if I know, I am not AI nor C=USA. Go ask AI.
AI apparently has given it's blessing to use the term Workbench. Go ask them.
We don't know what they have permission to use and what they don't. If you have IP they are using without permission, your free to seek corrective measures.
It's fans, and yes it's evolving quickly under Terminill's work.
No, it's $6 million USD @ year if it's all done equally which I doubt.
I am not expecting much out of C=USA until they are making a profit. Which means they start selling C64x in high volume to their distribution systems. I'm not expecting much out of WB5 either, something really worth while takes a significant amount of time which C=USA hasn't really had enough of do much.
: D AROS NOT ready on prime time? HAHAHAHA .... even if AROS uses only one Core of the ATOM it is faster than Ubuntu. Linux sucks in terms of performance.. it is a secure modular OS but no multimedia system.
Whatever...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj6qC94k1oQ
-> this was done in under 3hours.... so there was and is plenty of time ; )
Especially if you have 30Mio $.... hmpf...
Oh and Linux crashes also. Start experimenting and it will crash too.
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it's not ready for prime time. I've used AROS and it's far, far from being able to be marketable to mainstream users. It lacks stability, software, modern features and it's UI is too old-fashioned(Zune upgrade cannot come sooner really)
I'd be more interested in a Syllable OS(or maybe even Haiku) based AresOne. It's got much more potential then AROS will, probably, ever have.
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..Thats still £6 million a year, so what did they spend it on in the first year, it cant be public relation. :roflmao:. Did they support any Amiga show, event, developer, or any one in the community for its first year? (and don't say well they dont have a product to show, and they only just started business and only just got the rights etc etc, Aeon had only just started only just got something to show and yet still supported every major amiga event and sponsored competition and help developers.) will CommodoreUSA ever do anything like this, it would go a long way to convincing Amiga users and they would only have to spend 1% of there advertising budget, if even that. Just £50 donation towards any part of the amiga community I would be thankful from CommodoreUSA. (and again, this is not blackmail, trying to force the company to invest in an area of the market it has no interest in, but number 1. it would go along way to convincing people they do want to help the amiga community, 2. many other company in amiga world donate, even ageist their business, look at cloanto for example giving donation to make a legal free kickstart when its main business is selling these roms legally. Aeon/trever has donated and bought a lot from morphos and aros camps and he meant to be supporting OS4. 3. I think it would be seen as a good gesture from them. )
+1 but this makes logical sense..something CUSA and AI apparently have none of.
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: D AROS NOT ready on prime time? HAHAHAHA .... even if AROS uses only one Core of the ATOM it is faster than Ubuntu. Linux sucks in terms of performance.. it is a secure modular OS but no multimedia system.
I don't use Ubuntu. It depends on what garbage you add to Linux to make it a slow pig.
Whatever...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj6qC94k1oQ
-> this was done in under 3hours.... so there was and is plenty of time ; )
Especially if you have 30Mio $.... hmpf...
Oh and Linux crashes also. Start experimenting and it will crash too.
I can't remember the last time my Linux box crashed, but I'm just a end user and not a Dev. A decent OS is going to take time, AROS has taken what, 14 years to get to where it is today? I think C=USA inked the deal with AI this past fall. That's not much time really when you think what has to happen before the first machine can roll off the assembly line.
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I don't use Ubuntu. It depends on what garbage you add to Linux to make it a slow pig.
If people are concerned with speed, they can load up DSL or another 50 meg distro that can run entire in RAM.
I can't remember the last time my Linux box crashed, but I'm just a end user and not a Dev. A decent OS is going to take time, AROS has taken what, 14 years to get to where it is today? I think C=USA inked the deal with AI this past fall. That's not much time really when you think what has to happen before the first machine can roll off the assembly line.
People have some amazing expectations about what it actually takes to write an OS.
Windows and Mac OS has been developed over decades, by billion dollar corporations. Linux has been developed over decades, with thousands of contributors, including plenty of billion dollar corporations.
That AROS is where is at, is nothing short of amazing, but the notion that it'll swoop in and suddenly get people to buy that instead of windows is futile.
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: D AROS NOT ready on prime time? HAHAHAHA ....
By no measure that I'm aware of could AROS be said to be "ready for prime time". AFAIK it's still considered an Alpha release.
even if AROS uses only one Core of the ATOM it is faster than Ubuntu.
Ubuntu != Linux. And you might be right about it being more responsive than Ubuntu is initially, and that's fine but the moment you attempt to do anything remotely processor intensive that second core that Ubuntu can tap will leave AROS standing. Also there are lightweight versions of both Linux and Ubuntu that negate much of your complaint.
Linux sucks in terms of performance.. it is a secure modular OS but no multimedia system.
Depends on the distro as far as "speed" goes. And as far multimedia is concerned, there's very little I can't play quite comfortably, even on an EeePC 701 using Kubuntu 10.04.
Oh and Linux crashes also. Start experimenting and it will crash too.
Sure I can make Linux crash, I can make any OS crash, the difference is that lacking things like system wide memory protection, an application crashing is highly unlikely to cause the rest of the system to croak. All in all I find Linux to be rock solid when put on well supported hardware.
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My Athlon X2 with an nVidia video card drew 190 watts peak and idled at 160 watts. My quad core Core 2 with Intel X4500 peaks at 60 watts and idles at 40. My Revo media PC with nVidia Ion peaks at 20 watts and idles at 5.
Sleep didn't really work well with the Athlon, so it basically ran 24/7. That put it's power usage at ~115kwh/month. At the California rate of $.037/kwh, it cost ~$43/month to run. Sleep works much better on my Core 2, so it run ~16 hours a day. That put's it's power usage at ~24kwh/month costing ~$9. That gives me a savings of $34/month. Everything in the machine is faster, including the video, and the system cost only $500. That means replacing the machine took 14 months to pay for itself. Now, I realize that some place pay a third for electricity than we do, but even then a P4 would easily pay for it's own replacement. It would just take a few years instead of 1.
The Revo's atom is as fast as a P4, and the video is better than anything that came in a P4. Even if your in one of those amazing places that sell you electricity at $0.10/kwh, it would take in the range of a year to replace the P4.
My wife's brand new laptop with an i5 draws 30-50 watts, and only cost $700. I have no idea where you spend $2k on computers. Even most Macs don't cost $2k.
Edit:
OK, I reread your post. Your comparing apples to oranges. You don't replace a P4 with a high end PC. You replace a P4 with a $200 net top. You will get equal performance, and a massive drop in electric usage. Why would you feel the need to buy a high end computer if a P4 is even usable? A $500 PC will give you massive speed ups over a P4.
Well, there's part of it- Cali electric rates :)
I will buy another high end computer here whenever they can demonstrate that it 1.) Will run games that I want to play that I can't already on a PS3 or 360 (so far that's a negative--WOW doesnt "wow" me and SC2 doesn't interest me either) 2.) is a RADICAL departure from current methodology or 3.) makes VIM telepathically controlled. Oh, and 4) My P4 blows up. It is my experience that without programs that make use of 64bit arches and OSes that do the same, the flasgship of 32bit x86 has less compatibility issues, runs more software, and has already paid for itself. Now, if I was an artsy-fartsy "film and picture editor" the answer would be simple-buy that 2 grand apple cinema display and a new MacPro. That would run arounf 4 grand. If I was a SC2 whore, I'd spend right around 2 grand for a mobo, phenom 2 Black, as much ram as I could stuff in, the fastest SSD, Realforce Torpe keyboard....Hell the keyboard is 260...(as much as the new Dell I have downstairs.)
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I am not expecting much out of C=USA
thats the best thing you've said!
look I maybe consider a troll when it come to C=USA threads and my opions on them, if they deliver everything they promised then maybe, just maybe I might do business with them and even support them, but so far a lot of promising, like they were going to support Aros, and their actions, like the ever changing Amiga fantasy case copyright text, treating legal action ageist Osnews, (hell even ageist me for my funny little youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlDagZX1vWI) and saying thing like who gave wayne the right to the Amiga.org domain etc etc, lets just say there action to date have not really impressive me.
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thats the best thing you've said!
look I maybe consider a troll when it come to C=USA threads and my opions on them, if they deliver everything they promised then maybe, just maybe I might do business with them and even support them, but so far a lot of promising, like they were going to support Aros, and their actions, like the ever changing Amiga fantasy case copyright text, treating legal action ageist Osnews, (hell even ageist me for my funny little youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlDagZX1vWI) and saying thing like who gave wayne the right to the Amiga.org domain etc etc, lets just say there action to date have not really impressive me.
They threatened you with legal action?
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
We've not had the pleasure yet but I'm sure Barry and Leo Chuckle won't let us down. :)
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thats the best thing you've said!
look I maybe consider a troll when it come to C=USA threads and my opions on them, if they deliver everything they promised then maybe, just maybe I might do business with them and even support them, but so far a lot of promising, like they were going to support Aros, and their actions, like the ever changing Amiga fantasy case copyright text, treating legal action ageist Osnews, (hell even ageist me for my funny little youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlDagZX1vWI) and saying thing like who gave wayne the right to the Amiga.org domain etc etc, lets just say there action to date have not really impressive me.
Give them some time to get things better sorted out and plans go to execution phase is all I'm asking. I have a feeling by the end of this month, things will start to be clarified with facts and dates.
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They threatened you with legal action?
Well original i did call the video CommodoreUSA, and used in the video the term "CommodoreUSA presents, " so maybe I did cross the line, which is why the video is no longer anything do with them but another company called FommodoreUK and any similarity are purely coincidence. :rtfm:
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Give them some time to get things better sorted out and plans go to execution phase is all I'm asking. I have a feeling by the end of this month, things will start to be clarified with facts and dates.
Why should any of us give them anything?
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Well original i did call the video CommodoreUSA, and used in the video the term "CommodoreUSA presents, " so maybe I did cross the line, which is why the video is no longer anything do with them but another company called FommodoreUK and any similarity are purely coincidence. :rtfm:
As the owner of Commodore Amiga I hereby give you permission to use the holy names on that video.
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Why should any of us give them anything?
You maybe quick to judge all you want, there is nothing stopping you from doing so.
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Quotin' this...
See also... (http://bash.org/?23396)
:roflmao:
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That said, these pictures impress me.
http://commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64Prototype.aspx
I have gone from very pessimistic and ornery to cautiously hopeful. This shows far more than slapping a label on a zPC.
Never heard of 3D plotters before?
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: D AROS NOT ready on prime time? HAHAHAHA .... even if AROS uses only one Core of the ATOM it is faster than Ubuntu. Linux sucks in terms of performance.. it is a secure modular OS but no multimedia system.
Whatever...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj6qC94k1oQ
-> this was done in under 3hours.... so there was and is plenty of time ; )
Especially if you have 30Mio $.... hmpf...
Oh and Linux crashes also. Start experimenting and it will crash too.
You surely know how to make yourself look like a dumbass.
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yep....
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I experiment on my linux box quite a lot, I've managed to crash the X server a few times and that's about it.
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Funny, the constant Linux bashing on Amiga forums. Remember, without Linux there would be almost no software to run on the various Amiga clones. Almost every piece of software available for these systems are Linux ports.
I'm running Debian sid (unstable) and it's rock solid, I only reboot when I install a new kernel. And I mess a lot with my system, just for fun or to try new stuff.
About Aros being faster than Ubuntu. Well that may be, it's a very bloated distro, But I'm running a very lean setup, build everything from the ground up with a netinstaller.
I installed Icaros last summer to play around with. I have to say that installing Icaros on my laptop (a Pentium IV, the only Aros compatible hardware I have) was a very long process, I could have installed 4 linux boxes in the same time. Once installed I was very dissapointed with the speed of Aros compared to my Debian setup on the same hardware, the window managers I use (dwm, i3, pekwm, evilwm and fluxbox) run circles around Aros. I've tried it for a couple of weeks and wiped the Aros install after that.
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Chrome is what I use most of the time now
Did you know that chrome leads the pack in security vulnerabilities?
and yes its the fastest..
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Curious where you are getting you data regarding Chrome being the most vulnerable web browser.
http://www.taranfx.com/most-secure-browser
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Duce
I read it in CPU magazine, i'll find it and quote you the study..,
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Cool, thanks. Didn't mean to come off as an argumentative dick, I just enjoy reading different takes on browser security since they tend to vary wildly.
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this thread has ranged so far over so many topics. I think it is just the fact that we as tech consumers and Amiga users in particular do not like being spoonfed the same old crap in a new wrapper. None of us would be having these conversations if there was NO hope. We'd throw all our eggs into one basket and call it good. The fact that NatAmi and X1000 are even existing as real silicon speaks volumes to that desire. Whether their business model (or lack thereof) is any good is a moot point. I think my main WTF on the CUSA website was "Just who the hell are these people? Have they spent a day on Amiga.org debating fiercely with Piru over MorphOS vs AOS4? Have they thrown down on the x86 vs PPC debate? Are they diehard AROS fans?" These debates get so passionate on here because most of us actually care about capturing that je ne sais quoi we had when we first used Amiga. Even in a perfect world where I owned all the rights to the Amiga/Commodore intellectual property and a gazillion euros (better exchange rate vs the US dollar :D ) to spend on resurrecting the brand, I would consult the community first...even if doing that is like trying to bathe 100 cats while wearing a speedo.
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I don't know why you guys keep bringing up AROS in relation to CUSA. Yes Altman has admitted exploring it and has dismissed it as not ready. Since they haven't reached a 1.0 distribution yet this isn't unfair.
But as has been mentioned before, Hyperion's settlement with AInc. gives them sole right to use 3.1 to develop 4.0, 5.0 and beyond and specifically forbids AInc from creating an OS that has any similarity to those products. This would prevent AInc from licensing such rights as well.
Whether Barry has sought the right to use the Workbench name or not is unknown (it could be considered an abandoned trademark as work has not progressed under that name in decades).
And running emulation software under the WB5 name is likely to be legal. But a new OS that even superficially resembles OS4? Not going to happen with the Amiga name attached to it. So AROS is out.
Buyers of CUSA hardware could load AROS on to their new hardware, but distribution of AROS is a potential point for litigation.
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Funny, the constant Linux bashing on Amiga forums. Remember, without Linux there would be almost no software to run on the various Amiga clones. Almost every piece of software available for these systems are Linux ports.
I'm running Debian sid (unstable) and it's rock solid, I only reboot when I install a new kernel. And I mess a lot with my system, just for fun or to try new stuff.
About Aros being faster than Ubuntu. Well that may be, it's a very bloated distro, But I'm running a very lean setup, build everything from the ground up with a netinstaller.
I installed Icaros last summer to play around with. I have to say that installing Icaros on my laptop (a Pentium IV, the only Aros compatible hardware I have) was a very long process, I could have installed 4 linux boxes in the same time. Once installed I was very dissapointed with the speed of Aros compared to my Debian setup on the same hardware, the window managers I use (dwm, i3, pekwm, evilwm and fluxbox) run circles around Aros. I've tried it for a couple of weeks and wiped the Aros install after that.
I guess Im wondering how much faster it (AROS) can be.
Im running ubuntu and my machine boots is about 30 seconds, including the BIOS stuff, and shuts down in 3 or 4.
On my friends netbook, it boots in literally 10 seconds.
As far as linux bashing, I guess some people feel windows is more "amiga" or they just gave up on feeling any sense of ownership of their software.
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I don't know. My A1200 does just fine without memory protection. Runs stable and for months at time. AROS, what this is their stated goal, but in other ways AROS is beyond what 3.1 is.
Really, it would make more sence to bitch about the state of Amiga OS 4 and/or Morphos.
Things are what they are. Don't like it, Leave or work to make it better.
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I don't know. My A1200 does just fine without memory protection. Runs stable and for months at time. AROS, what this is their stated goal, but in other ways AROS is beyond what 3.1 is.
Really, it would make more sence to bitch about the state of Amiga OS 4 and/or Morphos.
Things are what they are. Don't like it, Leave or work to make it better.
What is wrong with the state of AOS4 or MorphOS?
Both are more stable than AROS.
Both have passed from the beta stage AROS persistently lingers in and are available as reliable commercially available products.
I can appreciate the fractious nature of this divide (PPC vs. X86), but when AROS reaches the level of reliability that either of the two existing PPC OS' already have then I'll be willing to listen to comparisons.
Right now, their is no comparison, AOS4 and MorphOS work. AROS is incomplete and unpolished.
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Precisely. As far as a Modern OS they are both more modern than AROS. So it make more sense to compare them with other OS's or what CUSA is doing than AROS.
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One thing that has always baffled me about responses to AROS is a lot of people are apparently incapable of understanding the difference between "os3.1 compatible" and "being limited to os3.1 compatibility". Sure, AROS does have a goal of being OS3.1 compatible, but both MOS and OS4.x are also os3.1 compatible. While not yet being as mature as either of the ppc "NG" options it does in some ways surpass both in terms of modern functionality and despite knowing this some people still drone on about the idea of it striving for os3.1 compatibility. And before someone gets up in arms about me saying this, no Im not suggesting it's better (or worse).
I also find it a little irritating that people who have no real idea about development, or have never experienced the amiga systems apis 1st hand are quick to dismiss it's apis as incapable of achieving certain things. Just because something hasnt happened yet doesnt mean it wont, or is incapable of it (Im refering to aros mostly here, but this applies equally to other amiga based systems).
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The main problem I have with CUSA is the attempt to market something off-the-shelf (Linux + keyboard PC) as a "NEW Amiga". This leads one to be naturally cynical of the underlying motives.
If on the other hand they invest time and actual money in more-than off-the-shelf concepts such as custom cases, then you have to give them some credit for going a bit further than making a quick/easy buck on nostalgia.
Wait and see, I guess?
I remember being a bit wary of Cloanto repackaging the freely available WinUAE emulator and calling it AmigaForever. CUSA could learn a lot by modelling themselves after Cloanto's efforts and motives, or they could just be in it to scrape a quick buck off overly sentimental, nostalgic suckers?
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I don't know. My A1200 does just fine without memory protection. Runs stable and for months at time.
Mostly true... until you start programming in languages such as assembler and c/c++, then you'll wish there was at least optional memory protection.
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AROS aims 3.1 API compatibility but it has already improvements over the original. Than if you compare MOS and AMigaOS4 i have to say:
Ok MOS is better
AmigaOS 4 is not.... both are my point of view, depending on what i tried
AROS has support for more HW already, has the best 3D API in the Amiga-Universe... WIFI, GSM.....
Well you all have to understand that "your" bad experiences with AROS may belong to not fully supported HW or a bad build of Virtualbox.
AROS has now working Arexx -> next AMC update will take use of this....
The interesting part is that AmigaOS users wanted this but it will not work on AmigaOS too soon because Mplayer for AmigaOS is still ages behind the AROS Version.
This and that is better here and there but if you sum up(for the moment) i would say:
1. MOS
2. AROS (Running on optimal HW-configuration)
3. AmigaOS4.x
About Linux again:
I had problems like crashes, bad updates (yep packagemanager didn't what he should), looking for the right driver... the need to build it and to realize that this b***tch wan't work like it should.... -> not really nice and not user orientated....
So Mac OS X does it right to hide most UNIX stuff as much as possible.
The opposite is if you have fun with doing such things and being the master of your OS than Linux is fine.... but this is not everyones cup of tea.
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Thought I'd get in before someone less diplomatic jumped on this, but you said it yourself. An unoptimal hardware configuration can make an experience less pleasant than an optimal one. This applies to Linux as well as AROS.
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AROS has now working Arexx -> next AMC update will take use of this....
The interesting part is that AmigaOS users wanted this but it will not work on AmigaOS too soon because Mplayer for AmigaOS is still ages behind the AROS Version.
But I'd be interested to know why it was decided to release AMC for OS4 (too early) and postpone MorphOS indefinitely, especially when AMC uses a MPlayer version directly coming from MorphOS sources.
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@Fab
that's easy...
AROS had for me priority (understandable ; ) )
Fabio is AmigaOS user
Fabio has no MOS machine BUT this will change, i will sell the AresPad (the one and only of its kind and will reuse the money for making existing things better and donate HW to Fabio) If someone is interested to exchange a MOS machine we could talk abaout this.
On the other hand AMC had still some bugs which are now gone and this leads indirectly to a better AMC for MOS launch release.
The time has been used to fix, enhance and Fabio works now on the Emulauncher-PlugIN.
With a MOS machine i would assume Fabio would need 1-2Weeks to make it running.
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While AROS has "been around" for a long time, its been in a pre-alpha state, and it has only gotten some much needed amiga-ishness implemented or fixed in the last year or so, such as changeable mouse pointer images, the scrolling and dragging screens now available in the native nvidia and intel-950 graphics drivers and a semi-working arexx implementation for applications to use. So its easy to see where people have tried it and have been disappointed by it. The windows/ios/android hosted work by sonicamiga and the m68k port work by jason and tony is currently helping to push AROS towards its initial goal of AmigaDOS 3.1 API compatibilities and an ABI-V1 alpha release faster than its ever been moving before.
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ABI-V1 alpha release, when that's reached they will have completed something I have (in the past) doubted would ever be finished.
So yes, I would give AROS the nod as number 2 in that placement (with a real possibility of gaining number 1 position as it improves).
But as all three OS share a common base, I'm not sure its even fair to consider them as competitors, rather there branches of a common tree.
Pick your flavor and run with it.
All seem to have a promising future.
Its hard to believe there are this many options this far after the 'demise' of the Amiga.
For a 'dead' system, there sure is a lot of development going on.
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Like I said, the same people who bitched because Amiga Inc didn't actually do anything will now bitch because CommodoreUSA is doing something.
No, it's not rebuilding the precious dead platform, but does anyone reading this thread REALLY think technology that was dead-ended 16 years ago is worth trying to revive? I say that we should just enjoy our "classic" platform, or even indulge in one of the new flavors if you really think it worth the aggravation of buggy software and "paying extreme amounts for beta-level hardware", but let's stop deluding ourselves about "the future of the Amiga", shall we?
Wayne
here here l agree 100 % no ones forced to buy anything if they do good on them
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Well, if anyone wants, they can buy my "amiga". Its a generic dual core PC with 4 gigs of RAM, running linux.
The price is only 900 dollars, which is a STEAL in amiga terms, and I'll put amiga stickers on everything.
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Well, if anyone wants, they can buy my "amiga". Its a generic dual core PC with 4 gigs of RAM, running linux.
The price is only 900 dollars, which is a STEAL in amiga terms, and I'll put amiga stickers on everything.
Install AROS on it and I'll give you a one off permission to sell it as an official Commodore Amiga. :)
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Well, if anyone wants, they can buy my "amiga". Its a generic dual core PC with 4 gigs of RAM, running linux.
The price is only 900 dollars, which is a STEAL in amiga terms, and I'll put amiga stickers on everything.
Only if it comes with Amiwm (http://www.lysator.liu.se/~marcus/amiwm.html) (real screen dragging since 1996) and Worker (http://www.boomerangsworld.de/worker/) installed :)