Ordered my AmigaOne X5000 from Amiga On The Lake in USA

[Iggy]

Maybe if it wasn't sold and marketed as a home game machine for the kids it would have done better. I hung on as long as possible with graphic and productivity but it was pointless by the early nineties.

Frankly, my company was selling its own multi-user 68K systems at the time, and after a visit from some IBM engineers (and the receipt of a pre-release copy of Window 3.0) I was able to accurately predict what would happen to the computer market.
Hey, having a better idea NEVER guarentees you a win in a commodity driven market.
And Commodore was fairly clueless about how to advance the Amiga.
Paula should have been scrapped in favor of a plug in audio card.
Same with AGA graphics. It was way to slow and unsuited for 3D graphics.

OUR machines always used plug in graphics cards (and a better OS, but that is besides the point).

Development of the 68000 series stopped as the Mac moved to PPC.
Commodore was foolish enough to be looking at PA-RISC.
And their best engineer, Dave Haynie was never that good anyway.
Certainly he was no Jay Miner, and Zorro III's dma issue clearly point to that.

Our dreams died, and those of second rate carnival barkers like Steve Jobs prospered.

[BozzerBigD]

@Iggy

The truth still stands that the American media clocked the amazing graphical and multimedia abilities of the Amiga and then proceeded to ask "What is the point!" Admittedly, it's up to the parent company to market their product and the black and white Amiga advertising in the 1985 launch era were scandalous but still the media saw the Amiga (in the flesh), were wowed by it and then had no imagination as to how to use it! Steve Jobs was perhaps right that these sorts of people don't know what they need until it's marketed to them but the majority of computer users in the UK and most of Europe understood the Amiga was special so why didn't American users get it? I thought green screen PCs sucked in the 80s and I still think Windows 10 sucks now (though by not as much but still). Why did people happily waste a decade of their lives between 1985 and 1995 using substandard IBM compatible rubbish while the Amiga was cheaper, more fun and brimming with potential from the people that brought you the C64! Windows 3.0 and 3.1 sucked. The only computer I ever used that used 3.1 was a old computer circa 1996 that powered a CAD plotter. It could cope with that in a sad industrial use kind of a way, but the GUI and general experience was below par. People only used it because they were "told" to by IT managers and industry bosses. Macs were fun but black and white screens in the early days and then clunky OS and the worst mice that I ever used in the iMac days.

[Iggy]

@Iggy

The truth still stands that the American media clocked the amazing graphical and multimedia abilities of the Amiga and then proceeded to ask "What is the point!" Admittedly, it's up to the parent company to market their product and the black and white Amiga advertising in the 1985 launch era were scandalous but still the media saw the Amiga (in the flesh), were wowed by it and then had no imagination as to how to use it! Steve Jobs was perhaps right that these sorts of people don't know what they need until it's marketed to them but the majority of computer users in the UK and most of Europe understood the Amiga was special so why didn't American users get it? I thought green screen PCs sucked in the 80s and I still think Windows 10 sucks now (though by not as much but still). Why did people happily waste a decade of their lives between 1985 and 1995 using substandard IBM compatible rubbish while the Amiga was cheaper, more fun and brimming with potential from the people that brought you the C64! Windows 3.0 and 3.1 sucked. The only computer I ever used that used 3.1 was a old computer circa 1996 that powered a CAD plotter. It could cope with that in a sad industrial use kind of a way, but the GUI and general experience was below par. People only used it because they were "told" to by IT managers and industry bosses. Macs were fun but black and white screens in the early days and then clunky OS and the worst mice that I ever used in the iMac days.

In a word Boz?
Software.
The same reason people were willing to put up with dreadful crap like CPM.
Which come to think of it MS-DOS was just a knock off of.
And Jobs with his over priced closed platform misuse of the 68K processor still pisses me off.
But as far as Europeans just "getting it"?
Sound like something the French would claim.

To this day I still see loads of Europeans embracing Macs or Linux.
Nothing in particular about either of those alternatives appeals to me.
One is perpetually overpriced and quickly obsolete, the other has a large base of software that isn't quite as capable as commercial alternatives.

And where did you get the bizarre idea that Amigas were affordable?
The high pricing sold a lot of Atari STs.

[David Wright]

We waited for good software and the most needed never arrived.

When I saw that I could have vga and super vga graphics with thousands of colors with real commercial graphic applications such as Corel suite, cheap word processors, and accounting software for my business, it was over,very reluctantly.
That and 3d games like Wolfenstein etc. it was hard to look back.

But I returned around 1999- 2000 and dropped it only to come back again this year , first with Cloanto, then Amibian and now ratcheting up a 1200.
Still fun but not deluding myself as to where my real computing will be.

If I do get my hands on a Vampire, that will be great but doesn't change much.

[amoskodare]

@amigasociety

Nice, let us know when you get it

[Iggy]

We waited for good software and the most needed never arrived.

When I saw that I could have vga and super vga graphics with thousands of colors with real commercial graphic applications such as Corel suite, cheap word processors, and accounting software for my business, it was over,very reluctantly.
That and 3d games like Wolfenstein etc. it was hard to look back.

But I returned around 1999- 2000 and dropped it only to come back again this year , first with Cloanto, then Amibian and now ratcheting up a 1200.
Still fun but not deluding myself as to where my real computing will be.

If I do get my hands on a Vampire, that will be great but doesn't change much.

Yeah, I really get that.
I've kept an A2000, and I have a CD32, but legacy Amiga hardware just stagnated.
Its fun to revisit, but it painfully obvious why we lost.

[BozzerBigD]

@Iggy

Its fun to revisit, but it painfully obvious why we lost.    

I get that the software houses didn't get on board as the IBM compatibles were already installed in US business and a lot of homes by 1985 but that doesn't mean with the right marketing and journalists actually singing the Amiga's praises in the mainstream press it couldn't have made more of a dent State-side! I mean the Video Toaster was a massive success and yet I haven't seen a single historical Commodore advert to help 'broadcast' the Amigas use in broadcasting, titling and 3-D raytracing etc! The journalist said it wasn't needed because PCs were 'good enough' and Commodore didn't want to push it as anything other than the next C64-like widget to get into Toys R Us! In 1985 we had a chance. By 1987 we still had a chance in UK with the A500 (and C= UK took that chance ;-)) but by 1987 the A2000 and later the A3000 (+ would have been better) could not establish themselves as competitors to the Mac never mind the PC in America. It's very very sad. At least as I say, the Amiga is remembered fondly in Europe for gaming (and Deluxe Paint) in the same warm fuzzy way the NES is in America. Seriously, it is that much of a beloved part of a lot of 30 and 40 somethings childhoods.

[David Wright]

Sorry to hijack the OPs original post. I would really like to hear about your experiences with this machine.
Something I wouldn't mind playing with and trying.

[SACC-guy]

Sorry to hijack the OPs original post. I would really like to hear about your experiences with this machine.
Something I wouldn't mind playing with and trying.

I'm beginning to use my X5000 every day.
With a tool like Sketchblock and I'm trying to learn Blender. I'm having a great time.

[Iggy]

Sorry to hijack the OPs original post. I would really like to hear about your experiences with this machine.
Something I wouldn't mind playing with and trying.

My apologies as well.
I didn't mean to get sidetracked over my angst about the track personal computing took.

As I intend to buy one of these, I'm particularly interested in hearing about it myself.

Lack of software be damned.

Oh, and game software for the Amiga has NEVER been my focus (European warm NES-like fuzzies or not). It was a damned good productivity machine.

Why would you pay thousands to play video games?

[slaapliedje]

My apologies as well.
I didn't mean to get sidetracked over my angst about the track personal computing took.

As I intend to buy one of these, I'm particularly interested in hearing about it myself.

Lack of software be damned.

Oh, and game software for the Amiga has NEVER been my focus (European warm NES-like fuzzies or not). It was a damned good productivity machine.

Why would you pay thousands to play video games?

Two words; Virtual Reality.

But yeah, I agree.  It was oddly the same from the Atari side, the ST was definitely more popular in Europe than the US.  Hell, I  have been searching for nearly a year for a US keyboard to replace my UK one on my Falcon.

[Iggy]

Two words; Virtual Reality.

But yeah, I agree.  It was oddly the same from the Atari side, the ST was definitely more popular in Europe than the US.  Hell, I  have been searching for nearly a year for a US keyboard to replace my UK one on my Falcon.

Yes, there is a Falcon on eBay right now going for $1500 that I'd actually consider buying if I had the available funds.
Crazy price, but a neat machine.
And having run Microware's OS-9 on an ST, I rather like the more bare bones nature of the Atari design.
The Amiga chipset was never central to my attraction to these machines.
It was the Motorola 68K cpus.

But I don't get the virtual reality comment, more like alternate reality.
But then, in a country dumb enough to vote in a president like Donald Trump, the success of the Wintel platform isn't that surprising.
Get ready to be taken to TrumpU everyone (a really funny name if you THINK about it).

[slaapliedje]

It was in response to why someone would pay a few thousand for video games.  granted, VR has far more uses as well.

I keep seeing that Falcon up there, it isn't quite worth the 1500 unless it is already moddded / expanded.  I think I got mine for 800, very nice machine out of the box.  Can even play MP3s due to the built in DSP.  My A4000 with an 060 still struggles to do that.

Speaking of 68k, which I also love.  There has been releases of Atari ST enhanced ports to the Atari Jaguar.  There were some questions asking about some Amiga ports to it, but of course those are a bit more difficult due to the custom chipset, where the ST used mostly just plain 68k instructions.

Pretty impressive after all these years to be getting more Jaguar games released.

[slygon]

I am seriously looking at the X5000 and ordering one from AmigaOnTheLake.  A couple of general questions... I grew up a Commodore guy, and I still have several C64's, but I never owned an Amiga.  I have played a bit with emulation over the years, and own many releases of Amiga Forever.  So, to my questions from a non-Amiga guy....

First, how is AmigaOS on the X5000?  I believe it is still pre-release, but it looks like it must be working fairly well now....

Second, and one more generic..... for someone that has never owned a next gen Amiga... what software do people run on OS4.1?  If I buy one, I would love to know what I can use the machine for.  They are expensive, but they look like a lot of fun... anyway... I think that is it for now!

[klx300r]

@ slygon

:hammer: my friend you get the best lurker award on this site and congrats on your 1st post joining the club with a new X5000:drink:

I can't comment on the X5000 but I would assume the latest AmigaOS4.1 on it will run as good as on my X1000 so I can attest that it's been running quite nice since installing 4.1FE, hopefully we get the much awaited small update to fix a few bug fixes when the X5K is released?

As for software to run, well you can check out amigaos.net, os4depot.net as well as tons of stuff on aminet.net. amistore.net is our online shop for OS4.1 specific programs.  If you're into programming there's quite a bit of help over at amigaos.net and hyperions forum.  Hollywood is getting better and better for the average Joe non programmer to get involved in making new stuff for NG and classics.
You can use alot of classic 68k apps/games using the great RunInUAE as well. Drawing/sketching and 3D with SketchBlock and Blender.
Personally I'm excited tom play the new game Tower 57 online with fellow amigans https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/514621648/tower-57

welcome back!

[slygon]

Number 1 Lurker award!  I love it!  .

Yes, I have been keeping an eye on the Amiga scene for a while... but the last time I became interested in buying one, you couldn't find anything.... the X1000's were drying up (and VERY, VERY expensive), and the AmigaOne 500 line and associated boards were not for sale.....

I think I will pull the trigger and buy one.  It seems like a ton of fun, a way to get back into retro computing without dealing with really old hardware (I have enough of that with my other Commodore machines), plus it seems like SOME modern abilities exist, like at least a decent browser, etc.