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Offline ElPolloDiablTopic starter

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I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« on: August 18, 2013, 12:30:48 PM »
Hi,
Is there enough desire for kickstarter funded production run of 060's. If so would they have to be faster than 50mhz? Or is 50mhz enough?

As an alternative should we try and get a run of 50mhz 030's?

I would settle for a 50mhz 060 model with working FPU. I could afford to pay $200 for one (CPU only) plus some more for kickstarter.

Are there general purpose fabs that can do a run of 1,000-2,000 chips?

Otherwise I'll settle for the less expensive FPGA route.
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Offline Bobo68

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Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2013, 12:58:11 PM »
Is there a problem to find working 060 @80+ US$?
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Offline ChaosLord

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Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2013, 01:35:53 PM »
50Mhz isn't close to enuff.


For me it needs to be at least 500 Mhz as a bare minimum for a new run.  And have MMU + FPU.

If we sit around and do nothing we will get 500Mhz FPGA 060s in 4 years without any kickstarter.


If you want a 50Mhz 060 you can buy those right now.  No need for a kickstarter.

If you want a 100Mhz 060 you can buy those right now.

Kickstarter is to make new things that don't already exist.


Another possibility is a bounty or kickstarter to make an ARM JIT to run Motorola bytecodes.  You should be able to get 300Mhz 060 speed (without MMU) on a wide variety of cheap ARM cpus.

There is no 68060 JIT for iphones because Steve Jobs personally banned it.

But everyone is allowed to code 68060 JIT for ARM cpus for 10 other devices.

There are multiple 1.0+ Ghz ARM cpu computers (usually with 2-4 cores) in the $99.00 range typically with 1GB+ of RAM.

Or you can buy a top-of-the-line smartphone from Samsung or HTC or Motorola and get a 1.6Ghz to 1.8Ghz ARM cpu with 2 or 4 cores + 2GB RAM and uses hardly any electricity.  They are much cheaper and more energy efficient than silly intel processors.  But those smartphones have expensive 1080P or 720P screens built in so they cost around $600.00.   But $600.00 for a 300Mhz 060 sounds like a damn good deal when I see ppl selling 80Mhz 060 cards with 64MB of ram for the same price!

If you are serious about a kickstarter you really need to find someone who can and WILL code an ARM JIT and focus on that.  It is 1000x less risky and cheaper and more achievable than trying to get some lame cpu company to fab new high speed 68060s.

I have been trying to brainwash Mrs. Beanbag into coding it for us but I have not been successful yet.  There are various ppl who could do it.  Matt Hey, Rachy, whoever wrote the JIT for MorphOS, + a dozen other ppl.

I will pay $300.00 for someone to code a working FREE OPENSOURCE JIT that works on ARM.  As proof it must be built into UAE and shown to work or optionally it must be built into a cheap arm computer and shown to run Amiga software.  This is so if UAE source code is too hard to understand, then there is another way.   For example, you could make it run on Raspberry Pi.  But I am more a fan of the better ARM chips in the other competing computers such as Ouya, or any of a zillion other computers in the $99.00 to $250.00 price range.  I prefer Cortex A9 atm.  But if you don't like that then ok I won't discriminate against Rpi.

My offer expires in 1 year.  But I reserve the right to extend it.  I can't leave my bounties open ended forever and ever or I might get hit with a whole bunch of bounties all at the same time and not have enuff cash to pay them all at once.  So I hafta keep things limited to something that I can GUARANTEED pay.   I know $300.00 is nothing for all the hours of work you hafta put into the project.  I'm sorry.  I am dying and have little money. :(  If I was rich I would pay $3000.00 or $30000.00 to get things moving.  Grrr!  I want something to get done but I have little power :*(
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Offline ElPolloDiablTopic starter

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Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2013, 01:53:50 PM »
$30,000 is halfway there.
I'm sure some unemployed ex Amiga user could do the whole thing for $60,000.

I think that someone will get around to the JIT on UAE eventually so maybe no need for a kickstarter on that.
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Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2013, 01:58:13 PM »
Amiga OS should've been here by now:

AMD Unveils Server Strategy and Roadmap - (June 18, 2013)
http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-unveils-2013june18.aspx
  Best-in-class ARM CPUs, and leading x86 CPUs and APUs for enterprise and data center servers

"Berlin" chip:
Quote
"...almost 8X the gigaflops per-watt compared to current AMD Opteron™ 6386SE processor."

"...built on AMD’s revolutionary Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA),  which enables uniform memory access for the CPU and GPU and makes  programming as easy as C++"
AMD to launch ARM processor, Seattle, in 2014 - (June 19, 2013)
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2013/06/19/amd-to-launch-arm-processor-seattle-in-2014/1
The SoC will be the industry's first 64-bit ARM processor.

For the desktop, AMD CPUs of 2Ghz, 3Ghz, 5Ghz etc.

That's where Amiga OS should've been by now--running on the 'common' hardware like that. :)
 

Offline ChaosLord

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Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2013, 02:08:01 PM »
Quote from: EyeAm;745130
Amiga OS should've been here by now:

[/I]"Berlin" chip: AMD to launch ARM processor, Seattle, in 2014 - (June 19, 2013)
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2013/06/19/amd-to-launch-arm-processor-seattle-in-2014/1
The SoC will be the industry's first 64-bit ARM processor.

For the desktop, AMD CPUs of 2Ghz, 3Ghz, 5Ghz etc.

That's where Amiga OS should've been by now--running on the 'common' hardware like that. :)


I agree in principle.   But we don't need the 64-bit part.  A normal cheap 32-bit ARM is perfect for AmigaOS.

I am surprised that MorphOS has not been ported to ARM yet.

Once MorphOS does it then Hyperion will do the same thing... 5 years later :)
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline nicholas

Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2013, 02:45:23 PM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;745127
50Mhz isn't close to enuff.


For me it needs to be at least 500 Mhz as a bare minimum for a new run.  And have MMU + FPU.

If we sit around and do nothing we will get 500Mhz FPGA 060s in 4 years without any kickstarter.


If you want a 50Mhz 060 you can buy those right now.  No need for a kickstarter.

If you want a 100Mhz 060 you can buy those right now.

Kickstarter is to make new things that don't already exist.


Another possibility is a bounty or kickstarter to make an ARM JIT to run Motorola bytecodes.  You should be able to get 300Mhz 060 speed (without MMU) on a wide variety of cheap ARM cpus.

There is no 68060 JIT for iphones because Steve Jobs personally banned it.

But everyone is allowed to code 68060 JIT for ARM cpus for 10 other devices.

There are multiple 1.0+ Ghz ARM cpu computers (usually with 2-4 cores) in the $99.00 range typically with 1GB+ of RAM.

Or you can buy a top-of-the-line smartphone from Samsung or HTC or Motorola and get a 1.6Ghz to 1.8Ghz ARM cpu with 2 or 4 cores + 2GB RAM and uses hardly any electricity.  They are much cheaper and more energy efficient than silly intel processors.  But those smartphones have expensive 1080P or 720P screens built in so they cost around $600.00.   But $600.00 for a 300Mhz 060 sounds like a damn good deal when I see ppl selling 80Mhz 060 cards with 64MB of ram for the same price!

If you are serious about a kickstarter you really need to find someone who can and WILL code an ARM JIT and focus on that.  It is 1000x less risky and cheaper and more achievable than trying to get some lame cpu company to fab new high speed 68060s.

I have been trying to brainwash Mrs. Beanbag into coding it for us but I have not been successful yet.  There are various ppl who could do it.  Matt Hey, Rachy, whoever wrote the JIT for MorphOS, + a dozen other ppl.

I will pay $300.00 for someone to code a working FREE OPENSOURCE JIT that works on ARM.  As proof it must be built into UAE and shown to work or optionally it must be built into a cheap arm computer and shown to run Amiga software.  This is so if UAE source code is too hard to understand, then there is another way.   For example, you could make it run on Raspberry Pi.  But I am more a fan of the better ARM chips in the other competing computers such as Ouya, or any of a zillion other computers in the $99.00 to $250.00 price range.  I prefer Cortex A9 atm.  But if you don't like that then ok I won't discriminate against Rpi.

My offer expires in 1 year.  But I reserve the right to extend it.  I can't leave my bounties open ended forever and ever or I might get hit with a whole bunch of bounties all at the same time and not have enuff cash to pay them all at once.  So I hafta keep things limited to something that I can GUARANTEED pay.   I know $300.00 is nothing for all the hours of work you hafta put into the project.  I'm sorry.  I am dying and have little money. :(  If I was rich I would pay $3000.00 or $30000.00 to get things moving.  Grrr!  I want something to get done but I have little power :*(


Doesn't UAE4All2 have a JIT core now?

I could have sworn it got one a few months back.

Maybe i'm thinking of AGA support.
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Offline ChaosLord

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Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2013, 03:40:51 PM »
UAE4all2 68020 CPU emu is coded in dreadfully slow C.
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline nicholas

Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2013, 04:19:11 PM »
Quote from: ChaosLord;745142
UAE4all2 68020 CPU emu is coded in dreadfully slow C.


Well there's always Cyclone which while not a JIT is written in ARM assembly and heavily optimized for speed.

http://notaz.gp2x.de/cyclone.php
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Offline spirantho

Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2013, 04:51:07 PM »
@ElPolloDiabl

If you're interested, utsource.net have them at $100 USD (last price known). They have 10-100 of them, minimum quantity 1 piece. I use them for all sorts of weird things (A2386SX bridgeboard RAM, AmigaOneXE sound chips, that sort of thing).

http://www.utsource.net/mc68060rc50.html
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Offline nicholas

Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2013, 05:23:04 PM »
Quote from: spirantho;745146
@ElPolloDiabl

If you're interested, utsource.net have them at $100 USD (last price known). They have 10-100 of them, minimum quantity 1 piece. I use them for all sorts of weird things (A2386SX bridgeboard RAM, AmigaOneXE sound chips, that sort of thing).

http://www.utsource.net/mc68060rc50.html


I notice they sell the mysterious MC68060FE133.

Has anyone ever been able to confirm that these are genuine parts?

All I've ever seen is rumours that they were manufactured by Freescale for secret military projects long after they had offically stopped making the 060.
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Offline Fransexy_

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Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2013, 05:52:35 PM »
Quote from: ElPolloDiabl;745118
Hi,
Is there enough desire for kickstarter funded production run of 060's. If so would they have to be faster than 50mhz? Or is 50mhz enough?

As an alternative should we try and get a run of 50mhz 030's?

I would settle for a 50mhz 060 model with working FPU. I could afford to pay $200 for one (CPU only) plus some more for kickstarter.

Are there general purpose fabs that can do a run of 1,000-2,000 chips?

Otherwise I'll settle for the less expensive FPGA route.


We could dream but a realistic production run should be 80--133 mhz with fpu and mmu. These chips could be made without redesign the chip.
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Offline nicholas

Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2013, 05:59:46 PM »
Quote from: Fransexy_;745154
We could dream but a realistic production run should be 80--133 mhz with fpu and mmu. These chips could be made without redesign the chip.


Freescale wouldn't even entertain the notion of a new production run unless a few million dollars worth of guaranteed orders were involved and as they own the IP no one else could make them without buying a licence and then we are back to the millions of dollars problem again.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline spirantho

Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2013, 06:41:25 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;745147
I notice they sell the mysterious MC68060FE133.

Has anyone ever been able to confirm that these are genuine parts?

All I've ever seen is rumours that they were manufactured by Freescale for secret military projects long after they had offically stopped making the 060.


The problem with such speeds isn't the CPU - it's that the boards that use the 68060 aren't ready for such high speeds. The RAM access and the support chips are just too slow to be of much use above 50MHz (though I believe up to 80MHz is still an appreciable difference, it's getting to be quite a headache to get that high because of the amount of overclocking).
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Offline JimDrew

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Re: I would/wouldn't like a production run of 060's
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2013, 06:43:50 PM »
If you are going to make a new CPU, don't make an 060... it has horrible issues that you have to deal with, making a LOT of software either partially or fully incompatible with it.  I would much prefer a 100MHz+ 68040.  No compatibility issues really, and a long tested and proven CPU.

I had to write a LOT of 68060 specific code and patch the crap out of the Mac OS to get it to work at all on the 060 (there was never a 060 Mac, and the OS was never going to be 060 friendly without a major re-write).  In the end, the overall speed for most everything end up being slower than a 33MHz 040.

If you're doing things that are static (ray trace and number crunching), the 060 is probably fine.  But, I hate that thing.  Give me an 040 any day!