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Author Topic: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.  (Read 6072 times)

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Offline IggyTopic starter

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ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« on: December 28, 2010, 03:13:44 AM »
But let's face facts guys. Amiga video is out of date. 256 color modes are garish, distorted and not photo realistic. Workbench is old, later versions are bloated, and it is not being updated.

Frankly, I have to conclude that your self justifying arguements to your reasoning for clinging to this outdated tech is soley based on your desire to retain certain games (and maybe a few other pieces of poorly written software that bangs hardware directly).

After considering AROS68K, I'm wondering if a simple PCI based 68K system would make a good project. Dump Paula and include a better audio system. Scrap ECS, AGA, etc. and rely soley on RTG.

Forget FPGAs and just use a 68k processor (020, 030, or 060).

Modern memory, usb, harddrive controllers.

Then build a verion of AROS that will outperform any legacy Amiga.

No it won't be compatible with AGA (it might be powerful enough to emulate ecs).

And Workbench? Has anyone here investigated Scalos? Why are we working so hard to recreate dated obsolete software that hasn't been updated in over a decade when there are better substitutes.

If we're going to reimplement elements of the Amiga, by eliminating some backward compatibility we could have a much more powerful, up to date system.

If anyone else is intewrested in this, let me know. It would be just as compatible as an Amiga 4000 using RTG, and we could consider options that aren't available with legacy hardware.
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Offline Franko

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2010, 03:24:36 AM »
Why on earth does everything have to be "photo realistic" !!!

Just because software was written that bangs the hardware doesn't mean it was poorly written, in fact most hardware banging software was very innovative and written by some very clever people.

Scalos is as you claim everything else on the Amiga to be, outdated... so why is this piece of outdated software being pushed so hard by you or are you just letting you highly biased opinions get the better of you.

If you can't accept the Amiga for what it is then stick to your powermac and leave the good stuff to those who truly enjoy it please... :)
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2010, 03:26:04 AM »
I'm not sure I understand. If you want a more modern system and backwards-compatibility with oldschool Amigas doesn't matter, why would you bother with an 040/060-based system at all? Switch to Coldfire and you've got a mostly 68k-compatible architecture at higher speeds, or scrap the whole thing and get a $150 ARM SBC, or an Atom board if you want to run AROS. It doesn't really make sense to drop crucial components of backwards compatibility and then try to claim it's the same thing.
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Offline Belial6

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2010, 03:40:43 AM »
Isn't that what AROS for ARM is for?  There really isn't anything left for saving in the original hardware except for the ability to run the original software.  Besides, if you run AROS x86 with the Janus UAE integration, all of that hardware banging software isn't banging hardware anymore.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 03:44:33 AM by Belial6 »
 

Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 04:14:52 AM »
Quote from: Belial6;602291
Isn't that what AROS for ARM is for?  There really isn't anything left for saving in the original hardware except for the ability to run the original software.  Besides, if you run AROS x86 with the Janus UAE integration, all of that hardware banging software isn't banging hardware anymore.


Yes, I'm a big fan of ARM too. Unlike the X86 (and like the PPC) it has the same endian structure as the 68K.
As to questions of why I would want a system that is only partially compatible, I think RTG owners would understand. I'd settle for an Amiga derivitive that was only RTG compatible because I wouldn't be locked into a specific video structure.

And Franko, don't presume a moral high ground because your willing to stubbornly stick with outdated hardware. Again, we're both using a Mac.
Only I'm using it the way it ought to be used. If you want to be negative, feel free not to post on this particular thread.
I think a system with no more compatibility than a Draco (but with modern expansion capabilities) would be cool. You don't have to contribute in any way.
Oh, and btw, your attack on emulation? I remember you positively responding on the Natami. Hate too disappoint you (or ciontradict Thomas) but FPGAs ARE emulating hardware (so its no more a real Amiga than Amiga forever).

Now, why would we want to do this? Because and RTG equipped A4000 is damned expensive. We could build a better system that was just as compatible that would cost less. I can get 68060/50s for about $40. I can flesh out the details of this prosal pretty quickly, but I'm not going to waste my time argueing with others about their narrow view of what an Amiga should be.

If anyone has a positive comment or practical idea, I'm open to your posts.
Anyone else can go back to playing with their toys.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

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Offline runequester

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2010, 04:19:41 AM »
THe thing the amiga community needs to sort out is:

Are we recreating the past?

Are we building something for the future?


Once everybody has settled on that, and settled on being hobby projects rather than some sort of fabled return of the promised land, we can move forward (or backward)
 

Offline Franko

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2010, 04:31:59 AM »
@ Iggy

Gawd... you don't half make me laugh...

If you think I'm taking the moral high ground your sadly mistaken, If I ever do you'll be the first to know...

The point about the Natami and why I like this Idea so much is that is supposed to be 100% backward compatible, how it achieves this is of no consequence to me. If it's not 100% backwards compatible then I wont be buying it.

Negative !!! you haven't had a good thing to say about the Amiga in any the threads you been currently posting in, so don't talk to me about being negative.

You go on telling folk to go play with their toys, any respect I had for your opinions and what you have to say (and I did respect a lot of the thing you have said previously) has now gone straight out the window and went splat all over the concrete below.

PS:I feel free to post wherever I want and don't need advice on where to post, thank you very much :)
 

Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2010, 04:40:15 AM »
Quote from: Franko;602305
@ Iggy

Gawd... you don't half make me laugh...

If you think I'm taking the moral high ground your sadly mistaken, If I ever do you'll be the first to know...

The point about the Natami and why I like this Idea so much is that is supposed to be 100% backward compatible, how it achieves this is of no consequence to me. If it's not 100% backwards compatible then I wont be buying it.

Negative !!! you haven't had a good thing to say about the Amiga in any the threads you been currently posting in, so don't talk to me about being negative.

You go on telling folk to go play with their toys, any respect I had for your opinions and what you have to say (and I did respect a lot of the thing you have said previously) has now gone straight out the window and went splat all over the concrete below.

PS:I feel free to post wherever I want and don't need advice on where to post, thank you very much :)


Franko, feel free to go trolling whereever you feel you must. I just hope you don't divert too many of the post with a point (like the one before yours).

And its yor opinion that my posts haven't been positive. My posts only reflect my disappointment at the failure of our community to evolve and expand.

As mentioned in the post before yours, I guess I'm on the side of new evolving systems.

And btw, if you're hoping for 100% compatibility with the Natami you're bound to be disappointed since there isn't 100% compatibility amongst all Amigas.

I'm logging off for the night. We can take this up tomorrow. Take care old man.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

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Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline coldfish

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2010, 04:41:29 AM »
The trouble with this place is it gets harder and harder to spot the trolls from the poeple who just have a halfbaked idea an present it in a defensive/offensive way.

Me, I'm one of the trollish kind. I think Iggy might be the latter? :oP
 

Offline Franko

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2010, 04:59:40 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;602308
Franko, feel free to go trolling whereever you feel you must. I just hope you don't divert too many of the post with a point (like the one before yours).

And its yor opinion that my posts haven't been positive. My posts only reflect my disappointment at the failure of our community to evolve and expand.

As mentioned in the post before yours, I guess I'm on the side of new evolving systems.

And btw, if you're hoping for 100% compatibility with the Natami you're bound to be disappointed since there isn't 100% compatibility amongst all Amigas.

I'm logging off for the night. We can take this up tomorrow. Take care old man.


Growl... Blargh... Im a big bad troll now coming to eat up poor Iggy... :roflmao:

Ah well nighty night young Iggy I'll sneak up behind you tomorrow (or should I say today, it 5am here) and we can carry on our little debate... :)

Off now to do some trolling and maybe even a bit of witchcraft in the woods at the back of me house... fee fie fo fum I've got a smelly bum... :)
 

Offline dannyp1

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2010, 06:13:19 AM »
It's a hobby!  Anyone pretending anything else is kidding themselves.
 

Offline Retro_71

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2010, 07:29:55 AM »
Seriously it is a hobby and I happen to like messing around with it. Personally I would rather wait and buy Natami then what you propose as for me it looks too limited for what I want.
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Offline tone007

Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2010, 07:50:39 AM »
Quote from: coldfish;602310
halfbaked idea an present it in a defensive/offensive way.


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Offline whabang

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2010, 09:00:26 AM »
Lies, blatant lies!
Beating the dead horse since 2002.
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: ECS, AGA, Workbench? No I don't hate them.
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2010, 09:40:42 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;602285
Amiga video is out of date ... clinging to this outdated tech ... retain certain games (and maybe a few other pieces of poorly written software that bangs hardware directly) ... working so hard to recreate dated obsolete software that hasn't been updated in over a decade
All of those things are part of a retro computing hobby. I don't really understand why this is such a problem for you.

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80  GOTO 10