A-EON Technology Acquires Amiga.org

[OlafS3]

I do not see the moderation on other sites as always fair and balanced. And if the same people that moderate there also moderate this site they will do it the same way. Or do you think different?

[OlafS3]

@Olafs3

We are in the process of talking to all the moderators.

My personal opinion is that on the rare occasion that a moderator has to step in and edit a post, they should reference the section of the Amiga.org Rules to clearly explain publically what part of the post has broken the rules.

Most people want to have fun discussing the computer platform that they have enjoyment from without having to get into conflicts with other users.

We all know that this has not been the case at Amiga.org recently and there are a *very* *small* minority of users who want to push their ideas, promote their "Amiga" platform by making statements not backed up by fact and also they will re-iterate inflamatory statements which are likely to get a reaction from other users, essentially to create friction on the thread (stir up trouble).  A moderator will then need to step in an diffuse the situation and point the thread back on track.  In extreme cases, maybe even close the thread or take other formal actions.

So I see it as consistent but fair moderation.

BTW: in future, if a moderator needs to apply the rules to one of my posts, I will welcome that and apologise for my infringement of the rules.  We are all human and can make mistakes.

"backed up by fact"

If somebody says that certain hardware is not competitive regarding price as a example it is backed by facts. Would that be accepted as a view or censored because not the new majority view? As I wrote moderation here was much more tolerant here than on sites like amigaworld and that has to do with the moderators. If you put in the same people here than there (what is the case obviously) then you get the same results, a kind of amigaworld 2.0. When that is your goal then it is ok, you own it but that is not what most users here wanted otherwise they would have posted on amigaworld and not here. You understand what I mean?

Here was a different group of users with different interests and views

[OlafS3]

Simply complaining about the problem doesn't fix the problem. Maybe here is your cue to put your hand up as a new moderator? If you are not prepared to be a part of the solution you shouldn't complain about it  

I would be very surprised if I get the offer

Forgotten, I am a "troll", post too often in related threads

[OlafS3]

@Olafs3

That is their personal view and it should be respected.   Value to different people is perceived in many different ways.  

However, when someone re-iterates that point, especially with inflammatory statements and creates an agenda consistently without contributing anything positive to the thread, it may be considered as trying to create controversy and promote their agenda on other people without consideration to other people's views on the matter.  I also notice that sometimes, statements are taken out of context to create negativity.

When I joined this forum 10 years ago, it was very different place.  Lets get back to discussing the "Amiga" - the small minority can spoil this website for the vast majority here.

Perception is always subjective. It would be already a big win if there would be transparency, if moderators must justify their actions and even loose the status when misusing it. There will always be different views.

[OlafS3]

@Olafs3

I dislike the words "troll" and "trolling": they are abused to describe behavior on forums and become too broad in definition.  If someone infringes the rules, they should be specifically told exactly the rule that has been breached, not labelled as "trolling".  Accountability is very important to make Amiga.org a friendly place to visit.

I used it because you can often read it and someone used it against me. Transparency regarding any decision would be needed, be it changes of postings or warnings/bannings against users. And the moderators should not hide behind the TOS (like they always do) but justify their view against the users. If it is justified and covered by rules they can do that without problem.

[OlafS3]

Not sure what you mean by that.

 It has been possible for users to edit their own posts since the first xoops version of the site which was literally over a decade ago. Not exactly a new thing.

it was sarcasm

[OlafS3]

huh back already from your 'threat' of leaving? mysterious ?? fully agree with mod's decision below and his reasons were well laid out.  Seeing as reading comprehension isn't your forte I've attached the aforementioned post below and I'll be clear once again that it wouldn't matter whether he were talking about either of the Amiga flavours available today as per post no. 106 (quoting myself here):

The vested interest is in providing a community portal for all Amiga  users without prejudice and without someone blatantly repeating over and  over again why their chosen flavour is better than another users.
Enjoy what you like and respect that others do the same. Sounds simple right.        

mikeymike's edited post:

     Quote:
                                                                      Originally Posted by haywirepc                                    
                 x1000 is a big huge monstrous dud. 3k? Ppc is dead. os4 is a bad joke by now.
                                 
       Quote:
                                                                      Originally Posted by haywirepc                                    
                 os4, hyperion, sam boards and x1000?
Worst option forward. Just one guys opinions.
                                 
       Quote:
                                                                      Originally Posted by haywirepc                                    
                 If this site becomes a cheerleader camp for os4/sam/x1000 I'm out.
                                 
       Quote:
                                                                      Originally Posted by haywirepc                                    
                 Everyday use amiga systems now forming... but its aeros and aros and Morphos leading that charge now...
                                 
  - edited by mikeymike, with a couple of quotes left over so people can see why I've intervened -

You say you don't want a cheerleader site, then perhaps you should start by not acting like a cheerleader yourself.

It is Haywires view and his view is as valid as yours (believing in X1000...). Nobody has the right to judge what view is valid and what not. There was nothing insulting in the post, not against Trevor and not against other AmigaOS user. If such a posting is treated this way it is called censorship and that is obviously new to this site. And that has risen the mistrust by many user even further. If a company with obvious economic interests takes over a user site it should avoid anything that creates the impression of censorship. Do you understand what I mean?

[OlafS3]

Yep, I agree with that quote from  klx300r..

Why do you think most OS4 users prefers to hang out on AW.net and Amigans instead of hanging out here on Amiga.org?

Yes, it's because of those "aggressive and inflammatory views" from a  small minority of users just expressing their "freedom of speech",  that's why :-)

What would you think if some users would always start to throw cr*p in threads where MorphOS or AROS is mentioned?

Not very nice to see that isn't it. Why not just skip the abusive  behavior and accepts other persons' choices of "Amiga" variants (as that  is their choice), and leave it at that. At least I do (I don't  bother/mind if you are black or white, what country you come from,  what religion you believe in, or what computer OS you prefer, etc...) and many others

PS: my two cents


So, back to topic... Trevor and Matthew (AmigaKit) are not some  outsiders or any furniture dealers who just bought something "Amiga" to  earn some fast buck. No, they have been in the amigascene (also using and  supporting "Amiga") for many many years. So nothing strange with them owning A.org...

Have a good day (or night) :-)

Propably people look at the same post different when they are OS4 fans or not. His words were a little harsh, partly facts partly emotions. But when you mention other sites, perhaps it is also the opposite that non-OS4 users do not feel on these sites at home too. Perhaps there are two realities out there, not just the OS4 supporter reality.

[OlafS3]

@ OlafS3

seriously I know you to be more level headed then that.  Those 'views' are the reason many OS4.x users don't dare even bother with this site in the past.

yet another example, I love using my Amiga 1000 regularly too so now I go to a site and post a question specific to the A1000 and then some person posts his 'views' as follows:

 
                 Amiga 1000 is a big huge monstrous dud. 3k? 512Kb chip ram is a bad joke by now.
                                 
       or,
                 
Amiga 1000 is Worst option forward. Just one guys opinions.
                                 
       or                
                 Everyday use amiga systems now forming... but its aeros and aros and Morphos leading that charge now...

----------------------------------------------------------------

well do you think that Amiga 1000 user would feel welcome here and what would he say to others about such a site??

I would personally never use such words and besides I do not care what other people use their money for.

When I would say something similar I would say that in todays world any "custom designs" without offering advantages compared to standard hardware are the wrong direction, that it would be better to port something to cheaper mass hardware, "Hardware for the masses, not the classes" and that high-prized hardware without benefits will not bring new users. Would that be a "view" or already "trolling". If I wrote the same on other sites I already get harsh comments, here it was possible.

I cannot and will not judge or compare AmigaOS compared to MorphOS or AROS because I do not own it. In practise all have (more or less) the same software, the biggest difference is supported hardware. Haywire wrote it in emotion and it would be better to be more polite and base it on facts. When I write something I (mostly) try to offer facts and describe why I think something. If that would become a rule here that you can critisize but not by using harsh words but that should be the same for everyone (including OS4 supporters). As a example someone claimed that AmigaOS is the only "true Amiga successor". By that he said AROS and MorphOS user are not Amigans. That can be also seen as insulting but that was never censored. And if two have a argument and both are harsh both must be banned or none. People should treated equal.

[OlafS3]

Im not going to speak on behalf of Amigakit and what they think of competition, cause I have no idea in that regard.

But;
Yes there is a relativly limited customerbase, so being very active on the market is a good way to conduct buissniss.
As a enduser I for the most part have a few requirements to a vedor/shop;

1) Ease of use/web front
Amigakits shop/inventory list could use some tidying up. Its not very easy to find stuff, but more often than not using their search function fixes the issue. If everything fails, search for the product and add the shopname in a searchengine. But there are room for improvements.

2) Reliable delivery
After 1 or 2 orders you get a clear impression wether or not you can trust the vendor.
So far they have not dissapointed me, so I have had little reason to look elsewhere.
Customers are often quite loyal once they find a vendor they feel comfortable with, as long as the pricing isnt far off competition.

3) Being able to get in touch with vendor
So far Ive gotten replies from Amigakit within relativly short time when Ive queried.

Ive known of Amigakit for a long time because Matthew is relativly active on the forum. Visibility is important in buissniss.
The company got a good name. Its easy to find by a quick search. So that was a smart move.

I find it hard to fault a  company for wanting to maximise their turnover/buissniss thru good customer service.
I do see your point it might create a monopoly situation, but I find the streamlining of service Amigakit is developing as a needed level of professionalism that this platform desperatly need (be it NG or Classic).

Obviously I hope other vendors manage to create enough buissniss to justify their efforts on the Amiga platform.

We will see in future if this will stay a neutral platform and if competing platforms like AROS (including my distribution) or MorphOS and solutions like Pascals App Store (that directly competes with the App Store from a-eon that makes Amigakit Marketing for) will be treated equal. I will judge them by their actions.

[OlafS3]

@itix

I know, its not going to be easy.

Don't forget this is a primarily Classic Amiga forum (the common link with everyone here).  So I think the emphasis will be on the Classic Amiga topics.  This is still the biggest user base.

However, Amiga.org should be welcoming to MorphOS, AmigaOS 4, Emulation and AROS users too.

If we work together on raising the standards here, I think we will succeed.

A practical idea... why not create a "free speech" thread where people can discuss without heavy censoring. It could be off the main page and nobody is forced to read it if he do not like it (of course not insulting people like "xyz is a idiot/stupid" and so on

[OlafS3]

Sorry I have seen already the same the other way round. And if a former amiga-user shows f.e. on amigaworld he is vrtual surrounded by a huge crowd of people trying to persuade him to buy AmigaOS hardware. i think it is ok to at least mention that there are alternatives. Of course when you see that he has decided himself for AmigaOS you have to accept that and not trying to convince him that is wrong. But one time mentioning is ok for me. What do you think?

[OlafS3]

Another option is defaulting to an expanded threaded view, where posts (and replies) can be collapsed according to the users wishes. Some +/- 'helpful post' voting system could be used to define which (if any) posts are collapsed by default.

That's about the only combination of 'I want my free speech' and 'I don't want to have to read that crap again' that I can think of.

It depends of the forum software