Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Iridium Banner AMIStore App Store A1200/A600 4xIDE Interface

AuthorTopic: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?  (Read 6794 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline KennyR

Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2003, 01:40:49 PM »
Quote
@ KennyR: Why would I invest money in any of the PPC solutions available at the moment when my PC outperforms all of them?


Because there is nothing currently running on a PC that is any substitute for a PPC solution, plain and simple. WinUAE is a slug compared to my Pegasos, and as I have twice said, it lacks support for newer PPC software - the stuff that actually needs all this CPU power you're throwing at it. What else do you use it all for, IBrowse? Clickboom's Quake?

UAE is great for playing old games, and I'll look forward to a GUIfied version with JIT for my Pegasos, but as a replacement for an Amiga for everyday use UAE is both deeply unsatisfying and somewhat unpractical. That's why it's worth buying PPC hardware.
 

Offline Aegis

Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2003, 02:46:56 PM »
I wasn't inferring that Windows-based Amiga emulation is faster than running an Amiga-compatible OS natively on PPC hardware - just that my Amiga 68k software needs are well catered for by Amiga Forever/WinUAE.

As far as PPC software goes, the Amiga development community has shrunk so much that there isn't a single "killer" app left to fight the Amiga's corner (with the possible exception of the ever-capable Image FX which I can continue to use under emulation).

If all I did with my computer was play games, browse the net, send emails and use a word-processor I'd probably still be using an Amiga now but I bought my original A500 for DPaint and the huge potential the Amiga had for graphics work, a potential which is all but gone now and sadly, the time has long since passed since I was able to justify using an Amiga (hardware or emulated) for "everyday use"  :-(

When there's some capable pro or semi-pro level 3D and Video Editing software/hardware with industry-standard compatibility running on A1/Pegasos hardware then maybe I'll take a look but I suspect Linux will get there long before the Amiga does (which I'll probably investigate too).

The only other inroad for me into Amiga PPC hardware would be to purchase an A1/Pegasos box as a dual-boot Linux render node with either Amiga OS 4 or Morph OS - I guess I could always run Mac-on-Linux as well to add a bit more value but really all it would be is a new toy to play with when I'm not working and an expensive toy at that.
Catapultem habeo. Nisi pecuniam amnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.
 

Offline KennyR

Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2003, 02:52:07 PM »
Don't forget that using a PC is masochistic matched against using a fast Amiga. This is why people use UAE in the first place. I don't use my machine as a toy - I surf, play divx, emulate other systems and play games on it. My PC usually sits switched off, ignored.
 

  • Guest
Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2003, 03:12:15 PM »
Quote

KennyR wrote:
Don't forget that using a PC is masochistic matched against using a fast Amiga. This is why people use UAE in the first place. I don't use my machine as a toy - I surf, play divx, emulate other systems and play games on it. My PC usually sits switched off, ignored.


Erm.... I thought thats what using your computer as a toy involves? :-D
 

Offline Aegis

Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2003, 03:18:11 PM »
Aw c'mon - I'm using Window XP Pro and it works just fine - yeah it's got M$'s patented "kiddie" colours desktop, yeah it's major bloatware and obviously a native x86 version of Amiga OS would run rings around it but at the end of the day it runs the apps I need to stay in business.

WinXP ain't masochistic, it's just not Amiga OS - hell, I don't even notice Windows anymore - it's not like I DO much with it - all the magic happens in the apps that I use (most of which were once Amiga only - LightWave, Aura (TVPaint), Video Toaster 2, MainActor etc.)

Anyway - I'm not implying that your or anyone else's Amiga is a toy - just that If I bought one right now (which I can't anyway 'cause I need to spend my moolah on more 15k SCSI drives and a heap o' RAM) it would be used as precisely that.

I've waited as long as everyone else here for an Amiga revival and we're not there yet - Nothing would give me more pleasure than picking up a brand new Amiga system but until I have a use for it that's not gonna happen.
Catapultem habeo. Nisi pecuniam amnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.
 

Offline KennyR

Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2003, 03:23:25 PM »
I'm afraid I can't STAND WindowsXP. It's so slow it gives me a headache. And that's not even going into all spyware...
 

  • Guest
Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #51 on: June 16, 2003, 03:32:32 PM »
Quote

KennyR wrote:
I'm afraid I can't STAND WindowsXP. It's so slow it gives me a headache.


What the hell are you running it on then?

It's slow to boot up, but it's not slow once you're up and running.

If you hibernate the PC, then XP starts up just as fast as AmigaOS does.
 

Offline Aegis

Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2003, 03:39:55 PM »
Well I can't disagree with you there - even on a fast Pentium 4 there's all kinds of strange behaviour (staring in disbelief at that little torch trying to find your hard disks is a favourite  :-D ) and if I could run the software I need on an Amiga then that's just what I'd be doing.

But bloat-induced performance issues aside it does everything I need it to and surely that's the point?

I'm working on a series of short films at the moment which I'm hoping to get commercially released and my Dell Dimension 'Toaster 2 setup allows me to capture DV footage, edit uncompressed real-time video with LightWave-generated visual effects, mix audio and output to DVD all from one box AND I can play "The Chaos Engine" on it when I'm bored :-D

If there's a PPC Amiga that can do that then hell, yeah - I'm interested...
Catapultem habeo. Nisi pecuniam amnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.
 

Offline KennyR

Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2003, 03:48:23 PM »
Quote
What the hell are you running it on then?

It's slow to boot up, but it's not slow once you're up and running.


1.3 GHz Athlon. It takes so long to do anything that I've just given up on it. If it wasn't the family's I'd find an iso of Win2000 and install that.

Hibernating the PC is problematic on Windows. Once it wakes, your memory as as fragmented as it was when you shut it off. And Windows just keeps getting slower...and slower...and slower...
 

Offline Terminills

Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2003, 04:14:49 PM »
@KennyR

 what speed hd's are you running... I run windows XP on a nice 10K rpm scsi and it's very responsive even on a 1.2 ghz athlon... Tho I have been debating thjrowing the scsi in my dual PIII just to see which is quicker.    :-D
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

edited by mod: this has been addressed
 

Offline Stom

Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2003, 06:57:11 PM »
KennyR, dunno bout that slow boot speed you say in WinXP. My PC machine usually gets itself into gear quicker than the miggy does nowadays! :-/

Running on a XP1700 CPU WinXP boot time is around-about 18seconds (after the bios screen has gone which is a few secs worth)

Anyway, that was totally of topic i guess! :-/

Cheerio
(oh, dunno if anyone is interested but I uploaded a 'preview' of the redesigned amiga-mediator site to www.stom.co.uk, lemme know what you think)
Cheerio,
Sam Thomas
Unofficial Amiga Mediator support site
www.stom.org.uk - Personal (unfinished) homepage.
#Stomshouse on Arcnet
 

Offline B00tDisk

  • VIP / Donor - Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2002
  • Posts: 1670
  • Total likes: 1
    • http://www.thedelversdungeon.com
Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2003, 07:15:49 PM »
How would it run?

Let's just say that if you ran it at anything other than 320x200, all "effects" off, you'd have an FPR, not an FPS.

("First Person Raytracer" as opposed to "First Person Shooter")
Back away from the EU-SSR!
 

Offline KennyR

Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2003, 07:22:55 PM »
Ok, topic has gone waaaaay OT, so this'll be my last post here.

My PC hardware isn't impressive: the HD is probably 'generic' UDMA and I only have 128MB of RAM, of which kind I have no idea, but it's a DIMM. The 'low' amount of RAM is probably the reason why its so painfully slow. I mean it. It gives me migraines just remembering it. I avoid that computer like the plague. :-(

But...Windows XP is slow, even comparing it against other versions of Windows. It has gained notoriety for it, even to the point where it gets slower with every 'hotfix' update. Couple this with the fact that VM thrashes constantly from power on to power off on my PC, and I have a system that is so unusably slow that even my family complain about it.

And it's partly my Amiga and Pegasos's fault, really. They've really eroded my patience. They are so responsive and fast that I just don't realise what kind of sluggishness Windows, Mac and Linux users put up with on a daily basis. They're used to it, I'm not. I guess most people here have never used a really fast Amiga, (currently only the Pegasos or Amithlon box, in my experience UAE doesn't qualify, sorry UAE users). There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's like using a monitor instead of a TV - once you try it, you just can't and won't go back.
 

Offline B00tDisk

  • VIP / Donor - Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2002
  • Posts: 1670
  • Total likes: 1
    • http://www.thedelversdungeon.com
Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2003, 07:46:14 PM »
Quote

KennyR wrote:
Ok, topic has gone waaaaay OT, so this'll be my last post here.


That's a pity.  You touched on something I like to discuss periodically, below.  Well, maybe you'll rethink and reply after reading this post.

Quote

My PC hardware isn't impressive: the HD is probably 'generic' UDMA and I only have 128MB of RAM, of which kind I have no idea, but it's a DIMM. The 'low' amount of RAM is probably the reason why its so painfully slow. I mean it. It gives me migraines just remembering it. I avoid that computer like the plague. :-(


$15 USD would fix that problem for you.  And about five to ten minutes tweaking things.  I hate to sound snippy, but please don't come back with a reply about "having to tweak things" - I break out in a cold sweat when I think about the poor bastards trying to keep towerized A1200's with a ####load of "dangly bits" hacked on, and library after library added on, and other hardware leeching VRAM from 3d cards to work properly...the list could go on.

So if you can spend 10=15 minutes getting an Amiga "working right", you could do the same to remedy your PC issues.

Quote

But...Windows XP is slow, even comparing it against other versions of Windows. It has gained notoriety for it, even to the point where it gets slower with every 'hotfix' update. Couple this with the fact that VM thrashes constantly from power on to power off on my PC, and I have a system that is so unusably slow that even my family complain about it.


You just said you were using substandard hardware you didn't want to be bothered working on, upgrading, or troubleshooting.  Who's fault is the slowness?  Further, did it occur to you that you can turn off the alpha blending and other things in XP to make it visually identical to 2000?  Or even '95?  This speeds it up greatly - and again, takes but a few minutes.

It's not Microsoft's fault for assuming you've got a reasonably fast computer.  I realize the Amiga mindset is to cling to the low-end standard as long as possible to squeeze as much performance out of the hardware, but the days when that was necessary are (thankfully!) long, long gone.  I mean, I didn't try to run OS3.0 at 640x480x128 on my unexpanded A1200 (Well, I did once to see what it would look like - very pretty, and far, far too SLOW!).  I ran it at a lower resolution and color depth.  I tweaked it so it ran as well as could be expected on the platform I had...

Quote

And it's partly my Amiga and Pegasos's fault, really. They've really eroded my patience. They are so responsive and fast that I just don't realise what kind of sluggishness Windows, Mac and Linux users put up with on a daily basis.


Here's another "amiga thing" I never understood, even when I owned and actively used an Amiga:  "The OS!  It's great!  Look at that window!  Look at that menu!  Bang!  Opens right up!  Boom! Closes right down!"

By that standard, GEOS on my C64 was about a million times better than anything the Amiga had going - except, of course, it wasn't.

Why?  

Because the software wasn't there.  I don't "use" an OS.  There are features of various OS's that get use from me, yes.  Sometimes Calc comes in handy.  Every once in a blue moon I'll open the shell to do some Q&D TCPIP work - but beyond being a place from which I launch applications, the OS is, quite frankly, meaningless.

That's why I've never "gone Mac" or "gone (back to the) Amiga".  The apps aren't there.  They just Are Not.  Internet Explorer and other browsers are the programs: The OS is merely the thing they sit upon.  An OS neither robs my pocket nor fills it.  

If DOS was still the rule of the day*, I'd be using it if that's where all the apps were.  If the Amiga was still a viable contender (that is, stronger than the Mac in the computer market in the 'States and at least as strong as the PC), I'd use it - because the applications would be there.

But that's not the case.  It wasn't when the Amiga was "huge" here - unless you were big in to Video Editing.


Quote

They're used to it, I'm not. I guess most people here have never used a really fast Amiga, (currently only the Pegasos or Amithlon box, in my experience UAE doesn't qualify, sorry UAE users).


Steve G.?  Is that you? (No, wait, you didn't call for the immediate arrest of Bernd Meyer, nor did you post foul language from an anon reposter, so I don't guess it is S.G. :lol:)

I, for one, have used a "Fast" Amiga.  Had one.  Sold it, bought a PC.  For the day, my 28mhz/030 Amiga was damn fast.  PPC cards were a gleam in H&Ps eye, and DCE was still a trustworthy company.  030/28/2mb chip/4mb Fast, 60mb HD.

Not the fastest, but a contender in Amiga terms in 1993.

But ultimately, it will be what's available for the AmigaOne when or if it plus AmigaOS for the A1 materialize that determines whether or not I'll come back to the Amiga platform.  Despite the delusions of some folks (not you, just some!) neither the PC standard nor Microsoft are going away any time soon, so an A1 purchase would be in addition to the stuff I already have.  The A1 would become part of the big happy family of computer gear I have! :D

Providing there was something I could do with it..  Playing with the OS and going "Oooh!  This boots/moves windows/opens menus so much faster than XP!" doesn't constitute "something I could do".

Footnote:
*No matter how hard some other deluded fools wish it, DOS has nothing to do with XP, 2000 or NT of any flavor.  Nada.
Back away from the EU-SSR!
 

  • Guest
Re: Quake II on a 68060 @ 50Mhz?
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2003, 07:52:22 PM »
@Kenny

You have a Time Computer's PC am I correct? ;-)