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Offline HopperJFTopic starter

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #29 from previous page: December 01, 2004, 10:50:32 PM »
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Hammer wrote:
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HopperJF wrote:
Why is OSX and DOS contradictory?

Both are fundamentally similar.
 
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I just dont like Windows  :-)

Your choice...


Tis. And that even includes me using the amazing Windows XP you all rave about  :-)
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Offline HopperJFTopic starter

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2004, 10:51:57 PM »
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Hammer wrote:
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HopperJF wrote:
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bloodline wrote:
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FastRobPlus wrote:
>>You can even print for free from Macs (from XP it costs 5 cents per page)

That's strange!  My guess is the university must have an app that tracks print jobs and chrages back the students, but the app is not avilable on the Mac so they waive tha charge?!?

I wonder if you could emulate a Mac on the PC and print from the emulation to avoid a charge? :)


PearPC :-D


Hey it works the other way around too. You can have the better PPC architecture and emulate Windows XP on a Mac if you reeealy want to!! :crazy:

Note, Virtual PC is a Microsoft product...  :-P


So??
I don't know why all you Windows-defenders think I hate Microsoft because I hate Windows  :lol:
I have a bloody Xbox here for crying out loud! I just think MacOS is a hell of a lot better and half a decade ahead!
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Offline HopperJFTopic starter

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2004, 10:52:51 PM »
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bloodline wrote:
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HopperJF wrote:
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bloodline wrote:
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HopperJF wrote:
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itix wrote:
I'd choose Windows. OS X is slow and software support is inadequate. OS X GUI design is just a horror.


Yeah because tellytubbies XP is much better!  :roflmao:

 :crazy:


You can switch tellytubby mode off on XP... you can't on OSX :-(


Wronnng  :lol:


Then tell me how, because OSX is really annoying.


How is it more annoying than Windows???
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2004, 11:08:20 PM »
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HopperJF wrote:
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bloodline wrote:
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HopperJF wrote:
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bloodline wrote:
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HopperJF wrote:
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itix wrote:
I'd choose Windows. OS X is slow and software support is inadequate. OS X GUI design is just a horror.


Yeah because tellytubbies XP is much better!  :roflmao:

 :crazy:


You can switch tellytubby mode off on XP... you can't on OSX :-(


Wronnng  :lol:


Then tell me how, because OSX is really annoying.


How is it more annoying than Windows???


Because I don't like eye candy... I already said...

Offline Hammer

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2004, 11:14:53 PM »
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HopperJF wrote:
Quote

Hammer wrote:
Quote

HopperJF wrote:
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bloodline wrote:
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FastRobPlus wrote:
>>You can even print for free from Macs (from XP it costs 5 cents per page)

That's strange!  My guess is the university must have an app that tracks print jobs and chrages back the students, but the app is not avilable on the Mac so they waive tha charge?!?

I wonder if you could emulate a Mac on the PC and print from the emulation to avoid a charge? :)


PearPC :-D


Hey it works the other way around too. You can have the better PPC architecture and emulate Windows XP on a Mac if you reeealy want to!! :crazy:

Note, Virtual PC is a Microsoft product...  :-P


So??
I don't know why all you Windows-defenders think I hate Microsoft because I hate Windows  :lol:

I’m not serious in any of my postings; so don’t worry...  :-P
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Offline HopperJFTopic starter

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2004, 11:24:12 PM »
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Hammer wrote:
Quote

HopperJF wrote:
Quote

Hammer wrote:
Quote

HopperJF wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

FastRobPlus wrote:
>>You can even print for free from Macs (from XP it costs 5 cents per page)

That's strange!  My guess is the university must have an app that tracks print jobs and chrages back the students, but the app is not avilable on the Mac so they waive tha charge?!?

I wonder if you could emulate a Mac on the PC and print from the emulation to avoid a charge? :)


PearPC :-D


Hey it works the other way around too. You can have the better PPC architecture and emulate Windows XP on a Mac if you reeealy want to!! :crazy:

Note, Virtual PC is a Microsoft product...  :-P


So??
I don't know why all you Windows-defenders think I hate Microsoft because I hate Windows  :lol:

I’m not serious in any of my postings; so don’t worry...  :-P


:roflmao:
Religion is for people who believe in hell.
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Offline mr_a500

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2004, 12:42:18 AM »
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HopperJF: your super-nested quotes are making me dizzy. :crazy:

Offline billt

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2004, 01:16:46 AM »
In my personal opinion, it's hard to say. I use different OSes for different things.

Windows is for games, as is my Xbox, Playstation 2 and Nintendo64. (No, I haven't bought a cube as I haven't seen any games making me want to buy one) My XP box also serves the use of Firefox for web browsing, and recently became a Cygwin terminal to my linux boxes. Windows is good for newbs, and is what I give my mom and sister, so they know what the heck to do with the thing.

Linux is for mythtv, which I got working over the Thanksgiving holiday last week in USA. Seems pretty darn cool. It promises to have more features and mroe stability than any PVR software I tried on either Windows98SE or Win2000. I was disappointed to see Win2000 hang solid literally every other day for this task... Gentoo proved far  far far more difficult to set up for this.

Linux is also a firewall box, cvs server, verilog simulator, and will probably bea PCB layouter and stuff too if I ever get everything going on it.

Linux is pretty stable, though I haven't seen many problems with my WinXP box and I don't turn any of these machines off. I never had a PC to use DOS or Windows until after college, and got used to unix environments during my studies. I also use Solaris at work. KDE seems quite agreeable, and offers options for most things so you can change most things if you don't quite like the default way.

Amiga is for email. You know all them email worms, viruses, trojans, etc. going around? I ain't gonna get none of 'em. Period. It's also generally more agreeable to use than Windows. I'm not fond of some of Windows' design decisions, and I'm also not fond of the inability to change them. AmigaOS has been much more intuitive for my personality, and where I didn't like what it did by default I was able to find a utility to change it and make me happier. I like to tinker with things, and Amiga was great for that. With a PC, if you wanted something, you went and bought it. No need for hacking, or rewiring, or adapting, or anything, and was no fun. It's something to develop neat things for, that already exist many times over for other platforms, and thus other platforms don't seem to need crazy ideas figured out anymore. It's already been done over there.

I don't currently have a laptop, but have pretty much decided to get an iBook when I do get a laptop. For the things I imagine using one for the OS is irrelevant. Reading PDF files, typing code in a text editor, watching DVDs, etc. You jsut don't need any particular OS at all for that stuff. I don't envision a laptop as a games machine, that's what my XP box is for... Plus it's unix-alike now, so I should be able to settle in with OSX pretty easily, and I already know I don't like Windows, and I don't look forward to getting Linux running and maintaining it on another machine.

Linux and other unix things are great to use. They are not great to maintain, they can be pretty darn hard to maintain. I imagine Apple has found a way to make it less stressful than Linux has.

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Offline Damion

Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2004, 09:05:46 AM »
Here's why I prefer WinXP (over OSX)..

1. It's more stable in my experience (I had serious problems with shoddily-programmed Mac apps, mainly browsers, crashing to the point I had to constantly reboot the system)

2. The GUI is much faster and more responsive, with or without the "eye candy" (which, as others have pointed out, can be disabled in 2 seconds)

3. XP boots and installs much faster (not really a 'major' reason, but true nonetheless)

4. Windows has a much better developed application base for most things...ever tried MacUAE, or checked out the Mac demoscene?

5. "IF" things do go wrong, Windows is generally easier to troubleshoot and repair

6. I don't like being raped as a consumer -- i.e, "Mac Edition" video cards, and things like RAM always cost three times as much, just to run what to me feels like a bloated home-brew Debian compile - and this doesn't even include the entrance "wham"...a $3000 system that comes with a Radeon 9600???

Now - if I were an "artsy", "I drink cappuccinos and smoke cigs" designer or something, that was more interested in how my computer blended with my drapes than actually using it...then maybe I could see it. :P

-edit- fixed double numbers :)
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2004, 10:18:40 AM »
Overall, I like the GUI of Windows better, though I wish it had a "real" shell.  Explorer isn't great, but it's usable.  The MacOS Finder is a real pain for power users.

I agree too much with -D-, so I'll just quote him.  :-)

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1. It's more stable in my experience (I had serious problems with shoddily-programmed Mac apps, mainly browsers, crashing to the point I had to constantly reboot the system)

I think a lot of modern Mac programmers are still doing things the old way.

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2. The GUI is much faster and more responsive, with or without the "eye candy" (which, as others have pointed out, can be disabled in 2 seconds)

Seeing how Apple is the self-proclaimed World Genius for GUI Design(tm), I find it very hard to stomach.  I saw a demo on a dual G5, and I thought the GUI was very slow and unresponsive.  From the Apple menu, it took three seconds to open up the window that shows information on the system, and it did absolutetly nothing to let you know it was doing anything (unlike AmigaOS, which gives you that "Attempting to..." message in the title bar.

I'd expect a dual G5 to be just a wee bit faster, even with the eye candy turned on.  :-)

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3. XP boots and installs much faster (not really a 'major' reason, but true nonetheless)

Fully loaded with Apache and MySQL among other dev tools, my system has a boot time of 45 seconds.  With everything off, it boots in 18.  I've seen Windows machines boot in 3 minutes, but those systems are either running Win98 with high-end business tools, or they have a hundred spamware background tasks.  No OS is gonna boot fast if it's loaded with junk.  My Linux box with Mandrake takes about 1:20 to boot.  At least Windows ships pretty clean, but Mandrake comes pre-installed with tons of junk!

I'd debate the install, though.  I've not seen an OSX machine go from CD to boot, but XP is simply the longest install I've ever seen.  It takes about an hour and a half, and most of the time it just sits there "registering components".

Given that it takes so long, you'd think Microsoft would give more information about what the XP install is doing.  But I suppose priting, "Proliferating our licenses and protecting our profit margin" wouldn't be very convincing.  :-)

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3. Windows has a much better developed application base for most things...ever tried MacUAE, or checked out the Mac demoscene?

Funny, given how few dev tools actually come with the system, and how painful it is to do really simple things.  Ever try to make a Windows app without a GUI builder or one of Microsoft's bloatware compilers?  A million API calls are needed to do only the basics.

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4. "IF" things do go wrong, Windows is generally easier to troubleshoot and repair

Well, that depends if you know where everything is and you have decent tools.  I'm not to familiar with OSX, but if it's anything like other UNIX systems, I expect it to be pretty messy at the filesystem level, complete with trucated "quick" filenames and just about everything dumped into "etc".  I really, really hate the Linux file tree.

Then again, Microsoft is moving everything from the Windows folder into bizarre hidden locations in Documents and Settings.  Finding a config file or a cache isn't as easy as it used to be.

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5. I don't like being raped as a consumer -- i.e, "Mac Edition" video cards, and things like RAM always cost three times as much, just to run what to me feels like a bloated home-brew Debian compile - and this doesn't even include the entrance "wham"...a $3000 system that comes with a Radeon 9600???

Exactly.  Plus, you can't swap motherboards.  Gotta buy a whole new machine next time.  Even crappy, non-ATX PC clones can be rebuilt somewhat.

Bulk warehouses rarely even stock Mac hardware thanks to Apple's vertical monopolization of their market.  I heard drivers are a big culprit, but I find that hard to believe given that OSX is so close to UNIX architectually, and Linux drivers are aplenety.  It can't cost THAT much to make Mac-only drivers.

I remember trying to find an ATA-100 controller for our old 200Mhz Power Mac, and at the time the cheapest I could find was about $100.  The PC versions were $26 for a decent one, and the hardware is identical.  I just looked on NewEgg, and the Sonnet PCI ATA controller is $77 and it's based on a Promise chip.  A genuine Promise FastTrack TX2 controller is $24.  Old Macs are not a pretty sight.
 

Offline minator

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2004, 10:56:30 AM »
Windows has got a lot better but you still hear horror stories.  You can get a good stable and even secure system but it strikes me you really have to know what your doing in order to do that.

To get a good stable and secure Mac with OS X you just switch it on.

I've been using OS X for a couple of years now and I've never had any serious problems with it.  I've had it crash a few times but these are few and far between.  Safari used to be quite flakey but it's a lot better now.

It's also improving, 10.3 is considerably faster than 10.2 and the minor updates often speed things along further.  It was slow in the past but I've no complaints about it speed wise now - and that's on a G4.

There's a ton of software out there for it, you do have to pay for a lot of it but it generally works well and is good value.

There no stupid driver problems, I plugged in my camera iPhoto fired up and got the pictures.  On windows I had to install the software and drivers first and it managed to hose my scanner in the process...

I'm like quite a few geeks who like computers but also like usability.  I know of quite a few people who also have Macs these days.  The desktop s by far the best I've ever used but if I'm so inclined (I'm not) I can also install KDE or Gnome.  Being BSD based there's also a ton of *nix software avilable so if you like getting under the hood you can do that - but the thing is you don't actually have to if you don't want.

If you have a task to do and just want to get on with it they're great.  There's a good level of integration and Apple seem to fix things that need it.  It's not perfect but the things which are annoying are being removed.

Yes it cost more but as far as I'm concerned it's worth every penny.  I doubt I'll ever by a PC again unless I absolutely have to.

--

BTW if you are missing a DOpus 4 style manager put 2 finder windows side by side.  Works beautifully for me.
 

Offline HopperJFTopic starter

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2004, 11:05:03 AM »
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-D- wrote:
Here's why I prefer WinXP (over OSX)..

1. It's more stable in my experience (I had serious problems with shoddily-programmed Mac apps, mainly browsers, crashing to the point I had to constantly reboot the system)


Turn that around to Windows and I know exactly how you feel! To be honest I dislike the idea of rebooting the OS every time you change a frigging simple setting.. which is why OSX hardly ever needs to be rebooted :-)

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2. The GUI is much faster and more responsive, with or without the "eye candy" (which, as others have pointed out, can be disabled in 2 seconds)


That is a fair point.

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3. XP boots and installs much faster (not really a 'major' reason, but true nonetheless)


I installed MacOS 10.2 Jaguar in about 10 minutes. Beat that ;-)

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3. Windows has a much better developed application base for most things...ever tried MacUAE, or checked out the Mac demoscene?


That is because it has the larger user base.. you can't blame the OS for that.

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4. "IF" things do go wrong, Windows is generally easier to troubleshoot and repair


Mac is equally easy, and has a fantastic community too :-)

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5. I don't like being raped as a consumer -- i.e, "Mac Edition" video cards, and things like RAM always cost three times as much, just to run what to me feels like a bloated home-brew Debian compile - and this doesn't even include the entrance "wham"...a $3000 system that comes with a Radeon 9600???


Off topic - we are discussing the OS not the hardware.

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Now - if I were an "artsy", "I drink cappuccinos and smoke cigs" designer or something, that was more interested in how my computer blended with my drapes than actually using it...then maybe I could see it. :P


Okay  :-D
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2004, 11:37:10 AM »
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Turn that around to Windows and I know exactly how you feel! To be honest I dislike the idea of rebooting the OS every time you change a frigging simple setting.. which is why OSX hardly ever needs to be rebooted :-)


Be careful when comparing MacOS and Windows. In the above statement it looks like you've tried to compare MacOS X with Windows98... now it would be equally unfair to compare MacOS 9 with WindowsXP :-)

Offline bloodline

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2004, 12:34:58 PM »
I would like to add, One thing I hate, detest, wouldn't even shake a sock at about windows is the "Registry"... I just don't get the point!

Offline Star69

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2004, 12:34:19 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
I would like to add, One thing I hate, detest, wouldn't even shake a sock at about windows is the "Registry"... I just don't get the point!


the bane of windows.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Windows Or OSX?
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2004, 01:24:02 PM »
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Star69 wrote:
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bloodline wrote:
I would like to add, One thing I hate, detest, wouldn't even shake a sock at about windows is the "Registry"... I just don't get the point!


the bane of windows.


Exactly, I will defend Windows (the NT derivatives at least) as it has a hard job to do and it does it well... but why on earth they couldn't have come up with something better than "The Registry" I'll never know.