Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Martian life found...(?)  (Read 1271 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline blobranaTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 4743
    • Show only replies by blobrana
    • http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/blobrana/home.html
Martian life found...(?)
« on: March 30, 2004, 10:57:21 AM »
Hum, i may as well start a new thread...
This statment will be released soon...

DETECTION OF METHANE IN THE MARTIAN ATMOSPHERE: EVIDENCE FOR LIFE

"we observed a spectrum of Mars at the P-branch of the strongest CH4 band at 3.3 µm with resolving power of 220,000. Summing up the spectral intervals at the expected
positions of 18 strongest Doppler-shifted martian lines, we detected the absorption by martian methane at a 3.9 sigma level. The observed CH4 mixing ratio is 11 ± 4 ppb.
Total photochemical loss of CH4 in the martian atmosphere is equal to 1.8×105 cm−2 s−1, and the CH4 lifetime is 440 years. Heterogeneous loss of atmospheric methane is probably negligible, while the sink of CH4 during its diffusion through the regolith may be significant. There are no processes of CH4 formation in the atmosphere, so the
photochemical loss must therefore be balanced by abiogenic and biogenic sources.
The mantle outgassing of CH4 is 4000 cm−2 s−1 on the Earth and smaller by an order of magnitude on Mars. The calculated production of CH4 by cometary impacts is 2.3
per cent of the methane loss. Methane cannot originate from an extinct biosphere, as in the case of “natural gas” on Earth, given the exceedingly low limits on organic
matter set by the Viking landers and the dry recent history which has been extremely hostile to the macroscopic life needed to generate the gas. Therefore, methanogenesis
by living subterranean organisms is the most likely explanation for this discovery. Our estimates of the biomass and its production using the measured CH4 abundance show that the martian biota may be extremely scarce and Mars may be generally sterile except for some oases."



[V. A. Krasnopolsky (1), J. P. Maillard (2), T. C. Owen (3)
(1) Catholic University of America, Department of Physics, Washington, DC USA
(2) Institute d’Astrophysique de Paris, CNRS, 75014 Paris, France
(3) Institute for Astronomy, University of Hawaii
Using the Fourier Transform Spectrometer at the Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope,]


Wow...

Offline Quixote

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 2059
    • Show only replies by Quixote
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2004, 01:10:36 PM »
;-) Fascinating.  Suddenly the idea of a fossil crinoid on the  Martian surface isn't as far fetched as it recently seemed.

I wonder what NASA will announce next.
 

Offline KennyR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 8081
    • Show only replies by KennyR
    • http://wrongpla.net
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2004, 01:31:19 PM »
Well, sorry to switch into cynic mode here, but things like this appear whenever public interest (and therefore public funding) start to wane.

There are three possibilities:

1) There is Martian life (or possibly Terrestrial life that has multiplied from ealier probes).

2) They made a mistake about detecting the methane.

3) The methane comes from volcanism and they were wrong about Mars being volcanically dead.

Going from what we already know about Mars, 2 would be the most likely so far. Trace spectroscopy as such distances isn't very reliable. Unfortunately, Beagle-2, which had a methane detector, crashed and burned so there can't be a more reliable test.

But I'm sure now they have a good public reason to send another probe to Mars ostensibly to look for life when really its just another scientific mission boring to the layman for necessary for the advancement of science. The prospect of Martian life is the ultimate carrot for pulling along that unwilling donkey, the public, who would usually rather spend all their money on killing machines so they can wave a piece of coloured cloth around and feel proud.
 

Offline Cyberus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2003
  • Posts: 5696
    • Show only replies by Cyberus
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2004, 01:40:42 PM »
So essentially, UV light breaks down the methane very quickly, so discovery of even a small amount would indicate that it is being produced at quite a rate, and as no nonbiological source could produce CH4 at such a rate, it must be produced by organisms?
Hmm, do you have a nice spectral sample from Mars that we could look at? What proportion of the planet is reckoned to be C?
I like Amigas
 

Offline Cyberus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2003
  • Posts: 5696
    • Show only replies by Cyberus
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2004, 01:45:17 PM »
@ Kenny

So if we knew the levels of SO2 in the atmosphere we should be able to better postulate the presence of volcanic activity.
Surely there are orbiting spectrometers that would be able to do this, rather than needing to send something to the surface?

[I'm very rusty on all this, despite the fact that I tested an x-ray spectrometer for the ESA's BepiColombo Mercury mission for my Masters!]
I like Amigas
 

Offline blobranaTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 4743
    • Show only replies by blobrana
    • http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/blobrana/home.html
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2004, 02:11:30 PM »
Well basically there are three different sources confirming, (not officially yet - for April the first?), the presence of methane.

The Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope team says its life , by discounting volcanism (too much methane) , external sources (comet impacts), and fossilised `stuff` (like coal)...

 

Anyway, more here...Really!

But keep it quiet as they wouldn`t us to steal the limelight...Ssshh!...(i`ve been sitting on the info for a few days now...ouch)


[what took them so long?]

Offline KennyR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 8081
    • Show only replies by KennyR
    • http://wrongpla.net
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2004, 08:43:11 PM »
Quote
Cyberus wrote:
So if we knew the levels of SO2 in the atmosphere we should be able to better postulate the presence of volcanic activity.
Surely there are orbiting spectrometers that would be able to do this, rather than needing to send something to the surface?


If I properly remember my spectroscopy training, sulphur oxides are very hard to identify because of their equilibrium mixtures, and their various ionic states. Or something. Getting rusty here...
 

Offline Karlos

  • Sockologist
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 16866
  • Country: gb
  • Thanked: 4 times
    • Show only replies by Karlos
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2004, 08:58:42 PM »
I would have assumed any form of sulphur in the atmosphere (be it SOx / H2S etc) would be evidence for ongoing vulcanism. I can't imagine either would survive long with all that UV / ionizing radiation.
int p; // A
 

Offline KennyR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 8081
    • Show only replies by KennyR
    • http://wrongpla.net
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2004, 09:11:24 PM »
And anyway, why are the methane traces just being detected now? These telescopes and their spectroscopic equipment have existed for decades. Why now? NASA calling in a few favours or something?
 

Offline blobranaTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 4743
    • Show only replies by blobrana
    • http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/blobrana/home.html
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2004, 08:14:22 PM »
Hum.
The methane traces were found last year by the hawaii team, but only just confirmed by ESA marSEXpress...

An interesting thing is that THEY are looking at the old 1976 viking data...looking for a `slightly-off` `daily` pattern in the LR soup experiment...(the one where they added water and carbon etc to some martian soil),
No-one really has looked at the data that way but they seem to have noticed a cyclic pattern that doesn`t match the martian night/day pattern (eg our biological clocks are slightly out from the earth`s night/day pattern)...

As for the politics of when or why Nasa release data, i have no idea. And no doubt, nasa don`t either...



[perhaps they`re being controlled by external forces that we are not aware of...?]

Offline Cyberus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2003
  • Posts: 5696
    • Show only replies by Cyberus
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2004, 06:12:36 PM »
Perhaps David Icke and all the other ruling lizards are trying to found an amphibian colony on Mars?
I like Amigas
 

Offline blobranaTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 4743
    • Show only replies by blobrana
    • http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/blobrana/home.html
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2004, 03:13:16 PM »
Hum,

As a follow up on a strange thread-like `thing` they found (er, in another thread), it seems as if it wasn`t cat hair at all...

But a thread off the air-bags...

This conclusion reached by NASA  was based on the location and `replicated` tests on Earth; they excluded the possibility that it may have been a life-form (hum, very narrow)


Oh well...



Offline KennyR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 8081
    • Show only replies by KennyR
    • http://wrongpla.net
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2004, 06:27:57 PM »
Quote
Blobrana wrote:
This conclusion reached by NASA was based on the location and `replicated` tests on Earth; they excluded the possibility that it may have been a life-form (hum, very narrow)


It's narrow minded to believe that hair-creatures from Mars don't exist and that we're going to be invaded by toupee-ships and our cities blasted with hairballs? How would we fight back, Head and Shoulders? :-)
 

Offline blobranaTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 4743
    • Show only replies by blobrana
    • http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/blobrana/home.html
Re: Martian life found...(?)
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2004, 06:59:55 PM »


Hum,
that reminds me of that joke about the jaws film and the girl in the opening scene swimming in the water...


[`head and shoulders` found on beach...]

i wounder if nasa realized the amount of `pollution` that would be created with the landers?

The word on the street is that the rovers weren`t even sterile...