Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: A car running on compressed air  (Read 2517 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show only replies by KThunder
Re: A car running on compressed air
« Reply #14 from previous page: May 13, 2007, 11:08:04 PM »
Quote

Karlos wrote:


You obviously haven't seen the Tesla Roadster ;-)

That thing delivers more torque at 8000 rpm than most petrol engines do immediately after starting...

0-60 in about 4-5 seconds acceleration enough for you?


i obviously have seen the tesla
it also has a lithium battery (very expensive)
its also a two seater right?

my comment wasnt that electric motors arent powerfull but that usually to give them decent range the pack has to be so big they cant accelerate very quickly. simple fact of physics electric cars wont acclerate or handle well when the battery weighs almost as much as the rest of the car

btw they dont state it on the site but the 200 mile range is probably at 40 to 45 mph
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline Agafaster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 1175
    • Show only replies by Agafaster
Re: A car running on compressed air
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2007, 10:22:18 AM »
Quote

Karlos wrote:
Compressed air isn't that lightweight, especially when you are talking about 300 bar. That's 300x denser than usual (roughly 315 kg/m^3 at 20 Celcius), even before you get to the weight of the material needed to contian it. However, it said they used a form of carbon fibre for that.

-edit-

It says on the site (under the FAQ) that the car holds 90 m^3 (at 300bar), so that's ~92kg just for the compressed air itself. I think standard batteries are a good bit lighter.

On the plus side, it get's lighter as you expend it :-D


absolutely, mate.
the big question is not how much energy, but the energy per kilogram or energy per litre. in terms of the fuel only, and not the storage, hydrogen gas is something like 135MJ/kg with the petrochemical fuels are around 45-50 MJ/kg. however, Hydrogen suffers horribly from lack of volumetric density - even when compressed. it also suffers from leakage due to the tiny molecule (smallest one possible!)
\\"New Bruce here will be teaching Machiavelli, Bentham, Locke, Hobbes, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Lindwall, Miller, Hassett and Benaud.\\"
\\"Those are all cricketers, Bruce !\\"
A1XE G3/800MHz Radeon 7000 512MB
A1200 030/25MHz 8MB
 

Offline PMC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2003
  • Posts: 2616
    • Show only replies by PMC
    • http://www.b3ta.com
Re: A car running on compressed air
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2007, 01:16:07 PM »
Which leads us back to one other issue that we seem to have overlooked.  

Cars are getting heavier all the time.  Thanks to extra emissions control equipment, rigourous safety standards and the escalating list of optional extras, cars are much heavier today than they were 20 years ago - in some cases by as much as 75%.

A Golf GTI today might have double the power of it's original ancestor, but it's nearly double the weight.  That the extra energy needed to propel the extra mass is not unduly at the expense of fuel economy speaks volumes about modern engine design.

In addition to new hybrid technologies and exotic fuels, we also need to pay attention to how we manufacture our cars. Bucking the trend, a Jaguar XJ saloon is actually lighter than it's predecessor by virtue of switching to aluminium instead of steel for the bodyshell.

There are inherent problems with aluminium; it's much harder to work with than steel, is softer, requires more energy to produce and is as a result costlier, but is a step in the right direction.  Mass produced. composite bodied cars are also some way off, although some companies do use plastic (non load bearing) panels to reduce weight.
Cecilia for President
 

Offline Karlos

  • Sockologist
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 16866
  • Country: gb
  • Thanked: 4 times
    • Show only replies by Karlos
Re: A car running on compressed air
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2007, 09:47:15 PM »
Quote

KThunder wrote:
Quote

Karlos wrote:


You obviously haven't seen the Tesla Roadster ;-)

That thing delivers more torque at 8000 rpm than most petrol engines do immediately after starting...

0-60 in about 4-5 seconds acceleration enough for you?


i obviously have seen the tesla
it also has a lithium battery (very expensive)
its also a two seater right?


Indeed it is. And so obviously styled by lotus ;-)

Quote
btw they dont state it on the site but the 200 mile range is probably at 40 to 45 mph


They quote 200 miles between charges on a standard driving cycle (whatever that actually is). I strongly doubt it manages anything that if you are constantly testing out the torque...

You can say what you like about electic cars, but I'd love to test drive that model :-D
int p; // A
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show only replies by KThunder
Re: A car running on compressed air
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2007, 10:11:11 PM »
i want an electric car too, it would need a range of about 50 at ~60mph
a two seater would be fine but it couldnt cost too much.

pulling alot of power quickly (to produce high torque) can kill batteries too. do it too often and the high recharge number cound they list will fall alot.
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline motorollin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2005
  • Posts: 8669
    • Show only replies by motorollin
Re: A car running on compressed air
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2007, 08:07:54 AM »
A common argument against electric/hydro cars is that the battery has to be manufactured and charged, or the hydrogen produced, which itself uses electricity. However, the factory which manufactures the battery or produces the hydrogen can be powered by nuclear energy which is (apparrently) cleaner than fuel-burning power stations - assuming that the waste product is disposed of safely. Also, mains power to private properties can be produced using the same means, which means batteries can be charged more cleanly. Compare this with fuel-burning cars, which are impossible to fuel cleanly since they use a combustion engine.

--
moto
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline Turambar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 425
    • Show only replies by Turambar
    • http://gentleman-bastards.com/
Re: A car running on compressed air
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2007, 09:37:01 PM »
Flintstones style cars are the way forward.
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show only replies by KThunder
Re: A car running on compressed air
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2007, 03:09:11 PM »
Quote

motorollin wrote:
A common argument against electric/hydro cars is that the battery has to be manufactured and charged, or the hydrogen produced, which itself uses electricity. However, the factory which manufactures the battery or produces the hydrogen can be powered by nuclear energy which is (apparrently) cleaner than fuel-burning power stations - assuming that the waste product is disposed of safely. Also, mains power to private properties can be produced using the same means, which means batteries can be charged more cleanly. Compare this with fuel-burning cars, which are impossible to fuel cleanly since they use a combustion engine.

--
moto


a good chunk of the electricity in ny state now comes from hydroelectric and wind power i think that is the way forward for that.
cars and their engines are also rarely well maintained and operated. that effects gas millage and emissions.
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline Karlos

  • Sockologist
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 16866
  • Country: gb
  • Thanked: 4 times
    • Show only replies by Karlos
Re: A car running on compressed air
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2007, 08:48:24 PM »
Quote

Turambar wrote:
Flintstones style cars are the way forward.


Especially given their total inability to steer normally...
int p; // A
 

Offline meega

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 952
    • Show only replies by meega
Re: A car running on compressed air
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2007, 11:37:03 AM »
I just misread the thread title and thought it was about advanced feline transportation systems, possibly hovercraft... Glad to see I'm not too far off-topic here.
:)
 

Offline Dandy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2004
  • Posts: 1221
    • Show only replies by Dandy
    • http://www.wiehltalbahn.de/en/
Re: A car running on compressed air
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2007, 10:52:37 AM »
Quote


...
a couple years ago i hooked an air hose from my garage air compressor to a weed wacker engine (small 2 stroke) and gave it a spin and it took off and that was at 140 psi (10bar?)

i wonder how my motorcycle would run with a scuba tank supplying air



A similar concept was invented about 200 years ago.
Just that it didn't use compressed air, but compressed, gaseous water (AKA steam):
the steam engine

Steam locomotives normally operate with a boiler pressure of 10-13 bar.
All the best,

Dandy

Website maintained by me

If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein)
 

Offline InTheSand

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2004
  • Posts: 1766
    • Show only replies by InTheSand
    • http://www.ali.geek.nz
Re: A car running on compressed air
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2007, 12:36:13 AM »
Quote

meega wrote:
I just misread the thread title and thought it was about advanced feline transportation systems, possibly hovercraft... Glad to see I'm not too far off-topic here.


Heh! How bizarre... I did the same thing and had to do a double-take on it, wondering how the compressed air was fed into the cat! Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeooooooooooooooooooowwwwww! Boom!  :crazy:

 - Ali