To Vampire or not

[Iggy]

I'm actually an 68K fanatic, which by default makes me a fan of the Amiga, but "beloved" might be an exaggeration for my attachment to the design.

So your information, at least to me, has been rather encouraging.

Plus, the Apollo work can definitely be used in other projects, so its of added interest to me.

Thanks for clearing things up.

[kolla]

The information you quoted is inaccurate to say the least. You know that as well as anybody else.

Maybe you should better inform Djole then, and other people out there who still are under the assumption that a 060 compatible FPU is work in progress?

It means 060 compatible FPU is  not working and its work in progress, just like its stated....

No, the FAQ entry on the site, is as Grond now has confirmed, "inaccurate to say the least".

This is exactly the kind of nonsense that all the hype and misinformation leads to. The people running the show, "the apollo team", "the vampire team", and whoever, really need to get the act together and be a lot more accurate about what they are selling.

I wouldn't believe you that you didn't know that there was no FPU when you ordered your Vampire cards and that this misinformation tricked you into buying two of them.

No, I was not tricked, I clearly ordered the two Vampires for the sole reason to nag and whine, right? I mean, anyone without a card is immidiately not allowed to word any criticism, so why not pay for the right to do so.

When I ordered...
* the FPU was said to be "different", but this could easily be fixed with a small update to SetPatch and some 68080.library type of solution
* the FPU was supposedly "very soon", not that I had much faith in it
* the FPU was not cancelled, as it apparently is now

[OlafS3]

Maybe you should better inform Djole then, and other people out there who still are under the assumption that a 060 compatible FPU is work in progress?



No, the FAQ entry on the site, is as Grond now has confirmed, "inaccurate to say the least".

This is exactly the kind of nonsense that all the hype and misinformation leads to. The people running the show, "the apollo team", "the vampire team", and whoever, really need to get the act together and be a lot more accurate about what they are selling.



No, I was not tricked, I clearly ordered the two Vampires for the sole reason to nag and whine, right? I mean, anyone without a card is immidiately not allowed to word any criticism, so why not pay for the right to do so.

When I ordered...
* the FPU was said to be "different", but this could easily be fixed with a small update to SetPatch and some 68080.library type of solution
* the FPU was supposedly "very soon", not that I had much faith in it
* the FPU was not cancelled, as it apparently is now

Gunnar always said people should buy it for what it offers now not what potentially it will offer in future. If you bought it primarly to run software on it that needs FPU or MMU and are not able or willing to wait (at least for FPU) then do us a favor and sell the boards again. I am pretty sure that people will give you the full price you paid and then there are 2 new happy users and one unhappy less. Good idea?

[Gulliver]

You dont belong to our sect!
You must leave!

[kolla]

What do you think we team-members-without-quotation-marks do?

Try hard to recreate the problems and bugs that people report, dissemble, narrow things down, create your own code to trigger the bugs, and then pass it on to Gunnar so he can fix the core. I guess. Do you expect the same of all the people who buy the boards as well?

I'm pretty sure with your interest in unixoid operating systems you are familiar with other projects and how "bug reports" like "it crashes" and "when will feature X be implemented?" are treated there.

Yes, it's a wonderful world of open sources, debug binaries, great compilers, resource trackers, tracers, debuggers, colourful output etc.

[kolla]

Gunnar always said people should buy it for what it offers now not what potentially it will offer in future.

Where do customers find this information?

The number one person to offer fantasies about what the core will offer in the future has been Gunnar himself.

If you bought it primarly to run software on it that needs FPU or MMU and are not able or willing to wait (at least for FPU) then do us a favor and sell the boards again.

I bought them to experience first hand, and I am quite more interested in how SAGA will be than in the CPU.

The problems I have with the FPU are:
* it was hyped
* it was postponed
* it was claimed useless, a claim about "99% of the software does not need it"
* anyone protesting the above claim are named clueless idiots by the man
* it is still on the very site that sells cards and distributes the cores that it is a 060 FPU that is WIP, despite Gunnar being very clear that it is not a 060 FPU
* it was dropped as Gunnar now see greener fields in the future, so back to the first point on this list... hyping. Rinse and repeat?

The problem with the MMU is not really mine, it is just something that renders the core useless for so many potential customers. I also resent the idea that MMU is useless for Amiga users, but of course saying so renders me an idiot again. Anyways, according to Gunnar, the Apollo Core does have an MMU, it just isn't exposed.

[Kremlar]

Where do customers find this information?.

Really?  Isn't that common sense?  Why buy a product for what you think it might be in the future?  Buy something for what it is at time of purchase, otherwise wait.

[Niding]

Gunnar has made several requests for people to assist with the FPU on Apollo forum, but those calls has always been left unanswered.

That doesnt invalidate your desire to have FPU, but no response doesnt encourage the them to change their priorities. Long to-do list and limited resorces.

[johnklos]

Another tidbit with actual FPU benchmarks:
https://blog.alb42.de/?s=fpu

[Iggy]

Really?  Isn't that common sense?  Why buy a product for what you think it might be in the future?  Buy something for what it is at time of purchase, otherwise wait.

Ridiculous excuse. We are constantly told what it will do in the future, but "don't buy it for that".

Gunnar has made several requests for people to assist with the FPU on Apollo forum, but those calls has always been left unanswered.

That doesnt invalidate your desire to have FPU, but no response doesnt encourage the them to change their priorities. Long to-do list and limited resorces.

Gunnar has claimed it is for the most part done.
Again, thing claim is an excuse.

Another tidbit with actual FPU benchmarks:
https://blog.alb42.de/?s=fpu

+1

 As in, YES, it DOES make a big difference, guys.

[Niding]

Ridiculous excuse. We are constantly told what it will do in the future, but "don't buy it for that".



Gunnar has claimed it is for the most part done.
Again, thing claim is an excuse.



+1

 As in, YES, it DOES make a big difference, guys.

I wouldnt call it an excuse when Gunnar doesnt prioritise it, and ask people to basically convince him otherwise thru code and not just generic demands.
THAT said, the benchmarks and commentary made in that blog is very intresting and convincing.

[Kremlar]

Ridiculous excuse. We are constantly told what it will do in the future, but "don't buy it for that".  

Absolutely not ridiculous, and not an excuse.  It's a fact.  Everyone wants to know where the product is heading, what future plans are, but they are clearly not set in stone.  If you buy a product for features that are hoped/planned for the future you are clearly making a mistake.  Buy for what a product is today, otherwise wait until the feature you are looking for is implemented.  Plans change.

It's pretty sad how many drama queens we have in this community.  The Vampire is an awesome product, the best product in many years for the Amiga, yet some people still have nothing better to do than bitch and complain about it.

Then don't buy it!  Or, if you have because you just couldn't wait and are now "unhappy", sell it to someone who wants one!

They can't make these things fast enough and there are plenty of people out there willing to buy them.

[Iggy]

Absolutely not ridiculous, and not an excuse....

Yes it is BOTH, and as a "drama queen", I haven't bought one yet.
Further, while you and Niding my both be unapologetic fanboys, its pretty easy to poke holes in your statements.

Gunnar didn't need other programmers or code to test an fpu, there are plenty of available packages that use floating point routines already in existence.

If he's having trouble getting it done, just admit it.
Excuses about priorities or statements about the current purchasers are merely obfuscation.

And, as Niding admitted, its obviously a useful feature, as even with its higher clock speed, a Vampire takes MUCH longer to perform fpu commands via emulation.

[Kremlar]

If he's having trouble getting it done, just admit it.
Excuses about priorities or statements about the current purchasers are merely obfuscation.

Priority is the reason.  With tons of users clamoring for AGA support and native display over HDMI, plus the drive to release a standalone product, why would he focus on an FPU which only a handful of users need?  Especially when they are selling them as fast as they can make them, why would you expect them to deviate from their current path?

They are focusing on what they, and most users, consider most important first.

[Jose]

Lots of cool stuff uses FPU, i.e. music players, old school 3d rendering packages and games just to name a few.

[Iggy]

Priority is the reason.  With tons of users clamoring for AGA support and native display over HDMI, plus the drive to release a standalone product, why would he focus on an FPU which only a handful of users need?  Especially when they are selling them as fast as they can make them, why would you expect them to deviate from their current path?

They are focusing on what they, and most users, consider most important first.

Handful of users? FPU capability would have utility for ALL users.
Although I will admit AGA has appeal, certainly more than new multimedia instructions or 16 bit sound (both features that aren't supported by ANY existing software unless you consider NG software).