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AuthorTopic: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence  (Read 10351 times)

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Offline TheBilgeRat

Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2010, 06:51:17 AM »
Crysis was boring anyway, except for mowing down palm trees...and FTR, there wasn't much of ANYTHING hardware wise that would run Crysis nicely when it first came out :)

Oh, and the main reason for me posting was to ask what a "BAF" was :lol:
 

Offline stefcep2

Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2010, 07:25:04 AM »
Quote from: the_leander;560508
Which part of Open Source re-implementation are you having trouble with? I should also point out that there was quite a bit of AROS code in AOS 3.5 and 3.9, so even that statement isn't true.


The bit where NONE of AmigaOS is re-iplemented. Its an x86 OS that aims to run in the spirit of Amiga, whatever that is.

Which part of AROS was in 3.5 and 3.9?  how sign ificant is that to the look and feel of AmigOS?

Quote


Google "o1i"

AROS is AmigaOS API compatible and will run AmigaOS software if recompiled for it. o1i will (eventually) enable it to run AOS apps natively ala Amithlon/MorphOS. In the mean time I believe there is a port of UAE available for AROS.
"natively"=68ki run under a 68 k processor.  Anything else is a form of emulation, via translation/transcription, and there isn't a single emulator anywhere for any platform that I've used that doesn't lose "something in the translation".
Quote

See, this is what I love about you BAFs - you assume that the rest of the world must have some comparable fetish for their given point of view.


I'll state again what I've said to several of your mouthbreathing comrades:

I do not give a toss what platform I am using so long as it provides me with the tools I want and need to do the things I do day to day. The underlying hardware platform is equally unimportant so long as it provides the appropriate performance for the tasks at hand and does so at a reasonable cost.  

Read and understand.


No you do.  Most of the above is besides the point.  Here I'll dumb it down for you.  I don't particularly care for your opinion, but I'll respect that you are entitled to express that opinion free from any fear of ridicule, abuse or belittlement. Unlike most of your posts which come across as condescending smart-arse hollier than hour drivel. If you're happy with a pragmatic near enough approach, fine.  Not everyone is.

Quote

Or you could oh, I don't know, back up your claims with facts. That tends to go down nicely around here. Watch anyone make a blatantly incorrect statement and see them get corrected, then shot down if they ignore the correction and carry on - regardless of how popular you are(n't).


Correction of what?  For having an opinion?  How can you correct an opinion. FFS?

Quote

What, you mean like you do regularly when faced with anyone who doesn't slavishly follow your views on teh oNe TrU CoMputAr?


As opposed to slavishly following yours that near is good enough if its cheap enough and accessible enough?  For some, there is nothing like the real thing.  I respect that.  For others who are more pragmatic, AROS and some form emulation/compatibility layer is what they are after, well and good.  There's a big difference in the way they OP responded to the criticims with articulate, respectful comments and they way you and the other dude did with references about pissing in cornflakes did.

Quote


Where he went wrong was in belittling (intentionally or not) the efforts of people who have poured tens of thousands of man hours into this project (which itself had parts of it put in both AOS and MorphOS) without any provocation or reason - no other reason.


whatever.

AROS is  an exceptional effort to create an x86 OS that aims to provide some of the feel of Amiga and the approximate running of Amiga 3.x software.  An amiga it aint.
 

Offline the_leander

Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2010, 07:41:09 AM »
Quote from: stefcep2;560519
The bit where NONE of AmigaOS is re-iplemented.


Right, so there is absolutely no API compatibility at all with AmigaOS at all then... If you say so. You might want to explain that to the AROS folks, because they seem to be under the mistaken impression that that's what they've been working toward pretty much since the death of C=.

Thank goodness you and your single semester of programming gave you the expertise to spot this gaping flaw in their work!

Quote from: stefcep2;560519

Its an x86 OS that aims to run in the spirit of Amiga, whatever that is.


It's an API compatible (and soon a binary compatible) re-implimentation of AmigaOS. Just as much as the Natami/Minimig are re-implimentations of the hardware.


Quote from: stefcep2;560519
"natively"=68ki run under a 68 k processor.  Anything else is a form of emulation,


Oh I do believe he's getting the hint!

Quote from: stefcep2;560519

No you do.


Prove it.

Quote from: stefcep2;560519
Most of the above is besides the point.  Here I'll dumb it down for you.  I don't particularly care for your opinion, but I'll respect that you are entitled to express that opinion free from any fear of ridicule, abuse or belittlement


Lies.

Quote from: stefcep2;560519
Unlike most of your posts which come across as condescending smart-arse hollier than thou drivel.


Projection much?

Quote from: stefcep2;560519

As opposed to slavishly following yours


Nope. If you want to follow the one true path that's fantastic. But slamming the hard work of others is not on.

Quote from: stefcep2;560519

There's a big difference in the way they OP responded to the criticims with articulate, respectful comments and they way you and the other dude did with references about pissing in cornflakes did.


There is indeed, ours were funnier.

Quote from: stefcep2;560519

An amiga it aint.


In your opinion.
Blessed Be,
Alan Fisher - the_leander

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Offline Piru

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Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2010, 07:45:17 AM »
Quote from: the_leander;560288
Does AROS have an integrated UAE type emulation layer like MorphOS or Amithlon?
No.

In fact the two similar options you present are different already:

MorphOS - no chipset emulation, custom powerpc JIT, 68k apps run inside the powerpc OS, taking advantage of the native OS routines, 68k apps are just like any other applications. 68k apps have access to the native system resources such as 3d acceleration. MorphOS 68k emulation has nothing to do with UAE.

Amithlon - stripped down UAE sitting on top of linux kernel, has a fast JIT engine AFAIK only partially based on the UAE one, limited HW emulation, there is a way to call native x86 routines. 68k apps have access to the bare HW here as well.

As far as I know AROS is opting for UAE integration: Running a stock UAE, sharing clipboard, filesystems etc. Much like what you have with VMWare where you can access the host system resources (note: vmware is used here only as a reference to how the host environment can be accessed).

The obvious plus here is that it will run pretty much anything UAE does. Downside is that it will be a pain to integrate it anywhere near as good as MorphOS or Amithlon. For instance it will be hard to make the 68k apps not look out of place (Preferences are hard to propagate etc). The biggest problem probably is that it requires a legal copy of the AmigaOS to be able to run anything (There have been talks about using AROS 68k as a AmigaOS replacement, but as far as I can tell that plan hasn't advanced).

Speaking of which, is there "Unity" mode in the AROS UAE integration yet?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 07:47:51 AM by Piru »
 

Offline the_leander

Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2010, 07:48:47 AM »
Quote from: Piru;560524

As far as I know AROS is opting for UAE integration:


Did you check out the o1i or is that something different again?

Quote from: Piru;560524

Speaking of which, is there "Unity" mode in the AROS UAE integration yet?


?
Blessed Be,
Alan Fisher - the_leander

[SIGPIC]http://www.extropia.co.uk/theleander/[/SIGPIC]
 

Offline Karlos

Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2010, 07:50:04 AM »
Quote
The bit where NONE of AmigaOS is re-iplemented. Its an x86 OS that aims to run in the spirit of Amiga, whatever that is.


Well, that's weird, seeing as I was able to compile some of my old amigaos specific code for AROS. That doesn't require an OS "in the spirit" of Amiga, it requires an OS that provides amiga compatible APIs. Do you understand the meaning of "re-implemented" in this context?
int p; // A
 

Offline Piru

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Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2010, 08:29:12 AM »
Quote from: the_leander;560525
Did you check out the o1i or is that something different again?
Well I assume o1i's stuff is the UAE integration?

Quote
?
I'm referring to mode similar to VMWare Unity.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2010, 08:44:32 AM »
@stefcep2

Do you ignore all of Bernd's AfA news posts? Where he compiles parts of AROS to replace parts of AmigaOS on 68k hardware?

The AROS developers take great pains to ensure that when compiled for the 68k CPU AROS is binary compatible with AmigaOS... Try can only do this because AROS is an OS that reimplements all of AmigaOS's features and structures. This is exactly the same as MOS and AOS4, except they (AFAIK) only compile for the PPC, AROS an compile on multiple architectures.

@Piru AROS's UAE integration features a Unity mode (that is kind of the point), bit the idea is that we can get it much tighter as AROS and AmigaOS are so similar and we can modify both UAE and AROS to work together... End result, 68k apps running seamlessly in a x86/PPC AROS environment :)
Please spend more time on the AROS Dev list, there are people working on a complete Amiga port of AROS, I'm sure you could offer advice ;)

Offline Piru

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Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2010, 08:49:45 AM »
Quote from: bloodline;560534

AROS's UAE integration features a Unity mode (that is kind of the point)

Why there are no screenshots of it? All I've seen is the whole emulation running in a window, just like regular UAE.

Quote
Please spend more time on the AROS Dev list, there are people working on a complete Amiga port of AROS, I'm sure you could offer advice ;)

Sorry I'm busy enough already, which reminds me I should finish a report today...
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2010, 09:04:36 AM »
Quote from: Piru;560536
Why there are no screenshots of it? All I've seen is the whole emulation running in a window, just like regular UAE.


Sorry I'm busy enough already, which reminds me I should finish a report today...
If you follow O1i's blog he posts nothing but screenshots of his work on this... :)

I know you that's why I suggested you perhaps give advice rather than get stuck in ;)

Offline clusteruk

Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2010, 10:39:56 AM »
Two things:

First a video showing Janus UAE Coherance mode at the end of it old v0.6, not the latest v0.7.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTaZCNOvCnE

Oh and my new hero developing from scratch an Aros version of 68k emulation layer like in OS4 and MorphOS. Some way off but working already with the 68k clock and showing tons of promise.

http://emumiga.com/

Enjoy
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 10:43:49 AM by clusteruk »
Amiga 1000/3000, iMica Silent and NVidia Aros computer.
http://www.imica.net
Lets enjoy the Amigas future, THIS year is 25th Anniversary lets make it special.
http://www.amiga25.org
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2010, 10:58:10 AM »
Quote

Oh and my new hero developing from scratch an Aros version of 68k emulation layer like in OS4 and MorphOS. Some way off but working already with the 68k clock and showing tons of promise.

http://emumiga.com/


Well this is a turn up for the books! Looks very exciting, for those who didn't click the link, this is the same 68k type of emulation that MOS and AOS4 use :)

Offline Piru

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Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2010, 11:18:56 AM »
Quote from: bloodline;560543
Well this is a turn up for the books! Looks very exciting, for those who didn't click the link, this is the same 68k type of emulation that MOS and AOS4 use :)
Yeah this looks very promising. There's one difference to MorphOS at least: With MorphOS there's no need for virtual address space and mapping to the OS structures and calls. MorphOS is compatible enough so that only 68k emulation is needed.

This is very interesting and important project. I'd even consider this more important than Janus UAE (since there's no need to (C) Kickstart ROM or Workbench files, and the 68k applications benefiting from the native libraries and system components).
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 11:23:05 AM by Piru »
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2010, 12:11:01 PM »
Quote from: Piru;560544
Yeah this looks very promising. There's one difference to MorphOS at least: With MorphOS there's no need for virtual address space and mapping to the OS structures and calls. MorphOS is compatible enough so that only 68k emulation is needed.

This is very interesting and important project. I'd even consider this more important than Janus UAE (since there's no need to (C) Kickstart ROM or Workbench files, and the 68k applications benefiting from the native libraries and system components).
Well the big problem AROS has is in the byte order (as you are probably aware), so this is the best option :)

Offline dammy

Re: IMICA Atom becomes Aros fully native and celebrates in Silence
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2010, 12:14:13 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;560519
Which part of AROS was in 3.5 and 3.9?  how sign ificant is that to the look and feel of AmigOS?


It wasn't much, IIRC, it was the color wheel.  Now MOS used a fair amount of AROS code in it's initial release.  IIRC from the court papers, I don't think much or any kickstart or WB 3.x code made it into OS4 because it was machine 68K code.  

I will point out AROS was released on the SAM440 before OS4 was.  And I'm fairly confident you will see AROS released for EFIKA-MX based systems which I would hope by this year.  And as others in this thread have mentioned AFA code is from AROS.  So painting AROS as x86 is not completely true as there are PPC and eventually ARM port in the wild.

I do understand your concern for your favorite camp, AROS does make it harder for them to pitch very expensive hardware.  Vs buying fairly cheap hardware that does more for the bang:buck ratio with portables on the way.  Then the issue if Commodore USA ever clears up the trademark issue with the C= trademark owners, selling x86 gear running AROS with C= logo will make it known to the larger market place.  Natami ever sees the light of day and runs AROS on it, it'll be even harder to sell 1500+ Euro PPC systems.

@ Steve, gratz on this release of a silent IMACA.
Dammy

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