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AuthorTopic: Market research for new PowerPC system  (Read 13008 times)

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Offline markos

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2009, 08:21:42 PM »
Many of you seem to fail to understand what I'm asking. This is not about a new PowerPC Amiga or a new system running MorphOS. This is about a new and more modern PowerPC platform, which will *primarily* run Linux -and probably Haiku- and which IF there is enough demand, it will support your preferred OSes (AmigaOS/MorphOS). Again. I'm NOT building a new Amiga. The platform will most likely happen. If you want support for it, you might as well ask and if there are enough requests, I will try to follow that route. If only 20 of you ask now, then 99% the board will not support anything than Linux/Haiku. I hope this has been made more clear now.
 

Offline the_leander

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2009, 08:59:29 PM »
Quote from: Golem!dk;523977
Ok, icaros is still aros, or did you mean to write anubis?


Probably. Tbh I'm guilty of not really following AROS or icaros or anubis or thoros or whatever os that's come out of it...
Blessed Be,
Alan Fisher - the_leander

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Offline the_leander

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2009, 09:06:05 PM »
Quote from: markos;523980
This is about a new and more modern PowerPC platform, which will *primarily* run Linux -and probably Haiku- and which IF there is enough demand, it will support your preferred OSes (AmigaOS/MorphOS).


I get this, truly. But again I think you'd be better off building a piece of hardware for a small niche such as a games console or set top box. A ppc desktop just doesn't make much sense these days.
Blessed Be,
Alan Fisher - the_leander

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Offline markos

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2009, 09:49:05 PM »
@the_leander:

A games console is much more than just hardware, it's an complete SDK, it's lots of cash to give out to developers and publishers to develop games platform. It costs way much more than just building a board. And when there are already XBOX 360, PS3, and Wii, what chances does a small company have to compete? I haven't seen a niche games console so far.
 

Offline the_leander

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2009, 09:52:01 PM »
Quote from: markos;523991
@the_leander:

A games console is much more than just hardware, it's an complete SDK, it's lots of cash to give out to developers and publishers to develop games platform. It costs way much more than just building a board. And when there are already XBOX 360, PS3, and Wii, what chances does a small company have to compete? I haven't seen a niche games console so far.


Now you have.

All achieved with Linux no less.
Blessed Be,
Alan Fisher - the_leander

[SIGPIC]http://www.extropia.co.uk/theleander/[/SIGPIC]
 

Offline markos

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2009, 10:17:09 PM »
Nice. Interesting, thanks for the link. I think a PPC-based one would be much more expensive though and not directly competitive, but it makes room for new ideas. Thanks a lot.
 

Offline the_leander

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2009, 10:43:52 PM »
Quote from: markos;523995
Nice. Interesting, thanks for the link. I think a PPC-based one would be much more expensive though and not directly competitive, but it makes room for new ideas. Thanks a lot.


No worries. The GPx2 is a handheld so a more traditional console wouldn't as you say be directly competitive. But having seen that and other similar (but much more modest) projects aimed at allowing developers to cut their teeth on console hardware without the usual restrictions, there does appear to be an opening for such a device in the class that your hardware spec could provide.

Either way, good luck with your efforts!

(One thing though - if you do go down this road, don't do what Andre Lamothe did and offer up a given spec, build a following, then days before the release offer up a product with a fraction of what you were originally offering - it upsets the customer base and almost destroyed his project).
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Offline tone007

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Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2009, 12:18:22 PM »
Quote from: markos;523995
I think a PPC-based one would be much more expensive though and not directly competitive


This is a good quote, and applies to anything, including a workstation.

Why the heck would someone pay crazy money for a board that runs an OS (Linux, Haiku)  that'll run better (performance and support-wise) on hardware a fraction of the cost?

At least with AmigaOS and its kind the hardware choices are limited so people are more likely to consider an overpriced board, but as has been mentioned before, the market is small.

That said, I'm sure there are probably at least 500 people in the world with money they'd blow on such an item if for nothing more than to kill some time.  It might just take a couple years to find them all.
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Offline markos

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2009, 01:24:07 PM »
@tone007

Well, I think you're misunderstand the target group. I'm not after people who need the fastest gaming rig, nor professionals who need the absolute 3d power to do their renders or their DTP. I'm not after the Core 2 Duo or Core i7 CPUs, nor the Power7 market, I'm after people who like different things, the same group of geeks who prefer to get a custom DIY helicopter model kit, even though it's not top spec, instead of buying the fastest helicopter model available -which is also cheaper than the one you'll be building. Also, I'm targeting people who really want a power efficient CPU. ARM is great on the power efficiency, but just won't hold a candle to one of the CPUs I mentioned (at least not yet). Atom is more or less at the same performance ratio -I believe it should perform quite less than the MPC8610, let's not even compare it to the MPC8640D, and it's power usage has been ridiculed since it's release. ION saves the situation slightly, but that's a GPU/Chipset, and it has nothing to do with the CPU. I'm pretty sure a MPC8610+radeon mobile gpu could give as much performance with as similar power usage to the Atom+ION. Yes the price is higher, but price isn't everything.
 

Offline Hammer

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #69 on: September 26, 2009, 02:10:18 PM »
Quote from: DyLucke;523872

I don't think PPC is dead at all... IBM made a lot of money selling PPC based servers, and it still make money with that... Power 7 is around the bend, and it will catch up with Intel and AMD again. PPC's are cheaper to produce than any X86 architecture...
...

X86 has "economic of scale" and a hostile competitive environment e.g. AMD vs Intel.
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Offline Hammer

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #70 on: September 26, 2009, 02:20:52 PM »
Quote from: Chieftain;523877
Have to agree with DyLucke, the PPC is far from dead and to be honest, if anything has to be put out of its misery, it's got to be the x86 (both 32- and 64-bit). The only thing that keep it from obsolescence is the bloatware called Winblows, the x86 need to be fast in order to run Winblows at an adequate speed. I'm damn sure the PPC would be a lot faster than it is today if Microshaft had kept supporting it after WinNT 4.0.
There! Now I have whacked a hornet's nest with a stick and set the ant-hill on fire.

Replace Windows NT with MacOS 9/X. Ex-DEC engineers at AMD and Intel would still beat IBM and Motorola/Freescale. PowerPC is competing against reincarnated DEC Alpha.
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Offline persia

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #71 on: September 26, 2009, 02:59:00 PM »
Why would a geek bother with a higher priced board that limits them to poorly supported versions of a handful of OSs?  Haiku runs beautifully on intel equipment which I could source for a thousand places in Australia. Plus I have the choice of Icarios, several hundred Linux distros with the ability to run Windows programs in Wine.

I custom built computers all the time, why would I bother with a board that offers price performance ratios 5 to 10 times worse than Intel/AMD?  In the end it just choosing the parts and putting them together so why would I be more excited about something that after I build it has far fewer choices of OS?
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Offline markos

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2009, 03:36:06 PM »
@persia

Fine, no one is forcing you to buy it, do I at least have your permission of trying to make myself look ridiculous by failing to sell PowerPC boards? Btw, geeks bother all the time for old fashined, overpriced hardware, I once collected old hardware like SGI O2s, PPC macs, HP/PA workstations, etc. I actually paid MUCH more than the 500€ you find hard to justify for this board. Not referring specifically to you, you're in an Amiga forum after all, but I feel sorry for those people whose computer experience consists solely of a BIOS and a Windows screen. There are many geeks willing to try something different. Just as in the car world, there are many people willing to spend lots of money into a old Jaguar, where obviously a newer Audi would be a much better way to spend their money.
 

Offline recidivist

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2009, 05:32:01 PM »
I am beginning to wonder about those people who  feel the need to ridicule anyone who is not in lockstep with their choice of the most common  computer/car/breakfast cereal;do they feel somehow threatened?

If you  are pretty sure of  at least  getting your money back then I hope these boards get made;and  they will be collectors items for the technophiles of the world.People buy limited edition  firearms at 10 times the price of ordinary ones with no intention of ever shooting it.People buy millions of dollars of  expensive holiday dioramas ,etc.
 

Offline persia

Re: Market research for new PowerPC system
« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2009, 09:21:25 PM »
What is it that prevents OS4 from loading on any PPC board?  Intel and Apple with their tens of thousands of employees couldn't stop OS X from loading on a generic board, how come a company with a total number of employees you could count on your toes  can keep OS4 from loading on any PPC board?
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What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.