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AuthorTopic: Two new µ-A1's models on the way  (Read 5785 times)

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Offline Argo

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2004, 08:27:55 PM »
@Waccoon
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Again, I don't see the point of making the board. Seems to me Eyetech is suffering from supply before demand. Who is their customer? Do their supposed customers really want a board built like this?

From the first paragraph of Eyetech's press release...
"We used the pre-production prototypes to gain feedback from a range of such potential customers to ensure that the specification and reliability of the µ-A1 met or exceeded their needs and therefore would ensure the commercial success of the product. That process is now complete."

Who are their customers? Don't know, Don't care, None of our business. Though you might see some of them posting here and , I don't know, maybe some in Asia. Alan Redhouse has taken a few business trips to China in the last couple of years. It' all speculation of course. Who their customers are, not really important. As long as they stay in business.
 

Offline Floid

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2004, 10:53:38 PM »
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Assuming you do streaming only. When you add on mixing, 3D effects, filtering... then your CPU cycles will start to disappear real fast. Piping information is easy. I'ts procesing that's hard.
Indeed, and we were promised some sort of miracle API for that 5 years ago... but who expects it to be ready? ;-)

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That's what many people don't realize about external USB2.0 hard drives. I was going to get one myself to replace my internal backup hard drive, until I realized that many external drives can suck between 25% to 50% CPU utilization. Ouch.
This could depend on your USB host controller.  Which does mean I'll have to go back and look at what those 50% utilization reviews tested with.

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[Laptop...]

Well, given the determination and fanaticism of the Amgia community, I suppose someone will try. But, it still won't be practical.
Tough call.  If Eyetech sticks with PCI-104 for a while, it could almost make sense.  If marketed as a proverbial PAWS-104, it might even have some appeal as 'test equipment' in the broader embedded market.  But it probably still wouldn't come cheap... and to be at all applicable to the consumer 'desknote' market, you'd want to come up with some way to clip to a normal PCI slot anyway.

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Those mini-PC designs annoy me. Why make a mini tower a foot tall and put it beside the monitor when you can put it behind?
Well, it just hit me that it's a division-of-labor problem; many modern LCDs need either a weight or a complex stand, and it's better to incur the cost of shipping the brick (semi-literally) with the high-margin display than the low-margin case.

But inspired by photos claiming to be the new iMac, as well as Gateway's old attempt to compete with it... Therein lies the solution:  Make an ultralight ITX enclosure that can bolt down to the VESA mounting points on the back of the monitor.  You won't be able to fit a Prescott with heatpipes in it, of course, but an A1 or C3, active cooling (for reasons of weight), 12v supply and 2.5" drive should live...  Might want to stick with an external optical movement.

(That said, that's one of the reasons for the shoeboxes -- they're flexible enough to be used if you *do* swingarm or wall-mount the display... and they riff on the Walker, so we should feel flattered, right?)

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But there's no retaining mechanism for something that heavy,* so welcome to catch-22.)
That's the limiting factor with the "module" design. OK, you got your shiny new G4 or G5 in your AmigaOne. How do you cool the beast with something that won't crack the chip or fall off?
True, true... Except I lied.  There are still through-holes for the standard GPU cooler spring-clip mount, right?  The only problem is that nobody makes GPU coolers that tall (well, except nVidia, and those aren't passive), because they'd interfere with every other slot in the system.  Now, if you *drilled out* a nice Socket 7 sink, you might be able to clip it on there... and if sticking by aluminum, it wouldn't be heavy enough to pull out that MegArray... but you'd have to pay someone to do the drilling, and that'd add enough in labor to beat the claimed $10 markup on $7 coolers.

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It doesn't help that the PPC is used in embedded applications where custom heatsinks are used. IBM isn't capping their cores except on the low-end G3, which doesn't really need a heatsink, anyway.
How exactly do you cap a microBGA or whatever these things are?  A better question would be why, if so easy to design around, they seem to need more discrete components around the chip than even an Intel-based design?
 

Offline Hammer

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2004, 10:56:41 PM »
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I've been saying that for a while, too. However, ITX is still the favored form factor for this,

Note that SFF is the alternative.

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because most people looking for 'cute' PC-in-monitor designs don't give a crap about expansion.

Define most.
AmigaForever 2016 with AmigaOS 4.1 FE, AMIDuOS\'s Android 5.01, MS Windows 10 Pro X64
Samsung ATIV Book 8 880Z5E laptop with touch screen.
CPU: Intel Core i7-3635QM, 2.4Ghz base, 3.4Ghz turbo.
RAM: 16 GB PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600)
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 8870M (OC) 2GB GDDR5 VRAM.
SSD: 512 GB Samsung 840
 

Offline Hammer

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2004, 11:03:27 PM »
Kgrach

Search for Socket A(K7) or Socket 370(P6) based SBC instead of Socket 7(P5/K6) based.
Eyetech’s prices are similar to AMD's Geode NX(Socket A) development offerings.  

Socket 7 infrastructure is not mass produced line compared to 2nd/3rd latest generation socket.
AmigaForever 2016 with AmigaOS 4.1 FE, AMIDuOS\'s Android 5.01, MS Windows 10 Pro X64
Samsung ATIV Book 8 880Z5E laptop with touch screen.
CPU: Intel Core i7-3635QM, 2.4Ghz base, 3.4Ghz turbo.
RAM: 16 GB PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600)
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 8870M (OC) 2GB GDDR5 VRAM.
SSD: 512 GB Samsung 840
 

Offline Hammer

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #49 on: August 29, 2004, 11:33:37 PM »
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The only problem is that nobody makes GPU coolers that tall (well, except nVidia, and those aren't passive),

Note that Geforce FX 5200 can be passively cooled(with a small heat sink).
AmigaForever 2016 with AmigaOS 4.1 FE, AMIDuOS\'s Android 5.01, MS Windows 10 Pro X64
Samsung ATIV Book 8 880Z5E laptop with touch screen.
CPU: Intel Core i7-3635QM, 2.4Ghz base, 3.4Ghz turbo.
RAM: 16 GB PC3-12800 (DDR3-1600)
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 8870M (OC) 2GB GDDR5 VRAM.
SSD: 512 GB Samsung 840
 

Offline SHADES

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2004, 11:48:55 PM »
@ everyone???

Umm, I know this is a little off topic, however has anyone heard of when or if a new standared size ATX mainboard is bieng produced? DDR etc...
It's not the question, that is the problem, it is the problem, that is the question.
 

Offline Argo

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2004, 01:38:51 AM »
@ Shades
  That would be the CX, which is going to be a Mini/Micro-ATX board. If you wish to discuss it, please start a topic in the forums.
 

Offline Waccoon

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2004, 06:06:11 AM »
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Indeed, and we were promised some sort of miracle API for that 5 years ago... but who expects it to be ready?

The only sound API I've seen from Amiga so far is the "dancing potato" MOD player.  :-)

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This could depend on your USB host controller. Which does mean I'll have to go back and look at what those 50% utilization reviews tested with.

Yeah.  I was looking into backup software recently and thought about getting an external hard drive.  In the review I read, all the external drives sucked a lot of cycles, though they did vary quite a bit.  I'll see if I can find the link again, as I read it a few weeks ago.

Note:  The drives were tested with a HD benchmark program.  It did not involve running actual backup software, which usually eats up a lot of CPU time because of the use of compression.

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There are still through-holes for the standard GPU cooler spring-clip mount, right?

Are there?  I thought the only holes were for the module mounts.

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How exactly do you cap a microBGA or whatever these things are?

The same way they do it with northbridge chips -- with plastic.  My point is not to disipate heat, it's to protect the chip from damage.  I used to mount a 300 gram copper cooler on an AMD Thouroughbred B processor, and that was a real nail-biter, even with a shim.  I really, really don't like exposed cores.  AMD was insane for using the flip-chip design with their Athlons.
 

Offline Crumb

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2004, 09:12:20 AM »
@PulsatingQuasar&Ikir

I know that the 750FX is slightly faster in normal operation, but who cares? we don't have many OS4 ppc apps yet and the 68k apps will run faster than on the real hardware.

Trying to sell me a 750FX saying that it's a 10% faster than a g4 in integer/fpu operations won't make me want buy one. If I really wanted extra speed I would launch an Altivec version of the program. And the cost of a modern fanless 1ghz G4 is less than the price stated by Eyetech.

I think it would be better for eyetech to think twice what they are doing. Pegasos2/G4 exists and it's a far better price/value solution at the moment so give us at least a G4 option.

I prefer a G4/600 rather than a 750FX@800Mhz.

@Rogue:
my message wasn't directed to you but more to eyetech. I replied to your message because you were saying that in normal operations 750FX is faster than G4

@Argo:
Sorry for my english, I guess I should have used future "now you won't tell me altivec is useless uh?" instead of using a present verb.

Just check out the latest micro-ATX and barebone boards... they are getting smaller and faster, with fast XPs and P4s...

And it's ok about the industrial version because they won't need Altivec, but for consumers it's quite important...
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: Club de Usuarios de Amiga de Zaragoza (CUAZ)
 

Offline KimmoK

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2004, 10:41:44 AM »
"FAQ"

"Does the commercial model only accept 256M RAM?"

No, it has one SODIMM socket equipped with 256M SDRAM.

"And, what's the draw here just smaller size?"

Yes. (?)

"There's (much) less expansion"

There's also more included. Like GFX and audio.
With the ricer card these miniboards can go beyond A1XE capability. (not talking about the I model yet)

The I model can most likely handle more "features" than the XE, except faster 3D GFX.
(It seems almost unlimited because of the stackable PC/104, firewire, etc.)

"less performance,"

Why so? They most likely deliver the same or better performance than A1XE with the same CPU.

The I model has faster ATA interface, faster ethernet, etc...

btw: Desktop cluster workstation.

"and the same high price"

I think with these mini boards you get slightly more for slightly less.

"What are they marketing to?"

Amigans (AOS4 fans) and insustrial users (like themself ((multimedia kiosks etc.)), KMOS customers((broadband media whatever boxes))).



They might not be perfect. But they seem "ok" so far.   (I can see myself buying the mini I modell ... as the new micro does not seem to appear any time soon)
- KimmoK
// Windows will never catch us now.
// The multicolor AmigaFUTURE IS NOW !! :crazy:
 

Offline Zorro

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2004, 11:34:19 AM »
Still a bit too pricey, unfortunately...  

And I was expecting something more about the specs... sadly, some "secret" infos that I eared wasn't true...  :-(
--- --- --- --- --- --- ---
   Zorro:roflmao:Zorro
--- --- --- --- --- --- ---
The Phoenix is rising...
 

Offline Warface

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2004, 01:09:44 PM »
I know it's offtopic, inflammatory, trollish, etc., but as yet no one mentioned (µ-A1-C is the cheaper G3 version):

µ-A1-C - gbp349/euro499/USD599 (ex VAT/sales tax/ex 100 EUR for OS4)

Pegasos II G4/1000 Motherboard  EU: €499.00 (excluding taxes and shipping)

I see a striking similarity, and even more striking differences. Honestly, I hoped for a way much more cheaper microA1...
 

Offline Crumb

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2004, 02:36:56 PM »
me too :-/

It would be cheaper for eyetech to buy genesi some PegasosG4, add their flashrom code and run OS4 on it that producing the A1s...
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: Club de Usuarios de Amiga de Zaragoza (CUAZ)
 

Offline KimmoK

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2004, 02:41:49 PM »
"µ-A1-C - gbp349 (ex VAT/sales tax/ex 100 EUR for OS4)"
(including GFX and the licence required for AOS4 compatibility)

"Pegasos II G4/1000 Motherboard ..."
(£340.41 ex vat and with quarranteed AOS4 incompatibility)

"I see a striking similarity, and even more striking differences. Honestly, I hoped for a way much more cheaper microA1..."

I think there is no sense in comparing those two. A1 is really targetted to  specific niches while peg2 is targetted to a wide open platform market (with 0% going to any OS R&D etc).

There is more sense in comparing MOS, AOS4 and their SW base and then to deside where to go and forget the rest.



For AOS4 branch:

uA1C 800 --- gbp349 (ex VAT/sales tax/ex 100 EUR for OS4) (Audio, GFX, MEM)
uA1I 800 --- gbp399 (ex VAT/sales tax/ex 100 EUR for OS4) (Audio, GFX, MEM, ATA133, PC/104, GigabitE, Firewire...etc etc)
A1XEG4 800 - gbp5oo (ex VAT/sales tax/ex 100 EUR for OS4) (slower CPU except Altivec, no Audio, no GFX, no MEM)

Now... uA1 start to look a lot more interesting. (if one is interested in the AOS4 side of world)
- KimmoK
// Windows will never catch us now.
// The multicolor AmigaFUTURE IS NOW !! :crazy:
 

Offline Warface

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #59 on: August 30, 2004, 07:09:34 PM »
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slower CPU except Altivec


I see it as a new trend, but really, it's true, that there is little difference between same clocked G3 and G4 (in FPU for example, G4 has an advantage) - but it depends on the code (using altivec or not, optimised for G4 or not), and ain't XE's having those G4s running at 933 MHz, which makes this silly argument really moot?