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AuthorTopic: Two new µ-A1's models on the way  (Read 5667 times)

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Offline seer

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2004, 10:33:33 AM »
Dealers. They want to earn something as well I guess.

 :-? You mean they are not doing this because they love us ?  :-?  

:-P  ;-)
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you.
~
 

Offline Floid

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2004, 10:56:10 AM »
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I still don't understand why people WANT motherboards with only one expansion slot. They must really like cheezy graphics and CPU-hungry on-board components. I'd like to know how much CPU time the hard drive controller and audio system use on the AmigaOne boards.
The same as they use on every other system you can buy from any other OEM these days; barely any, in practice.

Piping 44.1KHz * 16bit to a soundcard DAC is piping 44.1KHz * 16bit to a soundcard DAC, no matter how much you did or didn't pay for the card.  UATA is UATA.  I prefer SCSI too, but in claiming the integrated peripherals are less than you'd get from Apple or Gateway, get over it.

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Yes, you can build a pizza box, but you still can't make a laptop.
You can't?  D*mn, and you just gave away the 'killer app' for the uA1-I.  PCI-104 allows you to inject power, and one big 'daughterboard' with the appropriate LCD controller (yes, @#%$# LVDS would've made this easier), charging apparatus/battery holster/PSU, and a Cardbus bridge would make a scary-flexible little system.  

A scary-expensive one, too, and not one that'd win any prizes for thin size, but at least it'd be doable.

(Oh yeah:  Gut a USB Happy Hacking or equivalent thin'n'light keyboard/pointer combo for input.)

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Besides, with the rise of flat-panel displays, I'm surprised more companies don't make sideways computers that mount behind the monitor. You can still get a machine with PCI slots if you do that.
If you're talking about those designs the Germans showed off a bit back... I've been saying that for a while, too.  However, ITX is still the favored form factor for this, because most people looking for 'cute' PC-in-monitor designs don't give a crap about expansion.

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Why does everyone insist on using tiny HSFs for the CPU? I thought the PPC was supposed to be so cool. A plain, passive heatsink for $2 should do fine for such a chip.
Well, they switched to active cooling before anyone realized nobody'd finished the Linux support, and don't seem to have looked back. ;-)

I can understand that aspect, though, to the extent that AMD's gone to doing the same... Nobody needs a reputation for flakiness for dealers doing things that 'should work.'  (Comparing and contrasting the Beige G3 in the house, various 486s, and the Via C3, a passive heatsink should be fine.. if it's the size of a tall K6-2 cooler and placed immediately within the path of airflow.  But there's no retaining mechanism for something that heavy,* so welcome to catch-22.)

*A plastic 'spider' that clips around the edge of the board would work, in combination with thermal tape, but who wants to go through the trouble of fabricating when the design's already so overbudget?
 

Offline Framiga

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2004, 11:27:25 AM »
Hi Ikir

GREAT! . . . like  promised ;-)
 

Offline Hammer

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2004, 11:40:02 AM »
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The same as they use on every other system you can buy from any other OEM these days; barely any, in practice.

Note that integrated NV LAN (or any full featured MCP SB's functions) wouldn’t be classified "CPU-hungry".
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Offline itix

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2004, 11:54:33 AM »
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It is also useless if the user doesn't have any need for it. Your point being (other than trolling)?

Eh? This was from Seer:

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Depends if one needs firewire & PC/104 and doesn't need an upgradeable CPU.

They are not going to write FireWire stack in one day and if the mA1-I is the only A1 board with FiWi I'd expect writing FiWi stack is not at top priority atm. Supporting USB stack is lot work already.

In Linux FiWi should be just matter of drivers of course.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline Crumb

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2004, 11:58:15 AM »
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Anything else to back that up? From what I have observed, the 750FX is faster than the 7451 and 7455 when Altivec is not used. At the same clock frequency, mind you.


When you launch an altivec accelerated Moovid you will notice it.

Well... you'll notice it when you really want speed (3d stuff, video editing converting and playing etc).

Don't tell me that Altivec is useless please ;-)

It sounds as if Eyetech had lots and lots of G3s they bought 2 years ago for the A1-XE, all the customers choosed a g4 and now they don't know what to do with the room full of (now slow and expensive) G3s

A new G4 cpu is cheaper than 170pounds. A g3 may be ok if the computer was cheaper

I'm quite angry with the price of these boards... and the lack of a G4 option? I can't understand it!

I hope I don't sound trollish but I'm quite angry and dissapointed.
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: Club de Usuarios de Amiga de Zaragoza (CUAZ)
 

Offline ikir

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2004, 12:52:54 PM »
@ Crumb
Read again: more speed than a G4 in applications which doens't use altivec ;-)  These G3s have a lot of cache also.
Remember that you can plug (when available) a new module, a  G4, or if there will a lot of buyers also a dual G4 module :-)

@Framiga
Hi mate ;-)

@all
Again, i know (or see at the Webbit show) a lot of people interested in this board and they are ex-amigans and some newcomers. Anyway we'll see, why starting saying that it will be a failure. Eyetech already managed to do 4 AMigaONe models (SE, XE, MicroA1-C, MicroA1-I). IMHO in our small market is already a big step.

Happy computing to all, be positive :-)
 

Offline PulsatingQuasar

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2004, 01:12:29 PM »
@Crumb

Reading is not your strong point here is it!

The 750FX is FASTER than G4 at same clock WITHOUT Altivec. That is what was said.

Also, I think you miss the point about these MicroA1's. Mini ITX boards have never been about powerhorses with fast processors, fast video and the like.

The MicroA1 is about doing things well, silently and small with low power consumption just like a VIA Epia and the like. The 750FX can do that and the G4 can not.

If you want a power horse, you need the XE or XC.

EDIT: I have a 750FX and am only going to upgrade it if the 1.4 GHz G4 becomes available.
BlizzardPPC powered!!
AmigaOne-XE G3 800 MHz, 512 MB RAM, Radeon 8500, OS4
 

Offline Cyberus

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2004, 01:53:30 PM »
The thing is, I've been waiting for these boards for quite some time. I still only use classic Amiga at the moment, but thought a micro-A1 would be a nice little machine to play around with. But its just too expensive (to me) to justify buying one.
I'm not necessarily critising Eyetech, they've just put it out of MY reach financially as a hobby machine - I can't see myself buying one now. If it was a g4 machine, maybe I could accept the price.

Before anyone accuses me of trolling, I'm not either  'red' or 'blue', but comparing price (I know that's not an important criterion to a lot of people), makes the micro A1 look unappealing compared to a Peg II w/G4.
[Remember, I don't own either]
I like Amigas
 

Offline Rogue

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2004, 02:24:39 PM »
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you'll notice it when you really want speed (3d stuff, video editing converting and playing etc


For 3D stuff I prefer a T&L unit on the graphics card...

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Don't tell me that Altivec is useless please


Huh? Where did I say so? I just said that the 750FX is faster than an equally clocked 7451/7455. IBM CPU's are the better PowerPC's. I am anxiously waiting for the day that they integrate their 970 Altivec unit into the 750 design.

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(now slow and expensive) G3s


Again, a "G3" (I still hate that stupid numbering scheme, it's like a Mot 750 and a 750FX are the same thing) is not slow. The 750 FX has twice the L2 cache than the 7451, and you *will* notice that.

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A new G4 cpu is cheaper than 170pounds


Honestly, I don't know. But you need to complain to Eyetech not to me.
Look out, I\'ve got a gun
 

Offline kgrach

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2004, 04:45:11 PM »
uh folks,

Please check out the prices on industrial computers before you post please.

There is a huge price difference between comsumer PC's and industrial PC's  
Socket 7 industrial PC's boards cost more than the uA1 also if you check out the prices on a PPC industrial Board you would find that they sell for well over twice the price of a uA1.

uh last I checked windows XP cost ~ $100 for the consumer version and ~$200 for the pro version. So the price of OS4.0 is really not out of line.

Also I see nothing wrong with making people buy the OS. Becuase if you buy the AmigaOS version of the board how else are you LEGALY going to run the OS. If you only want to run linux thats a different board without the OS4 uboot. So that argument doesn't work.

Also if you read the Posting you would see that the PCI slot is expandable. Also the Consumer version uses the same CPU board as all of the XE boards.

There are people currently working on making faster CPU modules available in the near future.

Kgrach
 

Offline Russ

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2004, 06:52:21 PM »
I agree totally with you.
Mr. Hardware Computers is taking preorders for the Micro A1-I and the A1-C. We will also be getting some AmigaOne's (limited supply). The AmigaOnes are first order first serve. I am limited to 10 units. We will be selling whole systems and individual boards.Mr. Hardware Computers
sales@mrhardwarecomputers.com
631-821-2364
Mr. Hardware Computers - Amiga Since 1985

sales@mrhardwarecomputers.com - http://www.mrhardwarecomputers.com
Phone: 631-918-2558
     
Owner & Developer of MRHK-1 Pc to Amiga keyboard adapters,
SBase4, SBase4Pro, SBase4Pro-RT,wirel
 

Offline Waccoon

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2004, 07:47:43 PM »
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The same as they use on every other system you can buy from any other OEM these days; barely any, in practice.

Assuming you do streaming only.  When you add on mixing, 3D effects, filtering... then your CPU cycles will start to disappear real fast.  Piping information is easy.  I'ts procesing that's hard.

That's what many people don't realize about external USB2.0 hard drives.  I was going to get one myself to replace my internal backup hard drive, until I realized that many external drives can suck between 25% to 50% CPU utilization.  Ouch.

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You can't? [regarding laptop]

Well, given the determination and fanaticism of the Amgia community, I suppose someone will try.  But, it still won't be practical.  :-)

I wonder how long an AmigaOne would last on batteries...

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However, ITX is still the favored form factor for this, because most people looking for 'cute' PC-in-monitor designs don't give a crap about expansion.

Those mini-PC designs annoy me.  Why make a mini tower a foot tall and put it beside the monitor when you can put it behind?

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But there's no retaining mechanism for something that heavy,* so welcome to catch-22.)

That's the limiting factor with the "module" design.  OK, you got your shiny new G4 or G5 in your AmigaOne.  How do you cool the beast with something that won't crack the chip or fall off?

It doesn't help that the PPC is used in embedded applications where custom heatsinks are used.  IBM isn't capping their cores except on the low-end G3, which doesn't really need a heatsink, anyway.

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uh last I checked windows XP cost ~ $100 for the consumer version and ~$200 for the pro version. So the price of OS4.0 is really not out of line

I agree.  Still, they'd probably make more money if they didn't build up for a huge release every five years.  There should have been an OS 3.95 or whatever (stupid version numbers).

My take is that the "industrial" AmigaOne won't run OS4 -- if will run Linux.  What's the point in spending that much money for a Linux box when you can build one yourself, and any Amiga user will buy the commercial board.

Again, I don't see the point of making the board.  Seems to me Eyetech is suffering from supply before demand.  Who is their customer?  Do their supposed customers really want a board built like this?
 

Offline Argo

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2004, 08:05:48 PM »
@Crumb
  He's not saying that Altivec is useless (Just alittle trollish, you ask!)
Anyway, He just stated that when Altivec is not used it is in most cases.
People have to remember that itx is not going to have the power of a desktop in something the size of your palm. It has it's place. I see it as more of a media center/kiosk/webtv kinda component.
 

Offline Argo

Re: Two new µ-A1's models on the way
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2004, 08:12:29 PM »
@PulsatingQuasar
  Bingo! Gold Star.
A DVR/media center kinda thing would be cool.. something better than a TIVO. Eyetech also stated that they queried their customer base, so I assume they have some industial customers lined up already.