Mai Excited about Validation!

[System]

IMO running this as a "news" story is pathetic (I would have expected such a posting on ANN though). Well if the "community" can sink deeper, then why shouldn't we, seems to be the reasoning....

[System]

@ redrumloa

For shame

Why would you like to lay so much shame on Amiga.org and indirectly onto the Amiga/MorphOS "community"?

This would look so incredible pathetic to almost everyone outside our "community". Of course, there are billions of rants people could create about billions of stupid topics.

[System]

@ Redrumloa

Your attack on Targhan is uncalled for.

You must have misread something. Clearly Targhan has his own agenda to write this rant, however Amiga.org decided to post it as a news item.

[System]

@ redrumloa

That's an attack.

That was crtiticism directed towards the person(s) who decided to run this as a news story.

Believe me this does make the "community" look even more pathetic....

This makes me really sad. Once there was a strong community of constructive people helping eachother. Today, everyone seems to screw everyone, especially when they are down and in a position to be screwed (companies as well as individuals).

Really sad, in my opinion.

[System]

@ Downix, Dammy and all the other well known trolls

I'm with redluma here, you are behaving very inappropriately considering that Targhan did his research and backed it up.

First of all, I don't share his underlying opinions and conclusions with regard to Mai Logic, but that is besides the point.

Secondly you two guys have repeatably spread nonesense and FUD with regard to me and others without ever backing this up, so the things you say make no sense coming from you. For example, you Downix, made endless stupid 0% true statement like "Calling Sassenrath a god, when on other posts you go on and on about how his work is obsolete and not worth bothering with?" or you Dammy stating in dozens of postings how you know 100% for certain that Amiga Inc is bankrupt. If you guys are so right, then please back up such nonesense statements now.

Oh, I see now. If it backs up your fluff pieces, it's good journalism. If it goes contradicting your favorite spin, it's a rant. Gotcha.

I am against this kind of behaviour, running such rants as general news. Also if this was directed towards Genesi, H&P, Microsoft, etc.

I am sure that (almost) none of the general news websites would have run this "news" story. Not OSNews, not Tweakers, not CNN, not even a trolls nests like Slashdot, etc. But yet again the Amiga community proves that Amigaland is the land of endless possibilities (in the negative sense)....

@ Amiga.org webmasters

Just look at the people who are backing you up today, they are the members of the FUD/misinformation spreading gang of yesterday.  Don't you really see what you are doing to this website and how you are hurting the outsider opinion of the Amiga/MorphOS "community"?

Just for your information, I *could* write hundreds of similar "news" articles trying to attack various "Amiga related companies". But I don't, because what is there to be gained? IMO nothing, only to loose and make both the involved companies and the "community" look even more pathetic than they already do. (Sometimes even entirely by themselves)   :-(

[System]

@ Targhan

What I'm bashing is the industry in general, and it just so happened that Mai picked the perfect time to make an example out of themselves.

IMO nonesense, I believe your choice for Mai Logic is anything but a random coincidence. Based various information I received, it is likely that Mai does not want to work with Genesi anymore.

Bill Buck even goes as far as spreading hollow legal threats directed against Mai. Now you happen to be a vivid MorphOS/Pegasos follower and so it truly looks as if you have a hidden agenda.

[System]

@ Step

i like editorials as they provide a persons view of different issues.

Me too. However this isn't "hardware news" and normally when dealing with opinion pieces, this should be made obvious right from the start and normally I would like to know some background info on the author.

[System]

Yea, who cares? Elbox did the same thing with their SharkPPC announcements a year ago or so, making a big deal out of some IBM PPC thing similar or identical to this situation. Big deal. I can't imagine anyone caring enough to type as much about it as you did.

Marketing types spin anything they can find to spin, and this is just one example. There's nothing special about insight into realizing this.

[System]

@ MarkTime

This is not only news, it is rarity in news.

This isn't in the ordinary sense a news story, this is simply an opinion piece.

It is researched and informative, and the facts were checked.

IMO this isn't a well researched and balanced opinion article. Simply because the parties involved were not asked for any input, reaction or clarification. This story is pretty much Targhan's and his unknown friends' take on some selected data.

@ Downix

The thing is, if a similar article were to delve into, say, DCE, Genesi or MorphOS, these same people lambasting it would be praising it. That is what I call hypocracy.

I would not. However it is quite easy to take apart the PR stunts and press releases from just about any company, without too much effort.

A small Genesi example:

For istance the glorified "Amiga Award 2002 for bplan GmbH" announcements. While in fact 1) Genesi was the main sponsor for this Award 2) Polls for ARC visitors show that the AmigaOS/AmigaOne solutions were still by far the most preferred solution in comparison. This was backed up by various people who asked around, including Petra.

Should someone write a *news item* about this? IMO not, but if someone would, this article when including personal valuations, would become nothing more than an opinion article, well researched or not.

[System]

@Targhan

Thanks for taking the time actually write an article. All we generally get is regurgitated press releases, vacuous 1 paragraph descriptions of some new project that's been kicked off or lengthy discussions on the forums which tend to involve people getting caught up in ever decreasing circles of, at best, speculation and, at worst,  paranoia and even spiteful venom.

The point of your article (and correct me if I'm wrong) was to take a look at the nature of press releases and marketing speak. The type of releases you are talking about are the sort of thing that ppl on these forums and others hang on for months for and dissect in minute detail. For this reason, you wanted to take a step back and point out this very simple but pertinent fact. Whereas this point could be made in a brief post, it would likely not hit target so you took the time to present it in an entertaining manner and provided some (dare I say it?) validation for what you were saying.

Some people were gracious enough to treat it as something that was an enjoyable contribution but hardly earth shattering. Others, not seeing the wood for the trees, have jumped on it in the same way that those official informational tid-bits are jumped on. The point, I fear has been largely missed.  

Please don't be put of writing items of this type again. You have a good style and I'd very much like to hear more of what you have to say.

[System]

@Downix

OT but I love the avatar! - I'd passed a couple of posts before I actually spotted it.

You should try buying fuel in the UK though - Ouch!  :-o

[System]

@ MarkTime

You act as if a press release is news and cannot be questioned.

Of course it can, i.e within forums. But if you combine news items with personal opinions it should be clear to be an opinion article and not pure facts or official data.

At OSNews we add an "Our take:" to such news items. Feature articles are totally different from news items of course. Within feature articles (including editorials, reviews, etc) it is very normal to present personal opinions. Sadly many people here, don't seem to know the difference between feature articles and news items.

For example, some people even attack feature articles for including opinions! Yes I know, this does sound very ackward, but you only have to search for some past responses to articles by the various people posting here!  :-o

[System]

@ Andre Siegel

You are, of course, wrong on all accounts.

Welcome Andre, the more Genesi personal posting here the better.  ;-)

They were also the main sponsor of the official "Amiga Award."

So you ackowledge that Genesi was a main sponsor for this award. Thanks, point one confirmed. BTW a nice throphy you guys got, looks like the most expensive one yet.  ;-)

So whatever was said by visitors of the show, it did not matter with regard to the Amiga Award.

IMO the opinions of show visitors do matter, as they have seen your product in action. This regards to point two, a majority of the visitors preferred an AmigaOne-XE, this despite Bill claims about bugs at this event and despite seeing Genesi's product in action.

This is what I meant with - "glorified "Amiga Award 2002 for bplan GmbH" announcements." - The general opinion did not change in your favour despite seeing and test driving your product, and so the fact that Genesi won this award was not that big of a deal. As people could not yet vote for the AmigaOne-XE, your main competitor within the Amiga market.

Now compare this to what is being said with regard to IBM's validation within this article. Get the point people?  :-)

@ Kay

If it was rigged

I don't have any reliable insider knowledge with regard to this and so I did not state such a thing. Personally I did not vote, but if I would have voted I would have voted for the Pegasos/bPlan (as the AmigaOne-XE/AmigaOS4 are a products for 2003, not 2002)!

Just like with this article questioning the value of the IBM validation, I was giving an example how one could easily do the same with regard to the company the writer so vividly supports.

[System]

@ Andre Siegel

fail to see how anybody in his right mind could misinterpret my words in the same way as you just did. Enough said.

So now you are implying that Genesi was NOT a main sponsor? Simply be clear, was Genesi a main contributer to the Amiga Award 2002 or not?

Again, while many people might prefer an AmigaOne because it will be capable of running AmigaOS4.0 out of the box whenever this gets released, this does not mean that these people think that the AmigaOne product would be the better hardware solution

The German post-ARC polls did include an AmigaOS4/Pegasos option. The AmigaOne/AmigaOS4 was still far more popular, although you are right that an AmigaOS4/Pegasos was alot more popular as compared to a MorphOS/Pegasos combination.

The Amiga Award was given to the company who produced the most innovative Amiga-related product in 2002.

Exactly my point, people could not vote for their preferred product.

Many Amiga users know that MAI is the driving force behind the Teron/AmigaOne boards and the actual producer of the hardwar

Yes, I am very happy such a competent and well respected company is backing the Amiga community. I see no reason why Mai could not win an Amiga Award 2003 within the Amiga hardware category.

Your reasoning is flawed.

You simply don't get my point. This was an example in reply to this article. I wasn't trying to say that Genesi was doing anything illegal or bad, just like Targhan did not want to do this with regard to Mai.

It's good that Genesi employees can try to counter my statements. This is exactly why I stated that IMO for this article to be well researched he should have approached the involved parties.

@ MarkTime

but that is what all journalists, everywhere, have to do, decide what the facts are....

No a good journalist simply reports the news and tries to keep his personal opinions to himself as much as possible (There is always bias though, as the journalist must select the data he is going to report). Or alternatively he writes a feature article, while it is always very obvious people are dealing with an opinion piece.

This article was presented as "Hardware news: Mai Excited about Validation!". With regard to this article it is very misleading and not at all correct behaviour towards Mai. Instead this article could have read: Editorial: "Why is Mai Excited about IBM Validation?"

[System]

@ MarkTime

Childish, OSNews is about computing, not about the believes of your sect.

And I hate to burst your bubble, reporting does not per se have to be truth preaching. For instance President Bush may say: "Irak has nuclear capabilities!", Sadam Hussein may "Untrue, they just want to seize our oil!", the weapon inspectors may claim: "Iraq has no nuclear program".

As a journalist, you report this news without adding opinions, like "Bush is the new Hitler!" or "The weapon inspectors are incompetent", etc. But that does not mean the content of what is being stated is true or false, it doesn't imply the journalist is unbiased neither. Maybe he only reports on the statements made by Bush, or emphasizes the statements made by Sadam.

As I stated before the types of categories are 'Hardware', 'Software','Genesi', 'Amiga' etc...and not classifications like 'Editorial', 'News', 'PR' etc....

That does not change the fact that you can easily tag it as an editorial. Category: Hardware or whatever Title:"Editorial: Targhan on Mai/IBM validation".

of it is in fact just says 'Hardware'

Read above, it was posted as news. Just hit the news logo, located at the upper right corner of this webpage and see if you can find Arghan's opinion piece.

I just hope the webmasters have learned from the things I have written, and finally see the mistake they have made with regard to the way this opinion piece was presented to the public.  :-(