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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: wonea on June 04, 2003, 01:42:09 PM
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MorphOS News (http://www.morphos-news.de/index.php?lg=en)
Low priced Pegasos 2 motherboards with and without CPUs annouced.
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Better keep my wallet in my pocket then. I was gonna buy a Peg 1 this weekend.
@BBRV
Will there be a developers discount on the G3 and G4 Pegasos II's?
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All offers of course also include the CPU card (the
trade in offer too!). So the prices are incl. CPU Card
(either G3 or G4).
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Absolutely fantastic. This is a real company with real ambitions beyond the Amiga market. I have always been critical of companies operating in "The Amiga market" who follow the philosophey of charging astronomical prices just because they can.
This is very, very aggresive pricing for the type of product it is. Major kudos! :-)
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These are mind blasting prices in Amiga terms. These times I hear it mostly from others referring to something else, but I admit I have to join the choir: "Can't wait!" ;-)
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I have to confess, at these prices the Peg2 does look very, very good indeed. Looks like I`ll be buying both an A1 and a Peg2 after all :-)
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Will they keep the name pegasos tho ... what with the trademark infringement.
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Yes, very nicely prized indeed. Too bad it won't run AOS4 or I
would perhaps be interested.
.
SlimJim
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Will they keep the name pegasos tho ... what with the trademark infringement.
Ain't it's a bit too early to jump into conclusions? Of which you and a few others used to accuse ppl on ann?
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Yes, very nicely prized indeed. Too bad it won't run AOS4 or I
Hey, It'll run AROS, that good enough :-D
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EXACTLY Warface. Isn't it irritating when people drop in a thread and do something like that?
If you can't point it out to someone in words, demonstrate.
QED. ;-)
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I can't, in good consious spend $700 on a G3 motherboard, when a better motherboard is being sold for $300.
AOS or no AOS, at these prices, I would buy a pegasos, in fact, its only been the lack of availability or I would have one already.
Someday, when you can grab your credit card, check the in-stock levels at the website, buy a board knowing it will be shipped the same day and delivered the next.
Then all it takes is one moment of indescretion and the pegasos is sitting on your porch the next day!
Which btw, is also, how I got married...WHOA...nelly, backup ....I didn't mean that.
But it is why I have a brushed aluminum silver case on the way, and for some odd reason, a towerized A1200 on the way as well.... :-o
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Nice try then :-)
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Will they keep the name pegasos tho ... what with the trademark infringement.
Or perhaps they could claim the trademark "Amiga", previously owned by Amiga Inc (but abandoned January 3, 2003) for use in:
"computer software used to facilitate development of software applications that can run on multiple platforms and other electronic devices; operating system software for personal computers and other electronic devices"
:-o
Note: I don't have a clue about this. I know nothing about the procedures in regestering trademarks, I only read this att ann.lu (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1054723894&category=unmoderated&number=9#comment).
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That WOULD be funny ;-) I could go around calling you a faithful follower of The Name cult ;-)
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Or perhaps they could claim the trademark "Amiga", previously owned by Amiga Inc (but abandoned January 3, 2003) for use in:
Or Genesi, could buy that particular Tradmank (relating to development of software applications that can run on multiple platforms and other electronic devices; operating system software for personal computers and other electronic devices )
and then allow The AROS team to use it (as they said they would). Afterall AROS allows the "development of software aplications that can run on multiple platforms" :-D. It's also an "Operating system for Personal Computers and other electronic devices"
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Good idea! :-D
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Hopefully i'll get my peg1 to boot before trade in time! :lol;
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Wilse, this is crazy!
Please email us your number. We have to find you some help!!!
:-)
R&B
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Along with MorphOS 1.4, the Pegasos is gonna kick some butt.
£250 for motherboard and CPU. That's too tempting, I will be buying one.
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Any details about AGP, PCI, on-board I/O, etc?
I'd be hoping for AGP4x at the very least, and several PCI slots (maybe even a couple of 64-bit 66MHz PCI slots given the Marvel northbridge specs). USB2? Firewire? Ethernet? Audio? SATA? IDE?
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Poster: wonea Date: 2003/6/4 15:13:00
Along with MorphOS 1.4, the Pegasos is gonna kick some butt.
£250 for motherboard and CPU. That's too tempting, I will be buying one.
At the current exchange rate of £0.61 to the US$, it's £214.31 including the VAT!
Bye bye AmigaOne. :-P
Anyone who buys an A1 after these babies come out is an absolute fool, and has more money than sense.
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If Genesi can deliver at this price they'll be making some serious cash I'd say :-). Is this also cheaper than comparable macs (if you count int the box/HD/keyboard etc)?
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Making some serious cash? How do you know this isn't a loss leader?
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Hmm, you've got a point there. Nevertheless I'd imagine at 300EUR it'll be a great deal for a lot of folks. Perhaps Genesi has some sort of licensing scheme coming up?
What was the price of a Peg I btw?
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mdma wrote: Better keep my wallet in my pocket then. I was gonna buy a Peg 1 this weekend.
There is a trade-in discount for Pegasos-1 board users upgrading to Pegasos-2, I think.
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There is a trade-in discount for Pegasos-1 board users upgrading to Pegasos-2, I think.
Might as well wait, as i'll need to buy DDR RAM for the Peg2, and I want a G4 now I know it's available! :-D
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Great news but still no final release of morphos when they release a final version and bring the price down to pc levels then ill buy one. :-o
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Bill? Rachel? Bill, again?
Did you not see? You can legally purchace an AMiGA Trade Mark that covers AROS!!! Isn't this great news :-D
And how did you figure out that I'm Matt Parsons? I like to keep my identity secret and go by my super-hero name... Bloodline... :-D
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> How do you know this isn't a loss leader?
Why do you think it's some loss? Because someone
once said that "a PPC mainboard with a G4 CPU can
never ever be available for 499EUR"?
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is this the Genesi butt kissing thread :-)
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is this the Genesi butt kissing thread
Sure, and I'll keep kissing until I get what I want... That's how the world works... :-D
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Sure, and I'll keep kissing until I get what I want... That's how the world works...
:lol:
I thought on here you were only allowed to kiss Fleecy's backside!
If you support A1 you are "True Amigan', if you want value for your hard earned money, then you are "A troll".
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@BBRV
Will there be a developers discount on the G3 and G4 Pegasos II's?
If you ever get an answer to this, you'll be more lucky than I am...
Hopefully I did not wait for my mail to be answered to work on some MorphOS stuff ;( (=> UAE rulez !)
Léo.
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wow thats an incredible price... I was thinking at a minimum Peg2 would cost say 600 or so... pretty good job!!! 299 willl definitly lure some amigans back...
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This platform looks more & more attactive by the day..
It runs Amiga apps, MorphOS, linux, and MAcOS X.. Now
it's even in my price range.. Does the pegasos 2 come with Pro Station Audio?. even if its only at a discount, I'm still sold.
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is this the Genesi butt kissing thread
I didnt know there was one.
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Hey sadhead! Take an asprin and take a break sport!
It is just a computer (albeit a VERY COOL one) :-)
R&B :-)
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How is it Cool when its just another computer ?
only sad people think its cool ? :-P
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WEll I guess its decided then. I'm buying the MOS/Pegasos combo.
Damn shame though, but the MOS guys just did it sooner and cheaper.
-Alex
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@bbrv
It is just a computer
Thats not what your suposed to say about your product. :-)
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Damn shame though, but the MOS guys just did it sooner and cheaper
Alex, I just don't get the "damn shame" part. MorphOS and Pegasos developers and Genesi have worked their asses off and they've tried to work to a realistic business plan. One that looks beyond amigaland's habit of giving out the equivalent to mercy sex to companies that haven't really got much to entice a sane, attractive person.
Who knows, maybe MophOS and Pegasos will be able to score outside the community in a real way if they rely on realistic business practices to attract partners and customers - instead of preying on and praying for aforesaid Charity For The Pathetic mindsets, mindsets that have been fostered for all too long in this highly disfunctional community.
I know I got tired a real long time ago of making embarrased excuses for the tatty condition and gaping holes in my chosen platform. I hope that competitive and fully financed realistic business practices can make those memories far more distant yet.
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Quite amazing that anyone get´s so excited about someone saying "We´ll release xxx in month yyy, and the price will be zzz".
Just a warning, don´t hold your breath!
Everybody makes promisses in this market. If you won´t feel like a being fooled around, then buy an existing product.
Everybody; Hyperion, Genesi, Eyetech, Etc., keep on saying they have products coming soon, they´ll have to, cause fewer people will buy the products of the others...
As I said: Don´t hold your breath!
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> How do you know this isn't a loss leader?
Why do you think it's some loss? Because someone
once said that "a PPC mainboard with a G4 CPU can
never ever be available for 499EUR"?
Who said I think its "some loss"? Don't build a glass house on thin air either ( your second sentence ).
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Hey Hardboy!
Sorry to disappoint you, but we won't!
:-)
But, go ahead and hold your breath if you want!
;-)
R&B
P.S. Hi Dave-Buddy! At home or on a coffee break...;-)
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At home now :-)
Just catching up. See you are making publicity hay while the sun shines with the trademark thing ;-)
Got a deadline on Friday so Ill try to limit my coffee breaks to just two a day ;-)
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OK DaveP!
We will be pretty busy tomorrow too, but you name the time and the place for another lively game of PegPong and we will be there!!!
You'll see, we will get you AmiPegorNot guys converted one at a time....:-D PegPower!
Hey SADHead, Cool Computing! Get it!? :-P
Adios Amig(o)s!
Enough for one day!!!
Say good night Dave!
R&B :-)
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Hey SADHead, Cool Computing! Get it!?
Very professional
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For years we had nothing and had to soldier on with creaky hardware, now we have competition for our dough. :-)
If this is what is known by "healthy competition" then bring it on!
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Not all the smileys in the world can save you bb :-/.
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At the current exchange rate of £0.61 to the US$, it's £214.31 including the VAT!
Bye bye AmigaOne.
Anyone who buys an A1 after these babies come out is an absolute fool, and has more money than sense.
IF Eyetech doesn’t respond to the competition e.g. lowering the price for their product then the said company may get a bloody nose.
Any future targeted price VS current price comparison can be flawed since we don’t know how Eyetech will respond to the renewed competition(later in the year).
As for MAI, I do hope they effectively compete with Marvel… The PPC chipsets market needs a X86 style chipset wars e.g. VIA vs nVidia battle royal (for the AMD Athlon market).
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wow thats an incredible price... I was thinking at a minimum Peg2 would cost say 600 or so... pretty good job!!! 299 willl definitly lure some amigans back...
One may have keep in mind that the said product may have to compete with HW products from outside the Amiga world e.g. incoming AMD’s Athlon 64/Athlon XP 3400+ (with 400Mhz DDR FSB chipsets) and Intel’s Pentium 4 @3200Ghz (with 800Mhz QDR FSB chipsets)**.
Define ‘Amigans’. Note that official AmigaForever 5.3 and Amithlon are available for X86 platforms.
**Just keeping things into perspective. Incoming products will push the current top end product's prices lower.
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Hey, It'll run AROS, that good enough
Good enough???
It´s the best Amiga OS (other than 3.1 that is)!!!
Now I´m happy a real Amiga compatible computer with good value for my money. It can run all existing operatingsystem i want to run, AROS, MorphOS, Linux, MacOS X. Just what i need to be free of using this noisy PC.
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I like the idea of moving towards a more realistic price point.
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Everybody; Hyperion, Genesi, Eyetech, Etc., keep on saying they have products coming soon, they´ll have to, cause fewer people will buy the products of the others...
Whoa whoa whoa, take Gensi off that list! I am typing this on Gensi's product right now! It's very real!! :-o
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stupid curiousity has me wondering if these will have
"Gobi" or better yet "Mojave" g3 chips
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Now if they came with a pair of 128M memory modules, I'd be impressed... Just as a convinience. :-D
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@Redrumloa
Didn`t know Genesi did keyboards.
PS, a clue, we are talking about Genesi's Pegasos II which hasn't been releasing and with all of these things pre-announcing the price point and specifications is called in marketing terms "spoiling".
Mind you if you nip over to MorphZone you can read Joanna being insulting about the average Amigans attention span. Maybe shes right.
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DaveP: well.. Spoiling has been going on a long time here.. Promices, 'soon', 99% ready etc.. It's been goin on years now.
I can't tell when Pegasos II appears cause I really don't know. But my best bet (noted here publicly) it'll be delivered to first customers sooner than workin OS4 for Aone owners ..
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@Joanna
Agreed. Its spoiling, but Im not complaining I'm explaining for the chap at the back.
As for release dates, I won't take you up on that bet because frankly I don't know which way things could go ;-)
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> Not all the smileys in the world can save you bb :-/.
Product may, however. :-D
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Whoa whoa whoa, take Gensi off that list! I am typing this on Gensi's product right now! It's very real!!
Maybe they would if you could actually spell it
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Maybe the DMA bug is trashing some of the letters as he types ;-)
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I can't tell when Pegasos II appears cause I really don't know. But my best bet (noted here publicly) it'll be delivered to first customers sooner than workin OS4 for Aone owners ..
So you think OS4 won`t be out before September then? I really hope you end laughing on the other side of your face
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(actually OT cause this is supposed to be about Pegasois 2)
Rudei: well.. Year ago I was much more optimistic, hoping to OS4 release for X-mas 2002 or early 2003... And then I was attacked by people for "being too negative" and "naysayer". Since then.. well. Better not to say too much.. Time will tell.
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So you think OS4 won`t be out before September then? I really hope you end laughing on the other side of your face
Maybe for CSPPC, but for A1? I'd be very surprised.
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So you think OS4 won`t be out before September then? I really hope you end laughing on the other side of your face
Maybe for CSPPC, but for A1? I'd be very surprised.
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redrumloa enthused:
Absolutely fantastic. This is a real company with . . . . .very, very aggresive pricing for the type of product it is. Major kudos!
That's one way of looking at it; though maybe a "rose-coloured glasses" way! How long can a business market its products when it's selling at a loss?
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odin said;
If Genesi can deliver at this price they'll be making some serious cash I'd say .
What? Like Microsoft does when the more X-boxes they sell at UNDER cost -- the more money they loose?
Genesi doesn't have very deep pockets like MS.
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mdma "reasoned":
it's £214.31 including the VAT!
. . . . .Anyone who buys an A1 after these babies come out is an absolute fool, and has more money than sense.
Nah! A1 buyers are more likely to realize that A1's are being sold at a sustainable price.
i.e. That Eyetech is NOT going to loose money with each one they sell.
That means that the A1 has a better chance of surviving.
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Quite. Remember how unimpressive it was when people used to say about PhaseV "they made a loss on every board" as if they were heroes for being incompetant business people?
I don't know if this is or is not a loss leader for the higher priced Pegasuari.
I have my suspicion this spoiler is intended to price Eyetech out of the market.
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vortexau wrote
Nah! A1 buyers are more likely to realize that A1's are being sold at a sustainable price.
i.e. That Eyetech is NOT going to loose money with each one they sell.
That means that the A1 has a better chance of surviving
And how do you know Pegasos 2 will not being sold at a substaibable price?
If the Pegasos bords are still sold at a profit then all they have to worry about it overhead.
Come on give Pegasos a break if Eyetech anounced a price cut lower then Pegasos I don't think you'll be bitching about it.
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Come on give Pegasos a break if Eyetech anounced a price cut lower then Pegasos I don't think you'll be bitching about it.
But if it is sold at a loss they are stupid it is not like a games console where money is made on games .so they would be the losers. :-?
As for undercutting eyetech i doubt it .
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The PegasosII pricing is not a loss-leader - that IS sustainable pricing. Lots of time has been spent in the design phase to make that possible, and partnerships and suppliers have further improved the ratio.
And, no, DaveP, I don't have documented evidence to prove this ; þ
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But what kind of quality are the componants they are using as they say you get what you pay for and the cheaper something is the cheaper the componants will be after all a bmw cost more and is better than a peugot,just because something is cheap it does not make it any good. :-o
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Just speculating greenboy :-) Ill take your word for it. :-)
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amigamad wrote
But what kind of quality are the componants they are using as they say you get what you pay for and the cheaper something is the cheaper the componants will be after all a bmw cost more and is better than a peugot,just because something is cheap it does not make it any good.
Yes your right just becouse somthing is cheaper doesn't make it better but just becouse something is more costly doesn't make it better either.
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vortexau
That's one way of looking at it; though maybe a "rose-coloured glasses" way! How long can a business market its products when it's selling at a loss?
Selling at a loss? Dare to tell whos numbers are you using or are you knowledgeable enough to make that kind of claim on your own? I hope you have not listened some net-wandering lawers too closely . :-D
Main issue here is that: IF Genesi is ever going to target bigger markets than few remainig Amiga-loonies (me included) they have to be able to make product that is both good and decently priced. And looks like they have understood these hard realities a lot better than this another mentioned company ...
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According to BBRV, they won't be selling at a loss,
that's how much the parts+production costs them,
plus a quite good added price to have income...
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Thanks Alkis and Joanna, you are right.
If you add up the cost of the components and the cost of assembly -- even at 299 Euros -- we still make money (and Resellers can too). The SG&A (Selling, General, and Administrative expenses) are another subject. But, this is done with our discretion and with a certain budget in mind.
The Pegasos is NOT a loss leader.
The market has something in mind for the PPC because lots of *marketing* has put it there *and* IBM had a different strategy...
If there were PPC clones, the cost would be the same as the cheapest Win/Intel based solution you could find....think about it.
Have a nice evening.
R&B :-)
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amigamad : But what kind of quality are the componants they are using
Instead of wearing Rolex, they are using Lolex ; } Sheesh! Just as a ferinstance, the Marvel II is a considerably more expensive component than that Mai thing. And it will be a faster board with faster memory spec, so ... ... let's move on...
as they say you get what you pay for and the cheaper something is the cheaper the componants will be
Evidently the concept of buying the same parts in bulk from competitive suppliers that I mentioned did not make much of an impact. But I don't want to type it in bold caps, so I'll just repeat: buying in bulk from competitive suppliers lowers cost considerably.
There. ; }
after all a bmw cost more and is better than a peugot,just because something is cheap it does not make it any good
Anybody want to buy a LOLex? I know I'm laughing now ; }
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If there were PPC clones, the cost would be the same as the cheapest Win/Intel based solution you could find....think about it.
The PPC clone market* may have to reach the ‘economic of scale’ similar to the X86 market before it reaches price equalisation with X86.
One of the cheapest X86 motherboard** I can find**** is $~39 USD (An MSI MS-6340-010, for the Athlon/Duron based CPU). That's around $80 AUD.
*Non-PPC 4xx class.
**Not factoring the 'obsolete' Socket 370 Class motherboard, since they could go down to $19 USD.
****With referable reference (i.e. pricewatch.com).
PS; This is just the motherboards.
IF PPC* platform market is as large as X86, it may attract Microsoft’s attention e.g. Windows NT 4.0 PPC edition (as an example) OR Softwindows 95 (uses a licensed Windows 95 code; for the PPC MacOS platform). Now armed with dotNET ecosystem; different native versions of their said products wouldn’t be a problem.
Just a side note; Can MorphOS compete with a showdown battle with MS Windows XP PPC edition(speculation)?
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@Hammer
THat MSI board is also almost 2 years old, so it's EOL. Right now, nobody has PPC clone boards that are that old.
So let's deal with boards that are currently being produced. The cheapest I've found in an EPoX board, the EP-8KHAL, which is an old design they've kept in production. That costs $79 on pricewatch.
Just the motherboard.
It is more than possible to get PPC down to that scale.
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@JoannaK
No. That looks like conjecture based on speculation so he doesn't need to produce numbers.
And it doesn't take a genius to realise that
IF company sells product at loss THEN it will eventually run out of cash reserves
I mean I could go to the bother of posting a whole bunch of case studies in related fields ( although apparently PhaseV is a good close to home example ).
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The SG&A (Selling, General, and Administrative expenses) are another subject. But, this is done with our discretion and with a certain budget in mind.
Well in business they are all part of the same subject. When stuff clears the sales ledger it is USUALLY used to pay towards all time on account as well as material and production costs.
That is, if commodity was single point of income, if something else is cross subsidising part of the expenses assotiated with admin and sales then it is arguable if you could describe that as a loss leader or a subsidised product.
Either way, risky game in this small market IF the expenses are not balanced by the income, but then you have already played that risk game with Peg 1 and "April" oui?
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So you think OS4 won`t be out before September then? I really hope you end laughing on the other side of your face
Er, by the way, I hope that didn`t come across as too aggressive - I forgot to add the smilie :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
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Hi DaveP, everything is fine here.
Be good!
Write for PegPong!
;-)
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So you think OS4 won`t be out before September then? I really hope you end laughing on the other side of your face
Which year? :-)
OS4 was in an imminent release state since 2001 july. I remember sitting on the AmigaONE mailing list and listening to "delays are out of question", "it will be released".
However, OS4 is maturing and will see the light one day. But setting timedates for that is still a very brave speculation. (However, having OS4 by september sounds realistic, just the past experiences...)
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greenboy admitted:
. . . the Marvel II is a considerably more expensive component than that Mai thing.
@greenboy, JoannaK:
We've already seen the prices that the FIRST Pegasos' (Pegasos1) were delivered to the initial developers!
Then, BB claimed to have developed April1 and April2. More cost!
Then, they decide to re-design their motherboard to use different 'bridges. More cost!
They now have to Develop (Software) for the different design. More cost!
A NEW production set-up for the NEW design to be manufactured. More cost!
So -- if the sales price of the Peg2 is as advised --- what (if any) did they do about:
«1» The money spent on April1 and April2?
«2» The money spent on the re-design of their motherboard?
«3» The money spent on Software design for their new motherboard?
«3» The money spent on changing their production line?
Was THIS extra cost just covered by a Fairy Godmother?
When FORD comes out with a NEW car -- they have to recover the money spent designing it, changing the production line, and manufacturing new components and body-panels!
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So -- if the sales price of the Peg2 is as advised --- what (if any) did they do about:
«1» The money spent on April1 and April2?
«2» The money spent on the re-design of their motherboard?
«3» The money spent on Software design for their new motherboard?
«3» The money spent on changing their production line?
But none of that comes under production cost that is R&D and setup cost. As long as they have a profit per board what is the big deal?
For all you know they could be planning to make it up later with more sales.
What ever their plan it is pointless to argue about it since we don't have that info.
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vortexau,
Starting your post out with "greenboy admitted"???... Cub reporter, huh? - anxious to squeeze a big exposé out.
Well. greenboy did NOT "admit"... greenboy offered - offered with pride in the information, pride that we got past what turned out to be a piece of crap, that we could move on, having made lemonade with a lemon - and now going for a flavor considerably more sophisticated.
I guess the cub reporter was inferring that Marvell chip cost more, so therefore Peg II MUST be a loss leader. Har... Har... ; } If not a reporter, one could easily imagine a new lawyer prancing around a courtroom oblivious that his presentation of "evidence" was looking scantier than victoria's secret - and that he maybe should have looked at some other cases before assuming the cost of a better component and good pricing would therefore add up to a loss leader.
Then you trot out a list of things that to the best of my knowledge are not all things that are on the new motherboard. I know April1 and April2 are not. Here's another thing that was NOT mentioned that you may want to add to your list of expenditures and overhead, that also is not on the new motherboard:
Yes - Genesi got extensive new offices recently! The offices have some new furniture and furnishings and there are some new computers too, I think. And they put new toilet paper in all the bathrooms too.
"- Sidebar!" says the judge, "What the hell does that have to do with Pegasos II being or not being a loss leader?"
And so it goes ; }