66mhz 060's

[MuLTiViEW]

  Whenever you see "EC"  written on any 68020, 030, 040, or 060 it means that CPU has   NO MMU   and NO FPU

 68 EC 020    Has no cache  (also 24 bit data output as opposed to the 32 bit data output of a 68020)
 68 EC 030    Has no MMU

 Beyond this, ALL 68k's were planned to be engineered with FPUs. Of course.....


 68 EC 040  Has no MMU and no FPU

 68 LC 040  Has the MMU added, but no FPU

 68 RC 040  Is the final cookie. Has it all.


 68 EC 060  Like the 040, no MMU, no FPU

 68 LC 060  Has MMU, but no FPU



 I always go by my own personal definitions

 EC = Economy  LC = low class,  RC = Royal Class.

 heheh

 You know,  I read an article lately that mentioned a weakness in some 060's reguarding the FPU.  Something to do with poor pipelining for the FPU circuitry.  
 A lot more "EC060's" were produced with the possible expectation other FPU options could be considered.

 Im currently thinking about making my own A3000 CPU card and have often thought of adding a 68882 to pick up the FPU operations.  
 But I was planning on using a simple "LC040" + the 882.
 Something like 40 mhz 040 and a 50mhz 68882.

 I thought about the same for an 060, but a couple things bothered me.

 1. Speed of the FPU should be equal or faster than the CPU.  Motorola's own recommendations.

 2. 68882 seems to be maxed out at 50mhz. Which so happens to be the minimum speed of the 060.  grrr

 yet another thing.

 3. Most of the 060's made, all the 50mhz versions seem to have the FPU, while more 66mhz versions and 75mhz versions DONT seem to have the FPU.     At least the "available" ones dont.

  I can see two possible solutions to this, but both would involve doing something no one else here but me would be willing to do.

 1. Remake your own 060 card, and use either a PPC's FPU, or a coldfire's internal FPU.

 or

 2. Remake the card, put a socket for a 68882 @50mhz in and try and find one of the latest revisions.   Overclock that thing to 75 mhz or even 100mhz.  Supposedly, and this is a BIG  SUPPOSEDLY,   they really did make 100mhz 882's and stamped them with "50"

 I read this years back about it,  but I don't believe it at all unless someone proves it.
 
 It's probably bogus,  but look at it this way.  If you do get that far.....  you can always buy more and overclock the crap out of them until they die.  
 Such a practice could cause a drought of 882's in the world and they'll be forced to make more faster ones right?

 All a part of my master plan.  Muhahah.

 So get ta overclocking them FPU's today!

 Ok that's the cold medicine talking.
  :-D

[MuLTiViEW]

 keropi:   That is confusing then with the 060.  I admit Im not quite as familiar with the 060 as some of the others.  CPU world didnt seem to have them all listed either.

 

Nope, you're getting addressing/data mixed up..the ec020 has 24bit external addressing, it still has the full 32bit data bus.

Motorola 68EC020
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The 68EC020 is a microprocessor from Motorola. It is a lower cost version of the Motorola 68020, the difference between the two being that the 68EC020 only has a 24-bit address bus, rather than the 32-bit address bus of the full 68020, and thus is only able to address 16MB of RAM.

The 68EC020 was used as the CPU of the Amiga 1200.

 32 bit input, like the 68000
 & 24 bit ouput.

 
 
 As for the discussion of using other FPU in other CPU's over the 68060.  I was on the wave length of a discussion earlier reguarding the 060's "poor pipelining" routines for it's internal FPU.
 So some of those solutions are probably not realisticly obtainable unless there is involved a design which would do this.
 I've been discussing some over the top ideas with people elsewhere on that very matter, and dumbly didn't include the 3 hour chat log of the details leading up to that.  Sorry.

 Interesting however, this thread is.  I would like to know where people are buying 060's at these days. Seems everyone has a different source here and there.

 Also, I would REALLY like to know from the people viewing this topic, how they each cool their 060's.  I mean specificly.  What types of fans and whether or not they used thermal tape or a thermal paste.  
 I've been viewing lots of pages here and there and would like to know what people here do to keep things cool

[MuLTiViEW]

 I've noticed a lot more people using thermal tape as opposed to the paste.

 Any reason why it's better?  Maybe a better consistancy?

[MuLTiViEW]

  Doobrey , maybe the problem of language is at your end.
  Or perhaps we've both misunderstood one another?
 
 

[MuLTiViEW]

>Most of the 060's made, all the 50mhz versions seem to have
>the FPU, while more 66mhz versions and 75mhz versions DONT
>seem to have the FPU. At least the "available" ones dont.

Rev 6 (mask 1E41J) is marked as 50Mhz, but runs quite happily at 80,90 or even 100Mhz. It has a built in FPU.

 The site I was looking at seemed only to sell the fpu-less variety of 060.  My bad for not explaining. There was also a mis-understanding on my part on the "EC" labeling here.

 

> But I was planning on using a simple "LC040" + the 882.
> Something like 40 mhz 040 and a 50mhz 68882.

You can't use a 68881/68882 with a 040 or a 060. Well, you could use it in memorymapped mode, but that's not much point since it is very very slow. Even if you could use in co-processor mode (which you can't), it is so much slower than the built in FPU.

 I don't want to get into an argument on this, so I'll simply say this.  I was "brainstorming out some ideas"  which I had based on a pair of articles I had read either online or from a book.
 One of the articles exclusively explains....   well it's titled:  68040+68882    apparently some early form of accelerators actually used those two chips together.
 But as I tried in vain to find the article and came up short.....
 
 !

 On the other note, I was comparing the idea to using a NON FPU version of the 040 (and possibly the 060 which I am less familiar with).

 Primarily,   the 68  LC  040    which is an "fpu-less"  CPU

 Many of the software I have come across personally has 882 code,  and thus going by another written article, I'm told the 040 has to work harder to process this 882 code. (it reverts to software libraries to process the code.  the slow down hence is what I was focusing on)

 An aquaintance of mine from New Zealand had this to say upon my asking in relation to your comment....

you would just patch the OS to use the extern FPU ...
any hardcoded direct usage within a program would vector to the illegal intruction TrapCall and be vectored to the FPU as well
so technically patching any FPU usage from the CPU at all would revector to the extern FPU
and as the 882 runs Asynch from the CPU you would be able to run a triple-pipeline of operations as long as the FPU ops dont get out of sync to the MCU ops
actually the 040 and 060 keep the cp protocol
they simply dont go external for the internal mapped logic IDs
you CAN use upto 4 external FPUs without problem if you really want
you have to map them as "extra" cps

 In any event, I was only testing the waters of some ideas out, and don't claim to be an 060 expert by a long shot.

[MuLTiViEW]

 One more tidbit of info.  

 The thing that led me thinking about the coldfire - fpu  -wave of thought....

 HERE

 Scan the summary to the 7th item and you'll see...

 

# Floating point unit (FPU)

   * Double-precision implementation of the MC68060 FP ISA
    * Concurrent execution between Operand Execution Pipeline & FPU
    * IEEE-754 compliant

 I couldn't help but to let my imagination get the better of me

[MuLTiViEW]

 Okay, thanks from both of you on that note.  

 Doobrey that is a good page.   Yet another page "bookmarked" for future reference by the donkey  

 I think we better actually stop here, because Ive noticed we are dangerously close (if not already) hijacking a thread.

 Heheh

 But the info is good and I understand some things a bit better anyways.  I really do want to make some boards of my very own, and if I do any, they will probably be for Classic Amigas.  
 I think all Amigans and maybe even some of those Atari users should definitely dabble into designing their own expansion cards.
 Whether or not they intend to sell anything at all, it shouldn't matter.  The Amiga's growth I believe was well stunted, it has some catching up to do and sometimes you have to go backwards before you can go forwards.
 But that is another topic that should be discussed on maybe my own thread.  

 Heh.. sorry zx6r6 .   I really didn't intend on doing any hijacking.  
 I hope they dont start searching me before I get on board a new thread .....    :-P