Os 3.2 development preview

[kolla]

lol

[kolla]

You can set the font in the font prefs, or in the settings of ViNCEd if you use that, so nothing new there. And the scrollbar that is missing is not missing from shell, but from the console, that’s why we tend to replace the console with for example KingCon, or ViNCEd. Why it has been so hard to implement scroll back buffer in the standard console, I don’t know.

[kolla]

Why it has been so hard to implement scroll back buffer in the standard console, I don’t know.

Because the console.device lacks an appropriate interface to reposition its scrollback buffer, and an apropritate interface to get its size, configure its size and report the current position within it. The console.device requires a makeover, but I'm only ready to slay one dragon at a time. 3.1.4 was graphics, 3.2 is dos. The console comes later.

Well, I was thinking "in the bigger picture", as lacking scroll-back buffer was something people complained about, and worked around, even before release 2.0 of AmigaOS (as old Fish disks illustrate). Along with tab-completion, this has probably been the highest ranking "missing feature" for CLI users.

Anyways, since you are into dos, shell etc,  and since there is no way for mere mortals to have ideas about what bugs are known or not - have you fixed bugs in Execute (or shell - who am I to know how this stuff works) since "3.1.4.1"? Or is it on purpose that Execute 46.4 behaves differently when it is used as resident than when it is called as C:Execute?

[kolla]

First, I am currently not aware of bugs in Execute

Well, you are now, I gave you a hint.
I'm not signing any NDA, especially not when it comes to Amiga, and certainly not with Hyperion - there are limits for stupidity.

[kolla]

It was a bug in "list" indeed.

Maybe you can explain another oddity with C:List - this time not a new one - and then decide whether this is desirable behaviour or not.

Open two shells, and in one do...

Code: [Select]

copy * to ram:test
and in the other simply do...

Code: [Select]

list ram:tes?
which works just fine, yet...

Code: [Select]

list ram:test
gives error message about file being busy, as if List tries "open" it, rather than just list it.

Why, oh why - does it perhaps try to "open" it as a drawer first?

[kolla]

Why, oh why - does it perhaps try to "open" it as a drawer first?

No, it just tries to Lock() the argument.

But... why? Or perhaps I should ask... why does it not lock matching files when a wildcard exists in the argument? Does a "list" without argument, or with wildcard argument instead lock the "parent"?

[kolla]

 Well, from a user’s point of view, it’s rather weird that List cannot display information about a specified file, yet do display this information if the very same file matches a specified pattern.

For example, while downloading a file...

this fails:

Code: [Select]

List mydownload.lha
while this works, and you can follow progress in file size:

Code: [Select]

List mydown?oad.lha

[kolla]

S: or DEVS:, or both?

[kolla]

If I open up a partition and then open a drawer.. to have an option to use that same window instead of opening a new window - like dopus magellan does, I think?

DOpus Magellan supports both spatial and browser modes, Workbench is only spatial, but you can configure a qualifier key to hold which makes parent window close as you open a drawer.

Or to have the scrollbars visible only when there's files outside the visible window area. Just takes up unnecessary space. :p

This is a bug, that hopefully should be well known, as it is so darn obvious.

Sort of related - old WBRun can open drawers, the new WBLoad can not. For example from, Workbench menu, Execute Command... "wbrun envarc:sys" will tell Workbench to open the drawer envarc:sys, while "wbload envarc:sys" will just print error message about not finding the file.

[kolla]

This is a bug, that hopefully should be well known, as it is so darn obvious.

I don't think so. First, it has never been any different, and it allows you to continue scrolling even if everything is *currently* visible. For example, to find room for a new icon, even if the window covers the entire screen. I do not see a reason to change this.

Hm - maybe we talk about different things -  For example - drop some icons into RAM:, so many that window is not big enough to show them all, and hence shows scroll bars. Then pick from window menu "select content" and "delete" - after workbench has deleted all icons, the scroll bars still show as if icons outside of visible area are present, and window is still scrollable for no good reason - this did not happen before OS 3.1.4 as far as I can recall. Resizing the window removes the scrollbars and leaves the window "clean" again.

So, use cases are different, and for that reason the programs are different.

Yes, I am aware of this, and this is also the problem, especially when WBLoad is touted as "the new WBRun" and old WBRun is not there  - it is non-obvious and counter-intuitive - WBLoad could check if Workbench is open, and act like WBRun when this is the case.

[kolla]

Besides browser mode, we need Status bars, Control bars, Icon tool bars, Shortcuts, Quick access to recent/most used objects, integrated search, a Navigation/Address bar, a Quit menu entry that actually works, an easier built-in method to customize all menus, MagicMenu functionality, a tree view, and I could go on forever, unfortunately.

Directory Opus Magellan is there to be improved, sources are available - the OS 3.2 team members and Hyperion are welcome to participate and contribute, and it can even be included in the OS release.

[kolla]

Hm - maybe we talk about different things -  For example - drop some icons into RAM:, so many that window is not big enough to show them all, and hence shows scroll bars. Then pick from window menu "select content" and "delete" - after workbench has deleted all icons, the scroll bars still show as if icons outside of visible area are present, and window is still scrollable for no good reason - this did not happen before OS 3.1.4 as far as I can recall. Resizing the window removes the scrollbars and leaves the window "clean" again.

As said, I believe this is intentional. Remove an icon, then scroll to allow adding another.

And when I have no intention of adding any icon, and just want the window to be clean? I don't want to resize it, updating it or redrawing it does not change anything... only option is to close it and reopen. It looks like a bug, it behaves like a bug, and if it is indeed intentional, it is counter-intuitive and confusing.

Yes, I am aware of this, and this is also the problem, especially when WBLoad is touted as "the new WBRun" and old WBRun is not there  - it is non-obvious and counter-intuitive - WBLoad could check if Workbench is open, and act like WBRun when this is the case.

I don't think it is "the new WBRun". It was never supposed to be. It is a "start this program from workbench in the startup-sequence". Actually, WBLoad is a pretty ancient design (from 1.3 days even) and there had and has its use. What WBRun is good for I do not know. As said, rexx exists, the rexx interface exists.

Do you think everyone has RexxMast running?
Do you think everyone knows how to write the rexx macro needed?
Why oh why can't WBLoad just do what one can expect from it?

[kolla]

Again, I don't agree. I believe "do not change the layout if not necessary" is a better option than "do change it, even if the user may or may not need the elements, but we do not know". This is called "the principle of least surprise" - don't mess with the GUI unless triggered externally. Window resizing etc. is requesting a change anyhow, so it does make sense there to perform a re-layout.

OK, whatever - I just found out that what I wrote about refresh/update not working is wrong too, it does refresh window borders.

But I disagree on the principle here - when a window has borders that are scrolled, it indicates that there is something to scroll to, that there is something outside of the view that is now shown.

This is an empty window... or is it... what does your gut say?

Do you think everyone has RexxMast running?

Yes, at least everyone who is advanced enough to have a need for WBRun. I'm still not clear what it is good for.

Easily perform a "double click on the icon" from command line, be it a program, a drawer, a project, a tools - whatever.

Let's be serious: Who needs WBRun to open drawers - despite a hand full of expert users?

Why did you not use this argument when you included shell v46 in the kickstart?
Who needs all the new functionality except a few expert users?

WBRun is part of OS3.9, and who knows... maybe 4.1.

[kolla]

Anyhow, this discussion is mood.

You keep writing this... the word you want to use is "moot".

As for the rest, I roll my eyes... starting to look forward to next time OS 3.1 forks a new fresh, this "branch" is introducing too many obscure limitations and weird behaviour.

[kolla]

A wrapper that checks if Workbench’ arexx port is up, it uses that, if not, it uses WBLoad.
It’s what WBLoad should do already, but whatever.

I’m not publishing jack, any dumbass “expert” can do this themselves, the masses can follow your pipe.

[kolla]

Shell now has the ability to have a partial name of a program or path
autocompleted using the TAB key.

Configurable? Context aware? Programmable? Cycling? Is one character enough?

We have a new shell built-in command called "history" that lists the
contents of the Shell history buffer with the help of the cursor keys.

For many this sounds like a scrollback buffer, which it is not - it's the command line history.

We also added the && operator that first executes the first command,
and if this fails, it aborts. If not, it executes the second command.

Why? Isn't this rather redundant as one can use "If not WARN" instead? Also, just two commands, or can you make a long list of commands separated by &&? And, when you have this kind of "AND", where is "OR"?

Error handling has been improved. We have a functional stderr. So we
can specifically redirect error streams when using the shell.

Great - and how do one redirect from stdout to stderr and vice versa?

There is now also a way to debug commands being executed from the
shell by using the serial port.

Super - though it sucks for those systems that don't have serial port, because "who in this day and age need that?"

The bootmenu got two new checkmark options that reflect on the
behaviour of the shell, and make its advanced options much more simple
to use.

So a new kickstart? What kind of behaviour?
Could early startup please get tab/shift+tab/enter/esc support for easier navigation with keyboard?

The ReAction GUI toolkit does a successful comeback, but now with
extended functionality and an array of bug fixes never seen before.

Because fixing bugs that had already been fixed would be awkward

Due to popular demand, the new intuition.library that allows you to
move windows out of the screen is now built-in by default, that said,
we added an optional fall-back method for those who still use the
unmaintained CyberGraphX RTG system.

Good - I see IControl is updated. This also suggest that there is a new kickstart.

Intuition has the ability to allow windows to be iconified and hidden
and this has been implemented in Workbench programs. An iconification
gadget will be visible to the left of the zoom gadget for this purpose.

What will this gadget do if Workbench is not loaded? Will it even be visible?

You can find scalable gadtools GUIs in most of the Workbench programs.
This means that they have become font sensitive, and properly adjust
to different font sizes. So you are no longer forced to use the default
topaz font on them anymore.

And which font in Font prefs is used? Same as for Window and Screen titles? Or has this been fine masked a little?

IControl now toggles on/off the out of the screen window dragging
abilities of the newly built-in intuition.library.

Yay.

Workbench prefs enables you to customise the text present in the
title bar on the Workbench screen.

Still not possible to hide "NDOS" or other non-validated filesystem devices, like the Ghostbuster patch does?

DefIcons is a program that attempts to identify different file types
and depending on its own configuration, it will apply a default icon
with an associated action to each of them.

Configurable file type definitions?

The RAM-Disk now supports "external hardlinks" and its purpose is
to integrate env-handling features into RAM, and avoid unnecessary
copying of files. This saves memory and makes the system boot
marginally faster.

Without any way of identifying such magic symlinks, I find this an obscurity.
Will be fun to play around with and see how one can confuse and break it though.

The datatype system has been improved: there is a new BMP datatype
that manages Windows/OS2 bitmap images, and an improved text datatype
with search functionality built-in.

Good, though I cannot recall ever using the BMP datatype and would rather see WebP datatype. Does search also work in amiga guides? Can it be programmed in document to do something else than search for text in a guide, for example to trigger a remote search on aminet?

Input.device can now properly manage multiple input events
appropriately, and this essentially means better support for USB
solutions that are aware of this.

Well, who saw that coming - input.device was perfect already for this, someone insisted :rolling eyes:

You will also find several fixes, optimizations and updates that cover
nearly all AmigaOS components, and a few other minor features that are
properly addressed in our FAQ.

Will the Workbench "Find" be "populated" again? Will "Execute command" in Workbench have a history as well? Will there be something akin to RAWBInfo again?