A common attitude with Windows users here

[Arst]

Well well 2k is the most stable OS ms ever made ..and probally will be . XPs memory handling is a nightmare 9x/ME? dont get me started.
I usually say to ppl installing after all the updates to
install XP/2k lite and ripp out WMP/IE/MS java and some other usless crap cluttering the system , and geting a register tool,install the Org Java (by sun) . and sadly the win structure makes to VERY hard to dunderstand what the hell its doing i mean i can figure out alot but im only human after all and like
any other logical human i prefere an Amiga  :-D

[vortexau]

Hammer said

Hammer wrote:

vortexau wrote:
Read I hate MS
  One should remember the Pentium Pro's relatively poor performance with X86-16 code (e.g. MS-DOS/Windows 9x). To solve the problem one should install Windows NT 4.0 this is due to it's 32bit'ness.

I seem to recall a product called- Windows for Workgroups!?  Do not MS produce EACH successive version of their Operating Systems in a manner similar to a house painter?  Who, each 2-3 years, paints it over in a NEW colour?  and, if he does it enough times, the house gets physically larger (even by a paint-application layer) each time - while the underlying structure could just be rotting away?

I have NEVER bought (or built) a Microsoft system!  I have issues with the LACK of integrity of the company - as would I not (knowingly) buy products marketed by mafia or triads!

[Hammer]

I seem to recall a product called- Windows for Workgroups!? Do not MS produce EACH successive version of their Operating Systems in a manner similar to a house painter?
 

MS Windows 3.11 for Workgroups is DOS/Win16 OS (minus Win32s add-on) designed for networks and workgroups, which is useless for non-workgroup setups. MS Windows 3.1 only has very basic networking capabilities. This is called product differentiation. Even commercial Linux distro (e.g. Red Hat) uses this product line concept.

With MS Windows 9X; 32bit calls would be serialised into 16bit calls, while Windows NT doesn’t have this translation overhead (the term for that is “thunking” IF I recall correctly).

In modern terms;
+ MS Windows XP Home Edition (NT.5.1) i.e. for home use; has basic networking capabilities. Single processor support.
+ MS Windows XP Pro Edition (NT5.1) i.e. for business workstations, networked home/small office PC setups, dual processor support and offers basic server functions (e.g. IIS, FTP, SMTP services, print-server, file-server, limited Windows terminal server, and ‘etc’).
+ MS Windows 2003 Server X86-32 (NT5.2) i.e. for server use, +2 processor support, 36bit page addressing, extensive server functions (e.g. Streaming server, Terminal server,  dotNET server, FTP, IIS with management tools, NTmail server, domain controllers and ‘etc’). Comes in several sub-editions.

 

Who, each 2-3 years, paints it over in a NEW colour? and, if he does it enough times, the house gets physically larger (even by a paint-application layer) each time - while the underlying structure could just be rotting away?

Not quite, refer to the Pentium Pro’s weakness and workarounds in relation to Windows NT. This issue somewhat related to the major cropping of X86-16 in AMD64 modes.  

MS Windows NT/2K/XP’s kernel is related more to VMS than Windows 9x’s kernel. Linux X86 with WINE/WINEX is not quite an original concept since Windows NT and OS/2 Warp already travelled through this path.    

I have NEVER bought (or built) a Microsoft system!

That figures...

 I have issues with the LACK of integrity of the company - as would I not (knowingly) buy products marketed by mafia or triads!

Note that IBM was guilty of anti-competitive practises(not until ~1996) just like MS.  

[Hammer]

, and now a lot of Win98 drivers don't work anymore, saying that the drivers are not designed for your hardware.

There are two sets of driver models in Win98 i.e. VXD and WDM. IF it's VXDs then this driver model is dead in Windows 2K/XP/2K3.

The reason for the change from VXD to Win32 Driver Model Drivers...

"A Win32 Driver Model (WDM) driver can run under Windows 98 and future versions of Windows NT. WDM uses a layered architecture in which each layer isolates portions of the services required of a device driver. This design also allows hardware vendors to contain all hardware-specific functionality in a single file. Before WDM, device drivers had to include hooks for a particular operating system in addition to the elements necessary to interact with a specific piece of hardware. This nonlayered approach prevented device drivers from being supported across multiple operating systems". - Chapter 28 - Windows 98 Architecture.

"Minidrivers
Minidrivers were implemented under Windows 95 in the classes of small computer system interface (SCSI) and network adapters. With Windows 98, the concept of minidrivers has been widened to include support for USB, the IEEE 1394 bus, digital audio, DVD players, still imaging, and video capture. Minidrivers either communicate directly with hardware or form the "glue" between two class drivers.

Hardware minidrivers have the following attributes:

They are source-compatible and binary-compatible across platforms, allowing the minidriver to be used in Windows 98 as well as Windows NT.
They are dynamically loaded and unloaded.
They contain only hardware-specific functionality.
They can expose multiple class interfaces. This functionality is very important in respect to multifunction (or composite) cards. Audio and video hardware are typical examples of multifunction devices.
Minidrivers that connect class drivers have the following attributes:

They are source-compatible and binary-compatible across platforms, allowing the minidriver to be used in Windows 98 as well as future versions of Windows NT.
They are dynamically loaded and unloaded.
They indirectly control hardware through a specific bus class driver.
An example of a "bridging" minidriver is Hidusb.sys. This Human Interface Device (HID) class minidriver translates HID I/O into request packets that are understood by the USB class driver (Usbd.sys). "  - Chapter 28 - Windows 98 Architecture.

[B00tDisk]

MS Windows 3.11 for Workgroups is DOS/Win16 OS (minus Win32s add-on) designed for networks and workgroups, which is useless for non-workgroup setups.  

 Win3.11 worked just fine without being on a network.  It was the first version of MS Windows I used, and for what it was worth it worked okay.  Not great, just okay.

Or are you saying the networking add-ons were useless for a non-workgroup setup (which kinda goes without saying)?

[Hammer]

Win3.11 worked just fine without being on a network. It was the first version of MS Windows I used, and for what it was worth it worked okay. Not great, just okay.

My first Windows I use was MS Windows 3.0 (not including OS/2 which was bundled with IBM PS/2 Model 56). I then went through to Windows 3.1, Windows 3.11 for Workgroups and ‘etc’.

Or are you saying the networking add-ons were useless for a non-workgroup setup (which kinda goes without saying)?

It’s quite useless due to the dominance of Novell at that time.

[B00tDisk]

Hammer wrote:

Or are you saying the networking add-ons were useless for a non-workgroup setup (which kinda goes without saying)?

It’s quite useless due to the dominance of Novell at that time.

Ah.  That makes sense.

[Glaucus]

Win3.11 worked just fine without being on a network. It was the first version of MS Windows I used, and for what it was worth it worked okay. Not great, just okay.

Yes, and back then AmigaOS was also a viable option, and in all fairness, Amiga royally stomped Windows3.11's ass!  :-D

  - Mike

[A4000Bear]

Hammer,

The slow XP boot was on my old PC - an Asus A7V266 m/b with an Athlon XP1800 CPU. Windows was XP professional, SP1. No unusual hardware in the PC, no other software of any description installed. Settings were default (it was exhibiting the problem on first boot after installation)

Windows would come up in about 30 secs, however, if I tried to launch anything - or even shut it down immediately, I had to wait about 3-5 minutes before anything happened. During the wait, there was no hard drive access. After the wait period expired, there was some hard drive activity, then the selected application would launch. Subsequent attempts to launch applications would be normal, with no wait period.

Now that I have a USB flashcard reader on my A4000, I no longer have a need for Windows, and I have since broken that PC up for parts. The only operable PC I now have is a Bridgeboard in my A4000, which is used only for burning EPROMS.

Maybe I have some sort of "aura" when it comes to PCs - I just have to look at one and it will crash!