MorphOS Milestone: 2000+ licenses sold

[OlafS3]

Exactly, I use Windows for work as many I suppose, Mac at home and while I did all the settings you spoke about in the old days (I even wrote the first program that remove borders around icons, because I didn't like them, check Aminet). Now I'm maybe too old to do that kind of things, it's the same as configuring computers, repairing them, same for the OS, I'm kind of lazy today, it doesn't interest me anymore. I just expect things to work well. Even a friend of mine tried the Amiga recently using a Raspberry PI and he didn't remember how to use one and was surprised that the UI didn't evolved since 3.1. (again first contact). One thing also that make me hold back buying Morphos and I can't explain it, is the fact that AmigaOS 4 is an evolution of the "real" Amiga OS. It's kind of important to me that code and design from Mike Sinz, RJ Mical, Andy Finkel, Dale Luck, Randell Jesup etc is present there because they were our gods.  You tend to minimize the importance of the first impression.   One more thing, developers are vital and good documentation is the first step, wiki.amigaos.net seems to be the way to go, it seems that http://library.morphzone.info/Main_Page is not as complete but I might be wrong. Kamelito

that kind of "heritage" seems to be important to the "AmigaOS" community, as the used themes, icons and naming. But it is not important to the outside. I had contact to former amiga developers who were very disappointed about the direction AmigaOS took and left the community (one even warned me to start with amiga and said he is more happy now without). If these visual elements and old sources are all AmigaOS will have no future.

[takemehomegrandma]

Some notes:

they show MorphOS team ability to survive in times left with no hardware company beneath.

As does most OS's, except perhaps MacOS.

As I tried to discuss above, going the Acube/Aeon route would have put MorphOS in a much worse position than what it is today. The problem isn't lack of HW, the problem is PPC and a dead architecture. But the MorphOS team surely made the most out of what was available. Soon there isn't anything more worth supporting.

you :should have a boxed one, with manual

Completely unnecessary. Only makes it more expensive and doesn't bring any real additional value.

and a bit preconfigured for the machine (even its seen as weakness :-)

I think you misinterpreted my above answer to kamelito — of course MorphOS is configured to run on the machines it supports!

SAM 460 port could be first one for team to do so?

The fact that OS4 users are prone to pay sh!tloads of money for OS4 stuff (HW, OS, boxes with boing balls etc) doesn't automatically mean they are willing to pay similar amounts for an expensive cardboard box with printed manual for MorphOS. After all, it isn't "teh reel!!1!" and doesn't have a boing ball slapped on it.

That will give presentable MOS product as such - not just Amigan geek thing.

Amiga geeks are the only ones interested in MorphOS in its current incarnation.

Having cheaper Acube products needs only higher volumes - something MOS can contribute

Volumes are so low in Acube products anyway that a MorphOS port couldn't do a thing to improve economy of scale. To be able to lower price thanks to economy of scale, you need mass production in China and bulk purchasing of components in tens of thousands. I don't see how a MorphOS port could have that kind of result on Acube sales.

eventually introducing some dual core high end replacement

Amiga is single core only. It can't be anything else (except through asymmetric multi processing, which isn't really that useful for general usage). If MorphOS would introduce true SMP, then Amiga compatibility has to be broken anyway, so why bother with PPC at all at that point? Why not go to a HW architecture that still has a pulse?  Besides, MorphOS already runs on dual CPU HW (single core, of course).

that would bring SAM 460 as total OS4 low end, effectively replacing 440 (kind of what Flex did to integrated  EP niodel).

Everything "Sam" is very low end...

Eventually it might become only cheaper, it can hardly be more expensive (for end users).

That's what I and most people thought as well a few years ago. Then came A-eon and proved everyone wrong! :lol:

It will end blue - red war in nice fashion, OS4 port for Peg2 did.

Funny that they only released OS4 for Pegasos 2 after it had reached EOL (I know for a fact that OS4 was running on the Peg2 long before it was released), when it could no longer help sales or grow the Peg2 community. Anyway, OS4 users could only buy Pegasos 2 as second hand HW. Think about that, you "but-it's-not-new-HW" crybabies! :lol:

Enable people to use both if they want. In such regards until x86 or ARM transition is done also SAM 440 (not to hard to derive from SAM 460 port since CPU is same)

The CPU is absolutely not the same, and neither is anything else. Sam440 may be faster than an Efika5k2, but it's still only "G2" class HW thus it's not very useful. The Efika5k2 (while having some quirks, oddities and bottle necks) at least have the quite big advantage of costing only $99. MorphOS already supports that, if you are interested in that kind of low power HW. And it can still be bought as new. But few people ought to be interested in that type of HW so I can't see how it would be worth the effort.

and even X1000 should be kept as viable targets.
Even those systems are expensive, they already have some customers (250 OS4 users) that could be added

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of those 250 OS4 users also has a MorphOS system today. Running on a cheap Mac. There are a lot more "dual users" than many seems to think. They aren't always making a lot of fuss about it though.

and offer PCI-E, SATA and other modern standards often beyond Mac

Here we go again! :rolleyes:

SATA isn't anything magic or anything "milestone"-alike, and MorphOS already supports a SATA card for those who need one. And PCI-E is just a freakin' bus, there is no magic or "milestone" there either! The day the MorphOS team decides to support a motherboard that is using a PCI-E controller, then they will simply write support for that controller, just like they always do with all the other controllers on all the other motherboards they decides to support. No magic involved, no "technology milestones". And certainly no X1000 is needed for anything.

and there aren`t 2005 performers.

The PA6T is the most powerful of them all, and it performs on par with (or slightly below) 2005 level G4 Mac's.

[vox]

As does most OS's, except perhaps MacOS.

I am not aware any OS had such long as difficult history as AmigaOS/MorphOS. That is our specialty :-)

As I tried to discuss above, going the Acube/Aeon route would have put MorphOS in a much worse position than what it is today. The problem isn't lack of HW, the problem is PPC and a dead architecture. But the MorphOS team surely made the most out of what was available. Soon there isn't anything more worth supporting
Completely unnecessary. Only makes it more expensive and doesn't bring any real additional value.

Its not dead, just not price/performant and would not be even if PPC Macs were new and avail HW (do people remember how these used to cost when they were new?)

I agree taking Mac route was better choice seen in user numbers, but why not exploiting only availiable route until PPC is left behind, and that is AEON/ACube? Especially if its well known these companies do support it (not in paying for port but would be in promoting it and giving hardware)

The fact that OS4 users are prone to pay sh!tloads of money for OS4  stuff (HW, OS, boxes with boing balls etc) doesn't automatically mean  they are willing to pay similar amounts for an expensive cardboard box  with printed manual for MorphOS. After all, it isn't "teh reel!!1!" and  doesn't have a boing ball slapped on it.

Your choice in digital age, but again, having actual physcial copy does not hurt either. Its not gonna mass sell, but surely users would buy it together with SAM460 or for collectors / having physical copies.

Call me old fashioned, but I still do buy CDs/Vynils and not mp3s. If I do need an mp3 I ll encode it on my own. Same goes for software avail in physical copies.

Amiga geeks are the only ones interested in MorphOS in its current incarnation.

And that would be the reason more to go for those 250 OS4 users.
Most of them would try it and likely most of those who try would buy it if it would be avail for their SAMs/X1000

Volumes are so low in Acube products anyway that a MorphOS port couldn't  do a thing to improve economy of scale. To be able to lower price  thanks to economy of scale, you need mass production in China and bulk  purchasing of components in tens of thousands. I don't see how a MorphOS  port could have that kind of result on Acube sales.

True in overall, but having more 50 or 100 orders could create another volume that would cost a bit less, even in present low scale economy.

Amiga is single core only. It can't be anything else (except through  asymmetric multi processing, which isn't really that useful for general  usage). If MorphOS would introduce true SMP, then Amiga compatibility  has to be broken anyway, so why bother with PPC at all at that point?  Why not go to a HW architecture that still has a pulse?  Besides,  MorphOS already runs on dual CPU HW (single core, of course).

Wasn`t that (breaking away AmigaOS chains and SMP) one of original MorphOS goals that would eventually be met with x86/ARM transition?

Surely most effort should be put to it, but its a long road to go.

Everything "Sam" is very low end...

Well its a system on chip concenpt, never ment to be a killer.
But is in between Efika and Peg2, which most of users would find
satisfactory (as well as they do work OK on less optimized OS4)

That's what I and most people thought as well a few years ago. Then came A-eon and proved everyone wrong! :lol:

No, but even MOS users could agree it gave a new pulse to OS4 community. Trevor is doing great job there, sadly OS4 development is not on pair with his efforts.

Funny that they only released OS4 for Pegasos 2 after it had reached EOL  (I know for a fact that OS4 was running on the Peg2 long before it was  released), when it could no longer help sales or grow the Peg2  community. Anyway, OS4 users could only buy Pegasos 2 as second hand HW.  Think about that, you "but-it's-not-new-HW" crybabies! :lol:

Well, you may take that perspective, but do remember AOS4 had big hustle and almost prevention of release for SAM by Amiga Inc strict AmigaOne/PowerUp license and restrictions in AmigaOne branding - something MOS team never had (not that Genesi played great, but ...)

The CPU is absolutely not the same, and neither is anything else.

Not in full SOCC/board terms, but in CPU terms they are.
Its basically 440 with better northbridge and higher clock and cache.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of those 250 OS4 users  also has a MorphOS system today. Running on a cheap Mac. There are a lot  more "dual users" than many seems to think. They aren't always making a  lot of fuss about it though.

I do know only of Trevor - presumably people that already had PPC Mac.
I was tempted to buy G5 Mac just for that cause, but it slipped me on auctioning.

SATA isn't anything magic or anything "milestone"-alike, and MorphOS  already supports a SATA card for those who need one. And PCI-E is just a  freakin' bus, there is no magic or "milestone" there either! The  day the MorphOS team decides to support a motherboard that is using a  PCI-E controller, then they will simply write support for that  controller, just like they always do with all the other controllers on  all the other motherboards they decides to support. No magic involved,  no "technology milestones". And certainly no X1000 is needed for  anything.

Surely, but all Macs but last G5 models and PegsII (mainly g4 processors) were tied to north/south bridge combination that provided only
AGP/PCI/IDE. This kind of expandability is performance step forward in same way as CPU class is.

Why not starting with that high end G5 and SAM 460?
RadeonHD route seems to be natural route for MorphOS too.

The PA6T is the most powerful of them all, and it performs on par with (or slightly below) 2005 level G4 Mac's.

As far as I do remember, G4 2Ghz was faster then PA Semi 1.8Ghz single core (a bit on 20% higher frequency anyway) and decent test on Linux that would use both cores, were never presented. I will try to do some when I do get my paid X1000.

I`m not saying some of the choices were wrong - in fact they aren`t, but your most likely closest market is actually OS4 one. Why not taking a bite there too?

[EDanaII]

Go MorphOS! The Amiga solution hobbyists can actually afford!

(And this is not a slam against AROS, as I have machines for both.) But profit is incentive for work to progress and AROS, as an open source solution, has less reason to move forward.

Keep up the good work, guys.

[OlafS3]

Go MorphOS! The Amiga solution hobbyists can actually afford!

(And this is not a slam against AROS, as I have machines for both.) But profit is incentive for work to progress and AROS, as an open source solution, has less reason to move forward.

Keep up the good work, guys.

I gratulate MorphOS team too

(I take it as sign of honor that people now all the time compare it to AROS :-) ).

[EDanaII]

Well, to be honest, AROS' greatest strength is it's wealth of available platforms. It's greatest weakness, OTOH, is that it is open source. MHO, of course. To me, the difference is that open source gets done it gets done, whereas for profit gets done _when it's needed,_ although not always as well as open source. Now, not to dis MorphOS, but if AROS were for profit, we'd probably have as good a solution -- including 68k compatibility-- as MorphOS and many more licenses...

[OlafS3]

Well, to be honest, AROS' greatest strength is it's wealth of available platforms. It's greatest weakness, OTOH, is that it is open source. MHO, of course. To me, the difference is that open source gets done it gets done, whereas for profit gets done _when it's needed,_ although not always as well as open source. Now, not to dis MorphOS, but if AROS were for profit, we'd probably have as good a solution -- including 68k compatibility-- as MorphOS and many more licenses...

that is offtopic again

but to respond... to say that AROS is less advanced/progressed as MorphOS is generally said not true. It is true that both OSs have their strength and weaknesses and there are differences regarding 68k integration (that are unavoidable). What the MorphOS team members always understood is that it is more important to have a stable, bugfree OS with a decent desktop to "sell" it (motivate people to use it). On Opensource "selling" it is not that important, instead people implemented features they wanted to have like MESA/Gallium. Desktop was always the weakest point but that will be solved with Magellan. So we should talk again after Magellan used as base for the distributions in a couple of months.

[EDanaII]

Honestly, Olaf? I don't think we're disagreeing at all. All you've done is spell out what I'm effectively saying: both have their strengths and both have their weaknesses.

That said, I don't want to detract from this thread too much either. The fact is, MorphOS is a excellent Amiga solution and their smartest move was to make it available for old Mac hardware, which is exactly why I'm counted among the 2k licenses they've sold so far. Good job, guys.

[takemehomegrandma]

And that would be the reason more to go for those 250 OS4 users.
Most of them would try it and likely most of those who try would buy it if it would be avail for their SAMs/X1000

I actually think it's fair to believe that many of them is *already* using MorphOS. The number of MorphOS licenses isn't the only thing that has grown, there has been plenty of new users as well (there are many signs of that). And because it's basically a zero sum game within the already existing population, it can only mean that many OS4 users are now (also) MorphOS users. It's cheap and easy to become a MorphOS user. No need for Sam/X1000 support. It's also the only way to use a laptop or more powerful HW. Superior diversity, ultra low cost, highest performance available, best Amiga compatibility, and the development actually still going on and moving forward; you can only ignore that for so long!

True in overall, but having more 50 or 100 orders could create another volume that would cost a bit less, even in present low scale economy.

No. 50 or 100 orders can't do that.

Well its a system on chip concenpt, never ment to be a killer.

It was never meant to be used in a desktop context, period. Not even back when it was made.

No, but even MOS users could agree it gave a new pulse to OS4 community.

Eh no, it didn't. What it did was helping MorphOS going through the 2000 licenses barrier! :p

As far as I do remember, G4 2Ghz was faster then PA Semi 1.8Ghz single core

Then we clearly remember differently; what I remember is that a standard 2005 Powerbook G4 1,67GHz laptop beat the X1000 with margin.

But it doesn't matter and I don't care, this is about MorphOS, and the X1000 is utterly irrelevant.

[klx300r]

Then we clearly remember differently; what I remember is that a standard 2005 Powerbook G4 1,67GHz laptop beat the X1000 with margin.

But it doesn't matter and I don't care, this is about MorphOS, and the X1000 is utterly irrelevant.

sure but to be fair, let's not forget those so called 'tests' were only using one core of the X1000.

[nicholas]

sure but to be fair, let's not forget those so called 'tests' were only using one core of the X1000.

As OS4 can only use.

That argument makes no sense, it's like saying "MorphOS benchmark isn't accurate as it only used one core of a 2.7GHz Dual Processor G5".

Both OS's are single core so of course any test will only use one core.

A dual CPU G4 PowerMac would still beat the dual core X1000 on a multi threaded Linux benchmark.

[takemehomegrandma]

sure but to be fair, let's not forget those so called 'tests' were only using one core of the X1000.

Amiga is a single core OS, so yes.

Besides, there are a few dual core/CPU machines available for MorphOS with more dual-power than the X1000.

[klx300r]

Amiga is a single core OS, so yes.

Besides, there are a few dual core/CPU machines available for MorphOS with more dual-power than the X1000.

true for now but hopefully we (all flavours) get dual core support:)

[smerf]

Another part of the Apple invasion into the Amiga market which Steve Jobs started some 20 odd years ago. They just keep on trying.

@fishy fiz,

You are correct sir, I tried it, and somewhat like what I see, but face it, $200 for a OS that is still being developed, is about $151 more than Micro soft windows 8.

For that $49 that I spent for Windows 8, there is support for the computer that I am using if needed. I can buy just about any PC I want to use, and best of all there is software development and game development for it, and I don't have to wait 10 years for it to come out. GREAT STUFF.

[Iggy]

Yeah Smurf,
But none of my money went into Bill Gates' pocket.
And my iBook was less than $100 on eBay.

BTW - I'm not a big Apple fan either.
But on the used market, their old hardware is cheap and works well.

[klx300r]

You are correct sir, I tried it, and somewhat like what I see, but face it, $200 for a OS that is still being developed, is about $151 more than Micro soft windows 8.

For that $49 that I spent for Windows 8, there is support for the computer that I am using if needed. I can buy just about any PC I want to use, and best of all there is software development and game development for it, and I don't have to wait 10 years for it to come out. GREAT STUFF.

yes but the point is that by buying a legit copy of MorphOS or AmigaOS4.x or using AROS (since it's already free) your supporting the current Amiga market & that's the main reason why most of us are here after all