**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

Fine.

Have you already tried to find documentation/manual of your bridgeboard on the web?

There the "mystery" should be explained...

As we don`t know how your bridgeboard works all we could do is guessing, which mostly leads to nowhere.

Best idea is to get the manual and see if and how the HD can be used from the PC side.

Yes, I have the Full Bridgeboard install Guide (SCANNED PAPER ENGLISH COPY), the link is above in post.
THERE A GERMAN Electronic Version for your SPARE TIME READING http://l8r.net/technical/a2088.html (Look at the Appendix, that is where I am stuck "FDISK/ADISK")
I have done all the steps required, and the one step not working is the FDISK that should pick up the FIXED disk (PC DOS). or ADISK (AMIGA OS).

Nothing more can be done beyond that point in the manual.

[wbrejnia]

Fine.
The startup-sequence of this "special bootdisk" floppy for OS 3.1 looked like this:
;run system/cli
;add32bit-special resetfest
;setcpu cache burst fastrom config 2 trap 2
fastmemfirst
addbuffers >nil: df0: 35
addbuffers >nil: df1: 35
boilexists
IF WARN
boilchipmodule devs/boil.device 1 > nil:
boilchipmodule devs/nucleus003.device 1 > nil:
ENDIF
boilmount
addbuffers >nil: dh0: 35
;addbuffers >nil: _dh0: 35
addbuffers >nil: dh1: 35
movesys dh0:
dh0:c/execute dh0:s/startup-sequence

When I switched on the Amiga with the Bootdisk in a flppy drive, it started to boot the floppy and after a few seconds the HDs spun up and the complete Amiga operating system booted from HD.

I just got a copy of the Bridgeboard DOS diskette very recently.

My current DOS boot disk is very plain (just a command.com)

But the Bridgeboard DOS diskette does have some more files (not many, but all files are shown in screenshot above). They might do something similar to your boot disk setup.

What I haven't tried it creating a "config.sys" file to include running some additional commands possible (like emm.sys). One in particular is a command "bbsetup.com". A statement like "device=bbsetup.com" can be added and see what happens. (This is not mentioned in the BB manual, but possibly the disk that Came with the BB had this in place).

BUT I DID TRY RUNING THE BBSETUP.COM manually, and it loads the Janus drivers[and hangs system].
(Displays the SAME MESSAGE that shows normally before the DOS boot), so my guess this triggers Code thru the BB BIOS (already/somehow. So may not be needed TWICE).
However (what if the BBSETUP is the DOS version of the JANUS library, and the two (DOS/AMIGA) need to JOIN together).
I will try this too very soon.

FROM WHAT I RESEARCHED, there are more manuals/book for the JANUS specific stuff. I don't have that.
 My guess is those books are for developers, but I could be wrong.

[wbrejnia]

Fine.
The startup-sequence of this "special bootdisk" floppy for OS 3.1 looked like this:
fastmemfirst
addbuffers >nil: df0: 35
addbuffers >nil: df1: 35
boilexists
IF WARN
boilchipmodule devs/boil.device 1 > nil:
boilchipmodule devs/nucleus003.device 1 > nil:
ENDIF
boilmount
addbuffers >nil: dh0: 35
;addbuffers >nil: _dh0: 35
addbuffers >nil: dh1: 35
movesys dh0:
dh0:c/execute dh0:s/startup-sequence

Interesting. Darkage mentioned the increase Buffer DISK config in a previous post.
And the fact that (addbuffers) POINTS to hard drives might be very important.

In DOS the command is "BUFFERS", and also goes into config.sys
http://web.csulb.edu/~murdock/buffers.html

And more INTERESTING. There is also a command called "SYSTEM.com" on that BB DOS package.
I didn't list it in my screenshot, since it didn't fit into by 640K floppy (I added other programs like debug)\
It may be the same a your movesys .

This is starting to look like a Proper DOS DISK needs to be configured and booted from!!!  (Not 100% conclusive but possible)

Dandy, you have provided excellent information with you sample startup.

[wbrejnia]

ABOUT Points in two Posts above [ Amiga PC DOS Boot DISK ].

Yes, creation of a new DOS boot diskette is worth a try.  It is need for a new install.

However if the DOS side had a booting PC DOS HARD DRIVE then this would not be needed. (I am 99.99% sure, I didn't have a 5.25" Floppy sitting in my Drive to boot my Amiga).

[wbrejnia]

However if the DOS side had a booting PC DOS HARD DRIVE then this would not be needed. (I am 99.99% sure, I didn't have a 5.25" Floppy sitting in my Drive to boot my Amiga).

THERFORE A CREATION OF A (PROPER) BOOTABLE FLOPPY (if things fit) or a (RAM DRIVE - If Things Fit) might ENABLE to AMIGA to boot off the HARD DISK.
 
 That is why the Aread or Awrite might be also needed.
 
 Time to read beyond the FDISK (STALL point) in the BB Manual.

[wbrejnia]

TODAY'S TRIP to the (SURPLUS STORE) for a ISA Controller-Hard Drive ** AMAZING FIND**

I almost decide to got ahead a purchase the 8bit LO-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter that Pat suggested.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Assembled-Tested-Working-Lo-tech-ISA-CompactFlash-Adapter-IDE-for-8-Bit-PCs-/282312406702?hash=item41bb2176ae:g:9HYAAOSwL7VWoBxq

Everything might be easier knowing I have something that works.

However for the price and wait I decided to head to a Electronic Surplus store (With hope to find a Old HD Controller with a Drive) .
The store nearby went out of business to it was a bit of a drive, but worth the trip.

Typical Warehouse Building on the outside.


Inside the FRONT OF STORE has Lots of Gizmos and Parts.


Store has Rows of Every Electronic Part Needed.


Things are organized in many section and I started searching for Computer Parts.


I finally found the section I was looking for.


I dug around for a Long while and found nothing. I gave up after cutting my hand digging deep into the pile.

Came across an interesting Ancient Telephone tester.


THEN ON THE WAY OUT, as if it was meant to be, I saw a book sitting there. That I immediately recognized.



That book is THE BOOK I BASED my University Graducting Project on. The Universal Prom Programmer which CORE was the (MC68705 CPU).

I spend some time flipping through pages which brought back memories of the whole year of designing and building. IT WAS TOTALLY GRATIFYING.

After that, I'm not so much concerned about the Paper on the Hard Drive.

MY QUEST IS OVER !! The Hard Drive and the School Paper.....(which is the whole reason I started this THREAD).




What cool, is I also got the parts for the Replacement Amiga Battery that I cut out . Plus some handy tweezer, ALL for under $20.



 
 - SO I'll STILL CONTINUE the REBUILD EFFORTS (Workbench, Dos Side, etc)
- NO LONGER SO CONCERNED about FORMATTING THE HARD DRIVE to get that School Paper. (but will hold off till no other option)

Time to finish the Amiga, one way or another.

[darkage]

Theres some great surplus stores in Nth America..   Not much here in Australia.

I saw this on the train from work today, a different homebrew card -  ISA to IDE  

https://twitter.com/lazygamereviews/status/826243842059927553

btw - Lazy Game Reviews on youtube is one of my favourites.

Card Creators website http://www.glitchwrks.com/2016/07/06/xt-ide-rev3

[Dandy]

...
I still don't understand what BOIL is. HW/SW, can you explain a bit more?

Boil stands for Bootable  OMTI  Interface  Loader and is(was) a commercial harddisk driver software for the Amiga dating back to roughly 1988 (Boil v3 is from 1993).

It made an standard OMTI MFM/RLL controller from PC/XT accessible from an Amiga. You had to enter the disk geomety information there (number of cylinders, sectors, heads and so on).

On the "English Amiga Board" I found some hints for Boil usge  (posting #7). For more information I would have to look for a readme file on my Boil3 floppy disk at home this afternoon...

BTW, interesting Website (in your footnote). My wife is from German Family and just visited Germany this summer with one of my children. I'm Polish background, so a visit to Europe to show the 3 kids, would be easy to cover both parent's heritage since countries are side by side.

Yeah, but unfortunately our original website had been hacked (due to outdated CMS version) last summer  and infected with "malicious scripts" - therefore our provider disabled the access to the old content.

So we had to install the latest version of our Content Management System, which is said to be without this security gap. But as the new version was not fully backward compatible, we had to start from the scatch and still have to migrate the old content and to adapt it to the new CMS version manually. Unfortunately I'm just responsible for translating from German and maintaining the English page - so I don't have access to the old stuff on our webspace. My colleage is the only person with access to the webspace itself, while I just have an admin account in the CMS. So I have to wait for him to make the old stuff accessible for me. I had intended to do a lot of this work during my xmas holidays (5 weeks) - but he didn't migrate a single article and so I couldn't do anything. Bummer!

We're in close collaboration with a railway museum nearby our line and they have a historic train hauled by a little, 102-year-old steam locomotive called 'Waldbröl'. Our society has a railcar from the 1950s, currently in general inspection.
This joint venture of the 'Dieringhausen Railway Museum' and our 'Society For The Preservation Of The Wiehltalbahn' is called Bergischer Löwe.

B.T.W. - my father was born nearby Opole (Silesia) - so one part of my roots is also there where today is Poland...

[wbrejnia]

I saw this on the train from work today, a different homebrew card - ISA to IDE

https://twitter.com/lazygamereviews/status/826243842059927553

Cool, but I won't be building one due to a mistake on my behalf.

Yesterday when I was on Ebay considering to buy the "8bit LO-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter ", I backed off at the Paypal point to go instead to surplus store.

I didn't realize I clicked on BUY IT NOW, and was committed to paying, till this morning.

So as a honest Ebay customer, I just completed the transition and completed the payment.

The 8bit LO-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter is on it's way.

I have to be careful in the future.

HOWEVER the good news is I did more reading, many things:

- I learned about how there are differences between WB1.2 and WB1.3 and how MOUNTLISTS work (WB1.2 was central MOUNT LIST DRIVEN, while WB1.3 has the MOUNTS in DEVS/DOSDrivers)
- I also researched and found out what the STORAGE FLOPPY has for WB 1.3 (HDToolbox) which is more for and AMIGA Side HARD Drive
- These MOUNTLIST entries for AMIGA side take care of HD Characteristic in detail, but the a BRIDGEBOARD connected (PC Drive) the mount is a SIMPLE "Mount JH0:" via JANUS Library

Thus I will go thru all my original WB floppies, but am pretty sure that the FDISK and ADISK on the PC side should have taken care of the C: drive (DOS/ADOS) partitions whichever exist.

In other words, the 8bit LO-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter will be quite handy to figure things out.

[wbrejnia]

Since I'm stuck with the ISA/IDE adapter, I'm thinking about getting a IDE/SD card like below.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231881879210?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Not that expensive, but it will get me all setup on the Amiga PC side.
 
 There are Compact Flash and SD versions.    I have a few old CF cards 4,32,256MB.  For SD I have larger sizes.
 
 Is there an possible PROBLEM using the Larger SD version for the A2000?  (Like with FDISK not like a 1GB SD)

[Dandy]

Yes, I have the Full Bridgeboard install Guide (SCANNED PAPER ENGLISH COPY), the link is above in post.

Still have to look for it...

THERE A GERMAN Electronic Version for your SPARE TIME READING http://l8r.net/technical/a2088.html

Ahh - very interesting. Have you seen this:

...
Floppy Disks: Supports up to 2 standard PC floppy disk drives:

5.25" Drives: 360KB (Comes standard with 360KB drive)
3.5" Drives: 720KB (Uses Amiga external floppies drives on the external floppy connector)
...

No harddrive mentioned...makes me think...if there is an M$-Dos partition on the harddrive at all...

(Look at the Appendix, that is where I am stuck "FDISK/ADISK")

At the "GERMAN Electronic Version" link is no "Appendix" - what do you mean with that?

I have done all the steps required, and the one step not working is the FDISK that should pick up the FIXED disk (PC DOS). or ADISK (AMIGA OS).

Hum - should the PC-XT on the bridgeboard really support no harddrives on the M$-Dos side I`m not surprised that `fdisk` does not work...

Nothing more can be done beyond that point in the manual.

Still have to find this manual and the `Appendix`...

[Pat the Cat]

Since I'm stuck with the ISA/IDE adapter, I'm thinking about getting a IDE/SD card like below.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231881879210?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Not that expensive, but it will get me all setup on the Amiga PC side.
 
 There are Compact Flash and SD versions.    I have a few old CF cards 4,32,256MB.  For SD I have larger sizes.
 
 Is there an possible PROBLEM using the Larger SD version for the A2000?  (Like with FDISK not like a 1GB SD)

There is a problem with any media drives you connect via ISA - you only have 8 bit ISA, and usually that is bottlenecked by the way the two sides talk to each other.

Max boot partition recommended is what, 2 GB on 1.3? Probably same on 1.2. You can go for 4gb but it's not recommended.

It doesn't really matter if you got spare IDE drives, they'll still be throttled slow. Getting a card reader as well doesn't really get you much. Not with ISA. See how an IDE hard drive does, you won't be impressed.

As for Poles, went to school with a few characters called Durcaz, Prsbilski, Kovacs, Burkovich, etc. One of the Polish diplomats sent their kid there too. That was back when the Iron Curtain was still raised.

Boil stands for Bootable  OMTI  Interface  Loader and is(was) a commercial harddisk driver software for the Amiga dating back to roughly 1988 (Boil v3 is from 1993).

It made an standard OMTI MFM/RLL controller from PC/XT accessible from  an Amiga. You had to enter the disk geomety information there (number of  cylinders, sectors, heads and so on).

On the "English Amiga Board" I found some hints for Boil usge  (posting #7). For more information I would have to look for a readme file on my Boil3 floppy disk at home this afternoon...

Yes, this makes sense. Idea was you could access generic PC peripherals like hard disk standards. I NEVER reviewed a Bridgeboard that way, I think. I seem to remember always having an Amiga side Zorro connected hard drive partition setup with a DOS filesystem. I Don't seem to remember using a PC hard disk as such, deal was you could go either route, and I rarely had cause to enter a PC magazine office to ask if I could blag one. (Ahem). They probably had, happy to lend, I just didn't need to ask.

[Dandy]

...
No harddrive mentioned...makes me think...if there is an M$-Dos partition on the harddrive at all...
...

The same at http://bboah.amiga-resistance.info/cgi-bin/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=328:
"This card may have been supplied with a 360K 5.25" floppy drive however the card can also use a real external Amiga floppy drive, to read 720K DOS disks."

From the schematics at your "GERMAN Electronic Version" link I`m beginning to understand:
- The Amiga 2000 has Zorro-II slots and ISA-slots (pre-PCI age) on the motherboard (partially in line).
- The card plugs into both a Zorro slot and an ISA slot and so allows you to use real 8bit ISA cards in the ISA slots of your A2000, which are disabled by default and can only be activated and `linked` to the Amiga`s Zorro bus by a "bridgeboard" (hence the name). This allows you to use a MFM ISA controller card with MFM harddrive in your Amiga.
- According to the German Amiga wiki (http://www.amigawiki.de/doku.php?id=de:expansion:other:a2088xt), the German Commodore engineers in Braunschweig designed the PC/XT on the bridgeboard strictly in line with the original IBM 8088 XT/PC specifications.

And as far as I remember, the original IBM 8088 XT/PC only had two 5 1/4 360 kB floppy disk drives by default - no harddrive. That means you cannot use a harddrive with the XT/PC on your A2088XT bridgeboard - just the Amiga can access the drive via the bridgeboard and the MFM controller in the ISA slot.

Therefore I do not believe there is any M$-Dos related stuff on your drive - just Amiga stuff, I`d say...

Sorry for the bad news...

[wbrejnia]

Still have to find this manual and the `Appendix`...

These are the two Bridgeboard Guides on the NET (thanks to Darkage in post above)
-
The PDF Scan of the Original Paper Bridgeboard Manuals(One German and One English - with the Appedix and FDISK)
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt (On this site you can also get the BB disks images)


Here is the AmigaOS Manual (where I read about the MOUNTLISTS and where they are placed, and Read at Boot time.)
http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/AmigaOS_Manual:_AmigaDOS_Additional_Amiga_Directories

I am pretty sure PC Side supports Hard disks.

But here is what I was looking at that caught my attention. I think this a MountList on the AMIGA side (ONLY), for a HDD on Amiga Side, that can be accessed from PC Side.

(Example MOUNTLIST)

/* vi:ts=8
*
* Change LowCyl, HighCyl, Surfaces, BlocksPerTrack and Unit
* to suit your hard drive (run DISKINFO DHx: to see the details
* for a given partition)
*/
PCD: FileSystem = l: pcdisk-handler
Device = scsi.device
Unit =
Flags = 0
LowCyl = ; HighCyl =
Surfaces =
BlocksPerTrack =
Buffers = 5
BufMemType = 0
BootPri = 0
Stacksize = 4096
Priority = -5
GlobVec = -1
Reserved = 2
Mount = 1
#
/*
* See docs for more info about this entry
*/
IBM: Device = scsi.device
Unit =
Flags = 0
Surfaces = 1
BlocksPerTrack = 32
Reserved = 0
Interleave = 0
LowCyl = ; HighCyl =
FileSystem = L:MSDOSFileSystem
Stacksize = 4000
Priority = 5
GlobVec = -1
DosType = 0x4D534400
Buffers = 5
BufMemType = 1

All that Drive Parameter information could be used by the Amiga-side.
For the PC side, the FDISK/DOS holds that somehow.

( I still have to go thru ALL my Workbench disk and look for /DEV/.. Files and any MOUNTLIST files for clues)
Haven't had time.

[wbrejnia]

The same at http://bboah.amiga-resistance.info/cgi-bin/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=328:
"This card may have been supplied with a 360K 5.25" floppy drive however the card can also use a real external Amiga floppy drive, to read 720K DOS disks."

From the schematics at your "GERMAN Electronic Version" link I`m beginning to understand:
- The Amiga 2000 has Zorro-II slots and ISA-slots (pre-PCI age) on the motherboard (partially in line).
- The card plugs into both a Zorro slot and an ISA slot and so allows you to use real 8bit ISA cards in the ISA slots of your A2000, which are disabled by default and can only be activated and `linked` to the Amiga`s Zorro bus by a "bridgeboard" (hence the name). This allows you to use a MFM ISA controller card with MFM harddrive in your Amiga.
- According to the German Amiga wiki (http://www.amigawiki.de/doku.php?id=de:expansion:other:a2088xt), the German Commodore engineers in Braunschweig designed the PC/XT on the bridgeboard strictly in line with the original IBM 8088 XT/PC specifications.

And as far as I remember, the original IBM 8088 XT/PC only had two 5 1/4 360 kB floppy disk drives by default - no harddrive. That means you cannot use a harddrive with the XT/PC on your A2088XT bridgeboard - just the Amiga can access the drive via the bridgeboard and the MFM controller in the ISA slot.

Therefore I do not believe there is any M$-Dos related stuff on your drive - just Amiga stuff, I`d say...

Sorry for the bad news...

You understand this much better than me.
 I think you might be right.  I probably only ran FLOPPIES on PC dos side for school MATLAB programs.  The rest was the Amiga Workbench of HDD.
 
 That is good news since I can stop looking for a DOS solution and focus on the Amiga side.  That means I have a Amiga Workbench with lots of goodies installed.  That is better (more fun stuff, maybe games too !!
 
 And when my ISA card arrive, I can build an Amiga with a Hard Drive, even if my MFM Card/Drive is broken.  If not broken, I can sell it.

[Pat the Cat]

- According to the German Amiga wiki (http://www.amigawiki.de/doku.php?id=de:expansion:other:a2088xt), the German Commodore engineers in Braunschweig designed the PC/XT on the bridgeboard strictly in line with the original IBM 8088 XT/PC specifications.

And as far as I remember, the original IBM 8088 XT/PC only had two 5 1/4 360 kB floppy disk drives by default - no harddrive. That means you cannot use a harddrive with the XT/PC on your A2088XT bridgeboard - just the Amiga can access the drive via the bridgeboard and the MFM controller in the ISA slot.

Listen, the red parts are not true. Any XT could read and write to any ISA PC hard drive. It was delivered as a floppy only system, but it was upgradable. There may be a DOS partition on that drive, but whether it is BOOTABLE without a floppy, or Janus running correctly with right settings, or maybe both, is the issue. The original IBM PC is a different matter, XT allowed expansion beyond floppy.

All XTs could USE hard disks. Bridgeboards permit Amiga applications and operating system to access PC ISA peripherals, true.

There may not be any PC parititions, there may only be Amiga formatted partitions, BUT if Wally was using it as a PC as part of a university course, it's a certainty he used a DOS partiton for the DOS based work he was doing.

I say a CERTAINTY. Whether or not it's readable by the XT or any other system now is a different matter. I'm optimistic, I think it's still there.