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Author Topic: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology  (Read 10932 times)

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Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« on: October 26, 2015, 02:47:36 AM »
Great, as long as there are no NDAs and similar stupid strings attached, that later can be used to prevent developers from participating in other projects.

Free Olsen and Thomas and now! :)

EDIT: And.. Sacramento? What on earth are they doing in California?
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A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2015, 04:35:01 AM »
Quote from: SACC-guy;798136
AmiWest (18yrs and counting) a great place for ALL amigans to meet and share!

That's what they were doing in Sacramento, CA!

Ah - of course! Been so many events lately, I forgot about this one :laughing:
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A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2015, 06:48:32 AM »
Quote from: matthey;798183
The Raspberry Pi was a new system with weak CPU performance (~300MHz Pentium II single core performance) and now has thousands of developers, good "official" compiler support and about 30 operating systems have been developed for it. Cheap hardware attracts users and users attract developers. Learning new APIs and hardware doesn't seem to be a problem when there is plentiful cheap and standard hardware.


You forgot a few important points:
* open hardware, free documentation
* no need for proprietary drivers
* no company that tries to dictate what you run on it
* no legacy demands
* tiny, low power consumption

And the rpi is just one of many and nothing new or special. What the RPi really brought was lower price. And a great expansion port. I used to have a few gumstix and various other boards, but they were all way more expensive. As for APIs, nothing was new with the RPi, Linux and BSD on ARM is old news.
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2015, 02:39:05 AM »
Quote from: amigakit;798198
You have to remember we attended many shows around the world and have met many developers prior to this face to face discussing many details.

For example, I met Acill personally at Amiwest and after talking with him would be happy to work with him on projects.

Amiga shows do not count, that goes as preaching to the choir. Most amiga developers I ever met under one roof was at FOSDEM - Free Open Source Developers European Meeting - in Brussels (https://fosdem.org) none of them involved in Amiga these days.
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2015, 02:43:27 AM »
Quote from: matthey;798177
I sincerely believe A-Eon wants to encourage Amiga development albeit with a focus on AmigaOS 4 and PPC. They need to convert more 68k Amiga users and developers to expand their user and developer base. I doubt that the AmigaNG is competitive enough to attract many outside users and developers.

It is not a matter of competition, it is a matter of being attractive.

Please... stop pretending that Amiga is a "market" and that Apple and Microsoft etc are "competition", it only makes you look delusional.
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2015, 03:37:47 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;798217
They are going to manufacture sound cards.

No, it is a decoder card, akin to MAS-player, not a sound card.

Quote
And maybe they don't want to undercut their OS4 market.

What market? Hardware to OS3.x does not in any way, shape or form, compete with OS4. The issue is more that a Minimig+ would require someone willing to develop the FPGA code for it, and I can not think of anyone who would want to do that exclusively for them. The best a Minimig+ could hope be today, would be a MIST clone. But we already got MIST.

Quote
Further, if Jens has most of the supplies of OEM chips, CLPD or FPGA based parts would have to be substituted (not that that couldn't offer some room for improvement.

?? OEM chip?? Jens has most of the supplies of the AGA chips, these are not at all needed to create new motherboards based on FPGA.

Quote
Finally, A-cube announced a new version of the MiniMig awhile ago, and while that has still not surfaced, does A-eon want to tread on Acube's market?

What? It was A-EON who announced the Minimig+ with A-cube as a partner. But neither of them have developers to actually develop Minimig FPGA core for such a board, all they can do is to develop a board for which there already exists some rudimentary support, and hope it attracts developers. That is how it works, and it does not fit "business plans" of these companies.
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2015, 06:11:50 PM »
Quote from: Niding;798253

Whats wrong with preaching to the choir?


This is a so called "reach out to developers" - most developers do not go so much to Amiga shows, but they do go to developer meetings, they do go to conventions etc. If A-EON are serious about getting more developers, they should look outside the ever shrinking community.

Quote

There are still many 68xxx users around that still havent taken the leap to PPC. If anything, it would be easier to entice a still active Amiga user, than to pull in people that have already left the "scene".


You think 68k users are living under rocks and somehow have not heard about the the PowerPC thing? No, that is not the case. I have many PowerPC and many 68k systems (and a whole lot more), and what I use most is 68k, hands down, simply because I can easily run it _everywhere_. Second most used is AROS, for very much the same reason. Then comes MorphOS on mac minis, and very last comes OS4.

Quote

I can tell you right now, if there was a decentish AOS4 hardware alternative in the 3-400 euro range I would jump on it immediately. And Im even aware of the OS's shortcomings ;)


You could have had that years ago, if they could just "allow" OS4 to run on old Macs, and the OS could have advanced so much if they would open it up more.

Quote
For now tho, Im sticking to 68030, but I still cheer AeonKit on, and pick up classic hardware/software from time to time.


As do I, though the software has to be very cheap and essential for me to buy it. I only put "big money" into buying out source code and supporting development of open source software (for example I contributed I belive 150 euros for DOpus Magellan). Let us take PPaint as an example, it costs perhaps 20 euros, which is not much. But it is locked down, we can not make changes to it, we can not have a go porting it to AROS (or MorphOS for that matter). Instead we are at the mercy of BroadBlues, who like the rest of us, I am sure is also busy with "real life". I would pay a heck lot more than 20 euros for having the freedom to access the sources, do ports and submit patches etc - and most importantly, not be restricted by some nonsense NDA that mean I would have to look over my shoulders for the rest of my life.

Quote
As for being "delusional" for thinking there is a Amiga market; that depends on your refrence point. Noone belives AOS or Amiga in general will become mainstream again.


Matthey gives the impression sometimes that he actually believes that - he has previously stated that if only we have a m68k based cheap Strawberry Pi, tens if not hundreds of thousands of people would buy it to run AmigaOS. And he keeps referring to Apple, Microsoft, Linux etc as "the competition" - I don't know what to say about that other than "delusional" and over time it is very... tedious.

Quote

But that doesnt prevent vendors/developers to create a hobbymarket that can sustain several entities. Amigakit is a fulltime vendor with employees, and it looks to me they are trying to secure a future to stay a fulltime Amiga company. Great for them (and us).

Additionally Ive used vendors like Amigastore.eu, Vesalia and Induvidual Computers.
I see the Amiga "market" healthy as long as its able to maintain a customer count that can sustain all these vendors (and others).
New/updated software in addition to hardware (NG and classic) coupled with more streamlined storefronts are one of the steps.


By all means, I share this view and I buy from these stores too. And from private hardware developers, various projects (music and videos) and now latest, the A1200 kickstarter (4 cases iirc).  You have no idea how much stuff I had accumulated up through the years until last year when I pretty much gave away most of it to a buddy who is more skilled with soldering irons etc than I am anyways :)

I just find it very wrong that OS and software development of hobby operating system takes place in secrecy. I find it straight out crazy that skilled individuals like Olsen find it too risky for AROS to let people like himself contribute. Imagine, AROS contaminated with some lines of code from OS3 or OS4 - oh the horror, clearly someone must be sued for the revenue lost (never mind that OS4 itself heavily relies on open source software itself.) I find it hilarious (and mind boggling) with these outbreaks we have every now and then with OS4 and MorphOS camps charging each other for stealing code or whatever. The hostility and constant "law mongering" is sickening and totally pointless. When someone "steals" my work, I wish them good luck, I don't scream about copyrights :laughing:
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2015, 10:37:55 PM »
Quote from: broadblues;798325
A-Eon has the src not me. If you want to code on it apply for a job. The NDA just protects their copyright. It is after all not open src but commercial software.

I am not interested in a new job as I already got one, I am not interested in the money as I already got a job, I am not interested in contracts, I am not interested in deadlines. I am only interested in having the piece of software available on my choices of Amiga flavor - no strings attached. For that I am willing to pay much more for than 20 euros.

Quote
I'm busy coding on other A-Eon projects as well as "real life" but I'm sure more work on ppiant will follow.

Exactly, as a developer for A-EON you are busy with many projects, you and that other guy, whatshisname, hehe ;)
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2015, 09:15:29 PM »
Quote from: ssolie;798382
Back on topic, I think some people's dogmatic idealism is getting in the way of getting things done.

Very true, this dogmatic belief that software development is done best when it is done by paying single individuals is indeed getting in the way of getting things done.

Quote
A-EON is doing a fantastic job of getting new software products to market by paying developers so don't complain when they want to protect their copyright at the same time.
Protect their copyright from what, exactly? What is the point of this protection, what are these copyright owners afraid of? You are aware that even when something is open source, it is typically still under copyright? A-EON could easily be the hub for development of Amiga software, share the code with the community of volunteering developers, and still own the IP, you know - and better yet, not having to pay anyone to do the job of improving the software.

Quote
If you don't like it, stop the endless talking and start a bounty to buy the rights from A-EON and make it "free" or get out of the way because they aren't slowing down for a few hippies. :)
But they are slowing down because of a few hippies, that is _exactly_ what they are doing.
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2015, 09:22:01 PM »
Quote from: matthey;798400
I wouldn't be surprised if Amiga capable FPGA hardware is outselling Amiga PPC hardware yet this larger potential market is practically ignored even as PPC is dying.

Amiga capable FPGA hardware has outsold Amiga PPC hardware a long time ago, as Minimig soft cores exist for many FPGA boards that are sold commercially for other uses. And it only grows, more, fast and better. In the mean time, a few hippies are hacking on OS4 in their spare time.
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2015, 09:44:48 PM »
Quote from: dschallock;798414
+1
I can't wait to see what they do with Imagefx.  I would love to be part of that team in some capacity.

Let them know, and they will appoint you as head programmer, I am sure. :laughing:
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2015, 11:24:45 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;798428
I know you said this in-jest, but if dschallock was head programmer I'd buy the software for sure.  :)

They just have to make him an offer he cannot  refuse :rofl:
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2015, 07:17:30 AM »
Quote from: kamelito;798165
Trevor in his speech says " 14 developers engaged under NDA..." Which is common in the software industry so I see no problem here.
Kamelito


Well - I see many.

Firstly, Amiga is not "software industry", it is recreational programming.

Secondly, any dispute over NDAs is a lose-lose scenario, so why bother?

Thirdly, by tricking developers to sign "secret NDAs", A-EON may prevent these developers from working with both AROS and MorphOS - but maybe that is actually the plan, who knows.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2015, 07:27:12 AM »
Quote from: matthey;798628
The AmigaOS used to be efficient enough and scalable enough to run on a 68000@7.14MHz with 256kB of memory. Now we need a 2 GHz clock speed and more than 4 GB of memory?


Yes we do, because "content is king" and "content" these days is _vastly_ larger than it used to be. And it is not going to shrink any time soon, so the only deal for hardware and operating systems to remain usable, is to handle it.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2015, 08:53:53 PM »
Quote from: broadblues;799399
Having signed the NDA I can tell you it says no such thing.  It simply says I can't use the various a-eon ip in external products and that I can't talk about what software is going on behind the scenes. It doesn't prevent me from writing my own software (subject to not using the IP ofcourse) and it doesn't prevent me from writing for any OS.


Well, that is good, I guess. How do you distinguish between what is "their IP" and what is "your IP"? Is it about the ideas, the algorithms, or about the source code? Developers should be aware that NDAs are negotiable, it is not just a "sign here" thing.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
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A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS