Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: The Os 3.1.4 Thread  (Read 239619 times)

Description:

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« on: September 23, 2018, 05:29:39 PM »
@number6
Quote
I believe these are questions that Thomas would prefer to be discussed outside of the context of this thread.

Why should we get excited about this if this branch will be equally likely to dry up should Hyperion's money problems end in bankruptcy? OS3.9 is fine for users IMHO and there are a small number of Classic developers still operating that a bug fix may interest so what exactly are we attempting to achieve? AmiKIT is a Workbench replacement, many still use Directory Opus and now Amiga OS 3.1.4 is here!?! Rather than ask us to ask Thomas technical questions Thomas should tell US why this is of interest and what would be the benefit of buying it over and above OS3.9? I'm not trolling, this is a serious question.

From beta thread:
Quote
Lots of bug fixes and:
- Fast File System with native 64-bit support for NSD, TD64 and direct SCSI, long filenames and resizable media support
- CrossDOS with native 64-bit support for NSD, TD64 and direct SCSI support, long filenames and resizable media support, new mfm.device
- Format, DiskCopy and HDToolbox with 64-bit support based on NSD, TD64 and direct SCSI support, plus bug fixes
- C:Mount for large media, direct SCSI support and resizable removable media
- Working soft links for the RAM disk and Fast File System
- Shell tools with long filename support, softlinks and large media support
- Math libraries that reconfigure themselves when an FPU becomes available after loading.
- New DIR command with nicely formatted output
- New Workbench that also copies links
- CPU command with 68060 support
- exec.library that no longer dies on 68060
- SetPatch, without NSDPatch and RomUpdates (not needed anymore)
- Intuition with off-screen window dragging
- aux-handler now completely rewritten in C. No more BCPL code in AmigaOS!
- More bugfixed portions: audio.device, asl.library, Compugraphic fonts, diskfont and fixfonts, icon.library, iffparse.library, Installer, iPrefs, Locale, parallel and serial devices, RAMlib and RAMdrive, rexxsyslib, scsi.device, speak-handler, More, and others
- Added V45 layers.library, V45 execute command, V46 Shell

Great! Lots of work and extra 060 support is a great addition IMHO but does this all actually add up to a better and more complete product compared to OS3.9 or do you just view this a cleaner and future proof (from a technical viewpoint rather than legal obviously) version?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 05:37:40 PM by BozzerBigD »
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2018, 05:51:43 PM »
Quote
while still keeping it as original as possible

This is the thing I don't understand... OS3.5 and OS3.9 WERE official OS versions. They provide an 'original' Amiga experience. OS3.9 is worth it IMHO just because it has the .LHA Unarchiver program on the Dock out of the box. Commodore were both the Amiga's saviour and its destroyer. We don't owe them anything and in particular we shouldn't feel we are losing out on the retro C= experience by not sticking to the 'grey and blue' C= version of the OS!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 06:09:39 PM by BozzerBigD »
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2018, 11:30:50 PM »
Quote
Is it "future proof"? I beg your pardon. Amiga and "future"... If you want a future proof system, buy a PC or a smartphone. Actually, buy a new one every two years. (-:

I meant "future proof" in the sense of being a future proof code base in order to eventually extend the feature set to beyond that of OS3.9. If this is just a perfectionist project with no intention of taking it further and pushing past OS3.9 on 68k then I am not really interested. Perfectionism for perfectionism's sake is a pointless endeavour IMHO. We live in a fallen world and unless clean code actually gives you kicks then efficiency or features is normally the priority not simply eliminating ALL bugs just for the sake of it. AmigaOS is already efficient and features beyond 3.1.4 are available in OS3.9 so good luck to you but I'll be waiting for OS3.2.x before I'm on board.
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2018, 03:01:59 PM »
@olsen

Quote
The cleanest way to start over for the 3.1.4 update seemed to be to take the SAS/C port I had prepared and take it from there. Sure enough, this was 10-15 year old code which had not been reviewed since. There was trouble in every corner. Thomas reviewed the printer.device, tested, updated and rewrote it, filling in the gaps in the implementation to allow for OS 3.5/3.9 driver and prefs compatibility. Then it turned out that the HP printer drivers which were added in the OS 3.5/3.9 update were just as lacking as the printer.device and had to be reviewed, tested and updated. This was pretty scary :(

This really is baffling to me and it seems to me a mission anal retentiveness rather than to be useful in the real world!!! The Printer Drivers / printer.device were ALWAYS rubbish and are not worth updating! Everyone who wanted to use a printer on their classic who didn't want to be limited to a centronix era dot-matrix monstrousity bough TurboPrint period. There is absolutely NO point reinventing the wheel just because TurboPrint is no longer developed just as in the same way OS3.9 is no longer developed. These products were good and can still be bought / downloaded the last time I checked!

Maybe people just love putting right what once went wrong in a weird geeky 'Quantum Leap' kinda way but this project really doesn't seem to provide ANY real world benfits to the few Classic users remaining over and above what has gone before.

OS3.9 IS STILL FOR SALE AT VESALIA'S WEB STORE!!! THOMAS ET AL. ARE COMPETING AGAINST A 16 YEAR OLD PRODUCT AND DON'T SEEM TO CARE ABOUT IMPROVING ON IT (FEATURES, COMPATIBILITY AND SPEED IS ALL MOST OF US REALLY CARE ABOUT). IT SEEMS THOMAS MIGHT BE TEMPTED TO COMPETE WITH OS3.9 IF WE ALL INVEST IN THIS SPELLING AND GRAMMAR CHECKING EXCERCISE FIRST!! IS THAT ABOUT THE LONG AND THE SHORT OF IT? AM I MISSING ANYTHING? Sorry to use caps but what exactly are we buying and why?
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2018, 09:48:27 PM »
@LoadWB

Quote
I quite happily used HP printers on my parallel port without purchasing TurboPrint

Maybe if more people had bought TurboPrint and seen its value IrseeSoft would still be in the Amiga market! You obviously weren't into printing 24-bit graphics then?! TurboPrint was worth it for the Graphics Publisher program on its own IMHO. The difference was night and day between the native printer drivers and TurboPrint's and by around 1996 the difference was embarassing. C= sucked at updating Workbench and the Amiga graphics chips, their two biggest failures. Third party software took over to fill the void as did third party accelerators and RTG cards. OS3.9 was the obvious pinnacle of third party contributor/kludge based OS development post-Commodore. OS3.9 works better than we have a right to expect considering and with TurboPrint, CrossDos and AsimCDFS installed in addition to Boing Bags 1 & 2 I really can't see how OS 3.1.4 is any match for my current system except that the code is probably much neater  ;D

Please explain how a custom OS3.1.4 installation to update elements of my OS3.9 system would be worth my time/money?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 09:50:19 PM by BozzerBigD »
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2018, 10:36:23 PM »
I saw that one remit/design goal of OS3.1.4 was to make the OS play nicer with 060 boards. However, does this improve upon OS3.9 support plus Oxypatcher / Phase5 support etc? Is this update really for people that stuck to OS3.1 and forgot to buy OS3.5 and OS3.9? I mean I didn't install Boing Bags 3 & 4 because they were unofficial and I found the Boing Bag 2 install painful but that is nothing compared to still using Blue & Grey Worbench 3.1 in 2018! I can see why THOSE Amigans might seriously NEED to upgrade. The rest of us not so much. But I still think this is mainly about stopping Vampire users pirating core OS elements for VampireOS and instead encourage them to pay Hyperion for the pleasure.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 10:39:33 PM by BozzerBigD »
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2018, 11:42:58 PM »
@Thomas Richter
Quote
No. Many components included in 3.1.4 are more advanced than those shipped with 3.9. All the datatypes are post-3.9, the workbench and icon library are post-3.9, all libraries are post-3.9, the printer device is a hybrid, and the preferences are reworked 3.1 preferences as we do not have reaction. Some of the tools are also somewhere in between 3.1 and 3.9 such as the calculator, the clock, the icon editor, and HDToolbox.

Thanks. So it's a partial update with no Reaction but with better Datatypes , libraries etc? Why now if not to coinside with the Vampire? Why was a bug fix deemed necessary? The Vampire is the only fuel for Classic development so it's resonable to suspect Hyperion's rush is motivated by the Vampire and has caused them to instigate the update to the code for the new machines to increase cash flow at a difficult time for the company. That is an obvious assumption. What is less obvious is the real world benefits of installing O3.1.4 instead of OS3.9 with third party software? Is the plan to get third party developers to support OS3.1.4 going forwards instead of OS3.9? How many copies would need to be sold for ongoing development?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 11:44:34 PM by BozzerBigD »
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2018, 03:36:55 PM »
@Thomas Richter

Quote
I'm sorry, I really don't get your attitude.

Just checking that it won't further fragment development resources etc. It's great that OS3.x is under development again and it is a shame it ever stopped to be honest. A clean version of OS3.1.4 deserves a clean machine IMHO and I'm sadly not really interested until a Vampire standalone is available. Then I think this project has legs.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 04:36:19 PM by BozzerBigD »
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2018, 12:11:21 PM »
Is there a T-Shirt and voucher pre-order scheme for the physical copies of this OS / Roms? I guess they'll be ready "when it's done"?  Maybe the T-Shirt could have a nice "Kills 99% of known AmigaOS 3.1 bugs dead!" tag line? ;-)
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2018, 06:24:44 PM »
@Thread

What would give me the best improvements for my 060 RTG Miggy; Boing Bags 3 & 4 on top of Boing Bag 2 on my OS3.9 partition or incorporating the 'improvements' / bug fixes in OS 3.1.4? Should I do both? Should I be worried about instability?
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2018, 06:49:45 PM »
@giZmo350

I think I'm qualified to say that our icons would load a lot faster if we upgraded to Boings Bags 3 & 4 plus FBlit is built in so that would save RAM on AGA screen modes! I can't say I've got my head around what the real world benefits of upgrading to OS 3.1.4 components would be though Im sure there would be some given the effort to incorporate them into a OS3.9 system. Maybe the OS3.1.4 physical copy should come with a OS3.9 'upgrade' option?
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2018, 07:16:01 PM »
@giZmo350

That's great but should we upgrade with Boing Bags 3 & 4 first?
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2018, 08:59:45 PM »
@Thomas Richter

So has OS 3.1.4 incorporated FBlit into the core system then?
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2018, 09:04:35 PM »
Surely it has its uses transferring some graphics into fastmem rather than Chip Mem?
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios