Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: José Manuel on August 30, 2011, 08:19:31 PM
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The newest drivers spider.device 3.21 are available at
http://eu.shop.elbox.com/downloads_mediator.html
Spider.device 3.21 works with Poseidon 4.4
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I can't believe i am reading this!!!!
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Nice. But Deneb is still better
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@Xanxi.
Today i receive email from elbox confirming this,
im not have spider usb for test yet ,but is a good news
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@dreamcast270mhz
I buy deneb the last week :)
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Thanks for letting me know, I will test on my Spider now.
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Waiting your test AmigaKit
crossed fingers :)
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Nice. But Deneb is still better
Agreed. IF you already have one.
Looks like Spider is the only card available. Again :(
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I don't have either, but still Deneb and related seem better supported
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Excellent news! Now I can move my fantastic Deneb into my A2000 and put a spider into my A4000 (would have bought another Deneb, but they're all gone now).
Well done Elbox and well done to Chris Hodges who released Poseidon 4.4 to the community and always said that it was the Spider drivers that needed updating.
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Thanks for letting me know, I will test on my Spider now.
Please let us know. If it works then I'll order one through you.
Cheers.
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Poseidon 4.4 works fine on my A1200T with AmigaOS 3.9 :)
Click for picture:
(http://www.amigakit.com/images/spider_poseidon4.4_sm.jpg) (http://www.amigakit.com/images/spider_poseidon4.4.jpg)
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Poseidon 4.4 works fine on my A1200T with AmigaOS 3.9 :)
Click for picture:
(http://www.amigakit.com/images/spider_poseidon4.4_sm.jpg) (http://www.amigakit.com/images/spider_poseidon4.4.jpg)
Great. I'm off to place an order on your USA website...
Edit: Damn, you don't have any for sale. :-(
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Spider is not yet available- we hope to get a scheduled Elbox order in the next few weeks.
Don't forget to say thank you to Chris Hodges (author of the excellent Poseidon software) by sending him an Amazon wishlist gift:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/registry/wishlist/3PC8WXDIDB4CZ
http://www.amazon.de/gp/registry/wishlist/1123KBN787GJQ
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Spider is not yet available- we hope to get a scheduled Elbox order in the next few weeks.
So are these cards still rebadged NEC 720101 USB cards with a modified PCI ID? (They sell for $7 or so)
Does this particular driver erase RDB if you're unlucky?
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Spider is not yet available- we hope to get a scheduled Elbox order in the next few weeks.
OK, I'll wait until you get them in. Put me down as a firm order. I'll actually be in Wales again in November for the Swansea v Man Utd and the Cardiff v Forest matches, so if the stock comes in late I'll give you a Maesteg address to send it to or I'll pick it up in person.
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So are these cards still regular NEC 720101 USB cards with a modified PCI ID?
You'd think they would have to be or else the old cards would stop working.
Do these drivers wipe out your RDB if you have faulty memory, a rogue app writes out of bounds or you try to fake the PCI ID?
Edit: Looks like he edited in the same question while I was posting.
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So are these cards still rebadged NEC 720101 USB cards with a modified PCI ID?
Probably. A bit like MorphOS is a modified OS3.1
Does this particular driver erase RDB if you're unlucky?
Only if you're a pirate.
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@Piru
Harry, I am not sure- Ill let you know if we can get them in stock. I think the third batch of cards we had a few years ago were another brand though, if I remember correctly. I know the Spider in my A1200 cosmetically looks very different to the later Spider, in terms of layout and components.
@Darrin
It will be nice to meet you. Swansea vs Man Utd should be interesting...
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A bit like MorphOS is a modified OS3.1
If you're trying to find as bad analogy as you can you've succeeded.
The only way that'd work would be if Elbox would have studied some existing NEC USB card and would have created their own version with similar functionality, but with improved features. I'm afraid the Elbox contribution to the HW is the printed sticker.
Only if you're a pirate.
If only. Unfortunately AmigaOS has no memory protection, and as such the driver cannot tell a difference between a pirate and some application trashing innocent memory.
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You'd think they would have to be or else the old cards would stop working.
Do these drivers wipe out your RDB if you have faulty memory, a rogue app writes out of bounds or you try to fake the PCI ID?
Edit: Looks like he edited in the same question while I was posting.
As far as I'm aware the RDB "protection" issue has been over with and non existant for years and was confined to a particular driver.
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@Piru
Harry, I am not sure- Ill let you know if we can get them in stock. I think the third batch of cards we had a few years ago were another brand though, if I remember correctly. I know the Spider in my A1200 cosmetically looks very different to the later Spider, in terms of layout and components.
Interesting. Do those card revisions have the same PCI ID?
Which actually reminds me: You could easily create a patch to the pci.library so that it'd report any NEC USB card as having the same PCI ID as Spider 2. Assuming the chipset is the correct one it'd work. This way the spider driver would stay untouched and RDB destruction wouldn't happen either.
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If you're trying to find as bad analogy as you can you've succeeded.
No, I'm just being childish like you are as you try and undermine Amigakit and Elbox sales.
If only. Unfortunately AmigaOS has no memory protection, and as such the driver cannot tell a difference between a pirate and some application trashing innocent memory.
So it is just as well that such drivers no longer exist then, isn't it?
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My Spider card is very old (circa 2002)- here is the PCIInfo output in the Amiga Shell:
Pci Device 9:
VendorID: $1033
VendorName: NEC Electronics
DeviceID: $35
DeviceName: udp9210 Dual OHCI controllers plus Single EHCI controller
ClassCode: $c0310
RevisionID: $43
InterruptPin: 2
SubsystemVendorID: $1033
SubsystemID: $35
MemSpace0: $80003000 - $80003fff
Pci Device 10:
VendorID: $1033
VendorName: NEC Electronics
DeviceID: $35
DeviceName: udp9210 Dual OHCI controllers plus Single EHCI controller
ClassCode: $c0310
RevisionID: $43
InterruptPin: 3
SubsystemVendorID: $1033
SubsystemID: $35
MemSpace0: $80004000 - $80004fff
Pci Device 11:
VendorID: $1033
VendorName: NEC Electronics
DeviceID: $e0
DeviceName: uPD720100A USB 2.0 Host Controller
ClassCode: $c0320
RevisionID: $4
InterruptPin: 4
SubsystemVendorID: $ee4
SubsystemID: $89e
MemSpace0: $80000100 - $800001ff
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Has it been confirmed that it no longer has the RDB code in it?
That's my main worry and they would do well to put that officially to rest if they haven't already.
With Deneb gone, they are the only game in town, but I'd rather not worry about that particular problem.
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Considering that 100s of us use Elbox products with Elbox drivers every day then I think the answer speaks for itself.
I'd rather see Piru back up his statement by producing evidence that such code exists in the latest drivers.
I think the RDB stuff goes back to the first days when Elbox were guarding their drivers like the crown jewels and you had to get them on CD and then register their products in order to access any updates. These days you can just download the latest drivers off their website with no checks.
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I'd rather see Piru back up his statement by producing evidence that such code exists in the latest drivers.
Which statement is that?
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Does this particular driver erase RDB if you're unlucky?
and yes, I know the difference between "suggesting" and "stating", but we both know what you were insinuating so don't try and be clever.
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I know the difference between "suggesting" and "stating"
Well it looked like as if you wouldn't have. Thanks for setting the record straight.
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Piru and I weren't the ones caught putting potentially damaging software on the market. It's their PR blunder.
It's a legitimate concern that I'd like to at least get confirmation on before paying 9x cost for a driver that is locked to one USB card.
If the Deneb died, I understood that replacement cost was for custom hardware.
It hurts to pay $80 for driver development (which I'm fine with BTW) and then have to pay again if the $10 hardware dies.
Adding the worry of the driver going haywire and trashing my RDB is just a step too far to ask.
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Well it looked like as if you wouldn't have. Thanks for setting the record straight.
So, can we take that as "there is no RDB trashing code in Elbox's drivers that Piru knows about and he just hates to think of them selling rebadged USB cards to Mediator owners"?
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Has it been confirmed that it no longer has the RDB code in it?
There's no way to know unless if someone reverse engineers the code. At least in earlier driver versions Elbox employed encryption methods to hide the code from simple disassembly dumping (hence elboxdecrypt (http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/sintonen/elboxdecrypt/)).
I might take a look if I find some spare time.
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So, can we take that as "there is no RDB trashing code in Elbox's drivers that Piru knows about and he just hates to think of them selling rebadged USB cards to Mediator owners"?
More like "This vendor has placed malicious code in their driver before, publicly denied any wrongdoing (http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1054203472&category=forum) rather than apologizing, and thus cannot be trusted unless any software from them is manually checked against such code."
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No, I'm just being childish like you are as you try and undermine Amigakit and Elbox sales.
Piru and Chris Hodges (Poseiden author) may rub people the wrong way sometimes but they aren't the bad guys here.
I think Elbox is very "unprofessional" for...
1) Releasing a driver that could potentially destroy HD information (Confirmed by Chris Hodges).
2) Rebadging a generic card as their own and writing a driver for it instead of writing a universal driver that works with any NEC USB card.
I think Elbox is somewhat unprofessional for...
1) Using a pirated copy of Poseiden.
2) Advertising the PPC Shark forever with no intention of bringing it out.
3) Having the worst e-mail management of any company I have ever seen.
Elbox deserves to have their Spider driver hacked/patched to work with a generic NEC card. Hmm, Maybe I should buy a $7 card and give it a try. I better back up my hard drive first though :/.
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I'd go as far to say it was criminal.
and only somewhat unprofessional for shipping/selling pirate software with the device? that should go under criminal too :)
There is no excuse for software designed "under certain conditions" to secretly destroy data, and anyone defending such practices is surely an idiot.
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So are these cards still rebadged NEC 720101 USB cards with a modified PCI ID? (They sell for $7 or so)
Does this particular driver erase RDB if you're unlucky?
Does this mean that any USB card using the NEC 720101 chipset will work? If so, I found USB cards with this chipset for even less at $4.98!
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Does this mean that any USB card using the NEC 720101 chipset will work?
No. Elbox has locked the driver to this "Spider" card. There's no reason why it wouldn't work though, other than this artificial lock-in.
If so, I found USB cards with this chipset for even less at $4.98!
I'm afraid you have to buy the Spider II. It's about $77. You get a nice yellow Elbox Spider II sticker though!
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I'm afraid you have to buy the Spider II. It's about $77. You get a nice yellow Elbox Spider II sticker though!
According to the elbox site, you will have to fork out 83 euros or $ 91.95 from their non eu store. bargain!
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So are these cards still rebadged NEC 720101 USB cards with a modified PCI ID? (They sell for $7 or so)
Does this particular driver erase RDB if you're unlucky?
Damm beat me to that was exactly questions I was going to ask.
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I think Elbox is very "unprofessional" for...
2) Rebadging a generic card as their own and writing a driver for it instead of writing a universal driver that works with any NEC USB card.
You'd probably be suprised how often this happens then. I've seen generic graphics cards with custom roms sold for treble the price of the generic ones, you're paying for the whole package & not just the raw materials.
Like all companies, they are here to make money. If writing the software was free then someone else would have done it by now. Using the hardware as a dongle is the only way they can protect their investment from rampant piracy (which you have to admit is what would happen if they tried to recoup their costs and didn't protect it).
I don't think corrupting the hard drive is good practise though. Putting random read/write errors on usb device access should be enough. If you don't think thats professional then you probably don't want to pirate nero burning rom, as they have had code that corrupts your cd/dvd burns.
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Well it looked like as if you wouldn't have. Thanks for setting the record straight.
Off topic: "if you wouldn't have"?! If you're attempting to pick holes in someone else's grammar, make sure you get your own correct...
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Well, why not try out ArakAttack and let Guido know how it performs?
http://geit.de/stupid/ArakAttack.readme
http://www.geit.de/stupid/ArakAttack.lha
It should work with most USB PCI cards. Perhaps the author needs some feedback about how it performs with OpenPCI.
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How do they change the PCI ID of the card? Jumper a few pins on the ASIC? Can someone mod their own $4 board so as to not require software patches??
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alex, I reckon you KNOW you could do it ;)
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@alexh
perhaps they reflash the small 8KB flash or eeprom chip. Depending on the chip model perhaps they update it using software (like uniflash) and they don´t need to modify anything of the hardware.
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If you're attempting to pick holes in someone else's grammar
I wasn't.
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Christ on a cracker, there's enough venom in this thread to kill half of africa.
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Christ on a cracker, there's enough venom in this thread to kill half of africa.
We have banks and politicians to do that, no need for us to join in.
I'm a bit shocked to see some of the comments here to be honest. It's all well and good giving Elbox a hard time (and no, I am not in any way defending them), but surely with the wealth of coding skills among A.org members someone here could write a generic driver themselves rather than saying it's what Elbox "should" have done.
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but surely with the wealth of coding skills among A.org members someone here could write a generic driver themselves rather than saying it's what Elbox "should" have done.
I think the biggest barrier to that is doing anything that might hurt Chris who has done nothing but good for the community as far as I am aware.
He only gets paid when people license Poseidon and a driver that doesn't feed anything back to him is kind of a slap in the face.
I also assume that he probably has a driver already and that if he was OK with the community doing it, then he would just release his instead.
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I am not sure if it is still possible to register Poseidon any longer- I registered way back in 2003(?). However if you like Poseidon, consider sending Chris a donation in recognition for his hard work. Poseidon is a rare example of modern, good quality Amiga software.
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yes thx to Chris ,without this possibly very much users of amiga classic have left the platform and I think elbox also deserves applause for all good hardware in the last years
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I think the biggest barrier to that is doing anything that might hurt Chris who has done nothing but good for the community as far as I am aware.
He only gets paid when people license Poseidon and a driver that doesn't feed anything back to him is kind of a slap in the face.
I also assume that he probably has a driver already and that if he was OK with the community doing it, then he would just release his instead.
Well, I certainly wouldn't like to see Chris get screwed. That would be most unfair.
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@Tripitaka
I agree, USB is one feature I use on my Classic Amiga every day and it proves to be essential.
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I think the biggest barrier to that is doing anything that might hurt Chris who has done nothing but good for the community as far as I am aware.
He only gets paid when people license Poseidon and a driver that doesn't feed anything back to him is kind of a slap in the face.
I also assume that he probably has a driver already and that if he was OK with the community doing it, then he would just release his instead.
Poseidon is open source. There are no licensing requirements anymore.
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So are these cards still rebadged NEC 720101 USB cards with a modified PCI ID? (They sell for $7 or so)
?
Yes, thats right.
Does this mean that any USB card using the NEC 720101 chipset will work? If so, I found USB cards with this chipset for even less at $4.98!
Yes, with an different subsystem id. I see you have no signature, I do however. :)
How do they change the PCI ID of the card? Jumper a few pins on the ASIC? Can someone mod their own $4 board so as to not require software patches??
Atc24lc02 can easily be programmed, yes you can mod your own.
@alexh
perhaps they reflash the small 8KB flash or eeprom chip. Depending on the chip model perhaps they update it using software (like uniflash) and they don´t need to modify anything of the hardware.
They did remove the atc, programmed it and soldered it back on, looks like they didn't have a test clip for easy programming.
But yes you can reflash it. I like .5... instead of .5..3
We have banks and politicians to do that, no need for us to join in.
I'm a bit shocked to see some of the comments here to be honest. It's all well and good giving Elbox a hard time (and no, I am not in any way defending them), but surely with the wealth of coding skills among A.org members someone here could write a generic driver themselves rather than saying it's what Elbox "should" have done.
Why do it so difficult, serial eproms are easy to work with.
There are several low cost solutions for flashing 24 series, look on ebay. You can build a programmer for less then 20$.
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Well, I certainly wouldn't like to see Chris get screwed. That would be most unfair.
... over and over again... seems to be a letter 'E' problem.
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Poseidon is open source. There are no licensing requirements anymore.
AROS Poseidon != Poseidon for classic Amiga 68k.
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Poseidon 4.4 works fine on my A1200T with AmigaOS 3.9 :)
Try a mouse/keyboard behind a USB 2.0 hub. If this works, I'd like to see a PsdDevlister output.
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We have banks and politicians to do that, no need for us to join in.
I'm a bit shocked to see some of the comments here to be honest. It's all well and good giving Elbox a hard time (and no, I am not in any way defending them), but surely with the wealth of coding skills among A.org members someone here could write a generic driver themselves rather than saying it's what Elbox "should" have done.
The source code of pciusb.device used on MorphOS and AROS can be got hold of from the AROS repository. My guess is that with minor modifications it could be adapted to work on classic PCI adapters. I have no idea about the state of the ArakAttack drivers on current versions of Poseidon. Maybe Geit has interest to get these up and running again. Maybe he should be bribed instead?
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I think the biggest barrier to that is doing anything that might hurt Chris who has done nothing but good for the community as far as I am aware.
He only gets paid when people license Poseidon and a driver that doesn't feed anything back to him is kind of a slap in the face.
I also assume that he probably has a driver already and that if he was OK with the community doing it, then he would just release his instead.
I never was attempting to make a living on Amiga Software and gladly, in the past years it was less than 2% of my overall income... But yes, there were slaps in the face from people I would never had expected it.
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@platon42
Try a mouse/keyboard behind a USB 2.0 hub. If this works, I'd like to see a PsdDevlister output.
OK, Ill plug my spare Logitech keyboard into the USB hub I have connected already and post the output here in a few minutes...
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@Chris Hodges,
Since you are online and reading this thread, what are your opinions on the possibility of getting a wireless USB network adapter to work with AmigaOS3.x, or MorphOS2.x?
Neil Cafferkey has improved the Prism2 driver to include WPA support recently and I am almost desperate to get some kind of wireless networking running on any of my MorphOS2.x machines.
I would love to be able to use one of my two wireless PCMCIA Prism2 compatible cards in my G4 PowerBook running MorphOS2.8 when it is released, as it has been stated that the internal Airport card will not be supported in the initial release of MorphOS for G4 PowerBooks, and may not be supported ever in the future, unless some third party developer wants to complete a driver for it.
I would gladly pay you, or Neil Cafferkey (or anyone else that could complete one) for a driver for the internal Airport Extreme card inside my 1.67GHz G4 PowerBook. But since the G4 PowerBook also has a PCMCIA slot, it seems to me that an easier solution for wireless networking, would be to first get the MorphOS Dev. Team to activate that device (the PCMCIA slot is currently blacklisted due to some incompatibilities experienced in the past), and then just use Neil Cafferkey's Prism2 device driver for MorphOS2.x. If there is an easier solution using a USB wireless networking device, then I am all for that too.
The advantage of getting a wireless USB networking device supported, is that it could be used on any Amiga, or MorphOS computer with USB ports.
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@Platon42
Logitech keyboard and mouse works fine in the USB 2.0 hub, here is the device list:
http://www.amigakit.com/images/poseidon4.4-devices.jpg
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If you're trying to find as bad analogy as you can you've succeeded.
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Piru
Have to agree with you here. Completely absurd analogy.
Darrin are you kidding us or what with that crap? Its like blaming the London Riots on Seaguls... doesnt make sense? Sound silly? EXACTLY
btw have fun at the games im sooo jealous ... though obviously Swansea has zero chance v Man U.
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Piru
Have to agree with you here. Completely absurd analogy.
Darrin are you kidding us or what with that crap? Its like blaming the London Riots on Seaguls... doesnt make sense? Sound silly? EXACTLY
btw have fun at the games im sooo jealous ... though obviously Swansea has zero chance v Man U.
Of course I was kidding. Like I said, I was just throwing crap back to mimic the original comment.
I fear you're right, unless Swansea beat Arsenal 9-2 on the 10th. ;)
Still, whatever the result, it is going to be a good game.
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They did remove the atc, programmed it and soldered it back on, looks like they didn't have a test clip for easy programming.
But yes you can reflash it. I like .5... instead of .5..3
They plugged the 5$ card into a PC, started the NEC supplied programming tool, changed the subsystem ID, removed the card and put the yellow sticker on.
The ATC chip can be reprogrammed by PCI accesses over the NEC chip. No need to start soldering. NEC provides all necessary information to registered users of their webpage.
Just to mention it: Spider won't work on AOS4.x Classic. The Mediator does not allow real DMA (just PCI-PCI DMA between PCI cards, not to Amiga motherboard), and as the NEC chip (as pure PCI solution) can only operate on DMA, you're done.
DENEB can at least be operated in Zorro III PIO mode with Poseidon running under M68k emulation on AOS4.x classic.
Michael
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Thanks again to Chris for having revealed important informations in the thread "Deneb versus Spider". This has made several members to email Elbox about an updated driver and here is the result. My 6 years old Spider 2 is not useless after all :)
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Thanks again to Chris for having revealed important informations in the thread "Deneb versus Spider". This has made several members to email Elbox about an updated driver and here is the result. My 6 years old Spider 2 is not useless after all :)
Yep :) This is the bottom line. I can use the card, it works very well, and it is fast! So it was costly. I doubt ELBOX is selling enough Amiga parts to have a surplus of cash...I'm just happy I have something that works.
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@Platon42
Logitech keyboard and mouse works fine in the USB 2.0 hub, here is the device list:
http://www.amigakit.com/images/poseidon4.4-devices.jpg
Thanks for testing. However, that's not the bit of information I was interested in.
"If this works, I'd like to see a PsdDevlister output. "
You know, the shell tool thingy.
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@Chris Hodges,
Since you are online and reading this thread, what are your opinions on the possibility of getting a wireless USB network adapter to work with AmigaOS3.x, or MorphOS2.x?
Neil Cafferkey has improved the Prism2 driver to include WPA support recently and I am almost desperate to get some kind of wireless networking running on any of my MorphOS2.x machines.
Neil has adapted his driver to work over USB on Poseidon for AROS. He recently asked for the Poseidon Classic/MorphOS SDK to try to port it there. Feel free to bribe him, he deserves it for his great work and it might help go get things done more quickly.
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Neil has adapted his driver to work over USB on Poseidon for AROS. He recently asked for the Poseidon Classic/MorphOS SDK to try to port it there. Feel free to bribe him, he deserves it for his great work and it might help go get things done more quickly.
Thanks for the info. I already knew (or suspected) that Neil was working on a MorphOS2.x port, but was unaware that he had already completed an adapted driver that works over USB on Poseidon for AROS. That is good news and gives me hope that it will not be long before he succeeds duplicating that work for MorphOS2.x.
I will gladly donate and/or purchase such an adapted driver from Neil when it is done, or if needed, donate now to help get it done sooner, and I hope that other MorphOS2.x users will do the same.
Thanks again for the updated info in your answer. Thanks also for Poseidon and I hope you continue to write new programs & utilities for AmigaOS3.x, 4.x, MorphOS2.x & AROS in the future and we see some amazing new program or utility from you soon.
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Chris,
Here is the PSDDevLister Shell output:
http://www.amigakit.com/images/psddevlister.txt
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Just to mention it: Spider won't work on AOS4.x Classic. The Mediator does not allow real DMA (just PCI-PCI DMA between PCI cards, not to Amiga motherboard), and as the NEC chip (as pure PCI solution) can only operate on DMA, you're done.
Michael
Are you sure about that? I can't understand why spider will work on os 3.9 but will not work under 4.1 there shoud be some kind of workaround as it works on 3.9.
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Because dma on mediator is a hack. AOS4 devs did not want to code that hack into the AOS4. Hence DMA does not work on AOS4
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Because dma on mediator is a hack. AOS4 devs did not want to code that hack into the AOS4. Hence DMA does not work on AOS4
ok...but maybe I could use the same driver I used on os 3.9 :P
USB on mediator is ok for me.
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i think support for standard pciusb cards could be solved on 68k using openpci, prefferably under aros (68k). but as aros68k is aiming for highest possible compatibility with amiga os 1.x-3.x even on driver level it would probably be usable without aros too.
@chris: glad to hear that neil is going to port back some functionality to 68k. as i already said once it would be great to unify the poseidon aros and 68k api, so that improvements to aros builds automatically contribute to poseidon 68k.
and im sure michael_e3b is right about dma dependant mediator devices non working under os4.x on classics. there was enough statements form os4 devs about no support for such a hack and from my persopnal experience with os4 (as long as i have used it) i can confirm michaels statement.
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what concerns rdb issue in elbox drivers i do not remember there was any proof that the code was malicious, only that the string was present after dissasembling. in this case it is just an assumption and rdb could stand for something else than "rigid disk block" or be put in there by mistake. as far as i remeber, there is no proof this code has ever caused any disk corruption. so execuse me if i now say, that i have an impression the whole campaign was an attempt at damaging elbox publc image in exchange for how they treated chris. i dont blame anybody for that, since it was an outcome of obviously unfair business practices, but in this case i would say lets put it to "bygones" for good.
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It was proved. Wasn;t just a text string in the code saying RDB.
There was actual code that would do this.
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@jj:
if so, another reason to go with open software. even elbox could be finbe with that as it could give them some more sell, even if not in rebadged pci devices sector. they should have concentrated on pcibridge solution as such long ago.
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@jj:
if so, another reason to go with open software. even elbox could be fine with that as it could give them some more sell even if not in rebadged pci devices sector. they should have concentrated on pcibridge solution as such long ago.
I don't think Elbox is fine with it or they would have made a generic USB driver from the start. I doubt they would have lost much if any money because of the increased Mediator sales. Their greedy clenched fists can't hold as much money as an open hand.
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I don't think Elbox is fine with it or they would have made a generic USB driver from the start. I doubt they would have lost much if any money because of the increased Mediator sales. Their greedy clenched fists can't hold as much money as an open hand.
Greedy? Perhaps it is the fact that they actually make money is what keeps them in the market. Want to buy a new G-Rex or Promethius from AmigaKit? Oh, that's right, you can't. Anyone else planning on making a PCI adapter for classic Amigas? Nope. I'd rather pay over the odds for some useful hardware than not have the hardware at all. Anyone who thinks that there's money to be made can come up with their own solutions.
As far as I'm aware, OpenPCI drivers can run along side Elbox's Mediator drivers (for running things like a PCI Catweasle) so why hasn't someone developed a USB driver for a $5 card yet?
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@matt: i think they are just a little feeble. dont care so much and try to earn some pennys hier and there without much trouble. f.i. they have given me some support on thirs party radeon. therefore they dont support pci, they just dont think much about it. but what could they do if openpci drivers opened some new possibilities even hurting their pci card sales? stop selling mediators at all? lets be serious.
@darrin: yeah that is good to have openpci as a sidekick to closed source drivers. and why none has developed a driver? because there is no devs left on aos. thank god we have some new aros devs like toni und jason dedicated mostly to 68k. jason has clearly expressed interrest to support pci bridges and much more on aros68k. its on todo list.
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@darrin: yeah that is good to have openpci as a sidekick to closed source drivers. and why none has developed a driver? because there is no devs left on aos. thank god we have some new aros devs like toni und jason dedicated mostly to 68k. jason has clearly expressed interrest to support pci bridges and much more on aros68k. its on todo list.
Hopefully we'll see some 68k drivers for OpenPCI soon. The more devices we can use the better: Firewire/USB combo cards, SATA/PATA cards, etc.
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What about the DXR2/DXR3 DVD decoding boards? I thought Elbox was working on a driver for those for years. Any chance to get this through OpenPCI or Aros?
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@Darrin,
I am using a SATA PCI card here on my A1200T with Mediator when running AmigaOS 4.1 Classic (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1035)
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@Darrin,
I am using a SATA PCI card here on my A1200T with Mediator when running AmigaOS 4.1 Classic (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1035)
That's interesting. I have my Mediator in an A4000 and only want it for "classic" use (and to be honest, my FPGA Arcade is taking up a lot of my Classic use and it will probably reduce the A4000 to a dusty shelf once I can add Jacub's 68060 board to it). For OS4.x I want one of those X1000s when they're available.
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@Darrin,
I am using a SATA PCI card here on my A1200T with Mediator when running AmigaOS 4.1 Classic (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1035)
nice for you, but since hyperion doesnt intend to support anything below ppc, 68k users have to rely on other possibilities. jason has already picked up the bounty to support ahci sata driver for aros:
http://www.power2people.org/projects/profile/32
and even if he had not expressed it explicitely (what he did) knowing that his work primarly adderss aros 68k we can assume it will come around end of the year. some preparations has already been done.
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Chris,
Here is the PSDDevLister Shell output:
http://www.amigakit.com/images/psddevlister.txt
Interesting. The Spider seems to be reporting even highspeed devices as full speed to Poseidon, somehow emulating the stuff necessary to provide split transactions to downport devices. Either that or you forgot to add the EHCI unit?
PS: Thanks for the CDs! Much appreciated.
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so execuse me if i now say, that i have an impression the whole campaign was an attempt at damaging elbox publc image in exchange for how they treated chris.
No, I don't excuse that.
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so execuse me if i now say, that i have an impression the whole campaign was an attempt at damaging elbox public image in exchange for how they treated chris.
No, I don't excuse that.
Ok, so much for "bygones" Chris. How about modifying your USB device for OpenPCI which Elbox doesn't like and sticking them with a bunch of nearly worthless Spider cards they can't sell. I thought it was worth a try anyway :D.
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They plugged the 5$ card into a PC, started the NEC supplied programming tool, changed the subsystem ID, removed the card and put the yellow sticker on.
The ATC chip can be reprogrammed by PCI accesses over the NEC chip. No need to start soldering. NEC provides all necessary information to registered users of their webpage.
Michael
No, they did not - at least not on the card I got.
I'm am sure Nec have a programming tool for these cards but Elbox did not use that software on all of the Spider 2 cards - maybe they did on some.
See my pictures.
Check out the solder work on my Spider 2 card. The serial eprom has been removed and they had some work done to the low voltage dropout regulator.
Look at the 'blob' at the tab (Vout) on the regulator not to speak of the work on C10.
Also, took a photo of an identical ebay card.
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@matt: perhaps chris doesnt need to bother with that, if jason picks up the job.
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@matt: perhaps chris doesnt need to bother with that, if jason picks up the job.
Sure, but then Chris wouldn't be able to extract his revenge by depriving Elbox of sales and sticking them with a bunch of modified USB cards they can't sell ;).
Would the AROS USB driver use OpenPCI? It would be nice if AROS incorporated OpenPCI but then they probably already have another PCI interface? Do your Mediator Voodoo 3 or Radeon P96 drivers work in AROS yet? I heard that AROS was working on supporting P96 drivers.
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Ok, so much for "bygones" Chris. How about modifying your USB device for OpenPCI which Elbox doesn't like and sticking them with a bunch of nearly worthless Spider cards they can't sell. I thought it was worth a try anyway :D.
Hmmm... why is it so hard to understand what I've written. I don't excuse the impression of wawa, and why should I, because IMHO it is very far from the truth.
There are easier solutions to your suggestion.
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@chris:
chris, sorry i wasnt around, only have red about the whole story afterwards. im not saying piru is lying about that, but was under impression it might be a wrong assumption after all. i had a regular customer support contact with elbox (mediator), and it just doesnt fit in my head that they might do such an evil thing as piru was accusing them of, but im apparently too trusting a person.
@matt: yes as far i know (jason) aros will take openpci into account on 68k. p96 drivers are already working on real hardware (zorro). ive tested cv64. still buggy though, but work.
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Check out the solder work on my Spider 2 card. The serial eprom has been removed and they had some work done to the low voltage dropout regulator.
Look at the 'blob' at the tab (Vout) on the regulator not to speak of the work on C10.
Agreed. Maybe you only get 3.3V only card nowadays, with the LDO missing, so it was added (no 3.3V supply on older Mediators). Most PCI cards can be fixed for 3.3V or 5V only systems, take the RTL8139 100MBit cards, old versions have an LDO, newer ones two series diodes, and most new one rely on 3.3V from PCI. But solderpads in most cases survive, so cards can be adjusted.
Pretty sure that there's some programming tool provided by NEC, anyhow.
Michael
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Interesting. Do those card revisions have the same PCI ID?
Which actually reminds me: You could easily create a patch to the pci.library so that it'd report any NEC USB card as having the same PCI ID as Spider 2. Assuming the chipset is the correct one it'd work. This way the spider driver would stay untouched and RDB destruction wouldn't happen either.
findpciclasscode $c0320 (uPD720100A USB 2.0 Host Controller)
(d0 = devicestructure)
compare vendorid $1033 = NEC, ok go on
compare subsystemvendorid $0e55 -> write $0ee4 to the structure
compare subsystemid $2928 -> write $089e to the structure
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Poseidon 4.4 works fine on my A1200T with AmigaOS 3.9 :)
Click for picture:
(http://www.amigakit.com/images/spider_poseidon4.4_sm.jpg) (http://www.amigakit.com/images/spider_poseidon4.4.jpg)
Wow nice workbench what do you have under the hood?
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1) The spider.device is up to 3.22 a download from the beta section.
2) As far as programming an NEC card, Mech has the actual details.
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Or you could spend the same money on a powermac and forget all this classic ****.
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Or you could spend the same money on a powermac and forget all this classic ****.
You seem to have mistaken apple.com and amiga.org
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You know full well what I mean.
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You know full well what I mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frags
Or you could spend the same money on a powermac and forget all this classic ****.
You seem to have mistaken apple.com and amiga.org
i think its been meant as mos promotion. even though a little too emotional to my taste. however as i suspect youre the guy who ranted on aw.net and then spent some serious amount of money on mos and os4 bounties you might have a reason to do so. the problem is, the scene is so diverse that its difficult to expect people to follow any common patch anymore.
wish you luck, but have chosen to stick with aros68k and the hardware i have for the time being. euae and radeon drivers might be of advantage to everyone if they be open sourced. however its not mine to tell..
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You know full well what I mean.
you know, It's people like you that kept me from buying into MOS for 2 years.
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MorphOS is a lot like the Canadians
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i have original spider on my a1200 with mediator, poseidon 4.4 installed and I am using spider.device 3.2driver , poseidon recognise spider but it does not assign lci card as hub to the system, so no device running
any one any idea
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What other PCI cards are in use, what does Medconfig have for used graphic memory, which version of the PCI.library are you using?
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What other PCI cards are in use, what does Medconfig have for used graphic memory, which version of the PCI.library are you using?
my lci card
ati radeon 128 MB (4MB to video memory, 124 mb to system memory)
realtek pcş ethernet
creative sound blaster
spider usb host
I am using latest drivers downloaded from elbow website
spider.device version 3.2
poseidon 4.4
best regards
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Well,lets assume you are using pci.library version 9.7 and spider device 3.21 or 3.22; when you go into Trident does it show the card as online? Have you assigned the three different units? In Trident, you add in the unit numbers 0,1, and 2 and take each online individually. The green "light" will go on in Trident if the USB stack is functioning.
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here are some pictures I just took
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PVszK2TY3Iw/VBV8PCo6_OI/AAAAAAAAFBA/UK91cHoACLQ/s1600/2014-09-14%2B14.19.30.jpg
poseidon recognised hardware, but only just one
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4CS4ItF3fYQ/VBV8U65KP4I/AAAAAAAAFBI/wvaS5__W-bk/s1600/2014-09-14%2B14.21.16.jpg
this is the message for programmer :)
and there is no device connected to spider
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PPJmq-AbPuI/VBV8Y-3FO0I/AAAAAAAAFBQ/QksvaLO5lfA/s1600/2014-09-14%2B14.20.12.jpg
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Ok, I see unit zero (0), where are units 1 and 2? To be functional all three units must be added and brought online. If you haven't done this, go to Add Device, select the spider.device, set the unit number to 1 then press Online; and do the same for unit 2
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I did as you said but they are not getting online, I also using thylacine on my a4000 and a3000 I only add one card and automatickly it find hub and rest usb devices
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Well, it sounds like the card has a problem; you can try cleaning the contacts and the slot or try another slot, but if you get the same results then something isn't right
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I did as you said but they are not getting online, I also using thylacine on my a4000 and a3000 I only add one card and automatickly it find hub and rest usb devices
ozkano, did you find a solution to your Spider USB problem?
I have a similar problem with my set-up. In fact, I have never had the Spider up and running all the long years since it was first bought. None of the Elbox drivers have worked with this set-up. I get the same errors as you.
It's been many years now, but I recall the Poseidon author, Chris Hodges, was not paid a license fee by Elbox for his efforts. Maybe he fixed Poseidon in such a way as to prevent the Spider - or some Spiders - from being recognised by Elbox drivers... I dunno...
And yet, we keep hearing stories of people successfully running the Spider on their Mediator equipped Amigas via Poseidon. Wish I knew their secret!
The whole situation still peeves me off. Elbox should have paid Chris Hodges the royalties. He's a good programmer and Poseidon looks a damn good USB stack. So sorry I've never been able to make use of it - especially after having paid for both the Spider and Poseidon.
Hope you have better luck.
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the problem is, the scene is so diverse that its difficult to expect people to follow any common patch anymore.
Which is what happens when people get a choice in the matter :) With Commodore, we got Commodore products. Regardless if we liked every aspect of them or not we had the choice of buying them, or not to.
The problem isn't choice. The problem is users who can't accept other people making the "wrong" one.
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First, clear all the spider.device settings in Trident and save. Then in CLI type:
AddUSBHardware Devs:USBHardware/spider.device 2
AddUSBHardware Devs:USBHardware/spider.device 0
AddUSBHardware Devs:USBHardware/spider.device 1
What happens now?
Info leeched here: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=667249&postcount=1
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Secondly, Poseidon works fine with the Spider device; but if you are concerned about the way that Elbox treated Chris, then show support for him by buying a RapidRoad USB device from Jens who set up an arrangement with Chris almost 2 years before the RapidRoad came to market. :)
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First, clear all the spider.device settings in Trident and save. Then in CLI type:
AddUSBHardware Devs:USBHardware/spider.device 2
AddUSBHardware Devs:USBHardware/spider.device 0
AddUSBHardware Devs:USBHardware/spider.device 1
What happens now?
Info leeched here: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=667249&postcount=1
Hi, Bamiga2002
This is what happens:
------------------
07:44PM| 0-poseidon.library: New hardware DEVS:USBHardware/spider.device/2 added (PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller).
07:44PM| 5-poseidon.library: GET_DESCRIPTOR (len 8) failed: host error (3)
07:44PM| 20-poseidon.library: SET_ADDRESS failed: host error (3)
07:44PM| 20-poseidon.library: Device enumeration failed, sorry.
07:44PM| 20-poseidon.library: Root hub enumeration failed. Blame your hardware driver programmer.
07:44PM| 0-poseidon.library: New hardware DEVS:USBHardware/spider.device/0 added (uPD9210FGC-7EA USB Host Controller).
07:44PM| 5-poseidon.library: GET_DESCRIPTOR (len 8) failed: host error (3)
07:44PM| 20-poseidon.library: SET_ADDRESS failed: host error (3)
07:44PM| 20-poseidon.library: Device enumeration failed, sorry.
07:44PM| 20-poseidon.library: Root hub enumeration failed. Blame your hardware driver programmer.
07:44PM| 0-poseidon.library: New hardware DEVS:USBHardware/spider.device/1 added (uPD9210FGC-7EA USB Host Controller).
07:44PM| 5-poseidon.library: GET_DESCRIPTOR (len 8) failed: host error (3)
07:44PM| 20-poseidon.library: SET_ADDRESS failed: host error (3)
07:44PM| 20-poseidon.library: Device enumeration failed, sorry.
07:44PM| 20-poseidon.library: Root hub enumeration failed. Blame your hardware driver programmer.
--------------------------
These same errors occur no matter what is done. However, everything else in Trident's message log window is reported as normal - all that stuff in Sys:classes/USB is seen and reported as functioning and ready to go.
Have tried the SpiderII card in a PC - goes fine. I had a camera and USB drive plugged into it. Nothing wrong with the card.
PCIinfo reports data for the card as normal - for all three instances of the NEC controllers.
Have tried the card in all Mediator's PC slots.
Have had things plugged into the Spider card whilst testing; and not plugged in whilst testing. Not one jot of difference either way.
Have removed and re-installed Poseidon several times - the last time with the latest version: 4.4
Have tried all versions of spider.device. Some result in the SpiderII card not being seen at all by Trident, others, like v.3.2, allow the card to be seen by Trident (all buttons 'green' and online in the 'Controller Tab', but still, never getting beyond the errors stated above.
Have 'clean-installed' the entire OS3.9 and Boing Bags, CYBPPC software, Mediator software, etc. Straight back to square one. No change. Same errors.
The Mediator Board seems fine - the Voodoo3 card has always performed well in it.
This has me utterly stumped.
Maybe I need a gypsy to put a reverse curse on this spider card! :-)
Cheers
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Perhaps it is misreading the Manufacturer's ID code wrong?
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Secondly, Poseidon works fine with the Spider device; but if you are concerned about the way that Elbox treated Chris, then show support for him by buying a RapidRoad USB device from Jens who set up an arrangement with Chris almost 2 years before the RapidRoad came to market. :)
Hi Danbeaver,
Not my Poseidon; not my Spider.
Yes, I have seen the new RapidRoad card. Looks OK. In order to have USB on our Amiga 3K, I just might have to fork out the bucks for one - and an Xsurf card to attach it to.
Do you know if the Xsurf/RapidRoad combo works OK via a Mediator's ZORRO slots in an Amiga 3000?
Cheers
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Perhaps it is misreading the Manufacturer's ID code wrong?
Is that the 'VendorID' from PCIinfo?
If so, here is the current PCIinfo output:
---------------------------------------------------
ViNCEd Version 3.91 © 2000-2001 Amiga Inc.
performed 1990-2001 by Thomas Richter.
New Shell process 7
7.System3.x:> pciinfo
Pci Device 1:
VendorID: $10ec
VendorName: Realtek Semiconductor Corp
DeviceID: $8139
DeviceName: RTL8139http://pcidatabase.com/update_device.php? _ Realtek RTL8139 Семьи PCI Fast Ethernet NIC
ClassCode: $20000
RevisionID: $10
InterruptPin: 3
SubsystemVendorID: $10ec
SubsystemID: $8139
IOSpace0: $40c06000 - $40c060ff
MemSpace1: $50000000 - $500000ff
RomSpace: $50020000 - $5003ffff
Pci Device 2:
VendorID: $1033
VendorName: NEC Electronics
DeviceID: $35
DeviceName: udp9210 Dual OHCI controllers plus Single EHCI controller
ClassCode: $c0310
RevisionID: $43
InterruptPin: 4
SubsystemVendorID: $1033
SubsystemID: $35
MemSpace0: $50001000 - $50001fff
Pci Device 3:
VendorID: $1033
VendorName: NEC Electronics
DeviceID: $35
DeviceName: udp9210 Dual OHCI controllers plus Single EHCI controller
ClassCode: $c0310
RevisionID: $43
InterruptPin: 1
SubsystemVendorID: $1033
SubsystemID: $35
MemSpace0: $50002000 - $50002fff
Pci Device 4:
VendorID: $1033
VendorName: NEC Electronics
DeviceID: $e0
DeviceName: 0x1033 USB 2.0 Host Controller
ClassCode: $c0320
RevisionID: $4
InterruptPin: 2
SubsystemVendorID: $ee4
SubsystemID: $89e
MemSpace0: $50000100 - $500001ff
Pci Device 5:
VendorID: $121a
VendorName: 3dfx Interactive Inc
DeviceID: $5
DeviceName: Voodoo3 All Voodoo3 chips, 3000
ClassCode: $30000
RevisionID: $1
InterruptPin: 1
SubsystemVendorID: $121a
SubsystemID: $57
MemSpace0: $52000000 - $53ffffff
MemSpace1: $54000000 - $55ffffff
IOSpace2: $40c06400 - $40c064ff
RomSpace: $50010000 - $5001ffff
7.System3.x:>
--------------------------
Is there anything unusual here?
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No, I believe $1033 is the correct code; it was just a shot in the dark :-)
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I could suggest that you have another Amiga user with a Mediator test it...