Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Jethro_Tull on September 14, 2006, 09:03:54 AM
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I know this type of thread has been done to death, but after reading about the impending launch of the Nintendo Wii, I just could not resist!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii
Come on, the only viable hardware for running OS4 is currently a PPC processor coupled with an ATI graphics card. The Nintendo has both, will be available in December and is prices at around $200, complete with a DVD Drive, built-in Flash RAM, Wireless LAN and USB ports. It can connect to both a standard television and a DVI/VGA monitor.
Immagine booting OS4 from the internal flash ram or from an SD-Card (which the Wii can also accept) in a jiffy, and having a nice last generation console. The Keyboard, Mouse and Hard Disk (if needed, SD cards can go up to 2Gb) can all be connected to USB ports.
It beats the overpriced DIY vapourware on offer (or to be offered) hands down in my books. Amiga Inc. seem to have come out of their closet, so if we lobby them and the Frieden kids hard enough, maybe we could have our powerfull, commercially viable, $200 Amiga after this rather overdrawn dark age of crap hardware, legal wars and dubious practices.
So long, Cheerio..........
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oh gosh, I really wish you hadn't posted this.
IMHO, it would be perfect and the enhanced wii could capture the original appeal of the amiga: standard hardware, games, and a powerful OS.
My mind is now in overdrive as to the potential here. Absolute overdrive.
Wow.
I sense ultimate frustration, but all the same, "what if AmigaOS talked sensibly to Nintendo and created a wii 'hacker' version for those who like to tinker?"
Oh wow.
it'll never happen, but oh wow!
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Very original. :-P
Xbox360 uses PPC and ATI tech too.
Then there's pre core-duo Apples, mac-mini ect...
...and the Gamecube (though not really ATi).
Seriously, I think if OS4 ever finds a hardware home, it'll be on some obscure, far-east, embedded system manufacturer's board.
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@colfish
The clear warning in the title should have warded you off if originality is what you're after. Now, as far as I know, the PPC core in the Xbox360 is a severly watered down version, making it quite slow for general use. Besides, Microsoft won't be falling over themselves to allow OS4 to run on their machine, and see it outshine their slow, bloated OS.
Also, PPC Macs are now obsolete, and the last thing Amigans want is once again to resort to dead hardware to run their favourite OS.
On the other hand, the Wii is very cheap, right in the middle of the public's attention and readily availalbe. With Amiga Inc. flogging AmigaAnwhere to all mobile/pda/whores on the planet, they might as well do the same with OS4 and Nintendo.
Cheerio
P.S. From your Avatar, it seems you're having a rough time, why don't you sit down, relax and have a nice cuppa?
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I've just been reading Bill's response to the A.o questions. His ambitions for Amiga would mean he must have considered Nintendo, and I'd love to know if any dialogue was taken or if it's still ongoing.
In so many ways it seems to be a perfect match of hardware and OS...
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Hmm, defensive. That comment was tongue-in-cheek, hence the smiley. Oh well here we go;
I cant see Nintendo "falling over themselves" to take OS4 either. If they wanted an OS on their console, they'd roll thier own (and it would be "better-er" than ugly ole' OS4).
Besides, Wii is all about games, moreso than 360 or PS3, Nintendo dont want a general purpose machine at all, they want a games console first and foremost, and that is what Wii will be. Stick with the obscure yum-cha far-east embedded-PPC motherboard manufacturers who will accept orders in the 10s or 100s and dont care what you do with them.
My avatar is tired of people pinning unrealistic/bizarre/naive hopes on multinational companies that dont even know or care that Amiga still exists (such as it is). He doesnt like a coppa-tea, but he wouldnt mind a, DRINK! :-)
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You would actually trust Bill's words, now?
Dammy
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@chiark
Can't agree more! While I opened this thread on an impulse after reading about the Wii on Digg, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense, really. More so in the light of Bill's recent Q&A session. Also, it is clear that Nintendo is also targetting the retro market, since it plans to offer a wide selection of NES, SNES and N64 games via the internet to run on the Wii.
If Amiga Inc. are earning their keep selling AmigaAnywhere (which is practically unknown) and a selection of mediocre games for cellphones/pdas, immagine what they could do with the real Amiga legacy!
Immagine for a moment, OS4 bundled with EUAE and the creme de la creme of Amiga games and applications, all ready to run, all on a single CD, with the option of buying more from the internet! If it's well executed and marketed it would be a hit with mainstream ex-Amiga owners, and instantly spread OS4 to the masses again!
Yep, my immagination might be definitly taking off here, but with the current outlook for the Amiga market being a dearth of homebrewed overpriced underpowered mainboards still in vaporland, this looks more attractive to me, and if Amiga Inc. play their cards right (instead of spewing off litigations left right and center) it might actually turn into reality.
All we need is optimism and a bit of luck!
Cheerio
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With all due respect to Bill M. & Co., I think the only realistic chance for OS4 is if a big company like sony or nintendo buys Amiga, Inc. and gets rid of this silly OS5 stuff and all the legal rangling over the dead corpse that is currently this platform. Then, there'd be enough capital and hardware to fund Hyperion and deliver OS4 by Christmas. :-)
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1. What's wrong with AROS?
2. What's wrong with Pegasos?
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@coldfish
My whole answer was tongue-in-cheek colfish. Nintendo are building the Opera browser right into thw Wii, and offering community sites and channels for it, so no, the Wii isn't exclusively a games machine.
Also, I'm not pinning anything on anyone here. The Amiga was a revolutionary machine for it's time and it's been a hell of a ride, but that's all. It's certainly not a life and death matter! Still, optimism lad, optimism!
Have a drink then! But don't count on me to pay!!
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Guys, what u don't understand is that Xbox 360 and wii have custom processors (xbox'es is 3-core which is a problem) based on the PPC instruction sets, NOT real, off-the-shelf PPC cpus. In theory OS4 should work but there could be a ton of incompatibilities caused by the special design of these cpus. After all, the freescale 405 cpu is PPC too, but OS4 (the public version anyways) doesn't run on it. Things are not as simple as saying, "it has PPC, it will boot OS4!", and we're not even touching aspects like system-logic support, firmware, graphics....
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The whole idea of the PPC's just give me the shivers. I know I'm going to get flack for saying this, but I never really got all excited about them. Call me a pratical x86 whore if you will.
Most of the PPC hardware applications (if not all of them) in on way or another were outrageously expensive for my taste. In the case of the Macintoshes, they were just overpriced period. I've known people that would literally have an orgasm when a new Mac came out, but not I.
As far as using ATI, is that really a good idea? I mean ATI as some good things, but as a whole a lot of there chipsets don't perform as well as the Nvidia counterparts. The lack of real unified drivers, okay I'm not going to get into this.
This talk of OS4 and hardware sounds like a bunch of 16 year olds on a chat network in an automotive room. Talking about their V8 powered, turbocharged, balanced engine timing, polished aggressive camshaft, blah blah blah. Unless you have a real product, it's all talk.
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I've known people that would literally have an orgasm when a new Mac came out
:lol: Do you realise what you've just written there? :-D
I couldn't give a stuff what processor is in the machine, I think Amiga are missing a trick by limiting AmigaOS to PPC, but then Amiga are saying just the same and OS5 might be just what we want? Who knows.
This *is* like an automotive hang out talking vapour - we've had empty promises for 10 years, so all we can do is talk about vapour for the future, and things like minimig for the past. Bill's recent Q&A thread has given me some hope that he shares what I think is everyone's vision of a platform that carries on where the amiga left off, and IMHO he fully understands the strengths that the Amiga brought to computing and how that "spirit" can be carried forward.
Sure, getting Nintendo to say "yes" to AOS4 is akin to the chances of Satan going to work in a snowplough, but this speculation is really not hurting anyone. I doubt anyone's thinking, "right, I'm starting saving now for my wii so I can run OS4"!
I like Nintendo's ethos and approach to the market: games are not technology, games are primarily fun (the clue is in the name :-) )
I'd love it to happen: it won't, but that doesn't stop a bunch of like minded enthusiasts speculating :lol:
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@justthatgood & @chiark
Couldn't agree more! I think porting OS4 to Wii is a good option in the light of the current situation. The Friedens have repeated that a port to X86 architecture is out of the question.
Of course, Amiga Inc. could use the buy-back clause and give someone else the task of porting OS4, but it certainly won't be trivial, and at the rate things have been going lately, X86 and humainity as a whole will be obsolete by the time it's released.
Therefore, an OS4 port to an existing PPC platform is currently the most realistic, less problematic option we have. The cheapest, most readily available PPC platform will shortly be the Wii, so it's simple logical to port OS4 to it.
Now, to make obtaining a licence from Nintendo less complicated, and the product more appealing, rather then sell OS4 for Wii on it's own as yet another operating system, I would use it as a platform to run some Amiga classics under EUAE. In effect, smuggle OS4 in an Amiga retro classics DVD.
The package would boot into the OS4 Workbench desktop to give the 'player' an authentic Amiga feel and experience, and represent the EUAE games as icons on the workbench screen. But of course there'll be much more to OS4 then just running the games! Extra games and applications to use OS4 to the full would be made available on the Internet in an e-shop managed by Hyperion and/or Amiga Inc.
Cheerio
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smartest thing is to port to x86. The Wii is a good idea also but through the years of C=/Amiga Inc..how many times has a "good idea" been used? lol
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@Wayne,
What say you revive my "Potential PPC Amiga real cheap" thread?
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what does amigaOS have the linux can't do better?
amigaOS was based on unix anyway, the open source community is cool and free! What exactly would the point of OS4 or OS5 be today? I think I will contine to run classic amiga OS on my classic hardware for fun, but I seriously doubt I will be able to leave linux for the next amigaOS. I'm not sure the world needs/want OS5 (or OS4). We already have morphOS and linux thats more than I ever got from commodore or amiga inc...
still like my old amigas and back in 86 amigaOS was way cool, but times have changed and amigaOS has not. Now I feel the energy to work on a new "closed source OS" is a waist of time.
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what does amigaOS have the linux can't do better
a cohesive, single, user interface experience? The Gnome/KDE wars/choices still depresses me, and IMHO that sums up Linux's problem: too much choice in the core things that should really be not up for change :-)
"What could AmigaOS have that MacOS doesn't do exceptionally well" is an interesting question.
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BTW amiga does not have a cohesive, single, user interface experience, there is MUI, classAct and a bunch of other widget tools kits floating around on the amiga platform, MUI being the one you have to pay for, preventing software from running if you don't have it. Can't think of anything that whack on linux right now...
"too much choice in the core things that should really be not up for change"
hehe, you ARE a mac guy... that's fine.
(can't say I'm huge fan of OSX... BSD is better if you ask me. OSX adds fluff....)
Can OS5 be better than linux or mac OSX? What would it bring to the table?
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>Guys, what u don't understand is that Xbox 360 and wii >have custom processors (xbox'es is 3-core which is a >problem) based on the PPC instruction sets, NOT real, off->the-shelf PPC cpus.
You guys aren't keeping up with the times.If I were gonna start porting an Amiga type OS to the XBox 360 I would probably start doing it using Microsoft's new XNA Game Studio Express Development environment.
XNA Game Studio Express enables individuals and small teams to more easily create video games (and maybe OS ports) using new, optimized cross-platform gaming libraries for Windows and Xbox 360.
The current beta release targets the development of games for Windows. The final version of XNA Game Studio Express will be available this holiday season and will enable development of games which target Windows and upon purchase of a XNA Creators Club subscription, the Xbox 360 as well.
Considering now that Microsoft has opened up the Xbox 360 and the PC with this set of tools to the more broad non-professional market with a professional set of tools. It would be easy to take advantage of this and port AROS or AmigaOS over to this environment because the development tools are free and offer a lot of the built in multimedia stuff an Amiga type OS is built for.
Personally I'd rather just spend the time writing free games on it, because they opened this up to everyone and anyone can now create an XBOX 360 game. I believe we'll have a whole new crop of console game developers pushing limits.. And since the games work on the PC too, that's killer.
Microsoft XNA Game Studio Express (http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/xna/gse/)
PS XNA is on it's way to replacing DirectX.. (http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/xna/migration/)
PSS You might want to check out what Garage Games is doing too.. Garage Games and XNA (http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque/x/)
I am expecting someone to trash me for writing this post. I hope the community is open enough not to. I think was jumpstarted the Amiga community is small developers writing games. We have to attract them today as well. Unfortunately this product is really where we should be with this whole thing. Tapping into new developers. If you can't beat em, join em before it's too late and they have all the marbles.
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No OS4/OS5 required to have a blast! Yep it's 2006!
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BTW amiga does not have a cohesive, single, user interface experience, there is MUI, classAct and a bunch of other widget tools kits floating around on the amiga platform, MUI being the one you have to pay for, preventing software from running if you don't have it. Can't think of anything that whack on linux right now...
True, but I'd sincerely hope that OS4 has that covered, otherwise they might just as well rethink it now. MUI was partly addressing issues arising from having a core OS that was designed to run on a low memory, low power device - 7 years is an eternity in computing when you go from 512kb/floppy disk to machines with new generation processors, considerably more memory and hard drives... I'd hope that the core of the OS is written in a way that things can be integrated more easily into the OS as time goes on in an evolutionary way rather than revolutionary way.
hehe, you ARE a mac guy... that's fine.
Nope, I don't own a mac - my main computing is done on XP - but I do firmly believe there's some things that are interchangeable, and others shouldn't be. Again, evolution of a platform, not revolution :-) . The MUI/etc situation on the amiga was something bourne of a need. A platform should be cohesive and not require the user to choose which environment add-on to run in order to get software to work.
(can't say I'm huge fan of OSX... BSD is better if you ask me. OSX adds fluff....)
It's that fluff that gives the appeal tho, and the sparkle - it's what made the amiga special in some ways.
Can OS5 be better than linux or mac OSX? What would it bring to the table?
Competition. Fresh ideas. A different viewpoint. I wish I knew what it was bringing to the table, but they'd better have some good ideas otherwise they might as well give up. They will know what they're up against...
Fun debate this :)
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yeah, I just wonder what OS 5 will bring to the party. Nowadays inovation is differnt back in the 80's and 90' it was easy to improve as things where so lacking but nowadays I feel like we have evolved things to a very usable level, inovation now is much more subtle. Linux is a great example as so many people are developing it, it appears imposible to compeat with such a fast evloving platform with just a few coders working over at a.inc? (don't actualy know the size of the team or location... could be in india for all I know about OS5.)
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I dont think OS4 or 5 needs to be that innovative, its target audiece isnt going to reach much beyond current AmigaOS users anyway.
Sure, it may get a few "once were" Amiga users coming back to it, but it's not going to lure XP/Vista/OSX/Linux users away from what they're already familiar with even if its fantastic.
Its pointless trying to market a closed-OS stuck to proprietary hardware, to the masses in 2006. It was pointless six years ago, someone probably shouldve said something back then?
If people want to try alternatives they can get FREE Live-CD's mailed to them or even splurge on a nice core-duo Mac and dual-boot Windows.
What does OS4 offer that isnt already covered by a free linux distro, other than something for current-Amiga-users to go on with? If that's Ainc's sole market, then it's long past time for a rethink.
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I think people would run OS4 (dont say 5...lets not get way to ahead of ourselves) on a x86 if it came out. I would. Not as a primary os but I would check it out. Same with MacOS...rumor has it, that it runs on a VMWare session ;-)
It would be COOLER to have OS4 on a Wii or P3 system because they dont have a OS you can boot into. Instant cash for the coderz at Hyperion.
-Alex