Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Crom00 on September 26, 2007, 04:33:38 PM
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Working on getting a small run of these made in China. To get real world costs the factories need a Bill of Materials. The schematics on Dennis' site are not enough.
How many of you have assembled working boards? If you have, can you be so kind to post the COMPLETE BOM for others out there?
This would constist of Part name, part number, supplier right down to resistors and capacitors.
This could be beneficial to any small run producers and hobbyist..
Factories have expressed a high interest level in this project. The only thing holding us back from producing a small run right away is getting the cost estimate via a BOM. We have experience producing specialty runs of toys and electronics we're anxious to get this moving foward.
Comon folks this is your chance to get Mini-Mig executed.
Any boards produced will be made available HERE at AMIGA.ORG FIRST
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None, because its hard to get the needed parts around. The 68k is discontinued at Freescale.
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Ok that's good to know. Any pin compatible direct replacements?
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DJBase wrote:
None, because its hard to get the needed parts around. The 68k is discontinued at Freescale.
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that Freescale was still producing 3.3V 68000 - 68060 chips. The best thing to do is to go to their website and check the official status. IIRC, the old 5V DIL chips are discontinued; surface mount versions are still available.
Hans
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Is this what you need?
http://www.opencircuits.com/Minimig_Board_v1.0_components
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I haven't seen any news about dropping the 68K line. The web site still shows it as an active product.... the surfacemount type anyway.
Freescale 68K Microprocessors (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=0162468rH3YTLC61654622#2)
Plaz
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The 68k is discontinued at Freescale.
Huh? I checked a few days ago and they were still in production (dunno if you havr to buy a thousand pieces), the ones that got the axe were the (68k) dragonball procesors; which makes sense since coldfire is much better.
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tonyyeb wrote:
Is this what you need?
http://www.opencircuits.com/Minimig_Board_v1.0_components
Thank you brother! I just sent this to the factories, they will advise if it's good enough for costing. After that I'll assemble a complete BOM with all packaging, instruction sheet spces and pack in materials.
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DJBase wrote:
None, because its hard to get the needed parts around. The 68k is discontinued at Freescale.
The exact part Dennis used is discontinued because it is not RoHS compliant. There is a RoHS compliant part that is pin compatible.
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@CROM00
Make sure in your BOM you substitute ISSI (IS62WV51216BLL-55TI) for 68AW512M ,an ST 512Kx16 SRAM in a 44 pin TSSOPII package, is no longer produced.
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Crom00 wrote:
Working on getting a small run of these made in China. To get real world costs the factories need a Bill of Materials. The schematics on Dennis' site are not enough.
I made a list from the schematic and I am not in the Industry, To be honest, if they cannot make a part list from the schematic, then they are not the right company for the Job.
Each IC type is identified (74HC, LM etc), All the resistor values are there, in the Schematic file.
I even had all the Digikey part numbers, individual costs, costs of each part per 25, and per 100.
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narmi wrote:
DJBase wrote:
None, because its hard to get the needed parts around. The 68k is discontinued at Freescale.
The exact part Dennis used is discontinued because it is not RoHS compliant. There is a RoHS compliant part that is pin compatible.
Oh who cares about lead free, unless you are going to lick the Minimig to death.
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Also how about a FPGA socket for the Xilinx? Sockets for the other chips would be a good idea too...
ISI makes a FPGA socket...HiLo Socketing Solution
Interconnect Systems, Inc
708 Via Alondra, Camarillo, CA 93012
QuickLogic Corp. carries the ISI sockets as well...
I have been toying with the idea of a fully socketed board run... just the board with sockets not any other assembly.
This would eliminate some complex soldering problems... But it will increase the price...
Just a though...
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whiteb wrote:
Oh who cares about lead free, unless you are going to lick the Minimig to death.
You know, I can almost picture some people here doing that. :laughing:
Hans
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@Crom00:
Some things you may want to consider:
* The original Async-SRAM chip is not available. And I don't see any reason to use two, when all the required ram will fit in one chip.
* Capacitor & Resistor package sizes are not detailed anywhere. My educated guess is that they are 0805 however.
(using recommended 0805 & 0605 solder pads and compare with pcb layout)
* Try to use RoHS components and solder to avoid legal problems with customs or enviromental authorities. In essense it's forbidden to sell any consumer non-RoHS complient device. Unless you can accomplish some exception, like telecoms equipment. Violations to this law may incour hefty fines.
Anyone using lead solder at home for repair or private purposes will have no problem.
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Hans_ wrote:
whiteb wrote:
Oh who cares about lead free, unless you are going to lick the Minimig to death.
You know, I can almost picture some people here doing that. :laughing:
Hans
Hahahaha yeah, we Amiga freaks do get a bit possessive of our Girlfriends :)
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Hi
If built in China RoHS won't be a problem per se. They don't adhere to it yet.
I'm guessing 0805 as well for the size as it's fairly standard.
Why you trying to get the exact 68000? There are very cheap alternatives to this now. They are 32 bit but can be programmed to 8/16.
Freescale (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MC68000)
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My bad for not reading, freescale posted above and not 20 year old CPU's. Sorry in advance.
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The SMD caps and resistors should be in the 0805 package.
:-)
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whiteb wrote:
Oh who cares about lead free, unless you are going to lick the Minimig to death.
Speak for yourself (slurp)
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Eclipse wrote:
Hi
If built in China RoHS won't be a problem per se. They don't adhere to it yet.
I'm guessing 0805 as well for the size as it's fairly standard.
Why you trying to get the exact 68000? There are very cheap alternatives to this now. They are 32 bit but can be programmed to 8/16.
Freescale (http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MC68000)
LOLZ, China is not exactly adhering to reducing Lead in paint for children's toys, why should Solder be any different. (And for the Record, I do not believe Matel's {bleep} retracting statement).
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Well sent off the propsed PCB BOM data, thanks to all those that replied to this thread. Please PM or Post any more data here.
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I have uploaded the original BOM to the download section on my site. You can download it here (http://home.hetnet.nl/~weeren001/downloads/minimig1_bom.txt).
Also, I have added a second page with some clarifications to the BOM here (http://home.hetnet.nl/~weeren001/minimig_building.html).
Dennis
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Dennis wrote:
I have uploaded the original BOM to the download section on my site. You can download it here (http://home.hetnet.nl/~weeren001/downloads/minimig1_bom.txt).
Also, I have added a second page with some clarifications to the BOM here (http://home.hetnet.nl/~weeren001/minimig_building.html).
Dennis
That BOM is better as the first one posted does not state Cap and Res values.
RS components allow web accounts, Maplins and of course Ebay will have some of these.
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Just thinking about liability issues, as the flashmemory is the one containing the FPGA bitfile, ROM files and possible other higher level software. The only component containting anything really substantial is the MCU. And that is also programmed.
So if the board comes unprogrammed there's nothing to build a case around hardware wise. Forum posts could be used however as evidence on intent.
The board could be argued to be a plain FPGA developer board.
The only other thing that comes near being Amiga specific is the m68k and joystick ports.
Something else..
Are people still intent on using two SRAM chips?
Also noticed this SD flashmemory hack: http://hackszine.com/sd_20070921.jpg
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Eclipse wrote:
Hi
If built in China RoHS won't be a problem per se. They don't adhere to it yet.
It will still be an issue due to import restrictions. It makes no sense to force your own industry to be RoHS compliant if people can just import cheaper non-RoHS stuff from elsewhere.
Hans
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Worrying about the legality of the MiniMig hardware is ... almost completely pointless.
The fact is that you could program whatever you like into the MiniMig. It's almost certainly a mere matter of time until someone has setup an Atari clone in one in fact many 68000 based machine could be replicated in it.
It was designed to do the job of providing an environment that the Amiga could be replicated in using the correct software.
Now the software might theoretically be somehow tainted enough that someone might be able to bring a case that got to court... maybe. The hardware however... I just can't see it being possible and I'd lend whatever coding ability I have to reproducing as many 68k based paltforms in the MiniMig hardware as is humanely possible just to muddy the waters if anyone tried :-D
Andy
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RoHS won't be a problem.
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Dennis wrote:
I have uploaded the original BOM to the download section on my site. You can download it here (http://home.hetnet.nl/~weeren001/downloads/minimig1_bom.txt).
Also, I have added a second page with some clarifications to the BOM here (http://home.hetnet.nl/~weeren001/minimig_building.html).
Dennis
Thanks Dennis that'll save me hunting around for the parts and should speed everything up :)
Glad to see you've still got time to see how things are slowly progressing!
Andy
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The board could be argued to be a plain FPGA developer board.
We sure talk a lot, but I have yet to see a real development community, maybe when everybody with verilog skills has a minimig they can open a closed message board to discuss any improvements and share code.
The only other thing that comes near being Amiga specific is the m68k and joystick ports.
near? I would say "far". The m68k was used on the atari st, the apple classic macintosh, the sharp x68000, the sega genesis and all of the above except the apple macintosh used the same de-9 joystick ports.
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little wrote:
The only other thing that comes near being Amiga specific is the m68k and joystick ports.
near? I would say "far". The m68k was used on the atari st, the apple classic macintosh, the sharp x68000, the sega genesis and all of the above except the apple macintosh used the same de-9 joystick ports.
Sega Genesis/Megadrive, totally forgot about that! Those things would be perfect for this and there's a metric tonne of emulators based around it out there. Brilliant! Change the files on the MMC and you've got another computer entirely.
Andy
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Also how about a FPGA socket for the Xilinx? Sockets for the other chips would be a good idea too...
That sort of socket is probably very expensive.
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The SMD caps and resistors should be in the 0805 package.
Any reason to care if resistors are thick or thin film?
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Dennis wrote:
I have uploaded the original BOM to the download section on my site.
Dennis
THANKS a million!
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That sort of socket is probably very expensive.
If a socket is to be included wouldn't it be better to use them for the RAM chips? So if someone later on want's to upgrade the RAM on their system it would be just a matter of changing the chips. I remember once adding two chips to the sockets my cirrus logic video PCI board. two MB is ok for basic emulation, to run some applications on the amiga eight mb would be better and for emulating other hardware up to 128mb would be required. Am I dreaming to much? :lol:
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Dennis wrote:
Also, I have added a second page with some clarifications to the BOM here (http://home.hetnet.nl/~weeren001/minimig_building.html).
Dennis
Woah - at first I just saw the 1st page and I was gutted! The only new info was the 1% resistor tolerance.
But then I saw the 2nd page! :-D
Thanks, Dennis! :-)
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Questions..
1. Do you provide a case for the board?
2. Will you specify the volts and amps required for the external DC power supply, so that us guys overseas can just wander into any old electronics store and buy an appropriate one?
3. Are you going to email us guys with prices and availability information when it comes to hand?
Thank you. :)
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1. Do you provide a case for the board?
I may be building the best minimig case ever. Mine is going to look something like this....
Plaz's minimig case. (http://www.webbpickersgill.com/mame/)
Mine looks a bit different, but you get the idea. I started building it about a month ago and I'm a little under half done. I plan to add mininig to the beast for awesome amiga-retro game play :-).
Pictures will be forthcoming as construction progesses.
Plaz
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Im def. looking fwd to getting a few boards and a list of parts..so I can built mine :-)
Thanks
Rich
ny
Long Live Amiga
Crom00 wrote:
tonyyeb wrote:
Is this what you need?
http://www.opencircuits.com/Minimig_Board_v1.0_components
Thank you brother! I just sent this to the factories, they will advise if it's good enough for costing. After that I'll assemble a complete BOM with all packaging, instruction sheet spces and pack in materials.
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Answers:
1) No Case tooling for a case is high... thousands to tens of thousands dollars just for the steel molds alone. Lots of design and debugging and it will add a few months to development time. We want to keep costs low. This is a specialty kit for hobbyists, a DIY type thing.
2) Aiming to devlier it witha US power supply and a 220 adapter for UK, no promises though.
3) If you're inrtested PM me. When or if the time comes we will notify you.
You're welcome
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Dennis wrote:
I have uploaded the original BOM to the download section on my site. You can download it here (http://home.hetnet.nl/~weeren001/downloads/minimig1_bom.txt).
Also, I have added a second page with some clarifications to the BOM here (http://home.hetnet.nl/~weeren001/minimig_building.html).
Dennis
Dennis, In addition to the Farnell part number for the Max232/SO16, Digikey 296-6936-5-ND
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Dennis, In addition to the Farnell part number for the Max232/SO16, Digikey 296-6936-5-ND
That part is not suitable for the Minimig. It is a 5V only part. You'll need a MAX232 (or clone) that is specified to operate at 3.3V with 0.1uF caps.
Dennis
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Flap, all Digikey's are 5 Volt.
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That part is not suitable for the Minimig. It is a 5V only part. You'll need a MAX232 (or clone) that is specified to operate at 3.3V with 0.1uF caps.
To the best of my knowledge the MAX232 (from MAXIM) is a 5V only part.
http://para.maxim-ic.com/cache/en/results/5021.html
The MAX3232 is the 3.3 - 5V part. Checking the datasheet for the MAX3232 against your schematics the pinout matches.
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For the power supply can't you get a 'univeral' power brick as is used by laptops and mini-itx computers. Then an adaptor wouldn't be need, just use the appropiate cable for the country your in.
Regards Neil.
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So the Digikey part, even though Digikey list it as a 5v part, it would work at the minimig's 3.3? or we HAVE to get the one from Farnell ?
Its a pity there is not *ONE* supplier to supply all the parts.
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A MAX232A (5V only) may work in the circuit but I wouldn't advise it.
A correct part number for the Maxim brand part is:
MAX3232CSE+ or MAX3232ESE+
see the data sheet:
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX3222-MAX3241.pdf
The CSE or ESE refer to
C = Operating Temperature Range C (0°C to +70°C)
S = Package Type S (SOIC 0.150")
E = Number of Pins category E (16 pins for this package)
or
E = Operating Temperature Range E (-40°C to +85°C)
S = Package Type S (SOIC 0.150")
E = Number of Pins category E (16 pins for this package)
The 3 in front of the 232 is what designates it as the low voltage compatible part.
If you look at other brands be very careful to check the pinouts and package size is the same.
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Dennis.
CT_100U/6.3V Farnell (1135233) is not showing up in the Farnell Database.
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I used these CAPs;
C1 C2 C9 C15 100UF 16V MINI ALUM ELECT (KA) Panasonic 4 P833-ND
C3 C10 C11 C12 C13 C20 C23 C24 C26 C31 C32 C33 C34 C38 C41 C42 C45 C50 C53 C54 C56 CAP 100nF 25V CERAMIC X7R 0805 Panasonic 21 PCC1828CT-ND
C4 C17 C27 C37 CAP TANTALUM 100UF 6.3V 10% SMD AVX Corp. 4 478-1677-1-ND
C5 C6 C7 C8 C16 C18 C19 C21 C22 C25 C28 C29 C30 C35 C36 C39 C40 C43 C44 C46 C52 C55 CAP 10nF 50V CERM CHIP 0805 Panasonic 22 PCC103BNCT-ND
C14 22UF 35V MINI ALUM ELECT (KA) Panasonic 1 P819-ND
C47 CAP 22PF 50V CERM CHIP 0805 SMD Panasonic 1 PCC220CNCT-ND
C49 C51 CAP 47PF 50V CERM CHIP 0805 SMD Panasonic 2 PCC470CGCT-ND
C48 CAP 100PF 50V CERM CHIP 0805 SMD Panasonic 1 PCC101CGCT-ND
Do these diodes look right?
D2 D3 D4 D5 D6 DIODE ULTRAFAST HI COND SOT-23 Fairchild Semiconductor 5 BAV99FSCT-ND
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The diodes look right (I think) according to the Schematics.
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T073/P1199.pdf (Diag 4A appears to be the same one) Digi P/N BAR43SCT-ND
[edit]
With the 0805 resistors, Parts list says Metal Film 1%, Digikey have them, but only 0.1% and 5% tolerance. 5% or 0.1% tolerance ?
After all 2k2 is 2200Ohms, but 2.2k is also 2200Ohms yes ?
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With the 0805 resistors, Parts list says Metal Film 1%, Digikey have them, but only 0.1% and 5% tolerance. 5% or 0.1% tolerance ?
Thick film, Metal film, Thin film. All would be fine here. pick whatever is cheapest/easiest to get.
After all 2k2 is 2200Ohms, but 2.2k is also 2200Ohms yes ?
Yes.
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Cool stuff, my only hesitation right now then, is the Push button switches.
What Switch is used, i was thinking "Momentary Tact"
Like Catalog page 1842, Figure 7. Plenty of different size button/Force ratings. http://pdfcatalog.digikey.com/T073/SectI.pdf
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I used these;
Button1 2 SWITCH TACT SPST 130GF VERT SEAL Cannon, ITT Industries 2 401-1828-ND
I used these resistors; cheap! 1%
R1 R15 R19 R21 R23 R51 RES 100 OHM 1/8W 1% 0805 SMD Dale/Vishay 6 541-100CCT-ND
R2 R3 R13 R18 R27 R29 R30 R31 R32 R33 R34 R41 R43 R44 R45 R46 R47 R48 R50 R52 R53 R56 R57 R58 R60 R61 R62 R66 RES 270 OHM 1/8W 1% 0805 SMD Dale/Vishay 28 541-270CCT-ND
R4 R5 R6 R8 R10 R16 R17 RES 560 OHM 1/8W 1% 0805 SMD Dale/Vishay 7 541-560CCT-ND
R7 R9 R11 R28 R54 R67 R68 RES 2.20K OHM 1/8W 1% 0805 SMD Dale/Vishay 7 541-2.20KCCT-ND
R12 R14 R35 R36 R37 R38 R39 R40 R42 R49 RES 100 OHM 1/8W 1% 0805 SMD Dale/Vishay 10 541-100CCT-ND
R20 R22 R24 R59 R63 R64 R65 RES 4.70K OHM 1/8W 1% 0805 SMD Dale/Vishay 7 541-4.70KCCT-ND
R25 R26 RES 180 OHM 1/8W 1% 0805 SMD Dale/Vishay 2 541-180CCT-ND
R55 RES 1.00M OHM 1/8W 1% 0805 SMD Dale/Vishay 1 541-1.00MCCT-ND
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Just keep an eye on both Farnell and Digikey pricings.
I am finding running Farnell in AU$ (My local currency), for some products, it is cheaper to buy in 50's, than it is to buy in 10's or 20's from Digikey.
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Colin_Camper wrote:
I used these;
Button1 2 SWITCH TACT SPST 130GF VERT SEAL Cannon, ITT Industries 2 401-1828-ND
Thanks Colin.. Looking at those now :)
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I'll check them out tonight with the PCB.
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In sourcing the Seven RES-805/1% 560 resistors...
Is this part suitable:
http://export.farnell.com/jsp/Passive+Components/Resistors,+Thermistors+&+Potentiometers/MULTICOMP/MC+0.1W+0805+1++560R/displayProduct.jsp?sku=9333363
I notice that the part numbers have R or K at the end, which one is better.
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Farnell link (fixed) (http://export.farnell.com/jsp/Passive+Components/Resistors,+Thermistors+&+Potentiometers/MULTICOMP/MC+0.1W+0805+1++560R/displayProduct.jsp?sku=9333363&_requestid=77391)
R = ohms
K = kiloohms
1r5 = 1.5 ohms
1k5 1500 ohms, 1.5k
-- edit, fixed my fixed link, lol
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560R is just 560 Ohms.
560K is 560Kilohms (560 Thousand ohms)
560M is 560Megohms (560 million Ohms, but resistors don't go that high) :)
Seven RES-805/1% 560 resistors
1% tolerance Resistors, 0805 Package (SMC), 560R
http://au.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=9333363
But they come in packs of 50, so for the 7 resistors, you have to buy the pack of 50.
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560M is 560Megohms (560 million Ohms, but resistors don't go that high) :)
Actually they go much higher: 6000000 M (thats 6000G or 6T).
http://www.vishay.com/resistors-discrete/res1G/
Must admit I have have never seen one in the flesh (unless it was called an insulator). I have seen and used 1Gig Ohm.
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nBit7 wrote:
I have seen and used 1Gig Ohm.
Oh yes, very useful, I could get a 0.1 ohm, tie one leg to ground, the other leg to a 1G, which would have the other side on an antenna, bridge the 0.1 with a 330 ohm wired in series with an LED..... then I'd have a nifty little device that warned me with an LED coming on if I was getting hit by lightning.
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RW222 wrote:
nBit7 wrote:
I have seen and used 1Gig Ohm.
Oh yes, very useful, I could get a 0.1 ohm, tie one leg to ground, the other leg to a 1G, which would have the other side on an antenna, bridge the 0.1 with a 330 ohm wired in series with an LED..... then I'd have a nifty little device that warned me with an LED coming on if I was getting hit by lightning.
Hahah, that post made my day.
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It's probably a better idea to use a piezo speaker for the warning, cos you wouldn't be able to see the LED when the lightning strikes :idea:
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RW222 wrote:
nBit7 wrote:
I have seen and used 1Gig Ohm.
Oh yes, very useful, I could get a 0.1 ohm, tie one leg to ground, the other leg to a 1G, which would have the other side on an antenna, bridge the 0.1 with a 330 ohm wired in series with an LED..... then I'd have a nifty little device that warned me with an LED coming on if I was getting hit by lightning.
Thats maybe something we can build after we have finished our Minimigs :-D
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Some parts arived today (Going to make 3 minimig's pcb's from ebay).
But I think the listed DC-CON 2.1mm DC Power Connectors are wrong.
The Listed parts from Farnell (224947) are not 2.1 mm connectors but 1.3 mm connectors SO BE WARE !!
I think the right one's are Farnell (224959)
Can anybody confirm this ??? if so the BOM.txt hase to be changed.
Well what i'm going to do whith the other two minimig'ies
I don't know, I just want one, it's just fun building him!!
I mean Her ! sorry miggie !
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Are the specs of this BAV99 okey to use ?
Infinion
DIODE, DUAL SOT-23
Voltage, Vrrm:70V; Current, If av:200mA; Case style:SOT-23; Application code:High speed; Common connection:; Configuration, diode:Dual; Current, If Vf:50mA; Current, If max:200mA; Current, Ifs max:4.5A
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Can somebody familiar with dikigey order system point me out how to order that damn black square for minimig??
I will need just ICs from digikey, as other parts i can source locally.
(http://chain.3dgrafika.cz/temp/digikey.png)
im stuck here, and rohs part isnt available imo
:boohoo:
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yeah i have the same probs on that site
maybe it is that u need to order a minimum of 24 and they only have 3?
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A few bits and bytes from my e-mail's to digi-key:
YOUR QUESTION: is the 122-1519-ND the same as a XC3S400-4PQ208c-nd
It appears that these almost the same part. The part you have quoted (XC3S400-4PQ208c-nd) is an internet nonstocking part. The minimum purchase requirement is 120 pieces and manufacturer lead times apply.
The 122-1519-ND is the same part but is the rohs compliant, lead free version. It is available in any amount you prefer.
Bottomline:
XC3S400-4PQ208c-nd only order in 120 units
122-1519-ND same thing order by 1 unit (yhea and lead free ) but backorder till 20-10-2007
cheers
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wizard66 wrote:
(yeay and lead free) but backorder till 20-10-2007
cheers
:-D THANKS for clear it for me.
I will just wait for rohs part whatever it means (unharmed pandas, ic legs with socks, maybe 8-) )
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rohs means lead free..
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wizard66 wrote:
Some parts arived today (Going to make 3 minimig's pcb's from ebay).
But I think the listed DC-CON 2.1mm DC Power Connectors are wrong.
The Listed parts from Farnell (224947) are not 2.1 mm connectors but 1.3 mm connectors SO BE WARE !!
I think the right one's are Farnell (224959)
This is exactly the sort of reason why someone should manually build a MiniMig first, before trying to get it manufactured, to ensure that the BOM is actually correct. Otherwise you'll get lots of very expensive paperweights manufactured :-(
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ChrisH wrote:
wizard66 wrote:
Some parts arived today (Going to make 3 minimig's pcb's from ebay).
But I think the listed DC-CON 2.1mm DC Power Connectors are wrong.
The Listed parts from Farnell (224947) are not 2.1 mm connectors but 1.3 mm connectors SO BE WARE !!
I think the right one's are Farnell (224959)
This is exactly the sort of reason why someone should manually build a MiniMig first, before trying to get it manufactured, to ensure that the BOM is actually correct. Otherwise you'll get lots of very expensive paperweights manufactured :-(
that was just my idea..if someone first build 1 and then make a proper list with all supliers and part numbers
that would speedup the building much more for everyone right?
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Yip Your right, Just 8 euro down the tubes
Now i have 10 DC power buggers useless on my desk.
Dutch ( en da's mooi klote)
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maybe for the dutch hobbyists its easyer to do some group sharing?
like wizard said he ordered 10 of 1 part? if we can make some
group sharing it saves some cash
and in dutch(ons zeeuw ben zunnig)
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The DC CON power connectors sales only by 10 units at farnell.
I have all resitor's all 100 units
I'm building 3 minimigs so for some resistors only 97 left in the bag !
(spijkenisse)
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if u have more double items u can sell them to me if u want?
what part of holland u live?
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willem is your name?
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amazing wrote:
if u have more double items u can sell them to me if u want?
what part of holland u live?
Spijkenisse near Rotterdam
Yhea I have some parts double ,but pinuts
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What online order shops gives the lowest price ..?
(while still keeping delivery times, good quality etc..)
Idea for EBay.. buy the components 10+, and then put together component kits.
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ha now i see who u are heheh
u sold me the infinitive and the blizzard
and all the 7000 floppys
maybe we can meet on a day to share some thoughts and parts
greets(enrico)
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freqmax wrote:
What online order shops gives the lowest price ..?
(while still keeping delivery times, good quality etc..)
Idea for EBay.. buy the components 10+, and then put together component kits.
I have a order at digi-key: the memory 68000 and the FPGA for 3 minimig's 165 euro incl. shipment but i want to see about the duty I have to pay the dutch goverment again :madashell:
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how much u have to pay for shipping?
i saw a bill of 60$us popping in my screen for a 20gram spartan?
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amazing wrote:
ha now i see who u are heheh
u sold me the infinitive and the blizzard
and all the 7000 floppys
maybe we can meet on a day to share some thoughts and parts
greets(enrico)
Hey Enrico still sorting out your floppies :crazy:
You have my number Dude !!!!
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amazing wrote:
how much u have to pay for shipping?
i saw a bill of 60$us popping in my screen for a 20gram spartan?
The trick is to order in euros so you do not have the coversion from euro to dollars.
I only payed euro 18,50 for shipment cost. for the lot
but she told me special prise you know :lol:
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heheh yeah i have your number
and i already have sold the lot to a other guy from down holland
i picked all good stuff out of it and am converting it to adf now..
and if u order more maybe we can share shipping or something
make it more cheaper for eachother :crazy:
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and if u order more maybe we can share shipping or something
make it more cheaper for eachother :crazy:
Almost 90% done or in order.
But I go to sleep now 1:28 PM (have to go to work around 6:00 PM).
So good night to all, I be here for a few weeks to come !
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wizard66 wrote:
The DC CON power connectors sales only by 10 units at farnell.
I have all resitor's all 100 units
I'm building 3 minimigs so for some resistors only 97 left in the bag !
(spijkenisse)
LOLZ, you are looking in the wrong place.
I got them listed 50 per bag, so I will only have 47 left over, for a Measley $1 per bag (50) and not the $10 you will probably pay for the 100. And the answer is, Do not order them from Digikey.
/me quickly bangs off an order to secure those three remaining FPGA's. (You just need to know how to sweet talk Digikey to have them waiver the minimum order of 120).
Oh and if Farnell only want you to buy a bag of 10, then buy ONE OFF for .42 from Digikey.
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Okay guys, Dennis has ALTERED the BOM on us once again (I don't know why).
The MAX232A/SO16 has now been changed to SP3232EUCN. Which Digikey online search does not yield results. But no fear, I found a replacement :crazy:
Lets see how long it takes you guys to find it.
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LOLZ, you are looking in the wrong place.
I got them listed 50 per bag, so I will only have 47 left over, for a Measley $1 per bag (50) and not the $10 you will probably pay for the 100. And the answer is, Do not order them from Digikey.
Strange: I payed $1,42 100 per bag on ebay 0805 1% :-D
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Oh Fairy Snuff. (Fair Enough).
Thats about what I am paying through an Online Distributor (Not Digikey). (About AU$1.50).
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Oh and by the way, I have made "inquiries" into obtaining those three FPGA's from Digikey without the 120 Bulk order.
We shall see.
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whiteb wrote:
Okay guys, Dennis has ALTERED the BOM on us once again (I don't know why).
The MAX232A/SO16 has now been changed to SP3232EUCN. Which Digikey online search does not yield results. But no fear, I found a replacement :crazy:
Lets see how long it takes you guys to find it.
The right DC-Con's are also on the BOM now:
DC_CON 2.1mm DC power connector (DC10A) Farnell (224959, 10 per package)
So What's the replacement farnell is not having the SP3232EUCN??
Hope dennis is checking the bom list from a to z because i have now the MAX232A/SO16's and de DC-Cons taking up space on my desk (darn)
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Yeah but you have to buy a pack of 10 from Farnell, I have found Digikey's One only price version.
CP-102AH-ND (0.49 each), no minimum. How much do Farnell want for a pack of 10 ? (I run my Farnell in AUD) $17.80 for a pack of 10, $1.78 each. What are you going to do with 10 ?
DIGIKEY do not have the SP3232, Farnell do. (9386955)
Hope dennis is checking the bom list from a to z because i have now the MAX232A/SO16's and de DC-Cons taking up space on my desk (darn)
Why do you think I held off. Thats why I am *NOW* building my order lists with the companies.
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whiteb wrote:
What are you going to do with 10 ?
DIGIKEY do not have the SP3232, Farnell do. (9386955)
Build more minimig's :lol:
Thank for de SP3232
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Mebay you can point me to the right bav99 on farnell it's a puzzel to me ?
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wizard66 wrote:
Mebay you can point me to the right bav99 on farnell it's a puzzel to me ?
Then get them from Digikey, 13c each BAV99FSCT-ND
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HEY, just a thought.
What is the maximum storage MMC cards (The actual storage) for Minimig, I think the Pic is programmed for Fat16 right, so 2GIG or 4GIG ?
2 GIG should be *PLENTY* of storage for ADF's to keep people occupied for a while. Isnt Fat16 file limitations 8.3, and 512 entries ?
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Does anyone have any idea if:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=122-1520-ND
is compatible (no changes to the rev1.1 pcb) with 122-1519-ND?
If it is just a matter of recompiling the core and maybe adjust it a little bit it might actually be worth it...
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hifibonsai wrote:
Does anyone have any idea if:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=122-1520-ND
is compatible (no changes to the rev1.1 pcb) with 122-1519-ND?
If it is just a matter of recompiling the core and maybe adjust it a little bit it might actually be worth it...
The 122-1519-ND is the same part but is the rohs compliant, lead free version. It is available in any amount you prefer. but only availble at 10-20-2007 so a backorder is possilble I have 3 in backorder :-D
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See the other thread on 500E part. (It's not XC3S400 pin-compatible.)
http://www.opencircuits.com/Xilinx_XC3S400_and_XC3S500E_pin_comparison
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Does anyone have any idea if:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=122-1520-ND
is compatible (no changes to the rev1.1 pcb) with 122-1519-ND?
If it is just a matter of recompiling the core and maybe adjust it a little bit it might actually be worth it...
No, that part is not compatible!! The Spartan 3E is not pin compatible to the classic Spartan 3.
Dennis
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wizard66 wrote:
hifibonsai wrote:
Does anyone have any idea if:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=122-1520-ND
is compatible (no changes to the rev1.1 pcb) with 122-1519-ND?
If it is just a matter of recompiling the core and maybe adjust it a little bit it might actually be worth it...
The 122-1519-ND is the same part but is the rohs compliant, lead free version. It is available in any amount you prefer. but only availble at 10-20-2007 so a backorder is possilble I have 3 in backorder :-D
Sorry but I asked a different thing. ;-)
Is 122-1520-ND (XC3S500E-4PQG208C) compatible with 122-1519-ND (XC3S400-4PQG208C)?
The two are not the same (two different Spartan3/3E models, one optimized for I/O, the other for logic), but on the documentation they seem to imply that they are "electrically compatible". Can anyone confirm they would work pretty much the same (apart from having to recompile the core)?
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Sorry but I asked a different thing. ;-)
sorry i'm i bit blind i think :crazy:
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@ Dennis
Is it possible to put the vendors and part numbers behind the components on the bom list?
Just like in the list for the critical parts?
I think that save a lot of trouble for all and questions.
Just for example there is no where to find how much volts the capacitors must be!
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Guys, Digikey 122-1519-ND for the FPGA are back in stock, with 200 in store.
Lets see if us Amiga people can clean them out. I just been chatting with them on their Webchat about it.
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wizard66 wrote:
@ Dennis
Is it possible to put the vendors and part numbers behind the components on the bom list?
Just like in the list for the critical parts?
I think that save a lot of trouble for all and questions.
Just for example there is no where to find how much volts the capacitors must be!
3.3 and 5v design. Pick ~20v caps. Look at the schematic, where it really matters he clearly states what v for caps in the schematic.
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Dennis wrote:
Does anyone have any idea if:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=122-1520-ND
is compatible (no changes to the rev1.1 pcb) with 122-1519-ND?
If it is just a matter of recompiling the core and maybe adjust it a little bit it might actually be worth it...
No, that part is not compatible!! The Spartan 3E is not pin compatible to the classic Spartan 3.
Dennis
Ciao,
Ok, thanks (and thanks for the minimig!). I was hoping that by disabling some of the components (for example I don't care about sound) it would have been possible to free the incompatible pins, but looks like it's not feasible.
Thanks anyways!
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Just a side track, has anyone got a fully compiled Minimig core ?
Dennis only has the Source on his website, which means it needs to be Compiled.
Same goes for Pic Controller Firmware.
Dennis said he would put them up on his Website, but I guess he is a bit busy at the moment.
Power, have we worked out the power requirements ? I know it is 5V But whats the Max current 1A ? (or something like that ?) I know that if it draws 500ma, then a 1A powerpack will be fine, i do not just want to UNDER SUPPLY the thing.
I want to make sure I have at least a variable Powerpack to get mine up and running.
[edit] I also noticed from the Schematic, that according to the LM1117 datasheet, they recommend a 10uF Capacitor on the Voltage input SOurce, but Dennis has a 100uF, my thought is by having a Capacitor that is 10 times the capacitance, he *REALLY* wants to eliminate noise on the board. (Which I can understand, Given that the chipset timings would be SEVERELY hampered by any noise.)
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But there is also two LM1117 linear regulators that use it. It does however not hurt with excess capacity.
I have noticed that +5V is unfiltered:
http://www.opencircuits.com/Image:Minimig_v10_board_main_pwr.png
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whiteb wrote:
Just a side track, has anyone got a fully compiled Minimig core ?
Dennis only has the Source on his website, which means it needs to be Compiled.
I have created an ISE 8.1 project and compiled the Verilog into a .bit file for the Spartan3 FPGA. It took way over an hour on a 2Gz PC.
:-)
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Oh right, so thats the file that the Microprogrammer uses to flash the FPGA right, because I cannot make any sense out of Xilinx ISE 9.2 software. And i got a 2.1Ghz dual core.
And the Pic Firmware, I tried Hi-Tech Picc lite, but it appears to only support 16 series Pic's not Series 18.
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That is Correct.
The bit file is the binary FPGA data. The bit file will need to be placed on an SD card for the PIC micrcontroller to read and download it serially into the Spartan3 FPGA.
:-)
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they recommend a 10uF Capacitor on the Voltage input SOurce, but Dennis has a 100uF, my thought is by having a Capacitor that is 10 times the capacitance, he *REALLY* wants to eliminate noise on the board.
The 100uF will only be good with low frequency ripple (something that the regulator is good at). To get rid of noise ( due to input rejection ratio) you would need a low capacitance tantalum or ceramic (ie low ESR and ESL). Having a large reservoir cap is a good thing. But ideally a 1uF to 10uF tantalum (or maybe a 100nF to 1uF ceramic) should back it up to provide for the high di/dt loads of this type of circuit. With engineering there is always a trade off. Higher capacitance tends to means lower performance in other areas.
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And the Pic Firmware, I tried Hi-Tech Picc lite, but it appears to only support 16 series Pic's not Series 18.
That's correct there is no free c compiler that supports the PIC18 series.
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Alrighty, so I am back to Hoping Dennis is not to busy to upload a pre-compiled version some time soon then :(
Care to share your compiled core ?? :)
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I can share the compiled core that was created from Xilinx ISE ; however, I did not check the final pin mappings for the Spartan3 which should be ok since I used Dennis's UCF file. The real issue is that I have no place to upload these files ....
:-)
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You can email it to me or use a Free file share site, like Rapidshare.
I found a DEMO C compiler, that supports 18f252, but not 18LF252. I test ran the compiler and its complaining about not finding hardware.h, which is not in the archive, yet main.c refrences to it. See this is why i did not learn C :)
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whiteb wrote:
You can email it to me or use a Free file share site, like Rapidshare.
upload @ Rapidshare please so all can use it ! thanks
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This is only temporary until Dennis posts the Core and compiled PIC code on his site.
I would compile the core myself, if I actually knew what the Frag I was doing with the Xilinx software.
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I will post the FPGA compiled core that was created from Xilinx ISE later today on rapid share.
:-)
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From http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31510
Quote:
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Plaz wrote:
Quote:
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The biggest hit, was $70USD postage from Digikey. (FPGA, Ram etc).
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So do you have a copy of that parts invoice from digikey? I'm thinking I could just place the same order with my account.
Plaz
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Yes I do.
You could probably get a large number of the items from Digikey, but it was easier (And cheaper for me) to get SOME items from Farnell in AU$.
From Digikey, I got.
122-1519-ND (FPGA)
706-1048-ND (SRAM)
MC68SEC000AA16-ND (CPU)
PIC18LF252-I/SP-ND (PIC)
296-8326-5-ND (74HC4060)
P833-ND (100uf 16V elect)
PCC1828CT-ND (.1UF 0805)
478-1617-1-ND (Tant 100uf 6.3V)
PCC103BNCT (10000pf 0805)
P819-ND (22uF 35V elect)
PCC220CNCT (22pf 0805)
PCC470CGCT-ND (100pf 0805)
Cp-102AH-ND (Power jack)
160-1579-1-ND (Blue Led)
L6241CT-ND (Red Led)
160-1414-1-ND (Green LED)
401-1828-ND (Push button Switch)
BAV99FSCT-ND (Sot23 Diode)
AE9828-ND (IC Socket for PIC)
Farnell:
1200113 (PS2)
9778187 (LM117MP-ADJ)
1099289 (9Pin R/A Female for Serial, and Joy)
9712739 (4.33619 xtal)
9712755 (20 mhz Xtal)
9333363 (560R)
1160303 (1M Res)
9332383 (1000R)
9332812 (2K2/2.2K Resistor)
9333266 (4k7 Res)
9332375 (100R)
9332936( 270R)
9332707 (180R)
1215639 (Dsub 15 R/A for VGA)
1248135 (2x5 header)
3418297 (1x3 Header)
3417888 (1x6 Header, Jtag)
9386947 (RS-232, this is the *NEW* suggested Item from Dennis)
9186212 (MMC)
152204 (3.5 Jack, Audio)
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I have updated my website with binary versions of the PIC code and the FPGA core. Also, I have put up some building tips.
Dennis
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Dennis wrote:
I have updated my website with binary versions of the PIC code and the FPGA core. Also, I have put up some building tips.
Dennis
Thanks for the binaries Dennis :-D
Saves compiling hours. :crazy:
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Somehow I have messed up my order.
My 15 pin (For VGA) is *NOT* a HIGH DENSITY.............
Its a normal density.
HIGH DENSITY is P/N 107-5303 (Farnell).
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whiteb wrote:
Guys, Digikey 122-1519-ND for the FPGA are back in stock, with 200 in store.
Lets see if us Amiga people can clean them out. I just been chatting with them on their Webchat about it.
Looks there out of stock again.!!
we clean them out :crazy:
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CRIKEY !!!!!!!!!!!!.
Digikey must be wondering what the rush is on them :).
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whiteb wrote:
CRIKEY !!!!!!!!!!!!.
Not Crikey!!!! but Digi-key!!!! LOL
I'ts a same farnell is not having the Spartan-3
I hope Digikey get them sone again....
My spartan's, memory and 68000 are @ customs now !!!
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Hi!
I`ve got a question: From the bill of material:
6 RES_0805/1% 2K2 R7
1 RES_0805/1% 2.2K R54
What`s the difference between 2K2 and 2.2K? Isn`t it the same?
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EL121 wrote:
Hi!
I`ve got a question: From the bill of material:
6 RES_0805/1% 2K2 R7
1 RES_0805/1% 2.2K R54
What`s the difference between 2K2 and 2.2K? Isn`t it the same?
Aye Laddy. :) BOTH 2k2 and 2.2k are equally 2200R
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I have my fist minimig running...
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=365299#post365299
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@wizard66,
Congrats, I am still waiting for my PCB to arrive (damn postal strike).
I still need a complete "Bill of Materials" that I can send to a supplier to order all the parts and a clear layout of where each part goes on the PCB. (I know both probably already exist, but I have not found where yet).
I think I should have ordered more than one PCB.
If anyone else is buying parts and needs to have a co-buyer because some of the parts must be bought in lots of more than one, let me know and I will join them in their purchase.
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Minimig two also completed.
One is on ebay : '
http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250177685711&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=015
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wizard66 wrote:
Minimig two also completed.
One is on ebay : '
http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250177685711&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=015
Great job!
I want to order the capacitors 10nF, 100nF, 22pF, 47pF, 100pF
These are available with different voltages. Which voltage did you use?
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That comes to 321.28 USD with the shipping added into the total.
I am sure it is a fair price considering the assembly time involved, but it is a bit high for me to pay for a fully assembled Minimig.
I will just have to count on me being able to complete one for myself, once my Minimig PCB finally arrives.
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Well, if Dennis says to use a 16V electrolytic then if you used a 25V in the place, then this is fine. Just means you have more of a head room.
If you used a 5V capacitor in a circuit that needs a 16v, you pop the cap *VERY* quickly.
Some of the capacitors I have here are 50v.
Just do not have the boards.
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amigadave wrote:
That comes to 321.28 USD with the shipping added into the total.
I am sure it is a fair price considering the assembly time involved, but it is a bit high for me to pay for a fully assembled Minimig.
I will just have to count on me being able to complete one for myself, once my Minimig PCB finally arrives.
Hi Dave
When did you order your boards ? I ordered mine on the 4th, and I am still waiting. It is Friday afternoon, here in Australia and they did not turn up with todays mail, thats 2 weeks so far.
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EL121 wrote:
wizard66 wrote:
Minimig two also completed.
One is on ebay : '
http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250177685711&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=015
Great job!
I want to order the capacitors 10nF, 100nF, 22pF, 47pF, 100pF
These are available with different voltages. Which voltage did you use?
I Have used 50 volt caps..
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Ok, thanks to both of you!