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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: hppacito on November 16, 2005, 06:56:29 AM
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Hallo everyone,
As I'm in the process of developing a new accelerator for A500s and A600, in the performance range 10 to 15 MIPS, based on a ColdFire chip.
The prototypes will be quite light in features (ColdFire, ram, flash, 68k connector, maybe ide port). But I'd like to make something better suited for day-today use.
The idea is:
SDRAM soldered to the MB (because DIMMs are 64 bits, so 1/2 would be wasted) 16/32/64/128 MB (decide the best number)
IDE port, 2 devices with DMA support.
CF port.
10/100 Ethernet port
any ideas ?
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hppacito wrote:
based on a ColdFire chip.
Which one?
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Maybe an onboard RTG chip. Even if it's a simple one (like S3 Virge + 4MB or other basic sets), it would be very nice. What kind of price would you expect for such a product?
How realistic is such a project? I do not mean IF it would be useful (to me it would definitly be and probably others too, and I would be in the market for one) but HOW sure are you that you can release such a product?
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The prototype will be done with a MFC5206E with 4 or 8 MB SRAM.
The following will be with a MFC5271, MFC5208 or MFC5407. I'll decide at a later stage. I'm more inclined with the first two.
How realistic ?, mmm, I'll know after the prototype is done. Anyway I'm planning to do small runs, 5 or 10 boards at a time.
An estimated price, just for the parts rounds 80 Euro or so (+- 30%). As we say in my country "at flying pig".
Btw. The software emulator will be under the GPL.
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Sounds interesting. In what kind of time will you be able to build your prototype?
Just another idea: some flashchip area to replace the kickrom so we can have a 3.9 kickrom
You mention a software emulator. What kind of structure will it be? Will it work like some kind of co-processor or will the processor emulate a 680x0 processor?
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I would be interested.
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Interested!!!!
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Of course, I'd be interested in one for the A500 {will you be able to make such a device fit in an A600?).
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About the memory, make sure it´s 128 Mb, not less :lol:
The IDE port, to avoid power problems you can mount CompactFlash-to-IDE interface. Is fast enough and doesn´t consume power :-)
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For the proto I need to buy some components, make a PCB ;-). Roughtly a couple of months.
This will work as a replacement for the original processor. So
the emulator will run 68020 software, enough to be able to run OS 3.9 (processor-wise).
Native drivers for the IDE controller and ethernet, should bring better load times than the integrated IDE or external HD in the case of the A500, and better connectivity. A native stack may be can also be implemented.
The A600 has only some space constraints, but basically is very similar to the A500, and the same technique can be used to release the processor. The problem arises because the processor is PLCC and is soldered.
The flash will have the simulator, the kickstart will be copied to fast memory and run from there.
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It would be too expensive to make one that will fit both A500 and A600 since the A600 has a square PLCC surface mount 68000 and the A500 has the Rectangular socketed DIL 68000.
Keep it to A500/CDTV/A2000 if I were you.
Unless you are a PCB designer I very much doubt that you'll ever get this done. The NRE for such a project will be 2 or 3x the amount of money you'll ever make.
K.I.S.S. "Keep it simple stupid". Go with an ultra simple CPU + RAM only design to start with.
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I would be happy when there was a cheap board that adds 4MB of fastram and clips over the A600's CPU.
It would allow me to play WHDLOAD games and have the PCMCIA free.
It is just a fasram upgrade and that is much easier to accomplish. If you'd create that you might even finish it some day.
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Thought I had to get rid of my 3 A500´s but if you are really gonna make that board then I shall surely keep them !!!
You mentionned a CF slot ? Guess you can dump that for the A600 version as it already has a pcmcia port and CF adapters are really cheap these days.
But one question, what about the Chip Ram ??? Most A500´s only have got 512 Mb Ram, A500+ has got 1 Mb Chip ... does your project include 2 Mb Chip like the A1200 ??? :-?
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hppacito wrote:
Btw. The software emulator will be under the GPL.
Well this is the most interesting part. Do you write the emulator ? Or is there allready such an emulator available under GPL for the embeded system marked for those that switch over from the 68k line ?
The 68k Emulationlayer is what gives me the most doubt about the feasability of the Dragon.
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OK, I believe that the whole project can't really be done easily. Jens is planning for quite some time a new A600 board and he's done a GREAT deal of work in CAD. Maybe he'll manage to produce it ! (I hope!)
Working in a Coldfire project by yourself will need a great deal of inventment for producing these boards.
I hope that I'm wrong and everything will be smooth in creating this accelerator for any of A500 or A600 miggys.
Good luck anyway
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@alexh:
If you can not do it, doesn't mean that no one else can not do it. Try to remember that before you post next time.
(With regard to KISS, I know the principle, pls: read about proto).
Rest:
Regarding the amount of many that costs, can be sell to. As is a hobbyst project, not a "I wanna make zillons of Euros with it nd save myself", I'll risk the money to make a proto and a final version. That's why the idea of small runs if somebody else is interested.
A500/A600 issue:
If from the start both processors are taken into account, that can be accoplished without that much trouble. But the limits of the board should be kept in mind.
A600 memory expansion:
That is not at all that difficult to make. (Wondering which DRAM chips are still available at low cost...). I'll see What can be done.
Emulationlayer: Everything depends on how fast you want it to run. If 1 MIPS is enough, can be done perfectly, if you want 100... let's look to something else.
Chipram: without a new Agnus... more than 1MB is a bit tricky. I'm not planning anything here.
Will be great to have a new A600. The custom chips, should be feasible in FPGA. I don't know if the amount of info available is enough to sytesize them. I wish I knew.
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Hi
Count me in for a 500 one. Id love a faster 500, my favorite Amiga!
Good Luck with it. Keep us all posted with the progress.
Robert
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@hppacito
Count me in for at least one! And Jens, if you're reading, please, please do the A600 project....bitte
Also, I wouldn't mess with Colffire. My suggestion would be to make a 68040/68060 board with jumper selectable processor. You could ship the board w/o processor and let the user install his/her available chip. Also, 128MB ram is *highly* recommended as would some kind of ide/scsi port. RTG would be cool but, that's going to be a busy card.
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I'll settle for an 020, standard SIMM socket (most of us have SIMMS lying around) and a CF slot. Problem solved, that is a nice A500 then.
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There is actually an auction on Ebay germany now (ending in 3 hours or so) selling 330 (!!!!) 68EC020 chips, factory sealed actually meant for a C= A1200 order.....
Shame it is Germany only.... Could be a nice base for an accelerator...
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@hhpacito
Hi there!
Would definitely Definitely Definitely be interested............but Why ColdFire? theres no Software for it on the Amiga.
I really think it would be beter if it was a 68060 or 68040 with some sort of Extra ChipRam and 16 Million colors still via RGB port and in NTSC or PAL video OUT (Not RTG) kinda like a souped up Graffiti Card but internally on the board your designing with Workbench drivers of course......this would make a Super High powered Amiga ready for Desktop Video as it was meant to be.....Maybe as Good as a Toaster? thats what mattes most....as everythig else wll fall through............Games would look awesome..........Apllications will look awesome and run smooth.........imagine running DVD video on such a board.........its all possible and I think you could do it. There is ways of Cheating bigtime and saving tons of cash...............for instance............how does a company manage to make DVD players (With obviously DVD decoding hardware) and sell the DVD players for $39.00? Ive seen even cheaper than that............so all one has to do is add these same cheap chips to the A600/A500 upgrade board and walla! I would be willing to pay an extra $39.00 just for that!.........its kinda like what Dirk Conrad did with the MASPlayer MP3 decoder for the parrallel port.........supposedly these are the same chips found in portable MP3 players..............
It can be Done! Dont follow what every one else says....plus negative comments saying "Its Impossible" it is not!
I believe one can accomplish such a board including all the Features I said plus 256Mb RAM minimum and release it for $95.00...................nevertheless, I would be willing to pay double that for such a board.
Think of it as a Graffiti with 8Mb chipram, CD32 FMV card with MP3 and MPEG2, and 68060 board all rolled into one.
Good Luck!
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Count also with me for a a500 one. I definitely would want to see my 500 accelerated and upgraded this way.
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@leirbag28:
I'd love if every comment is like yours ! :-)
The only 060 that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, is the EC060 @50MHz, only 88.79 for qty: 1000 !. Here, they run for a bit more :-(, and units.
Those cheap DVD players... Or they are stolen, or they get some kind of license. But volumes are what count regarding electronics.
Look, a 512kx8 SRAM chip costs 4.7 Euro per unit, if you go to 100, the cost just 3.20 Euro.
I'm auctioning for those EC020, hope I get 'em. I don't want to resell them, most stuff I think is bought by resellers, how is that they have 1000s of items purchased then ?, unglaublich 8-)
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I'd be in for one for sure...
I like the idea of onboard RTG too! Fantastic Ideas, I hope it works out!
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@hppacito
If you can not do it, doesn't mean that no one else can not do it.
I am not saying I couldnt do it, or that you couldnt do it. I am an ASIC engineer, I've worked on multi-layer Set-top-box PCB's in the past. I have access to Protel, Orcad etc. I am sure that I could do it, but I have no real incentive to do it.
In my opinion, and it's just that, it's too complicated for a first time project. What you are planning will take a long time, require a great investment of time and money and in the long run there is no real chance of any recompensation, and lots of chance it will require an expensive re-spins.
I would say all of this if it was a 680x0 board, but a coldfire board makes it 2x as risky again.
The FAST RAM expansion for A600's on the otherhand is a very feasible idea. The PCB will be relatively simple, the cost to produce will be very low, you stand a greater chance of enjoying such a project, finishing, and even though there are not that many A600's out there you stand a good chance of selling a few.
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@alexh:
great !
I am not saying I couldnt do it, or that you couldnt do it. I am an ASIC engineer, I've worked on multi-layer Set-top-box PCB's in the past. I have access to Protel, Orcad etc. I am sure that I could do it, but I have no real incentive to do it.
But I have the incentive to do it. ;-)
I have 10 years of experience with microprocessors, and already did quite a bit of things that more than one thought that were unachivable, anyway I know the risks, I know takes time, and I know takes money. I'm willing to, between some boundaries, put them.
Everything is expensive, but if nothing is done, we don't get anything. And companies don't seem too worried to release something.
The fast ram expansion is of course quite doable. I already considered it. But cheap, cheap, I don't think it is. may be 30 or 40 Euro. Anyway I wanted to do it from day 1, so it is in my pipeline (see my first post).
Let's see, may be you want to colaborate somehow.
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hppacito wrote:
I'm auctioning for those EC020, hope I get 'em. I don't want to resell them, most stuff I think is bought by resellers, how is that they have 1000s of items purchased then ?, unglaublich 8-)
Go for it! Hope you get them, it's a nice start! I thought of bidding, but now I won't...
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If you are determined to do it, even if it ends up just your own Prototype, talk to Oliver Hannaford-Day, creator of the great CDTV webpage and the last coldfire project.
http://www.cdtv.org.uk/coldfire/1154.html
He was trying to do a coldfire A3000/A4000 accelerator, but software and other things prevented it's release.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigacoldfire/
He'll be able to help no-end with ideas and how to overcome board related problems.
If you could find a relatively cheap source of E41J 68060 CPU's (the ones that can clock at upto 100MHz) then I would recommend a design with one of those instead of a coldfire. You eliminate the headache of software compatibility.
Also speak to Rodolphe of czuba-tech. He recently did an 060 based design for the Atari Falcon and used an FPGA/CPLD to create an SDRAM controller.
http://www.czuba-tech.com/CT60/english/overview63.htm
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A simple fastram expantion around 40 euro's is something I would buy. Having an 030 board in an A600 is nice but I'm interested in whdload gaming and then all I need is some fastram.
The advantage of having only 4M is that the PCMCIA is still usable.
Perhaps you could add one thing to attract more buyers; an MP3 decoder.
Then the MAS player won't be needed. The decoder could be fed data using some glue logic via a free address in the memory map of the A600. Perhaps where the clockport is on the A1200.
Edit: ofcourse the buyer would be required to connect the audio output of the decoder to something. That could be a drawback but on the other hand creates the hack factor we all love so much ;)
But you must be carefull not to make the board too complex since that is what makes it feasable and affordable.
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The advantage of having only 4M is that the PCMCIA is still usable.
Edit:
Yeah unfortunately the standard A600's address range is limited to 24-bits (16Mbytes)
$000000-$07FFFF Chip RAM
$080000-$1FFFFF Reserved
$200000-$5FFFFF Fast-RAM (4Mbyte)
$600000-$9FFFFF PCMCIA (4Mbyte)
$A00000-$BEFFFF Reserved
$BFD000-$BFDF00 PIA B (even addresses)
$BFE001-$BFEF00 PIA C (odd addresses)
$C00000-$DFEFFF Reserved for expansion
$DFF000-$DFFFFF Custom chip registers
$E00000-$E7FFFF Reserved
$E80000-$EFFFFF Expansion ports
$F00000-$F7FFFF Reserved
$F80000-$FFFFFF System ROM
4Mbytes of FAST RAM (6Mbytes in total) is more than enough for a good WHDLoad system.
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Do not solder RAM on it, that is a big mistake, why not install 1 SoDimm slot?
I would be very insterested :)
A Fast RAM card would be very cool. Would it only be limited to 4MB or could it be 8MB and still have the PCMCIA usable?
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alexh wrote:
The advantage of having only 4M is that the PCMCIA is still usable.
Edit:
Yeah unfortunately the standard A600's address range is limited to 24-bits (16Mbytes)
Yes I know. But 4M would still stay clear of the PCMCIA. 8M will clash. But perhaps the MP3 trick can be done using one of the so calles reserved spaces. I don't know where the A1200 clock space resides. But I thought it was withil 68000 addressable range.
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Hmm, if it was going to be a CPU upgrade, than I would want an 030 as a minimum - the CPU must have an MMU, this enables the running of Debian 68k, should anyone want to ;-)
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Skip the Coldfire and RTG, just concentrate on
a 680x0 CPU and some Fast-RAM (soldered onboard
limits to 4MB, because of the PCMCIA problem. But
with a simm socket it can handle quite more RAM.)
Keep in mind that a 68040 CPU runs very hot, so that's
not a good option in a small case like the A500/A600.
It would be cool to put in a 68060 though...I be willing to pay 150 Euro for such a thingy!
:-)
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Argus wrote:
Also, I wouldn't mess with Colffire. My suggestion would be to make a 68040/68060 board with jumper selectable processor. You could ship the board w/o processor and let the user install his/her available chip. Also, 128MB ram is *highly* recommended as would some kind of ide/scsi port. RTG would be cool but, that's going to be a busy card.
I agree with you, a socket for user's 040-060 CPU is the best option. I'd also like to see SIMM sockets there as SIMM modules are dirt-cheap these days and provide more than adequate performance.
And yes, please go for the A600 project !!! :-)
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Would it be possible to include a scsi add-on??
I would buy this accelerator for sure!!!!
Count me in!!
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So guys (and girls ;-)), i got the 330 ec020, i'll put them in a a500 and a600 accelerator with 4MB SRAM (for the price, and speed gain, I think is worth over dram).
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Sounds like an good idea but i wonder too about the market and its demands etc.
But i would buy one thats for sure.
:-D
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@hppacito
Hmmm Im not sure what everyone her is talking about saying the A600 is limited to 4Mb....thats NOT true.........the A600 can have 256Mb and still use the PCMCIA slot for 4Mb, at the very least 32mb.
I had an Apolo 630 with 32mb ram and PCMCIA Ram card.they both worked simultaneously......so if you were to creat a 68030 or better...it would definitely read more than 4MB...if your just gonna make a board that adds 4MB, that is a waste as there are plenty of 4Mb PCMCIA cards availble..people here just dont know where to look for them.
Please dont settle for a measly 4mb. We need 128Mb in that thing minimum. and at least a 68030 @50mhz, and also dont put RAM on it.....make a slot for up to 1GB of ram, or at least 256........and dont make 2 versions ( like a light version and a high end version) just make one! a top of the line version..it will be easier, and save money....its what we need............and we can compete in todays market with a 68060 Amiga with Wireless (Yes they have that) and MP3 decoding and all. Chatting on Yahoo, AIM, MSN, IRC.
I want to take my machine to Starbucks Darn it! :-)
Get together with whoever you must to accomplish this................like Jens Shoenfeld, he is palnning on creating the Apollo 630 line again.he also gave us the A600 clockport for USB upgrades.......I am a proud owner of one :-)
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Well, the 020s are bought, so that settles it. I am glad. Count me in for an 020 with a SIMM socket. If it has IDE or CF I will be REALLY happy. I am willing to wait for it too.
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hppacito wrote:
So guys (and girls ;-)), i got the 330 ec020, i'll put them in a a500 and a600 accelerator with 4MB SRAM (for the price, and speed gain, I think is worth over dram).
Well, 68EC020 it is. But please put a 72-pin simm socket on it instead of soldered SRAM chips. Everybody and his brother can get a hold of el cheapo 4MB simms so you save money there. Also, an unpopulated plcc socket for a 68882 floating point unit is an absolute must (still can't understand why this was not soldered onto the A1200 motherboard, especially when Amiga Technologies decided to reproduce them).
@leirbag
Looks like you'll have to wait for Jens for something more powerful, at least for the A600. You could always keep your eyes peeled for a used Derringer for the A500.
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Sounds great, hope you can do it, I'll be dusting off my 500
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The A600 with stock 68000 does not support more than 16MB so 256MB is definately impossible. It would need a 32-bit CPU for that so for a RAM only upgrade we are probably looking at 4MB or 8MB if the PCMCIA issue is kept in mind.
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If it works in the A500, chances are it'll also work in the A2000, and that is of far more use to me (tho I own both). In the interest of cost effectiveness, 32MB of SDRAM is plenty. Dual channel IDE would be awesome. No need for CF, since there are plenty of CF2IDE adapters out there. Ethernet is a nice idea, but USB would be better.
Now what would REALLY kick @$$ would be a PCI bus on the accellerator... Then use a cable connected between the accellerator and a "PCI dummy" card to plug into a PCI backplane mounted either internally (on say an A2k) or externally in a PCI expansion tower (A500/600).
Of course you'd have to buffer the connection at both ends, and shield the hell out of the cable... I think this would be WAY faster than any current PCI solution since it'd be connected directly to the local bus of the accellerator.
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Aww man... Now that I've read the whole thread, and I see we're chickening out on the ColdFire... I'll restate...
EC020... Ok...
Unsoldered RAM, I like the idea of SODIMM connector for the tight space of A500s.
Dual channel IDE preferred, but even one channel would be fine.
** LOCAL BUS CONNECTOR for future expansion. **
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hppacito wrote:
So guys (and girls ;-)), i got the 330 ec020, i'll put them in a a500 and a600 accelerator with 4MB SRAM (for the price, and speed gain, I think is worth over dram).
I would be so happy if we could have another accelerator for the A600!!!! :banana:
I would certanly buy one :-D :-D :-D
IMHO a 14 mhz 68EC020 is great + add 4 mb ram. Also it is possible to add an additional 1 MBytes (or even 1.5 Mb) of ram by mapping it into the $C00000 space without disabling the PCMCIA. It is the old "Ranger" memory used by many A500 expansions. Obviously the RAM would be just as slow as chip RAM, but hey, it's better than nothing! This technique was also used by one A1200 accelerator, can't remember which one though - I could look it up if anyone's interested.
So in theory one could have an A600 with 2Mb chip, 4Mb fast, 1.5 mb Ranger = 7.5 Mb ram and still a functioning PCMCIA, not bad, eh? :-)
A 68020 is awsome because it does not require a heatsink/fan!!
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If you're busy anyway, why not make a clockport connection too somewhere? It's just a pity that you need at least a '030 for USB.
I hope you can stick to the Ethernet idea. I mean, it would be ubercool to have a nice webserver (without serial cable) on an A500. And besides, it would be alot easier for transfering software/games for WHDload etc.
BTW, I too prefer expandable memory above soldered chips, allthough 32MB would be plenty...
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Great! Normally, when I see someone starting threads like this going about putting god knows what in an A500 or 600, I think 'yet another accelerator dream thread'.
But when someone actually acquires a substantial lot of EC020 and is not desposing the lean accelerator idea, I think this might even come to see the light of day.
Too give you insight on what people are willing to pay you could ask wayne to start a real poll.
Place your specs (for example):
A600 accelerator (or A500 whatever you decide)
??MB Ram
and so on.
Price:
A. < 40 euro
B. 40 - 60 euro
C. 60 - 80 euro
D. 80 - 100 euro
F. I'll pay whatever you ask.
How about that for an idea.
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Hallo Wayne !, are you listening ?
Could you please make a real poll with the options Doppe1200 wrote ?
The specifications will be:
A500/A600 Accelerator board:
Processor: 68EC020 @ 14.38 or 16.67 MHz
RAM: 4/6/8 MB Depending on A500/A600
PLCC socket: empty, can be populated with a 68881/2
IDE Port: 1, buffered
I'm inclined to use SRAM, because requires far less logic, and can be faster (and can bring some overclock improvements). But DRAM would definetly lower the cost a bit .
So would be 2 Polls:
1st.
RAM Type:
Soldered SRAM (0 Wait state), populated
Socketed DRAM (1 Wait state), not provided
Price:
40 to 60 Euro
60 to 80 Euro
80 to 100 Euro
more than 100 Euro
All the money in the known universe
All the money in the unknown universe
Thanks !
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@leirbag28
Hmmm Im not sure what everyone her is talking about saying the A600 is limited to 4Mb....thats NOT true.
Yes it is, if you only have a stock 68000.
I had an Apollo 630 with 32mb ram and PCMCIA Ram card.they both worked simultaneously
But you added a processor with 32-bit address lines instead of a 24-bit!
As long as you dont use anything below a 68020 (excluding EC020 cos they are still 24-bit) you can have more RAM.
if your just gonna make a board that adds 4MB, that is a waste as there are plenty of 4Mb PCMCIA cards availble..people here just dont know where to look for them
For people who have a PCMCIA hard drive / flash drive it's not a waste. If you are going to add a CPU above EC020 then 4mb isnt a limit.
Please dont settle for a measly 4mb. We need 128Mb in that thing minimum. and at least a 68030 @50mhz, and also dont put RAM on it.....make a slot for up to 1GB of ram, or at least 256........
You power hungry maniac! A spec like that would make it difficult and expensive.
Jens Shoenfeld, he is palnning on creating the Apollo 630 line again
Jens Schoenfeld is thinking of making a NEW 68030 accelerator for the A600, NOT the Apollo a630 cos their design is too unstable.
he also gave us the A600 clockport for USB upgrades.......I am a proud owner of one
He sure did, but without a CPU upgrade, it's useless :(
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PLCC socket: empty, can be populated with a 68881/2
Why have an FPU? Nothing of any significance in the Retro Amiga world (aka Games / WHDload / OS) uses it. The PLCC socket is expensive, difficult to solder, easily broken.
You could have used an non EC 68020 and added more RAM (that doesnt interfere with PCMCIA) for the same price!
I think you should also choose to do one or the other A500 Accelerator OR A600 accelerator, rather than try to make a universal design. A500 offers probably greater return as there were/are more of them and the GVP A530 on ebay always brings big prices.
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An FPU was suggested.
PLCC sockets are not more difficult to solder than other sockets (unless you use the smd version, I was not going to).
Expensive... a bit more, easy to broke, definitively !
As you know I got some cheap EC020. 030s are a bit more scarce and expensive (the run at 50 Euro in Spörle, for the 20MHz version). But a working design for a 020 can be made to work with a 030 in case of need, and some magical logic.
The only difference between the two is the socket (and the fact that you should remove the processor from the A500). Both sockets probably will not fit the same board at the same time. I'll see how cumbersome that is.
A600 accelerators are even more expensive on ebay :-(
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I thought I would give my point of view to this thread.
First of all, I think it is a good idea that someone wouldn't mind taking the time and effort needed to create new hardware for the Amiga, and one of them being for the A600 is great, since the upgrade possibilities aren't that great for this particular machine.
Anyway, my thoughts about what is needed... Basicly, most people just need to be able to play their games from harddrive, and maybe surf the net, and upgrade to maybe OS3.9 to get a more modern OS.
If you look at the OS3.9 requirements, the minimum specs are 6 MB ram (2 MB chip and 4 MB fast IIRC) and a 020 CPU. Since you are planning on adding ram to the accelerator, then these needs are covered.
For playing games, in most cases 4 MB fast ram is enough, as fast ram is the only thing preventing people to play games on a stock A600 with harddrive.
Surfing the net with an Amiga without graphics card is IMHO not pleasant, and the browsers needs updating. For FTP and IRC no graphics card are needed, so an accelerator with ram would be enough.
Since the accelerator needs to be useable in an A500 as well, the suggested IDE header is a good idea.
Basicly, what I think most people need for either an A500 and A600 is a fast ram upgrade and a small acceleration. A500 users needs a cheap way to attach IDE drives, so a complete unit for me would be 020 accelerator, 8 MB fast ram and an IDE header.
No need to have an FPU, 128 or 256 MB ram, USB and build-in ethernet; as I see it it is only to be able to brag, and I hardly believe that more than 5% of possible users needs more than mentioned above (020, 8 MB fast and IDE).
Anyway, that is my thoughts, do with them what you like :-)
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@doctorq
I agree with you for most of your story, except one point. The A500, which I guess outnumbers the A600, has no 'easy' and fast enough datacommunication. And there are no alternatives like a networkcard using a PCMCIA slot.
But maybe a pinheader could be made for an additional upgrade (besided the clockport I already suggested).
And those are my thoughts, do what them what you like :-)
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I agree with you for most of your story, except one point. The A500, which I guess outnumbers the A600, has no 'easy' and fast enough datacommunication. And there are no alternatives like a networkcard using a PCMCIA slot.
Point taken, and what you say is right, but my thoughts in the post mainly goes to the A600, since there is only a few upgrade possibilities for this machine.
As for transfering data from PC to Amiga 500, which I take it most users would use a ethernet port for, there are options; slow, but they are there.
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Hi
Just another thought, what about adding an rtc? Who doesn't like a clock on their Amiga? :-D
Robert
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Also it is possible to add an additional 1 MBytes (or even 1.5 Mb) of ram by mapping it into the $C00000 space without disabling the PCMCIA. It is the old "Ranger" memory used by many A500 expansions. Obviously the RAM would be just as slow as chip RAM, but hey, it's better than nothing! This technique was also used by one A1200 accelerator, can't remember which one though - I could look it up if anyone's interested.
So in theory one could have an A600 with 2Mb chip, 4Mb fast, 1.5 mb Ranger = 7.5 Mb ram and still a functioning PCMCIA, not bad, eh? :-)
This was the DKB 1202 Board iirc that could remap the memory to ranger space.
Regarding the plcc fpu socket, what's the big deal with including it? Put it on unpopulated, the expense is trivial and it's there if you need it. There are lot's of optimised versions of software for the fpu. Regarding ethernet and setting up 'webservers' for the A600, there's no need for it because the design won't interfere with the pcmcia slot so just plug a 3Com card in and away you go.
Regarding vaporware talk, I'll bet this project is finished faster that the Troika/Dragon, etc.
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RTC is mostly present on chipram expantions. This goes for the A500 as for the A600.
How would one create a version suitable for both machines?
You'd need an DIL socket as an PLCC clip over socket on the same board. This might make it too big to fit in the A600.
Would it be an idea to make a simple header that connects to either a PLCC for the A600 or a DIL for the A500 via a cable. That would make the PCB smaller. However you can expect trouble with when the bustiming using cables.
For the A500 you would not need the original CPU anymore. But on the A600 the CPU must be disabled somehow.
As for fast connectivity with an A500 the on board ethernet could make things too complex. How is a high speed UART as option?
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out of curiosity, what is the link of the 68ec020 auction??? :-o
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link to ec020 auction (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8723133102)
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@ keropi
I couldn't see it either, I assumed it would be in the thread...
edit: but I did find this auction for 020s
ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Motorola-CPU-SCRAP-GOLD-RECOVERY-68020-NR_W0QQitemZ8724124579QQcategoryZ1247QQssPageNameZWD2VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
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I agree that one or the other must be made, first. Either an A500 or an A600 board. I would also say that an FPU isn't going to be of much benefit for the purposes of the card. Basically what we want (especially us A500 users) is a little bit more speed, a mass storage interface like IDE, and more RAM. Anything extra is going to make it more difficult, more expensive, and make it take longer to produce.
I recommend the first poll you make is to ascertain whether there is more demand for the A500 or the A600 version. Whatever the poll reveals, go with that one first. If it is successful, then you can do the one that came second.
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@alexh
by alexh on 2005/11/17 4:44:34
----------------------------------------------------------------------
@leirbag28
Quote:
Hmmm Im not sure what everyone her is talking about saying the A600 is limited to 4Mb....thats NOT true.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it is, if you only have a stock 68000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REPLY: Nobody is talking about a Stock A600, obviously witth a 68030 its possible............so the point being, it IS possible to add over 256mb to the A600. WHo wouldnt want that here?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
I had an Apollo 630 with 32mb ram and PCMCIA Ram card...they both worked simultaneously
----------------------------------------------------------------
But you added a processor with 32-bit address lines instead of a 24-bit!
As long as you dont use anything below a 68020 (excluding EC020 cos they are still 24-bit) you can have more RAM.
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REPLY: I was talking about the fact that adding a Processor to the A600 will NOT disable the Memory o the PCMCIA port if done right, like the Apollo ( at least in that area)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
if your just gonna make a board that adds 4MB, that is a waste as there are plenty of 4Mb PCMCIA cards availble..people here just dont know where to look for them
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For people who have a PCMCIA hard drive / flash drive it's not a waste. If you are going to add a CPU above EC020 then 4mb isnt a limit.
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REPLY: Thats true, but I would tell those people to get rid of their PCMCIA harddrives and get an internal IDE one.......having the PCMCIA port free is valuable.
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Quote:
Please dont settle for a measly 4mb. We need 128Mb in that thing minimum. and at least a 68030 @50mhz, and also dont put RAM on it.....make a slot for up to 1GB of ram, or at least 256........
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You power hungry maniac! A spec like that would make it difficult and expensive.
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REPLY: It would make it more expesive indeed............but arent we all willing to pay for it? so the money will be made back.......so it doesnt matter! arent we all awaiting that 68030 from Jens Shoenfeld? Im sure we all want ot get our hands on that!
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Quote:
Jens Shoenfeld, he is palnning on creating the Apollo 630 line again
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Jens Schoenfeld is thinking of making a NEW 68030 accelerator for the A600, NOT the Apollo a630 cos their design is too unstable.
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REPLY: If I am not mistaken, he originally wanted to just reprduce the Apollo line..............and many suggested he make some modifications.............in my opinion, the only modification it needs is for the upside down socket to be seperated by cables so that the whole board doesnt have to balance on the 68000, and also removable 68030 and possibility for more than 32mb.
------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
he also gave us the A600 clockport for USB upgrades.......I am a proud owner of one
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He sure did, but without a CPU upgrade, it's useless :(
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REPLY: No it is NOT useless...........one can add a fast serial port to the clockport instead.........or a Sound card!.......and I just love knowing there is a clockport on my A600 :-D
I dont think any clockport should be addd to any new accelerators.but instead focus on getting Jens to keep producing these.............we dont need to reinvent the wheel. We should all work together for succes. although unfortunately because of the rarity of these things..........absolutely any internal upgrade for the A600 is welcome..........I dont care what it is.
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Nobody is talking about a Stock A600
I was. A 4Mbyte A600 FAST RAM upgrade, nothing else, low cost, 20-30 Euro's. I'd be up for one more than a 200 euro accelerator!
Jens looked at simply cloning the Apollo A630 design, however when measuring the signals on an oscilloscope going between the motherboard and the FPU he determined it was pure luck that they work at all.
I do not think the new design has an FPU.
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if the A500 version is going to be the one, is there a way to make it small enough so that it will be hackable into an A600. Then all would be satisfied.
Glad to see the end price of the auction is not driving up the cost per component greatly ;)
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@Doppie1200
Haha..you want those WHDLoad games working badly he?
I hear ya...........Love WHDLoad
Heres a link for ya.......Apple Newton Cards work on the A600
http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-Newton-8MB-Linear-Flash-memory-cards-x3_W0QQitemZ5830803856QQcategoryZ27966QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I dont know if those will work, as they might not work on some Newtons.
Dont mind that they are 8 MB, I know A600 only read 4mb, but it wont matter, it will only read 4 out of the 8 is my guess, the price is still good.
I have an origianl Apple Newton 1Mb PCMCIA and that works for sure.
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Those cards dont work as RAM in A600/A1200's
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@doppie1200
We've had this conversation. The A600 uses a different shaped CPU which is soldered to the motherboard. It is unlikely (but not impossible) that you could create a single design to work with both machines.
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Yes I would love to use the 600 for that purpose. I think it would make a kick ass game machine!
It has been some years since I last designed hardware. But I'd love to give a shot at a fastram expansion. I would first make a proto board using an A500. Just a hacked together board using neat wires. Then I would turn it into a PCB suitable for the A600. That should work.
Sadly I don't have the financial muscle to finance a small batch of PCB's.
As for newton flash; how can flash memory be turned into random access memory?
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@Doppie1200
As for newton flash; how can flash memory be turned into random access memory?
------------------------------------------------------------
Don't ask me.............all I know is that it works!
it has a removable battery if that helps. But anyway.kep in mind that these cards were meant to be used as RAM or to be written to as flash...........thats what the PrepCard software that came with your A600 does..it gives the option for both! to use it as a disk (Flash) or as RAM.
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Flash cards dont have removable batteries, just SRAM cards.
These are not SRAM cards and dont work as RAM in the A600/A1200.
With the flash driver available on Aminet you could probably used them as a fixed disk... but for 8 mbyte!
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I'm all for the 4MB of Static RAM soldered on board. It would be a nice speed boost for the 68020, also it would be nice if you could clock it at full 16 mhz instead of 14 like the A1200.
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@alenppc:
It is much easier to create a good synchronous interface to the motherboard 68000 bus when running the 020 at a multiple of the motherboard frequency.
/Patrik
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If you do this I'd pay for one. I'd have to pick up another A500 but I'd pay for one. I think, despite what the classic gamers here say, that more RAM is crucial. Also IDE and of course CPU (whole point) is equally crucial. I would definitely pay more for a board that included a cheap RTG solution. The primary reason is that the A500 has no easy way to output better graphics. No video slot and the graffiti is not worth it for an A500 due to the ECS chipset limitations.
In order (bare minimums are):
040/060 (jumper switchable)
32MB minimum RAM
IDE capability.
Things I would definitely pay more for
RTG Graphics (IMHO this is very important for A500/A600)
Built in Ethernet
Coldfire/PPC (possibly with socketable 040/060)
128+MB of RAM
IDE capability
PCI expansion header
Many people seem to want an A500 for classic gaming. I can see the point but honestly if thats all you want it for, pick up an A500 with a 512K ram expansion and leave it be. Almost all classic games with run with this.
If you're going to buy an accelerator you don't want to get close but never be able to truly enjoy 3.9 or any modern software update (perhaps better browsers and such) due to lack of RTG when RTG could have been on the drawing board. Developers who'd like an extra miggy for dev purposes would be sad to have to run a compiler with 32MB of RAM.
If you're going to solder RAM, put more RAM on there. Even at 128 the prices are so cheap theres no reason not to. If you have a socket then leave it bare and let the user install it. Then the people wanting 4MB can use 4MB and be happy.
I think IDE is very important for obvious reasons. And finally ethernet is important for the same reasons that RTG are. There is very little to no expansion capability for this type of upgrade on the Amiga 500. The Amiga 600 at least has a PCMCIA slot to account and allow for this but if I am not mistaken this slot is almost always used for some other expansion (such as RAM, HDD, etc...)
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hppacito wrote:
link to ec020 auction (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8723133102)
Look! He is offering ANOTHER 330 CPU's! (http://cgi.ebay.de/Paket-330x-Amiga-Prozessoren-68020-NEU_W0QQitemZ8725112415QQcategoryZ8142QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
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That's a sweet number !, let's see if he will offer some dram, Alice, Gayle o whatever the other ics are ;-).
I'll get mine next week... anyone else wants to get hold of them ? (If I buy more ics my gf will leave me :-(, there is plenty of nice electronic components... I just wonder _how_ they get them.... ) :-D
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I was wondering, is the current bid made by an A.org member? If not, one of us should bid for this. If the price wouldn't be too crazy (like the previous auction :-)), I'd volunteer for that.
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I think it is someone who works or used to work at the distributer. Amiga Inc might have done a Life Time Buy when they where producing A1200 boards. This means they estimate how much they intend to produce and buy all obsolete components before the manufacturer runs out.
In 1995 the EC20 sure was obsolete. So they might have had to order a substantial lot so motorola could run another batch and make a profit. This might be the left overs.
But I'm not going to buy them. I won't finish an accelerator anyway because of earlier mentioned reasons.
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But I'm not going to buy them. I won't finish an accelerator anyway because of earlier mentioned reasons.
Anyway, trying to make two acc for the same machines, in this case, is not the best option. Maybe try to do some other useful periperial, would be better.
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hehe this implicitly tells me your after an A600 accelerator.
Otherwise I'd go for an A600 version and you can go for the A500 version. Then again I don't have the financial backbone to invest such a thing. The return is too uncertain.
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Actually, both use the same techniques.
The host processor in the A600 should be put to rest asserting BR. In the case of an A500... no processor to worry about.
Better to do a design for one, and the other one should be a modified PCB (I still think that with a bit more area, both can be done on the same PCB). That should not increase the price that much.
This is what I have in mind:
D0..D15 sould be buffered to isolate the high speed 020.
A1 to A23 should be isolated also through some '244.
Control lines should also be isolated
*UDS/*LDS should be generated. Remember that the 020 has dynamic bus sizing, so take care of SIZE0/SIZE1 and DSACK0/DSACK1.
The original Ax00 should only be accesed in the following mem areas:
0x000000..0x1fffff
0x600000..0x9fffff (A600)
0xbfd000..0xbfffff PIA (even addresses)
0xdf0000..0xffffff
*DTACK should be routed to *DSACK1 for 16 bit ports, but only in the mentioned regions.
In the Fast RAM region, should be internally generated (tyed to *AS for example, for a 3 cycle access to RAM).
I was also thinking in replacing the original Kickstart with a 32 bit version (read, with 4x8 bit epros or 2x16 bit eproms), for even faster access. That should need to get *ROMEN from the old ROM socket, or autogenerate it. But again *DSACK0/1 should be generated. If the new eproms are fast enough (could also be flash), that can be a 3 cycle access, or a 4 cycle access. A shift register can be used to generate the delayed signal.
Plenty of logic can be used to generate all this signals, may be a GAL can be cheaper, and cut on IC count, but I don't have a GAL programmer, though. I have to find a cheap GAL programmer, or make my own. I have an eprom programmer, though.
Regarding PCB costs, there is a shop in München, where they make small runs, 30 Euro (+16% VAT), each piece for 5 PCBs.
23 for 10. At 100x160 mm, 2 layers. That surface should be more than enough for this. This is the initial price, next runs are cheaper.
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Hey hppacito, why dont you take the rest of the 020's and give us what we reeeeeally want:
A dual 020 accelerator! Woohoo! :-D
Jokes aside, I want a 020 + 4MB upgrade for my 600. Count me in.
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hppacito wrote:
I was also thinking in replacing the original Kickstart with a 32 bit version (read, with 4x8 bit epros or 2x16 bit eproms), for even faster access. That should need to get *ROMEN from the old ROM socket, or autogenerate it.
I think taking *ROMEN from the socket is the only way,otherwise it won't boot. (No way of knowing if the rom overlay is enabled for mapping 0x00000000 to 0x00f80000 )
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Darn, I was all worked up at the begining of the thread with coldfire talk.
Now it's wound down to ec020. :-P I think the additional 040 or 060 socket
is a good idea though. Those with an extra CPU hanging around
(especially in some other dead accel) could easily update.
Good luck with your project.
Plaz
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Ok, here a heads up for production;
What about RoHS compliance. Will there be a board manufacturer that is still able to mount the old 020EC IC.
The IC is one from the past and is surely not tested for a lead free production process.
I recall manufacturers are required to have their production processes RoHS compliant by law somewhere 2006.
That would mean the 020EC is not surface mountable by default. The lead free soldering process uses higher temperatures the 020EC can cope with.
This could pose a problem. Can someone with more knowledge investigate.
I will ask collegues of mine that work at the hardware dept.
Just thought I should mention it.
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The original Ax00 should only be accesed in the following mem areas:
0x000000..0x1fffff
0x600000..0x9fffff (A600)
0xbfd000..0xbfffff PIA (even addresses)
0xdf0000..0xffffff
How about mapping some memory to the 0xC00000 on the A600 as I suggested? This would allow you to increase the total system RAM without interefering with the PCMCIA, not to mention that it would improve compatibility with some old games on the A600. :-)
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@Doppie1200
That's what solder paste and a heat gun are for. :-D
@hppacito
Again, I highly encourage adding a local bus connector of some sort for future expansion. That way the other devices we've discussed putting on it could still be added to a leanly designed board. ie:
Main Accel:
EC020
xxxMB RAM
IDE interface
(ROM??)
Local Bus interface
Add-on boards:
USB
Ethernet
RTG board
etc.
Since you've got a goodly number of processors, I suggest 2/3 of them for the A500 and 1/3 for the A600... Tho I do like the idea of a single PCB design, just in case one of the A500/A2000 buyers decides to move it to an A600 later by changing the connectors (hack, of course).
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@Doppie1200
The cost of running something _that_ professional would be prhibitve. I was planning in soldering myself ;-)
BTW, all components should be in reels, and so on and so on. Btw, the A500/600 are not lead free.
Somebody suggested some memory in 0xC00000, may be I forgot it in my memory map.
There are a couple of holes in he memory map that can be used for expansion. I'll see what can be done.
Somebody can/wants to burn some gals ?
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i can burn gals i dont have an a500 or a600 but i would get one if there was a COLDFIRE accelerator for one. (repeates for affect) i think a COLDFIRE accelerator would be good. and in some ways wouldnt be that much more difficult than an 020. supply of devices would be better and there would likely be active support from the manufacturer
coldfire :-D
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Well, as far as the designing part is concerned, I would be quite skeptical about the casing/housing of an A600. Would it take it? It would require some extra cooling as well. How mcuh power would it consume?
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As long as it's not too power hungry, an A500 supply (45Watt) or an adapted PC supply should cope fine. An internal fan could be added onto it, but the 68ec020 is pretty cool unless overclocked (like in the Apollo 1220...28MHz...a bit warm to the touch).
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hppacito wrote:
If the new eproms are fast enough (could also be flash), that can be a 3 cycle access, or a 4 cycle access. A shift register can be used to generate the delayed signal.
Just another brain fart..
If you're gonna use faster eproms/flash, then you need to get the /OVR signal to stop Gayle automatically generating DTACK for the old ROM timing. AFAIK, on an A600 that means the old 'upside down PLCC socket' over Gayle.. which kinda blocks Jens' A600 clockport adapter :-(
Anyway, if you use the socket method it'll be easy to take /SPARE_CS and /INT_6 and add a clockport header on your board. (Or for the grand cost of another 50p, use a 2-4 decoder and have upto 4 clockports)
Also, ethernet should be pretty easy too. Use one of the clockports from above, (maybe replacing /SPARE_CS with /NET_CS for quicker read/writes) and use a CS8900 or RTL8019. EDTP (http://www.edtp.com/) sell kits/modules for both for around $35 that only need INT inverted and the small matter of writing a SANA2 driver.
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A few moons ago, there was a news item on this site;
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45466
He asked for pre-orders to check out the current demand for such an accelerator. The designs used an 030 rather then the 020, and this was another production run of the A600 version of the Apollo, a tried and tested, proven accelerator. The price was also very attractive, at EU150, you would pay more for a second hand one on e-bay.
Now, considering the positive response to this thread, and considering that re-inventing the wheel (and killing a few A600s along the way) dosen't make a lot of sense to me, how about lobbying this guy to produce the blessed accelerators?
Judging from this thread, I think he would gather his pre-orders easily, if all those who pitched their support keep their word. For me, this would be the ideal upgrade, since the A600 realisticaly, couldn't be pushed much further
So, any takers?? Can we contact redromula and ask him nicely to resurrect the project, if possible?
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From what I see in the thread, he didn't get that far. People seem not to like the Apollo 030 that much. The increased memory size is quite sweet though. I'm pushing my proto anyways.
Somebody suggested a TRL8019AS or CS8900 as network controllers, anyone knows where those can be bought ?, seems that the CS chip is 10 bucks a pop, let's hope they are cheaper. (Read: reseller in germany willing to sell small qty), can also be an ebayer
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hppacito wrote:
From what I see in the thread, he didn't get that far. People seem not to like the Apollo 030 that much. The increased memory size is quite sweet though. I'm pushing my proto anyways.
I agree with you on that. I like the extra ram too, but personally I prefer the 020 because it creates less heat so it should be more stable and it should be cheaper than 030.
Keep us posted!! :-D
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@jethro_Tull the project you refer to was being done by Jens Schoenfeld of http://www.ami.ga and originally it was going to be a remake of the A630 however it became clear to Jens that they are rubbish, easily break, dont work very well. So he began to make a new 030 based accelerator. Work has been done but not finished.
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$000000-$07FFFF Chip RAM
$080000-$1FFFFF Reserved
$200000-$5FFFFF Fast-RAM (4Mbyte)
$600000-$9FFFFF PCMCIA (4Mbyte)
$A00000-$BEFFFF Reserved
$BFD000-$BFDF00 PIA B (even addresses)
$BFE001-$BFEF00 PIA C (odd addresses)
$C00000-$DFEFFF Reserved for expansion
$DFF000-$DFFFFF Custom chip registers
$E00000-$E7FFFF Reserved
$E80000-$EFFFFF Expansion ports
$F00000-$F7FFFF Reserved
$F80000-$FFFFFF System ROM
Whats to stop you using some of the reserved areas for fast RAM? Would it require more than patching the kickstart memory allocation routines to "see" your extra RAM? Its not like the classic Amiga memory map is going to evolve any further...
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The reserved area in 0xA00000 is being used by the Gayle in the A600. (Found through a search in the linux amiga kernel source). May be there are other surprises.
Those reserved areas maybe were used by not so careful programmers if the chipset is also visible there... is something I don't know.
Can be tested.
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Sounds like there's some great work going on here! It's brilliant to see some more people with the talent and the dedication to bring something like this to fruition. hppacito, I offer you a pint :pint: :-)
I'm definately up for an A600 020 w/ 4mb fast! Sounds like the ideal non-AGA WHDLoad system to me :-), so count me in!
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xeron wrote:
Whats to stop you using some of the reserved areas for fast RAM?
The $e00000 is for the 1st half of a 1MB ROM (No idea why CBM split it that way) and I think Gayle generates a /ROMEN in that range.
The $f00000 range is for 'diagnostic' flash rom.. Exec checks this space and boots from it instead of the normal Kickstart if a rom is found here, again Gayle generates the /FLASH chip select. This space is also scanned for residents on startup too, so it could prove to be a simple way to put in drivers for an IDE interface on the A500 version or parts of the 3.9 RomUpdate.
As for the $a00000 my brain's drawn a blank, but I got a sneaky feeling it's another unused rom space on the CD32 (all I can remember is that the CD32's exec scanned another area for residents that none of the other kickstarts did.).. but then again I also remember someone telling me it was another place that Zorro II cards can have there I/O space mapped to.
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Doobrey,
Now I'm a bit confused with what you say. Can you describe with maximum detail the startup process (Since *RESET is asserted ) ? (read: or point to the right document describing it). :-?
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Try ExecDis.lha (http://main.aminet.net/package.php?package=dev/asm/ExecDis.lha), it's a commented dissassembly of the 1.2 Exec, but the startup hasn't really changed much over the years.
The only noticable startup differences on 3.x are an added check for a ROM in the PCMCIA slot that can take over instead of the Kickstart (although I've been told that part is broken and it fails to see a ROM), and the A600/A1200 doesn't use the CIA to turn off the ROM overlay as it's controllable by writing to Gayle.
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Okey, guys.
After some days, I estimated to cost of such an accelerator with the following features:
68EC020 Processor, clocked at 16 MHz
6 MB SRAM (5.5 are actually accesible)
IDE port (No DMA capable)
TRL8019AS Ethernet controller
1 MB Flash memory
In around 90 Euro.
Niether the Flash, nor the ethernet are essential for operation, and withouth them the price drops to 70 Euro.
All that counting on getting not that much discount due to small cuantities. If I can buy 25 or more of some components (PCB, SRAMs), the price drops another 10 or so euro.
** All prices do not include shipping ! (mean, if you come where I live, you can get it for that money).
I wanted to estimate the price before going much further, because I already have components to do a prototype. May be better deals can be achieved if there is enough takers.
Currently I'm working on the programmable logic. A PCB (proto) should be ready the third week of Dic or so.
So, I would like to hear how many are (still) seriously interested.
Thanks !
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For 90 euro's a piece, I might even consider buying two :-D (if it's an A500 version)
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Count me in! I will gladly pay 90 Euro for it!
(600 version)
:-)
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Hi,
Yeah I'd be interested in an A600 version for that price.
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I would definitely buy either version as long as it is compatible with the A600! Even the cheaper one would be ok.
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Count me in if you can get it to actually work. The ide port makes me think you're intending this for A500 only? Either way, okay.:-)
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:idea: Count me in!
I'd love an A600 version.
90Euro is not a problem.
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Oh my...
And they say.. "u have to have new comp.. newer parts.. n so on.. everything.. newnewnew..."
This idea.. which has been given.. has been brooding me years.. Why hasnt there been those who wouldve like to onproduce.. old machines.. to update.. or worse yet.. be in the future.. in the present..
I were few years back.. in Uk-forum in which there are A-wizards.. which almost from a scratch reprogram better workbenches than we know..
What bothered me.. was.. most of them are introverts of their "produce".. "we do.. we can.. but aint for others to get help.. from us.. we do this for us only...." or that was the professional.. thought which came of it..
Okay.. well.. i have A500+(+1megchip) with the kicstart..n the accelerator.. (same manufacturer) "new chip" of 3.1rom (which hasnt been installed.. why? no diskettes..) previous one being 2.4..
Some music hassling.. but in the musicprogram.. (don't remember.. memorycheck needed).. Playing games.. (Monkey island 2 n Eye of the Beholder2.. in the kickstart... n most best games.. sniff.. winterolympics (the best)/summer olympics games.. n nitro.. *embraces hours of playing it in nittime through*...) no coding.. too much a kid back then.. (dont have brains for calculations)
I cant say none to agree to buy anything.. im no person to say on amigaside.. but i hate being alone without those games..:D Maybe.. none to buuy but a500.. or to do.. everything.-.. to buy all.. one can get it work.. as one's the machine..
Crazy? Mad? Amigist? Barely?
Oh wow.. tears..... darned..:D
So.. i may but hope.. some guys would make it happen.. classic amigas to the future.. chips.. to newly made.. or like.. starting new line of events.. something.. anything...
AMIGAAAAA... ;)
:-D
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sounds nice if you were to prevail i would like the a600 acc
adonay:-D
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@hppacito
I wish all the luck for making this Accelerator.
I believe that the price is ok for the components.
I actually bought for 90 Euros the M-TEC 630 030@42Mhz plus an extra of 30 Euros for the 68882@40Mhz FPU from www.animart.pl
I believe that they may have a few spares left.
Congratulations for these efforts!
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I'm in too, 90 euros for the A600 version.
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@hppacito
Count me in for the A600 One with Ethernet and flash chip:) I like the ethernet option so we can use the pcmcia port for other expansions :-D
I hope you succeed!
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Here I uploaded a photo of the newly arrived EC020s:
Joto ! (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1194=7)
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Mmmm a tray of Amiga CPU's :knuddel:
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The last time I saw this thread, there was talk of Coldfire and 128Mb RAM and now it's down to 16Mhz 020 and 6Mb. I've already got a 33Mhz 020 and 8Mb RAM in my A500, so I guess I won't be getting one. I was hoping for at least a 50Mhz 030 and 32Mb RAM. Oh, the tragedy...
I was also thinking in replacing the original Kickstart with a 32 bit version (read, with 4x8 bit epros or 2x16 bit eproms), for even faster access.
Good idea. The Viper 520 card I have has the 32 bit A1200 ROMs and it is more than twice as fast as the 16 bit ROM in the original slot. (ROM on Viper is switchable)
The IDE interface should be 2.5" to allow internal 2.5" HD or CF (through IDE to CF adapter) - not 3.5".
An internal fan could be added onto it, but the 68ec020 is pretty cool unless overclocked (like in the Apollo 1220...28MHz...a bit warm to the touch).
There's no need for a fan on the 68EC020. Even after 8 hours use, my 33Mhz 020 is barely warm. (a fan in an A500? unthinkable! ;-) )
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Hi
I'd almost certainly get the A600 version. Also would probably get an A500 version to replace my m-tec 020 board (definatly if it had IDE (2.5 in) and ethernet)
Keep up the good work. :pint:
Thanks
Robert
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@mr_a500;
Read the whole thread, and you will see how things developed to the current state. Some points should be ironed first for a successful coldfire implementations. If you have a look at the coldfire 68k emulation layer (68klib) you will notice the huge overhead that it has. I'm not sure if even a 200MIPS proc can deliver 10MIPS of pure 68k code. (V4). I'm still studing the possibility of a "dynamo-like" emulator on V2 cores. That could be a way to go. OTH a 020 board is not bad at all, especially if is packet with some goodies (eth, 32-bit ROM, 3 cycle memory access). I would really love to see how a DRAM based accelerator performs against a 3-cycle RAM accelerator. I hope this will have a lead.
I'm currently doing my proto with 70ns SRAM, but final boards will use 55ns mem, enabling some overclock (maybe 18MHz) that should be quite interesting compared to other 020 or 030 accs, and super fast logic. The only advantage a 030 has over the 020 are the not-used MMU and the higher clocks available. I don't know how much the caches do being so small, someone may be can post some benches with and without caches.
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I'm interested in one for my 2000!
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@hppacito
I already had read this whole thread and saw how it came about. I actually didn't want a Coldfire anyway because I knew it would have software compatibility problems (and saw Oli's project fail). I mainly wanted something faster than 33Mhz and more than 8Mb RAM. Actually, I was hoping for something like the mysterious and elusive Viper 530.
I wish you luck on your project, though. :-)
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Just a quick question. How do you plan on getting the ethernet connection out of the case? As there is not a ready made 'hole' in the 5/600 case. :-?
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@hppacito:
In the A500 case, you could always go for an internal connector on the accelerator for one of those CF or PCMCIA wireless 802.11b nics. That way you wouldnt have to drill or cut in the case to get connectivity.
I bet the already existing orinoco/prism2 chipset driver (http://aminet.net/package.php?package=hard/drivr/prism2.lha) for the A600/A1200 PCMCIA port wouldnt need much modification to function with a orinoco/prism2 based card in a socket on your accelerator. That would also save you the work of writing a completely new driver for the ethernet chip.
/Patrik
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@mr_500;
Would be neat to have a 040 or 060 in there... but I think that the price of the processor alone drives everything a bit too far. At amigakit they weight 50 pounds sterling (70-80 euro) and new even more !
I don't see a clear path there. But, what yould be really really neat:
An A600 case with:
VGA Port, Audio port, USB, Eth.
Slim cdrom
Internl 2,5" hd
Emulated AGA or ECS chipset, in hardware (No idea if is or not possible), but with what people do nowadays with fpgas looks quite tempting (looks like too many timing problems).
Amigaone board, or similar. (I think minitower cases or bigger ones are too cumbersome)
Probably is just a wet dream of me. :-D
The eth connection will be left to the installer:
1. Make a nice hole in the case
2. screw the little board with the connector
3. enjoy ? :-D :-D
@patrik:
That's actually a very good idea. But a full PCMCIA port should be available then.
There are many ideas floating, the thing is to find where the parts are available and how much they cost. A PCMCIA port can be used for many things, especially if has external access, but the connector is somthing to consider. A cheap onboard eth solution costs the same money. Unless the board is well screwed to the case or so, I would not insert anything in a PCMCIA slot. That can be explored in a second revision.
btw:
Oxford semiconductors has a really nice USB host controller, the TD242LP, but the reseller they give is a bit less than helpful in its web version. Anybody know another good alternative, how much they cost and where can be bought in small qtys ?
Thanks !
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How's the accelerator coming? It's been a week already and now your project is competing with the PowerVixxen LT, Dragon, Troika for my dollar :)....just kidding. No, but seriously, any news?
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News ?, some.
I'm working on the CPLD. I got a so-so deal for the RTL8019AS, and I just happened to order 2 of them for the protos. The rest of the components are alredeady bought. So I expect a board soon (I still have to draw it !).
Still didn't find a 2,5" Harddisk connector. I think will have to be a 3,5" haddisk connector. Is a pity the only electronics shop in town is a bit weak in I.Cs, and connectors... But hey, this is (KAOS) germany, I should be able to get anything !
So far, no luck with usb host controllers. So no USB for the time being. I think that may be USB can be done completely offchip, I mean a uC with host USB capabilities, and working as a full USB host, with stack and everything. That will off-load a lot from the 020. I wonder if that can be achieved. Maybe someone can step in. Maybe a limited set of peripherials, mass-storage, and HID... maybe just a wet-dream :crazy:
The powervixxen looks really sweet. I hope for that price comes to reality. A pity freescale doesn't make a cheap 060... they have the tech... even at 40 or 50 MHz, that would rock !
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I am in for two, one for A600 and one for A500. I would like a 2.5" IDE port if possible but I guess a 3.5" is ok as you can still install a 2.5" HD correct? Is the A600 version also going to have a IDE port? I imagine No.
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what is your plan? Are you going to create two seperate boards? One for the 500 and one for the 600?
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hppacito wrote:
So far, no luck with usb host controllers. So no USB for the time being. I think that may be USB can be done completely offchip.
Wouldn't it be easier to just include an A1200 compatible clockport header. That way, users can just add a Subway card if they want USB. (Plus the board will be cheaper for those that don't want it).
BTW, last time I checked, RS Components stocked 2mm IDC headers, also the Jelu Web Shop (http://www.jelu.se/shop/product_info.php?currency=EUR&cPath=1_30_34&products_id=60) has right angled 44 pin headers for 1.21 euros.
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If I may...? I think you really, really should go for the onboard USB. It'll open some expansion options up for A500/600 users that they might not have had otherwise - I mean there's always folks asking "How do I get xyz files from my Amiga to my PC..." well a cheap USB/ethernet dongle would be at least as fast if not faster than a serial connection, wouldn't it?
Plus: mice, keyboards, external storage (mmm...an A500 with a sweet external CD-RW or even plain-jane CD-ROM or HD), other input devices, etc.
Consider it. Please.
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Would be neat to have a 040 or 060 in there... but I think that the price of the processor alone drives everything a bit
Did you miss my suggestion about making a 030 or 040 socket available for those who can shop for their own chip or who might extra chips lying about? (Plenty of dead accels out there) I already have 030 accels for my 500 and 1200, so I won't be interested in an 020, but I'll be rooting for you anyway. I'll be following to see what your future projects might bring.
Plaz
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firstup hppacito, Kudos to you for having a go!
Ive had a crack at designing my own PCB's before. Its not as hard as a lot of people think.
The most complex was a a Cvid->RGB converter, I found a few complete products on the net for ridiculous prices ( AU$300-600), in the end I got the parts together, translated the schematic from an existing product onto PCB and built my own.
All up, it cost less than AU$50 and took maybe 3 days and a couple of tries getting the PCB right. Its been working fine driving a RGB-only LCD for about 2 years!
The hardest part was getting some rare parts and building my own RF chokes.
Good luck, keep having fun & dont listen to the naysayers!!!
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Plaz wrote:
Did you miss my suggestion about making a 030 or 040 socket available for those who can shop for their own chip or who might extra chips lying about? (Plenty of dead accels out there) I already have 030 accels for my 500 and 1200, so I won't be interested in an 020, but I'll be rooting for you anyway. I'll be following to see what your future projects might bring.
Plaz
That's an idea. I've have a lot of old Apple cpu's lying here 040 and 030.