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Author Topic: How can someone be sooo stupid?  (Read 2097 times)

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How can someone be sooo stupid?
« on: February 15, 2003, 09:31:48 PM »
Well, that's the question that you'll probably ask yourself after you read my question.

I have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about the subject I am about to ask about.

I am about to buy a brand new motherboard which has the following feature:

2 Ports

MCP integrated NVIDIA® MAC + Realtek® 8201BL PHY
MCP integrated 3Com® MAC + Broadcom® AC101L PHY


I am using bellsouth fastaccess dsl with speedtouch usb modem.
I know that these ports have something to do with what people call ethernet (I think)

I've read postings that say the speedtouch usb dsl modem is a patch or a hack for using dsl.
They say that I should be connecting through some type of router or something like that.

Does anyone here know anything about what I'm talking about?

If it is possible to use my fast access dsl with these ports...
What would I need to buy, and how would I hook it all up.

I'll be using windows 2000 professional as my OS.

Please try not to laugh too hard.  
 :-o
 

Offline Elektro

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Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2003, 09:34:09 PM »
If your modem has an ethernet/rj45 port then connect that to the ethernet port on your motherboard (or ethernet card). Simple.
#amiga.org @ irc.synirc.net
 

  • Guest
Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2003, 10:09:31 PM »
Hi,

I'm not sure exactly what those ports are, but they sound like nteork ports.  A network port looks a lot like a little square telephone connector (you know, the palstic thing with that tiny plastic clip on it) only it's slightly larger.

The NVIDIA one may be firewire, which is a bit like USB - only better.  But I'm just guessing.

I'd gusee that connecting to a DSL modem would be fastest with a network (ethernet) connection.  But USB2 and (coming soon) Firewire2 are getting faster, so that may all change.  But then network cards are also getting faster with 1Gb becoming available.

Reading this, it doesn't sound that helpful, but here it is anyway.
 :-P
 

Offline KapitanKlystron

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Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2003, 12:32:05 AM »
Those are integrated NIC's. Those are for Ethernet and will have an RJ45 jack. Those are for a LAN.

You should be able to hook a router to your modem and than a number of computers to the router via the NIC.  You can also have a host computer with two NIC's. One for the modem and one for the other computer. The router is a more elegant and easier solution though
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2003, 12:56:00 AM »
The ports are ethernet network ports. You would normally use them to network your computer.

The Speedtouch is a USB modem, and connects to the USB post of your computer. It's not a hack, but needs the correct drivers (should be no problem on Win2k Pro) to work.

An alternative to the USB ADSL modem is a combined ADSL modem and router. This connects to the socket the same as the Speedtouch, but it will connect to your computer via a standard networking cable. Normally, you will configure this router via a Web interface to it, but you won't need special drivers. If you're using an Amiga, it would be more likely to work with the router than the Speedtouch, but in your case it won't matter.

A router is also better if you use more than one computer on a home network, and want to give everyone access to the net. Win2k can do this too (so you could do it with the Speedtouch as well) but it's not a great solution.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline Darth_X

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Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2003, 01:06:31 AM »
@Mountain_Myst

Why not exchange your USB DSL modem for an ethernet model?
http://www.fastaccess.com/consumer/blsc_pricing.jsp

 :-D
 

  • Guest
Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2003, 02:37:31 AM »
Thx for the advice everyone...

I've been reading about this subject for hours now, and still have another couple of hours to go it seems.

I think I'm leaning towards getting rid of that STUPID usb modem and going standard.

That way I can use a good router.
.
The problem is though, I cannot find a listing of modems and routers that will work with Bellsouth Fastaccess.

They have a listing on thier site, but it's pathetic.
I don't think they want you to get certain types of modems for one reason or the other.

Well, the search continues for the perfect modem and router.

 :-)

I want to learn how to network someday soon anyway.
Might as well get it started.

BTW...

I've been looking into those modem/router solutions too.

Crap...
There's a lot of stuff out there.
 

Offline Quixote

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Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2003, 09:30:10 AM »
Mountain_Myst Meekly_Mentioned:
Quote
...I have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about the subject I am about to ask about.
:-? Well, that's why the human race invented questions, isn't it?  Don't be embarrassed; ask away!  That's what we're here for.
 

Offline Desmon

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Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2003, 11:17:05 AM »
@Mountain_Myst
Quote

I have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about the subject I am about to ask about.

I am about to buy a brand new motherboard which has the following feature:

2 Ports

MCP integrated NVIDIA® MAC + Realtek® 8201BL PHY
MCP integrated 3Com® MAC + Broadcom® AC101L PHY


I am using bellsouth fastaccess dsl with speedtouch usb modem.
I know that these ports have something to do with what people call ethernet (I think)

If you could name the make and model of the motherboard, I'm sure the wonderful people here will search the 'net and find all it's features and/or shortcomings. Having two ethernet ports builtin, I would expect it's built as a server specific mothrboard, but most new hardware these days comes with at least two USB ports, so you shouldn't have any trouble using the DSL "modem" you have already with it.
Cache Ya,
Craig.


Busy playing with my Trainz and loving it!
 

Offline Floid

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Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2003, 02:24:48 PM »
Well, I gave in and registered, just to respond to this.

First off, yes, those are two ethernet controllers; presumably this is some sort of high-end hobbyist/workstation board.  A 'PHY' refers to the 'PHYsical' transceiver, so seeing two specified means that each controller should, indeed, terminate in an ethernet jack you can use.  (It's not entirely uncommon to see boards made ignoring/supplanting integrated features, like the NForce's MAC.)

Now, if you're using Windows, and have a working driver for your particular flavor (which *has* been a problem for many),  the USB modem will work fine, though you won't have the flexibility to plug it into a cheap Linksys router.  The problem is not so much that "USB sucks" or "USB DSL modems suck," but rather a general lack of understanding/support for the standards involved.  If I can talk out my posterior for a bit (read: I don't know for sure, but I'll pretend I do; enlightened ones, please correct me):

-DSL itself runs over a link-layer protocol called ATM, 'asynchronous transfer mode.'  You could conceivably do all sorts of wondrous info-superhighway things with ATM (traffic prioritizing for voice-over-DSL, digital TV, etc), but in practice, you don't, and it just encapsulates the PPP, IP, ethernet, or PPP-over-ethernet packets that make up your nice fast internet connection.  Your provider likes ATM because they've been using it for their voice traffic for years, and it keeps things managable for them.

-When you have a "normal" DSL->Ethernet bridge ("DSL modem"), the box is "forced" to peel off the ATM layer, and do whatever may be necessary to spit ethernet out the other end.  You might get left with a headache like PPP-over-Ethernet, but those are still plain ethernet frames, and just about every platform on the planet knows how to deal with them.

-When you have a USB modem, however, it's likely to be spitting out the ATM cells (packets, frames, whatever you call them) directly, since there's no reason for it to 'convert' to ethernet (and ATM does, theoretically, have features that ethernet doesn't).  This would be cool, except now you're faced with a more 'arcane' technology that the fresh grads from Bob's House of Visual Basic just hired by DSLModemco might not fully grok... and which alternative OSes - even Linux (http://linux-atm.sourceforge.net) - aren't likely to support off the bat.  Add in some of the vagaries of USB itself- it's just becoming a mature technology- and you can see why people whine.

That situation was more dire around the launch of XP; nowadays, I think most companies' drivers have stabilized.  I do believe there are a few USB modems out there that dump ethernet frames, rather than ATM, but it all depends on the technologies your provider is using, and even then, don't expect those to work easily under free *NIXes until/unless someone hacks the device codes into the appropriate places.

--
Basically, from my POV, whatever you have will be obsolete in 5 years.  I'm guessing it'll be about 3-5 for the USB/ATM standards mess to truly stabilize to whatever PnP nirvana it's supposed to be, across the board... though as I've said, it's probably almost there on Windows, barring new version jumps.
--

That out of the way, you have two ethernet ports (and with a USB modem, you'd only need one, anyway), so you *could* get by with a hub and Internet Connection Sharing, rather than a dedicated router.  Whether you'd want to put yourself through the hell of securing/relying on Windows is another matter, but 2k is stable enough for the task, barring  worm attacks, ActiveX-induced trojans, mail virii, security-patch-induced-holes and so forth.

You probably *would* be happier with the ethernet modem and the Linksys, if for no other reason than everyone else on earth having that configuration.  I just wanted to explain *why* the USB situation sucks; it's basically a bad interaction of good technologies, and now you can explain that fact to others.  ;)
 

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Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2003, 03:08:41 PM »
yeah, I'm sorry.

Guess I should have included the name of the board I'm gonna purchase.

Asus Motherboard for AMD Athlon/XP/Duron Processors, Model# A7N8X Deluxe Retail

getting it from newegg.com
That's where I buy all my hardware, as long as it's retail and not oem.

I believe with all the hardware that I'm adding to this system, it's really gonna rock.
I wanted to be able to give myself a great internet experience along with this great board.

I think I'm beginning to understand this ethernet solution from all your help and also from hours of reading up on the whole thing.

I'm gonna try and get away from the usb, since I will be installing linux once again.
Dual OS's ...    Windows 2k and probably suse or mandrake.

I've tried many times to get this usb modem working with linux and have succeeded a couple of times.
But I didn't like the way that I had to patch it into the system.

I want a good standard solution that linux can also be happy with.

The only problem I'm having now is Bellsouth.
They will not help you in any kind of way if you are gonna use anything besides thier own solutions.
Needless to say, I don't like any of thier solutions, and I have to be sure that I get it right the first time.

Can't afford to buy a modem and router that is not compatible with thier service.

Anyone familiar with the bellsouth situation are welcome to throw thier own opinions at me here.

Would appreciate it very much.  




 :-)
 

Offline Floid

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Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2003, 04:26:48 PM »
DSLreports/BroadbandReports is the place to dig, of course.  I'd imagine you could request an ethernet modem from even the most braindead of ISPs, though they might hit you the $200 equipment charge for it.  

See if they have OS X drivers for the USB modem, and if not, perhaps complain that you made the 'switch' to an iBook.  If they offer Mac support at all...

Running Linux, you could definitely set up a 'NAT'/'ip masq' setup, but if you expect to reboot often, the dedicated router's the better deal.

One product line to look into might be the 2Wire Homeportal, and BellSouth is actually a partner, so it should Just Work:  2wire.com ... You should be able to acquire one off eBay inexpensively; find a model with a DSL modem built in - product matrix and whatever features you might want.  They take an "activation code," which looks a little scary, but is actually just a hash for the settings for your ISP (meaning they just hand them out off the 2wire support site, it's not any sort of resale-prevention scheme).  I mention these mostly because of the partnership deal; I happen to be using one of the modemless models myself, and it's been "pretty okay," meaning slightly less braindead vs. Linksys, but still no panacea.  You get the added options of HomePNA phoneline networking and possibly wireless, which can come in handy, if you have hardware to use it with.

(I should note that 10mbps HomePNA 2.0 is nifty, but requires either Windows or $60-$150 bridges per room you want to use it in.  1mbps HomePNA 1.x is less nifty, but can be done with eBay $6 PCI cards that work under Linux, at least 2/3 of the *BSDs, and probably Amiga if you sent a card to the right person.

I should also note that I actually *couldn't* get my 1mbps card going under the 'Knoppix' Linux DemoCD, even though it's supposed to be Linux-supported, and FreeBSD handles it fine.  That was a fairly obvious bug in the driver- it recognized the card, but didn't initialize it properly- and I can only guess it was a one-off bug in the particular kernel version used.)
 

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Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2003, 04:56:33 PM »
ok...

What do you think about this modem/router solution for bellsouth fastaccess?
and also....  what about linux?  

Here

any comments?
 

Offline Floid

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Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2003, 05:08:54 PM »
I'm more the BSD type myself, but a dedicated *NIX box (even an old 486) is always a good way to do it.  If you'll be booting in and out of Windows often, it's probably not the way to go.

I have no idea about the Cayman, but DSLReports would be a good place to ask, and you might find someone familiar with both it and the 2Wire; I'm guessing it's another "perfectly decent" product.

The advantages of the 2Wire would probably be the option of HomePNA, the firewall controls (their system presents a menu of common games and services, updatable from their servers/with room to add 'custom' items, and seems to be based on IPFilter beneath), and the local DNS service (which I've just confirmed is as easy as setting the 'host-name' option in a machine's DHCP client).  One-click updating of the firmware from the management page is also fairly useful; AFAIK, at least Linksys doesn't have that, but I've never been very intimate with one of those, either.  Also the eBay $80? pricepoint.

Think that's about the extent I can give..  I have to say,  local DNS is a *very* useful feature to have (and unfortunately, BIND is a buggy pile of bits, and djbdns is a tad braindead in its own way, so it's nice to see it in the dedicated appliance)... only reason I hadn't explored it on my setup until now is because I'm actually set up out of my uncle's basement, and there weren't enough boxes to make it useful.  Once you get some extra hardware on the LAN, it's a lot more fun to type 'ssh miggy' than 'ssh 172.16.0....  wait, DHCP refreshed, let me walk to the box and check ifconfig...'
 

Offline Tomas

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Re: How can someone be sooo stupid?
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2003, 06:45:07 PM »
If its a usb modem, then you cant... You should try to get a ethernet version of it, but still dont worry.. All new motherboards//computers have atleast 2 usb ports  ;-)

But still my personally opinion is that ethernet is more reliable and more compitable... usb modems are very hard to get working with alternative oses like amigaOS, linux and so on..... Since there is lack of drivers... While ethernet dosent need any other driver than the one for your ethernet card.