Clarification of A1/Pegasos Thread

[kgrach]

The only thing that has ever prevented the porting of OS4.0 to the Pegasos was and still is BILL BUCK.

BBRV will never allow the porting of OS4.0 to the Pegasos

This is well known to the Morph community and yet certain trolls ask about getting OS4 ported to the Pegasos like Hyperion or Amiga Inc is at fault here.

As was proven by the Open BSD project, People can't program for a board without the proper documentation and Genesi is loath to give proper documentation to any outside agency.

Until there is a change at Genesi thier never will be a legal port of AmigaOS to the Pegasos.

kgrach

[pablotinch]

in the end nobody compare the to OS and the motherboards ,
what i am asking is for a guy who owns the two systems and can make a fair review .
is anybody there who has the 2 systems ?
thank for your time
( i don't wanna start a war just i don't wanna spend more money)

[seer]

@kgrach & poweramiga2002

No need to add even more to this, Magnetic agrees to Roques point, no need to invest more in this would be flamefest. IMHO.

Just accept that a few people who chosen a different platform then you don't see all that happened in the same way you do. (Partly also what I meant in my first post)

[seer]

@ pablotinch

Coder has both, he said he wouldn't do a review anymore because of the way the earlier thread went (Meaning he would be flamed etc for stating his opinion).

You could try to PM him here or on amigaworld.net and ask him for his viewpoint tho.

[magnetic]

@ Kurt

1. I know Bill Buck personally and he VERY MUCH WANTED OS4 ported to the Pegasos and has Stated this Publically! Hello?? We all know there are parties on the so called "Amiga" side that did NOT want this to happen.

2. The reason nobody every provides "proof" that Articia S is faulty is that they are under NDA and cannot or will not as a courtesy to those who are (and told them - this is where I am)  If anybody sensible inquires in the PPC industry about the Teron and Articia you will get your own True Answers more reliable than a bunch of Amiga guys like us talking! And man I wish I could say it. BTW I got in Major trouble last time I gave a hint.

oh and for example do some research on what "BenH" ( one of the leading PPC linux developers on the planet) says about the Teron/Articia issues.. Google is your friend as Neko would say.

3. Hyperion would NOT NEED full documentation to port OS4. Also, the MOS team i'm sure dont want to see os4 project on Peg nor would Eyetech. Ultimately, I think Hyperion would as it makes good business sense.

4. The whole OpenBSD thing was crazy miscommunication. Have you every worked with Hard Core Open Source Developers? Well, hello, they want EVERYTHING OPEN.. not always good from a hardware vendors prospective. But I will say that the Pegasos uses OPEN FIRMWARE based on CHRP standard - not a Dongle Closed setup like on the A1!

5. Oh yeah, and you may have nice bandwidth on DMA working but ONLY IN OS4 due to low level driver Work Arounds. Without DMA and properly working Linux kernel you get:

no dma + linux = no business for Eyetech

(Now I'm thrilled its working for OS4 and that is important to end users here and frankly, a nice accomplishment by Hyperion)


magnetic

[Dan]

takemehomegrandma also has both systems.
But it all depends on what you want.
That said I don´t see why people can´t just point out the technical merits of their systems.

[Dandy]

magnetic wrote:
...
2. The reason nobody every provides "proof" that Articia S is faulty is that they are under NDA and cannot or will not as a courtesy to those who are (and told them - this is where I am)  If anybody sensible inquires in the PPC industry about the Teron and Articia you will get your own True Answers more reliable than a bunch of Amiga guys like us talking! And man I wish I could say it. BTW I got in Major trouble last time I gave a hint.
...

Hmmmmm - this one now really makes me think!

In the other posting you stated that there might be other issues aside from that DMA thingie - but no one would talk about them.

If NDA is the reason for that, I would not only consider it extremely unfair against the customers - no, I would consider it as intended fraud.

If you sell an used car and state the milage just as you can read it on the counter but keep quiete about the fact that the counter already restarted three times at zero, then this is considered to be fraud - at least here in Germany.

Legal professionals have a wording for that:
"deceit and fraudulent concealment"

[EntilZha]

Ok. I understand. I will now refer to the Teron as the Amiga One  :-)  Although I do kind of like "Bob"

I mean you can paint a honda and modify the engine but its still a honda!

Actually, this isn't true. The original Teron _was_ different. For example, it has an intel network controller instead of the 3com one. To the best of my knowledge, the board has been redesigned on behalf of Eyetech to the AmigaOne models available today.

If thats the cause of the troll and fud name calling, no problem.

It's not the cause, it's just something that already creates an air of hostility.

I would really Love to see the A1 and OS4 survive.

hehe, me too :-)

1. Would you now be open to porting OS4 to Pegasos?

We're always open. This is an issue of licensing, and as such, neither me nor Rogue can answer it.

2. Would you consider in the future to port OS4 to Mac?

Without documentation, this is a very hard task. Sure, Linux runs on Macs as well, but then, Linux doesn't need to offer support for anything. As such, support of Apple hardware is questionable.

[Rogue]

I will now refer to the Teron as the Amiga One

Thanks :-)

I mean you can paint a honda and modify the engine but its still a honda!

You don't know RUF and AMG then ;-) They sell modified Porsche's and Mercedes-Benz under their name.

I said Kmos isnt doing anything and the next day their domain expired)

I thought it was common knowledge that this kmos domain was a furniture company...?

Would you now be open to porting OS4 to Pegasos?

Believe it or not, we have always been. Matter of fact is that we tried to work something out in the past and even had talks about it with bPlan; We had a Pegasos on pre-order when it was "in two weeks". Nothing ever materialized. I heard someone (note: someone, no one close to bPlan) claim that there was only a limited number of boards and that they would go to "important projects". True or not, we never got one. We certainly didn't want to anymore when BBRV launched his "Ben get your Pegasos" crap, but I don't think that we should get started on *this* one again ;-)

When properly handled, this option is stil not ruled out by default.

Would you consider in the future to port OS4 to Mac?

It's a possibility, although not one that I would favour. My problem is that for a commercial viability, I would like to see a contact in the hardware manufacturer's company so that when problems arise there is a quick turn-around time for       fixing. You can usually extract the required information elsewhere, of course, but that is a tedious thing.

[tomazkid]

kgrach wrote:

Also with the new raid drivers for the A1 life is really sweet, The ability to boot off the raid card is nice along with the ability to have more than four IDE devices.

 :inquisitive:

May I ask which card you're using and which will be supported?

  :-)

[Rogue]

1. I know Bill Buck personally and he VERY MUCH WANTED OS4 ported to the Pegasos and has Stated this Publically! Hello?? We all know there are parties on the so called "Amiga" side that did NOT want this to happen.

I don't know how much official talks there have been between Bill Buck and Amiga, but certainly it requires two sides. Stating a think in public does not mean that he honestly tried to negotiate.

example do some research on what "BenH" ( one of the leading PPC linux developers on the planet) says about the Teron/Articia issues.. Google is your friend as Neko would say.

As much as I respect Ben Herrenschmidt, this is a personal opinion. My personal opinion is that UDMA on AmigaOS works without a hitch, and certainly not slower than it should be. It might require attention from the driver writer, and it would be nicer if the feature was in hardware, but it does not in any way hamper functionality.

3. Hyperion would NOT NEED full documentation to port OS4. Also, the MOS team i'm sure dont want to see os4 project on Peg nor would Eyetech. Ultimately, I think Hyperion would as it makes good business sense.

As I tried to explain, it is not only about documentation. If I have a problem now, I can write a mail to someone at MAI an get a response with a few days. Without that, work takes longer. As I also pointed out, you *can* eventually find everything yourself, but since the former way is easier and quicker, it's the preferred way.

(Now I'm thrilled its working for OS4 and that is important to end users here and frankly, a nice accomplishment by Hyperion)

The accomplishment must be credited to Stéphane Guillard, who did all the work on the IDE drivers. I only started the first version and I left it to him once we had a more or less working PIO mode driver.

Note, though, that there isn't much in terms of "workaround" required (I'd rather call it "correct programming")

[Rogue]

I would consider it as intended fraud.

Please be VERY careful with such allegations. Calling someone a fraud is serious. Unless you have anything more to back you up then "this made me thinking", I would recommend to keep quiet, OK?

Legal professionals have a wording for that:
"deceit and fraudulent concealment"

Legal professionals also have a word for unproven allegations. Just because we're on the internet here doesn't give freedom of speech a new twist.

[poweramiga2002]

@magnetic

so you are saying that Eytech is blatently lying to us about the Articia problem
as that is what it seems by your posting

quote
2. The reason nobody every provides "proof" that Articia S is faulty is that they are under NDA and cannot or will not as a courtesy to those who are (and told them - this is where I am) If anybody sensible inquires in the PPC industry about the Teron and Articia you will get your own True Answers more reliable than a bunch of Amiga guys like us talking! And man I wish I could say it. BTW I got in Major trouble last time I gave a hint.

maybee Eyetech should take this up with you if you have the so called proof !!!!

[spirantho]

@magnetic:

Thanks for your clarification. The tone of this post is a lot more reasonable than your previous one.

I'd suggest going back and re-reading what you wrote last time, but from the point of view of a happy AmigaOne user (there a re plenty!).. then you'll surely see quite how it came across - as mudslinging FUD with opinions presented as facts and nothing to them back up.

Nonetheless, in this day and age we all need to work together for the common good in order to survive, so let's all get along.

Hopefully one day - sooner rather than later - both sides of the 'wars' will realise that the only way to succeed is 'cross-pollenation' of the software, and that we can't afford these divisions in the developer base.

[Dandy]

Rogue wrote:

I would consider it as intended fraud.

Please be VERY careful with such allegations. Calling someone a fraud is serious. Unless you have anything more to back you up then "this made me thinking", I would recommend to keep quiet, OK?

Legal professionals have a wording for that:
"deceit and fraudulent concealment"

Legal professionals also have a word for unproven allegations. Just because we're on the internet here doesn't give freedom of speech a new twist.

Awwwwwwww - please, don't get me wrong every time, Hans-Jörg!

If you lean back and read my posting again you will notice that neigther I didn't *alledge* anything, nor did I call *someONE* a fraud - all I did was *WONDERING IF* some aspects of this NDA thingie - namely the concealment of problems of the product - could be seen as fraud.

And to explain what I mean I gave you an real example (selling used cars).

I had to experience this myself, as I was the person who sold the old car and wrote in the contract (in the good believ that this would *NOT* be misunderstandable) "Zählerstand".

For me "Zählerstand" always meant "was auf dem Zähler stand" (what stood on the counter).

But the judge taught me that I should have written "abgelesener Zählerstand" (read from the counter) and sentenced me to pay back a part of the purchase price to the purchaser, as - here in Germany - leaving away the word "abgelesen" (read from) already is a matter of fact of fraud and is specifically called "deceit and fraudulent concealment" in German law.

He acknowledged that the juristical reading was not widely publically known and therefor I just had to pay back a part of the price instead of receiving a "real punishment".

(From my point of view this was just capillaris separativus - but this didn't save me from paying :pissed: )

And as I seemed to recognize parallels to that NDA thingie (intentionally not to inform the public/potential customers about harware issues - as I understood it) I seriously was wondering if this is not the same sort of fraud - just with the difference that this one appears to be kind of legal () as its based on an contract/agreement (NDA).

So it should be very clear now that I never called *someONE* a fraud - rather *someTHING* (this NDA process).

So please - do me one favour:
Don't get me (intentionally? :-? ) wrong that way that you think I would like to start a flamewar - I just want your *OPINIONS* on that!

And please notice that I have always been and still am a strong supporter of Classic Amigas.

Regarding the future path I didn't make up my mind until now (So treat me well - it might have some positive effect on my buying decisions  ;-) ).

I will have to wait and see which of the two systems meets my needs better, once they are completely done and available in the stores...
 :-D

[TheMagicM]

Believe it or not, we have always been. Matter of fact is that we tried to work something out in the past and even had talks about it with bPlan; We had a Pegasos on pre-order when it was "in two weeks". Nothing ever materialized. I heard someone (note: someone, no one close to bPlan) claim that there was only a limited number of boards and that they would go to "important projects". True or not, we never got one. We certainly didn't want to anymore when BBRV launched his "Ben get your Pegasos" crap, but I don't think that we should get started on *this* one again

well that sucks.  It would have been nice to have another option.  BTW are there any hidden games in OS4? ie. certain key presses pops up a game like secret messages on old workbench?  :-)