Pegasos Gothenburg Show 2002 announced

[samface]

Sigh... I'm not even going to argue with your speculations regarding Amiga Inc.'s intentions for AmigaOS because it's nothing but pure FUD. Why would you have a petition about the new Amiga if there won't be one? Why do you claim that there won't be any AmigaDE for the AmigaOS? Why do you keep saying things that only an employee of Amiga Inc. could possibly know, such as the AmigaOS5/DE beeing just a vague concept? What you can't see doesn't exist, right? Now that would be a conclusion based on nothing but Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

But anyway, Pegasos is not AmigaOS compatible hardware, MorphOS is not an Amiga hardware compatible OS, Amiga Inc. themselves is preparing a lawsuit against them, why does it "belong" on Amiga news sites and why would I not consider them an enemy of Amiga? Because they can run Amiga applications through emulation? Because two companies fighting over a couple of thousands of users instead of cooperating is a good thing?

Sure, you're entitled to your opinion just like everybody else. I would just appreciate if you stopped spreading your opinions and speculations as facts and I would also appreciate that if you feel the need to convince me about something, atleast give me real arguments for it instead of simply repeating the same statement over and over. You're starting to sound like some kind of propaganda minister or something...

[samface]

No, they buy ready-made boards. I don't even want to think of the end-customer price if that hadn't been the case! Eyetech has nothing to do with any hardware design on a scale larger than little solderjobs like a PS/2 mouse adapter and an IDE-splitter for Amigas. And who says AmigaOS or any other OS is a "POP OS"? AmigaOS will run on whatever potentially compatible hardware there is that becomes licensed.

Stop making up lies about the AmigaOne, from Eyetech's AmigaOne FAQ:

Is the AmigaOneG3-SE the same as the MAI Teron Cx? No. During the period leading up to the OS4 development agreement being signed we evaluated the Articia S northbridge chip for possible use in a redesigned AmigaOne. We concluded that it was the most cost-effective chip for the design and proceeded to draw up some new specifications for an uprated, more cost-effectively engineered AmigaOne, the AmigaOneG3-SE. Clearly using the Articia S instead of Escena's custom northbridge design meant that both the schematic design and the PCB layout would be entirely new. MAI logic are a chipset manufacturer, not a PPC motherboard manufacturer, but they had commissioned a low volume, high cost evaluation board, the Teron Cx, to help sell their chipsets. The Teron Cx was never designed to, or intended to, go into volume production. We therefore asked them if they could recommend a design company who was familiar with using the Articia S in PPC motherboard design. They recommended the same (Far Eastern) company that designed their Teron Cx evaluation board.

The new Eyetech AmigaOne design obviously shares a lot of commonality with the Teron Cx board, but more than a cursory glance at the specifications (ATA speed, integrated ethernet, custom firmware, number of active PCI/AGP slots etc) - and the price - of both boards should be enough to convince most people that they really are different designs.

However if you remain unconvinced you are of course perfectly welcome to purchase the Teron Cx evaluation board. It costs $3900, misses many features of the AmigaOneG3-SE, and won't run OS4.

That's official.

There is no need for hardware "partnerships", and compatibility is up to the software developer to ensure. And yes, by all means, sell licensed hardware, but it's embarrassingly stupid to make compulsory licensing and bundling a requirement to have your software running on a piece of hardware. There is no "complete platform" anymore. There is AmigaOS and there is hardware.

Amiga Inc. wants to create a new platform they call the AmigaOne. They want to be able to provide their customers with a complete product, not just the software. They do this by cooperating with hardware manufacturers and *anyone* is free to apply for an AmigaOne distribution license, hardware manufacturers as well as dealers. They think that this will bring the customer a certain quality experience adding more value to the name "Amiga". They think that this is the best way of marketing their product. The only question is; why do you think you know better, you got a Ph.D. in the subject or something?

[gary_c]

@Samface

I think it's apparent that a case can be made logically for Pegasos news on news sites read by Amiga platform fans, broadly defined. But, it seems to me,  you personally don't like Pegasos/MorphOS nor do you want them to succeed, as you see them depriving Amiga, Inc. of users, developers and mindshare.

This actually may be true, but if Amiga, Inc. wants to succeed, then they have to compete in the market place. This is done by producing a superior product. Enthusiastic fans trying to repress news about competitors' products (that would be you) is rather unbecoming and suggests Amiga, Inc.  and its partners are relatively weak and their product can't stand up in comparisons. I don't think you believe this is true, but it's how your actions look when you express your "no pegasos news on news sites read by Amiga computing fans". Notice that description, also; it's broader than the readership of a support site for one commercial company or product.

You are welcome to your point of view, of course, but a number of people have posted to say they do want to read Pegasos/MorphOS news at amiga.org. So I think you can expect to continue to see it here; either accept that gracefully or post derisively every time Pegasos news is posted, causing bad feelings.

Eventually, hopefully there will be some resolution of the contentious issues. In the meantime, a higher level of tolerance might be a good idea. Just my opinion, of course.

-- gary_c

[samface]

But, it seems to me, you personally don't like Pegasos/MorphOS nor do you want them to succeed, as you see them depriving Amiga, Inc. of users, developers and mindshare.

That may be true but that's not my argument for why I don't consider them to be fair competition. Apple's PPC computers are competition, even the x86 market is competition, but the Pegasos is different. You see, they claim to be the next generation of a product line they don't own nor have the rights for. Anyone can produce cars and compete on the car market but not just anyone can make a volvo car. See the difference?

[xeron]

Samface, with regard to whether Pegasos/MOS news is relevant to amiga.org, you are not making any valid points at all, and you are contradicting yourself!

Samface said:

Advertising the Pegasos and announcing Pegasos shows is hardly the same thing as reporting security flaws in the "enemy's" product, now is it?

So non-amiga news is OK, as long as it informs us about your so-called "enemy", right?

Samface said:

But anyway, Pegasos is not AmigaOS compatible hardware, MorphOS is not an Amiga hardware compatible OS, Amiga Inc. themselves is preparing a lawsuit against them, why does it "belong" on Amiga news sites and why would I not consider them an enemy of Amiga?

So, Pegasos is "the enemy", so you want to hear about it on amiga.org, right?

Samface said:

I'm sorry but I still don't see the relevance of the Pegasos on an Amiga website.

Oh.... errr... what?

Just because YOU PERSONALLY don't want to hear anything about Pegasos/MOS, you think its irrelevant to Amiga users? thats bullshit! There are lots of Amiga users who want to use their existing Amiga applications under MorphOS on Pegasos. There are even more Amiga users who don't intend to use either, but ARE interested in what is happening with it.

I don't see how this could be irrelevant to amiga.org! I just dont! If you want to "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil", then just don't read the posts you consider irrelevant, because a hell of a lot of amiga.org users want this news.

[xeron]

Samface said:

Anyone can produce cars and compete on the car market but not just anyone can make a volvo car. See the difference?

Thats a completely stupid comparison! You don't need to stick to a brand of car to drive on the same roads! If you drive a Volvo now, but you want a newer car, you don't have to stick with Volvo, you can buy any car and drive it on the same roads.

So why shouldn't there be a choice of systems that runs the same software? Just because theres no room for it in this tiny marketplace? Well guess what! This is the real world, and sometimes companies compete in a small market resulting in the death of one or both. Thats life, live with it.

[samface]

Samface said:

Advertising the Pegasos and announcing Pegasos shows is hardly the same thing as reporting security flaws in the "enemy's" product, now is it?

So non-amiga news is OK, as long as it informs us about your so-called "enemy", right?

Ehhh... That would be exactly the opposite of what I said. Let's try it again but somewhat simplified this time:

Advertising and announcing shows is hardly the same thing as reporting security flaws, now is it?

So, Pegasos is "the enemy", so you want to hear about it on amiga.org, right?

Only if it was at the same level as the news postings about Microsoft. You know, security flaws, etc.

Just because YOU PERSONALLY don't want to hear anything about Pegasos/MOS, you think its irrelevant to Amiga users?

Didn't you read my previos post? You know, the one where I say:

I know I'm not alone whith these thoughts which makes this whole thing a conflict of interests.

[samface]

Thats a completely stupid comparison! You don't need to stick to a brand of car to drive on the same roads! If you drive a Volvo now, but you want a newer car, you don't have to stick with Volvo, you can buy any car and drive it on the same roads.

The IT market is the road, computer brands are the different kind of car brands. Of course they may ride the same roads but you as a manufacturer are still not allowed to pursue the product line of another company, period.

[xeron]

The IT market is the road, computer brands are the different kind of car brands. Of course they may ride the same roads but you're still not allowed to pursue the product line of another company, period.

Enough with the strained metaphores! I still think its a stupid comparison, but forget it, its beside the point.

The fact is that PEGASOS AND MORPHOS NEWS ARE RELATED TO THE AMIGA, AND PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE "MOS/AOS" FENCE (AND THOSE ON IT) WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON!

Nothing you have said has really backed up your position that it is irrelevant to Amiga users! Really nothing! It just seems to me that you are scared of MOS and the Pegasos and what they represent, so you want to hide it under the carpet!

Remember, nobody is stopping you from starting www.samfaces-biased-onesided-amigainc-only-news.com. Just don't expect many visitors!

[samface]

The fact is that PEGASOS AND MORPHOS NEWS ARE RELATED TO THE AMIGA, AND PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE "MOS/AOS" FENCE (AND THOSE ON IT) WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON!

But, you still haven't told me why it's related to the Amiga? Or, should I just accept your opinion as is without motive simple because you say so?

[xeron]

But, you still haven't told me why it's related to the Amiga? Or, should I just accept your opinion as is without motive simple because you say so?

HELLO? I've said several times. OK, here we go, again, in big letters so you can understand:

MorphOS runs Amiga applications. Pegasos runs MorphOS. Therefore, Pegasos with MorphOS runs Amiga applications. Therefore, Pegasos and MorphOS are technologies that are relevant to Amiga users.

Now, I don't intend to buy a Pegasos, or run MorphOS, but I am interested to know what is happening with it.

MorphOS runs the same Amiga apps as Amithlon. Do you want to ban Amithlon news as well?

With regard to "stealing the product line", why shouldn't people make products that are capable of running AmigaOS programs? Just because they'd be in competition with the one YOU want to succeed? Well guess what, lifes not like that.

Also, the legality or otherwise of MorphOS is irrelevant to this point. People want to know what is happening, that is the point of news sites for christs sake!

[samface]

Nothing you have said has really backed up your position that it is irrelevant to Amiga users! Really nothing! It just seems to me that you are scared of MOS and the Pegasos and what they represent, so you want to hide it under the carpet!

I quote myself once more:

But anyway, Pegasos is not AmigaOS compatible hardware, MorphOS is not an Amiga hardware compatible OS, Amiga Inc. themselves is preparing a lawsuit against them, why does it "belong" on Amiga news sites and why would I not consider them an enemy of Amiga? Because they can run Amiga applications through emulation? Because two companies fighting over a couple of thousands of users instead of cooperating is a good thing?

I'm not scared of MorphOS or the Pegasos because I think they will win, I'm scared of the damage they are doing to the entire Amiga market as a whole, regardless of the outcome in the war between them and Amiga Inc.

Also, please note that this is not about me evangelizing Amiga Inc., it's about me critisizing bPlan and the MorphOS team's way of acting like a parasite on the Amiga market instead of acknowledging themselves as an alternative platform to the Amiga.

[xeron]

Also, please note that this is not about me evangelizing Amiga Inc., it's about me critisizing bPlan and the MorphOS team's way of acting like a parasite on the Amiga market instead of acknowledging themselves as an alternative platform to the Amiga.

No its not! Its about you not wanting people to post news stories about MorphOS on Amiga news sites because you class it as "irrelevant" when it patently is relevant!

Anyway, no amount of you arguing will change the fact that the owners of the website can put what they damn well like on this site, coupled with the fact that you are the ONLY one expressing any problem with having Pegasos news on here!

[samface]

MorphOS runs Amiga applications. Pegasos runs MorphOS. Therefore, Pegasos with MorphOS runs Amiga applications. Therefore, Pegasos and MorphOS are technologies that are relevant to Amiga users.

And then you say that I don't have anything for why it would be irrelevant to Amiga users? Listen and listen carefully, WinUAE has better support for Amiga applications than MorphOS since it only runs retargetable Amiga applications. Ontop of that, it doesn't run Amiga applications natively in any way, it emulates. MorphOS will also not run AmigaOS4 applications and MorphOS applications won't run on any AmigaOS. To sum things up:

MorphOS is an OS that doesn't run on Amiga hardware, MorphOS applications won't run on AmigaOS and emulation is required in order for it to run Amiga applications. Per definition that makes it a non Amiga compatible (or even related) OS.

Pegasos is hardware not capable of running AmigaOS natively which makes it easy to define as non Amiga hardware.

So, tell me; why would this be more Amiga relevant than WinUAE?

[xeron]

So, tell me; why would this be more Amiga relevant than WinUAE?

It doesn't have to be. I class WinUAE as relevant.

[samface]

I find WinUAE to be OK though, since they are not marketing their product as a next generation Amiga. You see, that is my biggest problem with bPlan and their methods. They've created an alternative platform which they claim to be an Amiga simply because it has built in 68k emulation and reverse engineered AmigaOS API's. To me, this is simply the worst kind of IP theft you can do and all these news about them in the Amiga land is playing right into their hands. It's just so sad to see how the Amiga community has become such an easy victim for this kind of marketing scam...