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Author Topic: (RFD) Amiga.org's future  (Read 16193 times)

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  • Guest
Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #179 from previous page: May 07, 2009, 04:19:58 PM »
Quote

buzz wrote:
I understand that the domain name holds a value, but if you were tired of the site, you could still hold onto the name/domain, and yet donate the site to a group of people willing to continue running it.

I guess I have a different attitude to these things than you.


You're right.  It's just a different viewpoint.  

From mine, I'm not aware of anyone in the community who's willing/able to run the site the way it needs to be, and if there were, it seems to me that they could find a way to invest in their decision to do so.

Indeed however, outside of selling the domain name to lesbians, separating the data/site from the domain name would be like pulling the HEMI out of a 2009 Dodge Challenger and expecting each to be worth more than the sum total of individual parts.

Amiga.org is a package, and would be transferred only as such to an individual with the willingness to invest in the idea as I have done for 15 years now.

Besides, I know some people who spend more per year on Amiga kitsch than I'll take for the site, but no one seems to be willing to make a reasonable offer.  

Wayne
 

Offline Argo

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Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #180 on: May 07, 2009, 06:52:40 PM »
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buzz wrote:
I guess the host decided it didn't want to support php4 anymore. I mean it is of course quite possible to support multiple php versions. php4 offical support is being dropped (or is already), so that might be one reason.


PHP 4 is going away. I've been seeing host switching over starting a couple years ago. Only the last hold out are now just upgrading to or dropping PHP4 for PHP 5. Hell, I was reading about PHP6 yesturday.
 

Offline whoosh777

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Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #181 on: May 08, 2009, 04:57:59 PM »
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Wayne wrote:
Quote

buzz wrote:
php4 offical support is being dropped (or is already), so that might be one reason.

As mentioned on page 1 of this thread, yes.  PHP4 was retired about 2 years ago.  The support cycle for it just ended (much like Microsoft does for old Windows versions).  

This means;

-- no new security patches
-- no web host worth their salt will run 4.x any longer except maybe on dedicated machines which we can't afford.


what is the reason that the current Xoops code wont run on say php 5?

php is just C, EXCEPT for maybe the php library

the non library stuff should run on any version of php

or are the problems at Xoops?


whats to stop you reimplementing the current Xoops from

the inside: eg reimplement reply.php to run with the

current Xoops, then reimplement viewtopic.php etc

eventually you will have your own reimplementation of

the current Xoops which will run on any version of php

(if you go about it sensibly)
 

  • Guest
Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #182 on: May 08, 2009, 06:01:55 PM »
Whoosh,

I'm not interested in making changes to the core code of xoops 2.3.x, REGARDLESS of possibilities, because that strands us right back where we are now.  Every single update would have to be rewritten, to work, and that's not anything I'm interested in at all, under any circumstances.

I'm not interested in making changes to the current code base because that gets us nothing in the end, except to continue this site as is, which is to say stuck.

Wayne
 

Offline whoosh777

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Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #183 on: May 08, 2009, 07:08:56 PM »
Quote

buzz wrote:
Your operating system and compiler is also pretty impressive. I printed out your website (all 50000 lines), but then my dog ate it. Can you provide it in a hardback version?


I was trying not to talk about my projects, but considering that I am right at the lattermost stages of the compiler project and virtually every other thing said relates to one or another language it is inevitable that I say things from that frame of reference.

talking about REBOL to me is like throwing a lit match at kerosene!

As both those projects are done completely from scratch you can see my perspective is that of rolling my own stuff.

the moment you use ready made things you get caught up in the dependency trap. Most of the dependency problems are pointless because if people just made everything forwards comatible then your earlier version of Xoops would run with a later version of php etc.

thankfully C and x86 are TOTALLY forwards compatible,
why cant everyone else be?

at least at the recompilation level.

offtopic from here onwards:

Ironically the Ghostscript project page shouldnt be printed out but you should navigate using the links starting at the contents table near the top. Dont even think about trying to read it from start to finish as that isnt the idea!

I continue maintaining that project for two reasons:

first I use the code myself and secondly there is a lot of interest in the project. Also I have created some really useful extensions to the project which arent in the mainstream Ghostscript.

If you are interested in the other 2 projects, email me.

The general idea of those 2 projects is to return to 1986 for the Amiga and 1978 for Unix, and create a brand new system like they did but with the hardware of today and the insights of the last 2 or 3 decades respectively.

ie instead of reimplementing, evolve.

basically return in a space ship and say nah! look and learn!

eg some fundamental changes today are that the hardware is multiprocessor and 64 bit. 64 bit memory, 64 bit registers,
64 bit drives. And that today x86 hardware is standardised and cheap. In the early days hardware was COMPLETELY UNSTANDARDISED, they even had computers which used 9-bit bytes which is why C uses octal escape codes.

when Unix was created, punched cards were cutting edge data storage, and when AmigaOS was created its floppy disks were regarded as fast and 1MB was big for a PC.

in fact Bill Gates famously said nobody would ever need more than 640K (IIRC). My god have times changed.

AmigaOS was designed to some extent around the technology of the time.

both Unix and AmigaOS are astonishing and visionary systems, both are still ahead of their time, and are COMPULSORY for anyone who wants to understand computers. (Unix in the form of Linux) Anyone who hasnt used BOTH is computer illiterate! If you have to choose between the two then choose AmigaOS as its a much richer structuring of a computer. Unix is generally structureless in some sense.

if you use both you will then realise that the Amiga shell is an evolution (towards usability) of the Unix shell.

68k itself was an evolution of x86, learning from the errors of x86. But x86 has won by globbing evolution.

Unix was created by creating a brand new language C, then coding the OS with C.

I am redoing that by creating my own brand new language and creating a brand new OS with that. and my brand new language is an evolution of C, so I am evolving at multiple levels.

my kernel however is entirely written in asm, but I will gradually migrate it to the language.

 

Offline Viking

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Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #184 on: May 10, 2009, 11:36:10 AM »
I appreciate and admire all your hard work Wayne.

As I see it, we are left with no choice really. We have to accept a change for modern and supported software. If the Amiga can't take it, well, so be it.

All I ask is that no data is lost.


About costs:
Isn't it very cheap to run a site like this? We are not that many members, and I doubt amiga.org uses alot of bandwith (compared to other forums/sites).
I belive that some forums have FREE hosting?

......
 

  • Guest
Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #185 on: May 10, 2009, 03:17:22 PM »
Quote

Viking wrote:
About costs:
Isn't it very cheap to run a site like this? We are not that many members, and I doubt amiga.org uses alot of bandwith (compared to other forums/sites).
I belive that some forums have FREE hosting?


Hosting Amiga.org is not as cheap as you might think.  With the image gallery, links, news, and of course, the forums themselves, we can run anywhere between 1.5 and 3 gigabytes of bandwidth per day depending on what's happening in the community.  When there used to be Amiga shows, we could easily run 7 to 10 gigabytes per day during the event.

Hosting for the site does, in fact, take up most of the $40/month in the Kitty.  Anything above and beyond that which is donated, goes towards supporting other sites like Amigawiki.com, the UGN, and Whyzzat (which is where a lot of the senior Amiga.org crowd hangs out).

While I fully admit there are cheaper web hosts out there than planetxoops, it's my experience that there aren't many better hosts out there.  After 5 years or so, I'm on a first name basis with them, and they've never been less than absolutely supportive of the site, whether the problem is caused by them, or something that I've actually done.

Amiga.org as far as I can recall, has had no less than 7 hosts in 15 years.  The fact that we've stayed with this host for 5 years (or more actually) speaks volumes about my level of trust in them.
 

Offline Viking

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Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #186 on: May 10, 2009, 09:37:59 PM »
About the costs; I understand.

Was there a conclusion about the next software? There will probably be complaints by people who does not understand, but they can not be allowed to stop a change when the change is inevitable.

Out of curiousity - how much hard disk space is needed to store this whole site? Are most of it used by the image gallery?


......
 

  • Guest
Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #187 on: May 10, 2009, 09:58:22 PM »
Between files and data, a bit over a gigabyte.

Wayne
 

  • Guest
Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #188 on: May 11, 2009, 03:39:46 PM »
We are no where near ready to go, but just to give you an idea of where I'm at, you can review the site at http://www.amiga.org/forums

Your user accounts should work, please let me know whether you see any glaring issues.

To be honest, the perfectionist in me doesn't really *like* it so far, so I'm thinking of going ahead and buying a ready-made theme to build a custom "Amiga.org" style on.  

Primarily, I'm considering (my current favorite starting points for building a new theme)

1 - http://www.forummonkeys.com/forums/vbulletinskins/index.php?styleid=57

2 - http://www.completevb.com/demo/index.php?styleid=42

or

http://www.forummonkeys.com/forums/vbulletinskins/index.php?styleid=69

or making a very AMIGA version of this;

http://vbskinworks.com/forum/index.php?styleid=339

If any of you graphic artists want to give it a shot at writing a theme or even just a screenshot that we can carve up, please feel free to do so and we'll vote on it.

Otherwise, while vB is up and running, I don't want to go live until we get a theme that draws the fewest complaints.

Wayne
 

Offline jj

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Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #189 on: May 11, 2009, 04:21:17 PM »
I like number 2 or 3 myself
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Offline TheGoose

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Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #190 on: May 11, 2009, 04:24:29 PM »
Yeah, I told Wayne about Drupal when I did the poll. I use it to run university web sites, intranets and was at DrupalCon 2009 in D.C.

Really need to think about more than just 'forums'  ... Drupal is more like a frame work, you add the features and functionality.

It is the best open CMS / Framework in the PHP MySQL world, easily.
G1200, A3000D, A1200 PPC AOS4.0C

I\'m on Google +
 

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Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #191 on: May 11, 2009, 04:37:43 PM »
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TheGoose wrote:
It is the best open CMS / Framework in the PHP MySQL world, easily.

No doubt, but the "I told you so" doesn't really work for me :)

Besides, as I've said, the forums in Drupal suck, even when expanded.

vBulletin itself is "just forums" but if you look at sites like soapcentral.com, they use vBulletin then build the rest of the site up around it to include news, events, galleries, etc.

There's also nothing stopping us from building up Drupal AROUND vBulletin, but the optimum thing is that the forums are actually usable.

Wayne
 

Offline Argo

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Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #192 on: May 11, 2009, 05:46:34 PM »
Wayne,
   It looks like you have a good start. For theme, I like the third one you listed. I think that has possibilities. Also, I need more sleep as my first read I thought it said you didn't want to go live til there was a there that got a few complaints.
 

  • Guest
Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #193 on: May 11, 2009, 06:03:07 PM »
Quote

Argo wrote: Also, I need more sleep as my first read I thought it said you didn't want to go live til there was a there that got a few complaints.


This is the Amiga community..  I started getting complaints when I mentioned the evil six-letter word "change".

:)

Wayne
 

  • Guest
Re: (RFD) Amiga.org's future
« Reply #194 on: May 11, 2009, 06:25:00 PM »
Thanks for the feedback guys.  As for myself, I'm still leaning towards the first one, and here's a screenshot as to why...

http://www.amiga.org/forums/images/screen-capture.jpg

It helps to have it in perspective.

Wayne