XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know

[harima_kun]

So the XBox 360 is coming out next month, what do you guys think is this a system worth investing in? I must admit I am quite interested plus I can get it from Japan for 80 quid less than the Uk

[InTheSand]

Investing is a curious word when used in conjunction with the purchase of equipment that immediately depreciates in value!

I'd personally hang on and see what happens with the XBox 360 vs the Playstation 3... I guess it depends on whether or not backwards compatibility is important, plus which system has the potential to run homebrew code / emulators, plus the set of games available at launch, game cost, etc...

I rushed in at the launch of the previous generation of consoles and bought a GameCube - which on paper at least would appear more capable than the PS2, but history has shown that I made the wrong choice in terms of the availability and cost of the games available...

So this time, I'll wait and see, and maybe make a decision once the initial hype has worn off! Besides, the ol' GameCube still plays Burnout and Burnout 2 fine - which is mainly what I use it for!

 - Ali

[koaftder]

harima_kun wrote:
So the XBox 360 is coming out next month, what do you guys think is this a system worth investing in? I must admit I am quite interested plus I can get it from Japan for 80 quid less than the Uk

Wait until your neighbor gets one... Then steal it.

[HopperJF]

Interesting, although the PS2 is more popular, the Gamecube is my favourite of the 3 current generation consoles and is much more fun IMO.

[SamuraiCrow]

I think I'll wait for the PS3 since it is rumored to be more open with an open-source operating system on the optional hard drive and a faster processor.

[MskoDestny]

SamuraiCrow wrote:
I think I'll wait for the PS3 since it is rumored to be more open with an open-source operating system on the optional hard drive and a faster processor.

The processor is theoretically faster, but it requires a greater shift in programming methodology to achieve that performance. The XBox 360 has 3 general purpose cores whereas the PS3 has one general purpose cores and seven SPEs that are largely dedicated to vector math.

I'm currently in the XBox 360 camp. By the time the PS3 comes out it will have a bigger library (assuming you don't count titles from the previous generation) and it looks like it will be more developer friendly than the PS3 (in difficulty to program, not necessarily in openness).

I like the motion sensing of the Revolution's controller, but I'm not crazy about the idea of having to attach junk to my TV for it to work. The remote control format doesn't really jive with my sensibilities either. Also Nintendo has given me little reason to believe that it won't be quite underpowered compared to the competition (they're announced 2-3x more powerful than the Gamecube isn't terribly encouraging).

Regardless, the smartest thing to do is wait until they're out and see which one has more games that you want to play. Even on the basis of graphics alone, everything is mostly speculation (to a lesser extent on the XBox360 since there's been more content shown, the leaked PGR3 video is quite impressive).

[koaftder]

I'm not willing to pay 200-300 bucks for a console and then 50-60 bucks a game for it. Thats why i usually stay one system behind. I recently got a game cube for 50 dollars, with 2 controllers and 2 games + extension cords. I can get games for like 10 bucks at k-mart. Before that i had a dream cast i bought at a thrift store for 20 bucks, and i could get games for it at like 2 dollars a piece.

The only difference between older consoles and the new ones is the level of detial in graphics. Most games suck really bad anyway, only a handful are really worth playing. I'd say theres probably on average only a dozen really good games per each generation of console.

I'll pick up an xbox 360 4 or 5 years from now.

[coldfish]

@ SamuraiCrow

Open-source and Sony dont go in the same sentence.  See the recent PSP firmware lockouts for one example.
 
Sure, there will probably be a poorly supported and extremely rare official linux port, but if PS2 is any example it will be expensive and next to useless.

Using a console to run general computer tasks is like using a motorbike to tow a trailer; possible, but ultimately it's missing the point.

[koaftder]

coldfish wrote:
@ SamuraiCrow

Open-source and Sony dont go in the same sentence.  See the recent PSP firmware lockouts for one example.
 
Sure, there will probably be a poorly supported and extremely rare official linux port, but if PS2 is any example it will be expensive and next to useless.

Using a console to run general computer tasks is like using a motorbike to tow a trailer; possible, but ultimately it's missing the point.

The lockout stuff they put into consoles is interesting, but whats the point of it? Homebrew games on the consoles are usually very sub standard, and almost nobody playes them. ( Take a look at some of the dream cast home brews). Almost nobody buys a console just for running linux/net bsd, and thoes who do usually end up buying a few games anyway, so no skin off the manufacturers back. If a company tried to make a game for a console and market it without going through the proper legal crap and contracts with nintendo/ms/sony etc, they would be sued to obilivion.

The only reasons i can think of for putting these mesaures in the devices is for region limiting and antipiracy stuff. Also probably so they get more legal leverage with the new freedom limiting laws that seem to keep getting railed through government, like the DMCA.

Do they really give a rats ass if a few geeks turn their video game hardware into useless *nix boxes?

[XDelusion]

Well one thing to consider is what type of games you like. If you like PC games, then the 360 would probably be a good go. If you are more into the "what's hot at the moment" type of title, the you are definatly a Sony guy. Otherwise if you want some long forgotten classic, paired with originality and innovation, then you may want to hold out for Nintendo.

I HIGHLY doubt that Sony or M$ machine will be anything near as fast as they say. I have a feeling these CPU's are kind of the the Celerons of PPC. The price is too low, and Apple has shown disgust in the design of the Sony CPU. Infact when Sony asked to have OSX on the Sony, Apple turned them down outright, though that may change. None the less, I'm sure Steve Jobs had reasons, and I'm willing to bet it's because the CPU isn't as full featured as the typical PPC CPU that you'd find in a Mac.
 So if Sony has cut corners on the CPU somehow to save costs, then I'm sure Microsloth is too. They are doing all labor in China, and you know they don't pay them crap, so I'm sure they'll cut any corner they can!

 The second thing to take into account is that Microsloth is known for sucking ballz. Though that's only when it comes to software and fair play. When it comes to hardware, they are right on! About all my hardware is Microsloth, that being my XBOX, Mouse, Keyboard, etc.

 Sony on the other hand is known for lying out the ass, and on top of that, they have a bad rap with v 1-8 of the PS2, as they used all the cheapest components possible, making returns, and refurbs commen place with the Sony croud. As for the lying bit, well I think we were all amazed when the PS2 first came out, had less video RAM than the Dreamcast (which took them 3 years to work around), it was hard to code for, most Dreamcast games looked better in compared to the PS2's 1st 2 gernerations (even many modern titles), it DID NOT make PS1 games look better, it was not near as fast, nor could it do near as many polys as they claimed, plus the DVD play back sux ballz!
 Of course you have the occasional XBOX that is flakey, due to them using some a few Toshiba drives in some models, but for the most part, the Samsung drives that you find in a lot of XBOX's, hold up quite well.

 Lastly there was the Gamecube, which I don't recall any false hype over, though I could be wrong. It just introduced itself as better than the PS2 (but of course) and a tad weaker than the XBOX, and delivered "once again" a ton of innovation, and great sequals to wonderful classics in a style that only Nintendo has.

 As for the next generation, don't worry about GFX unless yo have a hi-def TV. Pretty much all systems will look the same, and as with the 1st Nintendo and the Sega Master System, or the Genesis and the SNES, each system with have its strenghts, and each its weaknesses. Though personally I feel we are at that point that those weaknesses and differences will not be very apparent, with the exception of Nintedo who is doing some fun stuff with how we interact with games, thus creating a new type of gaming like the DS is doing.

Me:

I'll prolly buy all 3, though the Sony will ONLY be if OSX or a VERY user friendly Unix clone comes with the hard drive, and only if it has a STRONG homebrew community, cause really, that's where it's at, HOMEBREW!

[Legerdemain]

The lockout stuff they put into consoles is interesting, but whats the point of it? Homebrew games on the consoles are usually very sub standard, and almost nobody playes them. ( Take a look at some of the dream cast home brews).

The Dreamcast homebrew scene is rather alive still. 80% of what I currently am running on my Dreamcast is homebrew applications. This I haven't even tried yet, but it was said to be rather interesting: http://www.drill.rr.nu/ ...but anyways, that wasn't my point. My point was that the point with lockout stuff, in my world, is to prevent the following:

1. If region lockout: That people will import games from regions releasing the games before their own region, making the launch of the title in their own region not as comercially succesful as planned.

2. If cd- or dvdr lockout: What do you think killed the Dreamcast (or at least made it last so extremely shortly) besides not all too many big titles being released?

I am pretty sure that if the Gamecubes lockout had been busted earlier than it was the console wouldn't be alive by today. For some reason the companies developing games seems okay with the fictious thought that if a game should be released for the Gamecube it must be adjusted to suit children, thus the lack of "mature" titles to be found. EVen when Square returned to Nintendo they didn't bring a blockbuster title to the Gamecube, no, they played along with this "it has to be for children"-thought and brought the world the extremely crappy multiplayer Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles which no one seems to like the slightest. The console is doomed, not due to lack of power, but due to lack of prejudice. And if it hadn't been due to nobody being able to bust the lockout all too early, I think it would have been dead as a console by today.

I wonder how well the AMiGA would be doing by today if every single commercial game being played at people's homes would have been bought. Utopia, yes, but just a thought anyways.

[XDelusion]

Maybe something along the lines of the 3DO only on crack?

[Waccoon]

Buy a console for the games.  It wasn't until two years after the system was released that I found games that justified the investment into a PS2.  Also, I don't like the idea of buying a system right when it comes out.  I bought my PSX on pre-order, and it blew up within a couple of weeks due to overheating.  The replacement they gave me still has the damned choppy video problem.

I'll probably get a PS3 a year after it's released.  XBox games have never interested me, and I want to play my existing PS2 titles on an HDTV display.  Hopefully, Sony will add antialiasing support to the PS2 emulator in the PS3.  That would be AWESOME.

Actually, that's a good question.  Does anyone know if XBox 360 or PS3 runs games better than the previous systems, or if they are designed to run old software "as is"?  My guess would be the latter.  The PSXe emulator on the PC proved that you could substantially improve the quality of an old game, but the backwards compatibility built into the PS2 absolutely sucked (even the "fast" CD mode has never worked for me).

As for getting an OS to run on a console, none of these companies have ever put any serious effort into getting a decent OS for these systems.  We'll probably just see the usual sproutings of "media centers" and other silly gimicks before everybody realizes, once again, that these systems are still game machines, and the marketeers are just trying to whip up some more hype.

Can you say, "Emotion Engine"?  Pretty fancy name for an embedded MIPS.  :-)

[Legerdemain]

oes anyone know if XBox 360 or PS3 runs games better than the previous systems, or if they are designed to run old software "as is"?

The XBox 360 won't support full backwards compitability as far as I know. There are even some criterias that must be met in order to be able to play the old games (but concerning how the actual emulation will work I don't know anything about):

1. In order to run old games your XBox 360 must not be of the "light" version without the harddrive... or...

2. The games released for the old XBox must have an inbedded emulator (which in other words means that only new games that includes this emulator software will run unless you have the non "light" version of the XBox 360).

To make things even more interesting... the "light" version of the XBox 360 will not be able to run some of the XBox 360 games, since some of them will require a harddrive. How great is that, not?

It may be that the PS2 never did run old games the way it initially was told to do (with better looking graphics and less loading times), but at least it ran all the old PS1 titles (as far as I've seen) wihtout any problems.

As far as ePSXe is concerning for running PS1 titles under Windows... well, I've finally managed to make a setup which seems to run what I've tested the way it is meant to be run... but the plugin system used really sucks. Not only is one confronted with the hassle of finding which plugins to use (and which are most compatible with the games that one wants to run), after that there is a mess of options to deal with. Yet I haven't found a good way to run Final Fantasy IX, the copy protection on the original CD's are to dependent on the emulator emulating the PS1 perfectly... and furthermore I still haven't managed to get Symphony Of The Night to run flawlessly... for some reason I always get down to the option of running it not in fullscreen, or in fullscreen always besides when the actual gameplay kicks in where I suddenly get big black borders on top and bottom of the screen. But, since the rest of my games seems to work so well, I just won't bother adjusting the settings any more, I will probably just end up screwing it all up again.

Why can't emulation work as well as in Shapeshifter... or in AmiMastergear which is one hell of an emulator (besides not running one of my favourite SMS games ever, the rather cute port of Ys).

Oh well.

[orange]

I use&like PS2 very much. it has some problems playing divx (dvds are fine), but its designed for games anyway. driving simulations and platform games are really awesome on it. OTOH fps games suck without mouse and keyboard. Although you can connect USB mouse, its very low quality in games.

Xbox??? why would you want a nonupgradeable PC.. it doesn't seem to me like a console or a computer, and its M$ product anyway :angry: