News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy!

[jedi]

News from Genesi on MorphOS-News.de :

Our first week back in Europe after the New Year was an exciting one. We wanted to catch up a little before we made this post. We have plenty of information to share and we know that many of you need an update. Here goes… (Click "Read More...")

Most importantly, we cannot ship the Pegasos if we cannot make it! We met with Mai at CES and Mai confirmed they will ship the old Articias to us. Once we get them we need to mount them on the April PCB and then the mainboard. We know there is plenty of frustration out there for those of you that want the Pegasos. They will be available again soon. We will continue to sell the Pegasos with the old Articia until we get the new samples and can test them. In the meanwhile, we have been working with a replacement chip that is a bit more expensive, but it seems to work fine. In this case, we will have two suppliers for this component and will not be restricted in the future. All the other components required are in stock and ready for assembly. Just to recap:

1. The Pegasos is:

a. Upgradeable – from G3 to G4 to Dual CPUs, etc. (IBM will release 64 bit PPC in March, after the G5 (?), and as recently announced IBM and AMD are going to do R&D together, etc.). As IBM and Motorola share the IP of the PPC, we think they will be around and competitive with Intel into the future -- especially with the move toward more mobility and less CPU power consumption. See the latest IBM announcement. Of course, that means a Pegasos II, or a PegasosPlus, etc., etc.

b. Scalable - can be stacked, i.e., 1) three/four dual G4 boards in a case would give potentially +8GHz of CPU speed in a "desktop" machine at a very affordable price (this is only a good marketing pitch -- "8GHz on the desktop") or 2) later, multiple boards can be rack mounted and stacked "up to the ceiling."

c. Modifiable - it can be made smaller omitting elements to a base station for a mobile device (eclipsis or even an EyeCam). It can be turned into a Home Server that sits with the Home Entertainment Center/Theater (Psylent) or really scaling back to a simple Satellite DTV receiver (looking for a cool name, this is the project we have been contracted for -- in the end we will share the IP).

d. In the meanwhile the Pegasos becomes an increasingly stable and a viable Development Platform for the future and all the projects mentioned.

e. Finally, it offers an alternative hardware platform to various OS specific development communities, attracting innovation and creativity. It has Open Firmware (which also makes it easy for peripheral developers to develop hardware that works with the platform).

Check out http://www.osnews.com/topic.php?icon=69 and then return to the OSNews home page. This is the kind of broad market interest we need. We already have a number of LinuxPPC distros running (and Mac-on-Linux) and an agreement to port OpenBSD has been executed and we are working with Rebol already.

2. MorphOS

a. Starts on the Pegasos and grows increasingly functional

b. Runs on Macs by the end of 2003. This will be marketed as a special application for Mac that does not "run" on the host hard drive (but can). We will sell the application, the OS is just there to make it work or just sell the OS. The application could be related to a smart card with the OS in the ROM of the reader, or a CD with a cool game, etc., etc. This could also be done “as a cross-platform class toolkit, such as wxwindows, that assumes the native look of the respective target OS. Users wouldn't object to applications written with such a toolkit (they wouldn't know) and developers certainly wouldn't object to the idea of selling to multiple platforms simultaneously.” Anyone want to port wxwindows to MorphOS? Anyway, until then, MorphOS will be bundled with the Pegasos and be available at no additional cost.

c. Provides the ultimate 'connectivity' through the various efforts (mobile, satellite, desktop, server, television, etc.

Together the PEGASOS and MORPHOS are the "CORE TECHNOLOGIES" of Genesi.

3. The next stuff... tied into smart cards (Trusted Community, Copyright Protection, etc.). More on this another time…;-)

That is the basic game plan.

The STB we are discussing is quite different than what has been attempted historically. The basic version does not have an uplink. It is very inexpensive and it is basic in form and function (but as much for less, remember the C64 slogan was: “it is not how little it costs, it is how much you get”). Interactivity comes through smart cards. This is a satellite television receiver with some memory. The smart card is used to enable elements of the signal. Authorization levels depend on subscription or payment per event/movie (pre-paid or pay-as-you-go). Of course, a more advanced version could be a base station for the eclipsis. Then there is the Psylent (formally Pega-shush)...a 24/7 ISP bundled home server that does not have anything to do with the Satellite DTV STB, but EVERYTHING to do with a "state of the art" Home Entertainment Center. Everything begins and advances WITH the Core Technologies, the Pegasos running MorphOS. We can profit from the core technology by adapting it to various "configurations" which will allow us to build the Company and the Developer base.

When things are really stable, then there is the mass-market beginning with the sale of the OS/Application to Mac Users...then the hardware...etc. BUT, FOR NOW WE ARE JUST FOCUSED ON THE TECHNICALLY ORIENTED COMPUTER USER.

NOW, take all this and combine it with some of the recent ideas we have been discussing with the Phoenix Developer Consortium (www.phinixi.com). Genesi and Phoenix will initiate a VA Software/SourceForge relationship. This will make it easy for Developers who might not want to be “part” of Genesi, but still associated closely with the hardware platform. Nevertheless, the opportunity is much more than an open source/Linux Development Community. Genesi owns the IP of the hardware AND the OS. We can leverage off both Open Source and Closed Source virtues while still capturing the valuable hardware revenue. We have decided this can be shared with members of Phoenix as Distributors/Integrators of a platform that is INITIALLY oriented to TECHNICALLY oriented people anyway. The sale of Pegasos machines configured with various potential OS's seems to be a unique revenue producing opportunity and MAYBE a "new" way of "selling" the computer...like a multilevel marketing scheme...ding-dong...its not the Avon Lady! It is the Phoenix Man with your Pegasos! We could develop a whole tiered system...when you recruit ten Phoenix Distributors you become a Phoenix Flyer! OK, we will not get too carried away, but you get the idea...

We are just brain storming, but using www.genesisupport.com to "answer" the "silly" support questions, provide User Group Forums, and the latest OS/application upgrades seems like a good way to go. In the meanwhile, we will set up Phoenix members in a VA Software/SourceForge like relationship that evolves into unit sales and then maybe System Integrators/Service Providers (like the old LAN/WAN businesses). This could be a cool stroke to capture widespread interest once the publicity effort really kicks into gear...;-) We already have begun discussions with Phoenix members in New Zealand, the USA, Canada, the Czech Republic, and Japan. This grass-roots approach could hold some valuable benefits for a broader community. Please share you thoughts with us.

Lastly, thanks to the Genesi Team who made CES a great experience for us. Have a look at some of the CES photos on the GenesiSupport pages. We have recently brought a number of very talented people into Genesi. They all deserve recognition and they will be getting it soon.

Best regards,

R&B

[Elektro]

57 channels and nothing on...

[Alkemyst]

LOL

[Bodie]

:lol:

[Loki1]

Sounds alot like the crap that Amiga Inc was spewing a few years ago. :-D

I doubt that either will ever see the light of day!

Pipe Dreams and more pipe dreams!

Loki  :-D

[Kent]

The question that still sits on my mind is the version of the Java Runtime Environment as well as the availability of a full JDK?  I've emailed bbrv but no answer after a week.  Sigh.

:pint:

[Frodon]

Hello,

Sounds alot like the crap that Amiga Inc was spewing a few years ago.

I doubt that either will ever see the light of day!

At least the Pegasos and MorphOS exist. It's giving to Genesi a bit of credibility IMO. We'll see if they stay on the right track (i.e: keeping releasing the products they announce) in the future.

Btw all companies in the world make announcements. But not all release them for real. For now Genesi have done what they promised.

That's why for now, personally I'm confident

Regards

[samface]

At least the Pegasos and MorphOS exist.

As in comparison with what? The Pegasos exist and is available for purchase, just like the AmigaOne. MorphOS has still not reached the point of beeing a completed and offically released product, just like the AmigaOS4. What are you refering to by "atleast it exist"? How dare you hinting at something like this *again*after making such a fool out of yourself on ANN a while back, Frodon? Don't tell me you have more "insider information" from the AmigaOS4 developer team...

I'm sorry that I have to bring such mudslinging into the game but you're simply not giving me any choice when you keep saying things like this.

[Frodon]

Hello Samface,

As in comparison with what? The Pegasos exist and is available for purchase, just like the AmigaOne. MorphOS has still not reached the point of beeing a completed and offically released product, just like the AmigaOS4. What are you refering to by "atleast it exist"?

In comparaison to nothing! Why do you always want to compare!
By "at least it exist" I answered to the sentence of Loki when he said that he doubt that the announcements made by Genesi here will see the light of the day. So I  meant that at least the Pegasos is available for purchase and is already delivered with MorphOS (ok not the final commercial release, but at least owners of the Pegasos can already run it out of the box). So at least these first products of Genesi have seen the light of the day.

And so by exist I mean you can see, try, use and buy it already (for MorphOS it comes with the Pegasos only for now).

I'm sorry that I have to bring such mudslinging into the game but you're simply not giving me any choice when you keep saying things like this.

Sorry but you had the choice to just read the sentence as it is without interpreting that i compared to something.
When I say: Samface exist. Or Frodon exist. Did that must mean that I compare to something? No! If I wanted to compare to something than I'd have had "on the contrary of ".
So don't make me say what I didn't say. Thank you.

Regards

[bbrv]

Sorry Kent, your email was lost in email nirvana.  We knew someone had sent us a question about this, but between our two computers we can no longer find it, now your post...

Allan Havemose worked on a basic version of the JVM until September of last year.  His wife had a baby last Spring and she did not feel comfortable with Allan routinely traveling to Europe.  He stopped working on the project and took a new job where he now lives in California (he moved out of the Valley).

In the meanwhile, Richard Lipes from SGI and later Gateway took over, but before he could continue he needed a working Pegasos. Allan had given his Pegasos to Richard, but it still had all the Betatester bugs.  When Gerald was with Mai in October, Gerald and Richard met.  Richard received a good overview, but could still not progress.

As you may know, Richard joined us at CES.  Finally, Richard has a working Pegasos and has begun porting a Linux version to the machine first.

That is the status.  Interested in helping?

Best regards,

R&B
 :-)

[bbrv]

Hi Elektro, “57 channels and nothing on…” as you probably know comes from a song by Bruce Springsteen.  The song was released around ten years ago.  The comment referred to the American cable industry and the growing number of channels cable systems could deliver into the home.  There were more channels, but no “decent” programs.  

Cable changed the nature of television in the US (and other places too), but there were/are still many places that receive only three or four good UHF and VHF signals and “cable” has to physically reach its destination to provide a signal.  Satellites are different.  Today, a satellite television provider can easily provide 200+ channels.  Echostar for example can reach all the US from four satellites and 91 frequencies.  The same goes for various providers in Europe and the Asian/Pacific region.  

The whole issue here is really “programming” or in computer-speak, “software.”  We have computers, televisions and telephones to do something with them.  Over the years, our habits have not changed, we just wanted more selection or at least we just wanted to do just what we wanted when we want do it.  The telephone has evolved in the home from a “handset” attached by cord to a base station, to a “portable” telephone we can walk around the house with, to a mobile telephone, etc.  There are countries in Europe with more mobile telephones than fixed telephones.  Things changed, but people keep talking to each other.  It is just getting increasingly convenient.  Have the conversations improved?…;-)  Would you consider a SMS message a “program?”  SMS messages represented more than 25% of the total revenue of Wireless Operators in Europe in 2001!  Sounds like something!  Communication between two people is most basic form of “programming.”

The Internet is full of “nothing on” too.  We need search engines to find what we want, because there is vastly more to surf than surfers.  And, the Internet sea expands daily.  You would be surprised to see some of the research we have seen about how people “change channels” on the Internet – it often is strikingly familiar to multi-channel television usage.  

The bottom line is the Pegasos as a hardware platform (remember that is where the money is initially) needs “programs” to get people interested in using it -- the more interesting and different things that will work on the Pegasos, the better.  More programs not classified as “nothing” may create demand from more buyers.  If the cost of implementing those programs is less than the profit generated from the demand, we have a business.  

It seems to us that the Pegasos can offer something interesting and unique to the market, but it takes two phases.  First, we need to broaden the options of what is possible technically and then when things are ready re-focus on specific, but much larger markets.  That is why we like the Phoenix association – it is an organization of like-minded technically smart people who can help us do that.  For example, (in step one) bringing Pegasos/MorphOS to the point were it can flawlessly operate as an Internet linked computer or a television receiver/DVD/whatever player at "zap" of the remote and then (step two) promoting it to the high home entertainment center market.  The television is what is always is, maybe bigger with better sound, but still a device to watch (did you ever stare into a campfire? – that was the first television!).  In the meanwhile, the keyboard and the remote become more closely related and Google starts to feel like a program guide.  You see, nothing new, just the same stuff better, more easily, etc.  It is not “crap” Loki1, it is a strategic direction.  The real question is can we pull it off.  

Or, how about a handheld video telephone for that basic “programming” niche…;-)

So far, a component supplier has seriously delayed are plans.  The facts and difficulties are well known.  Nevertheless, we have continued to march to the objective we have set for ourselves and the Pegasos is being used by people who did buy it and do like it.  For example, a testimonial was recently posted at GFX-Base and we do receive plenty of complements directly from users via email.  The Pegasos and MorphOS are being used and are being improved.  We expect this process to continue.  By broadening the opportunity to other development communities increases the potential of the platform, the OS and the possible applications too, as something has to be “on” if we are going to be successful.  Simultaneously, we have been trying to get the word out.  We have attended shows all over Europe and the biggest one in the USA.  We have show plans for the Spring/Summer and User Groups are starting to pop up everywhere.  We will gladly support demos as we did a couple of weeks ago in Finland – just ask!

It is time for the competitive and divisive nature of this community to dissipate.  Whatever was before has past.  Genesi has no competition.  There are others who are working on similar projects, good luck to them.  The only competition we have is with ourselves to do our best to make Genesi successful.  It is time to clean things up around here – forget the petty arguments.  There are lots of new people starting to stop by for a closer look and the “programming” here needs to look a little better.  Thanks.

Sincerely,
R&B
 :-)

[bbrv]

The same thing was posted twice, so we just edited it to this.  Sorry, Wayne not sure why that happened.  In the meanwhile, this discussion is moving along faster at ANN (same title).  

We think it does have something to do with the way the News Items are on the page.  But, as we said somewhere else here earlier, the Forums here are very useful -- good stuff stays active and fresh, bad stuff disappears quickly.

Best regards,
R&B :-)

[asian1]

>"Scalable - can be stacked, i.e., 1) three/four dual G4 boards in a case would give potentially +8GHz of CPU speed in a "desktop" machine at a very affordable price (this is only a good marketing pitch -- "8GHz on the desktop") or 2) later, multiple boards can be rack mounted and stacked "up to the ceiling."
====================================

* What about the thermal / heat problem, cooling, power supply, reliability etc?

* How to connect a Pegasos board to others?

* Is there any support from MorphOS / Linux PowerPC?

* Is it possible to do similar thing with A1 + AmigaOS 4?

* Is it possible to boot Pegasos board without any PCI video card?

Thank's

[Coder]

Correct me if I wrong, but the idea is really to get MOS running on a lot of devices, rigth? On the handheld, STB, phones etc.

Coder

[samface]

In comparaison to nothing! Why do you always want to compare!

"Atleast" suggests that it would be something unique in comparison with the alternatives. You said "Atleast it exists" as in "the alternatives doesn't". You said it as an argument for why it would be better than the alternatives. Neither you or I are stupid, you know what you meant and I know what you meant, regardless of your word twisting games. End of story.